The Corona Perspective Some of You Seem to lack

[Castle2.0]

Some points:

A lot of people die every single week in America (50,000-60,000) from all causes. That's sobering.
Corona looks like the +8k/week seasonal change in weekly deaths maybe 2x that at the worst week or two.
We're getting back to normal 50-60k levels.
Hindsight will show Corona was bad, and bad things happen, but the hyper-ventilating and over-the-top rhetoric was for (1) ratings and (2) politics.


Now who wants to guess how many more deaths and negative health effects due to the lockdown (drugs, alcohol, abuse, suicide, etc.)? There are studies that show a correlation between GDP and suicide. What about quality of life? What about education? "BUT MUH POLITICAL NARRATIVE AND WE AREN'T AT 0 DEATHS YET!!!" Cool story bro - we never reach 0 - that's life, or should I say, death. Keep your narrative.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

People still get swine flu (H1N1) - it's seasonal (like flu) and is a part of the flu shot. Do we freak out every year about H1N1?

[Mead]

It’s like this dude is using the same talking points from a couple of months ago and just can’t cope with the fact that it didn’t work the first time.

[Castle2.0]

I'm sorry I wasn't inclusive in my communication style. Instead of just charts and numbers I should have included emotional appeals wrapped in political language that reaffirms your politics/worldview to reach you. I'll try better next time.

[booter]

US has ~4% of the world's population and ~20% of its COVID deaths

hth will your 'perspective'

[Jauna]

US has ~4% of the world's population and ~20% of its COVID deaths

hth will your 'perspective'

thats because americans still report them, many countries just strait up stopped

[Castle2.0]

Let me fix that for statement for you - then we can use our brains and gather more info to understand your statement in context.

US has ~4% of the world's population and ~20% of its reported* COVID deaths

Four points on this:

China has been been cruising at ~80,000 reported deaths for months. The virus originated here. They have lower hygiene and sanitation standards, and their cities have higher population density. Also the government heavily controls information. I know, I lived in China 10+ years. There is no way on God's green earth the numbers they have put out are accurate - which would be par for the course for Chinese gov't stats. I would wager, other countries with big populations are also under reporting (Russia, India, etc.) The US is actually quite transparent on stats. Go us!
The US has a LOT of contact with China - lots of travel both ways. The US being this affected by the virus so much has more to do with mid/end 2019 travel to/from China than it does our reaction to it. It was already here. We just needed to not screw our elderly in nursing homes ala NY/MI
US is over reporting. Part fear, part political - those are related. Dying while having COVID ≠ dying because of COVID.
We got a mixed bag of results of countries locking down versus not locking down. Mask mandates versus no mandates.

[Pretzelle]

It’s like this dude is using the same talking points from a couple of months ago and just can’t cope with the fact that it didn’t work the first time.

[BlackBellamy]

US has ~4% of the world's population and ~20% of its reported COVID deaths

hth will your 'perspective'

So I fixed that for you but it's ok, I don't think it's going to change your ratio too much.

Of course we're going to suffer more pandemic deaths. It's America, no? I mean this is the land of the free? Who invented the rebel biker guy? Who invented the hippies? Do you cheer for the Empire or the Rebel Alliance? Do you think Happy Days was popular because of Richie Cunningham?

Do you think we follow the fucking rules? When was the last time you drove the speed limit?

Of course we're going to have greater casualties for any event that requires regimented social cohesion. It's built into the system, you can't blame any administration or people for that. We have a federal system, all the governors did their own shit because they could, and half the people said sure and the other half said fuck you, just like expected. Because this is what Americans do.

If you want to live in a society that is more resistant to pandemics you have to change the fabric and the nature of this country's culture. But for every change there are consequences. Disasters have many forms. Right now the US is the major nation best suited to coming back from nuclear holocaust, partly because we're decentralized, federalized, and we have tons of "cells" of inherent authority that can exist without a top-down structure, and also we have a nation of hardy fuck-you survivors. You change that into some tightly regimented nation of cowed retards looking to do what they've been told and you're looking at some unintended consequences down the line.

[hobart]

So I fixed that for you but it's ok, I don't think it's going to change your ratio too much.

Of course we're going to suffer more pandemic deaths. It's America, no? I mean this is the land of the free? Who invented the rebel biker guy? Who invented the hippies? Do you cheer for the Empire or the Rebel Alliance? Do you think Happy Days was popular because of Richie Cunningham?

Do you think we follow the fucking rules? When was the last time you drove the speed limit?

Of course we're going to have greater casualties for any event that requires regimented social cohesion. It's built into the system, you can't blame any administration or people for that. We have a federal system, all the governors did their own shit because they could, and half the people said sure and the other half said fuck you, just like expected. Because this is what Americans do.

If you want to live in a society that is more resistant to pandemics you have to change the fabric and the nature of this country's culture. But for every change there are consequences. Disasters have many forms. Right now the US is the major nation best suited to coming back from nuclear holocaust, partly because we're decentralized, federalized, and we have tons of "cells" of inherent authority that can exist without a top-down structure, and also we have a nation of hardy fuck-you survivors. You change that into some tightly regimented nation of cowed retards looking to do what they've been told and you're looking at some unintended consequences down the line.

It's the PJ O'Rourke argument. It works until the point you realize that freedom should not equal freedumb.

Public officials should still feel obligated to advise the Fonz not to take the Hooper triplets to inspiration point during COVID. They should not be insisting that it's fake news.

[hobart]

The perspective OP seems to lack:

You're arguing against how you think a few theoretical people feel about COVID.

Wear a mask. Social distance. It's not a big ask, Trumptard.

If doing those things would make a dent in cancer rates or auto accidents, I'd do it to help save a few people from those too.

People smarter than both of us (especially you) suggest basic precautions. That's how the majority of people are addressing this pandemic.

The rest of it is you projecting.

[Arvan]

Some people can copy paste a fancy graph and still not be highly intelligent it seems...

[Castle2.0]

You're arguing against how you think a few theoretical people feel about COVID.You're right, no one is gravely concerned about COVID. I'm glad we settled this.

Trumptard This is where you put your foot in your mouth, I didn't vote for him :D What is it you clever social media kids say these days, Trump "is living in your head rent free." I think that's the burn. Ohh and another one the clever social media kids on the right say "Trump Derangement Syndrome." Double burn, I suppose. I got one more "facts don't care about your feelings." I actually like that one. It's true.

The rest of it is you projecting. Listen to your own words. You are projecting your projection.

If doing those things would make a dent in cancer rates or auto accidents, I'd do it to help save a few people from those too. Go do it and let the rest of us decide if we want to do it or not ;)

You can always do more. Why aren't you? You're probably doing what you believe is 'right and reasonable.' Are you in the camp of people that think 'don't force your beliefs on others.' If so, will you let others do what they believe is 'right and reasonable' for them? I would hope so.

Here's one thing you can do - don't be an ass and make ass_umptions about people. You've made more than a few incorrect ones in one short post. Maybe you can try some questions like I did in my previous paragraph.

It's the PJ O'Rourke argument. It works until the point you realize that freedom should not equal freedumb. What exactly is "freedumb"? Can you describe it in detail? Can you tell us all why we should not do this "freedumb" thing?

[douglas1999]

Once covid-19 is gone, society will finally be safe. As of this posting, it is currently .02% unsafe!

[Jimjam]

The perspective OP seems to lack:

You're arguing against how you think a few theoretical people feel about COVID.

Wear a mask. Social distance. It's not a big ask, Trumptard.

If doing those things would make a dent in cancer rates or auto accidents, I'd do it to help save a few people from those too.

People smarter than both of us (especially you) suggest basic precautions. That's how the majority of people are addressing this pandemic.

The rest of it is you projecting.

You forgot to mention wash your hands...

[hobart]

You forgot to mention wash your hands...

I would hope that would go without saying. But considering where we are, you're probably right...

[JackofSpade]

Some points:

A lot of people die every single week in America (50,000-60,000) from all causes. That's sobering.
Corona looks like the +8k/week seasonal change in weekly deaths maybe 2x that at the worst week or two.
We're getting back to normal 50-60k levels.
Hindsight will show Corona was bad, and bad things happen, but the hyper-ventilating and over-the-top rhetoric was for (1) ratings and (2) politics.


Now who wants to guess how many more deaths and negative health effects due to the lockdown (drugs, alcohol, abuse, suicide, etc.)? There are studies that show a correlation between GDP and suicide. What about quality of life? What about education? "BUT MUH POLITICAL NARRATIVE AND WE AREN'T AT 0 DEATHS YET!!!" Cool story bro - we never reach 0 - that's life, or should I say, death. Keep your narrative.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

People still get swine flu (H1N1) - it's seasonal (like flu) and is a part of the flu shot. Do we freak out every year about H1N1?

So I fixed that for you but it's ok, I don't think it's going to change your ratio too much.

Of course we're going to suffer more pandemic deaths. It's America, no? I mean this is the land of the free? Who invented the rebel biker guy? Who invented the hippies? Do you cheer for the Empire or the Rebel Alliance? Do you think Happy Days was popular because of Richie Cunningham?

Do you think we follow the fucking rules? When was the last time you drove the speed limit?

Of course we're going to have greater casualties for any event that requires regimented social cohesion. It's built into the system, you can't blame any administration or people for that. We have a federal system, all the governors did their own shit because they could, and half the people said sure and the other half said fuck you, just like expected. Because this is what Americans do.

If you want to live in a society that is more resistant to pandemics you have to change the fabric and the nature of this country's culture. But for every change there are consequences. Disasters have many forms. Right now the US is the major nation best suited to coming back from nuclear holocaust, partly because we're decentralized, federalized, and we have tons of "cells" of inherent authority that can exist without a top-down structure, and also we have a nation of hardy fuck-you survivors. You change that into some tightly regimented nation of cowed retards looking to do what they've been told and you're looking at some unintended consequences down the line.

Let me fix that for statement for you - then we can use our brains and gather more info to understand your statement in context.

US has ~4% of the world's population and ~20% of its reported* COVID deaths

Four points on this:

China has been been cruising at ~80,000 reported deaths for months. The virus originated here. They have lower hygiene and sanitation standards, and their cities have higher population density. Also the government heavily controls information. I know, I lived in China 10+ years. There is no way on God's green earth the numbers they have put out are accurate - which would be par for the course for Chinese gov't stats. I would wager, other countries with big populations are also under reporting (Russia, India, etc.) The US is actually quite transparent on stats. Go us!
The US has a LOT of contact with China - lots of travel both ways. The US being this affected by the virus so much has more to do with mid/end 2019 travel to/from China than it does our reaction to it. It was already here. We just needed to not screw our elderly in nursing homes ala NY/MI
US is over reporting. Part fear, part political - those are related. Dying while having COVID ≠ dying because of COVID.
We got a mixed bag of results of countries locking down versus not locking down. Mask mandates versus no mandates.


Some points, in the USA while led by Donald Trump, positive covid cases are OVER 20% of corona virus cases worldwide, and OVER 20% of deaths from corona virus worldwide have happen to United States citizens =(

Meanwhile, the United States population represents UNDER 5% of the population on planet earth.

Can you in any way explain or justify why people living in the USA are about FIVE TIMES more likely to get COVID and DIE from COVID?

[GinnasP99]

Because covid is not real and all these stats are being used to instill fear (and control) YOU

[Barkingturtle]

Imagine believing "200k+ preventable deaths is no biggie" is a compelling argument to anyone but abject maniacs and fucking dipshits.

Look, the Right turned our COVID response into a culture war battle because the self-serving POTUS encouraged them to and now you're suffering cognitive dissonance and doubling down on beliefs you simply can't admit to yourself are wrong. This is the president's entire political strategy: tell lies which blatantly contradict consensus reality, forcing his followers to hold beliefs which run contrary to what they deep down know to be true, resulting in a cult of malleable zombies. This is basic manipulation and if you don't recognize these tactics for what they are you are extremely susceptible. Sorry that's just how human brains work(or don't).

[remen]

Imagine believing "200k+ preventable deaths is no biggie" is a compelling argument to anyone but abject maniacs and fucking dipshits.

Look, the Right turned our COVID response into a culture war battle because the self-serving POTUS encouraged them to and now you're suffering cognitive dissonance and doubling down on beliefs you simply can't admit to yourself are wrong. This is the president's entire political strategy: tell lies which blatantly contradict consensus reality, forcing his followers to hold beliefs which run contrary to what they deep down know to be true, resulting in a cult of malleable zombies. This is basic manipulation and if you don't recognize these tactics for what they are you are extremely susceptible. Sorry that's just how human brains work(or don't).

While your post makes perfect sense, the amount of big words you used is going to alienate any Trump supporters that read it.

You have to stick to single (or at most double) syllable words for them to understand. For example, "Make America great again "...they know what that means!

[Topgunben]

Covid is a huge sham. It's been an opportunity for otherwise weak leaders to take supreme control and ignore the rights of the American people.

When all the dust has settled, we will look back at the highly political response to covid as one of the worst blunders in recent history.

Everything OP shared is true, that's what worries me about some of you. You just want to ignore facts in favor of your feelings.

[Castle2.0]

preventable
Ha.

I can't believe the world leaders from the past 20 years. We have ~600,000 PREVENTABLE global flu deaths every year...

Obviously, they are to blame for the 100% of these 600,000 deaths which are all entirely preventable if "my guy" was running the show....

Why aren't we social distancing and masking BEFORE COVID? Why isn't it mandated? Why aren't we forcing people to wash their hands and hide in their homes EVERY flu season and beyond... just to be sure?

Don't you CARE about these 600,000 people? Typical heartless money-grubbing capitalists!

Do you see how silly you sound now?

[Castle2.0]

Hi my name is Bob. I care about the 1M*** COVID flu deaths, but not the 600K regular flu deaths annually. I didn't think we should mask, lockdown, test, and freak out for those 600K, but for these 1M*** ya'know.. it just reached my "I care" limit of 750K people.

Don't be like Bob, people.

THIS ^^ is why your argument is either (1) stupid or (2) hypocritical.

