What's the deal with shcool teachers?

[tsuchang]

I'm 75 years old. When I was young, back in the 60s, The teachers were complaining that they didn't make enough money and wanted a pay raise.
Fast forward to just a few minutes ago, I got a phone call asking if I was going to vote for or against the raising of tax to fund a pay raise for teachers.
The folks who become teachers, went to college, knowing that they were not going to be paid a high salary. If they didn't know that, they were not smart enough to be teachers.
I have cousins who have retired from teaching, they made it their career. They went to teacher colleges got degrees and continued their education while they worked but still, they complained that they didn't make enough.
When I got out of the Air Force after 12 years, I got a job and scraped by. When a better job came along that paid more I moved to that job. I did that all my working life. If you think you aren't making enough, get a job that pays more.
If the teachers are not intelligent enough to do even that when they feel underpaid, should they be teaching?

[Ravager]

Americans are fucking idiots for this very reason. 95% of this world's problems would be solved if everyone had an education that taught them to think beyond what's in front of them. Good teachers should be millionaires. But fuck, keep America stupid. Eventually I'll abandon my moral compass and fleece the idiots.

[indiscriminate_hater]

taught them to think beyond what's in front of them

A lot of people can't be taught how to do that

[cd288]

I think the point is that teachers are critical. So you want to have a certain amount of pay to both keep good teachers and attract new good ones. You keep the pay shitty all you get is shitty teachers. Don’t be a dumb ass

[monkeydoc]

Why is this in RnF? Go yell at the sky in Off Topic, grandpa.

[Pico]

'why pay teachers a living salary?' asks demented old man living in the most retarded nation in history

[Spergand]

Government employees, think dmv.

But also public school is a pyramid scheme

[Asteria]

Wrong forum?

Please leave this kinda stuff in Off-topic :)

[Jibartik]

If you could actually move it straight past off topic right into the trash that'd be even better!

[Nuggie]

These problems persist due to us having an imperfect or perhaps an incomplete system. That's all.

[Jibartik]

I just hope we eroded the education system of the worlds most powerful military over the last few generations enough so that we can actually put a THE END to this story once and for all.

[Blingy]

I live in a very well funded school district. Teacher with a bachelors degree starts at $65k for 9 months work and no outside activities. Most around here are over $100k....and they still fucking complain about not making enough.

Imagine this, a kindergarten school teacher makes more in 9 months than the engineer that figured out if the stress levels on airplanes will tear it apart makes in 12.

[Videri]

Where did the engineer learn to do all that?

[cannobeers3]

You should probably inject Lysol like your leader taught you, you fucking dunce.

[Psyborg]

Wrong forum, right amount of stupid.

[Wutaan]

I'm 75 years old. When I was young, back in the 60s, The teachers were complaining that they didn't make enough money and wanted a pay raise.
Fast forward to just a few minutes ago, I got a phone call asking if I was going to vote for or against the raising of tax to fund a pay raise for teachers.
The folks who become teachers, went to college, knowing that they were not going to be paid a high salary. If they didn't know that, they were not smart enough to be teachers.
I have cousins who have retired from teaching, they made it their career. They went to teacher colleges got degrees and continued their education while they worked but still, they complained that they didn't make enough.
When I got out of the Air Force after 12 years, I got a job and scraped by. When a better job came along that paid more I moved to that job. I did that all my working life. If you think you aren't making enough, get a job that pays more.
If the teachers are not intelligent enough to do even that when they feel underpaid, should they be teaching?

"Chang" Not American, opinion disregarded.

[Tunabros]

this turned into reddit real fast

[Babittle]

So this is where Biden is hiding.

[charmcitysking]

What's the deal with Ovaltine?

The jar is round. The mug is round.

They should call it: 'Roundtine'.

[Mickets]

Typical red hat retard brigade, can't understand why anyone would do anything to help anyone ever. Can't look forward more than 30 seconds in the future. Can't figure out why having an educated populace is good for everyone. My sea of thieves crew could use you though, I bet you're real good at keeping the deck of our sloop clean.

[Zoggren]

I live in a very well funded school district. Teacher with a bachelors degree starts at $65k for 9 months work and no outside activities. Most around here are over $100k....and they still fucking complain about not making enough.

Imagine this, a kindergarten school teacher makes more in 9 months than the engineer that figured out if the stress levels on airplanes will tear it apart makes in 12.

Post proof or you're full of shit.

[friendlinzh]

Good teachers should be millionaires.

[Spergand]

People talk bad about the reddit for being uncensored?

[Evets]

Teachers never feel they get paid enough because they are looking after everyone else's demon spawn. They're pretty much daycare workers so the good slaves can go to work while their kids are off at the liberal 12 step brainwashing program.

[OuterChimp]

I think good schools and teachers are needed, so folks know that school is spelled s c h o o l and not shcool.

[Mead]

How many pill bottles does a 75 year old gamer own?

I do agree with you though and your choice of thread placement.

[BlackBellamy]

How many pill bottles does a 75 year old gamer own?

I do agree with you though and your choice of thread placement.

Rants and Flames is for in-game dissatisfaction with how some guild fucked you out of your glowing letter opener and when you complained to the guild leader he told you to go get bent and called you a scrub.

