war weapon by aggro

[wagorf]

Someone made this awesome list - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WjyFoAuqCrhWKdMKTSRAWsF8SlBQHhOS0EZu-kendZM/edit#gid=0

Just want to double check if it's still accurate as of today.

Meaning that if one wants to stick with dual wield, the best weapons for aggro would be below (excluding sod).

For some reason, the most common set up I see on raiding wars is a mix of willsapper, red epic, and trident. Why do they not use nev horn or feverblade?

Primary
1. Feverblade
2. Red epic
3. Willsapper
4. Frostbringer
5. Trident deep sea

Secondary
1. Red epic
2. Nev horn
3. Feverblade
4. Trident deep sea
5. Frostbringer

[Allishia]

Cause that list is baloney.

Best is sod, if no sod, red blade and trident win eq cause stats and good agro /nod. :p

[Arvan]

In a recent patch all weapons got hard capped at 400 aggro per proc if your class cant natively cast the spell (read: all warrior weapons) except for red blade epic which is 700.

So pretty much ignore the proc and look at ratios and get epic.

For hard fights warriors dont even rely on procs too much for initial aggro its always a clicky and then the procs are just subsequent supplemental aggro.

[wagorf]

Cause that list is baloney.

Best is sod, if no sod, red blade and trident win eq cause stats and good agro /nod. :p

so true

[Naethyn]

Nev horn is terrible aggro, because it doesn't have a -ac component. Go for weapons that have +hp and a proc.

[Sunstar]

From the patch notes:
Haynar: Capped non-damage hate component for out of class procs/clickies to 400 hate.

with that in mind the spreadsheet should be be pretty accurate, without some other non-mentioned nerfs. It does however make some assumptions about the initial hate from a non-damage proc

Also, for the red blade, im not sure where the 700 number comes from, but according to the wiki the proc is:

1 : Decrease HP when cast by 100
2 : Increase Hate by 500

which would be (Hate+Damage) 500+100 = 600. The 700 number could be right, i just didnt see any specific mention of that number.

These are all just best guesses because most of the indepth testing happened before the nerf.

[JackofSpade]

Cause that list is baloney.

Best is sod, if no sod, red blade and trident win eq cause stats and good agro /nod. :p

SOD proc rate is broken actually, so it sadly doesn't make the list =(

Nev horn is terrible aggro, because it doesn't have a -ac component. Go for weapons that have +hp and a proc.

What makes you say that the Nev horn proc not having a negative AC component makes the proc less than 400 hate?

From the patch notes:
Haynar: Capped non-damage hate component for out of class procs/clickies to 400 hate.

with that in mind the spreadsheet should be be pretty accurate, without some other non-mentioned nerfs. It does however make some assumptions about the initial hate from a non-damage proc

Also, for the red blade, im not sure where the 700 number comes from, but according to the wiki the proc is:

1 : Decrease HP when cast by 100
2 : Increase Hate by 500

which would be (Hate+Damage) 500+100 = 600. The 700 number could be right, i just didnt see any specific mention of that number.

These are all just best guesses because most of the indepth testing happened before the nerf.

The only place that said Epic proc is 700 hate is Arvan's post in this thread. He is either bad at math or made a typo. Epic is 600, but is still BIS because of stats and that the SOD is broken.

[JackofSpade]

There is also something missing from all of these calculations, which is the DoT effect from some of these procs. For example, Sword of the Shissar is listed on that spreadsheet as 430 hate proc, which calculates the poison counter + DD hate (400 + 30dd). However, there is 27 / tick dot for 7 ticks totaling 189 damage. Whether this damage is calculated into the initial hate of the proc, or is added to hate as the damage occurs, must be factored into the hate in some way.

Conversely, the Feverblade could be right near the top of the list at a 510 initial hate proc (400 from poison counters + 110dd), but the proc is broken and actually heals the mob over time, so it may not outperform other weapons with a similar ratio and threat proc.