Unless you want your draconian BS policies post-COVID and you can explain with a great reason why we didn't need them pre-COVID, you're argument is total BS.

[Jibartik]

There are 2 types of people in the world.

Anti maskers (anti vaxers etc)

People who expected their neighbors to wear a mask and stop bitching during a pandemic.

That is all.

Edit: You say the left is crazy but this is what you thinks wearing a mask for a couple years during a pandemic means:

https://i.imgur.com/niTOoZG.png

[Pretzelle]

Trump's Grandpa died from the Spanish Flu in 1918.

[Toad1]

US has ~4% of the world's population and ~20% of its COVID deaths

hth will your 'perspective'

We are actually reporting numbers instead of lying, also if anyone dies in a hospital they put covid for more funding so the more numbers we have the more money medical whores ( yes i said whores because all doctors are attention and money whores and nurses are almost all lazy and just want a decent paying job and dont give a fuck )

[Castle2.0]

There are 2 types of people in the world. Wrong. There are 3. Those who can do math and those who don't.

Your ad hominem attack (1) shows you don't have answer to my point about 600K flu deaths you seemingly don't care about and (2) is hilarious because it's absolutely wrong and (3) shows you the world in easily segmented groups (a related idea to identify politics which is one of the uglier sides of the modern left.)

I am pro vaccine - I don't believe Bill Gates is trying to take over the world ;)

Also I have probably worn N-95 and N-99 masks more than anyone on this forum for regularly daily life protection for the last 10 years (aka not a medical professional, car painter/detailer, construction worker, and no underlying medical/respiratory conditions.) I had 2 HEPA air purifiers in my home for 10+ years.

Lastly, people have no idea how to use PPE. Doctors are trained SPECIFICALLY on how to use PPE. Do you even medical bro?

Average joe is stuffing his crappy cloth mask into his pocket, his glove compartment, his backpack etc,. He is touching it before and after eating food, and is rarely washing it. A widespread mask mandate where the vast majority of people using (faulty) masks this way isn't gonna do much.

----------------------------------------------

So don't tell me I'm in some anti vax or anti mask group. Just answer the question, if you can.

Now that Pretzelle and Jibartik have both been out-virtue-signaled and your ad hominem attacks laid bare, can you just answer this simple question?

Why didn't you support social distancing, lockdowns, and mandated widespread mask usage during the recent (and ongoing) decades of flu epidemic that kill 600,000 every year?

Looking forward to your answers - I'm sure they will be very enlightening ;)

[Jibartik]

Wrong. There are 3. Those who can do math and those who don't.

Your ad hominem attack (1) shows you don't have answer to my point about 600K flu deaths you seemingly don't care about and (2) is hilarious because it's absolutely wrong and (3) shows you the world in easily segmented groups (a related idea to identify politics which is one of the uglier sides of the modern left.)

What do you want me to say about your llogic that because someone dies of the flu that we should let people die of covid?

There is nothing I need to say to that

How dare you say I made an adhominem attack at you this OP and thread is full of you making themn, every point youve made is literally an adhominem attack and not based on any form of critical thinking.

We dont even need draconiam measures to reduce the deaths of flu you god damn monster the left has been trying to spend tax dollars on relief and aid to countries that have been requesting it since the fucking 60s and i have to listen to rant about vaxinations and flat earth style arguments against covid

Your arguments make no sense in any shape or form what do you want me to address?

LIbearls STand back and STAND by the covid deaths are "totally FINE!"

is that what you want to hear?

Jesus just shut up and wear a mask, why are you even upset you spent half of 2020 in your bedroom??????

[Jibartik]

W

Why didn't you support social distancing, lockdowns, and mandated widespread mask usage during the recent (and ongoing) decades of flu epidemic that kill 600,000 every year?

Looking forward to your answers - I'm sure they will be very enlightening ;)

I SUPPORT AID TO FOREIGN COUNTRIES. FOOD NOT BOMBS YOU BIG DERP.

[GinnasP99]

and nurses are almost all lazy

I challenge you to find a nurse (or anyone you see walking around in scrubs) with a healthy, shredded physique.

[Toad1]

good point

[Mota]

People work towards an extra 25hp in their 4k hp pool but argue against masks because of minimal efficacy. The fuck is that about?

[Jibartik]

It's just ignorant to say that people dont care about flu deaths because they want people to wear masks and social distance during a pandemic.

How many times have we had to fight for science to have its right to even study new forms of medicine from god fearing conservatives in the goverment, and now they try to act like this whole time we haven't cared about people around the world dying of the flu.

My whole life has been a fight against the conservatives of America to prevent foreign aid and now those same people try to say that I personally dont care about those deaths.

[Jibartik]

Castle, try and tell me that's not a good counter argument :mad:

[Castle2.0]

I SUPPORT AID TO FOREIGN COUNTRIES. FOOD NOT BOMBS YOU BIG DERP. Signal received.


Do believe in a government-enforced mask mandate due to a virus?
Do you believe the government should shutdown restaurants, theatres, bars, hotels, and other places due to a virus?
How many cases or deaths must happen due to a virus for you to support the above 2 measures?


If you do support the above 2 measures of forced-masks and forced-lockdowns for COVID, why didn't you support them for flu? Are 600,000 deaths acceptable, but 1M*** are not?

I'm not saying you don't care - I'm just saying the people who support forced-masks and forced-lockdowns for COVID but not flu, are intellectually inconsistent.

[douglas1999]

Guys! Guys! Are you not aware that .02% danger is very very bad? Are you not aware that all of the people who will be made destitute and die are totally worth it to make sure I never have to admit I was maybe wrong about something?

Medical resources are zero sum, which is the exact rationale for the lockdowns. And I agree with that. However, as time passed and we learned more about the nature of this virus, it made less and less sense to divert resources toward fighting it. When you divert resources to focus on covid, you also reduce resources for treating cancer, diabetes, heart failure. If it had the infection\death rate of ebola, sure, it makes sense. When it has an average morbitity of less than 1%, maybe it's something we simply have to accept?

The argument isn't to take no precautions and pretend it doesn't exist, it's to weigh the net costs and benefits of the approach we're taking. It's very dishonest to point fingers about "politicizing" it without grappling with these realities. We did not do this for sars-cov-1, we did not do this for h1n1. We do not do this for a particularly bad flu season. Covid-19 is not just magically worse in some way when you look at the available data. You have to justify the collateral societal effects of responding in this way to it if you expect anyone to take you seriously going forward.

[douglas1999]

(In before "trumtard don't understand nuthin" and "not surprised you don't understand nuthin" and "hehe typical right wing bozo who i hope dies from covid cause i'm a ghoulish vulture")

[Jibartik]

Signal received.


Do believe in a government-enforced mask mandate due to a virus?
Do you believe the government should shutdown restaurants, theatres, bars, hotels, and other places due to a virus?
How many cases or deaths must happen due to a virus for you to support the above 2 measures?


If you do support the above 2 measures of forced-masks and forced-lockdowns for COVID, why didn't you support them for flu? Are 600,000 deaths acceptable, but 1M*** is not?

I'm not saying you don't care - I'm just saying the people who support forced-masks and forced-lockdowns for COVID, but not flu are intellectually inconsistent.

1. I believe that yes if a law is required to get people to wear masks, issue them a ticket. That does not mean I encourage the use of physical force so lets not think me believing that issuing a ticket for not wearing a mask, during the pandemic!, being ok means I believe in goostepping nazi robocops. (same way nobody thought staying inside when the bostom bomber was on the run meant they thought the goverment should now permantly be martial law)
2. I believe that was the best course of action at the time sure, but that doesn't mean I think we should be welding people inside. And there are better course of actions we can do now, within reason. I hate being stuck inside too!
3. It had to be preventable. The Covid virus is not a natural occurring virus, and if we can contain it we can kill it and prevent a lot of deaths. The flu also doesnt kill nearly as many, if as many people that got the flu to = 600k deaths, got covid it would be like 6 million deaths.

Ok I hope this helps!

[Castle2.0]

1. Noted.
2. Noted.

3. The Covid virus is not a natural occurring virus Actually, it naturally occurs in bats. Maybe it was derived from bats then engineered in a lab, but it most definitely naturally occurs in bats. Interestingly enough, in November of 2019 a Chinese lab was looking for scientists for their lab to specifically study corona virus immunity in bats. I read the site itself in Chinese. Very interesting. Maybe the chicom govt knew about the virus infecting the populace and was trying to recruit more talent to find an answer?

In either case, it's like H1N1, flu, and most viruses we run into in that, yes, it occurs naturally.

and if we can contain it we can kill it and prevent a lot of deaths. The flu also doesnt kill nearly as many, if as many people that got the flu to = 600k deaths, got covid it would be like 6 million deaths. Corona virus is not going away. We still have people getting H1N1. Zero is an impossible number for this So pursuing 0 as a standard is foolish. Example: "Until we reach zero, we must blahblahblah." Bad idea.

The flu also doesnt kill nearly as many, if as many people that got the flu to = 600k deaths, got covid it would be like 6 million deaths. I knew COVID IFR (infection fatalty rate) was bogus from the beginning.

IFR = DEATHS / INFECTIONS.

I'll let others debate how many REAL deaths due to COVID, but we can all agree the IFR (especially months ago) was WAY overblown. We had NO idea how widepsread it ways.

My favorite line of thinking from the media was this "It's going everywhere! Be afraid!" Ok, so we should expect a lot of infections, but then they say "It's so deadly! Be afraid!" Deadly as in many deaths per infection and the # of infections they used were simply the # of positive tests when testing wasn't widespread.

Pretty much, they want you to think infections are high when saying how infectious it is, but infections are low when they talk about how deadly it is lol (DEATHS/INFECTIONS.)

Basic math shows their base bias. Stupid people.

So back to my point.

YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE ACTUALLY HAVE GOTTEN COVID

What we do know is the more testing we do, the more we see widespread asymptomatic infections. What does this mean? The virus is very widespread and a lots less deadly than we initially thought.

Let's say your assumption is true that masks, lockdown, whatever measures would prevent "a lot of deaths." Then wouldn't it reason that we could cut down the 600,000 flu deaths every year by a substantial margin using the measures you support for COVID?

Which returns to my original question:

If you do support forced-masks and forced-lockdowns for COVID, why didn't you support them for flu? Could we not cut down the 600,000 annual deaths by a significant factor using these measures? If so, why not use them?

When you answer this question, you will mostly likely have answered my question to why I am against forced masks and forced lockdowns, even if I wear masks and practice social distancing myself - I was doing this stuff before it was even politically fashionable.

[hobart]

(In before "trumtard don't understand nuthin" and "not surprised you don't understand nuthin" and "hehe typical right wing bozo who i hope dies from covid cause i'm a ghoulish vulture")

Self-awareness is the one the the criteria for sentience. Grats.

[Jibartik]

1. Noted.
2. Noted.

Actually, it naturally occurs in bats. Maybe it was derived from bats then engineered in a lab, but it most definitely naturally occurs in bats. Interestingly enough, in November of 2019 a Chinese lab was looking for scientists for their lab to specifically study corona virus immunity in bats. I read the site itself in Chinese. Very interesting. Maybe the chicom govt knew about the virus infecting the populace and was trying to recruit more talent to find an answer?

In either case, it's like H1N1, flu, and most viruses we run into in that, yes, it occurs naturally.

Corona virus is not going away. We still have people getting H1N1. Zero is an impossible number for this So pursuing 0 as a standard is foolish. Example: "Until we reach zero, we must blahblahblah." Bad idea.

I knew COVID IFR (infection fatalty rate) was bogus from the beginning.

IFR = DEATHS / INFECTIONS.

I'll let others debate how many REAL deaths due to COVID, but we can all agree the IFR (especially months ago) was WAY overblown. We had NO idea how widepsread it ways.

My favorite line of thinking from the media was this "It's going everywhere! Be afraid!" Ok, so we should expect a lot of infections, but then they say "It's so deadly! Be afraid!" Deadly as in many deaths per infection and the # of infections they used were simply the # of positive tests when testing wasn't widespread.

Pretty much, they want you to think infections are high when saying how infectious it is, but infections are low when they talk about how deadly it is lol (DEATHS/INFECTIONS.)

Basic math shows their base bias. Stupid people.

So back to my point.

YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE ACTUALLY HAVE GOTTEN COVID

What we do know is the more testing we do, the more we see widespread asymptomatic infections. What does this mean? The virus is very widespread and a lots less deadly than we initially thought.

Let's say your assumption is true that masks, lockdown, whatever measures would prevent "a lot of deaths." Then wouldn't it reason that we could cut down the 600,000 flu deaths every year by a substantial margin using the measures you support for COVID?

Which returns to my original question:

If you do support forced-masks and forced-lockdowns for COVID, why didn't you support them for flu? Could we not cut down the 600,000 annual deaths by a significant factor using these measures? If so, why not use them?

When you answer this question, you will mostly likely have answered my question to why I am against forced masks and forced lockdowns, even if I wear masks and practice social distancing myself - I was doing this stuff before it was even politically fashionable.

Castle, I'm sorry but your study you just made up right now, is less credible than the studies I am reading.

You are the one making assumptions, every single data point I know about is based off of credible science. But if you think everything that I believe is fake and gay then I cant change that.

Youve made a lot of arguments ITT based off of what you "think" peopls thoughts are. What "makes sense"... But making sense doesn't mean true.

I very clearly answered your question:

3. It had to be preventable. The Covid virus is not a natural occurring virus, and if we can contain it we can kill it and prevent a lot of deaths. The flu also doesnt kill nearly as many, if as many people that got the flu to = 600k deaths, got covid it would be like 6 million deaths.

edit: (coming from bats does not mean its naturally occurring)

Not knowing things like this, and then trying to use science and logic just proves that your entire thesis is made up!

Things that seem logical, usually are not reality. Because reality is illogical.

Wear a mask, be a good citizen, be a good neighbor, make our country great!

[Castle2.0]

"You make stuff up. I don't."

Noted.

Wear a mask, be a good citizen, be a good neighbor, make our country great! I can't. Those sound like logical arguments but "reality is illogical."

