SK roles

[Stonewallx39]

I’ve heard that the rule of thumb with Shadowknights is “Ogre if you want to tank, Troll if you want to pull.”

Is the rationale that you need the regen for pulling? I’d think FSI would come in handy to channel that FD when you’re getting beat on. Maybe with Death Peace and the fast cast that isn’t a concern? Or maybe with raid mobs the hits are so hard that you’re not channeling anything and need to gain distance and regen laying down?

Is there anything else that makes a Troll a better puller? Size, green skin, other?

[Jibartik]

That is some serious min maxing but yeah regen would be nice for pulling, but eff I can agree that if there is one thing that is going to make me flip my table is running through mobs and getting stunned, but not sure if its mobs hitting me that initially agro from the front bashing me, or behind anyway. So idk I'd like to try running as an ogre through a ton of mobs but I cant say I have.

But on my barbarian, rooting 4 mobs with a shaman and running through them to move to a different position, makes me want to tear my own head off like a broken robocop (https://youtu.be/qZq7fW6ftlU?t=47) when I get stunned, just because it's annoying.

[Arvan]

I like dark elf for pulling more int bigger mana pool lifetaps/fd/snare all cost mana. Wear fungi/coldain rings for the regen. Also you dont get stuck in every dungeon in the game and also aren’t ugly.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I have a Troll Shadowknight myself.

For Shadowknights, I would say the Troll/Ogre debate comes down to what you prefer to do: Soloing or Grouping. If you prefer to solo, the Troll regeneration will give you a lot more benefit than FSI. https://wiki.project1999.com/Blood_Ember_Greaves and https://wiki.project1999.com/Death_Peace will give you plenty of FD opportunities before you die in most cases.

The inability to use https://wiki.project1999.com/Blood_Ember_Greaves , https://wiki.project1999.com/Blood_Ember_Boots , and https://wiki.project1999.com/Blood_Ember_Gauntlets makes me dislike Iksars, even though they have racial regen as well. They do get https://wiki.project1999.com/Greenmist , but I think it is a little over hyped myself. It is nice to be able to stack Epic and Greenmist procs. However, due to both DoTs having a fairly short timer, that stacking isn't as common as one would like. Whenever the DoTs aren't stacked, Greenmist is just a not quite as good Epic.

If you prefer to group most of the time, FSI is usually the better racial. It maximizes your ability to maintain agro, and adjust to changing situations. Yes, you may not regenerate quite as fast after a bad pull, but you will regenerate pretty fast with a https://wiki.project1999.com/Fungus_Covered_Scale_Tunic , and you will probably have a regeneration spell on as well if one of your group members can do it. Grouping generally speeds everything up, since you will generally have buffs and heals.

[drackgon]

I am Vineslier Orges SK. And tbh Immunity to stun is just 2 amazing. I was barb warrior for tanking as well. Getting stunned all the time sucks. But in long scheme of things, tank being stunned isn't a huge issue. As long as you have agro ur golden. For anyone creating an SK now, personally I'd think Dark elf is the way to go. The high int, which less face it later in game mana pool is a huge thing to SK. Plus added benefit of Ring of dead use.

Trolls are nice for regen, but meh when u get a fungi troll regen won't be nearly as big.

For your question though. There is a lot of times FD fails, and not getting stunned while finally getting off that 2nd cast is nice. but very situational

End result play what you want. :)

[Danth]

Ogre racial is nice if you get mad when you get bash-stunned. Otherwise it's mostly fluff. Most of the shadow knight spells cast fast anyway and none of them are particularly slow thanks to hybrid spellhaste at high levels. The ogre's main advantage lies in its significant statistic bonus. Trolls are good for regeneration, still have pretty good statistics, and if I wanted to feel like I was min-maxing the class that's what I'd pick. However my own shadow knight is human and it has given good service since its creation over 9 years ago. People overthink race to an absurd degree in this game. You're by far best-suited by choosing the race you like the look of the best because the "perfect" character won't do you any good if you never play it because you think it looks stupid.

