If EQ3 Hypothetically were in development, what would you suggest?

[Solus]

Hey all. I have a strong inclination that EQ3 is being developed. That being said, give your suggestions. I will personally deliver them to DarkPaw HQ, I live in San Diego 30 minutes away.

My thoughts:

Adventure System:

There is grinding, dungeon crawling, and raids in EQ. What about a new system? What if going outside to travel for quest, there was a RNG random chance for encounters. You could add this as an alternative, which I call adventuring. Wouldn't it make a quest more fun to have several organic experiences like orcs attacking or a dragon coming down to stop you? You could even have RNG zones, like a lost city of gold in a forgotten swamp that appears really rarely and makes you rich. You get the idea. You can turn it off or on depending on how you feel, with RNG bosses, zones, quests etc appearing as you travel.

Art Style:

Why not just copy the art style from the EQ box cover? That's what we all envision as we play no? Why not just render an oil painted EQ for the models etc. Realistic high fantasy that Keith Parkinson (he made the cover) would approve of, done in an oil painted style. This hasn't been done before and would looks freaking awesome.

Post your ideas, will compile them and send them off :)

[Trexller]

Basically, a game like cyberpunk 2077 as an EverQuest MMORPG, and a borderlands style loot system.

Open world rpg system, expand from 14 classes to maybe 20? More hybrids, new types of melee/casters. Perhaps even customizable classes. character appearance and ability customization, (so that not every cleric has the same spell set as every other cleric etc)

Borderlands style loot system: item drop stats are RNG generated with small chances for specialty (epic, legendary) item drops.

Choice based quests. The quest, and the rewards will change depending on how you do the quest. Adding in some randomization mechanics so that the quest will rarely provide the exact same reward.

These things will prevent the construction of a "wiki" thusly, the player will have to play the game in order to learn it, and 20 years later, will still be unsure of how things are going to go.

Mobs will have more variance in their difficulty. example, one froglok zol knight would be easy, the next, same level froglok zol knight will fuck you up due to some sort of lore or other reason we can pull out of our ass just to make things unpredictable.

Zones (various areas, its an open world) should change, as a busy city changes from day to day. Merchants come and go, sometimes you will have to go to another place to find that merchant. Buildings are destroyed and constructed, the player would have to investigate to find out what the new building is for, chances are the new inhabitants will be unwelcoming to that player. Crime mechanics would be cool. You're standing at freeport gate and then some npc comes alot and mugs you, or kills you and takes stuff. Maybe your bank gets robbed from time to time, or you have to work in-game to prevent being the victim of a crime.

Bosses split into multiple categories, even for the same boss, as well as unpredictable loot tables.

Casual bosses would be relatively easy, with mid to higher tier RNG loots. mostly just Good ol tank and spanks.

Hardcore bosses would be absolutely unpredictable, different every time they spawn, and nearly impossible to kill without a perfectly disciplined kill force, dropping godly tier loots

Basically this game would be impossible to memorize, min-max or poopsock. There are ENDLESS things to do in game, but you will never, ever know exactly how it turns out.

Where do i send the bill for my consultation services?

[Trexller]

OP... is it possible that you work for darkpaw and you have come to P99 to crowdsource information, trying to understand what made EQ so good in the first place?

since nobody at sony, deybreak, darkpaw etc understands it or even remembers, and cannot find original game code?

Being the most successful emulator server (by a wide margain) it would be smart for the "hypothetical" developer of EQ3 to ask people like us how to make a good MMO.

[Solus]

OP... is it possible that you work for darkpaw and you have come to P99 to crowdsource information, trying to understand what made EQ so good in the first place?

since nobody at sony, deybreak, darkpaw etc understands it or even remembers, and cannot find original game code?

Being the most successful emulator server (by a wide margain) it would be smart for the "hypothetical" developer of EQ3 to ask people like us how to make a good MMO.

I can't tell you the complete truth, but I will confirm I am NOT a dev or even employed by DarkPaw, but I am a huge fan and someone in the know told me. :D:D

[Trexller]

haha your "friend" (darkpaw devs) seriously got you to crowdsource information from the best EQ experts on the internet.

this just happened.

[Mblake81]

1. What kind of UI and player perspective are they going for, modern or classic?

-FPS standard with a world view built for that and not over-the-shoulder. You can manipulate the camera like in EQ, there are different angles like classic.

-Elder Scrolls game all sleek and minimal or something more CRPG with a UI to fit like classic EQ had.

2. What kind of music? MIDI 2.0 just released on the market, are they going to do another midi score or something more modern.

3. What kind of game world. Large and open like classic EQ or some instanced solo adventure labeled as MMORPG?

4. What kind of game play. Classic like EQ or some High Speed DAOC-like style.

5. What kind of game engine. Build your own like classic EQ had or use a pre-made?

6. What kind of art style. When I see screen shots of the new game will I instantly know "That is EQ" or will I get it confused with every other RPG type game on the market?

7. What kind of price. Is this a base purchase and a month fee like classic or is this a Free To Play/ Freemium / Pay-To-Win type of setup made to appeal to younger players? (I will take you serious or not depending on this)

8. What kind of market. Will this product be aimed a young or 30-something players? (I am looking for that experience once again)

Edit: People hope that Pantheon will be the next EQ because of the Brad connection, when I watch streams of it all I see is DAOC with WoW & EQ influences. When I watch a stream of your game will I think that?

*If your game has a mini map, a quest journal or marker, fast travel that doesn't involve a Wizard or Druid.. then I have to ask what you are trying to do before you start.

*Location of developer team. USA or somewhere else?

----------------------

I have more questions than suggestions. But seeing things like Cyberpunk, no offense it's your opinion, but things like that already exist and will be multiplatform. They tried minecraft and some Lion-O parkour game before.. please stop. I am looking for a computer crpg elf world simulator that is mmo, that doesn't look like a cartoonish Blizzard shooter or have survival-building-crafting mechanics.

[Solus]

1. What kind of UI and player perspective are they going for, modern or classic?

-FPS standard with a world view built for that and not over-the-shoulder. You can manipulate the camera like in EQ, there are different angles like classic.

