Hybird spells

[Duie]

Think we can get those lowered to a reasonable level? i mean lvl 255 for panic animals is a bit much :(

[Zuranthium]

Speaking of which, the Charm Animal spells should have been better for Druids and Rangers (Shaman should not get the line at all). I believe those spells should turn the charmed animal into a permanent pet, until it dies or you leave the zone. This would have to be balanced so that characters can't charm overly powerful pets in comparison to their level. It doesn't make sense that the animals should only befriend you for a short, random duration and then attack you when it wears off. This game was based upon D&D and that really goes against the entire flavor of Druids and Rangers.

Although I actually just looked up the spells that Rangers get and see the Charm Animal line missing. Am I remembering the game wrong? Or is this server not yet using the Hybrid upgrades that were implemented in the game during classic? I remember there were a long series of buffs to improve the casting abilities of hybrids. They were:

1.) Giving Hybrids MEDITATE (I know this is in the game)
2.) Increasing the mana pools of Hybrids
3.) Improving the spell selection of Hybrids (moving some spells to early levels and introducing other ones)
4.) Changing the manner in which casting spells and attacking worked within the combat engine so that when you cast a spell, it doesn't reset the timer of the last attack you were in the middle of

[Reynard_CT]

I remember Highbird! He was a mangina from CT who started Transcended Time, a guild which took the server by storm and geared up many folks who later went on to become Hellfire Club. HFC quickly became, and still is, the best guild on the server. They overtook The Relentless, Shadowed Soul, and many others.

Of course this thread seems to be more about hybrid spells, in which case you probably meant "Hybrid."

[Humwawa]

1. Server uses the ''updated" hybrid mana levels.
2. Charm Animal is no different from any other charm, and I don't care about the roleplay connotations of befriending an animal - you're throwing it at angry monsters that violate it for your pleasure, until it can't take anymore of your tyranny and goes Kunta on your ass. Roleplay that.
3. Grapes.

[Zuranthium]

2. Charm Animal is no different from any other charm, and I don't care about the roleplay connotations of befriending an animal - you're throwing it at angry monsters that violate it for your pleasure, until it can't take anymore of your tyranny and goes Kunta on your ass. Roleplay that.

LOL. But, yeah, I would argue that Charm Animal should be different from the Mesmer charm. Mesmers are exerting their will over you, forcing you to do their bidding.

When a Druid or Ranger calls upon an animal companion, it is because they are both bound to nature and the animal will do ANYTHING necessary to protect its homeland.

[Kika Maslyaka]

LOL. But, yeah, I would argue that Charm Animal should be different from the Mesmer charm. Mesmers are exerting their will over you, forcing you to do their bidding.

When a Druid or Ranger calls upon an animal companion, it is because they are both bound to nature and the animal will do ANYTHING necessary to protect its homeland.

that would be better implemented with a permanent pet for both classes, or perhaps with a swarm pet spell. Or with a dire charm type charm.
This is why I think that WoW hunters are so cool - they actually go out and TAME a pet they like.

[Ennoia]

LOL. But, yeah, I would argue that Charm Animal should be different from the Mesmer charm. Mesmers are exerting their will over you, forcing you to do their bidding.

When a Druid or Ranger calls upon an animal companion, it is because they are both bound to nature and the animal will do ANYTHING necessary to protect its homeland.

'Hey, grizzly bear, go kill that other grizzly bear over there'. Game. Set. Match.

[Messianic]

Think we can get those lowered to a reasonable level? i mean lvl 255 for panic animals is a bit much :(

That's because rangers didn't get the spell until velious. It'll be changed to the appropriate level when the time is also appropriate.

[Nagash]

Speaking of which, the Charm Animal spells should have been better for Druids and Rangers (Shaman should not get the line at all). I believe those spells should turn the charmed animal into a permanent pet, until it dies or you leave the zone. This would have to be balanced so that characters can't charm overly powerful pets in comparison to their level. It doesn't make sense that the animals should only befriend you for a short, random duration and then attack you when it wears off. This game was based upon D&D and that really goes against the entire flavor of Druids and Rangers.

Remember the very purpose of the server is to stick to EQ Classic (well, with Kunark now). Charm has never been a permanent effect. And before you say it, nothing will be changed just because it would have been better as it would defeat the purpose of the server :)

Although I actually just looked up the spells that Rangers get and see the Charm Animal line missing. Am I remembering the game wrong? Or is this server not yet using the Hybrid upgrades that were implemented in the game during classic?

Fear animal was added to the rangers spell list in Velious, don't remember them ever receiving charm animal. The shaman did but couldn't charm on par animals after level 34 (IIRC, that was a long time ago)

I remember there were a long series of buffs to improve the casting abilities of hybrids. They were:

1.) Giving Hybrids MEDITATE (I know this is in the game)

As you say it's in game :)

2.) Increasing the mana pools of Hybrids

Believe this happened during Velious.

3.) Improving the spell selection of Hybrids (moving some spells to early levels and introducing other ones)

Didn't happen before Luclin (or maybe even later) so will never be on the server.

4.) Changing the manner in which casting spells and attacking worked within the combat engine so that when you cast a spell, it doesn't reset the timer of the last attack you were in the middle of

Casting spell stopped resetting the attack timer of hybrids in Velious era IIRC

One extra thing, hybrids will stop receiving an xp penalty some time during Velious.

So all in all, yes you remember correctly, hybrids are given the shaft... They deserve it and they love it :P

Petitpas/Nagash

[guineapig]

Speaking of which, the Charm Animal spells should have been better for Druids and Rangers (Shaman should not get the line at all). I believe those spells should turn the charmed animal into a permanent pet, until it dies or you leave the zone. This would have to be balanced so that characters can't charm overly powerful pets in comparison to their level. It doesn't make sense that the animals should only befriend you for a short, random duration and then attack you when it wears off. This game was based upon D&D and that really goes against the entire flavor of Druids and Rangers.

What? :confused:
This isn't a custom EQ server.
And if you want to talk about proper roleplaying, druids shouldn't be allowed to kill any animals without completely loosing faction with their guild hall or deity or something. Let's start with that if you want to get technical. ;)

[Deathrydar]

What's a hybird?

[guineapig]

What's a hybird?

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/hybrid-car-hyper.jpg

Just add a couple swords...

[Messianic]

What's a hybird?

http://hybird.org/blog/

http://30.media.tumblr.com/IFhjXSblfq98mt90tGnFSQH2o1_400.jpg

[Deathrydar]

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/hybrid-car-hyper.jpg

Just add a couple swords...

I think that's a hybrid. I wanted to know what a hybird is!

[Deathrydar]

http://hybird.org/blog/

http://30.media.tumblr.com/IFhjXSblfq98mt90tGnFSQH2o1_400.jpg

There we go! So these guys can cast spells?

[guineapig]

There we go! So these guys can cast spells?

Oops, my bad. I'm guessing their spells have by far the coolest particle effects though I bet they don't do much other than that. :D

[Zuranthium]

Didn't happen before Luclin (or maybe even later) so will never be on the server.

Yes it did, I remember specifically.

Anyway, all of these arguments about "it's not a custom server" are annoying. Yes, it is. P1999 as it exists is not an exact replica of real EQ at any point during it's history. There were many different versions of classic EQ to begin with. Most of you can't even seem to remember the exact specifics of classic EQ. It would be best for everyone to subtly shape the game to provide the best experience possible for what EQ should be in 2011.

[guineapig]

Yes it did, I remember specifically.

Anyway, all of these arguments about "it's not a custom server" are annoying. Yes, it is. P1999 as it exists is not an exact replica of real EQ at any point during it's history. There were many different versions of classic EQ to begin with. Most of you can't even seem to remember the exact specifics of classic EQ. It would be best for everyone to subtly shape the game to provide the best experience possible for what EQ should be in 2011.

Disagree. They have been doing their best to keep up with the timeline as far as quest implementation item nerfs, spell changes etc. go.
Extensive research is done before making these decisions, and usually when a mistake is found and properly proven, it's promptly fixed.

There are plenty of servers in existence that give a develepor's idea of "what EQ should be in 2011" but this is not one of them.

[Extunarian]

Didn't happen before Luclin (or maybe even later) so will never be on the server.


Yes it did, I remember specifically.


I assume you are talking about when they tried to improve the experience for lower level players by lowering the spell levels of rez/corpse summon/lesser succor? If so, you are wrong. This happened months after luclin. Try researching instead of 'remembering.'

[Extunarian]

Anyway, all of these arguments about "it's not a custom server" are annoying. Yes, it is. P1999 as it exists is not an exact replica of real EQ at any point during it's history. There were many different versions of classic EQ to begin with. Most of you can't even seem to remember the exact specifics of classic EQ. It would be best for everyone to subtly shape the game to provide the best experience possible for what EQ should be in 2011.


If you want a druid pet so bad, get a mistwalker.

[Nagash]

Yes it did, I remember specifically.

Anyway, all of these arguments about "it's not a custom server" are annoying. Yes, it is. P1999 as it exists is not an exact replica of real EQ at any point during it's history. There were many different versions of classic EQ to begin with. Most of you can't even seem to remember the exact specifics of classic EQ. It would be best for everyone to subtly shape the game to provide the best experience possible for what EQ should be in 2011.

Rogean and the team are trying as hard as they can to recreate EQ as it was initially, not how it should be in 2011. Don't like it? Easy, you have 3 solutions:
- take a sub to EQ Live
- make your own server on EQ Emu if you think you can make a better replica of EQ as it was in 99
- go to post in Rant and Raves

I read a lot of frustration in your post because the server is not like how you want it to be. Bear in mind that it is just how 900+ other persons want it to be, most importantly, it is how Nilborg, Rogean and the team want it to be.

It is not the best experience for you? I am sorry to read that but will gladly show you the way out. It is a blast for me and the others.

By the way, next time remember two things:
1) Get your facts straight before you post, if you're not sure, at least say it
2) Rogean and Co spend 10's of hours of their personal time, that is time away from their day job, away from their families and friends to try to give us the best possible experience. For Heaven's sake, Rogean was awake all night last night to try to sort out some issues caused by a failure at the server homing centre, none of which was his fault. Do you think he didn't have to show at work today? In light of all of this, trying to go against the very essence of what they are trying to do is vcery disrespectful.

[soup]

Yes it did, I remember specifically.

Anyway, all of these arguments about "it's not a custom server" are annoying. Yes, it is. P1999 as it exists is not an exact replica of real EQ at any point during it's history. There were many different versions of classic EQ to begin with. Most of you can't even seem to remember the exact specifics of classic EQ. It would be best for everyone to subtly shape the game to provide the best experience possible for what EQ should be in 2011.

A common misunderstanding of how the server works.