The answer to your trick question is zero. At that age everyone has a giant rectangular pill organizer with little box for each day of the month.

[tsuchang]

You guys are funny.

[Woke Locc]

A nickel won't buy you a humdinger from the soda jerk anymore

That's why

[Jimjam]

Kinda disappointed this isn’t about guild trainers in the Freeport Academy.

The issue is payroll is viewed as a cost to be minimised, not an investment that yields returns. This is especially true in public sector spending where investment upfront creates productive workers and the opposite creates dysfunctional individuals with a high social cost. Couple this with crony capitalism where supercompany contracting firms sponge up money while failing to deliver projects on budget and you can see why the public fails.

[OuterChimp]

When Bernie wins we'll all get free stuff, so this thread can get locked as it'll be a moot point then.

[Raev]

If the teachers are not intelligent enough to do even that when they feel underpaid, should they be teaching?

If organizing into a union and demanding more money from the apathetic public works, wouldn't your teachers be dumb not to do so?

[BlackBellamy]

Kinda disappointed this isn’t about guild trainers in the Freeport Academy.
.

I just noticed the thread title contains the word "SHCOOL".

What was the deal with school teachers in 1959? Maybe we should have paid them better back then?

[BlackBellamy]

I went to high school in the 80s. The only thing our teachers taught us was that everyone loved cocaine and we could make money selling it to them. Especially Mr. Rotonda we all saw your fingernail you weren't fooling anyone.

[Castle2.0]

More money hasn't solved the poor quality of public education in America.

We tried more money over many decades. It didn't work.

Teacher unions have been a major roadblock to progress. They are a TEACHER union, not an EDUCATION or STUDENT union. Wonder who pays them fees to exist and whose interest they will be pushing for?

[Jibartik]

god lord

welcome to costco I love you here we come!

[Nuggie]

I went to high school in the 80s. The only thing our teachers taught us was that everyone loved cocaine and we could make money selling it to them. Especially Mr. Rotonda we all saw your fingernail you weren't fooling anyone.

Is that why that generation is so fucked up?

[dmpv01]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDfwHo4ELbA&ab_channel=RealTimewithBillMaher

[Woke Locc]

They are a TEACHER union, not an EDUCATION or STUDENT union. Wonder who pays them fees to exist and whose interest they will be pushing for?

That is generally how unions operate.

Now pay me.

[LazyHydras]

Wrong subforum, Off Topic is that way --------------->

[fuckshit22]

teaching grades 1-12 shouldnt require an overpriced 4-12 year education. teacher is one of the easiest jobs in the world, you just have to be smarter than children. children aren't that smart. thanks norm.

[fuckshit22]

I'm 75 years old. When I was young, back in the 60s, The teachers were complaining that they didn't make enough money and wanted a pay raise.
Fast forward to just a few minutes ago, I got a phone call asking if I was going to vote for or against the raising of tax to fund a pay raise for teachers.
The folks who become teachers, went to college, knowing that they were not going to be paid a high salary. If they didn't know that, they were not smart enough to be teachers.
I have cousins who have retired from teaching, they made it their career. They went to teacher colleges got degrees and continued their education while they worked but still, they complained that they didn't make enough.
When I got out of the Air Force after 12 years, I got a job and scraped by. When a better job came along that paid more I moved to that job. I did that all my working life. If you think you aren't making enough, get a job that pays more.
If the teachers are not intelligent enough to do even that when they feel underpaid, should they be teaching?

hey can i have your platinum when you die?

[Blingy]

Post proof or you're full of shit.

https://bsd405.org/wp-content/pdf/cba/teacher-salary-schedule.pdf

[Blingy]

And adding https://bsd405.org/wp-content/pdf/cba/teacher-activity-salary-schedule.pdf

These are base 9 month incomes. Add more for summer school, tutoring, etc.

[Spergand]

Most pub school teachers are full blown alcoholics/drug users/sex offenders. Thats why they like that3 month off and that tenure. Don't send your kids to government day care

[tsuchang]

My point is, it is a low paying job, they know it is a low paying job, they go to college to get a low paying job. Then they complain that it is a low paying job. That isn't very bright.
All the other "stuff" you have posted about what you think my point is, is you projecting your opinion onto me. You can keep it, I don't want it. I have enough of my own hangups.

[tsuchang]

I just noticed the thread title contains the word "SHCOOL".

What was the deal with school teachers in 1959? Maybe we should have paid them better back then?

A typo. Ya gota work harder than that.

[reznor_]

OP is one of the reasons Americans are dumber than the rest of the world.

[reznor_]

And so is anyone else who thinks not having a good education system which rewards the best isn't a good thing. You want dominance to stay in America? Get good teachers.

[Blingy]

And so is anyone else who thinks not having a good education system which rewards the best isn't a good thing. You want dominance to stay in America? Get good teachers.

If the teachers didn't have a singular/linear thought process about how the world should be I'd put more faith in them. A good education system would be awesome but how each of us defines what is good varies so wildly it's going to take a cultural change to agree on what good means.

My neck of the woods definition of good: STEM focused diploma with 1,000+ hours of STEM extra-circulars over 4 years followed by a STEM degree and a path to work at one of the STEM companies starting at $100k+/year. Everything else and your kid and the parent by extension are failures at life.