-Elder Scrolls game all sleek and minimal or something more CRPG with a UI to fit like classic EQ had.

2. What kind of music? MIDI 2.0 just released on the market, are they going to do another midi score or something more modern.

3. What kind of game world. Large and open like classic EQ or some instanced solo adventure labeled as MMORPG?

4. What kind of game play. Classic like EQ or some High Speed DAOC-like style.

5. What kind of game engine. Build your own like classic EQ had or use a pre-made?

6. What kind of art style. When I see screen shots of the new game will I instantly know "That is EQ" or will I get it confused with every other RPG type game on the market?

7. What kind of price. Is this a base purchase and a month fee like classic or is this a Free To Play/ Freemium / Pay-To-Win type of setup made to appeal to younger players? (I will take you serious or not depending on this)

8. What kind of market. Will this product be aimed a young or 30-something players? (I am looking for that experience once again)

Edit: People hope that Pantheon will be the next EQ because of the Brad connection, when I watch streams of it all I see is DAOC with WoW & EQ influences. When I watch a stream of your game will I think that?

*If your game has a mini map, a quest journal or marker, fast travel that doesn't involve a Wizard or Druid.. then I have to ask what you are trying to do before you start.

*Location of developer team. USA or somewhere else?

----------------------

I have more questions than suggestions. But seeing things like Cyberpunk, no offense it's your opinion, but things like that already exist and will be multiplatform. They tried minecraft and some Lion-O parkour game before.. please stop. I am looking for a computer crpg elf world simulator that is mmo, that doesn't look like a cartoonish Blizzard shooter or have survival-building-crafting mechanics.

No idea on any of that. All I know is the game is confirmed in development from someone in the know. This is not a joke and I wanted to get feedback and use my San Diego proximity to get info to the devs so we can get them early to do good things.

[Mblake81]

No idea on any of that. All I know is the game is confirmed in development from someone in the know. This is not a joke and I wanted to get feedback and use my San Diego proximity to get info to the devs so we can get them early to do good things.

Ah, also would like to know if the game is setup for KB&M or is this a multiplat controller deal. That would be an absolute deal breaker for me.

[Trexller]

But seeing things like Cyberpunk, no offense it's your opinion

only in the sense that the game should be open world, highly dynamic and vastly immersive.

could be any sort of open world game. and i had just watched the 2077 trailer.

but yeah if it feels like a game we already know, thats not good.

[Mblake81]

but yeah if it feels like a game we already know, thats not good.

I am looking for classic EQ.

[Baler]

All the good stuff they told us we'd get from everquest next. Like dynamic spawns that change depending on how players kill npcs. Player made content.

[Trexller]

I am looking for classic EQ.

You can't have it though, Pandora's Box is open, you already played and memorized the entire game. You have an entire encyclopedia of EQ information on the wiki.

The "classic" experience we all pine for is the lack of knowledge about the game. The original magic of everquest was exploration and learning.

You cannot have a classic experience when you know what mobs to kill at what level and what mobs drop what gear, how to best min/max your class etc.

a "classic" everquest experience will never occur again, ever.

What we have to do is make another game, one that we cannot predict, log, record, memorize etc.

[Mblake81]

All the good stuff they told us we'd get from everquest next. Like dynamic spawns that change depending on how players kill npcs. Player made content.

I didn't recognize the combat in EQ Next until I seen console games like Spiderman. Had the lion bouncing and around and attacking large groups of mobs.

Are we doing EQ or something else?

[Trexller]

Its EQ3.

This thread could change or define the rest of our lives.

[Mblake81]

Many of us where hoping EQ2 was going to be what I was talking about. Classic EQ, updated graphics, restarted.

I like this game world. I want more of the classic experience that modern tech could provide and not a console focused job with a multiplatform design.

[feniin]

I can have what I can manage to work. I am looking for classic EQ world with updated graphics. I would be open to making the world connect better like Jibartik was working on. Expand the old world for the launch. More dungeons and adventure area that are classic. Of course there will be some changes to items and lessons learned.

All I am looking for is a true update to the game I love with the chance for a better future post velious.

I want to see a true PC game engine for it and not Unreal or Unity. I never did find out what the original engine was called.

I like this. I want more of this.

https://www.mmorpg.com/general-articles/the-making-of-a-classic-2000093084

Can't find a name for the engine but it sounds like they just sorta cobbled one together from Tanarus and other stuff they had laying around.

[Mblake81]

https://www.mmorpg.com/general-articles/the-making-of-a-classic-2000093084

Can't find a name for the engine but it sounds like they just sorta cobbled one together from Tanarus and other stuff they had laying around.

Dude that's awesome, thank you.

Due to the scale and ambition of EverQuest, Internet connection had been a long-term issue.
When the project was started, the team had inherited code from Tanarus (Smedley's online tank shooter) (https://archive.org/details/TAN93)
but it needed to be adapted from the use of just hundreds simultaneously, to thousands.

https://i.imgur.com/D61pojB.jpg

[Gwaihir]

BIG BAD BOSSES!!!!!

*They hunt YOU!"

[Ravager]

No boxing or at the very least, build into the game rewards to players who don't box. Having every player you encounter be an actual player at the keyboard is what made the original as well as this server fun. Having to group up with other people to accomplish things is what makes it fun.

[Izmael]

- Make boxing, warping and generally cheating IMPRACTICAL

- I strongly doubt Borderland-type loot (RNG-generated items) is a good thing. Nobody knows any Borderland item - they are meaningless bunch of stats that barely make sense. Everyone knows what a Ragebringer, a Crown of Rile or a Weighted Axe are.

- I doubt that randomizing a lot of stuff is a good thing - the predictability of EQ might actually be part of what we like about it. Some randomization could be added though. Not allowing a "wiki" to be constructed may or may not be a good thing. Periodically adding new content (that doesn't make previous content obsolete like EQ live did), would probably be a good compromise.

- Better Mob AI would certainly be good.

- More zone dynamism - good

- More classes/hybrids - good. We don't have it here as we're sticking to "classic" but how cool would it be to have a war/enc hybrid? Or rog/shaman? Or completely new classes with new abilities... that would have to be invented.

