Treants in SK - one or two camps?

[pivo]

Basically the title...

Mostly I see players share the Treants, but every so often someone is claiming it is one camp. So, what it is?

(asking for a friend) ;)

[Sabin76]

Unless I'm very mistaken, SK is an outdoor zone, which means you get to claim one (1) spawn... not camp... spawn.

[pivo]

Unless I'm very mistaken, SK is an outdoor zone, which means you get to claim one (1) spawn... not camp... spawn.

Thank you! Yes, that was my understanding. Anyone thinks different?

[Jibartik]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Play_nice_policy

Yeah i think that maybe this wording here says that they can be a single camp, but it doesnt say anything about the outdoor rule or only being able to camp a single spawn, so that rule may be a bit of a myth?

No distinction on indoor or outdoor rules at all on that wiki page. So /shrug

"In general, if the placeholder or placeholders for a spawn are being killed, that 'camp' can be considered held by the player doing the killing so long as they are keeping the placeholders (or the room if there are no placeholders) cleared, within the same zone, do not die or log off."

[pivo]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Play_nice_policy

Yeah i think that maybe this wording here says that they can be a single camp, but it doesnt say anything about the outdoor rule or only being able to camp a single spawn, so that rule may be a bit of a myth?

No distinction on indoor or outdoor rules at all on that wiki page. So /shrug


Ahh, thank you! So, it is not clear cut then.

[Keebz]

always considered them one camp on blue /shrug

[unleashedd]

sisters in lfay are outdoor too but considered a camp. if someone doesnt wanna share, guess one of you will have to petition

[Khikik]

2.1 Zone types in relation to camps.

There are two main zone types.

Open Outdoor Zones and Dungeon Type Zones that have their own sets of guidelines.

Open Outdoor Zones can be anything from Western Wastes, Karanas or West Commons. There are no staff recognized camps for this zone type outside of single spawn points. Examples of single spawn types might be Ocean of Tears Ancient Cyclops, Iceclad Ocean Stormfeather, or Qeynos Hills Hadden. Though, any single spawn point can be claimed, that is the only spawn you can hunt (if being contested). If you are to claim this point you must get aggro/First to Encounter (FTE) within a reasonable amount of time.

There are cases where two or more parties wish to hunt in the same area. In these cases, the parties are required to compromise. Do not attack a mob after another player, this is kill stealing.

Dungeon Type Zones are characterized as a zone which has very few open areas. These types of zones may include Sebilis, City of Mist, Unrest or High Keep (See section 2 above). For the most part you can claim what's Line of Sight (LOS)/Aggro Range. A couple exemptions to the LOS/Aggro range guideline may be Sebilis Spore King and Karnor Captain where camping within LOS/Aggro is just not practical.

For these types of zones camps are usually dictated by the geometry. You may absolutely hunt multiple camps if no one else is contesting them. Once another party shows up asking for one of your camps it is your decision which camp you wish to claim, then they can then have their choice.

Again, If an equitable compromise cannot be reached between the players prior to Project 1999 Customer Service Staff involvement, the P99CSR will mandate a compromise. Any such compromise is final and not open to debate. Refusing to abide by these terms will be considered disruption and may result in disciplinary action.

Note: A "party" in this case is defined as a party of one or more characters that are united in a common belief or goal and are capable of completing that goal.


There is a difference between player recognized camps and Staff recognized camp's. Staff knows many of the player defined camps that don't fit fully within our rules are readily honored by most players. 9/10 Its best to discuss with other players and come to compromise when hunting in the same area.

Tldr; two camps, 1 for each static spawn point (open outdoor zone)

[charmcitysking]

Gotta use your best judgement. Although everything outdoor (besides the outdoor dungeons like CT, Unrest, etc.) is a single spawn rule, there are some 'unwritten rule' camps where u just leave the person who's camping them alone. Examples of these would be Toll Booth in West Commonlands, Sisters Hut in OOT, Bandit sisters in Lfay (as previously mentioned).

But other things (like say the Paw Gnoll spires in SK) are definitely one spawn camp rule. Unless you have the mid spire. I don't know. There's definitely some mathematical nerdquation that considers number of spawns and their proximity to each other to determine what's a camp and what's not.

Call an elf lawyer.

[Albanwr]

it is 2 separate spawns. if 2 people want to camp one spawn each, that is what it is.

[Tunabros]

you can camp 2 until someone claims the other 1

[Keebz]

It is more valuable to let it be a single camp, imho. Yes, it is within server rules to claim one of the spawns, but it is kind of a waste to split up the spawns. It effectively turns a great camp into a questionable one.

[strongNpretty]

It's best to notify us (forum questers) of who is taking both camps, and we'll go ahead and hold trial.

[NPC]

2 Treants in SK = one camp
4 Spectres around the spire in Oasis = one camp

Everyone knows this, just azzhats that cant wait their turn rocking the boat.

[Ninusen]

What NPC said. I've spent many levels there on several characters, and it's always been considered one camp. Never even heard of anyone trying to break it up.

[pivo]

There is a difference between player recognized camps and Staff recognized camp's. Staff knows many of the player defined camps that don't fit fully within our rules are readily honored by most players. 9/10 Its best to discuss with other players and come to compromise when hunting in the same area.

Tldr; two camps, 1 for each static spawn point (open outdoor zone)

I though I responded, but I see I didn't. Coming from server guide, this should seal it. Interesting how split opinion is on this one. Most I have seen do share, when second player arrives. I was curious if there was set rule for this one.

And thanks for the answer. Same to all other who answered! :)

[pivo]

It's best to notify us (forum questers) of who is taking both camps, and we'll go ahead and hold trial.