Danth

[kjs86z]

For pulling go with a smaller race. Human SK is gangsta.

Nothing more annoying than trying to waddle around a dungeon w/ low arches constantly pulling. Yes, shaman are plentiful and shrink is a thing...but that one time you're full size and crouch-waddling at a camp you're gonna hate yourself.

Honestly if it weren't for the DKP I've spent on no drop items, I'd delete my 54 ogre war today and roll a gnome or female halfling.

[Zipity]

Iksar not a Giant, gets regen, gets AC buff, gets greenmist, what am I missing here?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Iksar not a Giant, gets regen, gets AC buff, gets greenmist, what am I missing here?

Shrink is easy to get, and not necessary most of the time.

AC buff isn't anything amazing.

Iksars lose https://wiki.project1999.com/Blood_Ember_Greaves , https://wiki.project1999.com/Blood_Ember_Boots , and https://wiki.project1999.com/Blood_Ember_Gauntlets , which are all great clickies that save mana, and work if you run out of mana.

Greenmist isn't amazing. It is only good when you can stack Epic and Greenmist DoTs, but that isn't a super common occurrence, due to both DoTs having a short timer. Whenever the DoTs aren't stacked, you are getting no benefit from Greenmist. If you proc'd Greenmist instead of Epic, you just have an inferior DoT compared to your Epic.

[Crede]

If you want to pull in raids, just be a monk imo. Even a human monk outclasses an ogre/troll sk in basically every way.

Troll def has the solo edge. But Even my troll sk who has about 500k in gear, it’s still a painfully slow process. When it comes to sks, just play what you like to stare at, there might be 1-2 times in your entire career where you wipe due to not getting Being able to get a fd off because of Stuns.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

If you want to pull in raids, just be a monk imo. Even a human monk outclasses an ogre/troll sk in basically every way.

Troll def has the solo edge. But Even my troll sk who has about 500k in gear, it’s still a painfully slow process. When it comes to sks, just play what you like to stare at, there might be 1-2 times in your entire career where you wipe due to not getting Being able to get a fd off because of Stuns.

Agreed. Many raids don't even give SKs a chance to pull hehe. If you want to pull, being a monk will give you that chance in raids.

Also agreed about soloing. Trolls solo faster, but they still aren't super fast. But this is generally the plight of melee classes, soloing is a slower experience than soloing with a caster.

[fzzzt]

None of it really matters. Period.

As an endgame Ogre SK, I almost never use my BE gear. It doesn't land on virtually anything you fight at endgame. It's just a party trick at this point. You could post-rez snare some chickens near Eashen I guess. I would definitely use Greenmist almost all the time, though (before ToV weapons or maybe epic).

I don't really pull much since we have monks that are much better at that. My FD almost never fails, BTW; really not something I think about. Less often than monks from what I've seen (which IMO is appropriate since it's a spell). I'm 60 and not leveling any more, but when I was I almost never really used that stuff either (I didn't fear kite). I used the bracers for snare most often out of the three major items, followed by the BP buff. I just didn't FD much I guess.

I still get interrupted (just not from frontal bash stun component, usually from push)--don't really care about getting stunned. I could cast in between stuns pretty easily, the only two or three spells that matter are 2s cast or less. Your job is to keep aggro off the people that actually kill the mob.

I never had any issues soloing because (1) this is a damn MMO, don't solo, duo at least, and (2) regen or healing is easy to come by. When I die to a mob that takes me 500-1000 below my HP, regen isn't going to help. Most DoTs take you down too quickly for regen to prevent you from needing heals. If not they are probably wimpy and resists/taps can deal with it.

With buffs I'm max on most stats, and if I'm in a situation where that isn't the case, I'm probably dead because mob scaling is out of whack. Unbuffed I can barely take a round or two from most high-end mobs without copious healing.

If you want to pull, be a monk, or a necro, then SK, then a Ranger/Druid maybe...

