Lull

[rjw513]

Is lull useful all the way, or do I need to get soothe and calm for higher levels?

For Paladin FYI

[Baler]

lul spells are strongly affected by CHA and level. So make sure you get that as high as possible if you plan to land successful luls

For example a dwarf(55) will have a harder time successfully lulling than a high elf(90), with base stats.

You will want to get the higher level lull spells.

[Legidias]

CHA only affects the critical resist rate. Level difference is the only thing to affect actual resists.


Low CHA and high CHA make no difference in landing a lull.

[Barlu]

As was mentioned above Charisma only impacts the chances of a critical resist.

As for your question, the different spells have different reductions in Agro radius and spell duration. I never use lull and as a general rule, I’ll use calm in most every situation (same as when playing my enchanter). It only costs 50 mana and the reduction in Agro range pretty much allows you to fight/pull on top/through of a mob without agro. It does only have a 3 minute duration though.

There are also times when pacify makes sense given the 7 minute duration but 100 mana per cast. The Agro range reduction isn’t nearly as good as calm either so you can’t always pull right on top of a mob like you can with calm.

Hope this helps!

[mcoy]

Pacify is worse radius than calm? I use the heck out of pacify thanks to donal's bracer and it feels like I can sit right on them without getting agro.

-Mcoy

[greatdane]

The whole line of lull spells is pretty horrible without very high charisma. If you have the kind of charisma that a paladin is likely to have in normal gear, it's rarely safe to cast it at all because there's like a 30% chance to just aggro the whole batch. You really need 150-200+ charisma to comfortably use lulls in any setting where a hard fail is dangerous. It's pretty much just an enchanter thing. And of course Harmony for druid/ranger since it's unresistable.

I'm quite sure charisma affects not only the chance of crit resist but also regular resist. That is at least the case with the undead lulls. I just leveled from 26 to 31 on that one 4-spawn skeleton house in LoIO over the last few days and it was very clear that the lull got resisted way more than normal spells, presumably due to my iksar's 50 charisma. Low blues that would resist snare no more than 5% of the time tops would resist lull easily 30% of the time.

The rank of the spell doesn't affect resist chance unless the specific spell has a negative resist modifier, which I don't think any lulls do in this timeline except for Harmony. The ranks affect what level of mobs can be targeted and how much their aggro radius is reduced. With the low-level versions, mobs have to stand a fair distance away in order to not add. With the high-level ones they'd have to be french-kissing the target to get pulled along.

[Baler]

Odd I got flack for saying high CHA is important... I think people take words to heart and feel they have to personally defend words to uphold their honor.

Crit fail = SUPER bad | fail = meh | success = good.

Reduce the number of crit fails with high CHA means you'll increase the overall number of fail or succeed. Meaning you'll succeed more. Not much more to add, Just wanted to defend myself in this thread.

[kaev]

Odd I got flack for saying high CHA is important... I think people take words to heart and feel they have to personally defend words to uphold their honor.

Crit fail = SUPER bad | fail = meh | success = good.

Reduce the number of crit fails with high CHA means you'll increase the overall number of fail or succeed. Meaning you'll succeed more. Not much more to add, Just wanted to defend myself in this thread.

We don't need any of your big picture garbage here Baler. All decisions in this forum must be made based upon on the most narrowly drawn assertions and arguments, it is vitally important that likely outcomes in the field be excluded from every discussion.

[Baler]

We don't need any of your big picture garbage here Baler. All decisions in this forum must be made based upon on the most narrowly drawn assertions and arguments, it is vitally important that likely outcomes in the field be excluded from every discussion.

lol wow,. I'll draw you a picture hang on.

edit: (not to perfect scale, it's a demonstration image)
https://i.imgur.com/H6VUoR7.png

Less crit resists means you have another opportunity to re-cast the spell for a successful land.

edit2: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=327383
Relevant thread -Lull line -- some empirical testing on CHA and crit resist rates

[Videri]

I know you said it's "not to perfect scale," but the "success" portion should be the same size for both Low Cha and Higher Cha. Otherwise it implies that higher cha increases successful lull. It doesn't. It only decreases crit resist in the event of a resist. Only level affects overall resist rate.

C = crit fail, F = non-critical failure, S = success

Low Cha:
|C----------|F----------|S-------------------|

High Cha:
|C-----|F---------------|S-------------------|

Order of events when you cast a lull:
1. The game compares your level to the target's level and rolls virtual dice to determine if the spell lands or is resisted. If the spell lands, you're all set.
2. If the spell is resisted, the game looks at your charisma and rolls virtual dice to determine if the resist is critical (aggro) or non-critical (nothing happens).
Notice that charisma is only checked if the lull is resisted. If it is not resisted, charisma is not checked. That's why an ugly Dwarf can often get away with lulling greens.

Overall, yes, charisma is important when lulling and some players carry a Crude Stein, G. Medallion, or other big charisma items to equip before casting a lull.

[Videri]

No one has answered OP's question.