LOL! :D

[Vertiggo]

Both treants are definitely 1 camp. It's always been that way

[Videri]

It is more valuable to let it be a single camp, imho. Yes, it is within server rules to claim one of the spawns, but it is kind of a waste to split up the spawns. It effectively turns a great camp into a questionable one.

Exactly.

While one can technically claim the overarching outdoor rule of one spawn point per player (as a GM just confirmed HELLO), any camp gets worse and worse the more it's split up. Is it worth camping a single treant spawn? I don't know, I never kill trees. Is it worth camping a single spectre in Oasis? It certainly seems to be worth it in the Feerrott. We'd all rather spend 1 hour camping 4 spectres than 2 hours camping 2 spectres. This, combined with respect for other players' time, is why most players will not invoke the outdoor 1-per-player rule. Most people will instead wait in line and let someone else camp both trees or all 4 specs or whatever, then take their turn and hope to be allowed to do the same by the courtesy of other players.

This is a cool environment for us to create, where it's about courtesy and respect. However, we must recognize not all players will abide by these customs since the actual rule is one spawn point per player outdoors. So, don't get upset. Just try to be courteous.

[Baler]

The two tree ents in north east South Karana are a single camp because you can sit in range of both spawns and there are no corners or geometry/building separating them.
So long as a player can keep both spawns down within a reasonable amount of time after the pop. Meaning they can't let one sit up while they med or go grab a drink.

[DMN]

The two tree ents in north east South Karana are a single camp because you can sit in range of both spawns and there are no corners or geometry/building separating them.


You and some players you know may believe and agree to this, bit it's not a single camp according to the rules.

[Baler]

You and some players you know may believe and agree to this, bit it's not a single camp according to the rules.

Those are more like guidelines, the staff make the rules.

Take it from me, someone who argues that hill giants in rathe mountains are a single camp each.
And if you rule lawyer you can see that due to the tree ents being close together, killing them within seconds of their spawning means you're killing them. Because players can not kill steal. Once one is left up too long anyone can engage it. Note they're not FTE.

So I stand by calling it a single camp, in spirit. since traditionally it's one player keeping both spawns down. However they can't petition another player for engaging a tree ent that's left up for more than a few seconds.

[Videri]

Those are more like guidelines, the staff make the rules.

Take it from me, someone who argues that hill giants in rathe mountains are a single camp each.
And if you rule lawyer you can see that due to the tree ents being close together, killing them within seconds of their spawning means you're killing them. Because players can not kill steal. Once one is left up too long anyone can engage it. Note they're not FTE.

So I stand by calling it a single camp, in spirit. since traditionally it's one player keeping both spawns down. However they can't petition another player for engaging a tree ent that's left up for more than a few seconds.

baler no

There is a difference between player recognized camps and Staff recognized camp's. Staff knows many of the player defined camps that don't fit fully within our rules are readily honored by most players. 9/10 Its best to discuss with other players and come to compromise when hunting in the same area.

Tldr; two camps, 1 for each static spawn point (open outdoor zone)

[Baler]

baler no
Did you know Elves have rights?
The Rules & PnP says you do!
And so do I!
https://i.imgur.com/VxIWXSz.gif

My inbox is open for all camp dispute cases.
Don't let Ogres try to force you out of your camp.
From Treants to Dragons Baler's Rule Lawyering has you covered.

[Sabin76]

The two tree ents in north east South Karana are a single camp because you can sit in range of both spawns and there are no corners or geometry/building separating them.

Except the same can be said of the NW, Tower (green patch), Mid spawns for HGs in Rathe. Or Tower and Slant. Or Hobo and couple conifers. I would certainly find a camp that consists of 2 HGs more valuable than just one...

Clearly we just have to define it as one of the many player exceptions to the GM standard rule (1 spawn = 1 camp) without trying to justify it further.

I actually think there would be less friction by being quite upfront about the fact that it's technically two camps, but the vast majority of players recognize it as a single camp if someone asks rather than telling them it's one camp, them going to the forums to find that, in fact, GMs only enforce a 1 spawn = 1 camp rule and then going back and trying
to rules lawyer it, getting everyone involved more pissed about the situation.

[Fammaden]

Is it worth camping a single spectre in Oasis? It certainly seems to be worth it in the Feerrott. We'd all rather spend 1 hour camping 4 spectres than 2 hours camping 2 spectres. This, combined with respect for other players' time, is why most players will not invoke the outdoor 1-per-player rule. Most people will instead wait in line and let someone else camp both trees or all 4 specs or whatever, then take their turn and hope to be allowed to do the same by the courtesy of other players.

Specs in Feer are 6:40 spawns the ones in Oasis are on the 16:30 zone timer so no one in their right mind wants to camp one at a time. If the oasis dudes spawned every six minutes I promise you people would force claims on a single.

People cite specs on this topic all the time making the comparison without qualifying. Its a good example of how and why player agreed camps can start to diverge from "one spawn one player" outdoor rules, but they are apples and oranges other than both being the same mob.

Trees are similar, even though you CAN no one really wants to camp just one of the two so people defer in hopes to have the whole camp like you said.

[pivo]

I actually think there would be less friction by being quite upfront about the fact that it's technically two camps, but the vast majority of players recognize it as a single camp if someone asks rather than telling them it's one camp

First, I would like to thank everyone for their answers. Second, I'm glad I've asked :D

I understand situation now, and your answers made me better person in game. (well at least for this camp lol) While I understand it is one camp, I also understand the other argument and play nice policy.

Twice now, I came there to camp, saw a player that was easily handling both Treants, both times players unselfishly offered one Treant to me. In the past, I would have taken second Treant. But now, thanks to this thread, I decided to let player enjoy both of them. (and it is easy, if you are playing with more than one character) ;)

When I will be strong enough for both of them, if new player will ask for one, I will also share. But I will appreciate, if I will be able to level off both off them.