Chllenging class/race that has rewards

[Ishio]

Hey y'all. So I started up playing again and was looking at my main, a 26 Druid and remembered how I wasn't having fun with her. Now I started looking at the wiki but I can't seem to choose a class that's challenging, fun, and rewarding. Then i looked at Iksars. That race alone is rewarding nd challenging as they are hated everywhere. So I narrowed my choices down. Necromancer, shaman, shadowknight, and monk.

Can anyone offer and advice or insight? Also did they bring in newbie armor?

[ohkaiby]

SK. The extra 68% xp penalty will be "challenging" on your patience. But if you manage to grind through it you'll be one of the only high level iksar sk's. You also get "Greenmist" as a final quest reward. Quite rewarding, I'd say.

If by "newbie" armor you mean curscale / leech husks, then yes.

[Deathrydar]

I have to agree with the above poster. Iksar Shadow Knight is insanely difficult! You can't really get anywhere, you have a horrible experience penalty and you are the only Shadow Knight that cannot wear plate armor.

Later on when you get some decent spells, Gather Shadows (self invisibility) and Feign Death....well, all I have to say is....God have mercy on every guard that ever attacked you when you were in your lower levels!!!

[Ishio]

Now is this race/class combo reeding? Am I sought after? And by newbie armor I mean like collect these random items to get a chest/arm/wrist item and eventually a weapon. Like a full set of armor that has like +1, +2 stats at places.

[baalzy]

Now is this race/class combo reeding? Am I sought after? And by newbie armor I mean like collect these random items to get a chest/arm/wrist item and eventually a weapon. Like a full set of armor that has like +1, +2 stats at places.

There is no 'newbie' quest armor like this.

You can get dreadscale which would be the Iksar SK equivalent of dark forged. A higher level could help you quest the equipment or else you can start collecting it in later levels.

Greenmist is also a super kickbutt Iksar SK only 1handed quest sword.

Also once the original planes get their revamp you'll likely be the only Iksar SK around most of the time so will be defaulted the Greenmist armor which drops in Fear.

Edit:

SKs are very popular in groups because they're great at holding agro. Not as useful for tanking in Raids but can be pullers/offtanks.

[Ishio]

What would 400pp get me as far as gear? What is my best bet for pushing the limits as a shadowknight?

[Harm]

The best thing about plate-wearing vs. Iksar is that the plate restriction effectively goes away in Velious with the quested and planar armors that don't have the race restriction. The bad thing is that Greenmist is pretty bad for an epic, the two handed normal epic is much much better, and I'm not sure how much faction work it'd take for an Iksar to get it, but I'd guess its a lot. In the end you should end up with slightly higher AC than other SKs, not that it will amount to much.

I still think Ogres are the best SK race with the frontal stun immunity, and the large size makes them even more challenging than normal-sized Iksar IMO, despite slightly better faction and slightly less of an XP penalty.

[Hobby]

Rangers, paladins, Sk's.


that's really all :/ everything else is fairly easy

[Swish]

The same challenge can be attributed to a troll SK, hefty penalty but with all the trappings of being able to slam (can still interrupt casters with a 2h wep) but you would still be able to wear the plate stuff.

All on personal preference really, but the challenge really is there...watch your friends out level you and try to stay calm :D

[Ishio]

What about risks? What are the risks of being a sk? You're all talking about leveling penelties but besides that what are the challenges of being a sk?

[ohkaiby]

What about risks? What are the risks of being a sk? You're all talking about leveling penelties but besides that what are the challenges of being a sk?

Faction, mostly. Sk's in general can't sell/bank/walk freely in most cities without faction work. Iksars can't bank/sell outside of their own city at all to start with.

The best thing about plate-wearing vs. Iksar is that the plate restriction effectively goes away in Velious with the quested and planar armors that don't have the race restriction. The bad thing is that Greenmist is pretty bad for an epic, the two handed normal epic is much much better, and I'm not sure how much faction work it'd take for an Iksar to get it, but I'd guess its a lot. In the end you should end up with slightly higher AC than other SKs, not that it will amount to much.

I still think Ogres are the best SK race with the frontal stun immunity, and the large size makes them even more challenging than normal-sized Iksar IMO, despite slightly better faction and slightly less of an XP penalty.

Actually you need Iksar faction to even get Greenmist, making Iksar the only real race that can get it w/out handing in annoying amounts of bone chips.

I'm actually of the opinion that if you want to compare Greenmist vs the Shadowknight Epic, Greenmist + shield might even be a better combo. Being able to bash to interrupt spellcasters is great, not to mention you'll have an extra 30 or so AC and comparable stats. Not to mention the proc is better. Shields: http://wiki.project1999.org/index.php/Special:ClassSlotEquip/Shadow_Knight/Secondary

[ohkaiby]

double post -_-

[john_savage1982]

No class is really "challenging." in the generic sense of the word. It depends on what you want to be challenging. Do you want your role in end-game content to be challenging? Do you want solo kills to be a challenge every time? Do you want your role in a group lvling up to be less button mashing over and over?

No matter which way you look at it, EQ Classic is not a very difficult game no matter what race/class combo you play.

[ereur]

Risks as an Iksar SK:

Universal hatred everywhere except Cabilis
Highest exp penalty achievable
Low solo ability
Wandering guards will murder you

[Ishio]

I'm looking for a challenging gameplay. I generally never have anyone to group with so I mostly play solo. If it's just faction that makes shadowknights hard then that's not what I'm looking for, YET if they are going to be uncommon even rare end game, that might be the challenge and reward I'm looking for. MIGHT be.