Knights in this era are just plain bad. We don't have the discs to tank the big stuff or be good speedbumps. We don't do DPS like the pokey guys. We can aggro better than anyone, though, so we end up taking and putting healers through crap in the hopes that wiz/rogues can kill it fast enough at full throttle. That said, I enjoy playing mine a lot, I tanked Vindi for the first time recently; you just won't be the best at anything, and probably will need to work to be mediocre. Now that I have some nice gear, I regularly get on DPS lists (if I'm not tanking) without discs or anything special really (just haste/buffs), which is exciting. There are some really good ratio top end knight weapons. If you do it right you can get 3 lifetap procs every few seconds + spell, which is a gimmick but is super fun and can help counteract some AEs (but you will still need heals).

Erudite and DE look the coolest, Iksar flops coolest, Ogre snots coolest, Troll uglies the most, and Humans exist too...take your pick. It really doesn't matter that much in the end, so find a non-mechanic reason to play one.

Bottom line is stop caring about endgame min/max and start caring about what's fun.

All that said, objectively, the best is Iksar because they have tails.

GL!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Bottom line is stop caring about endgame min/max and start caring about what's fun.

GL!

Some people do like Min/Maxing, and there is no reason to discourage it. The "play what you want" argument works for people who want to Min/Max too:)

[kaev]

Some people do like Min/Maxing, and there is no reason to discourage it. The "play what you want" argument works for people who want to Min/Max too:)

He's not discouraging minmaxing, he's discouraging minmaxers from claiming that their approach is somehow objectively superior. But then you knew that and made a shitpost that pretends to not be a shitpost anyway.

It's a game, we're here to have fun. It's arrogant and stupid to try to dictate other people's fun. "Best" is subjective, enjoy your minmaxing if that floats your boat, but don't pretend that it is some universal truth version of "best".

[Arvan]

I will say the blood ember greaves are an AMAZING item to have access to. Having that clicky fd when your spell is on cooldown is kind of the best thing ever.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

He's not discouraging minmaxing, he's discouraging minmaxers from claiming that their approach is somehow objectively superior. But then you knew that and made a shitpost that pretends to not be a shitpost anyway.

It's a game, we're here to have fun. It's arrogant and stupid to try to dictate other people's fun. "Best" is subjective, enjoy your minmaxing if that floats your boat, but don't pretend that it is some universal truth version of "best".

I really don't understand this attitude on the P99 forums. It is odd you think I am shitposting when I am just stating the truth.

There is objectively a best race/class combo for each class. This is because Everquest works on math. Whichever race/class combo can do their job the best mathematically is the Min/Max choice. Having racial regeneration, for example, will objectively allow a good player to solo faster.

Nobody here has claimed you must Min/Max to have fun. I am not sure why talking about Min/Maxing makes you think this.

You seem to be claiming that talking about Min/Maxing is equivalent to dictating how people must play. That doesn't make sense at all, and it isn't true.

Knowledge is power, and people like to know what the Min/Max option is. Then they can determine what they are missing if they do not choose the Min/Max option. If they are ok with the loss, no problem! If they are not ok with the loss, they may end up choosing the Min/Max option. It is very simple.

The "play what you want" attitude means you must cater to all players, including Min/Maxers. You shouldn't deride people who help those players out.

I am helping the OP, who wants to know the differences between Shadowknight races. If the OP doesn't care about those differences, they can certainly pick Human or Dark Elf for the fashion:D Nobody in this thread is twisting the OP's arm.

I will say the blood ember greaves are an AMAZING item to have access to. Having that clicky fd when your spell is on cooldown is kind of the best thing ever.

I agree, BE Greaves are a great tool to have.

[Samoht]

^ how is needless defending yourself with another wall of text anything but a shit post? You’re off topic and not contributing.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

^ how is needless defending yourself with another wall of text anything but a shit post? You’re off topic and not contributing.