[Gatordash]

My point is, it is a low paying job, they know it is a low paying job, they go to college to get a low paying job. Then they complain that it is a low paying job. That isn't very bright.
All the other "stuff" you have posted about what you think my point is, is you projecting your opinion onto me. You can keep it, I don't want it. I have enough of my own hangups.

You just don't like school/schoolteachers. Everyone complains about their job. The cashier at 7-11 is also complaining about how little he gets paid.

[Jibartik]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdnDnc5rOm4

[fastboy21]

I'd hardly call teaching a "low paying job" --- most public teachers in my district make over 100k / year, get excellent benefits, a property right to their job (tenure) and a pension guarentee which typically includes health insurance for life...

I agree that you have virtually 0% chance of striking it rich, but it isn't by a stretch a bad profession to go into...especially if you are a good at it and enjoy doing it.

The real resentment in faculty rooms is usually towards mooching co-worker teachers who earn the same salary/benefits and overpaid administrators that justify by their position by interfering with teachers trying to teach.

[reznor_]

If the teachers didn't have a singular/linear thought process about how the world should be I'd put more faith in them. A good education system would be awesome but how each of us defines what is good varies so wildly it's going to take a cultural change to agree on what good means.

My neck of the woods definition of good: STEM focused diploma with 1,000+ hours of STEM extra-circulars over 4 years followed by a STEM degree and a path to work at one of the STEM companies starting at $100k+/year. Everything else and your kid and the parent by extension are failures at life.

I don't think teachers (as a collection) do...thats why there are such an array of teachers, and it's why liberals/conservative parents complain that their children are being "indoctrinated" at schools. Parents fucking suck if they can't teach their kids to think critically -- these are people who should never have been allowed to have kids in the first place.

So, I disagree that it should be purely STEM focused. I have a PhD in nuclear engineering. I'm published in a number of peer-reviewed journals. I think liberal arts, social studies, humanities, art, music etc are a critical part of school curriculum, because if the world was entirely STEM focused it would be one of the most boring existences out there. I'm very thankful for my colleagues who aren't scientists and engineers. They help make the world a more interesting place. If our existence was purely left or right brain, how awful a world this would be.

That being said, I completely agree that the definition of "good" is such a tough one to get right. I think it's important to have well rounded curriculum through K-12 and then give someone a few years to figure out what they want to do. I disagree with the "graduate high school and jump right into college" tradition because I think most people don't know what they want to do when they're 18. I certainly didn't.

I think teaching is a hard job. Often thankless. I'm referring to the K-12 path here -- I have friends who love their jobs as professors and make a lot of money doing it, but they also work at very prestigious universities and write a lot of grants and are rewarded for it. I have friends who teach middle and high school, and that job is one that is thankless and fraught with meddling parents who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

[reznor_]

I'd hardly call teaching a "low paying job" --- most public teachers in my district make over 100k / year, get excellent benefits, a property right to their job (tenure) and a pension guarentee which typically includes health insurance for life...

I agree that you have virtually 0% chance of striking it rich, but it isn't by a stretch a bad profession to go into...especially if you are a good at it and enjoy doing it.

The real resentment in faculty rooms is usually towards mooching co-worker teachers who earn the same salary/benefits and overpaid administrators that justify by their position by interfering with teachers trying to teach.

Sounds like a very white, white-collar, wealthy family school district in the suburbs. Am I wrong?

Most public school teachers I know make far less than 100k/year. They work in cities. They buy school supplies for the kids using their own money, because the district doesn't have enough money for them. Underprivileged kids need devoted, well paid teachers too. These people teach for the love of it, and they should be compensated because it's a very hard job.

[Kief]

Truth is it comes down to cybernetics and mass mind control of the population.

You really think the elite want a well educated population capable of thinking profoundly outside of their matrix reality? Most of the United States work their asses off just to put food on the table for their family. Outside of that they don't have time to think about the bigger picture or issues of the world.

Keep 'em uneducated (even the University level is pure indoctrination with little truth) and keep 'em over worked. Things will maintain the course.

Throw in some entertainment industry special ops who are paid in the millions (Hello football, baseball, reality tv, anything meant to distract and occupy the mind.) and it's almost perfect.

Now add in the military industrial complex which oversight has been drastically reduced since the 1940's and a scientific elite culture which not only leads said device but also leads popular public opinion. And you're there.

Cybernetics folks. They consider us nothing more than a means to an end i'm afraid.

[fastboy21]

Sounds like a very white, white-collar, wealthy family school district in the suburbs. Am I wrong?

Most public school teachers I know make far less than 100k/year. They work in cities. They buy school supplies for the kids using their own money, because the district doesn't have enough money for them. Underprivileged kids need devoted, well paid teachers too. These people teach for the love of it, and they should be compensated because it's a very hard job.

Its not uncommon in the NYC/NJ area for public teachers even in the inner city to earn what I was describing. The benefits alone are a huge work package. Also, my comments weren't meant to say that teachers don't deserve more...some of them do. I was just saying that signing up to be a teacher isn't consigning yourself to living below the poverty line with no chance of retirement while standing on a bread line...it just isn't. It's a fairly respected, job secure, pension guaranteed, summers off to earn how you please...and you get to work with kids doing something you love. That hardly sounds like a life of hardship to me compared to most.