[Troy]

If you want the biggest challenge for solo play, roll a gnome warrior.

[Messianic]

I'm looking for a challenging gameplay. I generally never have anyone to group with so I mostly play solo. If it's just faction that makes shadowknights hard then that's not what I'm looking for, YET if they are going to be uncommon even rare end game, that might be the challenge and reward I'm looking for. MIGHT be.

Warrior is the most challenging in terms of gameplay.

Before I get laughed at, let me explain.

Warriors don't get invis. They don't get feign death. No hide/sneak (unless you're a halfling). No gate. No utility spells. If you're rich, you get clickies, but that's after a lot of /played time.

You're just a meat shield and you suck at soloing. Grouping is really the only viable leveling method.

SK's are boring to level because they take so friggin long, but fear kiting is actually decent exp. They also make great group tanks, but can also FD pull, heal themselves somewhat, jerk aggro with disease cloud and dots, and have a number of other utilities. You shouldn't ever die outside a serious group when you're trying to save the cleric if you're an SK. Paladin is harder in terms of gameplay than SK.

[Dantes]

Yup, Warriors are a challenge, even worse if you are evil and you aren't a twink. I went DE Warrior for a challenge. It's like being a Troll or Ogre without any of the benefits. Hated everywhere, no travel benefits, no utility. An entire half of Antonica was cut off for me because I could get through High Pass or Rivervale. Had to beg for invis or ports all the time. Can't bank in Faydwer, you get used to asking for food and water at Unrest or MM.

[YendorLootmonkey]

If you want the biggest challenge for solo play, roll a gnome warrior.

That's right. Try tanking shit when all you can see is its nutsack.

[Ishio]

You all are going me challenges but I'm not seeing any rewards except Iksar shadowknights being a rare class race combo.

[baalzy]

....

But then I noticed you were in Peace Pipe and it all made sense.

[loobusk]

Ranger, the reward: there is no reward.

[Ishio]

....

But then I noticed you were in Peace Pipe and it all made sense.

What does my main bein in peace pipe have to do with anything? I'm literally asking for advice on a hard race/class that has a great reward. Or a worthy reward end game, minus raiding since my college time limits me. Maybe I'm just not collecting my thoughts well enough.

[jrwriter]

My opinion be a palyn A paly hard to play and most rarest high lvl. Ever on

[Troy]

The reward for being a warrior is you are needed to tank raid mobs, the challenge is that up to that point SK's are way better at tanking - especially if you are not a twink.

[Harm]

The reward for being a warrior is you are needed to tank raid mobs, the challenge is that up to that point SK's are way better at tanking - especially if you are not a twink.

I agree with this. If you're talking reward at the end, warriors get to tank big mean bad guys, shadowknights get to wish they were doing more DPS. In my guild on live back in the day, on raids I didn't even get to tank trash, not until PoP. PoP was the first time when my snap aggro was found to be better for progression of the guild than a warrior's superior mitigation/avoidance but slow aggro. I'm not sure if knowing what we know now SKs will tank trash mobs in raids on P99 or not, but it didn't happen for me at all going through Velious to PoP raid content until the Plane of Tactics.

Raid tanking, even trash, is really a lot of fun. If the end reward you're looking for is that, then warrior is the way to go. Want more challenge? Go Iksar warrior, because while you'll have to wait for Velious for your tanking gear, in the end you'll have higher AC than anyone thanks to your Iksar bonus.

[Pyrocat]

Erudite Paladin / Shadowknight.

[notahipster]

I rolled this as my first Char on project 1999, because

*- they are an uncommon site outside of Gfay.
* one of 2 hybrid choices with Bass INT or WIS higher then 100.
(with no adds)
*like the looks.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
First 15 levels were hell.

i did about 8 damage, had 65 str 70 sta. had to fight blues and even died on them sometimes. was a poor tank in most situations. i trained 2hs cuz 1hs damage was laughable, and bowed in grps and healed. died 3 times on light
blue mobs.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
After Ward undead. Lvl 15

Better at tanking, but still prolly the 1hs damage of a low STR ranger.
I began to solo much better tho, i could take Red mobs but it would drain most of my life and mana, it became a little bit more rewarding.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
After Root: Lvl 22

Root changed my game play for good, i was able to Root mobs and bow them to 60% before root would break, then i would be able to have advantage in melee, whille expensive it lowered down time, increased damaged without taking any, and was realtively safer then open field melees

-------------------------------------------------------------------
By Level 30:

The paladin has begun to feel like a class, Root, Healing, Lay of Hands, Stun, and Bind, whille simple can produce phenomenal results.

I can solo when buffed in kitchicor at night mobs 10 levels higher then me with ghoulbane, and clarity.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
30-and beyond

Whille i belive at this point a pally can comfortably solo undead alone.
He still benefits greatly from grouping, a good side tank, or side healer.
Other then Rez and one DD spell, nothing is really added to their line of spells
after this point.

Tanking wise i belive the pally is better then a Shadowknight.
DPS wise i belive the pally is inargueably WORST. but that said
i still find Pallys to be funner / safer to travel / equally challenging to play
and i personally belive them to be the more diverse out of the two

Shadowknight / Paladin.

[Wildas]

you can't solo mobs 10 levels higher than you. especially as a barely equipped paladin.

