Angry Goblin Roll revision?

[LazyHydras]

Hi.

Now that Kelz, Chunkerz, and the other no-lifers aren't involved with these rolls anymore, can we up the time? Even just a little bit?

I'd prefer 30 seconds like scout roll, but, hell, i'll even take an increase from 10 to 15 seconds.


Discuss.

[LazyHydras]

Seriously. Waiting 7 hours and 12 minutes is bad enough without having to hover over your keyboard the whole time.

[Ripqozko]

no thanks, its fine. Move to resolved.

[enjchanter]

no thanks, its fine. Move to resolved.

[Not_Mikeo]

I'm sorry its nearly 2021 and you're still terrible OP. Everyone else seems to be able to manage. Perhaps lay off the drugs.

[LazyHydras]

I'm sorry its nearly 2021 and you're still terrible OP. Everyone else seems to be able to manage. Perhaps lay off the drugs.

Rants and flames is over that way ------>

[Not_Mikeo]

https://i.imgur.com/eNqkhM2.png

[LazyHydras]

https://i.imgur.com/eNqkhM2.png

Very funny. Have a nice day. :)

[kaizersoze]

Farm urns with me and i'll let you use my ring as long as i get it back ;)

[voydent]

on 1st september morning, i rolled the winning roll within the 10 seconds limit. someone else rolled a higher number but rolled late (at the 12th second, basically disqualifying him). however he refused to concede and ended up looting the head anyway. so i had no choice but to petition him.

it has been 1 week but i havent heard back from any GM.

really want to know if the GMs will enforce this player-agreed camp rule, or is this going to be ignored.

[Damarous]

Did you post in the petition forum?

If so, it may be worth popping into the p99 discord and asking the staff that are active in there.

[Toomuch]

on 1st september morning, i rolled the winning roll within the 10 seconds limit. someone else rolled a higher number but rolled late (at the 12th second, basically disqualifying him). however he refused to concede and ended up looting the head anyway. so i had no choice but to petition him.

it has been 1 week but i havent heard back from any GM.

really want to know if the GMs will enforce this player-agreed camp rule, or is this going to be ignored.

GM's will in fact enforce this. A couple months ago, I won a ring8 roll a few seconds late (because I killed the mobs that had agrod me instead of bringing them to the roll spot) on my warrior, Mahonri, because as I ran up to the camp, nobody was rolling. I waited for about 15 seconds for the rolls to start, then saw ooc "soanso with 901?" or similar, so I rolled, beat it, and got told I was a couple seconds late, and it didn't count. I didn't like it, and explained I felt I did the right thing by not training, and had indeed arrived to the camp in time, but didn't see any rolls happening so I figured it hadn't happened yet. So, the Riot guy that had the next highest roll, within the 30 second timer, petitioned.

About 60 seconds later, Menden showed up to personally handle this petition from the Riot member, and said I had lost because of the strict 30 second timer. I asked if I should have brought the mobs and rolled with them there, possibly training people, and he said if I trained I could have been DQ'd from the roll and gotten in trouble for that as well.

So basically yeah, you won, but... I don't like it. I think it should be 30 seconds for each roll. It's really weird having one precedent for one roll, and a different precedent for another.

Like yesterday at the badain/ring10 clickfest, my wife was freaking out in the next room because she's morbidly afraid of moths, and one had gotten in our house and touched her, and she literally panicked, ran around like a crazy person, tripped and fell, etc. She cried out for me to help her kill it, so I very literally muttered out loud "if this makes me miss this..." killed the moth in like 10 or 15 seconds tops, and as I look back to my screen, the roll had happened.

Granted, clickfest is a different (stupid) ballgame that Riot wants to play, but my point is, we gotta be able to step away for 30 seconds. It's unhealthy/crazy to not be able to break away for that amount of time.

[Uuruk]

on 1st september morning, i rolled the winning roll within the 10 seconds limit. someone else rolled a higher number but rolled late (at the 12th second, basically disqualifying him). however he refused to concede and ended up looting the head anyway. so i had no choice but to petition him.

it has been 1 week but i havent heard back from any GM.

really want to know if the GMs will enforce this player-agreed camp rule, or is this going to be ignored.

LOL. This isn't even everquest at this point. This is pathetic. Who fucking cares.

[Torik]

Just play on Red where if you realize you're not going to get Skargus' head, you use an character that is out of PvP range from all the 60s and kill Angry before he pops Skargus. Problem solved.

[Ripqozko]

Just play on Red where if you realize you're not going to get Skargus' head, you use an character that is out of PvP range from all the 60s and kill Angry before he pops Skargus. Problem solved.

no one plays on red, red folks dont play red.

[snyder43]

no one plays on red, red folks dont play red.