Can you answer the simple question?

If you do support forced-masks and forced-lockdowns for COVID, why didn't you support them for flu? Could we not cut down the 600,000 annual deaths by a significant factor using these measures? If so, why not use them?

P.S. Pretzel, feel free to share if you have an answer ;)

[Jibartik]

No im not trying to convince you of false numbers, are you are using false numbrs to try to convince me of stuff that you're very clearly making up ITT. You claim to read the minds of people who disagree with you.

Covid is preventable, it can be prevented.

Stop trying to use your made up 600k number that takes every single ellement of earth out of context, to win an argument.

I could just as easily pick a 250k deaths by flu year to say the flu klls 250k people a year.

The flu killing 200-600k people per year does not average 600k people. Ergo, your data is false and makes your arguments irrelevant.

Note that please. NOTE IT, everyone.

[Toad1]

covid cannot be prevented, we have no measure to control it

even disenfection is a big joke because half of the companies that sprung up have ineffective products and successful application is impossible and its too easy to contaminate even if successfully sanitized

masks do nothing

people are too dumb and completely dependant on getting their food from stores / plants and cant stay home anyway

the only hope is herd immunity, everyone has to get it at the same time

[Jibartik]

covid cannot be prevented, we have no measure to control it

This is incorrect.

If this were true you would be dead of ebola.

Containing virus's and disease is a very simple concept.

There are examples of this happening right now all around you.

masks do nothing

Masks do more than literally anything else anyone suggests. So of all positions you can have, this is the most wrong you can be.

people are too dumb and completely dependant on getting their food from stores / plants and cant stay home anyway

No people are not too weak to handle a pandmeic rationally.

Wrong, you're just being a troll, and trump encourages people like you to speak up.

the only hope is herd immunity, everyone has to get it at the same time

The only reason you even know that is because people heard someone on fox new say it.

The truth is heard immunity does not mean everyone just "get it" and we let god sort it out. Thats idiocy. That is not "heard immunity" FFS

its so frustreating to listen to people who listen to fox news talk about stuff like they know everyting and if you dont lsiten to fox news please know you are parroting their clearly false information and no other media outlet except for some facebook shares agree's.

AND THAT DOESNT MEAN ITS A LIBERAL CONSPIRACY

[Toad1]

ebola is no where near as contageous as covid

your symptoms appear much faster and you wont be able to give it to others for 2 weeks and not know you have it, which is why we have a covid problem

[Jibartik]

ebola is no where near as contageous as covid

your symptoms appear much faster and you wont be able to give it to others for 2 weeks and not know you have it, which is why we have a covid problem

Dude canada has 90% the infection and death rate, and that isnt because florida and north carolina have such an active worldwide economy :rolleyes:

[Toad1]

so 90% of the people in canada have died from covid?

[Jibartik]

so 90% of the people in canada have died from covid?

No. Sigh.

Ebola is a virus that is contained. That means that had we not contained it each time it breaks out it would spread all over the world.

Youll have the flu in 2025 but you wont have covid. It will die, like the spanish flu. Influenza is what you're thinking of and that mutates every year, like the cold, something covid is similar to but not the same exactly. But covid can be contained, we could have contained it (see nz for an almost perfect containment) and we could have at very least saved lives.

Ebola is well known in referece to containment, becase it's where we developed most of the modern practices. We even have a breakout that has been under containment for like 10 years. Which is why its a great example when it comes to containment practices. Covid, like many other viruses that exist on the 4th floor of the CDC basement are also "contained" and if you think we cant contain covid, you're being willfully ignorant. Of not only history, but the world around you, because compared to america, we could have contained 90% of our deaths and illnesses had it not been for trump encouraging people to go out and act like you are posting.

Edit: There are nations all over the world with no reported cases for recent weeks and a couple, months. That could have been us. But instead, we're entierly unique witht he highest infecton/death rate of any developed nation, and far higher than most 3rd world ones. It's pathetic.

[douglas1999]

No im not trying to convince you of false numbers, are you are using false numbrs to try to convince me of stuff that you're very clearly making up ITT. You claim to read the minds of people who disagree with you.

Covid is preventable, it can be prevented.

Stop trying to use your made up 600k number that takes every single ellement of earth out of context, to win an argument.

I could just as easily pick a 250k deaths by flu year to say the flu klls 250k people a year.

The flu killing 200-600k people per year does not average 600k people. Ergo, your data is false and makes your arguments irrelevant.

Note that please. NOTE IT, everyone.

The point is obviously that we do not respond to flu in this way, yet we are responding to covid in this way, when they have nearly identical fatality rates. Why, specifically, should we enforce masking (and I would also argue paranoid overzealous lockdowns, given the numerous collateral downsides of such lockdowns) for covid but not for the flu? The point of this question is to get you to interrogate your own logic. It's almost rhetorical but not quite. Pointing out that some number isn't the right number doesn't answer the question.

[Jibartik]

It is flatly wrong to say there is nearly identical death rates.

[Castle2.0]

The flu killing 200-600k people per year does not average 600k people. Ergo, your data is false and makes your arguments irrelevant. Lol.

"You chose the upper end of the range of the range of official numbers I am willing to accept. Therefore, your ENTIRE argument is wrong. AND I WIN THE ARGUMETN ERMERGERDH!!11!!!"

Okay, I'll update my question with the most up-to-date range - will you answer it? I think you either are missing my point or starting to see my point and aren't liking it because you have no answer.

Until recently, the World Health Organization (WHO) estimated the annual mortality burden of influenza to be 250,000 to 500,000 all-cause deaths globally; however, a 2017 study indicated a substantially higher mortality burden, at 290 000-650 000 influenza-associated deaths from respiratory causes alone, and a 2019 study estimated 99,000-200,000 deaths from lower respiratory tract infections directly caused by influenza. Here we revisit global and regional estimates of influenza mortality burden and explore mortality trends over time and geography.

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6815659/


If you do support forced-masks and forced-lockdowns for COVID, why didn't you support them for flu? Could we not cut down the 389,000 to 850,000 annual deaths by a significant factor using these measures? If so, why not use them?

Hope you can answer. Unless I have a dangling participle or something in my sentence that completely refutes my argument, that is.

[douglas1999]

It is flatly wrong to say there is nearly identical death rates.

Okay then, let's call them marginally different fatality rates. You still didn't answer the question.

Ebola is "contained" because it only spreads under highly specific conditions, but is very deadly. Covid spreads much more easily, but has a *much* lower fatality rate. Given these facts, why do you advocate for masking to prevent covid but not the flu?

[Jibartik]

I cant do this, this is a major step backwards if you think the whole world is all wrong and whatever it is that has given you this information is right.

I can, never, ever, ever, come to a common ground with you.

It is not remotely like the flu, its not even the same type of virus, its not even close, if you dont know that it's just one of the many points of context that are integral in understanding how virus's and containment works.

And if you believe what you just said then you dont even beleve in data. So I just cant ever, EVER be able to make any sense to you.

Ive made my arguments as clear as I can and if I tried to make them any clearer, it would be productive for onlyl one reason, to troll jibartik into ranting about something htat really hurts his opinion of people and his country.

I am not ok with you guys feeling the way you feel and stuff, I think its very bad. Im sorry but I have to go!

Good luck solving world hunger I'm sure you guys will lick it, because all you have to do is tell people not to care about it, because there is such thing as influenza.

RE: castle, I cant even get into it, i really cant, I made my point clear, I think your taking massive amounts of things out of context and if you didn't, and listened to what I said you would understand why i dont believe in forced mandates for flu virus's

Edit Edit: (I really am so mad im not gonna lie) :mad:

Those documents you link actually support my argument, you're literally chosing the high yeild number and saying its "the average." of those numbers

The average is much more like 250k yearlly ok?

Do you not understand covid is not a new flu that will come around every year?? by containing it for 2 years we dont have to contain it anymore.

Im not saying to do that, and then, now lets all remove all our freedoms so nobody ever dies again.

How could you be so obtuse to even consider that is a logical comparison????

DO YOU NOT GET THAT??

Why do I have to be Draconian OR anarchist to you????????

[Castle2.0]

The average is much more like 250k yearlly ok? Incorrect.

There are two things they mention:

"290,000-650,000 influenza-associated deaths from respiratory causes alone"
"99,000-200,000 deaths from lower respiratory tract infections directly caused by influenza"


That's 290,000 + 99,000 for the lower end, and 650,000 + 200,000 for the upper end.

Either you believe we should take these measures for flu or not.

If so, why? If not, why not?

Pretzel, feel free to answer. ANYONE who has been for forced mask mandates and force lockdowns feel free to answer.

The most telling fact so far is your refusal to answer these simple questions.

If you do support forced-masks and forced-lockdowns for COVID, why didn't you support them for flu? Could we not cut down the 389,000 to 850,000 annual deaths by a significant factor using these measures? If so, why not use them?

[Jibartik]

Incorrect.

There are two things they mention:

290 000-650 000 influenza-associated deaths from respiratory causes alone
99,000-200,000 deaths from lower respiratory tract infections directly caused by influenza


That's 290,000 + 99,000 for the lower end, and 650,000 + 200,000 for the upper end.



Either you believe we should take these measures for flu or not.

If so, why? If not, why not?

Pretzel, feel free to answer. ANYONE who has been for forced mask mandates and force lockdowns feel free to answer.

The most telling fact so far is your refusal to answer these simple questions.

If you do support forced-masks and forced-lockdowns for COVID, why didn't you support them for flu? Could we not cut down the 389,000 to 850,000 annual deaths by a significant factor using these measures? If so, why not use them?

Look, you're trying to do hand wavey shit and tossing a lot of numbers around but im saying the numbers are even irrelevant when it comes to flu/covid

not to mention the death rate of the flu ranges from VERY HIGH to very low year by year, and its an entierly different flu that cant be contained and all the other things that im repeating myself again and again about that you are IGNORING!

Flu is different, its not containable, covid is a different virus all together, it is containable. There will be a vaccine!

JUST LIKE YOU SAY TRUMP IS NOT A NAZI and his supporters are not racists : I do not want to enforce masks ,and new overlords to protect us from the flu, and also remove cars, and also put a police officer in every house to prevent accidents, and take away free will, just because I want to contain COVID for 2 years while we develop a vaccine!!!!

[Jibartik]

Me: we should spend more money on education
Anti: There are no schools in some countries, so since you clearlyl dont want to enforce everyone mandating volunteer work at schools all around the world, you cant possibly want schools in america.

All im saying is we could have reduced deaths by not acting like YOLO was the only way to live, and we had someone at the helm that thought about how people would want to open up the economy rather than just telling them to do it.

Im just saying its sad that we dont think that we blew it as badly as we did. That's all I think we should feel. Just a little bummed that we're this bad.

[Castle2.0]

Sorry mate, I have to "listen to the health experts"



“Eradication of microbial disease is a will-o’-the-wisp; pursuing it leads into a morass of hazy biological concepts and half truths.”

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3341977/


So you're saying we SHOULDN'T use the same lockdown measures because the two are VERY different?

On similarity v differences of Flu and Covid see: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/flu-vs-covid19.htm

Pretty darn similar.

How is COVID containable and flu is not? Was H1N1 containable? If so, why haven't we contained it? If it isn't, why is COVID any different?

[Castle2.0]

Me: we should spend more money on education
Anti: There are no schools in some countries, so since you clearlyl dont want to enforce everyone mandating volunteer work at schools all around the world, you cant possibly want schools in america. Me: Don't spend any more money on schools. It hasn't worked.

But to stay on topic... You are talking about allocating limited resources: money. That's not the case here. Social distancing, enforced masking, etc.

ADVOCACY isn't a limited resource. Why do you not SUPPORT (at 0 cost to you) these measures for flu?

[Castle2.0]

If you believe education should be free why not just saying ALL people EVERYWHERE deserve free education? To make such a statement costs you nothing. It shows you are consistent with your view.

I'm just asking if we should use these measures you say work and why not use them for flu?

Do they not work for flu? Will hand washing, social distancing, enforced masking, and economic shutdown, not save lives from the annual flu pandemic?

[Jibartik]

Sorry mate, I have to "listen to the health experts"



So you're saying we SHOULDN'T use the same lockdown measures because the two are VERY different?

On similarity v differences of Flu and Covid see: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/flu-vs-covid19.htm

Pretty darn similar.

How is COVID containable and flu is not? Was H1N1 containable? If so, why haven't we contained it? If it isn't, why is COVID any different?

Flu epidemics reoccur every year because of the the way the virus is built and how it interacts with the human immune system. influenza's like best asset is its extremely fast ability to change (mutate) and that's why it's not containable.

Covid's best asset is its agility to live outside of the body and through some wide temp ranges. Its like the cocroach of virus's but, it put all its stats into Stamina, and not its ability to mutate, so if we can reduce the spread, so long that we can become immune to it or capture it in pockets where people are highly immune to it and it dies, without an excess # of people dying.

We win.

But we're at containing it at this point, without a MASSIVE number of people dying, because we lost control around feb/march and any hope of there just being 50-60k deaths, which would have been best case scenario IMO.

Edit: btw I totally do wish education could be excellent and free everywhere hehe and I do hope we can reduce flu deaths by trying to support the science as best as I can and by donating and volunteering! But that's not enforced and I dont think we should enforce that!

[douglas1999]

Look, you're trying to do hand wavey shit and tossing a lot of numbers around but im saying the numbers are even irrelevant when it comes to flu/covid

not to mention the death rate of the flu ranges from VERY HIGH to very low year by year, and its an entierly different flu that cant be contained and all the other things that im repeating myself again and again about that you are IGNORING!

Flu is different, its not containable, covid is a different virus all together, it is containable. There will be a vaccine!

JUST LIKE YOU SAY TRUMP IS NOT A NAZI and his supporters are not racists : I do not want to enforce masks ,and new overlords to protect us from the flu, and also remove cars, and also put a police officer in every house to prevent accidents, and take away free will, just because I want to contain COVID for 2 years while we develop a vaccine!!!!