The stuff that isn't classic isn't like that because the devs decided to make it be that way. It's because they start with a product that isn't classic at all, and over time turn it as classic as possible. If they could push a button and make it 100% classic, they would. They can't though, they have to meticulously code it, which takes time, which means some elements that aren't classic stay in longer than others (and some elements can't even be changed)

The goal, the target, is classic EQ. Any proposed custom changes are contradictory to that goal, and as such, wont be implemented.

[Zuranthium]

I assume you are talking about when they tried to improve the experience for lower level players by lowering the spell levels of rez/corpse summon/lesser succor? If so, you are wrong. This happened months after luclin. Try researching instead of 'remembering.'

That's not what I am talking about at all. During CLASSIC era there was a specific buff to ALL of the Hybrids' spell lists. I can't remember if it happened after Kunark or after Velious, but it was one of the 4 changes I talked about a few pages back that were made over the course of Classic to improve the Hybrids' spellcasting such that it was actually useful. If you do an Internet Archive search for Caster's Realm, you will probably find it.

[mwatt]

Yes it did, I remember specifically.

Anyway, all of these arguments about "it's not a custom server" are annoying. Yes, it is. P1999 as it exists is not an exact replica of real EQ at any point during it's history. There were many different versions of classic EQ to begin with. Most of you can't even seem to remember the exact specifics of classic EQ. It would be best for everyone to subtly shape the game to provide the best experience possible for what EQ should be in 2011.

It will be as close as is possible to the original Classic experience. Achieving this goal is limited in some cases by lack of information, in other cases by time requirements. Once you start down the slippery slope of "subtly shaping", you have diverged from the mission plan and it won't be possible to stop. That isn't what this server is about (god bless the devs) and not what 99% of us want to see happen.

[Zuranthium]

Rogean and the team are trying as hard as they can to recreate EQ as it was initially, not how it should be in 2011.

The goal, the target, is classic EQ. Any proposed custom changes are contradictory to that goal, and as such, wont be implemented.

There is no such thing as replicating the exact classic EQ from 1999-2001 in 2011. We, the player base, know far too much about the game and that drastically alters how we play it in comparison to 1999-2001. IF the Everquest of 1999-2001 had continued on to this day, I'm 100% sure that there would have been plenty of changes to improve the QUALITY and the playing experience of the game. Any change I suggest is along those lines.

As for "any proposed changes are contradictory to that goal", then why are the developers constantly entertaining notions of altering the game to provide a further experience from what existed pre-Luclin? I very much appreciate what they are doing but I believe they will have to eventually think about making alterations to p1999, if they haven't already, such that it is classic EQ but with further modifications that the ORIGINAL GAME DESIGNERS (following their original vision and not their $$$ vision) would have likely carried out themselves to improve (re)playability and fix existing issues.

[baalzy]

I really hope Zuranthium disappears when Live is back up.

He's either one of the stupidest people on the planet, or the worlds most brilliant troll.

Hey, because I can make semantic statements about how classic everquest can't even be recreated because people have knowledge (no shit sherlock) we should change it to make it the game I want to play.

This server isn't for you, shut up and go somewhere else.

Furthermore, you do realize that Guineapig is just a forum moderator? His entire 'integrating PoP into P99' thread is purely hypothetical. He has absolutely NO control over what is happening with the server. If the name ain't bright blue or red it don't mean shit (or in Nilbogs case, purple).

[Zuranthium]

I'm not talking about him, I'm talking about comments made by devs in that thread and elsewhere.

I don't play Live. I haven't played Live since 2004. Live is a piece of shit. You clearly do not understand how much I care about the classic EQ experience, so perhaps you should read this before being so ignorant - http://www.fippydarkpaw.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11640#p11640

It's not about "the game I want to play" (the game I'd ideally want to play would have an entirely different combat system than Everquest does), it's about making the game better for most everyone as the ORIGINAL GAME DEVELOPERS would have done if classic EQ had continued to exist and they had continued to stay true to the vision of the game.

[soup]

There is no such thing as replicating the exact classic EQ from 1999-2001 in 2011. We, the player base, know far too much about the game and that drastically alters how we play it in comparison to 1999-2001. IF the Everquest of 1999-2001 had continued on to this day, I'm 100% sure that there would have been plenty of changes to improve the QUALITY and the playing experience of the game. Any change I suggest is along those lines.

That's all fine and dandy that the players know too much to have a truly classic experience, but it doesn't change the fact that the goal of the developers is to recreate classic EQ as closely as possible while following the timeline up to Velious.

As for "any proposed changes are contradictory to that goal", then why are the developers constantly entertaining notions of altering the game to provide a further experience from what existed pre-Luclin? I very much appreciate what they are doing but I believe they will have to eventually think about making alterations to p1999, if they haven't already, such that it is classic EQ but with further modifications that the ORIGINAL GAME DESIGNERS (following their original vision and not their $$$ vision) would have likely carried out themselves to improve (re)playability and fix existing issues.
And where do you see all these notions being entertained? I don't see that anywhere, nor does anyone else. The only thing remotely close to what you're talking about is nilbog stating that after Velious is out for awhile perhaps doing custom content from there, since the goal of the server from the get-go was to recreate classic up to Velious. Custom shit before Velious is 100% contradictory to the goal and point of the server, and wont be here.

I mean, there's some stuff that isn't classic I (and many) people wouldn't mind seeing, but that is not the point of the server, and that's not what they will be doing.

[Kassel]

I really hope Zuranthium disappears when Live is back up.

He's either one of the stupidest people on the planet, or the worlds most brilliant troll.

[Doors]

Has to be a troll, nobody is this dumb.

[Nagash]

There is no such thing as replicating the exact classic EQ from 1999-2001 in 2011.

So because something can't be done, one shouldn't try as hard as they can to get as close as they can? Having the whole world at peace will never happen, does that mean that we should stop trying to reach it and start eviscerating each other? Zuranthium, I'm not sure if I should call you a cow with the IQ of a snail, a troll or simply someone who has a massive communication problem and can't get people to understand his point. Whatever it is, I pity you.

[Zuranthium]

You realize you're the trolls by making such empty, thoughtless, and antagonistic posts, right? Good, moving along:

And where do you see all these notions being entertained? I don't see that anywhere, nor does anyone else. The only thing remotely close to what you're talking about is nilbog stating that after Velious is out for awhile perhaps doing custom content from there, since the goal of the server from the get-go was to recreate classic up to Velious. Custom shit before Velious is 100% contradictory to the goal and point of the server, and wont be here.

You're ignoring the point. As you stated, custom content is being thought about. After "classic EQ" has been recreated up through Velious, then what happens?

The very fact that Velious or even Kunark is added actually already makes the game NOT classic EQ for many people. This game is called p1999 and yet they've already added content that came after 1999 in Everquest.

Where do you draw the line of what is classic and what isn't? The fact is that THIS game is constantly changing because Everquest was also constantly changing. You can not freeze THIS game at any specific point in time because Everquest was not frozen at any specific point in time and people prefer certain moments in time during the entire spectrum of Classic EQ over others.

[Nagash]

You realize you're the trolls by making such empty, thoughtless, and antagonistic posts, right? Good, moving along:



You're ignoring the point. As you stated, custom content is being thought about. After "classic EQ" has been recreated up through Velious, then what happens?

The very fact that Velious or even Kunark is added actually already makes the game NOT classic EQ for many people. This game is called p1999 and yet they've already added content that came after 1999 in Everquest.

Where do you draw the line of what is classic and what isn't? The fact is that THIS game is constantly changing because Everquest was also constantly changing. You can not freeze THIS game at any specific point in time because Everquest was not frozen at any specific point in time and people prefer certain moments in time during the entire spectrum of Classic EQ over others.

No one is trying to freeze it, jus trying to recreate the initial experience going from the release of the game up to Velious. It appears this last sentence is just too much information your brain to assimilate and process. I give up and simply hope Sony re-opens their server very quickly so you can go back there on their progression server. Good life to you sir.

[soup]

You realize you're the trolls by making such empty, thoughtless, and antagonistic posts, right? Good, moving along:



You're ignoring the point. As you stated, custom content is being thought about. After "classic EQ" has been recreated up through Velious, then what happens?

The very fact that Velious or even Kunark is added actually already makes the game NOT classic EQ for many people. This game is called p1999 and yet they've already added content that came after 1999 in Everquest.

Where do you draw the line of what is classic and what isn't? The fact is that THIS game is constantly changing because Everquest was also constantly changing. You can not freeze THIS game at any specific point in time because Everquest was not frozen at any specific point in time and people prefer certain moments in time during the entire spectrum of Classic EQ over others.

Are you seriously this dense?

It's called p1999, because they start from the beginning point, and follow the timeline up through Velious. All that shit by you is completely irrelevant and pointless. THE GOAL, AS STATED BY THE DEVELOPERS, is to recreate the classic EQ timeline through Velious. As this other shit you're saying has nothing to do with anything. THEY FOLLOW THE TIMELINE THROUGH VELIOUS.

It doesn't matter if you think classic EQ would be better with this or that or whatever the fuck else. The people running the server and doing all the coding and paying the bills have their goal and it has absolutely dick all to do with what you think. Classic EQ, original timeline. Stop being dense.

[Aprio]

I want to ignore him but I can't look away...

[Zuranthium]

So because something can't be done, one shouldn't try as hard as they can to get as close as they can? Having the whole world at peace will never happen, does that mean that we should stop trying to reach it and start eviscerating each other? Zuranthium, I'm not sure if I should call you a cow with the IQ of a snail, a troll or simply someone who has a massive communication problem and can't get people to understand his point.

There is no communication problem whatsoever, the only problem is the ignorance and lack of effort to engage in complex thought from many posters who are attempting to respond to what I've written.

We of course should TRY to recreate classic EQ. But, as I just said in my other post, "What IS classic EQ?" There is no specific thing you can point at. You can try to recreate a specific moment in time of EQ, but then if you linger there for too long it stops being EQ because the very nature of EQ was that it was changing. That's the whole point of having a living, breathing fantasy World.

What people want is the immersion of the classic EQ experience. They want to literally EVER-quest. In original EQ, new content was added because that was what the developers thought of at the time to keep the game moving perpetually. There are ways that you can keep just the pre-Luclin zones and have the game still moving perpetually. You need to completely mix up item drops so that nobody is ever sure where an item drops in the game and you need to continually change spawns and the way MOBs interact, such that players are never exactly sure what to expect in any given area they ADVENTURE to.

Years down the road on this server, when people have "completed" all the content up through Velious, there will be constant requests for more content. It's going to happen. You can add new zones or you can work on making the game constantly FLUID such that the content of the existing zones is always changing. That was the original point of EQ, the developers just weren't fully aware of how to make it happen. EQ was a first-time thing, after all. They created magic but, like a fledgling spellcaster, they didn't yet understand how to sustain it.

[soup]

We of course should TRY to recreate classic EQ. But, as I just said in my other post, "What IS classic EQ?" There is no specific thing you can point at. You can try to recreate a specific moment in time of EQ, but then if you linger there for too long it stops being EQ because the very nature of EQ was that it was changing. That's the whole point of having a living, breathing fantasy World.