[Zal22]

What's the deal with Ovaltine?

The jar is round. The mug is round.

They should call it: 'Roundtine'.

GOLD!

[Tethler]

Public school teachers make decent money, but boy do they need to earn it. Most parents dont even want to deal with their own kids for the day, can you imagine dealing with 30+ day after day. Exhausting.

Adjunct professors though at universities, that's where the poverty teaching is at.

[Bardp1999]

People become teachers and cops and firemen because they have no real goal of what they want to do and then when they reap the benefits (or lack there of) they play the "noble public service" card to try to get a pity raise. If you want to make money get into business or sales or IT/Engineering

[reznor_]

People become teachers and cops and firemen because they have no real goal of what they want to do and then when they reap the benefits (or lack there of) they play the "noble public service" card to try to get a pity raise. If you want to make money get into business or sales or IT/Engineering

Thankfully lots of humanity isn’t like you

[hobart]

My point is, it is a low paying job, they know it is a low paying job, they go to college to get a low paying job. Then they complain that it is a low paying job. That isn't very bright.

If only teachers fit this description you might have a point.

I don't think starting teachers complain that much. I think it's that their wages don't increase by the same factor that their job gets shittier year after year thanks to budget cuts, larger class sizes, more bureaucracy,etc.

[bubur]

when i lived in alaska i met a girl who joined the local volunteer firefighter team to get dick. i cant confirm if she got dicked down good or not, but she was involved in some lifesaving, then went on to become a county disaster manager helping hundreds of people in anchorage out of shitty situations, like terrible home fires that happen every week

she's living a good life, and it was all for chasing dick in/shortly after college. i think we live in a society if you ask me

[Tethler]

If only teachers fit this description you might have a point.

I don't think starting teachers complain that much. I think it's that their wages don't increase by the same factor that their job gets shittier year after year thanks to budget cuts, larger class sizes, more bureaucracy,etc.

In many places, teachers have taken pay cuts as well. Like, 2020 take-home salary is 5% smaller than it was in 2000. I mean, if they pull in 60k they aren't starving, unless they live in San Francisco or something, but I can understand why they'd be unhappy that their job is getting harder while simultaneously making the same or less money.

[Patriam1066]

People become teachers and cops and firemen because they have no real goal of what they want to do and then when they reap the benefits (or lack there of) they play the "noble public service" card to try to get a pity raise. If you want to make money get into business or sales or IT/Engineering

Seek Christ dude, you’re going to hell if you die believing this

[peterpal]

Threads like these explain a lot about the behavior of players on this server. Sad old people.

[Nibblewitz]

Should have clarified that you are talking about public school teachers.

[FatherSioux]

People become teachers and cops and firemen because they have no real goal of what they want to do and then when they reap the benefits (or lack there of) they play the "noble public service" card to try to get a pity raise. If you want to make money get into business or sales or IT/Engineering

I would say police and firemen are more so this way. Both are low bar of entry professions that reward putting your life on the line. That’s why they pay decently, not because they are overly skilled. Teachers are different, they need education and it’s skilled. Most teachers I’ve encountered are whiny liberals. They make enough money to live comfortably. If you want to be able to reward the great teachers you need to remove unions.

[fastboy21]

People become teachers and cops and firemen because they have no real goal of what they want to do and then when they reap the benefits (or lack there of) they play the "noble public service" card to try to get a pity raise. If you want to make money get into business or sales or IT/Engineering

This is gross.

[Patriam1066]

Teachers are kind of important in a society, used car salesmen are not

Hope this helps

[FatherSioux]

Teachers are kind of important in a society, used car salesmen are not

Hope this helps

Used car salesmen can teach. Teachers can sell used cars. Literally no one thinks teachers aren’t important.

[Patriam1066]

Teaching should pay $100,000 and they should be permitted to strike children and unruly parents

And the obese
Patriam2020

[FatherSioux]

Teaching should pay $100,000 and they should be permitted to strike children and unruly parents

And the obese
Patriam2020

Start at 100k? No.

[Jibartik]

Used car salesmen can teach. Teachers can sell used cars. Literally no one thinks teachers aren’t important.

This is the type of word problem a generation raised by conservative policy thinks is intelligent.

WELCOME TO COSTCO I LOVE YOU

[FatherSioux]

WELCOME TO COSTCO I LOVE YOU

Explain your dark arts sir, how did you know I was intelligent and raised conservative based on my fun logic trick?

Costco > Sams

[Jibartik]

All Americans live under the educational system organized and managed by the republican party, democrats have done nothing but lose in that arena for 40 years.

The american education system has been under attack by republicans since Nixon.

[Gwaihir]

You could pay teachers 200k/year and they'd still be poor, albeit they would have the newest IPhone(R) and a new Macbook(R), a Tesla(R), and a Tesla(R) Charging Bay installed in the garage of their rental condo, as well as a freshly crafted Starbucks (TM) on their desk every day.

Hope this helps.

[Jibartik]

You could pay teachers 200k/year and they'd still be poor, albeit they would have the newest IPhone(R) and a new Macbook(R), a Tesla(R), and a Tesla(R) Charging Bay installed in the garage of their rental condo, as well as a freshly crafted Starbucks (TM) on their desk every day.