Relax I'm getting your point that a virus being "containable" vs. a virus not being containable matters, because if you can contain one then of course less people end up dying. So the relevant factor for you is obviously containability.

What authoritative body has said that sars-cov-2 is "containable" though? It spread incredibly rapidly. It's highly contagious, ebola is not. In fact, almost everyone on the planet will inevitably be infected by it at some point. Thankfully, the disease it causes (covid-19) is not highly fatal, at all. I'm seriously not trying to troll you, I'm just trying to communicate clearly.

[Castle2.0]

The virus A(H1N1), which causes what was commonly referred to in the past as "swine flu", caused a flu pandemic in 2009. Since then, this virus has continued to circulate in people in Europe and elsewhere, so that it is now a seasonal human flu virus.

Source: https://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/communicable-diseases/influenza/data-and-statistics/seasonal-influenza-ah1n1-key-issues



The H1N1 virus that caused that pandemic is now a regular human flu virus and continues to circulate seasonally worldwide.

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/updates/080709.htm


My prediction about COVID... You guessed it.

[Jibartik]

What authoritative body has said that sars-cov-2 is "containable" though? It spread incredibly rapidly. It's highly contagious, ebola is not. In fact, almost everyone on the planet will inevitably be infected by it at some point. Thankfully, the disease it causes (covid-19) is not highly fatal, at all. I'm seriously not trying to troll you, I'm just trying to communicate clearly.

No authority but this is what the best minds on the earth are doing their best to determine the threat that changes daily, at the top, there are no links to read or articles to share, there is just results of tests!

But covid's make up makes it much more containable than influenza.

Re: not fatal at all? That is a strange way to look at something that is fatal and avoidable. Its like a smoker's rationalization about cancer rates.

Also its entiearly untrue that everyone will be infected, did you know only 20% of earth got the spanish flu?

My prediction about COVID... You guessed it.

So wait what are you saying here? Im not sure Im following you. Are you saying that covid will become a regular thing?

I wont say that wont happen, but I will say it could be prevented.

Covid does have the ability to mutate, like all viruses, but its a when/if/how concern.

idk, you're going to have to be more specific, Im not sure I follow you.

[Castle2.0]

I wont say that wont happen, but I will say it could be prevented. Sorry man, it's too late.

I know you're a compassionate guy. I know you hate COVID just like me. It's just too late. It's also not the end of the world. IFR is much lower than initially thought and we'll have a vaccine in time.

I predict, just like H1N1, it will be seasonal BUT, also a part of the seasonal flu shot - I hope every one of my elf pals gets every season - it helps.

My point is simply, we need to let people decide the level of precaution they want to take. The people most likely to die from flu are the same people most likely to die from COVID. We need to protect those people - let the rest of us young healthy people go to work and face the infinitesimal small chance of death. The same thing we do every day we get into a car and get on the highway.

Stay safe friends, but also stay fearless.

[waltjig]

None of this matters. Think for a minute about what could be done if everyone realized that people have differing opinions, and then just moved on. What we should be doing is banding together to stop paying income tax. Get out of the wheel sheeple

[Jibartik]

Sorry man, it's too late.

I know you're a compassionate guy. I know you hate COVID just like me. It's just too late. It's also not the end of the world. IFR is much lower than initially thought and we'll have a vaccine in time.

I predict, just like H1N1, it will be seasonal BUT, also a part of the seasonal flu shot - I hope every one of my elf pals gets every season - it helps.

My point is simply, we need to let people decide the level of precaution they want to take. The people most likely to die from flu are the same people most likely to die from COVID. We need to protect those people - let the rest of us young healthy people go to work and face the infinitesimal small chance of death. The same thing we do every day we get into a car and get on the highway.

Stay safe friends, but also stay fearless.

Agree about too late, in feb I said "worst case scenario is 300k deaths and a country that is too apathetic to understand why that is bad"

And we're basically at my worse case scenario.

All I'm saying is, worst case scenario was achieved because of Trump and his ongoing message about the virus that is embraced by many people that use misrepresented information to support him, and I hold him accountable. He made a choice and he went all in and people died as a result and Im not going to not call a spade a spade.

Edit: But it's not to late to save a life by casually wearing a mask until we can roll out a vaccine, or until the vast investments being made in doing so dry up because we realize we cannot. And you can say you're not arguing not to, but you're arguing not to!

As for the second wave, just put the mask on and pray to god that we can get a vaccine out into peoples arms soon. Pray that we can maintain a better containment should it ever rear its head again. Help us get better at what worked and avoid what didn't.

or be a hater and immoral IMO, and you can think im a coward because I think that, makes no diff to me, just like it makes no diff to you that I think you're being immoral :)

[JackofSpade]

Sorry mate, I have to "listen to the health experts"



So you're saying we SHOULDN'T use the same lockdown measures because the two are VERY different?

On similarity v differences of Flu and Covid see: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/flu-vs-covid19.htm

Pretty darn similar.

How is COVID containable and flu is not? Was H1N1 containable? If so, why haven't we contained it? If it isn't, why is COVID any different?

Did you not read the article you linked there, or do you have difficulties with reading comprehension? The differences are listed very clearly and simply.

[douglas1999]

Did you not read the article you linked there, or do you have difficulties with reading comprehension? The differences are listed very clearly and simply.

The differences amount to "One is bad, and the other is slightly more bad". The question, yet again, is how does this justify the measures being taken? How do you rationalize away the devastating economic impact of widespread lockdowns and the countless lives affected by them? Why shouldn't we take the same measures to prevent, literally any other disease? The elderly are particularly susceptible to the common cold as well. It's an incredibly simple question. This is what is frustrating people. Diseases emerge, we do not shut down nearly the entirety of the world until we have a vaccine for them, especially when vaccines (including the flu vaccine btw) are not even remotely close to 100% effective.

[Jibartik]

The differences amount to "One is bad, and the other is slightly more bad". The question, yet again, is how does this justify the measures being taken? How do you rationalize away the devastating economic impact of widespread lockdowns and the countless lives affected by them? Why shouldn't we take the same measures to prevent, literally any other disease? The elderly are particularly susceptible to the common cold as well. It's an incredibly simple question. This is what is frustrating people. Diseases emerge, we do not shut down nearly the entirety of the world until we have a vaccine for them, especially when vaccines (including the flu vaccine btw) are not even remotely close to 100% effective.

Id say that the problem is being exaserbated by people saying we should give up, rather than saying hey, 6-8 more months, we'll have a clear roadmap and know what our situatino is with the vaccine.

Your argument, is because you've had enough, that we should all just give up. That just aint positive. Just aint right.

If you care about the impact this has on society, help us work through it, dont nay say anything we do to try to. That's making it worse, that's the point of my whole argument. Before long I wont hold trump culpable ill hold people and maybe by then we'll have that draconian communist future you're afraid of and all your words online are going to put you into organ harvesting camps. :p

So shadap an wear a mask, help people out by supporting your neighbors during this tough time, so we dont decend into dystopia and get back to soccer games!

Im going to break down your questions, even though answered them already in this thread, because you say that people not explaining this to you is what is so frustrating:

How do you rationalize away the devastating economic impact of widespread lockdowns and the countless lives affected by them?

I dont, I argue that trump made decisions that caused it and if we went at it like other countries instead of like he said we should, we wouldn't have had as bad of an impact.

Looking back we could have had huge freezes on the economy to make people safe but he chose not to do that because he was afraid of panics, and lied and told people it would be over by summer, so there was no need, and here we are, looking at a year where we definitely could have and would be better off with massive freezes on the economy, mortgages, and rent. Let alone stimulus for the working class, or schools?? OR VOTING?? From where I stand it looks like he's doing it all on purpose but I refuse to believe in conspiracy theory.

Why shouldn't we take the same measures to prevent, literally any other disease?

1. rate of infection
2. death rate
3. extremely slow mutation rate

"literally any other disease" as you put it, 99.9999999999% of the time does not have a high rate of infection, a high death rate, and an extremely slow mutation rate. (if covid did not have 3, we would already be at end of days right now warring over what's left of food lol)

The elderly are particularly susceptible to the common cold as well.

The cold mutates at an extremely fast rate, trying to contain it would be like trying to breathe under water, you suggesting because we can stop aids, that we should try to breathe under water?

It's an incredibly simple question. This is what is frustrating people.

Simple quedsiton, simple answer:

1. infection rate
2. death rate
3. mutation rate

Diseases emerge, we do not shut down nearly the entirety of the world until we have a vaccine for them, especially when vaccines (including the flu vaccine btw) are not even remotely close to 100% effective.

The flu vaccine is not effective because of the:

3. mutation rate

other viruses do not have a high:

1. infection rate

So we dont need to do what were doing for covid.

Covid's mutation rate, indicates that a vaccine will be usable, against the 1 type of mutation we've seen, and any future ones, again because of the min max of real life, the virus does not have the cellular structure to mutate fast enough to become immune to vaccinations. (that is un proven but most likely, and will be proven within the next year)

Im not blowing smoke up your ass. This isnt fake news liberal propaganda to make us all wear head scarves.

There is a reason the world is shutting down over this, and its not because we're all crazy!

Lastly, can someone who thinks we should not try and should just not even care bout covid deaths, explain to me how your version of society is better?

[Castle2.0]

BTW, ~40% of the US is obese.

Obesity is a comorbidity of COVID.

I suspect the IFR in US is HIGHER than many countries for this reason alone.

And of course, it's Donald Trump's fault so many Americans are suddenly overweight from 2016-2020 when this phenomenon was discovered.

I suggest required masking around feeding time for Americans to reduce their food intake. Make it nationwade.

[Jibartik]

BTW, ~40% of the US is obese.

Obesity is a comorbidity of COVID.

I suspect the IFR in US is HIGHER than many countries for this reason alone.

And of course, it's Donald Trump's fault so many Americans are suddenly overweight from 2016-2020 when this phenomenon was discovered.

I suggest required masking around feeding time for Americans to reduce their food intake. Make it nationwade.

It's only 8% higher than Canada and 4% higher than mexico :) It isnt obesity's fault!

Edit: Woah I just wanted to confirm and TIL New Zeeland is like right behind us with obesity and they have like 1 covid death :P

But they have closed borders and that is something dems would have not been ok with and Id be shaking my fist at them about that if they were in charge hehe

Edit edit: Also trump is obease and he'll be fine.

[Nocht]

OP is 100% on point.

[7thGate]

If you can't do anything about a disease other than live with it, you have to make a choice between deciding to live your life and risking death or hiding away. Back in the early 1900's, measles was about as fatal as COVID is now and it was so contagious basically everyone just had to endure it as a rite of passage to be a living adult. Go back further, and you had to fight off multiple deadly diseases to make it to adulthood.

There wasn't really anything you could do about it, so people just lived with it or not depending on how it went. If we didn't know how to make vaccines, then this whole process makes no sense and we should just get it over with, get infected, most of us fight it off and then we go on with out lives mourning the dead.

But we do know how to make vaccines. There's multiple active vaccines developed that are undergoing testing right now. Someone is going to build a functional vaccine and this disease is going to get shut down hard by science. What we need to not do is infect the whole world before we get to that point.

Because you're right, this isn't actually that bad in terms of loss of life by comparison to something like smoking. But its not that bad because people are actively fighting it with social distancing, masks and other measures instead of ignoring it, and its already worse than the flu by a good measure. We ignore this completely and its going to blow up; you get a 3% fatality rate on the whole world, you're going to kill 250 million people. Let's not do that when we can just take some precautions, validate that one of the vaccines works and is safe, immunize, then move on.

[douglas1999]

If you can't do anything about a disease other than live with it, you have to make a choice between deciding to live your life and risking death or hiding away. Back in the early 1900's, measles was about as fatal as COVID is now and it was so contagious basically everyone just had to endure it as a rite of passage to be a living adult. Go back further, and you had to fight off multiple deadly diseases to make it to adulthood.

There wasn't really anything you could do about it, so people just lived with it or not depending on how it went. If we didn't know how to make vaccines, then this whole process makes no sense and we should just get it over with, get infected, most of us fight it off and then we go on with out lives mourning the dead.

But we do know how to make vaccines. There's multiple active vaccines developed that are undergoing testing right now. Someone is going to build a functional vaccine and this disease is going to get shut down hard by science. What we need to not do is infect the whole world before we get to that point.

Because you're right, this isn't actually that bad in terms of loss of life by comparison to something like smoking. But its not that bad because people are actively fighting it with social distancing, masks and other measures instead of ignoring it, and its already worse than the flu by a good measure. We ignore this completely and its going to blow up; you get a 3% fatality rate on the whole world, you're going to kill 250 million people. Let's not do that when we can just take some precautions, validate that one of the vaccines works and is safe, immunize, then move on.

Not everyone has the luxury of waiting for a vaccine. That's the whole objection to lockdowns. I don't give a shit about wearing a mask, it doesn't bother me at all, I care about the collateral effects of the drastic measures that have been put in place. They made sense for about the first month, it's a novel virus that we did not yet understand. 7 months later, we understand it much better and know that it is overwhelmingly non-fatal.

Other people are dying from other things now at higher rates because so many healthcare resources have been allocated to fight covid-19. Many, many businesses that people worked hard to build are shuttered for good. Alcoholism is way up, suicides are going way up. People are dying as a result of this virus without even being infected by it. That's the point.

Vaccines also are not just guaranteed magic medicine. Many vaccines need to be re-administered anually to achieve a majority efficacy, and even the common flu vaccine only provides about 70% protection. These restrictions would make sense on balance if it were ebola that were spreading like wildfire. A slightly worse flu does not warrant these measures.

[Trexller]

OP is 100% on point.

[Castle2.0]

Worth a read: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html#box

Best Current Estimate from CDC of COVID IFR

COVID Infection Fatality Rate (if you get it, what is your chance of dying)
0-19 years: 0.00003
20-49 years: 0.0002
50-69 years: 0.005
70+ years: 0.054

Then compare it to flu IFR by age range from https://www.statista.com/statistics/1127799/influenza-us-mortality-rate-by-age-group/

If 1 million school kids get COVID, 30 will die.
If 1 million school kids get Flu, 10 will die

If every single school aged child (56M total) in America got COVID, 1680 would die.
If every single school aged child (56M total) in America got Flu, 560 would die.