- Design with PvE AND PvP in mind. PvP adds an extra dimension that would be a shame to pass on.

- Design defensively with cheaters in mind - we now have 20 more years of anti-cheat experience.

- Design with mudflation as one of the major challenges in mind.

- Keep what we like about EQ:
o legacy items
o clickies
o nodrop / lore / norent mechanism
o sandbox NPC's - no rail-guided crap
o zoning
o aggro as we know it
o interdependance off classes
o higher risk / higher reward
o can solo or group but a lot of attractive stuff can't be soloed
o ...add to the list...

[Mblake81]

What would a classic EQ character look like with 2020+ computer graphics. (https://wiki.project1999.com/Fan_Art_and_Creative_Works#toddfx_3d_renderings)

edit: @Izmael solid list.

[Evia]

You can't have it though, Pandora's Box is open, you already played and memorized the entire game. You have an entire encyclopedia of EQ information on the wiki.

The "classic" experience we all pine for is the lack of knowledge about the game. The original magic of everquest was exploration and learning.

You cannot have a classic experience when you know what mobs to kill at what level and what mobs drop what gear, how to best min/max your class etc.

a "classic" everquest experience will never occur again, ever.

What we have to do is make another game, one that we cannot predict, log, record, memorize etc.

Side note off topic, this is why I suggest doing p99 "mixed up" to get that feeling. Make all items drop off different mobs and change faction so the world becomes a mystery again.

[Evia]

As for suggestions to eq3 developers, don’t reinvent the wheel. Remake Everquest with better graphics and more fluid combat but keep the heart intact. Don’t change corpse runs or the tedium as the tedium is part of the appeal.

[BiG SiP]

i always liked the idea of no interface until it had to be brought up/used
like in Sword Art Online

[BarnabusCollins]

No Brad = No EQ

[Topgunben]

I like the combat system of mount and blade and would like to see that implemented into a game like EQ.

Items should have stats that help, but shouldn’t be game breakingly good. IE someone that has moderate gear should be able to somewhat compete with someone that has BIS gear.

Classes need to be ultra unique, and players should be almost forced to rely on each other. Even more so than classic EQ.

[Rainea]

The reason the game codes were not given is because altho p99 is backed by Daybreak in usage , the original codes can NOT be given to a private emulated server being they are company owned. As for the EQ 3, yes its being worked in and in progress. That's factual from Darkpaw themselves. We all love EQ, that's a fact ,or we wouldn't be here on p99 to try to capture the old days of 1999. But when, not IF Everquest 3 comes out it will be the best day. Until then let's have fun in p99.

[douglas1999]

Keeshar is gonna rough and tumble on there

[Solus]

The reason the game codes were not given is because altho p99 is backed by Daybreak in usage , the original codes can NOT be given to a private emulated server being they are company owned. As for the EQ 3, yes its being worked in and in progress. That's factual from Darkpaw themselves. We all love EQ, that's a fact ,or we wouldn't be here on p99 to try to capture the old days of 1999. But when, not IF Everquest 3 comes out it will be the best day. Until then let's have fun in p99.

This is my source.

[Rainea]

Smiles

[Trexller]

You guys are idiots

maybe its not darkpaw, maybe it is, but i can guarantee you that some developer somewhere, is gonna see this thread.

You guys are idiots

Now, since you went there you earned this:

https://i.imgur.com/rF4WL6w.jpg

[Vexenu]

If you're really going to make EverQuest 3, it's important to actually make EverQuest 3. In other words, stay true to the formula. Don't try to make a generic, WoW-inspired MMO. Don't try to make some console-playable MMO. Don't try to make some garbage with action combat and interchangeable classes. If you want to make EQ3, then commit to it, knowing that the game itself will have relatively niche appeal and will not be the next WoW or Fortnite blockbuster game. If you can't at least commit to that from the outset, nothing else is going to matter because whatever you end up with may be called "EverQuest 3" but will in no way contain the spirit of EverQuest.

That being said, what I would consider some of the core elements necessary to preserve the feel of EverQuest:


Distinct classes with very different roles and abilities
A clean, classic art style
Crisp, minimalist, non-bloated UI
Slow-paced, relatively simple combat with long time-to-kill (NOT a lot of button mashing/skill rotations like in most other games)
A heavy emphasis on grouping and relying on other players to accomplish things in-game
Gameplay that revolves around acquiring rare and powerful items that gradually enhance your character's power
A world that feels large and dangerous (limited means of traveling long distances and meaningful death penalties, including XP loss and corpse retrieval)
Adherence to a mostly high fantasy setting (i.e. no Luclin sci-fi elements)
Small population servers where reputation matters
Character progression that relies mostly on grinding XP by killing mobs, not doing quest chains (whether we say we like it or not, that's EQ)


Here are some ideas for EQ3:


Some kind of system that involves characters aging and dying and passing on some of their gear/skills to their "heirs" (i.e. your alts). Sort of re-imagining the game away from playing individual characters and toward playing a lineage of different adventurers. This would solve a lot of the problems with the high-end stagnation at the endgame as well as item mudflation. So rather than spending 5 years pimping out Blort the Ogre Warrior you might have a few generations of Blorts, with the final Blort wielding legacy gear and items inherited from his ancestors.
A greater emphasis on specialized abilities (both combat and non-combat), and the choice to customize your character through them. These could be similar to AAs but chosen during the leveling process. For example, certain dungeons could have climbable walls, but only for characters who chose to train their climbing ability. And climbing might require fewer points for Monks and Rogues to learn, but more for Mages. Or maybe you want to specialize your Warrior in the use of shields and warhammers. Or you want a Wizard who runs faster than normal and who regenerates mana more quickly (which sounds great, but what if those abilities meant you forfeited other abilities that gave you larger mana pool or a regenerating ward?). This would allow for distinct class roles but give greater customization and specialization options within classes.
An endgame that shifts away from "raids" and toward "campaigns", which would basically be giant guild-scale quests that would take months to complete, and which would involve all facets of the game, not just killing a few high-end raid mobs. These campaigns could involve direct and indirect competition between guilds and between servers, depending on the type. There is great potential here especially when integrating the sort of "generational" characters in my first bullet point.