ORIGINAL TIMELINE

It's not frozen in time, hence why they follow a timeline. You know, you may have noticed how Kunark came out only a couple months ago. You may have noticed they have stuff like Fungi Robes dropping with the +15 regen that they intend on nerfing pretty soon, as happened on live. It's called following the timeline.

[Zuranthium]

ORIGINAL TIMELINE

It's not frozen in time, hence why they follow a timeline. You know, you may have noticed how Kunark came out only a couple months ago. You may have noticed they have stuff like Fungi Robes dropping with the +15 regen that they intend on nerfing pretty soon, as happened on live. It's called following the timeline.

You're not listening to the very important point I'm making. Which is: the timeline will run out. And then what?

Moreover, people are constantly joining this server. Not everyone is getting to experience the same "timeline". The people who just started playing this week have already missed pre-Kunark Everquest. Therefore, the entire game experience is already far different for them than the people who started playing the game 1 year ago.

[soup]

You're not listening to the very important point I'm making. Which is: the timeline will run out. And then what?

Moreover, people are constantly joining this server. Not everyone is getting to experience the same "timeline". The people who just started playing this week have already missed pre-Kunark Everquest. Therefore, the entire game experience is already far different for them than the people who started playing the game 1 year ago.

When the timeline runs out they will cross that bridge when they get to it. They have plenty on their plate that they don't need to be worrying about some point a year or two down the road. Hell, from what I understand, nilbog (lead dev) has much more important shit to worry about IRL at the moment than what's going on with upcoming content patches, such as epics.

If you're just talking about ideas for once the timeline runs out, you should make it more clear, because everyone here seems to think you're advocating custom shit prior to the timeline running out. If that's solely what you mean, so be it, be more clear about it.

As far as people starting recently not getting the day 1 experience, well that sucks for them, the servers goal isn't to recreate classic for each and every person, or any specific person. It's to have a server that follows the original timeline as closely as possible and people can come and go as they please. It's not a difficult concept.

[Kika Maslyaka]

the thread started by Zuranthium is not much different than the PoP thread started by Guineapig - it just Zuranthium more concern with classes than zones and mobs.

While I don't care what the devs plan to do with the server past the Velious timeline, I too believe that "spirit of eq" is more important that technical details of "following the timeline"

I too have been a devoted eq player from 99 to 04, but there were things I wanted to change since the day 1, I knew some things could be done better.

[Doors]

So you want the classes balanced better right now, because in years this emu server will get stale due to lack of new content. Gotcha.

[Zuranthium]

When the timeline runs out they will cross that bridge when they get to it.

This is like saying "We won't make buildings to be resistant to Earthquakes, we'll just let them happen and then figure out what to do about the mess."

Let's demonize someone who has FORESIGHT! I'm trying to address problems so they can be fixed.

As far as people starting recently not getting the day 1 experience, well that sucks for them, the servers goal isn't to recreate classic for each and every person, or any specific person. It's to have a server that follows the original timeline as closely as possible and people can come and go as they please. It's not a difficult concept.

I'm not sure you understand the concept of "time". It actually IS a far more complex concept than you are trying to make it out to be. Time is entirely affected by viewpoint. With this server "following the timeline", it means something completely different depending on when you start. Eventually that timeline will run out as well and then the server will no longer be "following the original timeline." You would have to restart the server over from the very beginning or else it would automatically be deviating from its "intended" purpose; I sure hope they have a ton of backup files saved!

Although that's actually kind of an interesting notion, as it would mirror the constantly expanding+contracting, cyclical theory of the universe. Wheeee!

[soup]

This is like saying "We won't make buildings to be resistant to Earthquakes, we'll just let them happen and then figure out what to do about the mess."

Let's demonize someone who has FORESIGHT! I'm trying to address problems so they can be fixed.



I'm not sure you understand the concept of "time". It actually IS a far more complex concept than you are trying to make it out to be. Time is entirely affected by viewpoint. With this server "following the timeline", it means something completely different depending on when you start. Eventually that timeline will run out as well and then the server will no longer be "following the original timeline." You would have to restart the server over from the very beginning or else it would automatically be deviating from its "intended" purpose; I sure hope they have a ton of backup files saved!

Although that's actually kind of an interesting notion, as it would mirror the constantly expanding+contracting, cyclical theory of the universe. Wheeee!

The timeline is from the viewpoint of the server. Trying to bring relativity into this is... asinine at best.

[soup]

Oh, and the earthquake analogy is horribly retarded. Don't even know what to say to that.

[Zuranthium]

So you want the classes balanced better right now, because in years this emu server will get stale due to lack of new content. Gotcha.

I'm glad you brought this up and it's easy to see how you would misunderstand.

Given that "the timeline" WILL run out and that every player is already experiencing "the timeline" in a different manner, I do think it would be beneficial to implement changes before "the timeline" expires. Eventually changes will need to be made to the game and I say that you might as well makes changes to existing problems sooner rater than later. After all, the problems that are present will not suddenly change when "the timeline" expires. The only thing that will change is peoples' perception. Right now, it's as if many people are taking the timeline as THE WORD OF GOD. My hope is that people will have the clarity to see why such a thing is absurd. It's essentially the same case as people in the real World who take the Bible literally.

Or, if you do believe that strongly in following "the timeline", then at least listen to what I have to say for when the day of its demise comes.

While I don't care what the devs plan to do with the server past the Velious timeline, I too believe that "spirit of eq" is more important that technical details of "following the timeline"

I too have been a devoted eq player from 99 to 04, but there were things I wanted to change since the day 1, I knew some things could be done better.

Exactly. An artist should be constantly improving their craft.

Everquest is a work of art. You can't try to duplicate a Picasso and pass it off as your own. You can only LEARN from that other work of art and attempt to do something better yourself.

[soup]

I'm glad you brought this up and it's easy to see how you would misunderstand.

Given that "the timeline" WILL run out and that every player is already experiencing "the timeline" in a different manner, I do think it would be beneficial to implement changes before "the timeline" expires. Eventually changes will need to be made to the game and I say that you might as well makes changes to existing problems sooner rater than later. After all, the problems that are present will not suddenly change when "the timeline" expires. The only thing that will change is peoples' perception. Right now, it's as if many people are taking the timeline as THE WORD OF GOD. My hope is that people will have the clarity to see why such a thing is absurd. It's essentially the same case as people in the real World who take the Bible literally.

Or, if you do believe that strongly in following "the timeline", then at least listen to what I have to say for when the day of its demise comes.



Exactly. An artist should be constantly improving their craft.

Everquest is a work of art. You can't try to duplicate a Picasso and pass it off as your own. You can only LEARN from that other work of art and attempt to do something better yourself.

The error in your logic is you don't get to define what is a "problem", the developers do. They define problems as anything that isn't classic. If it's not classic, it's a problem. If it's classic, it's not a problem.

[Shadey]

The error in your logic is you don't get to define what is a "problem", the developers do. They define problems as anything that isn't classic. If it's not classic, it's a problem. If it's classic, it's not a problem.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. And the meaning of what is "classic" differs with each person's point of view and experience.

[soup]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. And the meaning of what is "classic" differs with each person's point of view and experience.

The classic timeline doesn't change based on point of view or experience. Doesn't matter when you started or how long you played, manastones dropped for a bit, then stopped dropping. Doesn't matter when you started playing or for how long, Kunark came after original EQ, and Velious came after Kunark. Doesn't matter when you started playing or for how long, Fungi Robes had +15 regen for a couple months after Kunark release and then it was removed. etc.

[Shadey]

The classic timeline doesn't change based on point of view or experience. Doesn't matter when you started or how long you played, manastones dropped for a bit, then stopped dropping. Doesn't matter when you started playing or for how long, Kunark came after original EQ, and Velious came after Kunark. Doesn't matter when you started playing or for how long, Fungi Robes had +15 regen for a couple months after Kunark release and then it was removed. etc.

Yup and Luclin came after Velious and so on and so on. Is there a point there? And each person has their own vision of what a classic timeline is. Mine includes luclin which was the last great something for all player types expac. Without all the instancing junk and massively increased exp and easy rewards.

So see there is a different point of view on what is classic. And my timeline differs from yours. Is yours right or is mine right? Well each is right for each of us as each have the own OPINION!

[soup]

Yup and Luclin came after Velious and so on and so on. Is there a point there? And each person has their own vision of what a classic timeline is. Mine includes luclin which was the last great something for all player types expac.

So see there is a different point of view on what is classic. And my timeline differs from yours. Is yours right or is mine right? Well each is right for each of us as each have the own OPINION!

The correct timeline is day 1 EQ through Velious, as said by the developers who do all the coding for the server and pay the bills. It's not a matter of opinion here, it's a matter of what the people running the show say is their goal. The classic timeline through Velious is their goal at the moment. Whatever your (or my) opinion is on what constitutes classic is beyond irrelevant.

[Shadey]

The correct timeline is day 1 EQ through Velious, as said by the developers who do all the coding for the server and pay the bills. It's not a matter of opinion here, it's a matter of what the people running the show say is their goal. The classic timeline through Velious is their goal at the moment. Whatever your (or my) opinion is on what constitutes classic is beyond irrelevant.

The correct classic eq timeline for me is Day 1 through Luclin. If it doesn't happen here thats ok. I still love the server. :) But thats my opinion. And everyone is entitled to their opinion no matter what you say or feel.

[Zuranthium]

Doesn't matter when you started or how long you played, manastones dropped for a bit, then stopped dropping. Doesn't matter when you started playing or for how long, Fungi Robes had +15 regen for a couple months after Kunark release and then it was removed.

Yes, and trying to re-live all of those bad occurrences in time would be like a government telling their denizens that they were going to "return the country to its former glory" by implementing all of the laws the country had during a past point in time when the economy was better. Sorry everyone, but SLAVERY is back! Just deal with it! That's how it used to be and that's how we are going to do it again!

The error in your logic is you don't get to define what is a "problem", the developers do.

Luckily, the developers are humans. They are not gravity or the rotational spin of the Earth. They can be influenced. Thus, I am trying to engage in intellectual discourse with other human beings who have the capacity to do so.

[Kika Maslyaka]

well this is one of those cases when its easier to create a new Solar System out of the void, rather than to change gravity on Earth :)

(HINT : custom server is the answer ;) )

[soup]

The correct classic eq timeline for me is Day 1 through Luclin. If it doesn't happen here thats ok. I still love the server. :) But thats my opinion. And everyone is entitled to their opinion no matter what you say or feel.

You can have an opinion on what you do or don't like, sure, but it's irrelevant in the context of the server, since the servers goal is to follow the EQ day 1 through Velious timeline. It doesn't matter if suchandsuch class is too weak, or if suchandsuch zone sucks and isn't worth it, or whatever. What is classic in the context of the server is not a matter of opinion.