[Baler]

Someone should make an awesome list on the wiki
cough

[JackofSpade]

Someone made this awesome list - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WjyFoAuqCrhWKdMKTSRAWsF8SlBQHhOS0EZu-kendZM/edit#gid=0



For some reason, the most common set up I see on raiding wars is a mix of willsapper, red epic, and trident. Why do they not use nev horn or feverblade?



To answer the question of the OP...at the end of the day with the nerfs to proc agro, there isn't a tremendous difference it hate generated by procs, so you will see warriors go with weapons that have a good ratio for white damage agro, and with good stats for survivability.

The reason you see Willsapper so often is because it is relatively easy to attain, has a good ratio at 13/20, has 35hp and 9ac, and has the slow proc which can be useful soloing / grouping (or rarely even on a raid level mob). Trident is 50hp, good ratio, and more importantly the 10% slow proc is cold based, which can land on otherwise unslowable mobs such as vyemm.

Nev / Feverblade are less common because they have 0 hp. Feverblade would be a great agro proc and be amazing in situations where hp wasn't critical, if the proc wasn't broken.

[JackofSpade]

Someone should make an awesome list on the wiki
cough

There would need to be a little bit of testing done on how DoT procs effect hate generated, and on some other different procs, but that would be awesome to get onto the wiki if those knowledge gaps can be filled in.

[Naethyn]

What makes you say that the Nev horn proc not having a negative AC component makes the proc less than 400 hate?

Take a look at https://wiki.project1999.com/Cracked_Claw_of_Zlandicar which has the proc https://wiki.project1999.com/Incapacitate . This is a very high aggro proc (equal to slow), because it has a -AC component.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Nevederia%27s_Horn has https://wiki.project1999.com/Suffocate which is a very low aggro proc, becuase it doesn't have the -AC component. While the ratio is good and high aggro, you are not going to be turning mobs with a proc that isn't slow, poison counters, or -AC.

[Allishia]

Well sod might be broke but I know I loved it when I got to borrow one, never had agro issues and was most fun wep ever :p

[Zipity]

Such good aggro weapons in DN and all relatively easy to obtain
https://wiki.project1999.com/Willsapper
https://wiki.project1999.com/Infestation
https://wiki.project1999.com/Chelaki_Tail
https://wiki.project1999.com/Wrapped_Entropy_Serpent_Spine

[Goodest]

Primary
1. Feverblade (procs ALOT 400 hate proc + 110 dd)
2. Red epic its 500 hate proc + 100 hp dd ( gets resist all the time so mostly just 500 hate)
3. Willsapper 13/20 with a slow proc thats around low 300's hate (tested it)
4. Trident deep sea (slow proc with a dot) around low 300's hate also (still working on this one)
5. Sword of the Shissar (400 hate proc)

Secondary
1. Red epic
2. Trident deep sea [Nev horn ( no just NO) this is white dmg only and dumb]
3. Feverblade (see above)
4. Infestation (400 hate + a dot)
5. Frostbringer (400 hate nothing else)


A warriors white dmg helps a little but its all about the procs now that you cant clicky your way to hate.

[Goodest]

Well sod might be broke but I know I loved it when I got to borrow one, never had agro issues and was most fun wep ever :p

you also got a golden scepter to run around with...

[Naethyn]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Tserrina%27s_Whip

is a great weapon that is relatively unknown, snares mr immune mobs. probably the "lowest level" weapon i carry.

[kaizersoze]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Tserrina%27s_Whip

is a great weapon that is relatively unknown, snares mr immune mobs. probably the "lowest level" weapon i carry.

Tserrina is a rude girl in TOFS. Probably why. SHe has some cool stuff though.

[Samoht]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Tserrina%27s_Whip

is a great weapon that is relatively unknown, snares mr immune mobs. probably the "lowest level" weapon i carry.

Too bad that .3 ratio means you won’t be able to keep up with white aggro without a lot of procs. The proc is useful, but this is the type of weapon you’ll need to switch out after it lands.