Angry Goblin is up on Red right now!

[voydent]

Did you post in the petition forum?

If so, it may be worth popping into the p99 discord and asking the staff that are active in there.

thanks man. followed your advice and messaged the staff that are online. lets see...

[voydent]

LOL. This isn't even everquest at this point. This is pathetic. Who fucking cares.


i dont usually care much. but this is THE infamous angry roll. imagine sitting for 5-6 hours every 3 days for weeks or months. and then have someone steal your skargus head.

i will 100% lawyerquest this to the end..

[Toomuch]

I hope you get it reimbursed man. As much as I hated the rule going against me at that ring8

I also hope we can:

1. Update angry goblin roll to a 1 minute timer
2. Update ring 8 roll to a 1 minute timer
3. Update scout roll to a 1 minute timer
4. Update shady goblin roll to a 1 minute timer
5. Update the ring 10 clickfest to either an agreement*, or a roll with a 1 minute timer.

*IMO, an agreement would be better, but it requires guilds working together on a few things: understanding that not all guilds are able to field a full ring-war force at all hours, and some way to agree on what a "fair" distribution of the wars would be. A system/understanding needs to be put in place for taking turns, and if X amount of time has passed (8, 12, or maybe 16 hours?) without a hand-in to Badain, then you lose your turn and it's FFA etc, BUT you could also play nice and proactively trade spots with a guild that's ready to go, and all that jazz.

Ultimately though, my points here are that it blows my mind that we've agreed everywhere else that clickfest is not what we want to do on this server, that it's bad for X, Y, and Z reasons, except for Ring War, because logic (greed, actually). Similarly, it blows my mind that we've chosen a 30 second timer here, a 10 second timer there, clickfest there, etc, because logic.

Can't we just set more of a rule of thumb here, and have very rare exceptions to the rule, like MAYBE ring10 only?

[circlerogue]

1. Update angry goblin roll to a 1 minute timer
2. Update ring 8 roll to a 1 minute timer
3. Update scout roll to a 1 minute timer
4. Update shady goblin roll to a 1 minute timer
5. Update the ring 10 clickfest to either an agreement*, or a roll with a 1 minute timer.


I agree with this. If I don't like my first roll, 1 minute gives me enough time to camp out and log on another character so I can roll again on another toon.

[kaizersoze]

I agree with this. If I don't like my first roll, 1 minute gives me enough time to camp out and log on another character so I can roll again on another toon.

See why 1 minute is bad already?

[Atmas]

GM's will in fact enforce this. A couple months ago, I won a ring8 roll a few seconds late (because I killed the mobs that had agrod me instead of bringing them to the roll spot) on my warrior, Mahonri, because as I ran up to the camp, nobody was rolling. I waited for about 15 seconds for the rolls to start, then saw ooc "soanso with 901?" or similar, so I rolled, beat it, and got told I was a couple seconds late, and it didn't count. I didn't like it, and explained I felt I did the right thing by not training, and had indeed arrived to the camp in time, but didn't see any rolls happening so I figured it hadn't happened yet. So, the Riot guy that had the next highest roll, within the 30 second timer, petitioned.

About 60 seconds later, Menden showed up to personally handle this petition from the Riot member, and said I had lost because of the strict 30 second timer. I asked if I should have brought the mobs and rolled with them there, possibly training people, and he said if I trained I could have been DQ'd from the roll and gotten in trouble for that as well.

So basically yeah, you won, but... I don't like it. I think it should be 30 seconds for each roll. It's really weird having one precedent for one roll, and a different precedent for another.



So... it's kind of a strange way to look at it in the it's not fair to me because I had a train outlook. No one created the train and set it on you or had you arrive so last minute.

The thing with the increased ranges is someone could do rolls on different characters. Actually, if you have a minute and start camping before the spawn of a static respawn mob you might even be able to get 3 rolls in.

In general the rolling was originally there just to replace a clickfest which could result in the loss of items that took a long time to obtain. Later there were more to just avoid loss all together and not give huge advantages to low latency players. I don't think the intent was ever to make these things a casual lark.

Anyway, if you make it a 1 minute timer there is going to be someone rolling 10 seconds after that and making a thread about how it should be 2 minutes.

[7thGate]

Ideally, I think it should probably be something like:
--Roll at beginning of window
--Whoever wins has to bring their own kill force and actively sock the spawn
--They need to announce turnin in ooc so that anyone AFK in zone can get the timer for their logs
Failure to do step three would be considered a violation of the player agreement with forfeit to the next highest roller on petition.

If you could get buyin to run it that way, then you don't waste a ton of people's time actively socking a window just so they can roll.