[soup]

Yes, and trying to re-live all of those bad occurrences in time would be like a government telling their denizens that they were going to "return the country to its former glory" by implementing all of the laws the country had during a past point in time when the economy was better. Sorry everyone, but SLAVERY is back! Just deal with it! That's how it used to be and that's how we are going to do it again!
This is dumb. If you think classic is slavery, then don't play. No one can make you a slave to the server.



Luckily, the developers are humans. They are not gravity or the rotational spin of the Earth. They can be influenced. Thus, I am trying to engage in intellectual discourse with other human beings who have the capacity to do so.
You're wasting your breathe. They don't care what you or I or whoever thinks would be a better experience than classic. At all. Not a tiny bit. They have their goal of following the day 1 through Velious original timeline, and anything you suggest past that is as productive as dreaming about winning the lottery.

[Shadey]

You can have an opinion on what you do or don't like, sure, but it's irrelevant in the context of the server, since the servers goal is to follow the EQ day 1 through Velious timeline. It doesn't matter if suchandsuch class is too weak, or if suchandsuch zone sucks and isn't worth it, or whatever. What is classic in the context of the server is not a matter of opinion.

You never know what will happen when all of velious is implemented. Just like SOE kept saying this is the last expac for over 5 expansions and have done so in both eq1 and eq2. LMAO.

And one last question. How do you think this server came to be? It was probably from a discussion the developers had and they each gave their "opinion" on what they would like to do and they constructed an outline of how they will do it from that discussion. Hmmmm Makes ya think eh? :D

[Hamahakki]

Whether or not giving hybrids more powerful spells would make the game "better" is completely meaningless.

The purpose of this server is to recreate the original Everquest timeline as faithfully as possible, a fact which Zuranthium is ignoring because he would prefer it if the developers changed p1999 into his idea of a perfect EQ.

Some of his suggestions probably would make the game "better," but it just doesn't matter. That is not what Project 1999 is about.

[soup]

You never know what will happen when all of velious is implemented. Just like SOE kept saying this is the last expac for over 5 expansions and have done so in both eq1 and eq2. LMAO.

And one last question. How do you think this server came to be? It was probably from a discussion the developers had and they each gave their "opinion" on what they would like to do and they constructed an outline of how they will do it from that discussion. Hmmmm Makes ya think eh? :D

...no one ever claimed to know what would happen when Velious is fully implemented. What is known is that the goal is following the original timeline as closely as possible up through Velious. Do anything custom at this point is 100% counterproductive to their goal.

[Zuranthium]

You're wasting your breathe.

Only on you, and anyone else who can't comprehend mathematical and/or judicious and/or creative thought.

You are not the overlord of the developers' minds. Don't presume to tell me what they will do. They will do what they damn well please and their course of action will likely be influenced by the community, even if only minutely. I'm free to share my thoughts and if you don't like it then either stop responding to my posts with your useless blabber or start responding with reasoning as to why you believe my ideas for the game are good or bad (for after "the timeline" has expired, since you can't come to terms with the possibility of anything being altered in such a way as to not take "the timeline" as the Word of God).

[Shadey]

...no one ever claimed to know what would happen when Velious is fully implemented. What is known is that the goal is following the original timeline as closely as possible up through Velious. Do anything custom at this point is 100% counterproductive to their goal.

And no one knows exactly what fixes will be contained in upcoming patches and releases and how Velious will be delivered entirely. But i'm glad we have you to speak for the developers.

[soup]

Only on you, and anyone else who can't comprehend mathematical and/or judicious and/or creative thought.

You are not the overlord of the developers' minds. Don't presume to tell me what they will do. They will do what they damn well please and their course of action will likely be influenced by the community, even if only minutely. I'm free to share my thoughts and if you don't like it then either stop responding to my posts with your useless blabber or start responding with reasoning as to why you believe my ideas for the game are good or bad (for after "the timeline" has expired, since you can't come to terms with the possibility of anything being altered in such a way as to not take "the timeline" as the Word of God).
Still, missing, the point.

It has nothing to do with what is a good or bad idea. If you came up with some idea that 100% of the players thought was perfect, garnering an unprecedented unanimous approval from the thousands of players, it wouldn't matter. Good idea or bad idea is irrelevant.

What you're doing is akin to going into someone's house and telling them what you think would be good ways to redecorate, then when it's pointed out to you that they had a specific goal in mind for the decorating, you still carry on demanding an explanation as to why your ideas are bad ideas. It doesn't matter if your ideas are bad ideas, good ideas, or wonderful ideas. They have a goal, and anything not conducive to that goal is counterproductive.

[Doors]

I'm not misunderstanding anything. You changed your argument once everyone shit on your idea of balancing the classes, because if hybrids were more equal to pure classes, then pure classes would become useless. Regardless rebalancing the classes so classic EQ is better, in your opinion, is not classic everquest.

Now everyones just lost in your meme's and stupid analogies and you're going on about whats going to happen after velious gets old.

[Shadey]

Still, missing, the point.

It has nothing to do with what is a good or bad idea. If you came up with some idea that 100% of the players thought was perfect, garnering an unprecedented unanimous approval from the thousands of players, it wouldn't matter. Good idea or bad idea is irrelevant.

What you're doing is akin to going into someone's house and telling them what you think would be good ways to redecorate, then when it's pointed out to you that they had a specific goal in mind for the decorating, you still carry on demanding an explanation as to why your ideas are bad ideas. It doesn't matter if your ideas are bad ideas, good ideas, or wonderful ideas. They have a goal, and anything not conducive to that goal is counterproductive.

That is exactly what is trying to be created here that eq1 lost. A "community" and with a community come the voices of the community. Like it or not. You can't say they are irrelevant. You can disagree with their viewpoint and offer counterpoints. But they aren't irrelevant.

[soup]

That is exactly what is trying to be created here that eq1 lost. A "community" and with a community come the voices of the community. Like it or not. You can't say they are irrelevant. You can disagree with their viewpoint and offer counterpoints. But they aren't irrelevant.

You're confused. The voices of the community ARE irrelevant, because the dev's have their goal that has absolutely nothing to do with you, or me, or everyone else and what we want. It's replicating the original timeline. It doesn't matter if 100% of the population wants to see beastmasters or w/e added during Kunark, it wont happen. Doesn't matter if 100% of the population wants to see some class revamp, it wont happen.

Once you figure in that no matter what you WONT get 100% approval on an idea, it's even more obvious that these custom ideas have no place here anytime soon.

[Hamahakki]

What I see is a person who loved classic EQ very much, and has spent years playing it and more years thinking about what made it so good, what caused its decline, and what could be done to recreate the good old days.

He discovered p1999 (probably because SOE servers are down) and saw a possible outlet for his ideas, so he came and wrote his ideas in long, well-written and (for the most part) well-thought out posts on this board.

However, Project 1999 isn't really the place for these ideas as this server already has a firm goal and it is not "create the perfect MMORPG" or even "create a perfect version of Everquest." It's "recreate Everquest exactly, flaws and all."

The denizens of this board informed him of this fact, and he has chosen to disregard it because that would mean acknowledging that it's pointless to suggest changes to the game.

Basically, he started with good intentions, the members here informed him of some disappointing truths, and he ignored them and charged forward.

[Zuranthium]

I'm not misunderstanding anything.

Yes you are.

You changed your argument once everyone shit on your idea of balancing the classes, because if hybrids were more equal to pure classes, then pure classes would become useless. Regardless rebalancing the classes so classic EQ is better, in your opinion, is not classic everquest.

I haven't changed my argument at all; WHERE did I say hybrids should be balanced any differently than they were in Velious-era Everquest (other than my ideas on Charm Animal and how that relates to Rangers, which is separate from what is being talked about right now)? Stop putting words in my mouth just because you can't follow the topic of discussion and the multitude of points I am bringing to the table.

It has nothing to do with what is a good or bad idea.

Yes it does. "The Timeline" will eventually run its course and the game will likely not remain exactly as it was the day before Luclin was released. Obviously, you simply can not handle this thought. Therefore, like I said, stop replying to me.

[Hamahakki]

I haven't changed my argument at all; WHERE did I say hybrids should be balanced any differently than they were in Velious-era Everquest (other than my ideas on Charm Animal and how that relates to Rangers, which is separate from what is being talked about right now)? Stop putting words in my mouth just because you can't follow the topic of discussion and the multitude of points I am bringing to the table.

He's not putting words in your mouth, Page 4 of this thread is where you switched from "It would be best for everyone to subtly shape the game to provide the best experience possible for what EQ should be in 2011." to suggesting changes to the game to take place solely post-Velious.

[username17]

So you want to hash out and discuss possible changes for after the timeline has ended, Velious has been released, saturated and the Devs look to add new content?

I think you're about 3-4 years ahead of the curve here.

There is no point in discussing changes that are not in line with the goal of this project until the Dev's ask for input.

[Shadey]

You're confused. The voices of the community ARE irrelevant, because the dev's have their goal that has absolutely nothing to do with you, or me, or everyone else and what we want. It's replicating the original timeline. It doesn't matter if 100% of the population wants to see beastmasters or w/e added during Kunark, it wont happen. Doesn't matter if 100% of the population wants to see some class revamp, it wont happen.

Once you figure in that no matter what you WONT get 100% approval on an idea, it's even more obvious that these custom ideas have no place here anytime soon.

Your the one that is confused and irrelevant! As you have no understanding of holding a discussion on a topic. Just your narrow minded view you wish to impose. And that is rejected entirely.

Oh and I'm not defending weather this topic or ideas is right or wrong. Just his right to put forth his opinion and discuss his ideas. We don't live in a communist country where we cannot discuss our ideas openly.

[Zuranthium]

He's not putting words in your mouth, Page 4 of this thread is where you switched from "It would be best for everyone to subtly shape the game to provide the best experience possible for what EQ should be in 2011." to suggesting changes to the game to take place solely post-Velious.

I didn't switch at all, unless you've missed my metaphors and/or everything I said on page 5. I specifically said changes should be made to the game that don't follow the exact timeline, WHILE the supposed timeline is happening.

I simply went on to further explain my opinion, stating what would happen after "the timeline" expires, changes that should be made after "the timeline" expires, and why those changes would be even better to implement BEFORE "the timeline" expires.

I think you're about 3-4 years ahead of the curve here.

* Only if the developers are not in fact following "the timeline". Kunark was introduced to p1999 a few months ago, yes? That means Velious should come out in six months, which means "the timeline" should end in a total of 1 year and 6 months, seeing as that would be when Luclin would have come out.

* Planning ahead is bad? Not on my watch!

[enatomi]

Everquest is a work of art. You can't try to duplicate a Picasso and pass it off as your own. You can only LEARN from that other work of art and attempt to do something better yourself.