OPEN SCHOOLS!

If 1 million prime age working people (20-49) got COVID, 200 will die.
If 1 million prime age working people (20-49) got Flu, 20 will die.

If every single prime age working person (~120M total) got COVID, 24,000 will die.
If every single prime age working person (~120M total) got Flu, 2,400 will die.

OPEN BUSINESSES!

38,000 people die every year in car accidents, yet we still drive cars? Absolute worst POSSIBLE case scenario (i.e. everyone gets it) of opening schools and businesses is less deaths than people who die in car accidents annually.

The people that are dying are old and have comorbidities. So let's protect the elderly and those with comorbidities. This comes down to the local level of how people run retirement homes and individual decisions of at-risk people.

Pretty straight forward.

But hey... if all the schoolkids and working people get it, won't we have herd immunity? Food for thought. We'll still have 300,000 dying every year of obesity and 38,000 from cars, but much lower COVID deaths.

[GinnasP99]

https://imgur.com/HRoXLVa.jpg
Might seem harsh, but lots of humans dying (i.e. the total population of Earth going DOWN) is a GOOD thing. There's only so much chicken and fresh water to go around.

[Jibartik]

Worth a read: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html#box

Best Current Estimate from CDC of COVID IFR


Then compare it to flu IFR by age range from https://www.statista.com/statistics/1127799/influenza-us-mortality-rate-by-age-group/

If 1 million school kids get COVID, 30 will die.
If 1 million school kids get Flu, 10 will die

If every single school aged child (56M total) in America got COVID, 1680 would die.
If every single school aged child (56M total) in America got Flu, 560 would die.

OPEN SCHOOLS!

If 1 million prime age working people (20-49) got COVID, 200 will die.
If 1 million prime age working people (20-49) got Flu, 20 will die.

If every single prime age working person (~120M total) got COVID, 24,000 will die.
If every single prime age working person (~120M total) got Flu, 2,400 will die.

OPEN BUSINESSES!

38,000 people die every year in car accidents, yet we still drive cars? Absolute worst POSSIBLE case scenario (i.e. everyone gets it) of opening schools and businesses is less deaths than people who die in car accidents annually.

The people that are dying are old and have comorbidities. So let's protect the elderly and those with comorbidities. This comes down to the local level of how people run retirement homes and individual decisions of at-risk people.

Pretty straight forward.

But hey... if all the schoolkids and working people get it, won't we have herd immunity? Food for thought. We'll still have 300,000 dying every year of obesity and 38,000 from cars, but much lower COVID deaths.

I cant believe that you think you're going to blow the lid off this conspiracy by counting up stuff from articles on an elf sim forum.

edit: ugh i gotta edit, it what part of chosing to be obease is one thing, but you walking by me coughing like an asshole, is not my choice? and if you say leaving my home is a choice, so help me god, you dont get to tell people when to stay home if the entire point of your argument is its not fair people get to say when you get to stay home! ARG you make me so mad castle!!!!

[Jibartik]

Might seem harsh, but lots of humans dying (i.e. the total population of Earth going DOWN) is a GOOD thing. There's only so much chicken and fresh water to go around.

Idk.. I never believed over population will be a problem. Personally.

There are a lot of sound arguments that seem to indicate that overpopulation isn't really an issue.

If you look at crowded epicenters in 3rd world countries it looks scary, but we're farm from that being a global image of earth, and by far I mean, like hundreds of years from then. Like, many many many many generations. But by then we'll be over populating mars!

And idk with genetic engineering we'll be making rice that has as much nutritional value as a full meal and feed the world.

It's gonna be like startrek. Not the good utopia TNG one, but the new picard and discovery crappy ones, where everyone vapes and drinks, and swears, and has a bad attitude, but it's still startrek.

So personally, I dont overpop is really the spooky beast people like to make it out to be.

I could be wrong though, I'm just saying me personally, I'm dubious.

Sidenote: Im literally watching a documentary from 1977 about how the end of days is immenent and its all in prophecy and its hosted by Orsen Wells. And its like, lol this is literally the same stuff everyone says now and none of what they're saying happened. https://youtu.be/HDnOzycaHpM

Right now orsen wells is like "The number of earthquakes that have increased in scale have increased 10 fold in the last 5 years." And this dude in a denum jumpsuit with a goldne star of david medalian over his hary chest is like "jesus said in the bible that events of weather will become stronger and become more frequent!"

And theyre talking about the 6 day war, and the temple of david and all the tension in the middle east, gasoline shortages, famine and deaths from natural disasters being record high.

lol I swear, I hear stuff like that and I just have to remember: We aint ever gonna stop, ever. We are going to march and toil, on and on for another 100,000 years, and you're gonna pay taxes to someone till the day you die if you lived to be a billion.

[Jibartik]

Hey castle, if you drive like a ahole you get arrested and if hit me I GET TO SUE you in court, so that counter argues your other car argument too!!!

So far everything you have said we have to do something to stop deaths for if we believe in social distancing and masks, we literally do a whole lot of shit to stop deaths for.

It's like that old line from the gun debate, "Cars are dangerous too, so what should we do make you get a license and register your car with the state?"

And like I said a million times, risk vs reward, the risk vs reward is worth the shut down for covid, but not for any thing else you suggsted.

Now that you know that is why can you stop pretending that is not why?

We can/could have/will stop covid, we had leadership that bungled it and now you're upset about the economy, well that was TRUMPS fault, his job was to make the economy stable, and he has made it chaos, with all this "its not real crap" people trying to open stores when they shouldn't, mortgages not frozen when they should be, stimulus not given to those that needed it most.

If you care about the "state of the economy" then why is all you've contributed is conspiracy theory? Its so transparent, if you're anti mask, you're just anti establishment, just like antivaxers are IMO

How do we fix the economy? "open it" what happens when people get sick "ignore them" that's litearly your plan? NO WAY!

[Nirgon]

Trump barely has any symptoms, this thing is a dud unless you're feeble. The retards can own the economic damage and add it to their pile of divisive/destructive merit badges.

[Castle2.0]

I cant believe that you think you're going to blow the lid off this conspiracy by counting up stuff from articles on an elf sim forum.

You ignore the numbers I posted directly from CDC/WHO and even make ad hominem attacks on the forum in which you yourself are participating, to say discussion is pointless.

Done.

I'll let my last post be my final. I think it says all that needs to be said. I'll leave it here again for anyone who is reasonable.

Worth a read: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html#box

Best Current Estimate from CDC of COVID IFR

Originally Posted by CDC
COVID Infection Fatality Rate (if you get it, what is your chance of dying)
0-19 years: 0.00003
20-49 years: 0.0002
50-69 years: 0.005
70+ years: 0.054

Then compare it to flu IFR by age range from https://www.statista.com/statistics/1127799/influenza-us-mortality-rate-by-age-group/

If 1 million school kids get COVID, 30 will die.
If 1 million school kids get Flu, 10 will die

If every single school aged child (56M total) in America got COVID, 1680 would die.
If every single school aged child (56M total) in America got Flu, 560 would die.

OPEN SCHOOLS!

If 1 million prime age working people (20-49) got COVID, 200 will die.
If 1 million prime age working people (20-49) got Flu, 20 will die.

If every single prime age working person (~120M total) got COVID, 24,000 will die.
If every single prime age working person (~120M total) got Flu, 2,400 will die.

OPEN BUSINESSES!

38,000 people die every year in car accidents, yet we still drive cars? Absolute worst POSSIBLE case scenario (i.e. everyone gets it) of opening schools and businesses is less deaths than people who die in car accidents annually.

The people that are dying are old and have comorbidities. So let's protect the elderly and those with comorbidities. This comes down to the local level of how people run retirement homes and individual decisions of at-risk people.

Pretty straight forward.

But hey... if all the schoolkids and working people get it, won't we have herd immunity? Food for thought. We'll still have 300,000 dying every year of obesity and 38,000 from cars, but much lower COVID deaths.

P.S. Still waiting on Prezetle's response. I guess he got cold feet when he didn't have an answer to why he doesn't support society-wide anti-COVID measures for flu as well.

My work here is done.

[7thGate]

That actually is a pretty interesting link. Its from a reputable source and contains some death rate information I haven't been able to find easily, so thank you for that. I especially appreciate the actual numbers for the flu comparison. The bars are not from the same brackets exactly so its hard to do a direct comparison without more digging, but it looks like COVID is about 10 times as fatal as the flu as a rough approximation.

I'm going to need to think on it and reconcile the ~3% observed death rate with the numbers here though. That implies almost half of our coronavirus cases were in the 74+ cohort, the number is being impacted by the higher % deaths in the 86+ age bracket, the IFR number is inaccurate or the COVID case/death count ratio isn't right.

[kjs86z]

If you believe "the numbers" verbatim your mental capacity is such that you would have been euthanized in other less merciful periods of human history.

[Jibartik]

Wow you made a thread in RnF because this one gave you clear answers that you ignored?

Crying about ad hominem attacks ITT because I eviscerated your anecdotal arguments? Then you post on page 9 the same opinion you had in the OP because you lack comprehension?

And you act like YOU were the one ad hominem attacked while you say lives dont matter and obese people should die HAHAHAHA you cry baby hypocrite. I'm sorry I hurt your feewings by explaining to you how influenza and covid works. Telling you its "dumb" to google an article, add up numbers you found on it, without even understanding the difference between influenza and covid, and then try to use that as a science based argument is not ad homenem.

If your will is so weak you cant even discuss how people are hypocrites and idiots for having empathy over covid deaths without being, "IM attacked IM attacked!" you better hope you dont get covid, because you're genetics are way to weak for it.

You say you care about the economy? What like we dont? No, you literally think it is my fault the stimulus checks went to the wealthy and not the poor, you think its because we say to wear masks - that nobody created a task force to figure out how to best integrate people back into the economy in march. You think it's our fault that the plan to open the schools was to say "open them!"... You think every country in the world, is united in a political ploy to make trump look bad. And you think that everyone in the world is having a mass hallucination. Its everyone but Trumps fault.

That is frickn crazy.

[Toad1]

Trump barely has any symptoms, this thing is a dud unless you're feeble. The retards can own the economic damage and add it to their pile of divisive/destructive merit badges.

it takes weeks to develop any symptoms and they only build and get worse, covid is very long term

He was given an immuno cocktail and antibodies day 1

i was given nothing and kept getting worse and worse, i had symptoms for 4 months

The reason people die is covid continues to build in your bodies and your immune system cant fight it fast enough

i am very healthy , eat right and exercise daily , dont say feeble i promise thats not how it works

[Jibartik]

I have until exactly trump is ok enough to put on a tie and go back to the white house, to bash on anti maskers. Once that happens, they will put him in the white house again and he will officially become the second coming of jesus to them and being pro mask will soon become illegal probably! So Im trying to get it out of my system.

Trump is getting a huge amount of support and will surely survive. And that will give all his supporters the ammo they need to be like "see at my ZOOM care center id be fine TOO!"

lmao were doomed.

[reznor_]

“Look I got it and I was ok!” - Trump.


Yes, and you got experimental drugs and the best health care possible. The average person doesn’t get the same treatment and care you do. He can fuck right off. 99% of us don’t get to go to a hospital as a “preventative step”.

I try and hope for the best and that maybe his tone on covid will change, but for some reason I feel like I’ll be disappointed.

[reznor_]

this thing is a dud unless you're feeble.

Wrong. People who were perfectly healthy with no comorbidity have gotten covid and died.

We still don’t know the long term effects. Normies believe that science states 1 thing and never changes again. Wrong. Science and medicine are dynamic and change all the time based on new evidence. What’s wrong with taking precautions? If this had been handled correctly from the start, we’d see a much different outcome right now. And our economy would be better off. For the record, I agreed with Trump closing borders, he just didn’t close them all and not soon enough. But his overall response was totally pathetic.

[Jibartik]

I try and hope for the best and that maybe his tone on covid will change, but for some reason I feel like I’ll be disappointed.

Revelation 13:3 One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast.

Kiss your ass goodbye when he gets back to work. :D

[reznor_]

Revelation 13:3 One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast.

Kiss your ass goodbye when he gets back to work. :D

It appears I was wrong as he is now headed back to the White House and says covid is “no big deal”. I am now praying for a relapse, and that Trump be intubated.

[Toad1]

He got antibodies dude, he can afford them

the other 300 million poor americans wont get them

[Pretzelle]

Herman Cain coronavirus timeline:

6/24: Attends Trump rally, maskless

7/2: Tests positive for Covid-19

7/10: Says he’s improving

7/15: Says his doctors seem happy

7/27: Says he’s really getting better

7/30: Dies

7/31: Ghost tweets that COVID was no big deal.

[Toad1]

Herman cain was cool, dont be a dick

[douglas1999]

Herman Cain coronavirus timeline:

6/24: Attends Trump rally, maskless

7/2: Tests positive for Covid-19

7/10: Says he’s improving

7/15: Says his doctors seem happy

7/27: Says he’s really getting better

7/30: Dies

7/31: Ghost tweets that COVID was no big deal.

Well checkmate guys, herman cain died. He only had a 96% chance of surviving based on his age group. He didn't survive though, he died. Therefor, covid is a mega big deal. Behold my understanding of statistics and anecdotes.

[Pretzelle]

Herman cain was cool, dont be a dick

Herman Cain was an asshole.

[Pretzelle]

Well checkmate guys, herman cain died. He only had a 96% chance of surviving based on his age group. He didn't survive though, he died. Therefor, covid is a mega big deal. Behold my understanding of statistics and anecdotes.

:confused: Are you okay?

[douglas1999]

Vulturing over the death of political opponents. This and more activities in my new book: What sane people do.

[Toad1]

replies in less then a minute

pops hormone pill and mad posts

Success!!