[kaizersoze]

we could alternatively reduce the variance window(s) and make socking less terrible. And just roll better ;D

[circlerogue]

--They need to announce turnin in ooc so that anyone AFK in zone can get the timer for their logs

I like your overall idea, but isn't Angry's message zone-wide, meaning that this step would be unnecessary?

[7thGate]

That's even better then. I haven't done this yet, so I'm mostly an outside observer to these discussions at this point, may not have all the details 100%.

[Ripqozko]

no thanks, its fine. Move to resolved.

[Naethyn]

10 seconds is too short. 1 minute is too long. 30 seconds feels just right.

[LazyHydras]

10 seconds is too short. 1 minute is too long. 30 seconds feels just right.

It's the Goldilocks Theory.

[MaCtastic]

These long variance windows are cancer.

[Toomuch]

I'd be good with setting the standard at 30 seconds. It seems short (like is it even enough time to go to the bathroom, let alone wash my hands?) but I definitely agree with needing to make sure people can't roll for multiple toons.

Mostly I'd just like a set standard for all rolls that's reasonable. It seems like that's 30 seconds, and if we could make that update, that'd be great.

Now for something that's sort of related, but sort of branching off topic: If we could also find ways to give people their lives back a little bit, like cutting literally all windows in half (not respawn timers, just windows), that'd be awesome. I think it'd preserve enough of the competitive and difficult nature of the game (which is indeed part of the draw that has brought us all to p99, make no mistake), while making things just a little bit more sane for a lot of people. When an average of like 300-400 man-hours of nothing but waiting and staring are occurring each time an Angry roll happens, that's just rough... and this is on the BLUE server. Think how bad things like this are going to get when the REAL try-hards on Green start going through this. Though maybe they'd just implement the list system and make people stay at their computer for 30 days straight in order to get past the Angry bottleneck. Yikes, just yikes...

My vote is to make a couple healthy adjustments. It doesn't need to be WoW-easy, nor even change the fundamental mechanic, just adjust the window so it's literally healthier.

[Daetien]

I'd agree to change Angry Goblin to 30 seconds. Heaven forbid you turn your head to talk to your kid for a second and roll at 11 seconds.

30 seconds doesn't allow you to log to a different character.

I think it would be better to roll at the beginning of the window to simply reduce the need to poop sock the whole window.

[Lurgort/Sseri]

Even doubling it to 20 seconds would be a world better than 10 seconds.

[Pootle]

I think it would be better to roll at the beginning of the window to simply reduce the need to poop sock the whole window.

I agree with the 20-30sec roll time,

However, i dont think you have thought the above through. Lets see how it would go...

1. Angry window starts...
2. 25 people roll, Player_001 wins. (woohoo)
3. 24 people camp out or leave Droga.
4. Player_001 sits around for 0 to 7 hours waiting for Angry.
5. Angry pops and Player_001 has to get friends to come over and help.

is there a timer at this point, if someone else shows up and Angry sits up for 30mins while Player_001 still finds support, can someone else snipe it?

6. Player_001 gets a few of his guild to come over, they turn in and kill Skargus.

Now Player_001's guild are the only people who know the timer on Angry. Looking pretty good for them on the next roll.

[7thGate]

I think the idea would be that it ideally goes:
1. Angry window start
2. 25 people roll, Player_001 wins
3. 12 people go AFK in Droga, 13 camp or go somewhere else
4. Player_001 sits around for 6 hours waiting for angry
5. Angry pops and Player_001 gets friends to come and help

Time to kill would be open to discussion and should definitely be agreed on before doing this. If you just leave it up you have to lose it at some point.

6. Guild comes over and kills Skargus. Turnin depops Angry and produces a zone wide message from Skargus (probably from what people have said?), setting the time of next roll at +3 days from that point.

7. 12 people come back from AFK over the next day and see the timer, disseminate information to guilds and other people

8. 3 days later, repeat.

[Pootle]

I think the idea would be that it ideally goes:

7. 12 people come back from AFK over the next day and see the timer, disseminate information to guilds and other people



So the idea to avoid having people not have to sit around for the whole window, is to have people sit AFK through the whole window running logs.

I guess its a little better, but it just seems to me to be open to too many issues and problems.

[voydent]

just want to check whether it is common for GMs to come back to you very slowly for petitions relating to people breaking player agreed rules.

im not talking about item reimbursements because you messed up the turn in or some bug. i'm talking about a situation where a person looted the head of skargus even though he was clearly disqualified.

i have been waiting for a reply for 3 weeks now. i have made forum petition, in-game petition, messaged GMs, even talked to some in-game. and none.

[voydent]

Now I feel bad writing the above post

I realise GMs are Guides are helping the best they could during their spare time, without getting paid or for anything in return.

Will just have to be more patient i guess...