[Rejuvenation]

You should try a bard. A bard has so many tools at his disposal that a skilled player can do some magnificent things if one is creative enough.

Learn to AOE kite, best risk Vs reward in game in terms of leveling speed, but if you aren't on the ball the entire time, you will die.

Charm, mez, and lull can make indoor soloing feasible, albeit very dangerous still and limited by mob level and mana.

You keep referring to risk and reward. This is largely going to be whatever you make it out to be. If you want risks, try unconventional tactics in dungeons for named mobs. I don't think banging on your keyboard as you watch your HP drop while dying to a blue con as a warrior is what you want, but sure that technically is a 'challenge.' You may want to pick a necro or enchanter and try solo dungeon crawling as well.

Rewards in EQ are generally items, character statistics (picking a race over another) and making new friends (social rewards). I guess you could also get a sense of accomplishment for killing allizewsaur as a level 30 Druid using only the magic dot line and kiting for an hour.

[Walabaego]

Risks of being an SK? Nobody likes you :( Some groups even go ''ehh...xp penalty...pass'' Just the penalty alone is quite a challenge, this game takes enough time as is.

[Knuckle]

I'm looking for a challenging gameplay. I generally never have anyone to group with so I mostly play solo. If it's just faction that makes shadowknights hard then that's not what I'm looking for, YET if they are going to be uncommon even rare end game, that might be the challenge and reward I'm looking for. MIGHT be.

Play a monk. Put effort into bandage wounds, it caps at 70% when you break a skill threshold(200 points?). You have lots of skills to master. If you can make it to higher levels, sit in fungus camp for years and karnors castle, get T staff + fungus tunic and now you have a very challenging solo class that can flop to just about any camp in the game.

[falkun]

Play a monk. Put effort into bandage wounds, it caps at 70% when you break a skill threshold(200 points?). You have lots of skills to master. If you can make it to higher levels, sit in fungus camp for years and karnors castle, get T staff + fungus tunic and now you have a very challenging solo class that can flop to just about any camp in the game.

And yet you will be one of the most common classes on the server. Enjoy being the John Smith of Norrath.

[Messianic]

And yet you will be one of the most common classes on the server. Enjoy being the John Smith of Norrath.

It's true, even on live everyone and their mom had a monk twink. It's kind of boring to enter KC or Seb and see three of your same class who literally look exactly like you.

Although, that's probably the case for a number of other classes, too...

[Ishio]

And yet you will be one of the most common classes on the server. Enjoy being the John Smith of Norrath.

That is not what i want. Im now stuck between necro and sk. I'm thinking necro is a good way to go yet if I decide to raid I'll be sol.

[Extunarian]

That is not what i want. Im now stuck between necro and sk. I'm thinking necro is a good way to go yet if I decide to raid I'll be sol.

If you want an uncommon and challenging class, you do not want to play an iksar necromancer. I have 3, none of them have any gear, and they all dinged 50 while I was asleep.

That's not to say they aren't one of the best class/race combos to enter the game...that's why they are so common. And any necro who doesn't want to be lazy can find TONS of things to do on raids that don't involve pumping the cleric. Healing, ghetto CC, DPS, etc.

If you are actually looking for the uncommon, challenging class with big rewards in the end-game, Iksar SK is the way to go. If you want a class that would in all likelihood be entertaining from 1-60, go Necro.

[Ishio]

Here's what I'm gathering so far.
Iksar SK:
Rewards: Unique race/class, can fear kite, unique armor quests.
Challenges: -68% penalty, no one wants to group with me, can't solo easily until fear kite, can't wear plate, not needed in raids due to low dps and terrible raid tanking (same as Paly)

Maybe I should look at other class race combos that aren't warrior. There just doesn't seem to be enough information on how a class plays throughout the level to warrant the right choice. I also don't like making alts. I just wanna choose one and be happy with it. Druids I choose for porting but I can't level her solo as I keep dying.

[Rejuvenation]

Don't discredit SK and Pally tanking in raids. There are many situations were they are preferred over a warrior, even in raids. SKs are the kings are the kings of snap agro in terms of the true tanks, which can be a huge help during certain encounters. The big fights will usually be given to warriors, but I know at least in Divinity we have some very well geared SKs and Pallies that are often raid tanks.

Iksar SKs also get an AC bonus to help with the fact that they can't wear most plate. It doesn't completely cancel out the effects of not being able to wear plate, but it diminishes a significant amount for it. Kunark also introduced a significant number of GREAT weapons for SKs, so your DPS won't be quite as bad as most people are used to in classic (but it still wont be good...). You will be limited in useful spells until you gain quite a few levels, but from 9 and on you'll have disease cloud, which will be your bread and butter.

[baalzy]

Wizards-
Pros: End game desirability on Raids, teleports for easy money
Cons: Aside from Teleports/Raids, nobody wants you. Figure out how to solo, buy some SoW pots or get some Jboots. Only way you're going to make 60 is if you do the work by yourself most of the time.

Enchanters-
Pros: Always wanted for groups, always wanted for raids, can go anywhere and not be killed by guards
Cons: Not as capable of soloing as other Int casters, but can still solo xp from 1-60 if they choose.

Necromancers-
Pros: Can solo 1-60 fast, super fast. Can farm like mad, is very useful in raids if played correctly. Useful to plug holes in many group setups as well
Cons: Not sought out for grouping with, there are also lots of them so competition for equipment.