LOADING PLEASE WAIT

[Pretzelle]

Vulturing over the death of political opponents. This and more activities in my new book: What sane people do.

How is that vulturing? Was just giving you a timeline. Trump is leaving the hospital, supposedly. That was the same thing that Cain did and look how that worked out for him.

[Patriam1066]

replies in less then a minute

pops hormone pill and mad posts

Success!!

LOADING PLEASE WAIT

Lol’ed

[Woke Locc]

Well checkmate guys, herman cain died. He only had a 96% chance of surviving based on his age group. He didn't survive though, he died. Therefor, covid is a mega big deal. Behold my understanding of statistics and anecdotes.

96% for seniors doesn't sound right

[Castle2.0]

WHO: 10% of world's people may have been infected with virus

The head of emergencies at the World Health Organization said Monday the agency’s “best estimates” indicate roughly 1 in 10 people worldwide may have been infected by the coronavirus — more than 20 times the number of confirmed cases — and warned of a difficult period ahead.

Source: https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-archive-united-nations-54a3a5869c9ae4ee623497691e796083

We always knew real cases > confirmed cases. Now we have the "experts" telling us by how much: 20 times.

1 million deaths (according to experts) from 780 million infections (according to experts). That's an IFR of ~0.12% for COVID (basic math.)

Guess what Flu IFR is.... 0.10%

"LISTEN TO THE HEALTH EXPERTS!" right?

[Pretzelle]

96% for seniors doesn't sound right

It's not. It's a number he pulled out of his ass.

[Gwaihir]

Revelation 13:3 One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast.

Kiss your ass goodbye when he gets back to work. :D

I was more of a fan of the Barack Obama (Lightning from Heaven) is the clone of Akhenaten as Antichrist theory, but if either way, we only have a couple more years til Jesus comes back and pwns the Jagged. The safe bet is to assume theyre both the Antichrist, and act accordingly.

Amen.

[Pretzelle]

I was more of a fan of the Barack Obama (Lightning from Heaven) is the clone of Akhenaten as Antichrist theory, but if this is legit we only have a couple more years til Jesus comes back and pwns the Jagged.

Amen.

Yikes.

[Castle2.0]

Still waiting for Pretzel to condemn those who don't want to protect people from flu (with the same measures we use for COVID.)

The silence is deafening.

"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."
-Maya Banjofu

Did I do that right?

[Jibartik]

WHO: 10% of world's people may have been infected with virus



Source: https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-archive-united-nations-54a3a5869c9ae4ee623497691e796083

We always knew real cases > confirmed cases. Now we have the "experts" telling us by how much: 20 times.

1 million deaths (according to experts) from 780 million infections (according to experts). That's an IFR of ~0.12% for COVID (basic math.)

Guess what Flu IFR is.... 0.10%

"LISTEN TO THE HEALTH EXPERTS!" right?

What is your point here?

You just quoted someone you think is an expert, to prove your point, to then say not to listen to experts?

FYI once again you are taking one source (1 executive of the WHO's giving a substitute press conference in place of other doctors, taken and run with by the media for its headline) as actual data, it further proves my point that you are just googling, clicking the top link, and then writing a post about how the headline proves you right.

You of all people should understand this when I say this to you: if you read about it in a headline, and the article doesnt explain the data that proves it, it's someone's random opinion.

[douglas1999]

It's not. It's a number he pulled out of his ass.

Sorry it's 89%, according to current data, which is still not clear at all and reports nearly anyone who dies with a positive test result as having died *because* of covid, which means when more precise science is available, that percentage will almost certainly increase.

"Guy on p99 forums didn't say the exact right number, he pulled it out of his ass. It's only like... extremely close to the right number. What was that question you keep asking me? If we should mask and lockdown every year for the flu, why or why not? Nope nope still not gonna answer it."

[Woke Locc]

Sorry it's 89%, according to current data, which is still not clear at all and reports nearly anyone who dies with a positive test result as having died *because* of covid, which means when more precise science is available, that percentage will almost certainly increase.

"Guy on p99 forums didn't say the exact right number, he pulled it out of his ass. It's only like... extremely close to the right number. What was that question you keep asking me? If we should mask for the flu, why or why not? Nope nope still not gonna answer it."

So you're saying covid decimates seniors who contract it

[Castle2.0]

Jibartik,

You don't believe the infallible WHO, CDC, Fauci, and other experts? Shocking.

Aren't we supposed to "believe the experts"?

I do. I mean... he told me something I already knew... but hey, he said it. Real cases are greater than reported case by a large amount - his guess is 20x. Whatever that number is, IFR is way lower than it is listed at.

I'm shocked you don't believe the experts.

P.S. Don't miss this one

https://twitter.com/mad_liberals/status/1313248021950476288

P.S.S. You refused the official CDC/WHO numbers I shared in a previous post that show how similar flu/covid are and how few deaths there actually are. I'm done talking numbers with you - you won't accept the real numbers. Now, you just gets memes. Enjoy.

[douglas1999]

What is your point here?
If you think that 10% claim is accurate and based on actual data then you need to explain why there are 200k dead people in the usa in half a year and the flu hits around 1 quarter of that every entire year in the US?

Can you explain that without using a conspiracy theory?

The 200k figure is based on literally anyone who dies and also tests positive for covid being counted as a "covid death". This is how marijuana fatality statistics are artificially inflated. If you die in nearly any way, and test positive for THC, it's counted as "marijuana-related".

Tell me are there any numbers on people who have died and tested positive for covid but *weren't* then added to the death toll, because the cause of their death was obviously due to something else? Seems like an important thing to track if you want reliable data. I died of congestive heart failure but I also had sniffles. Let's mask up and shut down to prevent sniffles.

[Castle2.0]

~70,000 university cases of COVID
3 hospitalizations
0 deaths
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ejlrw5MUcAAjPty?format=jpg&name=900x900

move along

[Jibartik]

Still waiting for Pretzel to condemn those who don't want to protect people from flu (with the same measures we use for COVID.)

The silence is deafening.

"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."
-Maya Banjofu

Did I do that right?

Serious question, do you just dismiss all of my replies about why this is the way it be on earth as fantasy? Because I very clearly explained this to you and doug in two seperate posts as simple as the alphabet.

[Jibartik]

The 200k figure is based on literally anyone who dies and also tests positive for covid being counted as a "covid death". This is how marijuana fatality statistics are artificially inflated. If you die in nearly any way, and test positive for THC, it's counted as "marijuana-related".

Tell me are there any numbers on people who have died and tested positive for covid but *weren't* then added to the death toll, because the cause of their death was obviously due to something else? Seems like an important thing to track if you want reliable data. I died of congestive heart failure but I also had sniffles. Let's mask up and shut down to prevent sniffles.

Never in my entire life have I ever heard anyone quote marijuana death statstics.

However, if you just said that someone driving a car, high on Marijuana, crashes that car and dies, and is not a victim of a marijuana related death, then I'm going to have to ask you why that makes sense to you?

As for your second question, what are you suggesting, that if I have a weak heart, but catch a cold because YOU coughed in my face while you were yelling at me about how weak people dont deserve to live if they catch it, and you happen to give me covid. And I die. Because I also have a weak heart, it's ok that I am dead and that should NOT be counted as a covid death?

Even though if I had not caught covid, every doctor I have talked to in my life has said I will live a long and happy life, I just need to avoid certain illnesses?

Again why does that make me an expendable statistic in your opinion, so that we can make sure people don't get sad in their apartments for 1 year? Explain please? And if I died, because I had covid, and would ahve not died had I not had covid, why does that not mean I died of covid?

Or we could all accept that 2020-2022 SUCKS and we have to deal with it together?

[Jibartik]

~70,000 university cases of COVID
3 hospitalizations
0 deaths
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ejlrw5MUcAAjPty?format=jpg&name=900x900

move along

this is the kind of information a non a-hole would use to help integrate us back into a working economy. I may be a hypocrite for not wanting to make everyone live in prisons to protect us from the flu, but im no asshole! (well yes I am im being on ITT because I am very angry about it)

Clearly this age bracket is stronger against the illness, what does that mean to castle? "ITS A FAKE JOKE LOL DUHHHHHH"

No dude, use your brain, you made a thread about how you think people are dumb!

[Jibartik]

Jibartik,

You don't believe the infallible WHO, CDC, Fauci, and other experts? Shocking.

Aren't we supposed to "believe the experts"?

I do. I mean... he told me something I already knew... but hey, he said it. Real cases are greater than reported case by a large amount - his guess is 20x. Whatever that number is, IFR is way lower than it is listed at.

I'm shocked you don't believe the experts.

P.S. Don't miss this one

https://twitter.com/mad_liberals/status/1313248021950476288

P.S.S. You refused the official CDC/WHO numbers I shared in a previous post that show how similar flu/covid are and how few deaths there actually are. I'm done talking numbers with you - you won't accept the real numbers. Now, you just gets memes. Enjoy.

Dude, screw you. I never said believe experts, at most I have implied not to worry about the details you're stressing about! At no point have I done anything but explain to you how viral studies work and how the covid/influenza virus works and why we apply the types of measures we applied to it.

Literally. All you have done is quote experts most recent statements, and then say "SEEE" in bold "IM RIGHT YOURE SHEEP"

You cry and cry that you are ad homenem attacked and make threads in RnF about how everyone is DUMB and then come back here and have the audacity to say IM THE ONE that listens to the experts and make this neener nanner post about it?

[Toad1]

https://twitter.com/TrumpitC/status/1312879807458312192/photo/1

[Toad1]

LOL Triple jabartik post im not reading

SAD

[Jibartik]

LOL Triple jabartik post im not reading

SAD

im sad and mad :mad:

[Jibartik]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuiUk03MUfs

With this video I conceed that my argument is now invalid and whatever trump says, is the way it is.

This video proves all arguments from here on out!

[Woke Locc]

Comorbidity is a mystery box - you simultaneously died from each disease and also none of them

Or maybe listen to the medical professionals(nah)

[kjs86z]

The 200k figure is based on literally anyone who dies and also tests positive for covid being counted as a "covid death". This is how marijuana fatality statistics are artificially inflated. If you die in nearly any way, and test positive for THC, it's counted as "marijuana-related".

Tell me are there any numbers on people who have died and tested positive for covid but *weren't* then added to the death toll, because the cause of their death was obviously due to something else? Seems like an important thing to track if you want reliable data. I died of congestive heart failure but I also had sniffles. Let's mask up and shut down to prevent sniffles.

Exactly. Covid deaths are being hyper-inflated purely for funding. Dem feds monies gibs me dat. /thread


Anyone that wholly believes "the numbers" would have been euthanized in less sympathetic periods of human history for being retarded.

[Toad1]

covid is a joke until you feel whats its like in your lungs

[Evets]

If you trade your authenticity for safety, you may experience the following: anxiety, depression, eating disorders, addiction, rage, blame, resentment, and inexplicable grief.

—Brené Brown

[Jimjam]

Exactly. Covid deaths are being hyper-inflated purely for funding. Dem feds monies gibs me dat. /thread


Anyone that wholly believes "the numbers" would have been euthanized in less sympathetic periods of human history for being retarded.

Sad that American healthcare isn’t diversely funded and the ‘real’ conditions these people are being killed by don’t get the funding they need.

[kjs86z]

Sad that American healthcare isn’t diversely funded and the ‘real’ conditions these people are being killed by don’t get the funding they need.

Or it could be that the majority of Americans don't have enough self control to stop gulping soda / alcohol, smoking cigs, and eating their way into chronic illness. Just look at the Covid co-morbitities. Its a purge on people that don't take care of themselves (maybe we needed this).

If we taxed fat people and used that revenue towards health care we'd be headed in the right direction.

Even the Russians get it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaPNDbGKr7k

[Jimjam]

Do you guys not have sugar taxes on food and drink?

[Castle2.0]

Or it could be that the majority of Americans don't have enough self control to stop gulping soda / alcohol, smoking cigs, and eating their way into chronic illness.

^^^^

Do you guys not have sugar taxes on food and drink? New York tried that. California has considered it. Feces and needles in the streets. No problem. Sugar in your drinks? Big problem.

No thanks. You can legislate against gluttony or stupidity, and they are a powerful duo.

[Gwaihir]

Do you guys not have sugar taxes on food and drink?

No, thats Washington hebe shit.

Not even Commiefornia has those Antifa taxes. Profitting off of dullards. Good stuff.
Question: if you 2 sugard in your coffee, or 2 pumps of Monin white chocolate in your soy white mocha latte, does that cost extra tax? Like a homo-tax?

[strongNpretty]

^^^^

New York tried that. California has considered it. Feces and needles in the streets. No problem. Sugar in your drinks? Big problem.

No thanks. You can legislate against gluttony or stupidity, and they are a powerful duo.

You can't control a black market of Drugs.

You CAN control shitty ass ingredients that companies place in their items for consumption..

A kid isn't going to read a list of ingredients on his soda.. But a kid is gonna look at a heroin needle and be like, yeah that's not good for me...

[hobart]

Statistics doesn't care about your politics, Trumptards. It doesn't know where the US embassy in Benghazi is. It doesn't know anything about Burisma.

Yes, COVID case outcomes are tracked (disease surveillance) -- this person had COVID, did they live or die? This is where you see initial and projected death counts from. This is how hospitals and other medical systems earn some of their COVID funding.

But, in every state there is a system in place with CDC guidelines to reconcile death certificates and coroner's reports with disease surveillance data. Some states are better at it than others. That said, the states that are bad at this practice are the same states that have issues with testing and availability which means they are the same states that have more people dying of COVID without ever getting tested.

The CDC reports show <5% difference between surveillance data and reconciled data. Factoring in unreported cases, they generally assume this is a statistical wash.

[Blingy]

Do you guys not have sugar taxes on food and drink?

Seattle has a sugar tax. The number of organizations that scream about how unfair it is makes me shake my head.

[strongNpretty]

Also- Why the fuck is anybody taking any kind of health advice from Trump? He's one of the most unhealthy lookin fuckers I've ever seen....