[Izmael]

Another important thing - EQ needs drama.
Therefore,
- there must be no instancing
- KS should be a thing
- training should be possible
- death should be just as unforgiving as on P99

[Mblake81]

If you want to make EQ3, then commit to it, knowing that the game itself will have relatively niche appeal and will not be the next WoW or Fortnite blockbuster game.

PC games have always been niche, EQ was celebrated for breaking 100k subs. 200+ million people play COD mobile today.

Think about that though, this has always been the case. But even with a small crowd we still funded the best video cards, sound hardware, monitors etc. Sometimes I do wonder how a game like original EQ was even made when you consider the attitudes of everyone today.

To be honest I don't need the most cutting edge graphics, it would be nice but I realize that requires big company $$$ these days. I would settle for an update to the classic visual and sound, the game launches kunark and velious and that will be considered the new "original world". The next expansions do something different and stay classic. Suggestions about mudflation is great, be nice to have a 10 expansion game plan laid out that makes cohesive sense. The span of time also allows for wikis to be updated with new maps and information, because that will be done. We don't do Geocities anymore.

*Edit: Despite the min/maxer attitudes found in MMORPG's, I wouldn't worry about rolling out an expansion every 6 mo - 1 year. P99 proves every 2 years would be fine. The hardcore will finish and open a window for the rest. Come back when the new Xpan launches.

As far as the artwork, RIP Keith Parkinson (https://www.project1999.com/forums/album.php?albumid=300&pictureid=1352). There are still a good many classic D&D artist alive. I judge EQ by Keith.

Another important thing - EQ needs drama.
Therefore,
- there must be no instancing
- KS should be a thing
- training should be possible
- death should be just as unforgiving as on P99

[Baler]

No phasing/instancing

[Topgunben]

in chimes another idiot to post what he thinks, probably a democrat at that

No one likes you.

[douglas1999]

https://i.imgur.com/3Gr0SC3.jpg

[Jibartik]

Yeah I agree with comit to it.

Make a game that most people would assume would make no money, because you gave zero eff's about holding their hand. Make lines and impossible camps that suck because of permacampers and make casuals feel like they have no hope at ever having fun with this game and make all the quests super painful and convoluted and insane and long and boring and un-rewarding, and dont try to fix it, just try to achieve that.

Because nobody has the nuts to do that, and if they dont, they cant make an ever quest so no reason to try.

[Tunabros]

EQ1 but with better graphics

[BiG SiP]

WHAT IF THEY TURNED IT INTO AN ANIME

[Topgunben]

WHAT IF THEY TURNED IT INTO AN ANIME

You sick bastard. I hope you get banned for this.

[douglas1999]

Is pantheon still a thing?

[Tunabros]

WHAT IF THEY TURNED IT INTO AN ANIME

https://i.imgur.com/AvZKi4M.png

[Nuggie]

Is pantheon still a thing?

No, but yes. They are chugging along at the same pace.

EQ1 but with better graphics

This is really what I want. The diversity and depth that EQ1 brought with updated graphics. There is a project working on this. It is a 1-man show and likely going no where(I would very much love to be proved wrong).

[Bardp1999]

WoW without instancing and EQ grind/difficulty

[Mblake81]

Yeah I agree with comit to it.

Make a game that most people would assume would make no money, because you gave zero eff's about holding their hand. Make lines and impossible camps that suck because of permacampers and make casuals feel like they have no hope at ever having fun with this game and make all the quests super painful and convoluted and insane and long and boring and un-rewarding, and dont try to fix it, just try to achieve that.

Because nobody has the nuts to do that, and if they dont, they cant make an ever quest so no reason to try.

The cut of this mans jib.

[douglas1999]

It would be cool to have a seamless world as opposed to discreet zones, or at least an engine with no clip plane so you can see all the way accross a full zone, breath of the wild style. Imagine running out of the dreadlands ice tunnel and being able to see all the way to karnor's

[douglas1999]

Yeah never got to play vanguard but people seem to remember it fondly

[Mblake81]

It would be cool to have a seamless world as opposed to discreet zones, or at least an engine with no clip plane so you can see all the way accross a full zone, breath of the wild style. Imagine running out of the dreadlands ice tunnel and being able to see all the way to karnor's

DAoC, Shadowbane and Anarchy Online has that. It is not EQ. The reason being is monsters chase you in EQ until you kill them, they kill you, you zone/gate. When you introduce an open world they can only chase you for so far before they run back to their spawn.

You would have people pulling level 60 raid zone dragons to the noobie area to kill the new players. While hilarious and I would enjoy doing that, it isn't EQ.

Yeah never got to play vanguard but people seem to remember it fondly

Vanguard was a let down. I can't tell you a single item, town or dungeon in that game from memory.

[Tunabros]

Vanguard was a let down. I can't tell you a single item, town or dungeon in that game from memory.

I feel like a lot of modern mmos are like that now I think about it

I can't even remember some of the class's NAMES etc

[GardylooGubbins]

To add my two cents into the mix:

I don't mind some quality of life improvements (i.e. a quest journal or some option to where writing things down wasn't as necessary as in original EQ) but I do agree that part of the appeal of the game was not having maps, quest markers, etc. The idea that this was a real world that I had to explore to understand was part of what made the experience so memorable.

That said, this could be an area where new mechanics could be added. Say, a "cartographer" skill that could be trained to allow players to make maps of zones for personal use or to sell to other players.

Diverse classes/races that must depend on one another to succeed is a must. EQ is a group/guild based experience at its core and this should never change. I like the idea of variable builds of each class, but we shouldn't ever have a "do-it-all" class that can solo most of the content.

I would avoid any sort of "Auction House" style economy. Forcing players to interact in order to sell their items was a part of the fun, and allowed for haggling and trading.

I also agree with others that instancing is a bad idea. But perhaps think about a way to reward/incentivize players sharing camps and loot.

Absolutely no microtransactions. Ever.