Mages-
Pros: Great pets, can summon lots of equipment to help out others/themselves. Good groupability because they can nuke pretty well and use their pet to do damage so they always contribute to a fight. Due to evolving strategies they also come in handy when tackling certain raid mobs, COH is invaluable for raids and allows your party to pull off some pretty fun pulling stunts. Great farmers.
Cons: Like necros, a dime a dozen, don't gain as much power 50-60 as the other classes to.

Clerics-
Pros: best healers in the game, absolutely essential in raids and highly sought after for any party. Capable of making money pretty well 49+ by providing rezzes for tips. Capable of soloing to a decent level off undead if desired although not the prefered method of leveling.
Cons: Not much utility in their magic, no invis, no breathe water/levitate effects which leaves you dependent on clicky gear for these effects or other players to provide them. Many people find them boring.

Druid-
Pros: Teleports, power leveling, soloing ability. Tracking so they can hunt down nameds in wide open kunark zones. Serves well as spot healers in raids.
Cons: A dime per hundred, have been dealing with bugged spells for a while but most of those have been taken care of now. Will only be invited to a groups if all other avenues for healers have been exhausted. Fairly boring on raids, only a couple of duties they can really perform.

Shaman-
Pros: Decent soloers, gets better 34+, almost always desired in groups for their buffs/debuffs. Useful in raids for buffing/debuffing.
Cons: Every single race that can be a shaman has an exp penalty (barb is the lowest at 5%). Uhh, not really much besides that.

Warriors-
Pros: Raid tanks, nothing beats them. Hard to hold agro with in party setups, especially at lower levels, but still plenty in demand if played right. Can do great DPS if built that way, XP bonus.
Cons: Incredibly gear dependent, worst farming ability of any class, completely and utterly dependent on parties to gain exp unless twinked to the max.

Monks-
Pros: Amazing DPS, feign death and Mend to avoid death in most cases. Gets the ability to bind wounds up to 70% of their maximum health. Good damage avoidance. Desired on raids and in parties for DPS and pulling. Doesn't need a lot of gear to be effective, but become absolute beasts if geared well. best of the melee archetypes for soloing in most situations.
Cons:
20% Xp penalty... there are a million+1 of them.

Rogues-
Pros: Highest potential DPS in the game. Required to get into many Kunark dungeons. Great for corpse runs because of hide+sneak. Can pickpocket to steal money from mobs.
Cons: Super gear dependent like a warrior, also completely group dependent.

Shadowknights-
Pros: Amazing xp party tanks. Holds agro really well, can pull for raids, can solo well once leveled up enough.
Cons: Not really desired for raids, but can serve a purpose if there aren't enough warriors around or no monks by offtanking or pulling. 40% xp penalty

Paladins-
Pros: Good at xp tanking like a shadow knight, at really high levels spot heals as well as a druid, capable of soloing undead fairly well. Access to the only non-epic particle effect weapon in the game.
Cons: Also suffers from raid desirability, serve as lame DPS with backup heals. Also has the 40% xp penalty. No access to high-str starting races.

Bards-
Pros: Intricate class with potential to do many things. Capable of leveling quickly solo (while pissing people off). Fastest movespeed in the game and has track. Buffs melees and can help with mana regen.
Cons: 40% xp penalty, not as desirable in raids, melee damage is extremely lacking. May lead to repetitive stress syndrome

Rangers-
Pros: Can snare, decent melee ability, best tracking ability, gets access to a lot of utility spells. Not many of them, making ranger specific equipment cheap to obtain and lending to little competition for raid gear. Will often be invited to raids just so loot doesn't rot because the only other raid level ranger already has everything. Very versitile if handled correctly
Best class for eating Death Touch since their absense provides least negative impact on the raid composition.
Cons: Not good enough at anything to be picked for a party unless no other options are available. Very misunderstood class but the 40% exp penalty combined with their inability to stand out in any one role means you'll have a hard time getting into groups.

[Dirtnap]

I think rangers get way to much unwarranted hate. They bring a lot to a group, and yet everyone makes sure to avoid them.

[Shadey]

I think rangers get way to much unwarranted hate. They bring a lot to a group, and yet everyone makes sure to avoid them.

Totally agree with you. Tracking mobs for group. Doing good dps (yes they do good dps no matter what anyone says). Even tanking in group at times when needed. Are they the highest dps no are they the best tank no. But they bring a lot of versatility to the group. :)

oh and if no druid/shaman they also have SOW to give the group. :)

[Thoughtseize]

I just wanna choose one and be happy with it. Druids I choose for porting but I can't level her solo as I keep dying.

You want a challenge but are quitting a druid because you cannot solo with one? Here's where Scooby would say, "Ruh ro"

[Ishio]

You want a challenge but are quitting a druid because you cannot solo with one? Here's where Scooby would say, "Ruh ro"

Oops let me clarify. I die because I don't pay attention. I don't pay attention because it's just root rot or kite. There's no real challenge. I'm also quitting a Druid because I thought of down the line and see how many Druids there already are and think, great another John smith.

[Ishio]

I've literally fallen asleep at the keyboard playing a Druid.

[Ishio]

Baalzy thank you for that post. That was most helpful. I will be using this to decide what class I will go with. Thank you all for the help!

[bizzum]

I've literally fallen asleep at the keyboard playing a Druid.

You might not succeed as a tank then if you're falling alseep at the keyboard. If you're soloing shouldn't you be keeping busy enough to at least keep your eyes open? Groups are not going to like you passing out :(

[Dirtnap]

On my ranger i have tanked and main healed groups around level 12-15. Not the best, but still managed to get some exp with no deaths in both groups.