If Trump put together a body building program, it's a shame to know half of you would read it like a bible. Buncha soon to be William Taft lookin ma'fuckers

[strongNpretty]

Seattle has a sugar tax. The number of organizations that scream about how unfair it is makes me shake my head.

Sugar tax is legit.. You don't need that shit.

[kjs86z]

Sugar tax is legit.. You don't need that shit.

Sugar is by far the most costly drug / substance to our healthcare system...nothing comes close.

[strongNpretty]

Sugar is by far the most costly drug / substance to our healthcare system...nothing comes close.

My man Kjs86z, I like you.

[Gwaihir]

Im more of the mind that we should address the source/root; like an obesity tax of 2k/year for any bmi over 28 unless lean body mass exceeds 88% of total weight. You shouldnt be able to dodge the tax just because youre drinking diet coke or buying sodas over state lines

[Castle2.0]

What do you like to eat or drink? I would like to regulate it, so you can't have it =)

The CDC reports... WHO says real cases most likely 20x of reported cases, which means real IFR about 1/20 reported IFR, which means COVID is pretty darn close to being as weak as flu. See previous posts for quotes and numbers on that from CDC/WHO.

Do you believe the health experts?

Im more of the mind that we should address the source/root; like an obesity tax of 2k/year for any bmi over 28 unless lean body mass exceeds 88% of total weight Next do IQ.

[Gwaihir]

Next do IQ.

Iq below 90 gets put on permanent disability, tax exempted, sterilized, and voting rights rescinded

[kjs86z]

Iq below 90 gets put on permanent disability, tax exempted, sterilized, and voting rights rescinded

Mandatory PT + Healthy Eating internment camp for BMI over 25

[strongNpretty]

What do you like to eat or drink? I would like to regulate it, so you can't have it =)

WHO says real cases most likely 20x of reported cases, which means real IFR about 1/20 reported IFR, which means COVID is pretty darn close to being as weak as flu. See previous posts for quotes and numbers on that from CDC/WHO.

Do you believe the health experts?

Next do IQ.

Honestly. Not trying to live in a world where I can't trust an "expert" in their field. And it would be an exhausting way of living to not trust experts" Why do that?

Your doctor- Well Joseph, that giant lump in your abdomen, turns out it's cancer, i'm sorry.

Joseph- HAH, yeah ok doc. Too bad I already know it's a small watermelon that has grown from the small black seed I accidently ingested a month ago...

[Gwaihir]

Mandatory PT + Healthy Eating internment camp for BMI over 25

Pretty easy to break 25 if youre lean-swole

[strongNpretty]

Side note- I also shouldn't have to pay the same price for my size medium pack of fruit loom undershirts, that the XXXL guy is paying..

Reward me for not clogging up the health system with diabetes and heart disease please. Can I claim somethin on my taxes for being healthy?!

[strongNpretty]

Let me drop some numbers on yall

strongNpretty's numbers-

140.2lb's
21.5 BMI
13.3% Body Fat
121.4 lb fat free body weight
11.8% Subcutaneous Fat
Rating of 4 on Visceral Fat
62.6% Body Water
56% Skeletal Muscle
115.4lb Muscle Mass
6.2lb Bone Mass
19.8% Protein
1560Kcall BMR
Metabolic Age- 31
Real Age- 35

PAY ME FOR MY HEALTH AMERICA!!!!!

[Gwaihir]

Side note- I also shouldn't have to pay the same price for my size medium pack of fruit loom undershirts, that the XXXL guy is paying..

Reward me for not clogging up the health system with diabetes and heart disease please. Can I claim somethin on my taxes for being healthy?!

No.

This country only rewards achievements obtained in Victimhood Olympics. Being healthy or financially successful incurs costs in the form of higher taxes and added bloat in your insurance premiums to offset the net burden of underperformers.

[Jibartik]

I would say rewarding Americans for being healthy with tax breaks, would be much better than taxing them for being poor and buying saturated fatty foods because they're cheep!

Sounds liek strongNpretty deserves a break for all that hard work! He should be rewarded with a larger grocery budget this year for even more healthy foods!

[strongNpretty]

I would say rewarding Americans for being healthy with tax breaks, would be much better than taxing them for being poor and buying saturated fatty foods because they're cheep!

Sounds liek strongNpretty deserves a break for all that hard work! He should be rewarded with a larger grocery budget this year for even more healthy foods!

Hahahaha dude you're actually very much correct.... There are certainly reasons for shit food with shit ingredients to exist.. Having a lack of money is a legit reason. I will excuse this group of folks.

However water is free, soda and other shit drinks aren't. There is no reason to provide your poor family with soda..

Mcdonalds and top ramen- Yes
Soda and sugar drinks- No

[Woke Locc]

What do you like to eat or drink? I would like to regulate it, so you can't have it =)

Sin taxes are bullshit

[Danth]

I detest fatties and alcoholics but I'd rather stand with them than stand with the moralizing "ban anything I don't like" crusaders. They're exemplar of the phrase, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." They also seem to naively think that no-one will ever come after the things they happen to enjoy. Liberty isn't supposed to be about efficiency, and freedom means having the right to make bad decisions as well as good. I accept subsidizing their "bad" behavior because it means they'll subsidize mine such as if I run myself over with my lawn mower because I disabled all the safety cutoff devices on it. That's the cost of a free society and I accept it gladly.

You want to do something about sugar, start by going after the corn lobby. Creating financial incentive to maintain consumption in the form of tax revenue is hardly going to motivate the government to reduce usage.

Danth

[Jibartik]

However water is free, soda and other shit drinks aren't. There is no reason to provide your poor family with soda..

Mcdonalds and top ramen- Yes
Soda and sugar drinks- No

Haha for sure, I just think the only way to teach the poor that is to dangle a dollar in front of them, rather than snatch one from behind in the fine print on a receipt. :o

I think about sugar in my life, and how much I love it. And how if I stopped eating it, would I maybe live another 10 or 15 years? And then my present self says "nah, who cares"

But on the other hand if I had a healthy heart rate and BMI I got a skateboard?

https://i.imgur.com/iMmZg7x.gif

[strongNpretty]

Haha for sure, I just think the only way to teach the poor that is to dangle a dollar in front of them, rather than snatch one from behind in the fine print on a receipt. :o

I think about sugar in my life, and how much I love it. And how if I stopped eating it, would I maybe live another 10 or 15 years? And then my present self says "nah, who cares"

But on the other hand if I had a healthy heart rate and BMI:

https://i.imgur.com/iMmZg7x.gif

Genetics. So much play a role in individual health... You ever see those homeless dudes who are like 85 and still pushing around carts? I mean i'm not sayin that homey is healthy, but dude you got a good thing goin on inside to live through such conditions and still be mobile and alive..

We all know that skinny ass white friend who been eatin cheeseburgers and fries since you were teenagers, and he never gained an inch around his gut.. The 6 pack skinny I eat like shit guys..

I remember starting a little body building routine with my buddy years ago.. He's part german.. Anyways, we ate the same shit, did the same workouts, and hooooly fuck he became an Arnold schwartzenager while I just leaned down to a bruce lee...

Blame yo family at the end of the day if you bloat up from a lollipop...

[Jibartik]

Im not blaming anyone? Im just offering the idea that tax incentives for healthy people would be better than taxes for unhealthy purchases.

[Gwaihir]

Hahahaha dude you're actually very much correct.... There are certainly reasons for shit food with shit ingredients to exist.. Having a lack of money is a legit reason. I will excuse this group of folks.

However water is free, soda and other shit drinks aren't. There is no reason to provide your poor family with soda..

Mcdonalds and top ramen- Yes
Soda and sugar drinks- No

Such a stupid fallacy.

You can make enough handmade pasta with fresh veggies and a1lb of utalian sausage to feed 10ppl for under 10$.

You can do chicken tacos w/fresh veggies and handmade tortillas and salsa to feed 10 for 10$, 12$ if u allocate 6oz of freshly shredded cheese.

I feed 6 ppl in my family for less than 600$/month.

Thats 1/4 to 1/3 of the price of feeding them off the dollar menu.

Hell, i pressed a $1.20 1lb block of tofu, breaded, and air fried it with a lemony cream sauce over pasta with diced bell peppers, onion, and fresh greenbeans for less than 5$ and fed 6 ppl with a lunch leftover for the wife today, last night.

Poor, fats are just stupid if they claim its cheaper to eat retarded.

[strongNpretty]

Oh yeah I wasn't like sseeeeeeriously saying to call up your family and blame them haha... But for every generation that doesn't do something for their families health, the worse off that bloodline gonna be...

All i'm sayin- If you from the William Taft Clan.. Chances are good many of your clan will get stuck in bathtubs for generations to come.....

[Jibartik]

You sayin ivanka gonna have a blow out? :D

https://i.imgur.com/Dp5EbuW.png

[Gwaihir]

Honestly. Not trying to live in a world where I can't trust an "expert" in their field. And it would be an exhausting way of living to not trust experts" Why do that?

Your doctor- Well Joseph, that giant lump in your abdomen, turns out it's cancer, i'm sorry.

Joseph- HAH, yeah ok doc. Too bad I already know it's a small watermelon that has grown from the small black seed I accidently ingested a month ago...

Just to be clear, are we talking about the "experts" that copied all my homework in Chem 101, 102, O-Chem, Physics, and Biology while i was majoring in Bio and minoring in Chem, who required me to explain everything 10 to 20 different ways before they finally "got it" enough to pass exams with a C/C+ and absorb just enough "expertise" to barely pass the MCAT, or...which "experts" are we talking about here?

[strongNpretty]

You sayin ivanka gonna have a blow out? :D

https://i.imgur.com/Dp5EbuW.png

The outcome is foggy for this one.... The mother of this thing plays a solid role.. I don't know enough about moms family...

In other news, I hear Gwaihir makes a mean ass fresh pressed tofu block, over fresh pasta and veggies that can feed a family of 6 with left overs!!!??

Party at Gwaihir's!

[strongNpretty]

Just to be clear, are we talking about the "experts" that copied all my homework in Chem 101, 102, O-Chem, Physics, and Biology while i was majoring in Bio and minoring in Chem, who required me to explain everything 10 to 20 different ways before they finally "got it" enough to pass exams with a C/C+ and absorb just enough "expertise" to barely pass the MCAT, or...which "experts" are we talking about here?

Hmmm im'a say not you, cause you kinda come off as a prick.. Nobody is gonna stick with a doctor who berates them with knowledge..

IT'S FUCKING CANCER STEVE, YOU DONT NEED A 2ND OPINION! I WENT TO HARVARD, I WAS TEACHING KIDS CHEM 101 AND 102 WHEN YOU WERE POOPIN IN DIAPERS STEEEEEEEEVE!!!

TRUST ME, ITS CANCER U FAT RETARD..

[strongNpretty]

PEOPLE COPIED OFF ME STEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVE!

[Woke Locc]

It's like a week after Trump danced on Ginsbergs grave and DC is filled with plague, joint chiefs got it now

Was she a gypsy/witch?

[strongNpretty]

3 things I need to take you seriously Gwar-

-Front Lat Spread Pose
-A copy of both yours and your homies homework who was copied (or a copy of your last test grade)
-A picture of 6 children and a wife eating fresh pressed tofu

[Jibartik]

It's like a week after Trump danced on Ginsbergs grave and DC is filled with plague, joint chiefs got it now

Was she a gypsy/witch?

It could start raining toads and I wouldn't be surprised these days. So anything's possible!

[Gwaihir]

PEOPLE COPIED OFF ME STEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVE!

Just saying, your "experts" aren't exactly "experts".

The doctor you go to see, for the most part, diagnoses by querying a database, and prescribes accordingly. Theyre essentially doing the same thing as a tech support rep troubleshooting software issues unless the diagnosis is so apparent that they just nail it by rote experience.

[Gwaihir]

3 things I need to take you seriously Gwar-

-Front Lat Spread Pose
-A copy of both yours and your homies homework who was copied (or a copy of your last test grade)
-A picture of 6 children and a wife eating fresh pressed tofu

Freeze tofu, defrost, remove from package, wrap with a washcloth, and press to remove excess water.

[Danth]

Just saying, your "experts" aren't exactly "experts".

The doctor you go to see, for the most part, diagnoses by querying a database, and prescribes accordingly. Theyre essentially doing the same thing as a tech support rep troubleshooting software issues.

Ah, I see you've also had to deal with the medical industry in this country. Don't you love it when ignorant and naive folks who've never had to deal with the system to any significant extent discuss their starry-eyed ideas about how they think it works? Never fails, once they get sick they crash down to earth in a hurry.

Reality: General practice doctors are usually just about worthless. They continue existing mainly because of their monopoly on prescriptions. If you have an actual problem beyond a muscle tear or common infection they'll mostly refer you to a specialist anyway. Specialists run about 1 in 3 or so having any value. Most of them are garbage. If you get a good one stay with that office forever. Surgeons seem about 50/50, mostly they're competent but a lot of them are indifferent, overworked, and do sloppy work. One of the wife's friends, her husband shot and killed himself a couple months ago because he came home from a common procedure permanently paralyzed below the waist and in terrible pain because the Dr. made an oopsie. Can they be useful? Sure--but trust them like you trust a pack of jackals, run anything they say past a B.S. filter, and take the time to try to find one of the good ones. The bother is absolutely worth it.

Danth

[strongNpretty]

Damn how did everquest produce top players in every profession? Crazy... We got the best chemists, teachers, doctors, nutritionists, politicians... Premier league here..

It's probably because i joined after classic, that's why i'm just a middle class citizen....

[Castle2.0]

Prediction

330 - 208 Trump wins (bigger than the 304-227 where Trump thumped Clinton)

https://twitter.com/KMCRadio/status/1313529491273273344

[Danth]

Damn how did everquest produce top players in every profession? Crazy... We got the best chemists, teachers, doctors, nutritionists, politicians... Premier league here..