I would like to see crafting skills take on more importance. Maybe even as a form of alternative advancement. Perhaps blacksmithing or jewelry making could become viable leveling options with greater rewards for players willing to dedicate a character to non-combat roles. This could also create greater interdependency between players, with guilds needing not just raiding characters, but crafters and such as well. It could be an interesting challenge for groups to escort crafters safely through dungeons to get their materials and so on.

Difficulty and danger are a must as well. EQ was fun because it was challenging, especially to new characters. We should still have to eat, drink, recover from fights, and sneak our way through higher level zones to get anywhere. I also agree that there shouldn't be any fast travel outside of certain spells. Again, anything that fosters players depending on one another is a plus.

If zones remain a thing, then they shouldn't be purely level based. I like that there are things for people to do in Zones like EC regardless of their level. Keep things like wandering guards, griffons, high level camps, etc.

Alignment/reputation/religion must matter. A dark elf necromancer should not be able to wander into Qeynos without difficulty.

I think player created content is a great idea as well. Perhaps this could be another way to work in a heavier crafting skill focus. Imagine guild halls made and outfitted by the guild's craftsmen.

I know people have said to keep questing minimal in regards to exp rewards, so that the grindy nature of original EQ isn't changed. But, I do think that there are some ways to make questing a big part of the game. I would eliminate all "fetch me 3 rat whiskers" style quests for low-level characters in favor of more quests like the mail delivery quest that encourages players to experience the game world. More Quests like "Stein of Moggok" and the epics are what I would like to see. Long, complicated, and difficult to achieve without series effort and cooperation, but with great rewards. Quests should feel like QUESTS, an adventure you embark upon rather than a list of tasks you want to cross off over the course of an evening.

I could probably think of more, but that's all I've got for now.

[Danth]

yea we had that with vanguard we called it chunking, sorry you missed it, gorgeous game that needed more $ and development

Vanguard is about the only failed MMOG that I kind of feel bad about. There was a very good game in there but it never had a fair chance. I have never in more than 25 years of online gaming seen a game where every last system was similarly broken and malfunctioning. Nothing worked right and eventually it got old zoning and finding myself 200 feet in the air (just to drop to my doom) or having heals that would randomly stop working or chain-aggro of entire dungeons for no apparent reason or a billion memory leaks and so on. No problem, specifically, was by itself a game killer like sb.exe was, but absolutely everything in Vanguard was glitchy and it was the gaming equivalent of death by a thousand cuts.

As for an EQ3: The studio which owns it (by whatever name) has not produced anything I've wanted to purchase in more than fifteen years. They haven't even come close, haven't even displayed any ability to create anything I find interesting. It seems unlikely they're about to start now. Simply slapping the EQ brand on some random game is not going to draw my interest.

Danth

[Nuggie]

If you listen to no one else in this thread, listen to ravager.

[imperiouskitten]

all of thestra was gorgeous

the desert was kind of a shithole

kojan was pretty cool

the level 20 epic quest in the dungeon was amazing

the first red weapons in pantheon were amazing as well

it was brand new, it needed money and better management

great taste, this was my favorite content in the game as well. especially the last boss whom you could bug and kill infinite number of times.

The peeps on my server who found the quest wouldn't tell anyone specifics, but they told us "it's in kojan" and me and my bros went and found it. lot of late nights whispering sweet nothings in duos and trios in ventrilo with my school friends.

Also a male-female meth head couple in their 40s tried to pick me up to come live with them (16yo twink), and so did a cultlike guild which started a 2006 "gamer house". Amazing game gr8 community, but all of those people have probably been eaten alive by life by now or moved on.

MY ADVICE to an EQ3 dev would be to do it in fully posable mixed VR/pancake (stripper / exotic dancer sidegame), make japs code the engine so it's beautiful and runs good like ffxiv, institute EQ style player interaction (ksing & trains), no playnice policy, use player policing a la the guide system to get super nerds who will work brutal hours gratis to ban hackers. Implement more "survival" style features the way early levels in EQ feel, where food is hard to come by and inventory management is annoying. Make it a bit of a trekking and surviving sidegame early on, where getting hit with a blizzard might fuck you up if you're traveling light without your coat. Slowly erode those bits of the game through enchantments etc., so that the world goes from being very hostile and trekking is super difficult, to being much safer because of your pegasus cloak that nullifies the basketball sized enchanted hail damage in the dragon ice wastes. Could have a whole weather tracking website for nerds at work. I would also recommend charging substantially more per account, something like $85/month or $45 with proof of SSDI, since the target players are whales of autism and you want to minimize boxing and filter kids out.

[Mblake81]

To add my two cents into the mix:

I don't mind some quality of life improvements (i.e. a quest journal or some option to where writing things down wasn't as necessary as in original EQ) but I do agree that part of the appeal of the game was not having maps, quest markers, etc. The idea that this was a real world that I had to explore to understand was part of what made the experience so memorable.

I like a three ring binder. Only game I ever had one for. These expectations and opinions were formed with EQ, not a different game.

That said, this could be an area where new mechanics could be added. Say, a "cartographer" skill that could be trained to allow players to make maps of zones for personal use or to sell to other players.

Me and Art talked about that back before Dark Age of Camelot released. We thought having a cart skill to make maps would be great, plan attacks etc. Truth is the world maps were not that complicated anymore. EQ is cool because it is. Truth is I think its more interesting when people make maps and put them online like original EQ.

Diverse classes/races that must depend on one another to succeed is a must. EQ is a group/guild based experience at its core and this should never change. I like the idea of variable builds of each class, but we shouldn't ever have a "do-it-all" class that can solo most of the content.

I want EQ classes, lore and races.

I would avoid any sort of "Auction House" style economy. Forcing players to interact in order to sell their items was a part of the fun, and allowed for haggling and trading.

Tunnel works fine.

I also agree with others that instancing is a bad idea. But perhaps think about a way to reward/incentivize players sharing camps and loot.

First come first serve, list, wait, Round Robbin, Alpha, /random 100.

Other than that, no thanks. No need to make the game convoluted or dumb or enable players to grow weaker and become bigger sissies.

I wouldn't change raiding either, still the stronger or most zerg possible. This is the apex of our culture.

Absolutely no microtransactions. Ever.

Agreed.