[baalzy]

On my ranger i have tanked and main healed groups around level 12-15. Not the best, but still managed to get some exp with no deaths in both groups.

The world changes at higher levels. HP on tanks will be significantly higher then yours as well as their AC. At the same time, mobs are hitting a lot harder. A ranger will be able to 'hold agro' but they'll take more damage and won't live long enough to receive Cheal (and wouldn't have enough hitpoints to make CHeal worthwhile most of the time). If mobs actually ran the way they did in classic (at higher %'s, so they'd run away at full speed and be a real danger of causing massive trains) then rangers would be desired to handle snares.

It's just that they don't bring enough to the table to take on the xp penalty in a party unless there truly is no other option.

[Shadey]

The world changes at higher levels. HP on tanks will be significantly higher then yours as well as their AC. At the same time, mobs are hitting a lot harder. A ranger will be able to 'hold agro' but they'll take more damage and won't live long enough to receive Cheal (and wouldn't have enough hitpoints to make CHeal worthwhile most of the time). If mobs actually ran the way they did in classic (at higher %'s, so they'd run away at full speed and be a real danger of causing massive trains) then rangers would be desired to handle snares.

It's just that they don't bring enough to the table to take on the xp penalty in a party unless there truly is no other option.

They bring plenty to the table. Its close minded people that obsessed what they "think" is the "perfect group" that think they do not. They do good dps and they add value to the group. The xp penalty is not shared with the group its theirs alone. LOL Each group member gets a slice of xp and depending on their class/race they get more or less then others.

[Ishio]

You might not succeed as a tank then if you're falling alseep at the keyboard. If you're soloing shouldn't you be keeping busy enough to at least keep your eyes open? Groups are not going to like you passing out :(

I fall asleep due to boredom. Root, DoT, DoT, DD, sit, reDoT sit, snare, melee at 13% if mana's ok. I've done it with Druids and shamans, which is why I crossed them off. Necro's follow the same path but they can fear kite and we can take on reds at 12+. Also I'd be a lowsy tank as I'm always piss poor to keep up gear. :)

[Dirtnap]

My point was that Ranger's can fill a spot and adapt to situations, when you either don't have, or through deaths lose someone in a group. People here gave rangers the stigma of being useless, and so many people won't invite them at all, so no one can prove they are a solid class.

[Rejuvenation]

Bards-
Pros: Intricate class with potential to do many things. Capable of leveling quickly solo (while pissing people off). Fastest movespeed in the game and has track. Buffs melees and can help with mana regen.
Cons: 40% xp penalty, not as desirable in raids, melee damage is extremely lacking. May lead to repetitive stress syndrome


Bards are actually extremely valuable in raids. They can pump the shit out of resists and almost trivialize some encounters.

The world changes at higher levels. HP on tanks will be significantly higher then yours as well as their AC. At the same time, mobs are hitting a lot harder. A ranger will be able to 'hold agro' but they'll take more damage and won't live long enough to receive Cheal (and wouldn't have enough hitpoints to make CHeal worthwhile most of the time). If mobs actually ran the way they did in classic (at higher %'s, so they'd run away at full speed and be a real danger of causing massive trains) then rangers would be desired to handle snares.

It's just that they don't bring enough to the table to take on the xp penalty in a party unless there truly is no other option.

This really is over-exaggerated on this server. Rangers can tank most groupable camps just fine. I have had a ranger tank the West Wing of HS for hours with no issues and never ran into mana problems. This was an assumption that people came up with from classic, and there are just so few rangers on this server at higher levels that people havn't realized how "ungimp" they are in reality.

[Shadey]

Bards are actually extremely valuable in raids. They can pump the shit out of resists and almost trivialize some encounters.

Along with mana song for the heal/dps groups. $$$

[Troy]

This really is over-exaggerated on this server. Rangers can tank most groupable camps just fine. I have had a ranger tank the West Wing of HS for hours with no issues and never ran into mana problems. This was an assumption that people came up with from classic, and there are just so few rangers on this server at higher levels that people havn't realized how "ungimp" they are in reality.

This. My 40 ranger tanks just fine in normal exp groups. And, especially in a big open zone like OT, I can hold aggro 100% of the time and take ZERO damage whilst stopping to med once an hour by just casting snare 2-3 times per mob and walking in a little circle and shooting my bow for good measure. Once I hit 45 to use Tolan's clickies I can do it without stopping ever :p

[Harm]

One thing about Paladins that wasn't stated in their favor: They get rez. If you can't find a cleric, then your group should have a paladin, or you can't die. Even as a shadowknight, there were many times when I had a druid main healer and insisted on a cleric or paladin as the 6th group member because of the rez factor, and often a paladin was LFG when a cleric was not.

[gnomishfirework]

They bring plenty to the table. Its close minded people that obsessed what they "think" is the "perfect group" that think they do not. They do good dps and they add value to the group. The xp penalty is not shared with the group its theirs alone. LOL Each group member gets a slice of xp and depending on their class/race they get more or less then others.

That same person said bards aren't as desirable in raids. You can disregard anything they say.

[bizzum]

A side note, but about tanks that arn't tanks, there were apparently 3 groups in Seb last night each with their own Shaman tank because there were next to no tanks online. I've had to tank at least 4 days this week late late night because of it.