This is the only example of shitposting here:) You want to silence other people under the guise of "shitposting". Min/Maxing is a valid topic to discuss, even if you don't like it. Take your own advice and contribute to this thread:)

[elwing]

Pick whatever race for sk you prefer... The difference is honestly tiny for raids... And if you really want to min/max more, roll another class...

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Pick whatever race for sk... The difference is honestly tiny for raids... And if you really want to min/max more, roll another class...

You can still Min/Max a Shadowknight. Just because they aren't one of top classes in the P99 timeline doesn't mean you can't make the best Shadowknight possible. Some people want to make the best Shadowknight possible, even though it is not the best class out there. That is fun for some people.

I completely agree that if you want to play a large role in raids, you should pick another class. Shadowknights sadly do not get much play in raids. If you want to be a raid tank, go Warrior. If you want to be a puller, go Monk. If you want to be great DPS, go Rogue. If you want to offtank trash and get super cheap raid gear, go Shadowknight:)

[Danth]

The problem with min-max isn't that some folks might do so from a hobbyist standpoint. The problem is that, being realistic, most folks do it because other games have trained them that they have to whereas in EQ it's complete fluff. EQ's a very loosely-tuned game. Virtually all "group" content can be solo'd or duo'd. The small advantage gained through character creation min-max in this game serves virtually no purpose in actual practice. I do not tell a hobbyist min-maxer not to do what he enjoys; I tell a regular everyday player not to bother with it because there's no need to do so in this game. For most folks, selecting their character race based on appearance is by far the most important long-term consideration.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

The problem with min-max isn't that some folks might do so from a hobbyist standpoint. The problem is that, being realistic, most folks do it because other games have trained them that they have to whereas in EQ it's complete fluff. EQ's a very loosely-tuned game. Virtually all "group" content can be solo'd or duo'd. The small advantage gained through character creation min-max in this game serves virtually no purpose in actual practice. I do not tell a hobbyist min-maxer not to do what he enjoys; I tell a regular everyday player not to bother with it because there's no need to do so in this game. For most folks, selecting their character race based on appearance is by far the most important long-term consideration.

Danth

I agree, there is not as much of a need to Min/Max in Everquest as in other games. That is why I never say you must play X race/class combination to be successful.

However, if someone is asking a Min/Max question, it should be answered honestly. There are people who want to Min/Max in Everquest, and I find it odd that some people are hostile towards Min/Maxing. I am not saying you are (you are not), but other people seem to jump to strange conclusions.

Saying "Play what looks good" isn't really answering OP's question. I would imagine if OP mostly cared about fashion, they wouldn't be asking this question in the first place.

Some racial bonuses/items considerably increase one's ability to kill mobs, especially if you prefer to solo. For people who do not have as much time to play per session, that IS an important consideration.

For people who want the best character they can make, there is no reason not to know which character has the best end-game capability, even if it is marginal. This is especially true for people who either do not care what they look like, or happen to like what the Min/Max option looks like.

[Danth]

I would imagine if OP mostly cared about fashion, they wouldn't be asking this question in the first place.

Maybe he would: Again, a lot of folks come here from other environments that train them into thinking they have to eek out every advantage possible. At any rate, I try to do both: I'll answer what I think of as the min-max choice (troll in this case, for this class) while always reminding folks that they shouldn't feel compelled to do so--which is what I did in my earlier post in this thread. We're on the same page here, I think.

Solo is an interesting considering because if you mean leveling then racial regeneration is not a strong enough advantage to compensate for the 20% experience penalty that both regen races are saddled with. Regen's nice being able to make up health while feigned or hidden AFK; that's mainly why I like it, although as noted my own shadow knight is human. It's also nice if you're solo-farming at max level someplace with high green /con opponents that do modest but not extreme damage.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Maybe he would: Again, a lot of folks come here from other environments that train them into thinking they have to eek out every advantage possible. At any rate, I try to do both: I'll answer what I think of as the min-max choice (troll in this case, for this class) while always reminding folks that they shouldn't feel compelled to do so--which is what I did in my earlier post in this thread. We're on the same page here, I think.