[Raev]

I am fairly sure that guide is using the Monk rates of DA/DW rather than the warrior ones, which are 0.52 and 0.6 respectively. Also all of the misspelled item names trigger my OCD.

To answer your original question: for literally a decade threat generation simply didn't matter here due to massive clicky use, so everyone wanted a Vulak katana and a Blade of Carnage for +200 HP and huge +STA. I guess that habits are hard to break!

I don't understand why any raiding warrior would not use the Jagged Blade of War and bag the Willsapper and Trident unless you want the slow procs. It's more damage, more threat, roughly the same stats as the 1H combos, and as a bonus eats fewer ripostes. I guess the swirling blue/red color is a matter of taste; I don't really love it but it's not enough to make me use something else. By the way Baler, Sakuragi's Warrior Guide does include some hate calculations that are basically correct. But really there should be four lists, for Classic, Kunark, Velious, and Velious after the 2H adjustment.

By the way, the scabbard is the difficult part of the warrior epic. I simply did the blade/hilt quests twice so I could have both the 1H and 2H versions available without wasting a bag slot. I think at some point you are supposed to be able to do the combine with a Sword of Runes as well.

[Jimjam]

On live you could bypass the rest of the quest once you had the scabbard. As you say, sword of runes.

You could even have duplicates during LDoN era; an augmentable and unaugmentable version of each sword. GMs deleted my spares when they caught me with two reds. Told me it was a bug.

[Snaggles]

While a scruffy weapon these days (except the ringed mace) Ykesha still proves a great aggro proc due to the brief interupt. I used a Ykeshan War Club with a Frostbringer around 40 and was very impressed. Later swapped for a Sarnak Warhammer since stun is a more functional proc.

Aggro weapons aren’t what they once were. There are still great aggro weapons. There are also cheap but good ones that will suffice. Many warriors are still using the wrong weapons and dps is jumping in too early. These are all facts.

[kjs86z]

If you plan on never doing war epic or VP, whats the best combo?

Trident + ???

(edit: vulak loot doesnt count)

[Allishia]

Prolly trident and willsaper? If not doing vp or epic anyway...

[Ripqozko]

Prolly trident and willsaper? If not doing vp or epic anyway...

yea probably trident and willsapper

id rather use trident +shissar tho, get a vp key

[Naethyn]

I really like cracked claw of zlandicar + infestation (trident, but thats a really hard to get wep).

Incapacitate is a really good debuff that is usually skipped whereas every slow weapon usually don't hold. Also piercing has 10 less skill.

[Naethyn]

Also, 2 blood points with a haste that is better than your group's and a fungi is great 50-60.

[Raev]

If you plan on never doing war epic or VP, whats the best combo?

Trident + ???

(edit: vulak loot doesnt count)

Frostreaver is the clear bargain choice IMO. It's 2 hate per second less than the epic and has slightly inferior stats, but it also puts out +5 dps, probably goes for pretty low DKP, and doesn't have obnoxious key/level requirements. Troxx (Bedavir) was very happy with his.

My sperglord calculator values the consistency of 2H and the additional damage, and it considers Palladius, Gaudralek, Frostreaver, and the Jagged Blade to be all more or less equivalent and mildly superior to all of the various 1H combinations that don't include the SoD or 'real' Blade of Carnage.

[jijii]

WAY more people should be using 2h, than are, for hate/threat and/or dps

[Zipity]

My 52 warrior loves his frostreaver but I can’t wait to get a trident, 10% slows into raid mobs that are otherwise unslowable is nothing to scoff at.

[Allishia]

I have lots of 2handers but they def don't hold agro compared to epic/trident. Mostly just toys when not main tanking or fun in groups when you go zerker.