Hope this helps.

Not if we had economics programs starting at grade 1 but having a rational debate about education is not something that can even be done anymore thanks to the war on education that's been going on for longer than anyone reading this has been alive.

Edit: seriously we were counting beans at grade 1 why cant we count pennies? I mean other than we cant count anymore :)

[Kief]

All Americans live under the educational system organized and managed by the republican party, democrats have done nothing but lose in that arena for 40 years.

The american education system has been under attack by republicans since Nixon.

If you truly believe either party has a difference in the fundamental direction they are guiding everyone toward - you haven't been paying attention.

Regardless of the party - the same principalities are run over and over again.

It's the illusion of choice.

Here's 3 hours worth of documentation by Aaron and Melissa Dykes that is mind blowing and well worth the watch. And it really only is the tip of the iceberg so to speak.

"The Minds of Men" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQucESRF3Sg

All sourced. All documented. All verifiable.

[fastboy21]

Start at 100k? No.

In my area starting salary for a teacher with masters is just short of 90k (not including benefits package)...this is also the largest school district in the USA (New York City). If you include benefits the starting salary easily surpasses 100k...not considering that you have three months each year to pursue other income, if you desire (summers off).

The myth that teachers are poor is a lie...underpaid? maybe. But not poor by any objective standard of poverty.

The real cause of the unfair pay is, ironically, the marriage of teachers' unions to equal pay (on a schedule based on degree and experience --- and not outcomes). When everyone earns the exact same amount no matter how hard or how successful they are you breed apathy, inefficiency and incompetence (especially when teachers also, thanks to unions, have a property right to their job making it almost economically impossible to fire a teacher for poor performance).

I do believe that many real teachers suffer from being paid less than the market value of their work --- based on comparable professions with similar levels of required education and ability. The reasons for this aren't that teachers are unimportant or that society doesn't value them. Every place I've ever worked has always treated teachers with professional and social respect for the job they do with our children...the cause of it lies elsewhere, in my opinion.

If teachers ever want to tap into the power of the free market to produce better education and higher pay (for successful teachers only) they need decouple the profession from one of the most powerful unions in our country. At the very least, the unions would need to understand that many of their long advocated demands are no longer as relevant in 2020 as they were 60 years ago. This change is slow, and made virtually no progress in the last 10 years.

[Blingy]

I don't think teachers (as a collection) do...thats why there are such an array of teachers, and it's why liberals/conservative parents complain that their children are being "indoctrinated" at schools. Parents fucking suck if they can't teach their kids to think critically -- these are people who should never have been allowed to have kids in the first place.

So, I disagree that it should be purely STEM focused. I have a PhD in nuclear engineering. I'm published in a number of peer-reviewed journals. I think liberal arts, social studies, humanities, art, music etc are a critical part of school curriculum, because if the world was entirely STEM focused it would be one of the most boring existences out there. I'm very thankful for my colleagues who aren't scientists and engineers. They help make the world a more interesting place. If our existence was purely left or right brain, how awful a world this would be.

That being said, I completely agree that the definition of "good" is such a tough one to get right. I think it's important to have well rounded curriculum through K-12 and then give someone a few years to figure out what they want to do. I disagree with the "graduate high school and jump right into college" tradition because I think most people don't know what they want to do when they're 18. I certainly didn't.

I think teaching is a hard job. Often thankless. I'm referring to the K-12 path here -- I have friends who love their jobs as professors and make a lot of money doing it, but they also work at very prestigious universities and write a lot of grants and are rewarded for it. I have friends who teach middle and high school, and that job is one that is thankless and fraught with meddling parents who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

I have a habit of writing novels where a short story would work fine. I left a bunch of qualifiers out for the sake of brevity. Anyway, qualifiers to my post. The east side of King county (few miles east of Seattle) focuses very heavily on STEM. This region exists because of it. Before Microsoft set up shop we were a little bit of farm land, mining, minor commercial/retail businesses. Since the mid 1980's though when MS started gaining traction this area has boomed. We're now a major tech hub all built on STEM. Most families around here are supported by STEM. Even the non-stem people recognize the value of STEM around here. Because of this STEM is pushed by the entire local society; including the school system. It's easy to understand why it's pushed so hard around here. I've seen the same mindset in other places I've lived but with the focus in other areas. North Idaho pushed getting into the lumber or mining industry when I was in Highschool. Walla Walla had the idea that you either become a professional doctor, lawyer or take over the family farm. My elementary school years in Utah all I remember hearing about was start your own small business and grow it into a major enterprise.

If you get outside the Seattle-east King County area this mindset goes away. Although people in say Tacoma or Everett recognize STEM as a viable path those areas are also way more open minded to other ways of "winning" at life.

[Blingy]

All Americans live under the educational system organized and managed by the republican party, democrats have done nothing but lose in that arena for 40 years.

The american education system has been under attack by republicans since Nixon.

Because the NEA and education system as a whole has been on the offensive since then. If the education system will put down the grenades society will put down their pitchforks.

[Spergand]

Yes we just shouldve had blue handle it instead of red. That wouldve fixed everything.......

[Jibartik]

Because the NEA and education system as a whole has been on the offensive since then. If the education system will put down the grenades society will put down their pitchforks.