Solo is an interesting considering because if you mean leveling then racial regeneration is not a strong enough advantage to compensate for the 20% experience penalty that both regen races are saddled with. Regen's nice being able to make up health while feigned or hidden AFK; that's mainly why I like it, although as noted my own shadow knight is human. It's also nice if you're solo-farming at max level someplace with high green /con opponents that do modest but not extreme damage.

Danth

Yes, we are certainly on the same page.

The benefits of Troll/Iksar Regeneration while soloing do vary based on if you have a Fungi Tunic or not. If you do not have a Fungi Tunic, levels 1-50 you regenerate twice as fast as other races. This theoretically means you should be able to solo up to 2x as fast. That should overcome the 20% penalty. This does assume you mostly solo. If you group often, the 20% penalty will cause you to level slower, and the regeneration won't really help.

If you do have a Fungi, then levels 1-50 aren't really going to be affected too much by racial regeneration. Levels 1-19 you will only be getting +2 regeneration sitting, and +3 at levels 20-49. The +15 from Fungi is way better than that, and you aren't losing much by not having racial regeneration.

Troll/Ikar Regeneration becomes much better 51+. At level 60 you will be getting +8 standing, which means you have 1.5x Fungis at level 60. That should allow you to solo up to 1.5x faster.

EDIT: With Epic and Ring 10, it is not quite as good, since both of those add extra regeneration. You get +25 from Fungi and Ring 10. Assuming you proc Epic 3 times in a 3 minute fight, that is an extra 30 Regeneration. +8 will be a 15% increase. So it's about a 15% increase in solo speed with all of the goodies. Troll/Iksar Regeneration would mostly nullify https://wiki.project1999.com/Soul_Defiler 's -11HP per tick. You would still be getting +22 from Fungi and Ring 10, and whatever you get from Epic.

[Stonewallx39]

Thank you to everyone who’s responded. One of the reasons I love the forums is it’s a fairly free place where ideas can battle in the arena. Definitely didn’t see much in the way of “shit posts” but hey maybe I don’t have an eye for it.

To add a little clarity, I am concerned with min/max to the capacity of not wanting to be pigeon holed into one role because of racial selection. I like variety and the SK can definitely fulfill a number of duties when pressed into service. I’m not part of a true end game guild but do raid regularly (combined forces, mediums sized targets, etc.). Where we have more opportunities for less than optimized role filling.

I wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing an important game mechanic that would be painfully obvious after a 50+ lvl grind. Just for point of preference I don’t think I’ll play a non-large race melee again, I’m just too in love with slam (I know it’s possible to switch to a shield but convenience people!).

Thanks again!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Thank you to everyone who’s responded. One of the reasons I love the forums is it’s a fairly free place where ideas can battle in the arena. Definitely didn’t see much in the way of “shit posts” but hey maybe I don’t have an eye for it.

To add a little clarity, I am concerned with min/max to the capacity of not wanting to be pigeon holed into one role because of racial selection. I like variety and the SK can definitely fulfill a number of duties when pressed into service. I’m not part of a true end game guild but do raid regularly (combined forces, mediums sized targets, etc.). Where we have more opportunities for less than optimized role filling.

I wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing an important game mechanic that would be painfully obvious after a 50+ lvl grind. Just for point of preference I don’t think I’ll play a non-large race melee again, I’m just too in love with slam (I know it’s possible to switch to a shield but convenience people!).

Thanks again!

No problem! You certainly will not be pigeon holed based on race. Honestly this doesn't happen with any class/race combination in P99. As long as you are good at your class, people don't really care.