What a retarded statement. This server isn't about "creativity" or "optimization". The point is to recreate Everquest exactly how it was, so we can relive the feelings we experienced on Live - including the frustrations, imbalances, problems, etc. It was all part of the classic experience then, and you can't change it now.

Maybe some of your suggestions would have made for a all around better experience the first time around, but that's irrelevant to p1999 - if they were implemented now they would go against what this server is about.

[Zuranthium]

What a retarded statement. This server isn't about "creativity" or "optimization". The point is to recreate Everquest exactly how it was, so we can relive the feelings we experienced on Live - including the frustrations, imbalances, problems, etc. It was all part of the classic experience then, and you can't change it now.

You CAN'T relive the feelings you experienced on Live by going about it in this manner. It's like saying you want to relive having sex for the first time by hooking up with a 16 year old girl when you are 50 years old. Doesn't work that way.

Look at people asking "where do I hunt???" and players answering with a gigantic list of exactly where they should go, exactly what they should hunt, and how they should do it. That is not classic Everquest.

You can never get the exact same thing back, you can only get the same type of feeling. And that is why I am posting here - because I DO believe in the classic EQ experience and I feel that I know how to recreate the classic EQ experience such that, in 2011 and beyond, we will have a game where we feel LIKE we did about the game during the classic era.

[soup]

* Only if the developers are not in fact following "the timeline". Kunark was introduced to p1999 a few months ago, yes? That means Velious should come out in six months, which means "the timeline" should end in a total of 1 year and 6 months, seeing as that would be when Luclin would have come out.

* Planning ahead is bad? Not on my watch!

Except that these people do this in their free time. It's not like a perfectly classic version of Velious is sitting there waiting to be enabled. They have to make things right first, which takes a LOT of time. I don't know how familiar you are with coding, but that shit takes a lot of work.

As for planning ahead, that's fine and dandy, except the developers have their plates full, and you aren't involved in any kind of planning process.

People are here to play classic EQ, but you want to put in custom changes to make things "better" because you want to play some ideal version of EQ on the server with a large population. You could go try to setup your own ideal version of EQ and try to get people to play there if you want. Or you can accept what the goal of this server is.

[soup]

In essence, what you're doing is asking them to change their goal. Why don't you go to the forums for one of the custom servers and offer suggestions, since those places don't have the goal of following the original timeline? If you want to offer advice or input, it's probably better to stick with stuff that isn't asking them to change their goal.

[Zuranthium]

In essence, what you're doing is asking them to change their goal.

Usually a good thing to do after you realize your goal is impossible.

And, no, I'm not specifically saying they need to change their goal. If people want to try and experience EQ exactly as it was, then be my guest. I guarantee you will fail, but you can try. And once "the timeline" runs out changes will need to be made and/or content will need to be added. So, again, if you do not want to participate in thinking ahead, you should really just go log into the game right now and stop posting.

In actuality, you probably ARE playing the game right now and minimizing during downtime to do other things on the internet. Hey, guess what, that is not classic EQ.

[username17]

The goal of p1999 is not to provide a classic experience.
The goal is to provide a Day 1 - Velious server on the same time line as Live.
This is absolutely possible.

As stated before, everyone's 'classic' experience is different. People come and go, join late, join early, etc. It's up to the players to experience the game how they please

The devs are here are to provide a means, the end is up to the player.

[Zuranthium]

The devs are here are to provide a means.

Exactly, it just needs to be established what means are necessary to achieve the desired result.

[username17]

By what means? They stick to the goal by not making random changes that are proven to have NOT existed at our current point in the time line.

Any/all changes are verified and proven to have existed on Live at our specific point in the time line.
Suggestions for changing things to mirror that which was NOT on live is pointless and a waste of time.

Edit: No one cares about your suggestions because we are too busy enjoying our classic experience.
(Forgive me here for speaking as the whole) When the time comes that we have reached the end of our journey and done everything there is to do, then we can discuss making non-classic changes.

[soup]

Usually a good thing to do after you realize your goal is impossible.

And, no, I'm not specifically saying they need to change their goal. If people want to try and experience EQ exactly as it was, then be my guest. I guarantee you will fail, but you can try. And once "the timeline" runs out changes will need to be made and/or content will need to be added. So, again, if you do not want to participate in thinking ahead, you should really just go log into the game right now and stop posting.

In actuality, you probably ARE playing the game right now and minimizing during downtime to do other things on the internet. Hey, guess what, that is not classic EQ.
And hey, guess what, the server isn't about catering a classic experience to each player. It's about recreating the original EQ timeline. That is the goal, and any suggesting in regards to custom content is counterproductive to that goal. So by suggesting these stuff you are either asking them to change their goal, or ignore it to make you happy. Both are pointless and bordering on rude. They have a goal. Recreate the original EQ timeline. If you want to help, find stuff that isn't classic, find evidence to show what would make it classic, then submit your evidence. Anything past that is just a pipe dream.

Why aren't you going to servers that have a custom experience as their goal and offering your suggestions there? Why do you come to the server that has a goal of recreating the classic timeline and propose non-classic additions, when there are servers specifically for custom content? Oh, right, because you want YOUR vision of the best EQ to be thrown onto this server because this is where everyone is playing. Why is everyone playing here? Because it's recreating classic EQ, not making some custom version.

[Zuranthium]

Why is everyone playing here? Because it's recreating classic EQ, not making some custom version.

Yes, everyone wants to relive the glory days. People think that because EQ is being recreated in paint-by-the-book fashion, they will get the same experience as before (or be able to experience what they heard about and missed out on). I'm simply arguing that such a thing is not the case and I'm completely sure everyone would still want to play on this server if there were minor deviations made from the paint-by-the-book model that would improve the product and in fact create MORE of a classic EQ experience.

[Nagash]

And each person has their own vision of what a classic timeline is.

Nope, the timeline of EQ is very well defined. The only specifics of this server is that the developpers decided they would stop at Velious, no Luclin, PoP or whatever came after. What will happen once Velious has been released and explored is anyone's guess but the dev will probably not consider or think about this for the time being as they have to get Velious out first which will probably take them a year or two.

Remember they are real persons with real lifes, families, a job etc, not professional dev for whom developping EQ is a job that earns them a living. The time they can dedicate to the server is invested into making sure it works as intended a developping what is their vision of the server. They probably won't have any time to think about what could keep them busy in a few years time.

[enatomi]

I'm simply arguing that such a thing is not the case and I'm completely sure everyone would still want to play on this server if there were minor deviations made from the paint-by-the-book model that would improve the product and in fact create MORE of a classic EQ experience.

Tell me though how your suggestions move anyway at all towards more of a classic EQ experience. By implementing aspects that were never found in live, you are moving in the opposite direction.

[Nagash]

People think that because EQ is being recreated in paint-by-the-book fashion, they will get the same experience as before (or be able to experience what they heard about and missed out on).

How do you manage to read people's mind in order to know what they think? Even if you guess (and then it's just a guess) by reading the forum, the number of posters here is only a tiny percentage of the number of players playing on the server. Considering it as representative is being grossly mislead.

I'm simply arguing that such a thing is not the case and I'm completely sure everyone would still want to play on this server if there were minor deviations made from the paint-by-the-book model that would improve the product and in fact create MORE of a classic EQ experience.

So if we come back to your initial post, from you perspective, changing the way charm works to make it permanent is a minor deviation? Man, what is it you're smoking? I want the same stuff, it looks quite potent :)

[Widan]

The goal of p1999 is not to provide a classic experience.
The goal is to provide a Day 1 - Velious server on the same time line as Live.
This is absolutely possible.


Hey man sorry to be the one to tell you this, but this goal failed long ago. They are implementing content as quick as they can with limited resources, but the timeline is much longer here than it was on live.

[Zuranthium]

Tell me though how your suggestions move anyway at all towards more of a classic EQ experience. By implementing aspects that were never found in live, you are moving in the opposite direction.

Does nobody listen, does nobody learn???

The "classic EQ experience" is something that can not be reattained here and now, in 2011, by playing the game exactly as it was designed 11-12 years ago. The only way you can do that, or come the closest to it anyway, is by taking the content of EQ and shaping with the expertise, wisdom, and a passion for what the game was supposed to be. "Classic Everquest" itself was something that could have been improved upon, without changing the feel of the game at all. We didn't care about the flaws at the time because it was a one-of-a-kind game, a completely new experience, and we were enraptured.

So if we come back to your initial post, from you perspective, changing the way charm works to make it permanent is a minor deviation? Man, what is it you're smoking? I want the same stuff, it looks quite potent :)

Not charm, only Charm Animal. It's a spell that is useless in many areas, certainly for the higher end content, as there aren't any animals to charm in those zones. And, as it stands in current form, it's pretty useless even in areas where it can be used because of the cost (it's an expensive spell and must be recast frequently) and time spent having to constantly re-charm (it takes much longer to cast than the Enchanter charms of the same level) and the danger of the charmed animal suddenly breaking and killing you if you're prone.

Changing it to what I described (permanent charm of the animal until you zone, but with a lower level cap) would be completely in the flavor of Rangers and Druids and actually make the skill usable in select areas (always outdoor, which is again in the flavor of Rangers and Druids).

[enatomi]

Does nobody listen, does nobody learn???

The "classic EQ experience" is something that can not be reattained here and now, in 2011, by playing the game exactly as it was designed 11-12 years ago. The only way you can do that, or come the closest to it anyway, is by taking the content of EQ and shaping with the expertise, wisdom, and a passion for what the game was supposed to be. "Classic Everquest" itself was something that could have been improved upon, without changing the feel of the game at all. We didn't care about the flaws at the time because it was a one-of-a-kind game, a completely new experience, and we were enraptured.

We're listening, but you are not making sense.

This is what I'm asking about.
I'm simply arguing that such a thing is not the case and I'm completely sure everyone would still want to play on this server if there were minor deviations made from the paint-by-the-book model that would improve the product and in fact create MORE of a classic EQ experience.

How do your ideas "in face create MORE of a classic EQ experience." To most people, "a classic EQ experience" consists of playing EQ as it was back when it started and up until Luclin/PoP which took away a huge chunk of "classic" aspects. This isn't some deep, artful shit. This is just playing the game as it was.

[Hamahakki]

If people want to try and experience EQ exactly as it was, then be my guest.

Most sensible thing he's said yet.

[Doors]

multitude of points I am bringing to the table.


I am being trolled hard.

[Zuranthium]

How do your ideas "in face create MORE of a classic EQ experience." To most people, "a classic EQ experience" consists of playing EQ as it was back when it started and up.

How can I make myself more clear:

You are not playing EQ as it was when it started up, not even close, simply by using the exact same in-game numbers on everything.

The original EQ experience is not in the exact coding of how the game was, but the driving IDEA behind the game and the way people played it. The point of classic Everquest was exactly as the title says - to quest endlessly. The focus of the game should be making players explore, making players fear for their lives anywhere they go that isn't specifically a safe zone, and making players discover and invent new things.