This is a biblical argument, to lay down your sword and the beast will cease eating you.

It is by no means scientific and school should be simple and scientific, church should be where you get prophetical about this type of cultural morality stuff.

Ya'll want to get rid of math and history because with it the damn creationist amusement park suffers.

Edit:

I want o be clear, I am by no means arguing Blue vs Red, I'm talking about the republican party between Nixon-Reagan erra, a major party platform and cultural trend among Americans was to defend education.

I will to this day never understand the argument, because it was this: teachers shouldn't be parents parents should

well that's great, but that doesn't mean I think orphans should just be wandering the streets like feral children.

Everyone here is old enough to remember it, I cant imagine that I'm talking to strangers here that cant all 100% agree that the, "it's cool to get bad grades" is right around the EQ generation.

Now that generation are the adults. Listen to them, everyone on the news, politicians, everyone I know, its like the kids under the bleachers in 1990 are all running the show.

I am not interested in the red vs blue fight. That fight has gotten even more crazy than this fight was. Im just talking about what I think we did to education.

[Kief]

You guys are arguing about pointless semantics at this point. Unless you get down to the reality of it all you can argue forever.

"The science of steering has the formal name of “cybernetics’ but we prefer to describe what we do as applying the science of context."
-American Society for Cybernetics

[Jibartik]

Unless you get down to the reality of it all you can argue forever.

good times make bad times
bad times make good times

It's about as simple as that! :p

[Mota]

10 year olds in China learn Algebra. "Advanced" US kids don't even start that until 12 or 13. a 17/18 year old US high school grad has about the same math skill as a 14 year old Chinese kid.

Is teacher pay an issue? For the teachers, yes. For the quality of education the kids receive, it's largely a red herring. US education is in the crapper for first world nations, and not because we don't throw enough money at it.

[Jibartik]

10 year olds in China learn Algebra. "Advanced" US kids don't even start that until 12 or 13. a 17/18 year old US high school grad has about the same math skill as a 14 year old Chinese kid.

Is teacher pay an issue? For the teachers, yes. For the quality of education the kids receive, it's largely a red herring. US education is in the crapper for first world nations, and not because we don't throw enough money at it.

I'm arguing it's because we did not throw enough money at it, when we had the chance, before all the good educators left and the system became a total dumpster fire.

[Mota]

I'm arguing it's because we did not throw enough money at it, when we had the chance, before all the good educators left and the system became a total dumpster fire.

It's a general comment, not directed at you. But again the point isn't throwing money at the right time or place. A major issue is our system is slow. It treats kids like morons who can't learn, and is compounded by the silly anti-math, anti-intellect stances large swaths of the US seem to posses.

Maybe if we shoveled money at the right time somebody would have said something about the pace of education. I dunno. But it's clear our current system lags beyond what children are capable of. If China did it with less money and more kids "the greatest country in the world" should be able to figure it out.

[Jibartik]

It's a general comment, not directed at you. But again the point isn't throwing money at the right time or place. A major issue is our system is slow. It treats kids like morons who can't learn, and is compounded by the silly anti-math, anti-intellect stances large swaths of the US seem to posses.

Maybe if we shoveled money at the right time somebody would have said something about the pace of education. I dunno. But it's clear our current system lags beyond what children are capable of. If China did it with less money and more kids "the greatest country in the world" should be able to figure it out.

Ok but hear me tout.

Throwing money at problem, does solve it. It's how we built rockets that took us to the moon, or bridges that connect trade between nations.

And I think it's important to clarify that china has thrown huge amounts of money at education, it spends 50% more per student at an elementary school level than the US does and while america spends somehere around 12k per student at a college level the Chinese goverment spends around 40-50k USD per year, so I would argue china does throw money at its problems, including education, and so china did do it, with money!

None of what mankind has achived is done without capital, from the pyramids to the rockets that will take us to mars, and if the education system had capital, all the problems you speak of can be solved, like they were in china, which has virtually no education system to speak of when the EQ generation's parents were in school.

Edit: was gonna fix tout auto correct but it is a good pun cus I am trying to sell this idea hehe

[Gwaihir]

I'm arguing it's because we did not throw enough money at it, when we had the chance, before all the good educators left and the system became a total dumpster fire.

Yeah fucking right. Throw even more money at it, and where does that money go? It goes towards special education and accessibility bullshit garnered around slowing down curriculum so that down-syndrome David can learn how to roll his poop into "spheres" instead of balls.

The curriculum at its core is all about indocrinating children with 1984-style newspeak, and reading barely coherent diatribes from a jazzy wakandan written in the civil rights era and teaching white people thwir peices of shit for jews owning 60% of the american slaves while also owning literally 100%of the slave trade ships and supply chain.

Lack of money. Ffs.

[Jibartik]

Name one thing that exists that exists because money didn't come first.

[Jibartik]

If anyone says Christianity or Buddhism... so help me. :p

[Gwaihir]

Name one thing that exists that exists because money didn't come first.

Bankrupt the government beurocracracy hoarding all of the schools actual financing. Theyre collecting enough in property taxes as it is, but their own systems are fucking them out of actually seeing that in their paychecks on the ground level. The majority of their financing is disproportionately routed toward the hierarchy of their non-teaching positions.