You make and Iksar SK and play between 4AM and 9AM EVER and I gaurantee nobody will be complaining about your EXP pentaly in their group. Well, they might, but they'll still invite you.

[Shadey]

exp penalty is for the char with that penalty only. Not the entire group.

[bizzum]

exp penalty is for the char with that penalty only. Not the entire group.

Wrong. You should read how exp works (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=24405&highlight=experience+penalty) in this great guide.

It does actaully take into account the penalty for the whole group, as does a large level gap.

[Shadey]

Wrong. You should read how exp works (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=24405&highlight=experience+penalty) in this great guide.

It does actaully take into account the penalty for the whole group, as does a large level gap.

Well played eq1 for over 7 years from beta. NO ONE I knew worried about someone elses exp penalty ever. Not once had I heard someone worry about that. So I do not get the worrying going on here nor do I think that is accurate.

Now what we did consider is how well someone played their char. That was No. 1. And then what classes best benefits the group we had made up so far.

Also the worrying of what class is better then what class or what class isn't worth inviting to group. ALL classes have value when played well. There is no "perfect" group just great groups that have great players behind the chars. So play the class that you enjoy first and worry about what others think of your choice last.

[bizzum]

Well played eq1 for over 7 years from beta. NO ONE I knew worried about someone elses exp penalty ever. Not once had I heard someone worry about that. So I do not get the worrying going on here nor do I think that is accurate.

Now what we did consider is how well someone played their char. That was No. 1. And then what classes best benefits the group we had made up so far.

Oh I completely agree with you on picking out somebody to join your group, but it is true that it does lower your overall exp. I never bitched about it, and maybe didn't even know about it for the longest time when i played on live. Hey, if I need a tank and there is only a SK or Pally I'm still sending them a tell.

[Grizzled]

Heh do not go iksar sk.This sucks so hardcore. Im sticking with it, but then again there is only one Serpator!

Currently Lvl 48 Iksar Shadow Knight

[Harm]

Well played eq1 for over 7 years from beta. NO ONE I knew worried about someone elses exp penalty ever. Not once had I heard someone worry about that. So I do not get the worrying going on here nor do I think that is accurate.

Now what we did consider is how well someone played their char. That was No. 1. And then what classes best benefits the group we had made up so far.

Also the worrying of what class is better then what class or what class isn't worth inviting to group. ALL classes have value when played well. There is no "perfect" group just great groups that have great players behind the chars. So play the class that you enjoy first and worry about what others think of your choice last.

It was accurate and it was that way. The difference is that no one knew it was the case... XP just seemed to differ and no one pinned it on the hybrids at the time. Verant/Sony revealed it to us when they normalized XP, likely in preparation for the AA system, since once they realized they had plans for alternate advancement via AAs it would have been very harsh to keep the XP penalty in the game. I do think some of the advanced players were starting to figure it out earlier than that, but by that time those players also had been level 60 for a very long time and didn't care.

If there's one thing you can learn from WoW its that people will try to reduce someone down to a number if they can... Gearscore, need I say more? Yes back in the day lacking numbers people looked at the important stuff, XP per hour thanks to a good group. That should still be the case, but if everyone has a higher level of skill now than then due to greater knowledge of how EQ actually works, they might go with the pure classes given a choice.

On this server everyone knows about the penalty from the start, and that's the problem if you've got a penalty and care about racing to 60. In reality if you stick with one character it'll go away because at 60 no one cares and those Iksar SKs you've been avoiding will become your best friend for farming those gear drops.

[Messianic]

Heh do not go iksar sk.This sucks so hardcore. Im sticking with it, but then again there is only one Serpator!

Currently Lvl 48 Iksar Shadow Knight

I remember when you were in your 20s when I was doing LoIO bloodgills 45-51...you've leveled really fast bro =P

[Kryptyde]

I think the OP was looking for a 'challenging' class, not an inconvenient one.

To me this is playing a class that isnt simple and easy to play to their fullest ability. Lets be real, none of the classes are rocket science ... it is a game afterall. I find that the classes that are often not played to their fullest potential are the more dynamic ones that have many different tools at their disposal.

Among melees this would include rangers and bards. These are both classes where a good player can really excel compared with the poor or lazy player.

Rangers are terribly misunderstood and usually not played properly. A good ranger should be chain single pulling (outdoors) with thier bows, patch healing, ghetto mezzing adds (snare, root), tossing their little buffs in should there not be a better buff available in the group, tracking for named and snagging them, ripping rogue mobs off the healers, and generally adding much resiliency to a group.

Jack of all trades master of none never looks good on paper, but the ideal stuff on paper never works in game anyhow. This is why hybrids are so often underrated. In real play you often need that pally rez or that ranger offtank/ghetto mez or those emergency non-healer heals that keep your cleric/tank/chanter alive for that critical second.

My recommendation would be play a dynamic class and strive to utilize it to the maximum potential. To me this is the best sort of challenge and I think what you are going for.

[Kassel]

Play a ranger and wait till luclin for your rewards =D

[tingling]

I played a bard on the live servers they are probobly the most hardest class to play to there full cabability... in the long run any asshole can sit there and twist 3 songs but it takes a good player to do everything a bard can do...

by the time i was 65 i was:
-Pulling like a pro, bards are amazing pullers with lull. I would pull hit the mob a few times throw some buffs up and then run and grab the next mob if i was early i would park it with mezz if i timed it right well then great i would repeat...