Pray tell, how many people bothered to try and do trade skills (aside from Jewel Crafting) when they started playing on this server? Having a full set of leather armor on a lower level character was considered a great accomplishment in 1999.

If people want to try and experience EQ exactly as it was, then be my guest.Most sensible thing he's said yet.

Too bad you factually can NOT play Everquest exactly as it was. For example, your spell book doesn't take up fullscreen when you open it in this version of the game. That right there is already one major deviation from actual original EQ that alters the game from what it originally was.

This isn't live. Nobody here wants live.

My ideas have nothing to do with live and are all ABOUT the classic Everquest experience. Once again, you all need to read about my experience with classic Everquest and how much I care about it and how deeply I understand it - http://www.fippydarkpaw.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11640#p11640

[Kika Maslyaka]

I have read your post at fippy forums, and agree with most of it.
The immersion is indeed lost. People here on p99 want to believe they replaying the "classic" as it was, but they really not - everything here is done "by the book" : go there, kill a, go there, kill b, go there, kill c, etc etc etc. they know exactly where spawns what, and drops what, and how often, and everything looks more and more like some sort of math-calc contest, rather than a gameplay.

Absolutely nothing in the world can bring the original eq back.
But you can make a new game, that will have the spirit of eq, but at teh same time will be new and unexplored.
God bless Emu ;)

[Humwawa]

As a necromancer, I believe I should have the ability to not only dominate the minds of lesser undead to do my bidding indefinitely, but also to eviscerate them and reform them into greater undead beings by mixing and matching the body parts of my hordes of charmed minions.

That's the flavor of necros, and it tastes like gravedirt, clotted blood, and pure awesome.

[Shadey]

Nope, the timeline of EQ is very well defined. The only specifics of this server is that the developpers decided they would stop at Velious, no Luclin, PoP or whatever came after. What will happen once Velious has been released and explored is anyone's guess but the dev will probably not consider or think about this for the time being as they have to get Velious out first which will probably take them a year or two.

Remember they are real persons with real lifes, families, a job etc, not professional dev for whom developping EQ is a job that earns them a living. The time they can dedicate to the server is invested into making sure it works as intended a developping what is their vision of the server. They probably won't have any time to think about what could keep them busy in a few years time.

Well I beg to differ with you sir. You are WRONG! What I consider as classic is different then you. And if you don't like it who cares. :D And if what I consider as classic does not come here that is ok with me. But it doesn't change what I think and feel and no jerk will persuade me into thinking it their way. And it will not stop me for giving my opinion or sticking up for those that are flamed and trampled over when they give theirs.

As far as the devs are concerned I think they do a wonderful job and am thankful for what they do. Its people like you who cant can't stand others having a different view then them that I have the problem with.

[Shadey]

I have read your post at fippy forums, and agree with most of it.
The immersion is indeed lost. People here on p99 want to believe they replaying the "classic" as it was, but they really not - everything here is done "by the book" : go there, kill a, go there, kill b, go there, kill c, etc etc etc. they know exactly where spawns what, and drops what, and how often, and everything looks more and more like some sort of math-calc contest, rather than a gameplay.

Absolutely nothing in the world can bring the original eq back.
But you can make a new game, that will have the spirit of eq, but at teh same time will be new and unexplored.
God bless Emu ;)

Wow got to say nice post Kika. And very true. But it is still fun to be here. It may not be like it was before (because we know so much more about all of the game) but there are memories brought back by playing here .

Like Zura said before I remember scrounging up the materials to make my own first set of leather on my very first char. And when finished it was great! LOL And then when we got banded wow that was an upgrade and we were UBER. :D

[Nagash]

Well I beg to differ with you sir. You are WRONG! What I consider as classic is different then you. And if you don't like it who cares. :D And if what I consider as classic does not come here that is ok with me. But it doesn't change what I think and feel and no jerk will persuade me into thinking it their way.

At which point in my post did I try to define "Classic"? I just said the timeline of EQ is very well defined, which it is, this is just a fact. Now if you want to call "a jerk" someone who is merely stating a fact without even paying attention to what they say, be my guess but expect to loose some credibility in the process.

And it will not stop me for giving my opinion or sticking up for those that are flamed and trampled over when they give theirs.

Well, people are allowed to say whatever they want but this guys has barely ever posted on the forum before and starts by posting something that is pretty much the anti-thesis of the concept of the server. He has to expect being flamed over and over. I pull my hat off to his thick skin though.

As far as the devs are concerned I think they do a wonderful job and am thankful for what they do.

Guess this is the only point where everyone agrees :)

Its people like you who cant can't stand others having a different view then them that I have the problem with.

You will stop having problems with people when you start listening to them (cf. my first point). I did read what Zuranthium say (even the wall of text he linked) and strongly disagree.
The only point I agree with him is that we can not re-live the immersion we once lived but I fail to see what bringing some heavy change such as making charm a permanent effect has to do with it. Even if it is just charm animal, this is a very heavy change that is game changing. Zuranthium point is that it won't matter at high level (disagree again but hey, let's assume that's right); what about the population who is in no rush to level and stays in their 20-40 for a very ling time? For them, this change alters their experience deeply.
Up to now, with the exception I've just mentionned about the immersion, everything I read from Zuranthium appears to me as an idea he has had and quickly came to post without giving it a second thought to see if it was valid or understand the impact it would have. Coming from someone who barely ever posted before, people will consider him like a troll and treat him as such.

[Shadey]

At which point in my post did I try to define "Classic"? I just said the timeline of EQ is very well defined, which it is, this is just a fact. Now if you want to call "a jerk" someone who is merely stating a fact, without even paying attention to what they say, be my guess but expect to loose some credibility in the process.



Well, people are allowed to say whatever they want but this guys has barely ever posted on the forum before and starts by posting something that is pretty much the anti-thesis of what the server as been made for. He has to expect being flamed over and over. I pull my hat off to his thick skin though.



Guess this is the only point where everyone agrees :)



You will stop having problems with people when you start listening to them (cf. my first point). I did read what Zuranthium say (even the wall of text he linked) and strongly disagree.
The only point I agree with him is that we can not re-live the immersion we once lived but I fail to see what bringing some heavy change such as making charm a permanent effect has to do with it. Even if it is just charm animal, this is a very heavy change that is game changing. Zuranthium point is that it won't matter at high level (disagree again but hey, let's assume that's right); what about the population who is in no rush to level and stays in their 20-40 for a very ling time? For them, this change alters their experience deeply.
Up to now, with the exception I've just mentionned about the immersion, everything I read from Zuranthium appears to me as an idea he has had and quickly came to post without giving it a second thought to see if it was valid or understand the impact it would have. Coming from someone who barely ever posted before, people will consider him like a troll and treat him as such.

Well I guess if you had read my posts entirely you'd have known exactly what I meant when I said "each person has their own vision of what a classic timeline is". Meaning some think its orig eq only. Some orig-kunark or orig-kunark-velious. And myself its orig through Luclin.

So what I was saying is each persons "perspective" is different and relevant to them. And you seamed to be objecting to that and it had to be just your way.

If my response to your response is unfounded then I apologize. But anyone has the right to express their opinions on here. And I'll stand by that for anyone weather I agree with them or not.

[Nagash]

Well I guess if you had read my posts entirely you'd have known exactly what I meant when I said "everyone has their own thoughts on what is classic". Meaning some think its orig eq only. Some orig-kunark or orig-kunark-velious. And myself its orig through Luclin.

So what I was saying is each persons "perspective" is different and relevant to them. And you seamed to be objecting to that and it had to be just your way.

If my response to your response is unfounded then I apologize. But anyone has the right to express their opinions on here. And I'll stand by that for anyone weather I agree with them or not.

No need to apologize Shadey, but when a topic becomes "hot" (and this one looks to me as it is) one's got to pay double attention as people switch to defensive mode, and I'm no different to anyone else :)

I 99.99% agree with you about the perspective although I'd tweak that a little bit (hence the 0.01% missing due to semantic): I think Classic is Classic, 'nuff said, no Kunark, Velious or anything. However, and this is the essence of what you say which I agree with, EQ started to go haywire at some point and started to loose its feel. Somewhere along the line it lost its fun and became more of a chore. This point will vary from people to people, for me it came in 4 phases:
- Luclin started it (beastlords, walking on the moon, endless hours of farming to have access to some place (VT key anyone?)),
- PoP trivialised travels and the gods suddenly opened the dour of their home to anyone and their mother (WTF?),
- LDoN brought us instances (bye bye meeting people in a dunjeon),
- OoW made soloing impossible for anyone who wasn't super uber and made my class obsolete (I was playing a shaman, by then almost everyone had max stats "naturally" (no buff needed), every mobs mitigated slow like mad (slow almost useless) and the mobs didn't have that much HP (making DoTs completely useless) but where hitting like trucks (increasing the requirement for healing therefore cleric or no life druid/shaman with a shitload of AA... which wasn't me).

For the second part of your post, I do agree, anyone is entitled to say whatever they want. But if one starts to express something which goes against what most people in the surrounding think (people of this forum in this case), they have to be ready to go down in flame. This is exactly what is happening to Zuranthium.

[Zuranthium]

The only point I agree with him is that we can not re-live the immersion we once lived but I fail to see what bringing some heavy change such as making charm a permanent effect has to do with it. Even if it is just charm animal, this is a very heavy change that is game changing. Zuranthium point is that it won't matter at high level (disagree again but hey, let's assume that's right); what about the population who is in no rush to level and stays in their 20-40 for a very ling time? For them, this change alters their experience deeply.

The Charm Animal change would hardly be a "heavy change" as you put it, nor would it "alter the experience deeply" for people who aren't trying to rush. It would be making a poorly implemented skill line more viable, but still irrelevant to high end content, and more true to the RPG flavor intended for Druids and Rangers. I'm not sure how you can disagree with my assertion of the skill being irrelevant to high end content; there are factually NO animals to charm in any of the high-end grouping zones. Please, by all means, point out where I am wrong about this if you believe so.

Nobody would stop playing on this server if it was implemented, rather only some players would be happier as a result of having an ability that is true to the RPG feel of their class and cements them as the masters of the outdoors. There would be considerable time investment in adventuring through a zone to find the animal companion you want, forming a bond with it, and then making sure it doesn't die. This isn't just a regular caster pet that can be summoned on a whim - the Druid/Ranger has to specifically seek it out and repeat the process if the pet is killed.

Up to now, with the exception I've just mentionned about the immersion, everything I read from Zuranthium appears to me as an idea he has had and quickly came to post without giving it a second thought to see if it was valid or understand the impact it would have. Coming from someone who barely ever posted before, people will consider him like a troll and treat him as such.

I do not post ideas on a whim, everything has been very thoroughly considered and comes from an extremely knowledgeable classic Everquest background. Obviously you, and others, would like to think I'm trolling because I only recently started posting here, but that's your own false perception. I play p1999 now and I care about the classic EQ experience and I would love to see a great game that continues the spirit of classic EQ.