I tried using vymm 2handr for vindi once and it just ping ponged till I swapped back to agro weps. Maybe frostreaver is good but dark elf can't use it, got one on my pally though :p

Only mob I use a 2h on is the vs in KC. But I tanked him a lot with 1 handers too and had no issue long as evasive was running.

[kjs86z]

Frostreaver is the clear bargain choice IMO. It's 2 hate per second less than the epic and has slightly inferior stats, but it also puts out +5 dps, probably goes for pretty low DKP, and doesn't have obnoxious key/level requirements. Troxx (Bedavir) was very happy with his.

My sperglord calculator values the consistency of 2H and the additional damage, and it considers Palladius, Gaudralek, Frostreaver, and the Jagged Blade to be all more or less equivalent and mildly superior to all of the various 1H combinations that don't include the SoD or 'real' Blade of Carnage.

Great idea. My war is 54, might put the fatty on the shelf until I can get a Dain Axe.

Been using a Vyemm whip + Frostbringer... that rune proc is amazing when there isn't a cleric around.

[Naethyn]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Silver_Whip_of_Rage
https://wiki.project1999.com/The_Scimitar_of_Lifestealing

Is an amazing combo I use when grouping. 150 LT + 150 rune is hard to beat.

[Zipity]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Silver_Whip_of_Rage
https://wiki.project1999.com/The_Scimitar_of_Lifestealing

Is an amazing combo I use when grouping. 150 LT + 150 rune is hard to beat.

Yah add a willsapper to that then swap in scimitar after slowed is my dream twink setup lol on fungi ikky war with ring 10 ofc

[kjs86z]

Got a Frostreaver, am not disappointed.

Highly recommended for anyone able to get Dain. By far the best bang-for-your-buck dkp 2 hander.

[Stonewallx39]

What about as more of an up and coming Warrior (on a budget) what are the best aggro weapons? Maybe it doesn’t matter until 50+ as I’ve heard I’ll struggle regardless.

My warrior is approaching 40 and I have Venomous axe mainhand and frostbringer offhand for my aggro set up (will switch once 40). Is this approach totally off base? I use staff of battle for DPS fwiw.

Are their tiers of aggro weaps to aim for? I will have access to kael/hate/fear/DN level raiding mobs but definitely not VP.

[Snaggles]

What about as more of an up and coming Warrior (on a budget) what are the best aggro weapons? Maybe it doesn’t matter until 50+ as I’ve heard I’ll struggle regardless.

My warrior is approaching 40 and I have Venomous axe mainhand and frostbringer offhand for my aggro set up (will switch once 40). Is this approach totally off base? I use staff of battle for DPS fwiw.

Are their tiers of aggro weaps to aim for? I will have access to kael/hate/fear/DN level raiding mobs but definitely not VP.

The 400 per proc threshold is very difficult to overcome. For that reason it’s easy to gear for a budget. Sure the epic warriors will hold aggro better but don’t fret. Frostbringer MH is the best thing you can do at the moment. Dump the Ven Axe as it doesn’t even meet the hate max. I went with a Ykeshan War Club (procs like 35?) and then a Sarnak Warhammer. The Traciloc’s Skean is another throw-away reward for anyone doing a rogue epic.

Not sure about the snare whip or tash stick meeting the 400 hate cap but they are nice pieces to have in your “kit”.

Keep leveling. Don’t fall into the “I can’t tank without ____” bs. Just don’t use the objectively wrong weapons in the same price bracket. You will never snap aggro like a knight so don’t worry about that. Get your hps/ac up and go for the dps/disc tank roles. That’s where a pally or SK can’t match you.

[Jimjam]

Trochillic’s Skean doesn’t proc til 45 or 46 iirc. It’s pretty good for those mid 40s and early 50s levels before you start fighting too much stun immune stuff.

Scimitar of Ykesha might be worth a look in; spam /who all kithicor and if you see some high levels ask if they are doing rogue epic/dark elves and whether you can come ‘help out’ in exchange for the soy.