-Buffing the group

-pre slowing and even slowing mobs if shaman/chanter was missing bards get a 37% slow on P1999 which isn't bad and it snares

-mezzing between 3 and 4 mobs if shit hit the fan(if i had to mezz 4 i would have to take a hit once in a while) bards mezz is very low agro compared to chanter from what i remember..

-hell at 65 i could even tank in group situations with time gear...

-amazing solo capability( ae kite, chant kite and charm kiting i did 49 to 53 in one very long sitting)

bards can do it all but you really have to know what abilities songs to use and when...

[baalzy]

Well played eq1 for over 7 years from beta. NO ONE I knew worried about someone elses exp penalty ever. Not once had I heard someone worry about that. So I do not get the worrying going on here nor do I think that is accurate.

Now what we did consider is how well someone played their char. That was No. 1. And then what classes best benefits the group we had made up so far.

Also the worrying of what class is better then what class or what class isn't worth inviting to group. ALL classes have value when played well. There is no "perfect" group just great groups that have great players behind the chars. So play the class that you enjoy first and worry about what others think of your choice last.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/editorial/011401_EQ_Producers_letter.html

It's long, but it explains fully how xp worked until shortly after Velious. The short of it is this: Race/Class penalties were shared with the group, if they weren't then if a group of friends were all leveling together and one of them was a Troll SK, he'd eventually get so far behind in levels that he couldn't contribute to the group unless he xp'd independently. For this reason, the penalties were designed to be spread out amongst the group.

Not as desirable != not desirable, desirability does not also denote usefulness. Just because something is useful doesn't mean you want a whole ton of them.

If you have two bards on a trak raid, it's not likely you'd bring another if it means you're losing a strong DPS. Where with wizards, if you could bring 10 against trak;you would, as long as you had a couple tanks and enough healers.

[Shadey]

It was accurate and it was that way. The difference is that no one knew it was the case... XP just seemed to differ and no one pinned it on the hybrids at the time. Verant/Sony revealed it to us when they normalized XP, likely in preparation for the AA system, since once they realized they had plans for alternate advancement via AAs it would have been very harsh to keep the XP penalty in the game. I do think some of the advanced players were starting to figure it out earlier than that, but by that time those players also had been level 60 for a very long time and didn't care.

If there's one thing you can learn from WoW its that people will try to reduce someone down to a number if they can... Gearscore, need I say more? Yes back in the day lacking numbers people looked at the important stuff, XP per hour thanks to a good group. That should still be the case, but if everyone has a higher level of skill now than then due to greater knowledge of how EQ actually works, they might go with the pure classes given a choice.

On this server everyone knows about the penalty from the start, and that's the problem if you've got a penalty and care about racing to 60. In reality if you stick with one character it'll go away because at 60 no one cares and those Iksar SKs you've been avoiding will become your best friend for farming those gear drops.

Well I still don't believe it. If anyone reading this are one of the people that care about this drivel then I'm glad my iksar necro won't be grouping with you. :D

My advice is group with anyone class/race if they are a good player. Not because their class/race doesn't have an exp penalty. Just have FUN!

And NOTHING can of real value be learned for WoW. WoW caused the downfall of modern MMO's by making things ez mode and others following suit.

[Messianic]

Play a ranger and wait till luclin for your rewards =D

I dunno, bigger mana pool + animal fear and other spells in Velious was pretty hot.

[Messianic]

I've literally fallen asleep at the keyboard playing a Druid.

FYI, you didn't get to the level of quad kiting. That's a good amount of fun and very effective. You can also get a lot of housework done in the 6-8 min between quads...

[Akim]

Rangers, paladins, Sk's

And as to what they bring? well basically speaking;
Sk's have amazing aggro and FD.
paladins have decent heals, stuns, rez
rangers have great pulling skills, sow/track/snare; and good dps

[Harm]

And NOTHING can of real value be learned for WoW. WoW caused the downfall of modern MMO's by making things ez mode and others following suit.

WoW is a great example of what happens when you appeal to the lowest common denominator, and plenty can be learned from that, primarily what not to do on a server like this. :D

[Shadey]

WoW is a great example of what happens when you appeal to the lowest common denominator, and plenty can be learned from that, primarily what not to do on a server like this. :D

Well I can give you that one. You can learn what not to do. LOL

[Ishio]

Thanks for the continuity of responses. I just want to say it's helping me out a ton! Also as far a WoW, we can't sit here and compare it to EQ. They are two different breeds. Though I will agree and say WoW spawned the era of MMO everything and it being so easy. Even EQ2 copied it a bit. Yet WoW was aimed at the casual community and those who didnt have the time to get to raid in EQ yet wanted to. I don't like wow but I also won't deny that what it aimed for did good to the MMO community. It opens the doors and eyes to others about MmO's and brings few of them to our world.

[Shadey]

Can't agree with WoW doing anything good for MMO's. EQ1 and 2 along with others made theirs ezmode to copy wow and try to win back the instant gratification folks that went there.

[Ishio]

It was aimed at the casual player? That's what WoW did for MMO's.

[notahipster]

i never played wow. (casually observed it played a hand full of times)

is it really that bad?

Whats the differences beetween the two. Pro's cons?

Anything advertised as a past-time Mr.T enjoys immediately loses its marketing credibility / target audience solidarity with me.

i played warcraft one and two.

[Ishio]

Save that pro con war for oot or another thread. Thatll start a war

[loobusk]

Why does everyone hate notahipster? Is it because of how his avatar looks?