OP, Lull, Soothe, Calm, and Pacify all land on mobs up to 55. However, each tier of the spell decreases aggro radius by a greater amount. For instance, if you Lull a mob and get close to it, or pull its friend close to it, it will still aggro. If you Pacify it instead, you can fight right next to it.

Secondly, the duration gets longer. Pacify is 7 minutes. You can kill multiple mobs right in front of a pacified mob for those 7 minutes. And then you can refresh it, hehe.

Off the top of my head, aggro radius reduction, duration, and mana cost are the only three factors that differ. Using that info, you can determine when to use Lull, Soothe, or Calm. But definitely scribe all of those spells. Does that answer your question, OP?

[Nagoya]

The whole line of lull spells is pretty horrible without very high charisma. If you have the kind of charisma that a paladin is likely to have in normal gear, it's rarely safe to cast it at all because there's like a 30% chance to just aggro the whole batch. You really need 150-200+ charisma to comfortably use lulls in any setting where a hard fail is dangerous. It's pretty much just an enchanter thing. And of course Harmony for druid/ranger since it's unresistable.

I used lull on my paladin all the time on groups of mobs that we could handle all together, but preferred to split if possible. i mean it's okay if all three jump on us, we'll root and back up and mez etc. it will cost a lot of mana and downtime after the fight but whatever. but if lull works and i can pull only one? or two? then all the better and we've saved a lot of mana and time. why not use it?? I don't understand your logic to not use something because it has a (high or not) chance to fail. This is the case for so many things in EverQuest :confused: (e.g. Feign Death, Gate, Tradeskill combines, name it...)

@OP: I used Lull most of the time. But sometimes if mobs are closer to each other, or the pathing is weird/bad, or you need the extra duration etc. I used Soothe. So yes it is worth it to have all three in your spellbook and play around with them a bit IMO.

[Baler]

Thank you Videri for correcting me. I noticed that after I posted it but thought kaev would fire back so didn't bother re-making the ms paint masterpiece (little joke at the end)

you're correct.

[Crede]

Pacify is worse radius than calm? I use the heck out of pacify thanks to donal's bracer and it feels like I can sit right on them without getting agro.

-Mcoy

Pacify has a better radius than calm. I think a lot of people just assumed calm was the best for so long because pacify's duration was garbage for the amount of mana it costed until the 2019 patch which made it longer. for a cleric with donal's bracer though pacify is a no brainer. for many enc/pally calm still makes the most sense due to its efficiency

[rjw513]

Yes, quality info fellas...thank you!

WTB crude stein, pst Ascher (:

[Barlu]

Pacify has a better radius than calm. I think a lot of people just assumed calm was the best for so long because pacify's duration was garbage for the amount of mana it costed until the 2019 patch which made it longer. for a cleric with donal's bracer though pacify is a no brainer. for many enc/pally calm still makes the most sense due to its efficiency

Apologize for the incorrect information on my end earlier. I always thought Calm was the “best” of the spell line. I haven’t played enchanter much since the patch changing the duration of Pacify so I just always used calm.

[kjs86z]

This is why top tier paladins max CHA at creation and keep a bag of high CHA items in their inventory.

[Danth]

Most of the time you will need to use at least Soothe. Lull itself does not usually reduce aggro by a large enough radius except in particularly spread-out camps. Calm works well enough for nearly anyplace and Pacify is only seldom necessary unless you need to walk practically on top of something.

Danth

[Lartanin63]

One thing to mention is deep water vambraces have soothe on them. I use these mostly all the time instead of scribing any spell. You can pick up a Luminary Two Handed Sword for the charisma buff. There are quite a few other cheap charisma items paladins can wear as well. I only use the sword and I'm s high elf though. Good luck on the pulls!

[Snaggles]

All good points.

It’s not hard for most to get mid 100’s CHA which is very functional for solo or group work. A kobold jester helm is 30 and a crude stein is 15. Sham’s and ench’s can buff about 50 and the Luminary sword as mentioned is a lower level sham spell (like 28 points?). Dragonskin mask is high AC and CHA; not bad for general tanking. Two Overseer Signets are 16 CHA (good for extra MR sometimes too). Plus all the ragefire armor is full of CHA.

Solo or farming I use DW arms; swapping for a click is easier than meming a spell and no sit aggro. If pulling or helping pull I use calm or pacify. Usually you have clarity so it’s not a huge cost and the cast is quicker.

When solo just assume lull might fail, then every landed one is a blessing. In a group set expectations and stay chatty, hope for the best. With a team awake at the wheel worst case 5 mobs rush the tank who has LoH up. That’s way less chaotic than a swarm at an ench or cleric. It’s not a clean pull but controlled chaos is kinda fun :).

[magnetaress]

bump charisma is extra handy to have innaately :D

Very nice description of how lull works, wanted to re-read up on this. Found this wonderful thread.

[Gustoo]

Yeah its a great thread.

I think it comes down to what era your paladin is going to be in.