Troll Regeneration will help quite a bit if you prefer to solo, unless you have a https://wiki.project1999.com/Fungus_Covered_Scale_Tunic ready to go for this new character. Shadowknights only get Regeneration, Bind Wound, and https://wiki.project1999.com/Dark_Runed_Breastplate (or Kael/Skyshrine equivalent) for out of combat recovery. You should get https://wiki.project1999.com/Embalmers_Skinning_Knife to Bind Wound yourself, and speed up recovery times.

Ogre Frontal Stun Immunity is good for any situation where you are getting hit, and will give you more mileage in groups/raids. This is because racial regeneration isn't that big of a deal in groups/raids, since you will have a dedicated healer most of the time.

[Crede]

I feel like min maxing on an sk makes even more sense, because they need help as much as possible due to being so inferior in the classic era. Trolls also look great in plate and have the best custom helm, easy decision imo.

[Jimjam]

Min maxing on an sk doesn’t make sense as a min max ethos informs roll a better class.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I feel like min maxing on an sk makes even more sense, because they need help as much as possible due to being so inferior in the classic era. Trolls also look great in plate and have the best custom helm, easy decision imo.

Agreed. Trolls look great.

Min maxing on an sk doesn’t make sense as a min max ethos informs roll a better class.

Incorrect. You can still Min/Max a Shadowknight. Min/Max does not only imply rolling the optimal classes.

[Crede]

Min maxing on an sk doesn’t make sense as a min max ethos informs roll a better class.

Is min maxing wars, clerics, and rogues really a thing though?

Best war is the one who has their disc available, and cleric/rogue racial advantages are microscopic.

[Oddbaal]

Go erudite! Super intelligence for lots of spells and such! Or min max it as others have covered. Anyone care to theorize and lay out a min-max approach to an erudite SK? I’d be interested; for the red server so no 40% exp penalty. 0pp budget

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Go erudite! Super intelligence for lots of spells and such! Or min max it as others have covered. Anyone care to theorize and lay out a min-max approach to an erudite SK? I’d be interested; for the red server so no 40% exp penalty. 0pp budget

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:EruditeSKMan

From a stat perspective Erudite is the best SK with BiS Velious gear, since INT/WIS is harder to get on BiS tank gear, and INT/WIS buffs give you less stat points than the melee stat buffs. As you can see from the Magelo, his INT is still not maxed even as an Erusite, but all his melee stats are either maxed or will be maxed with buffs. Erudites also get +5 MR, which is better than the other SK races base resistances.

You would basically do 20 int as your starting stats, and you would need to make sure you have some agi gear on at all times.

However, I would say the racial regen from trolls or FSI from Ogres would give you more mileage than the extra bit of max mana you get from an Erudite. Shadowknights get quite a few ways to reduce their mana useage: Flowing Thought items, a lot of useful clickies, and Soul Defiler.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I did edit the Magelo for the Erudite SK to be a little more balanced, which some extra INT gear. You would do +5 AGI +15 INT as starting stats instead. With Primal Avatar and Enlightenment, you would have 255 AGI, 255 DEX, and 254 INT.

[Keebz]

Erudites also get +5 MR, which is better than the other SK races base resistances.


That's actually pretty nice. Forgot about that.

[Crede]

If you care anything about fashion while trying to gear higher end stay away from Erudites. While they have some cool armor like steelsilk, they look pretty awful at the high end. Their velious helm is bugged, custom in particular, and helms which have no graphic like crown of narandi will give you a naked looking purple head. You have to really look around for a helm with a graphic that will take on the same color as your gauntlets.

[Bardp1999]

Dark Elf SK is the sexiest of all race/class combos

[Nirgon]

My Erudite SK is destroying group content on green.

Ordinarily I'd go ogre, which is a no brainer, but ogres can't join DMO.

[Noselacri]

FSI became a lot less great after the bash mechanic was changed. Instead of absolute immunity to bash interrupt, ogres are now about 30% "resistant" to it. Bash used to always stun no matter what, and had no inherent interrupt beyond the stun itself, but now it has three potential outcomes which appear to be equally common:

1) You get stunned. If you're not an ogre, being stunned also interrupts your casting.
2) Your casting is interrupted, whether or not the bash stuns.
3) The bash did not stun or interrupt, it merely dealt some damage.