[Shadey]

It was aimed at the instant gratification players that wanted EXP while they slept (which was implemented in some way shape or form). LOL

[Ishio]

It was aimed at the instant gratification players that wanted EXP while they slept (which was implemented in some way shape or form). LOL

QFT, except for the first few months when the game came out.

[Nagash]

Though I will agree and say WoW spawned the era of MMO

Heretic!!! Burn the witches!!! :P

[Nagash]

i never played wow. (casually observed it played a hand full of times)

is it really that bad?

Whats the differences beetween the two. Pro's cons?

Anything advertised as a past-time Mr.T enjoys immediately loses its marketing credibility / target audience solidarity with me.

i played warcraft one and two.

I'll try to make it short so not to derail the thread (although it might be too late as I've just written this) but in a nutshell:
- graphics are more cartoony in WoW
- WoW has completely removed the competition between players due to instanced dungeons. Bad thing for me as it means you will not encounter anyone except your group members in a dungeon
- Tradeskills made supa easy and top gear available from them (not the best one but enough to get you to the high end
- You need to kill more mobs to level (if you want to level via farming but that's usually not the quickest way) but the fights are much much shorter (a few seconds)
- Main way to level in WoW is done via questing
- The company running it doesn't give a flippin' damn about its player base (even less than Sony/Verant...), just their bank account. Good thing is I doubt their database with their customers credit cards details will ever be hacked
- Travels in WoW are very easy with a griphon master (who can send you for nothing to one of his peer) under every stone
- More (much much more PvP)
- Less distinction between the classes (you got plenty of classes who can tank / heal / dps as effectively as each other)

There you go, tried to summarize this for you without flaming any game (hard for me to do).

Nagash/Petitpas

[Harm]

WoW really is a fun game, don't get us wrong. There's nothing actually wrong with it, and they obviously did a lot right or it wouldn't be so popular. I'm mostly mad that they didn't take PvP seriously for far too long, because in theory the game had awesome PvP potential, and WoW PvP was why I stuck with the game as long as I did (6 years? Longer than I played EQ by a year). And its still better than EQ1 is on Live now.

WoW is like checkers. Its fun. Now imagine that checkers was popularized to the point that millions of people were playing it all over the world. Pretty cool right? But you happen to know about a game called chess. And you quickly get tired of checkers. You ask people if they want to play some chess, but all they want to do is play checkers. And that's the frustration you see on these forums with WoW, we're all tired of checkers and want to play some chess.

[Ishio]

So far the way I am seeing it is I will be making an Iksar Necromancer. This is just for a little bit so I can have something to farm with. I don't really like my Druid even though the two classes solo with the same method. I feel though that farming with the Necro will be a lot better and efficient, than the Druid and I can push myself even further. I was told I can kite and fear kite yellow's at 24-26 yet when I try that I get the NPC to half health before I OOM by just refreshing DoT's and snare. That usually entails me to die. Otherwise it's dark blues I solo, then I fall asleep due to repetition.

I do like the idea of the Shadowknight, but I'd like to have him set up a little bit better before I embark on this long interesting journey. The route of a bard sounds fascinating as well, yet I'm going to wait until I go home, I'm currently in another state with just my Apple laptop until Aug, before I try a bard, due to some of the key binding being awkward to twist with.

And yet, I keep going back and forth whether this is a good route to do. I mean technically the necro is a new and unique route to me, the play style will be different and the challenges are what I can make of them as far as where I can solo and what level con I can do, what quests I can finish. I don't know, it's such a hard decision because I really hate wasting time in one character to find out it doesn't suite me or to find out it's kind of useless to others.

[falkun]

The big bonus a necro has over a druid is that necros are much more efficient at soloing IN DUNGEONS as well as outside. Dungeons generally have better ZEMs as well as better loot. If you get bored "soloing on a necro the same way i solo on a druid", try soloing blues in a dungeon. Should liven things up a bit.

[Ishio]

The big bonus a necro has over a druid is that necros are much more efficient at soloing IN DUNGEONS as well as outside. Dungeons generally have better ZEMs as well as better loot. If you get bored "soloing on a necro the same way i solo on a druid", try soloing blues in a dungeon. Should liven things up a bit.

Want to hear something funny? I don't know what an EQ dungeon is. I've been playing the game for years on and off since 2000, yet I have never been in a dungeon. I've done EC, HHK, HHP, zones like those, which are outside. What are some inside zones?

[Lamprey]

EQ dungeons are fun. They're big, and they're scary - all contested, lots of trains, wiping deep inside leads to a hard cr. All that makes them fun though.

Some good dungeons to check out, in increasing lvl order:
- Blackburrow (lvls 5-15; in qeynos hills)
- Befallen (lvls 12-22(?); in west commonlands)
- Najena (lvls 15-25; in lavastorm)
- Splitpaw (lvls 25-30(?); way the heck out there in the karanas)
- Unrest (lvls 30-40; in lfay)
- Guk (lvls 40+, in innothule)
- Sol Ro (lvls 40+, in lavastorm)
- Permafrost (lvls 40+, in everfrost)

That's fro QA classic. Kunark has tons of good dungeons too, but outside zones there are great for levelling - good camp spots, lots of pulls - so fewer people go in them.

[falkun]

Lamprey beat me to it. If you've never done a dungeon crawl in classic EQ, you are really missing out on good loot, good exp, and a whole different experience to the open fields of EQ.