[Jibartik]

None of which would be a problem if they had the funding to run at a halfway decent pace.

What would you suggest could solve this problem you speak of I wonder, if not funding?

Edit: I want to circle back, this concept of bankrupting the system was the culture that I was speaking of that bankrupted the system!

Is it a dumpsterfire, yes.

Is it fixable, yea.

As other posters have said China did it, and if they did it (with money!) from way worse off than we are now, we can fix it here.

[FatherSioux]

All Americans live under the educational system organized and managed by the republican party, democrats have done nothing but lose in that arena for 40 years.

The american education system has been under attack by republicans since Nixon.

If you believe the education system leans right you are out of touch with reality beyond repair.

[Jibartik]

I have at no point said anything of the sort.

The republican parties goal is to and was at the time, remove the public education system from existence, not make it "lean" any way, that's not even the issue. They controlled its funding by stripping it every chance they could. Democrats took their allowance and then scraped together crappy programs because they had no decent minds that had any interest to because they all left to go work in other fields.

Maybe it wouldnt lean to a bunch of hippy dippy finger painting bs that angers the right so much, if there was some money in it.

I dont know why I even try, everyone has all just become a bunch of secular dispensationalists and anarchists all desperate for a collapse and you all know it.

[Mota]

Ok but hear me tout.

Throwing money at problem, does solve it. It's how we built rockets that took us to the moon, or bridges that connect trade between nations.

And I think it's important to clarify that china has thrown huge amounts of money at education, it spends 50% more per student at an elementary school level than the US does and while america spends somehere around 12k per student at a college level the Chinese goverment spends around 40-50k USD per year, so I would argue china does throw money at its problems, including education, and so china did do it, with money!

None of what mankind has achived is done without capital, from the pyramids to the rockets that will take us to mars, and if the education system had capital, all the problems you speak of can be solved, like they were in china, which has virtually no education system to speak of when the EQ generation's parents were in school.

Edit: was gonna fix tout auto correct but it is a good pun cus I am trying to sell this idea hehe

China spends about 3.5T yuan (about $520B) on our equivalent of public education. The US spends about $720B/year. China spends less than the US in absolute terms, and far less per capita. Even China's total expenses of 5T yuan, that includes college, only equals $738B. They spend as much on their whole system as the US does on K-12.

"Throw money at it" is clearly not the answer.

[Jibartik]

I'm not saying china 'as a country' runs their education system better, You cant look at overall spending, or per capita of everyone in each nation, because though poverty and access to education is a small problem in the USA, it is way more of a problem in China. You can get an idea of money's affect on education if you look at spending per student in provinces that have equal or higher funding to american public school systems, and in those examples its no contest, money talks: Their students are brighter than our students.

I'm not talking about how to run a country, but I am saying that there is a direct correlation with everything everyone here complains bout education, getting worse, the more we took money out of it.

[FatherSioux]

Private education is the answer here not more money. The government can’t handle social security or road repair. Why we think they could tackle the education system is ignorant of the facts.

I misunderstood your words to say the educational system is conservative.

[Jibartik]

Woke lock Then why do all the Chinese send their children to college in America

I was talking about K-12 but funny that you say that, the CCP spends 40-50k per student in some provinces sending college level students to schools all over the world!

Some would say this program is designed to implant spies, dissent, and businesses that would later give Chinese inverters advantages or leverage in geopolitical trade deals, but those people would be on youtube :) The CCP says it is to broaden their students horizons and bring new ideas back to the mainland.

[Jibartik]

The government can’t handle social security or road repair. Why we think they could tackle the education system is ignorant of the facts.

Ok so also police though, right? :D

[Gwaihir]

What would you suggest could solve this problem you speak of I wonder, if not funding?

Bankrupt the government beurocracracy hoarding all of the schools actual financing. Theyre collecting enough in property taxes as it is, but their own systems are fucking them out of actually seeing that in their paychecks on the ground level. The majority of their financing is disproportionately routed toward the hierarchy of their non-teaching positions.

Why do you ask me stupid ficking questions when i already gave you the answer.

[Jibartik]

I want to circle back, this concept of bankrupting the system was the culture that I was speaking of that bankrupted the system!

Is it a dumpsterfire, yes.

Is it fixable, yea.

I did respond to that specifically, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

Is the reason you're swearing at me over this because what you really want to do by bankrupting the system is run around mainstreet in a civil war?

[Mario 7]

Post proof or you're full of shit.

New york city / long island have 100k + teacher salaries

there is a 2 year wait to be a firefighter or cop on long island as well, HUGE Salary for that as well

There is a ton of truth in his post, i have been told by multiple relatives who are teachers if you go into education you do it knowing you wont make alot.

His post appears to be in the correct forum

Most of the replies here are from children

Also i would like to add most of the people who become teachers are the most out of touch fucking fools ever that have no business teaching, because all normal / sane people cant wait to get out of school to start a career and only weirdos would want to rot there forever trying to teach kids who dont give a shit stuff they dont care about, only to end up being disgruntled dickbags who cry about everything.