I would like to see crafting skills take on more importance. Maybe even as a form of alternative advancement. Perhaps blacksmithing or jewelry making could become viable leveling options with greater rewards for players willing to dedicate a character to non-combat roles. This could also create greater interdependency between players, with guilds needing not just raiding characters, but crafters and such as well. It could be an interesting challenge for groups to escort crafters safely through dungeons to get their materials and so on.

Played games were character advancement can be done with tradeskills. 20 years later I don't find myself playing those games.

Difficulty and danger are a must as well. EQ was fun because it was challenging, especially to new characters. We should still have to eat, drink, recover from fights, and sneak our way through higher level zones to get anywhere. I also agree that there shouldn't be any fast travel outside of certain spells. Again, anything that fosters players depending on one another is a plus.

SOW, Ports, Boats and avoiding insta-death. No horses or mounts.

If zones remain a thing, then they shouldn't be purely level based. I like that there are things for people to do in Zones like EC regardless of their level. Keep things like wandering guards, griffons, high level camps, etc.

Agreed. On a side note: One of the best things that happened during Green server launch was watching EQ vets getting ripped by the EC Griffin.

Alignment/reputation/religion must matter. A dark elf necromancer should not be able to wander into Qeynos without difficulty.

That is EQ.

I think player created content is a great idea as well. Perhaps this could be another way to work in a heavier crafting skill focus. Imagine guild halls made and outfitted by the guild's craftsmen.

Great for FPS games, Like DOD:Source (https://www.project1999.com/forums/album.php?albumid=303&pictureid=1348), but I am expecting the developers to do content since I would be paying a monthly fee. This is the mentality of early access and streamers of today, in fact PC game critics point a finger at EQ for helping to create that dung pile. Might as well use it for its correct purpose.

I know people have said to keep questing minimal in regards to exp rewards, so that the grindy nature of original EQ isn't changed. But, I do think that there are some ways to make questing a big part of the game. I would eliminate all "fetch me 3 rat whiskers" style quests for low-level characters in favor of more quests like the mail delivery quest that encourages players to experience the game world. More Quests like "Stein of Moggok" and the epics are what I would like to see. Long, complicated, and difficult to achieve without series effort and cooperation, but with great rewards. Quests should feel like QUESTS, an adventure you embark upon rather than a list of tasks you want to cross off over the course of an evening.

Cool with the League of Bards offering delivery quests, they already do and it fits the game world. Aside from this, read player adventure guides and go explore the world while grinding. I followed a 1-50 level guide for necros that took you to obscure places on all three continents back in the day.


Edit note: EQ used the full environment, including under water or levitation. Game released in 1999 yet 20 years later some games can't manage that. Don't be a wimp. Please don't consolize me or my friends anymore.

[Mblake81]

Places of interest.

Something I learned on P99 blue when the giants outside of Kael still gave really good factions hits, spontaneous places of interest where everyone pools around and does something. All you had to do was tag.

PVP areas. ..FFS I am trying desperately to avoid being WOW. I am thinking of places like Lower Guk, the zone Lower Guk but when you and your party zone in its PVP flagged. The dungeons with the best loot might be PVP enabled. This would require having a guild, that is good. Maybe a forest zone that is always dark off of Kithicor Forest that is PVP enabled. It takes you to one of the other zones if you wanna fight across. Is that fair enough? because those would also be places of interest. Nothing special, just EQ with PVP enabled in them. Simple.

[Solus]

more ideas from me:

Mystique

Keep the mystique of EQ 1. This game feels like high fantasy more than any other, it has a magic and mystique to it that is hard to put in words but you all know what I am talking about. The immersion needs to be there.

New race

Race 1: Umbrian. Human-like but taller, 6'3 on average. Dark hair, black eyes, with very good vision. Pale skinned. Cynical with a razor wit and great, dark humor. Looks like Severus Snape the race

[apprentice04]

I like the pick system that the TLPs use. Its not quite instancing, but helps with crowded zones and not having any camps available.

I like having no map.

I like having the holy trinity plus support as a separate role all together

I like the eq races and classes including hybrids having counter part spells much later than core classes (cleric spells known by a paladin 9 levels after clerics do)

I like the quests for epics and wish there were miniature epics half way or so through the level grind to max level

I very much liked the EQ2 crafting system

I very much liked Vanguard's diplomacy system

I liked the prismatic dyes for coloring armor

i very much liked the newbie armor quests in planes of power or whenever they were introduced

[GardylooGubbins]

i very much liked the newbie armor quests in planes of power or whenever they were introduced

I think newbie armor quests could work in a brand new game. I didn't like them as much during live because I felt like they were unbalanced as far as the power creep between them and regular items in the game.

[Tunabros]

But if we make this new EQ3 into classic EQ with just better graphics

a lot of new players checking it out might not have the same "taste" as us and find the

game as fun as we do

Sure, it's 2020 and people can learn quickly (I hope) and there tons of resources online

and I'm sure people will help

But I'm talking about the general gaming community

EQ is pretty under the radar when it comes to modern gaming so, I fear that it might

somewhat die

unless it somewhat appeals to this generation of gamers

[Solus]

But if we make this new EQ3 into classic EQ with just better graphics

a lot of new players checking it out might not have the same "taste" as us and find the

game as fun as we do

Sure, it's 2020 and people can learn quickly (I hope) and there tons of resources online

and I'm sure people will help

But I'm talking about the general gaming community

EQ is pretty under the radar when it comes to modern gaming so, I fear that it might

somewhat die

unless it somewhat appeals to this generation of gamers

Use an adventure system like I said, Everquest with worthy additions. Campaigns are an awesome idea I saw here. Make same combat but have it impact based where if you dodge attacks miss if your sword doesn’t touch etc. a hybrid system like this could work

[Tunabros]

Use an adventure system like I said, Everquest with worthy additions. Campaigns are an awesome idea I saw here. Make same combat but have it impact based where if you dodge attacks miss if your sword doesn’t touch etc. a hybrid system like this could work

To be honest, I think making a "campaign" into Everquest would ruin the overall

magic of the game. EQ classic is amazing and we all remembered it for the immersion

and how there weren't any NPCs around to say "Hey! GO kill 4 rabbits!"