Ogres are immune only to #1. #3 is irrelevant to anyone since it doesn't do anything, and #2 interrupts anyone, including ogres. Bash doesn't always stun, and doesn't always interrupt, so FSI really just cuts the chance to be interrupted by bash from (I assume) ~66% to ~33%. It's probably still the best race unless you're determined to solo a lot with your SK, but it doesn't blow the other races out of the water like it did when bash was a 100% interrupt for non-ogres and never for ogres.

[Fammaden]

What's the best race for being told to log off and get on a shared cleric to join the CH chain?

[Jimjam]

What's the best race for being told to log off and get on a shared cleric to join the CH chain?

Erudite, wield a mace. /role and cast dark empathy every 10 seconds. Counts as cleric.

[Dokuton]

I'd really appreciate hearing more about playing an SK without slam. I'm pretty set on making an Iksar SK eventually but the thought of being gimped at all times when using a 2hander seems like a heavy cost. Is slamming with a 2 hander a significant damage boost?

[elwing]

Nope, but slam lets you interrupt some casters, you can always switch to epic or one hander if you don't have slam...

[Ennewi]

If only bash damage was based on shield AC, with Slam being based on pauldron AC. Both attacks miss too often to be relied on solely, but are still decent at preventing spellcasters from using all of their mana in a fight. Still, additional damage would have given some incentive to wield in place of two-handed weapons.

[Danth]

Bash is nice. It won't kill you if you can't bash, but you'll notice once in awhile. Its effect on damage output is fair at low level when the skill is first learned, but slight at high level because bash damage does not scale anywhere near as fast as melee damage. Bash's larger bonus is for after-the-fact caster interrupts when you want to stop a cast already in progress. Interrupts on a Shadow Knight otherwise largely require the advance planning of snare--fear. As far as racial abilities go slam is a nice one, but if you don't have it you certainly aren't "gimped."

Danth

[Toxigen]

SK roles:

trash mob tanking

swapping to cleric bot for CH chain while warriors do bosses

[Stonewallx39]

I'd really appreciate hearing more about playing an SK without slam. I'm pretty set on making an Iksar SK eventually but the thought of being gimped at all times when using a 2hander seems like a heavy cost. Is slamming with a 2 hander a significant damage boost?

With the changes in melee push no longer interrupting spell casting (maybe there’s a 1% chance?) slam has become extremely useful. If you prevent a mob from casting a heal or dropping a big nuke you might as well have increased your damage output substantially. I play an ogre on blue and had a complete different experience leveling in zones like Paw, KC, and the hole where you would regularly have big heals undo all the DPS you’ve done when I played on my monk

I could count on 1 hand the number of times I’ve seen a tank switch from a 2hander/duel wielding (for it warrior it should be even easier) mid combat and get a bash of in time to interrupt a spell. It’s more common to see a smart tank switch when the mob first comes into camp and just live with the lower DPS during the fight.

Slam makes it so you don’t have to pick and always have that tool at the ready to interrupt. Also caveat, there are some awesome pally/SK 1handers and DPS from the tank is not a primary concern (assuming your grouping). If your soloing on an SK keeping a mob feared will keep it from casting.

IMO it’s a big deal, but also not game breaking if you choose a race without.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I'd really appreciate hearing more about playing an SK without slam. I'm pretty set on making an Iksar SK eventually but the thought of being gimped at all times when using a 2hander seems like a heavy cost. Is slamming with a 2 hander a significant damage boost?

Biggest downside to Iksars is not being able to use Blood Ember Gauntlets, Boots, and Legs. Having a free, no cooldown Feign Death is very useful in solo and group situations. Same with the gloves. These two items save quite a bit of mana, since you do not need to spend mana on FD and Snare.