[Allishia]

For budget weps frostbringer and snare whip are just fine and decent dps /nod

[strongNpretty]

I need some more information on the Tserrina's whip... Seems like a really cool whip to be honest.. Seems like maybe an upgrade to the silken whip of ensnaring? But that primary only might be a problem.. I do like the idea of the snare being poison and not magic based though.... I also like that it procs at 35, that's legit.. What's agro like for muscle lock? Good enough to keep this in primary?

https://wiki.project1999.com/Tserrina's_Whip

[Zipity]

It’s typically just used as a utility weapon to ensnare MR immune mobs not as a tank item as the ratio is poor.

[jijii]

it’s dogshit for leveling. threat barely matters while leveling, just get the most dps out as you can and turn over those db kills as fast as possible

[Zipity]

it’s dogshit for leveling. threat barely matters while leveling, just get the most dps out as you can and turn over those db kills as fast as possible

This entire thread is literally about threat/aggro.

[Snaggles]

It’s difficult to compare procs since they are random. For aggro as a ranger flame lick > snare. For a SK disease cloud or shadow vortex > darkness. It’s a good thing too, sometimes you’re just trying to keep a mob from running and they get resisted a lot.

In my experience (which isn’t saying much) magic based snare is meh. I’ll take a slow, stun, ykesha, or dd/ac debuff or stun any day. These effects have intrinsic benefits besides aggro if they land, if not you still get gravy aggro. Low HP dots with poison/disease counters or blind spells suck for all but meeting the aggro cap. If you are a knight you just spam them due to cheap mana cost and repop time.

[Naethyn]

Tserrina whip has 2 poison counters, mr based snares do not. This puts it on level with slow for aggro. Unlike ranger snare.

[strongNpretty]

Tserrina whip has 2 poison counters, mr based snares do not. This puts it on level with slow for aggro. Unlike ranger snare.

Thanks Naethyn… So what if I was using Whip for primary and infestation for secondary? Is that silly?

[Snaggles]

Why not a Frostbringer main and swap the whip if you need to snare stuff?

[strongNpretty]

Why not a Frostbringer main and swap the whip if you need to snare stuff?

Honest answer? Cause I tried hard for the T'whip. And I was excited to have 2 badass no drops to use basically fulltime. As a casual warrior, i'm sure many are in the same boat as being stuck with that frostbringer axe for your entire career. But the whip just dooooesn't seem to hold enough agro… However I still can't remove it from main hand just yet, I just can't!!! It's kinda like how many folks get tired of seeing druids with sarnak battle shields haha....

[Snaggles]

A lot of warriors use objectively bad weapons and drive dps crazy. Luckily that whip isn’t one of those.

If it was me and I wasn’t fighting runners I’d go with a FB mainhand. I’d also keep like a bag or two of other weapons for all occasions (1h and 2h’s). It’s the warriors life :). The whip was a great add; kudos for putting in the work.

[strongNpretty]

Infestation is ok in secondary?

[Snaggles]

My goals have always been:
1. Max aggro proc per weapon (more or less normalized now unless you have a SoD or epic)
2. Max dps for the combo
3. If possible, meet 1) and 2) with procs that actually benefit the fight. Stuns, slows, snares, Etc.

For the longest time infestation was much better than FB. It’s closer now. Here is the napkin dps math:

(MH damage x 2) + dmg bonus 11 (at 60) / delay

At 60
FB - 1.590
Infest - 1.61
Whip : 1.136

So all things considered the Infestation is a better MH at 60. At lower levels you the speed isn’t as ideal. At 28 you get 1 dmg bonus for the main hand and an extra 1 dmg every 3 levels. At 50 it’s 8; at 60 it’s 11.

At 50
FB - 1.454
Infest - 1.444
Whip : 1.0


Also keep in mind with two dot weapons once you pick a target you can’t dance between others if you are using mez to CC. Fast weapons will also generate more ripostes and kill you faster on enrage. Not a big deal but some thing to consider.