You chose your own adventure and played it out

Back in the day, a lot of MMOs were like that, Runescape, Ultima Online, Asheron's call

for example

But now most MMOs have some sort of story system. So it is likely, like you said,

will be implemented into EQ3 (if it is being developed (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoDnlhxSZcQ&ab_channel=ForceGaming))

But it most likely not appeal to veteran EQ fans and it would die

But I am skeptical a new one will come...we have been cheated on with Landmark and Next so we will have to see

hopefully Pantheon does well

[imperiouskitten]

more ideas from me:

Mystique

Keep the mystique of EQ 1. This game feels like high fantasy more than any other, it has a magic and mystique to it that is hard to put in words but you all know what I am talking about. The immersion needs to be there.

New race

Race 1: Umbrian. Human-like but taller, 6'3 on average. Dark hair, black eyes, with very good vision. Pale skinned. Cynical with a razor wit and great, dark humor. Looks like Severus Snape the race

wasnt Mystique the name of the underage darkelf girl in that story?

speaking of which, remember, you are trying to attract THAT player eq3 dev. thx

[Mblake81]

A visual update but no change to the art style. Some additional zones made in the same styles.

You directly hit the veteran EQ players because they are the ones that will keep it going. But let's not get excited, it's never going to be a blockbuster in this modern game climate when half of that population are on mobile devices buying all sorts of stuff. So do it right or it might be a good idea to forget about it, you are either a WOW clone or some solo adventure disguised as a MMORPG these days.

hopefully Pantheon does well

You know, same here. The game has its fans on this board, I am not one of them. I keep getting this promise of classic EQ but when the finer details come out its always something else. Fool me once, shame on me. (it's three times now. EQ2, Vanguard and the streams I have seen for Pantheon. Let's not forget about EQNext and that EQ Minecraft game either.) Companies remaster games that are barely two years old now but something like EQ only gets shat on, repeatedly.

[Jibartik]

I would advise OP (a producer at EG7) to just clone fortnight and call it everquest! :o

[Jibartik]

Oh yea and add terrain manipulation and building houses.

[Tunabros]

Or maybe the age of MMOs is over

I can see wow slowly dying already...

[Mblake81]

Or maybe the age of MMOs is over

I can see wow slowly dying already...

Blizzard, like many of the old guard, is only a name.

The year was 2005 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAFLfx3mvIg)

[Ret.SaxonAlex]

I have some ideas for mmorpg of my own that I may want to keep for myself for a future rainy day. I am not too afraid though to say an Everquest and Shadowbane combination would be great. Instead of huge amounts of player cities, make only 4-7 per continent. With the decline of video games Shadowbane or a Shadowbane 2 could easily make a good mobile phone game at the very least. Shadowbane had no content and Everquest has the best content. Another separate video game idea like Everquest 3 I would have positive feelings about. I never played EQ2 and wont for some time. EQ2 was along time ago. Everquest 3 would be interesting. It would have to find the middle ground between Everquest and World of Warcraft. That would be hard because all others have failed. It may not even be possible but it would be nice to see if it is. No one can forever have the time to play a game like Everquest Classic in which the ratio to casual player and non-casual is significant. I think making it half EQ and half modern mmorpg may not be the right ratio. Maybe two thirds classic EQ to one third Wow style. If hearthstones are implemented maybe change the gate time to 2 or 3 times longer than that of Wow. I could play an Everquest with an explanation point above NPCs names. Everquest though is at its core a gambling game. Making everything equal and fair may take away from this feel. Maybe most quest are traditionally like World of Warcraft. Also, maybe few NPCs have quests that you have to talk to them in /say and figure out the right words, that you may easily pass over. Leaving the same feel of "Hey that guy knew a thing I didn't!" It may be hard to find the perfect balance but it would be nice to see if its possible to carry on the mmorpg world in the right direction. I think it would be cool though if a business man in Tokyo with no time could enjoy something for him.

[Swindle]

I want trains.

[Mblake81]

Computers did not die. (https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/the-decline-of-video-games-visualized-in-one-infographic.136127/)

(languish for over a decade)

[regandna]

Pantheon 2023

[Thulian]

housing was a bad idea in every single game that ever had it

[Knuckle]

EQ3 I would spin in the direction of something closer to what fits EQ 1 on steroids. Use the original world on the newest unreal engine, crank city and land size up by 2x at least but maintain the formula of using static/roaming mobs with set loot tables. Add some additional factions that are at war with eachother, make the merchant path a viable one for players to choose, and perhaps some set limited territories for player contesting of certain loots and dungeons ala DAOC. Keep it as much of a non instanced game as possibe.

[Knuckle]

Computers did not die. (https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/the-decline-of-video-games-visualized-in-one-infographic.136127/)

(languish for over a decade)

40b is a nice fat number, but god those mobile figures are DISGUSTING. I hate mobile games, I used to work a job where mobile was fun time to time, but the overall experience is shit and even ports to mobile of console classics are garbage compared to the original. We are being force fed low quality cash mill products and there is a generation of kids that this is their idea of 'gaming'. Not all, but some, and that by itself is a shame, because at least as a genesis/snes kid growing up, the goal was to make such a GREAT game that you sell a shit ton of copies of it to get it to every kid in every home. The games tried to have amazing music/story/gameplay to keep you hooked.

To think that almost no games are not tainted in some way shape or form by "DLC" or "Seasons" and that immersion is secondary to micro transactions and paywalls is complete shit.

[Danth]

housing was a bad idea in every single game that ever had it

I think Runescape implemented it pretty well, at least at first (the disclaimer because I haven't touched that game in ~10 years). Housing wasn't simply a "Barbie decorate house" in that game; rather it was a designed currency sink as well as used for leveling some of that game's other skills and also used for travel purpose. Houses were a nice addition there. Notably they were also kept in their own instance outside the normal game world. This is definitely the exception though. Most games seem to be less thoughtful and simply do the "Barbie decorate" implementation which is uniformly pointless and a waste of development manhours.

Danth

[Ret.SaxonAlex]

I thought this trailer was made for Super Everquest. In the battle of Erudin. Sorry to ruin the game for you. But you are not real, and figments of my imagination so its not ruining anything.