[Nagash]

The Charm Animal change would hardly be a "heavy change" as you put it, nor would it "alter the experience deeply" for people who aren't trying to rush. It would be making a poorly implemented skill line more viable, but still irrelevant to high end content, and more true to the RPG flavor intended for Druids and Rangers. I'm not sure how you can disagree with my assertion of the skill being irrelevant to high end content; there are factually NO animals to charm in any of the high-end grouping zones. Please, by all means, point out where I am wrong about this if you believe so.

Oh boy... Ever occured to you that a charmed pet (monster or animal) is much more powerfull than a summoned pet of the same level? This comes with its drawbacks my good lad, the drawbacks being that it is mana intensive (got to keep recharming) and that you can be killed in the process. If these safeguards weren't here, what would be the point of playing a magician which seems to be a class that you love so dearly (I will not insult you by reminding you that the pet is the main feature of the magician, seeing that up have leveled 3 magicians up to level 50 (from the link you provided), I assume this is a well established fact for you)?
Now, where can we find animals at high level? Kedge Keep, Burning Wood, Timorous Deep to name a few. Velious (which is planned to be implemented on the server) will add its share.

Nobody would stop playing on this server if it was implemented, rather only some players would be happier as a result of having an ability that is true to the RPG feel of their class and cements them as the masters of the outdoors. There would be considerable time investment in adventuring through a zone to find the animal companion you want, forming a bond with it, and then making sure it doesn't die. This isn't just a regular caster pet that can be summoned on a whim - the Druid/Ranger has to specifically seek it out and repeat the process if the pet is killed.

Since when do ranger have charm animal? Oops, they don't. Please get your facts straights and do some research before posting. I say that for you man, you are the one making a foul of himself and yet you keep digging...

Speaking of roleplay, how do you explain that
- a druid or a ranger can attack an animal or a plant?
- a necromancer casting a spell of lich (turning him into an undead) will only remain so for a set duration? Christ, he miraculously comes back to life at the end of the spell, didn't even lose any expreience although he died? Even better than a cleric rez (by the way, how do you explain it RP wise?) I call for a necro nerf!
- a paladin can go and farm some guards in Freeport or Butchblock?
- when I die, I reappear to my bind point. I could understand the concept of a resurrection spell in a fantasy setting but the last time I died, no one rezzed me, I just reappeared with a bit less xp?
Feel my drift? I could go on and on and on. How do you explain these? You don't because this is a video game, made for some people who want to play it for a while and have some fun away from their RL (they could also read a book for example). The devs have made this game to allow them to do so and enjoy a freedom they don't necessarily have in real life whilst ensuring there were some boundaries (no permanent charm for example). Roleplay is a concept, nothing more, nothing less. A concept that while you are playing your toon, you will act as if you were him/her with the constraints given to you by the game. No one enforces it on you, it is your sole choice. No system will make it better or worse, it is just a concept.

I appreciate what you say: you don't like the boundaries that the devs are putting to the server and propose to change them. What you seem not to understand is that everyone is telling you they are happy with these boundaries and their implications.

I do not post ideas on a whim, everything has been very thoroughly considered and comes from an extremely knowledgeable classic Everquest background. Obviously you, and others, would like to think I'm trolling because I only recently started posting here, but that's your own false perception.

Seeing how everyone is against you for the same reasons (I've hardly seen this forum so united dude) and the only persons backing you up do so on the basis that "anyone is free to speak", I beg to differ but hey, be my guest to stay in Wonderland Alice.

I however have to thank you Zuranthium as you emphasize my experience on the server by reminding me how clueless some people were back in the day. Nowadays, you are (un)fortunately one of a kind.

[YendorLootmonkey]

The Charm Animal change would hardly be a "heavy change" as you put it, nor would it "alter the experience deeply" for people who aren't trying to rush. It would be making a poorly implemented skill line more viable, but still irrelevant to high end content, and more true to the RPG flavor intended for Druids and Rangers. I'm not sure how you can disagree with my assertion of the skill being irrelevant to high end content; there are factually NO animals to charm in any of the high-end grouping zones. Please, by all means, point out where I am wrong about this if you believe so.

Well, the first thing I'm going to do is charm a shiverback in Fear permanently and get it hasted/buffed, and pwn pretty much everything. Then, I might move on to join a raid in Emerald Jungle where we've all got tigers and apes and shit permanently charmed and hasted/buffed for additional DPS against Severilous! Not to mention when Velious comes out, gonna permanently charm some velium hounds, get them hasted/buffed, and pwn some dragons. :P

[Nagash]

Well, the first thing I'm going to do is charm a shiverback in Fear permanently and get it hasted/buffed, and pwn pretty much everything. Then, I might move on to join a raid in Emerald Jungle where we've all got tigers and apes and shit permanently charmed and hasted/buffed for additional DPS against Severilous! Not to mention when Velious comes out, gonna permanently charm some velium hounds, get them hasted/buffed, and pwn some dragons. :P

Evil you, how dare you counter the well thought idea of his that he did not post on a whim? Everything he said has been very thoroughly considered and comes from an extremely knowledgeable classic Everquest background.

/drool... again

[Zuranthium]

Oh boy... Kedge Keep, Burning Wood, Timorous Deep to name a few. Velious (which is planned to be implemented on the server) will add its share.

None of those zones you mentioned are "high end content" and Kedge Keep is INDOORS anyway so the spell wouldn't work there; see the flavor here? Western Wastes is the only Velious zone with a bit of high-end content where you could charm an animal, and having a Mastondon pet in the mid-40's is hardly a game-changer when you are fighting a Level 60+ Dragon.

Since when do ranger have charm animal? Oops, they don't. Please get your facts straights and do some research before posting. I say that for you man, you are the one making a foul of himself and yet you keep digging...

I know they don't have charm animal. It would be added to the class as something they deserve. If it hasn't become abundantly clear yet, I am in favor of altering aspects of the game that are in line with the original EQ vision.

I however have to thank you Zuranthium as you emphasize my experience on the server by reminding me how clueless some people were back in the day. Nowadays, you are (un)fortunately one of a kind.

Clueless? You don't even understand the game content. More empty insults, coming from a lack of perspective that causes thoughtless knee-jerk responses.

[Zuranthium]

Well, the first thing I'm going to do is charm a shiverback in Fear permanently and get it hasted/buffed, and pwn pretty much everything. Then, I might move on to join a raid in Emerald Jungle where we've all got tigers and apes and shit permanently charmed and hasted/buffed for additional DPS against Severilous! Not to mention when Velious comes out, gonna permanently charm some velium hounds, get them hasted/buffed, and pwn some dragons. :P

You wouldn't be able to Charm Animal on a Shiverback or a Velium Hound, they would be too high level to charm. The reading comprehension in response to my posts is wholly lacking here. Read what I wrote. I specifically said the permanent animal charms would be of a lower level than how the short-duration charms are currently scripted.

As for Emerald Jungle, the highest level animal there is 40. Yeah, that's SUCH a huge amount of extra DPS against Severilous! :rolleyes:

Druids in fact already get a near-permanent Animal Charm at level 55, it simply caps off at Level 35 animals and my proposed cap would be higher than that. Druids are already able to charm what is essentially a permanent animal pet to use against Severilous in Emerald Jungle.

[Nagash]

If it hasn't become abundantly clear yet, I am in favor of altering aspects of the game that are in line with the original EQ vision.

If it hasn't become abundantly clear yet, YOU... ARE... ALONE... IN... THIS... BOAT...

By the way, since when permanent charm is "in line with the original EQ vision"? It is now obvious you didn't start playing until after dire charm was added to the game.

Please, do us a favour and keep on replying, I can see a lot of flamethrowers are just starting to warm up and I guess the best is yet to come :)

[Zuranthium]

If it hasn't become abundantly clear yet, YOU... ARE... ALONE... IN... THIS... BOAT...

Wrong. People in both this thread and the other thread I've been posting in have said they agree with improving the game.

By the way, since when permanent charm is "in line with the original EQ vision"?

The original EQ vision is based upon D&D, where Druids and Rangers have animal companions. Yet again, a failure to read (or at least comprehend) what I've been writing.

[Nagash]

Wrong. People in both this thread and the other thread I've been posting in have said they agree with improving the game.

Oh boy, have you at least read the whole posts in their entirety? It can only be one of two things:
- you haven't (and are trolling)
- you have decided to conveniently select just part of their replies beging careful to ignore the parts that didn't go in your favour (troll again)
Please go back to school and learn how to read.

I apologize to everyone, I know the common saying "Don't feed the troll" but we've found ourself one who's a sucker for punishment, I can't help it :)

[Danth]

If this hypothetical change wouldn't work on Fear trash (some of which is high 40's), but would work on higher-level mobs than the level 37 or so cap of the existing long-duration charm, effectively you're lobbying for adding no more than about 5 or 10 levels to it. I don't see what such a change would help. It wouldn't allow a Druid to do anything it can't already do in terms of fighting ability.

I'm not berating you, just commenting that such a change, even if carried out (unlikely in itself given the scope of this server), wouldn't really fix any of that class's problems. If you disagree, feel free to explain why. If you agree and regard it simply as a 'flavor' change, well, I won't argue with you there. Even if it wouldn't help much, it wouldn't hurt either.

Note that this is purely hypothetical, as non-classic class change falls outside the scope of Project 1999 and as such I neither expect nor request such fixes, even in cases where they'd be beneficial.

Danth

[YendorLootmonkey]

As for Emerald Jungle, the highest level animal there is 40. Yeah, that's SUCH a huge amount of extra DPS against Severilous! :rolleyes:

Considering they're hitting me at level 54 for 100+, haste it and the DPS is nothing to laugh at. Especially considering Sev has 32K hp and there's a shitload of druids on the server. Ten druids/rangers charming a level 40 mob with a permanent, no-risk charm, even if the level 40 mob only did 50 DPS, that's 500 additional DPS... nothing to casually dismiss.

The reading comprehension in response to my posts is wholly lacking here. Read what I wrote.

I am reading what you wrote:

I'm not sure how you can disagree with my assertion of the skill being irrelevant to high end content; there are factually NO animals to charm in any of the high-end grouping zones. Please, by all means, point out where I am wrong about this if you believe so.

First you're telling us the stuff you could charm would be too low level, then you're challenging us to find any animal mobs to charm in high-end content where this would be relevant, so I did so.

You want to *fix* EQ and make it what it should have been? Fine. Why don't you start by removing class-based XP penalties so every class is on the same equal footing (which Sony/Verant later did in Velious after they discovered the huge gap between hybrid and melee classes they had originally designed to warrant such a penalty never manifested itself). And then, IN EVERY CASE, make it more advantageous from an XP perspective to fill up a group with players than it is to XP solo, thus motivating people to... you know... group and work together. Solo classes could *still* solo, but it would be better for them if they added people to the group (i.e. the grouping bonus up to 20% that Sony/Verant later added, in the same patch that removed the class-based penalties, IIRC).