Greenmist is a nice weapon, but it will be replaced eventually, whereas Blood Ember Legs and Gloves will always be useful. The boots are great in solo situations, but they do require quite a bit of effort to use, so some people don't like them that much.

[Bockscar]

I'd really appreciate hearing more about playing an SK without slam. I'm pretty set on making an Iksar SK eventually but the thought of being gimped at all times when using a 2hander seems like a heavy cost. Is slamming with a 2 hander a significant damage boost?

The damage from bash is negligible. It's gotta be less than 1 DPS.

Personally, I don't think slam matters all that much. You're not likely to be soloing a bunch of caster mobs, and if you do solo, you're probably fear-kiting anyway. In a group where your DPS is borderline irrelevant, it's better to use a shield anyway for the stats. There's like two or three 2h weapons in the entire game that have better stats than you could get out of a 1h+shield, and by the time you have one of them, your resists are probably high enough that it no longer matters very much whether you can bash. I guess if you really care that much whether you do 40 or 50 DPS while tanking in Sebilis and want to retain the ability to bash caster mobs, it's something; but bash has a seriously shitty chance to hit anyway.

Pre-Kunark it's a bit different because the SK 1h weapons are mostly trash and there aren't any good shields prior to raid drops, so most people will be better served using a mithril 2h or whatever in groups. As soon as Kunark comes out, you get a number of awesome buyable 1h weapons and shields which means even ogre/troll SKs often use sword and board. Then there's the epic which anyone can bash with. Honestly, slam is just not that important. For most people, 1h+shield is better than 2h anyway, and to those with the luxury of owning a Vulak or Tunare 2h, are you still doing content where it matters whether or not you can bash?

[Danth]

Greenmist is a nice weapon, but it will be replaced eventually

Note: The quoted comment only applies to folks who want to hang out in high-end raid guilds. Greenmist is one of the best weapons available to players who aren't particularly interested in the high-end rat race.

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Hit chance on bash feels like it may as well be a 50/50 shot. It's probably more than that but it misses so often it shouldn't be relied upon in must-not-fail situations. It's nice to have for interrupting casters when whatever annoying spell they're casting isn't worth stopping via snare-fear. As an Iksar you might not want to use a 2H weapon regardless. Many players seemingly detest the Iksar 2H attack animation.

Danth

[Dokuton]

Solid feedback, thank you all for sharing.

[Crede]

Bash definitely works more than 50% of the time, it's great for soloing, grouping, and even stopping mobs when fear kiting. I believe bashing from behind gives you a greater chance of success from what I heard but I haven't really tested this. Regardless, it's just a fantastic ability all around especially when paired with the many good 2h weapons out there now which makes having slam even nicer, although epic can be swapped in eventually to make up for this. It might not be the deciding factor when picking a race but it's still really really good.

[Tsunami21k]

It depends on what you want to do really. Currently leveling an iksar sk, lvl 56 right now, just acquired greenmist as well.
Played a DE on live to 65.

The iksar really comes into its own 55+ with some gear. The AC bonus isn’t earth shattering, but it helps. I’m in mostly mid tier gear and I eclipse 1200 ac raid buffed. Trash mobs on raids are doable, if they can be slowed. Greenmist gets resisted often from what I’ve seen.
Could change at 60 but we will see.

Group tanking however is a joy. Literally. With shroud and greenmist and decent AC, the amount of healing that I require is drastically less than what I needed prior to acquiring my Greenmist. On golems in the hole a cleric can start their ch on me at 20% and I’ll end up just fine.

All antecdotal here, but I’m very happy with iksar as a sk race. If I could re roll any other race I really wouldn’t. The ogre stats and FSI are nice, but I hit close to max stats raid buffed and when I have upgraded more gear I will easily hit max in the important stats. As far as losing fsi, as long as I can snap off a spell here and there I can hold aggro with attack off. Is it annoying? Yeah for sure, but I really can live without it.

TLDR: for an SK. Play what you think looks coolest. As long as you know how to play the class you’ll be fine.