It's the other way around, if the so-called expert can't come up with anything a layman can't come up with, he's no expert at all regardless of the framed paper hanging on his wall. Just last month for god's sake I talked to a doctor who DID NOT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE between type 1 and type 2 diabetes. Dude's credentials might as well be printed on toilet paper. I'm not writing this out for the sake of argument, but to hopefully save you grief once the time comes you need health care--and make no mistake, you'll get there sooner or later* assuming some freak accident doesn't take you out. Use them as a resource, but never trust them uncritically.

*It is ordained by nature from the moment we're born, that all of us will die and most of us are going to die in misery.

Danth

[Toad1]

tofu is disgusting fake food, soy lowers T Levels and will make males fat and grow tits

great for trannies tho

[Toad1]

Prediction

330 - 208 Trump wins (bigger than the 304-227 where Trump thumped Clinton)

https://twitter.com/KMCRadio/status/1313529491273273344

Everything i hear suggests a biden win but i am a trump fan

regardless

trump 2024 100%

i just want my money to grow over the next 4 years instead of watching my mutual funds wedge

[Jibartik]

It's the other way around, if the so-called expert can't come up with anything a layman can't come up with, he's no expert at all regardless of the framed paper hanging on his wall. Just last month for god's sake I talked to a doctor who DID NOT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE between type 1 and type 2 diabetes. Dude's credentials might as well be printed on toilet paper. I'm not writing this out for the sake of argument, but to hopefully save you grief once the time comes you need health care--and make no mistake, you'll get there sooner or later* assuming some freak accident doesn't take you out. Use them as a resource, but never trust them uncritically.

*It is ordained by nature from the moment we're born, that all of us will die and most of us are going to die in misery.

Danth

This is kind contrary to my entire life's experience.

My dad had surgery that fixed something he was trying to fix for the 10 years that lead up to it. He basically became 20 years younger and is now 92, he was at a hospice at 78 leading up tot he surgery. It was covered and never had any major impact on our savings. From my perspective I was watching him get exactly the care I expected from a hospital, I was happy 100% with his treatment even when he was having no success. At no point did me or my family feel he was being jerked around, and the hospitals and doctors we talked to seemed to be working super hard to find a solution to his mystery problem. Poor guy loved red meat and had to take sipero to eat it and was only allowed to like once a year! My mother had a surgery too, all payed for by her health insurance, that surgery allowed her to walk on her knee that was giving out.

We are super super super low middle class. :confused:

I must be uber pivlaged or things have changed a lot in the last 10 years! Dad seems to still love going to the hospital like all the time to have something sewn back together, seems like to me! I call him up and he like "oh I had my arm sewed back on yesterday!" Im like lol wtf you didnt even tell me!?!

[Danth]

This is kind contrary to my entire life's experience.

Might be where you live? I can accept the best and brightest of their profession aren't exactly beating down the doors to work here in Ohio. For the past 20 years or so nearly every experience I've had with the medical field has been overwhelmingly negative. Seemed like something started to go wrong with the business around circa 2000ish. When my own dad was in for for a major heart attack in 1988 it was much as you describe, nothing but a positive experience. He was as good as dead and ended up living another 20 years. I'm sincerely glad you've had better experience than I have and I wish your side of it was universal.

Danth

[Jibartik]

Might be where you live? I can accept the best and brightest of their profession aren't exactly beating down the doors to work here in Ohio. For the past 20 years or so nearly every experience I've had with the medical field has been overwhelmingly negative. Seemed like something started to go wrong with the business around circa 2000ish. When my own dad was in for for a major heart attack in 1988 it was much as you describe, nothing but a positive experience. He was as good as dead and ended up living another 20 years. I'm sincerely glad you've had better experience than I have and I wish your side of it was universal.

Danth

That's gotta be it.

I did go to a new doctor when i was in the south and on the wall was a poster that said, 3 cures for upset stomach, and a glass of Coke was one of them. I was like, not sure I'm in the right place.. lol!

These examples were in some pretty good areas, my parents chose wisely, so to speak. Makes me think it's time to move home lol!

edit: my mom was from the south and she always gave me coke when I felt sick, I loved it. In collage my roommates roasted me SO HARD about it when I was sick once, and I was like, b-b-b-but its doctors orders? then 20 years later I saw that poster and was like HAH that's where my southern mom got it! :P

[Danth]

Mom would do that, but she also made sure it went flat first. It never did jack and I never cared much for flat pop either but what can you do when you're a kid and it's either that or some other medicine that's probably a whole lot less appealing?

[Patriam1066]

Everything i hear suggests a biden win but i am a trump fan

regardless

trump 2024 100%

i just want my money to grow over the next 4 years instead of watching my mutual funds wedge

Biden win + senate = stocks gonna drop

Just buy mutual funds mid 2021, VTSAX & VTIAX or FZROX & FZILX if you prefer fidelity. Even with a Trump win man, stocks may drop. The world is teetering right now, a lot of debt and not a lot of consumer spending due to covid lingering

[Blingy]

Sugar tax is legit.. You don't need that shit.

Sugar is by far the most costly drug / substance to our healthcare system...nothing comes close.

My man Kjs86z, I like you.

I agree. I drink mostly water, reasonable amount of coffee with cashew milk and the occasional cup of tea.

The people bitching about it keep saying crap like "Why do you hate poor people? Poor people drink the most sugary drinks so taxing it means you must want to keep them poor." or something like that.

If your water tastes crappy go buy a dam filter. It's a lot cheaper to filter 240 gallons of water than it is to pay tax on 10 gallons of pop.

[Patriam1066]

tofu is disgusting fake food, soy lowers T Levels and will make males fat and grow tits

great for trannies tho

Lol’ed

Tofu tastes like shit. I don’t see the point of it. Any resident Asians want to explain?

[Gwaihir]

Damn how did everquest produce top players in every profession? Crazy... We got the best chemists, teachers, doctors, nutritionists, politicians... Premier league here..

It's probably because i joined after classic, that's why i'm just a middle class citizen....

Double-down on stubborn refusal to accept reality, in exchange for idealism on how things "should" be.

Should =/= reality, you obdurate sumbitch.

[Blingy]

Lol’ed

Tofu tastes like shit. I don’t see the point of it. Any resident Asians want to explain?

My kids are Asian. My son hates it. My daughter decided to be vegetarian awhile back. I told her she can choose her own food but she needs to follow a basic food pyramid. She tolerates tofu now and then purely for her protein intake but doesn't really like it.

A couple of my Asian friends have told me if you grow up with it the flavor is just a normal flavor like anything else.

[Gwaihir]

Biden win + senate = stocks gonna drop

Just buy mutual funds mid 2021, VTSAX & VTIAX or FZROX & FZILX if you prefer fidelity. Even with a Trump win man, stocks may drop. The world is teetering right now, a lot of debt and not a lot of consumer spending due to covid lingering

SELL PUTS AT -20 to -40% below current market value. There are quite a few companies that have little to no chance of going bankrupt offering ridiculous returns on put options way below the current market price right now, who are returning more than 15% in premiums

[Zoolander]

meanwhile, the worlds number one tax evader got corona the day after it went public.

people forget, very fast.

[Gwaihir]

tofu is disgusting fake food, soy lowers T Levels and will make males fat and grow tits

great for trannies tho

Assuming fast food value menu items aren't using Soy or even worse ingredients as fillers. You do realize that in order for a fast food restaurant to claim they're serving you a "Beef" hamburger; it only has to be 51% Beef, right? Same thing with calling an item "chicken".

[Toad1]

Tons of financial advice for everyone despite the fact i have no money or investments of my own, im pretty much a realtor that cant afford groceries.

[Toad1]

Assuming fast food value menu items aren't using Soy or even worse ingredients as fillers. You do realize that in order for a fast food restaurant to claim they're serving you a "Beef" hamburger; it only has to be 51% Beef, right? Same thing with calling an item "chicken".

more then 50% of a fast food pattie is hydrolyzed oat product or bran product

i dont eat fast food regardless, i dont see a point, sure its delecious but if you cant learn to cook a good meal something is wrong

[hobart]

i just want my money to grow over the next 4 years instead of watching my mutual funds wedge

Let's suppose your "mutual funds" lose 50% over the next four years. Go to your neighbor's house and search the sofa cushions for a dime. Stop at one dime, don't get greedy. That's a 25% IRR, moneybags. You're welcome.

[Jimjam]

I would say rewarding Americans for being healthy with tax breaks, would be much better than taxing them for being poor and buying saturated fatty foods because they're cheep!

Sounds liek strongNpretty deserves a break for all that hard work! He should be rewarded with a larger grocery budget this year for even more healthy foods!

Reward can work better than punishment. This is part of the reason people drink so much sugary soda. When you drinknit the brain gives you a big old pat on the back at a neurochemical level.

Good work on the gainz and maintainz strong n pretty.

On food labelling we mandate a badge on the front of every product showing the worst offending nutritional elements (like fat, salt, sugar, etc) which is colour coded green thru red for each element so you can tell at a glance if the product does your body a disservice. The rear of the product will contain the full conventional chart showing ingredients and also all the exact amounts of other nutrition.

The sugar tax doesn’t work perfectly. It’s only a small % of the product and many pubs just match the price to their diet option and accept a smaller per unit profit. The serving size is ridiculous. A uk pint of cola is enormous. Even healthier options like pure juice is way overportioned to the point of being bad.

Tbh even diet options such.

[strongNpretty]

Double-down on stubborn refusal to accept reality, in exchange for idealism on how things "should" be.

Should =/= reality, you obdurate sumbitch.

You make the world a shittier place just fyi.

[kjs86z]

https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/

On a serious note, I have a nice chunk of cash sidelined for the next big dip. I think if Biden wins and the dems gain control of the senate we're in for a major plunge.

https://i.imgur.com/xdmppiV.jpeg

[Jimjam]

Don’t get store bought dips. They are full of sugars, salt and transfat dips. Instead try dips from your local deli or even home made.

[Pretzelle]

https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/

On a serious note, I have a nice chunk of cash sidelined for the next big dip. I think if Biden wins and the dems gain control of the senate we're in for a major plunge.

https://i.imgur.com/xdmppiV.jpeg

Except, because you're too dumb to know anything at all about history, nor can you read a graph, the economy always does better under Democrats.

[Patriam1066]

Except, because you're too dumb to know anything at all about history, nor can you read a graph, the economy always does better under Democrats.

The market is larger than the US economy. We’re in a bubble, it’s going to tank if the senate and presidency are democratic. It will come back, but lots of money will leave the market in fear of capital gains tax increases

He’s right, I have cash set aside for the same purpose as well

[Patriam1066]

Assuming fast food value menu items aren't using Soy or even worse ingredients as fillers. You do realize that in order for a fast food restaurant to claim they're serving you a "Beef" hamburger; it only has to be 51% Beef, right? Same thing with calling an item "chicken".

Chick fil a my man, 30 count nuggets for me and my Australian shepherds to share

One good thing about being a consultant is I’m off for two weeks at a time and Houston’s weather is glorious right now. Loaded up the Tacoma and dogs and rolled to chick fil a on Kirby and 59

[kaizersoze]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G5M6FyvtoU

[Toad1]

https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/

On a serious note, I have a nice chunk of cash sidelined for the next big dip. I think if Biden wins and the dems gain control of the senate we're in for a major plunge.

https://i.imgur.com/xdmppiV.jpeg

i do as well and its ready to go, does not mean i want america to dip i want it to soar

i want everyone to win, i want everyone to pursue an american dream of their own

( Regardless of what it is )

Anyone who votes for biden is too poor and dumb to understand what that really means for america

[Pretzelle]

i do as well and its ready to go, does not mean i want america to dip i want it to soar

i want everyone to win, i want everyone to pursue an american dream of their own

( Regardless of what it is )

Anyone who votes for biden is too poor and dumb to understand what that really means for america
Would rather be poor than support white supremacy and fascism :o

[Toad1]

im sorry you live in a imaginary box of a world, but all rich white guys are racist, they always have been and they always will be

joe is racist too

i promise

Some things will never change

You should be voting based on what you think the candidate will do for america, not their racist views of certain groups of people

you dont care, because you dont have any money and you never will

The only people voting for biden are doing it because they have no money and they are mad at the world, be mad at yourself for being such a fat lazy worthless bag of shit

loser

[strongNpretty]

im sorry you live in a imaginary box of a world, but all rich white guys are racist, they always have been and they always will be

joe is racist too

i promise

Some things will never change

You should be voting based on what you think the candidate will do for america, not their racist views of certain groups of people

you dont care, because you dont have any money and you never will

The only people voting for biden are doing it because they have no money and they are mad at the world, be mad at yourself for being such a fat lazy worthless bag of shit

loser

But what if im poor, voting for biden, but extremely handsome with an intense vascularity?

[Pretzelle]

im sorry you live in a imaginary box of a world, but all rich white guys are racist, they always have been and they always will be

joe is racist too

i promise

Some things will never change

You should be voting based on what you think the candidate will do for america, not their racist views of certain groups of people

you dont care, because you dont have any money and you never will

The only people voting for biden are doing it because they have no money and they are mad at the world, be mad at yourself for being such a fat lazy worthless bag of shit

loser

You sound mad. Need a hug?

[PieOats]

I have come to the unsettling conclusion that it is incumbent upon the working man to EAT THE RICH for exploiting and weaponizing the poors. One’s greatest threat is not the many clamoring about his ankles; it is the ones who can reach his neck.

#proudbigot

[douglas1999]

Would rather be poor than support white supremacy and fascism :o

You'll find those witches some day. Just keep on looking.

Remember, if they denounce witchcraft, but don't do it quiiiiiite the right way, they are clearly a witch! Let's burn her!!! Rabble rabble.

[Pretzelle]

You'll find those witches some day. Just keep on looking.

Remember, if they denounce witchcraft, but don't do it quiiiiiite the right way, they are clearly a witch! Let's burn her!!! Rabble rabble.

Yes, you're clearly left of center. Just admit that you're a boot-licking fascist and love Mango Mussolini.

[Jibartik]

Remember, if they denounce witchcraft, but don't do it quiiiiiite the right way, they are clearly a witch! Let's burn her!!! Rabble rabble.

Remember if they think covid is different than the flu they're leftist draconian communists.