A lot of class balance disparity in the game is because the solo classes (mage, druid, enchanter, necro) can solo XP faster than an entire group can.

[Zuranthium]

Please go back to school and learn how to read.

Yes, that IS what you should do. I'm sorry that you are have a frightened isolationist viewpoint but trying to hatemonger isn't doing anything for your case. Plenty of people are clearly interested by what I have to say, as seen by the thread tags, messages I've received in-game, and posts here on the forum. Such as:

the thread started by Zuranthium is not much different than the PoP thread started by Guineapig - it just Zuranthium more concern with classes than zones and mobs.

While I don't care what the devs plan to do with the server past the Velious timeline, I too believe that "spirit of eq" is more important that technical details of "following the timeline"

I too have been a devoted eq player from 99 to 04, but there were things I wanted to change since the day 1, I knew some things could be done better.

Thanks for sharing

Zuranthium is clearly an old school EQ player with some good ideas

Its a discussion, get over it. I don't know why people flame so much... its so pointless and just distracts from a genuinely interesting conversation.

-----

You are the person that is trolling here, Nagash. Not me. Learn to be less ignorant.

[Nagash]

Nowhere in all these answers did anyone agree with you, at best you had people willing to listen to you which in itself is quite a feat seeing how pointless what you had to say is.

[Zuranthium]

Considering they're hitting me at level 54 for 100+, haste it and the DPS is nothing to laugh at. Ten druids/rangers charming a level 40 mob with a permanent, no-risk charm, even if the level 40 mob only did 50 DPS, that's 500 additional DPS... nothing to casually dismiss.

Yeah, they will hit you - a PLAYER - for that amount, but they will come nowhere close to that against a mob like Sev. Moreover, don't you realize that bosses AoE Fear (which pets can not resist, certainly not these animal pets anyway) AND there is specifically a limit to how many pets are allowed to attack bosses?

First you're telling us the stuff you could charm would be too low level, then you're challenging us to find any animal mobs to charm in high-end content where this would be relevant, so I did so.

One mob in Emerald Jungle does make a "high-end grouping zone", which was the exact statement I used and, as I just described above and in other recent posts, my original statement that Charm Animal would be irrelevant in the hardest areas of the game remains completely true.

You want to *fix* EQ and make it what it should have been? Fine. Why don't you start by removing class-based XP penalties so every class is on the same equal footing (which Sony/Verant later did in Velious after they discovered the huge gap between hybrid and melee classes they had originally designed to warrant such a penalty never manifested itself). And then, IN EVERY CASE, make it more advantageous from an XP perspective to fill up a group with players than it is to XP solo, thus motivating people to... you know... group and work together.

I completely agree with all of these things. Where did I ever say that I didn't? Such a thing is exactly what I want in the game. Thank you for mentioning this because it is definitely very important.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Nowhere in all these answers did anyone agree with you, at best you had people willing to listen to you which in itself is quite a feat seeing how pointless what you had to say is.

well to be fair, I share a vision that eq could use number of improvements ;)
I too disprove, that cleric is the only mandatory healer for any serious content.
I am NOT saying that all classes need to be blend together, and become universal substitutes, but out of 14 freaken classes, we have 3 who are ALWAYS in demand, while everyone else is 2nd grade a sidekick... some even 3rd grade...
A necro, and mage who only have 10% xp penalty can solo like no tomorrow, while ranger who nearly completely worthless in groups, comes with 40% penalty - hows any of that is a good game design?
yeah, Xp penalties were removed - but freaken 2 years LATER, when Brad finally pulled his head out of his ass.
And these things, and many other, were obvious to players from the start - he just never wanted to admit it that he sucked at class balancing.
How many times during first 2 years I have heard from him "X will NEVER happen cause it contradicts the Vision" and then 6 month later he comes out with feature X like its something he always wanted but someone was stopping him, but now its here and we all should be thanking him for this marvelous innovation.

/shrug

I simply don't care anymore. As much as I treasure my EQ memories of the past, I know now how much BS I was fed over the years by Brad, his Vision, and his bosses at SOE.

Many people believe that EQ was great, but then at some point it got broke (and majority tend to blame it on specific expansion like SoL or PoP or GoD), while in reality it was broken from day 1. You just didn't noticed it in the beginning when EQ was new, and everything was so cool. But the shit piled up over the years, till the point when it went over the top and everyone drawn in it.

EQ was a magnificent fantasy world, but a very poor game engine.

Thankfully, those who are willing to put thought and effort into it, now have the proper tools to fix it.
God bless Emu! ;)

[ojamajoe]

Lots of people seem to have a vision of how to improve Everquest, and the tools are at hand to make it happen! Problem seems to be that people have very different ideas of what should be changed, and even of what constitutes an improvement.

So, here we are on the highest (by far) population EMU server, playing the most rabidly un-"improved" version. And it sure isn't from lack of trying by people releasing custom servers...

[Kika Maslyaka]

Lots of people seem to have a vision of how to improve Everquest, and the tools are at hand to make it happen! Problem seems to be that people have very different ideas of what should be changed, and even of what constitutes an improvement.

So, here we are on the highest (by far) population EMU server, playing the most rabidly un-"improved" version. And it sure isn't from lack of trying by people releasing custom servers...

problem with custom servers that their developers hardly trying to achieve such a significant goal as "improving eq" - they want to give everyone some uber loot at level 1, add cool pets, throw in few custom quests and raids, maybe redo some of the zones, and never even touch fundamental class balance issue.

The only custom server who ever put an effort into building the game from the scratch was Shards of Delay. I can't say I like their vision any better than original eq - even they are barely touched original spells (they only added a few things here and there), but at least they genuinely tried. C+ for the effort ;)

I still believe that future of truly original and spirited MMO is in the hands of private developers, rather than corporate producers, be that soe, blizzard, or anyone else.

[ojamajoe]

While you and I might not regard their efforts as an attempt to "improve" eq, I bet that a lot of the custom server ops do. This is the tricky nature of dealing in subjectives! Part of the problem is the massive amount of work involved... just like creating p99. A custom server dealing with the issues discussed in this thread would be tons more work than trying to recreate old eq; and that was so much work and torture that this is the first successful effort in the many years of EQEMU to do so, despite the clamoring from early on for just such a server.

I regard SOD as more of an attempt to "mix up" eq, rather than improve it. For people that played Classic, SOD (when it was on) probably offered a great deal of the actual experience of Classic by virtue of depriving the player of a great deal of meta-knowledge.

I still believe that future of truly original and spirited MMO is in the hands of private developers, rather than corporate producers, be that soe, blizzard, or anyone else. This I agree wholeheartedly with. It will take a private dev to not lowest-common-denominator a game, and instead focus on making it kick ass!

[Kika Maslyaka]

Yes, its a lot of work.. I have been working on a concept of such a server since 2007 (ever since I found emu), and I have recently started putting my concepts into actual data :D I am hoping to have something to show for in the next 6-9 months ;)

[DaddyBear]

Do you Like BEAR ?

[Fryhole]

You want to *fix* EQ and make it what it should have been? Fine. Why don't you start by removing class-based XP penalties so every class is on the same equal footing (which Sony/Verant later did in Velious after they discovered the huge gap between hybrid and melee classes they had originally designed to warrant such a penalty never manifested itself). And then, IN EVERY CASE, make it more advantageous from an XP perspective to fill up a group with players than it is to XP solo, thus motivating people to... you know... group and work together. Solo classes could *still* solo, but it would be better for them if they added people to the group (i.e. the grouping bonus up to 20% that Sony/Verant later added, in the same patch that removed the class-based penalties, IIRC).

A lot of class balance disparity in the game is because the solo classes (mage, druid, enchanter, necro) can solo XP faster than an entire group can.

100% agree. While the spirit of the server is to maintain classic, I don't see why past mistakes that were recognized and fixed should wait until Velious. Hybrids don't need an XP penalty - grouping should reward more EXP. Adding things outside the scope of what the game did up to and throughout Velious is going to be a hard sell to people who are here knowing that's the last expansion.

[Klyre]

This whole thread has been rather amusing to me. The arguments, statements and ideas stated throughout are just conversation.

I have seen people talk about the spirit of the game. Fallacy from the get go. How no one is listening. Don't see this either, just disagreements about the topic. How the server is or is not recreating the exact same experience. What a joke! You won't experience P99 exactly as the original but you can revisit the world of EQ as it was presented then. Yes people know where everything is, yes there is more people at the top, but the world that you visit is almost the same. Your encounters with other players is new, and you have the opportunity to play a Char you may not have had the chance to play before in its original setting.

What many have failed to see is that P99 has been about the Mechanics. From the original release up until Velious the goal has been to recreate the Mechanics (How things work for those needing a simpler term). Will it be exact. No and I haven't seen a promise that it would be as with any Emu recreation of exactness is near impossible. But the Devs are striving to keep the Mechanics as close to the Original Time line as possible. If you can provide the Devs with proof of when a Mechanic was introduced or deviates from this time line they have been extremely patient and willing to listen.

There have been other threads that have talked about speeding up some of the time line mechanics such as shared banks and while I personally wouldn't mind seeing this I don't see it happening.

So, no matter how good your idea is for changing anything, I can't see any of it happening until this time line is complete. What happens then might then be some opportunity for the Devs to consider the Spirit of the game.

[mala]

You are not playing EQ as it was when it started up, not even close, simply by using the exact same in-game numbers on everything.

The original EQ experience is not in the exact coding of how the game was, but the driving IDEA behind the game and the way people played it. The point of classic Everquest was exactly as the title says - to quest endlessly. The focus of the game should be making players explore, making players fear for their lives anywhere they go that isn't specifically a safe zone, and making players discover and invent new things.


I think alot of what your trying to say here is clouded by personal bias comming from the fact that you played the game. The whole goal here is to not to recreate the exact experience you got out of everquest in 1999 (which is impossible, i agree), but to create an experience that follows the original mechanics of the game as closely as the dev's can get it. If you had never played everquest before and someone gave you p99, your experience wouldnt be that different from someone playing on live in 1999. So for the dev's to implement changes that dont follow the original timeline, or mechanics, but very well may "balance the game" (in your eyes), this steers away from the actual goal (remember here, original mechanics, not the overall idea or "spirit" of everquest) to keep things exactly as they were, through the good and the bad.

The small changes you speak of that in themselves make the game "completely un classic" (spell book not being up for med, spell book not taking up the whole screen, maps in starter cities) are at the most UI changes that dont really change the feel of the game, or the mechanics for that matter.

For the lack of a better analogy your entire argument is like going to a civil war re-enactment and saying "we should give the south AK-47's to help balance it, i think thats what Lee's vision was"