[strongNpretty]

Fascinating...… Consideration is under way....

[Naethyn]

Whip is good enough if you have a good enough haste. White damage matters, but haste matters more. If you have anything above 30% worn haste you'll probably be ok.

[strongNpretty]

Ty for the help gents.. That whip was mysterious to me, nobody ever talks about it haha..

[kjs86z]

Dain Axe + 41% worn haste = happy leveling warrior

[Zipity]

Naethyn what about chelaki tail from DN vs infestation from DN
9/19, several disease counters, 20hp DD and 450dmg 15 minute dot. Heh

[Naethyn]

I am not sure about disease counters vs poison counters, but I would assume they work the same aggro wise. Between the two weapons I 'd probably go with Chelaki Tail, because it is a slashing weapon (higher warrior skill cap) over the 1 less delay with Infestation. There comes a point, especially at high end, where fast weapons are not ideal as they trigger a repost more often. This is why red blade in my opinion is the best warrior primary aggro weapon.

[Zipity]

How do dot procs work is it aggro per tic or is it front loaded

[Naethyn]

Most proc aggro happens immediately. Procs with damage over time do raise aggro every tick, but since every proc weapon with a dot is low damage it is negligible, and the counter count itself which represents most of the aggro is completely front loaded. Procs with status effects that don't cause damage are also completely front loaded.

Trident of the Deep Sea is a good example. Slow + 20 damage a tick means it does add aggro every tick after the first if the dot lands. Also, all slows are equal in aggro no matter the percentage it is slowing. I do feel like spells that are outright resisted cause more total aggro, but I have nothing to back that up.

[elwing]

Several disease counter is useless if you can't cast rhe proc spell... Capped at 400 like the rest... No more 3counter proc for 900 hate...

[Zipity]

Most proc aggro happens immediately. Procs with damage over time do raise aggro every tick, but since every proc weapon with a dot is low damage it is negligible, and the counter count itself which represents most of the aggro is completely front loaded. Procs with status effects that don't cause damage are also completely front loaded.

Trident of the Deep Sea is a good example. Slow + 20 damage a tick means it does add aggro every tick after the first if the dot lands. Also, all slows are equal in aggro no matter the percentage it is slowing. I do feel like spells that are outright resisted cause more total aggro, but I have nothing to back that up.

Resist thing is an interesting theory would make dain axe probably #1 aggro weapon for a Vox tank hmmm.

[JackofSpade]

Take a look at https://wiki.project1999.com/Cracked_Claw_of_Zlandicar which has the proc https://wiki.project1999.com/Incapacitate . This is a very high aggro proc (equal to slow), because it has a -AC component.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Nevederia%27s_Horn has https://wiki.project1999.com/Suffocate which is a very low aggro proc, becuase it doesn't have the -AC component. While the ratio is good and high aggro, you are not going to be turning mobs with a proc that isn't slow, poison counters, or -AC.

Right, I know what the procs do, what I am asking is where you are getting your information that the lack of a -AC component in the nev horn proc makes it less than 400 hate? In other words, how do you know for certain that the -STR plus -AGI debuff combo does not generate 400 hate?

[JackofSpade]

Ty for the help gents.. That whip was mysterious to me, nobody ever talks about it haha..

Sorry to burst the bubble but nobody talks about it because it is very bad with the proc agro nerf =(

There is no DD component to the proc, so it is the same 400 hate as any other proc, but the white damage agro from the bad ratio is significantly worse than 10+ other easy to acquire options.

The sole purpose of this weapon would be to snare magic immune mobs.

[Naethyn]

Right, I know what the procs do, what I am asking is where you are getting your information that the lack of a -AC component in the nev horn proc makes it less than 400 hate? In other words, how do you know for certain that the -STR plus -AGI debuff combo does not generate 400 hate?

I have all of these weapons and I can confirm first hand that nev horn is terrible aggro. Have an enchanter cast the spell and watch the mob not turn.