[Spergand]

Perverts/addicts/stunted emotionally

[Jibartik]

Funny thing, if we do end up rubber banding back to the stone age because of all this, the Simpsons will end up being the book of revelations 2.

https://i.imgur.com/EgWtal6.png

[Gwaihir]

Funny thing, if we do end up rubber banding back to the stone age because of all this, the Simpsons will end up being the book of revelations 2.

https://i.imgur.com/EgWtal6.png

Your position is to continue paying educational administrators that dont actually do any teaching bloated ceo level salaries and then come back to the populace for more money.

No

[Jibartik]

Your position is to continue paying educational administrators that dont actually do any teaching bloated ceo level salaries and then come back to the populace for more money.

No

Nah my position is for society to decide to reform the public education system by re-investing in it because I'm sick of listening to the news talk about masks being unfair and my fellow men and neighbors being like HURR DURR DIS IS REAL GUD NEWZ ME VOTE FOR IDOL.

[Mario 7]

Also teachers dont teach in most districts anymore they play videos

they are not allowed to have curriculum and teach out of teachers editions, they just stand there and wait for something to do

[Gwaihir]

Nah my position is for society to decide to reform the public education system by re-investing in it because I'm sick of listening to the news talk about masks being unfair and my fellow men and neighbors being like HURR DURR DIS IS REAL GUD NEWZ ME VOTE FOR IDOL.

Dude they already piss away the large majority of curriculum teaching people to vote like you. Even the problem sets in math have moved from being abstract to being applied, "in context" to some lame ass social justice trope.

[Jibartik]

Well, all I have to say then is if education doesn't need more money because of any of those reasons the police dont need it either!

To me it sounds like all your saying is to just give up?

[Spergand]

I'll break it to you. We're not anywhere special right now. People think space is real and elon musk is an intelligent business man. We'll be fine to go back to being a Christian nation of non losers. Currently we are a warmongering puppet nation of satanists

[Jibartik]

And that right there is exactly what I said was the reason we defunded education in the first place, because secular dispensationlaists in the name of christianity think we're on the precipice of some gog magaog thing.

[Mario 7]

Space is definitley real, we just havent been there yet

Most people still believe we landed on the moon

[Spergand]

Wow you sound really confident got proof?

[FatherSioux]

HURR DURR DIS IS REAL GUD NEWZ ME VOTE FOR IDOL.

Great tactic, ignore reality and puppet some far left junk.

If you were paying attention you would remember that at one point they told everyone masks were bad. Then they were good, most people wear masks now when they should. Now there is data coming out that masking for asymptomatic might not be a slam dunk.

Maybe quit acting like you have all the answers and have had them the whole time about a topic that experts don’t agree on.

[Patriam1066]

I'll break it to you. We're not anywhere special right now. People think space is real and elon musk is an intelligent business man. We'll be fine to go back to being a Christian nation of non losers. Currently we are a warmongering puppet nation of satanists

What am I looking at when I look up at the stars? Just curious

[FatherSioux]

What am I looking at when I look up at the stars? Just curious


Patriam1066, let me tell you something my father told me. Look at the stars. The great kings of the past look down on us from those stars... So whenever you feel alone, just remember that those kings will always be there to guide you. And so will I.

[dslaybac]

Nice cardboard house you got there OP. We get it, you've been poor your whole life and you don't value teachers. You support a dumbass president. You're 75, can you just die already please? We need more room for other people that have brains.

[charmcitysking]

Yes we just shouldve had blue handle it instead of red. That wouldve fixed everything.......

[Spergand]

What am I looking at when I look up at the stars? Just curious

Looking up at the heavens

[Jibartik]

Great tactic, ignore reality and puppet some far left junk.

I never said anything even remotely close to far left junk or implied that I was speaking about the far right.

Either way, you're doing it again. :(

Im speaking about the events that too place 40-20 years ago.

Stop trying to make this about if I like stephen crowder or not.

[Asteria]

School teachers are 110% some of the best of us! :)

[zodium]

School teachers are 110% some of the best of us! :)

võ nguyên giáp, history teacher: 1
robert strange mcnamara, mba: 0

[BlackBellamy]

What am I looking at when I look up at the stars? Just curious

God's sparkling asshole. You can see the White Taint on a moonless night.

[Patriam1066]

Teachers and nurses are under appreciated. Engineers make $250,000 10 years into a career and don’t do shit (I speak from experience). Then when you get into management you make the real bucks. If more men were teachers y’all would have different opinions. It’s a hard job trying to get y’all’s low IQ fat ass undisciplined hell spawn to learn, I commend those who endeavor to do it

[nostalgiaquest]

https://www.mtu.edu/engineering/outreach/welcome/salary/
https://online-engineering.case.edu/blog/highest-paying-engineering-jobs

Genuinely curious what field of engineering makes 250k? I've worked in major shipbuilding, nuclear power, and large scale data centers, and I've seen no such salaries outside of management positions.

We talking some crazy google software engineer?

[Blingy]

Engineers making $250k? Um, dude.....drugs are bad m'kay?

If an engineer owns a company they can make this kind of money if their specialty is in demand. For the most part even here in Seattle the regular run of the mill EE/ME/CE will top out around $170k.

[Jibartik]

Cool starting as a teacher its 30.

Lets start collecting childrens data and marketing to them based on test scores and suddenly school will be kool again.

https://i.imgur.com/uK5EuQD.gif