Dunkirk - Trailer 1

Edit: It was not on purpose to pick Erudin

[magnetaress]

An install size under 1gb.

[Khikik]

Full VR MMO

I want my Iksar Lapdance

[Ret.SaxonAlex]

An install size under 1gb.

I hope I can make it one day. First I have to make some money. There are hopefully two ways I can do that. But first I have to defeat Antifa stomping on my ceiling. Even then mentally I would have to try enjoy living in a fake world before I would have the will power. Then hopefully I can buy the rights to EQ and make it and become a billionaire.

Then buy some land. Make an alternative to Alcoholics Anonymous. Find some easy work such as harvest their own crops. Just so the Antifa psycho (How much are you working?) police go away, for the people there.

Pick up some homeless guys. Let them sign a contract that says, "I was probably just going to die on the streets", so maybe AA will leave us alone and not be any lawsuits. Give them some cheap but good games like EQ, and reward them with alcohol when they haven't drank for long periods of time.

I want to do it, so maybe in another world I wouldn't be afraid of people taking my booze, for believing I was being tortured by a secret society. And because its right of course. shouldn't have to say that.

[Bardp1999]

housing was a bad idea in every single game that ever had it

Ultima Online did it right for a bit, then it got kinda stupid with the over customization

[Ret.SaxonAlex]

Ultima Online did it right for a bit, then it got kinda stupid with the over customization

I had that as a theory when I heard about houses. I couldn't even begin to touch making an Ultima Online. But it would be nice to try one day.

[Tunabros]

housing was a bad idea in every single game that ever had it

except for....minecraft!

[magnetaress]

Also less automation and dialog boxes spamming the screen. Make it annoying AF to macro and target. Keep the UI paired down and do not implement systems that cause people to chase the ever worsening addon bloat.

It should take 10 minutes to craft an item, but decrease the amount you need to repeat a recipe for a skill up. Make this hard to automate. Probably just require a small mini game that requires a little attention to complete successfully.

Tradeskills should take center stage in the economy and gameplay with several tiers of item and have some rarity and RNG. Think tradeskill equivalent of the fungi tunic. Players should be fine to reach max level in the basic stuff and the raid stuff should stay relevant for at least 3 expansions. (Less progression, more variety and content, story).

Dungeons should be really complex and non-linear.

Allow players the pleasure of finding secrets, like a gnoll chieftain who allows you to side with him to teach a secret crafting recipe if you faction.

Make death random and exciting, if you go opening doors in Inns and poking your head in were you weren't invited you should get blasted by an evil lvl 40 wizard @ lvl 10.

Don't break immersion by making every thing glow and flash and sparkle and have arrows.

Allow people to discover good quests.

Allow people to break the game a bit with items, or finding ways to fight 50 mobs at once.

Death traps.

Let players trade with NPCs in cities as an alternative to farming HGs for plat by buying goods low and selling high in another town. Randomize this or give it some algorithm with a bit of RNG.

Make instant travel rare and only between hubs. Every part of the game shouldn't be accessible to every character.

Don't have like 50 abilities. Keep it simple and synergistic. Just like how CH works extremely well on warriors, but not really a wizard.

[imperiouskitten]

except for....minecraft!

i would nest with u and marry u and treat you soo sweet



































in minecraft

[magnetaress]

Yikes

*digs a lava trap and places illusory flooring*

[hobart]

If EQ3 Hypothetically were in development, what would you suggest?

Did anyone suggest rooted mobs and mario cart foot races yet?

[Ret.SaxonAlex]

Did anyone suggest rooted mobs and mario cart foot races yet?

I think there is a problem in the sense that, games get stale after people have played it for a bit. And with each new expansion sometimes people want to play new classes. Adding a free level 90 to each expansion would increase peoples willingness to play. Resetting your talents seems a little unnecessary anyway. This should be removed because in shooter game things are realistic, which is what fantasy games need.

Aww I feel like I'm making fun of a friend on that last one.

I do hate reading books all day in Wow though. I hate to rag on the nerds rights activist... but can I please not read a page in a book every time I do a quest. Or else I'll make algebra class make you shoot a 3 pointer in basketball first.

[Ret.SaxonAlex]

Sorry I don't know about the rooted mobs and mario races, I thought u were joking.

[technologywell]

i here to read your suggestions. You guys have great minds
regards

[Solus]

great ideas all. will be finalizing a letter to Darkpaw this week, but one more question...any soundtrack ideas? who should do it? I say Matt Uelmen. Any ideas all?

[magnetaress]

Minimalist UI.

Deep crafting ties into many of the good items with some customization.

Flexible and meaningful stat allocation.

Lots of low level content.

Very slow exp rate.

All items tradable.

No instances.

Common, rare, ultra rare tiers. Common tier is competitive with ultra rare. Ultra rare is luxury, for showing off. Game and quests completable with Common tier. Little "progression treadmill " or none really. Just a great environment. Beautiful pyramids to a female version of Cazic Thule.

Some content requires groups regardless of lvl and gear.

Player staffed law enforcement. Rules. Judicial. Punitive system that rewards privileges and power on a meritocratic basis. Capitol punishment is referred to paid games masters.

[Jibartik]

It should look and feel and play exactly like eq1 but with great lighting and denser models. More level 45-50 dungeon content. Deeper quests. And raiding is only 20% of the game.

At best it should look like the box art cover of everquest, at worst it will just be a clone of eq1

[magnetaress]

I honestly think that the majority of classic EQ content we all enjoyed exploring was explorable sub 40.

Top end game play. 3 week /list camps, is the stupidity of endless grinds and progression. It's going to be the death knell to all mmos.

When they could just make more content to suit more tastes and themes.

Max level is when people quit. Nothing can keep them playing at that point. Except a niche of really competitive tribal zerg behavior.

[Mblake81]

great ideas all. will be finalizing a letter to Darkpaw this week, but one more question...any soundtrack ideas? who should do it? I say Matt Uelmen. Any ideas all?

https://twitter.com/jbarbeau

https://i.imgur.com/zsGc6v7.jpg