Best Puller Class?

[Keebz]

Is monk the end all be all for high end dungeon / raid pulling?

I've heard Shadow Knights have some tricky moves, and from what I've seen, they seem pretty underrated.

Bards and to a lesser extent Rangers can do some neat stuff outdoors, of course.

I've discovered I like pulling and am trying to plan my next moves...

[Philistine]

I'm with you in that I unexpectedly found that i liked pulling
It's really active, you learn the heck out of the zone, and it seems like groups really appreciate a good puller.

Outdoors I feel like my ranger out-pulls most (certainly not all) monks I group with, but indoors definitely not so much :-/ I do think rangers are the ultimate outdoor pullers though, at least in the xp groups I've done (ie, I haven't raided or done high end stuff).

[gherron]

Assuming we’re talking green, go with monk. My main is a 50 ranger. I absolutely LOVED pulling outdoors and indoors (trickier but feasible).

That being said, go with monk because you’ll get a reduced exp penalty and people also won’t shun you from groups because you’re a hybrid.

[Snaggles]

Grind/farm groups and raids are certainly different. Not being able to lull targets in tougher zones drastically reduces puller options. That said, pulling with a crit fail on a lull works just fine...people just have to be ready for a little chaos. Outdoors harmony is a 100% success rate without a crit fail component. FD is the only way to effectively reset and split unmezzable/non-lullable targets.

There are a number of ways to break a normal 1-group camp with every set of classes. The default is with a monk but using skill and communication it’s not the only one.

Once a room is broken anyone can pull. Generally the tank will stay in-camp for repops and peeling from squishies. If a knight possibly to get a few med ticks.

Tl;Dr - A monk has a great pulling tool kit. They also don’t have to med so there isn’t a trade-off. If you want to pull just communicate that as a preference and play the class you want. Sk’s do have a great ad hoc toolkit as well. At 60 they have two FD’s and three if you have BE greaves.

[Keebz]

Assuming we’re talking green...

Yes, let's talk green. 1) because I'm playing on green 2) because this is the default mode of p99 going forward 3) because all the existing discussion assumes multiple years of farmed kunark/velious.

...Outdoors harmony is a 100% success rate without a crit fail component. FD is the only way to effectively reset and split unmezzable/non-lullable targets...

Tl;Dr - A monk has a great pulling tool kit. They also don’t have to med so there isn’t a trade-off. If you want to pull just communicate that as a preference and play the class you want. Sk’s do have a great ad hoc toolkit as well. At 60 they have two FD’s and three if you have BE greaves.

This is getting at the heart of it.

To hone in further:
1) Can bards (and rangers even) pull in the high end outdoor zones of the future? Plane of Growth, etc. Bards/Rangers have been pulling fear/hate just fine in classic.

2) To what extent are sk's and monks interchangeable for high end zones/raids throughout the expansions? Kunark era? Velious era? Right now (classic) they more or less are, as far as I can tell (feel free to disagree). Looking into kunark, aside from BE greaves and CoS, SK's look like they may fall behind in the pulling department slightly. In velious, Death Peace seems like a huge benefit.

Would love to hear from some elite puller Monks/SKs/Bards

[Baler]

SK is an underrated tagger/puller.
Troll is the best race if you plan on being a tagger/puller SK
Ogre is best if you plan to be a tank SK

[Naethyn]

Monk

[Snaggles]

I’m not elite but...

1.) yes so long as you don’t drag a mob right through another harmony and snare trivialize outdoor zone pulls. Bard lull is as I understand similar to cleric/pally/ench lull and can crit resist. It’s indoor zone usable as well.

2.) sk’s are fine but won’t make the primary pull team on raids (unless you are band of misfits). Great taggers as mentioned and can prob work if you are short on monks. In a pure min-max perspective front stun immunity for ogres helps get those FD’s off of you have a bunch of mobs on you. It’s not instant though so timing with casters is harder.

[Jimjam]

Rangers have the advantage of root and snare so can pull several mobs to group with staggered arrival times. You can also root a mob on a pathing node to ‘recruit’ more pulls to the group. Getting clean singles is a great strategy but sometimes that is overkill.

[Baler]

iksar monk > human monk > Troll SK > ogre sk > Bard > Paladin > Ranger / Enchanter

[Philistine]

Rangers have the advantage of root and snare so can pull several mobs to group with staggered arrival times. You can also root a mob on a pathing node to ‘recruit’ more pulls to the group. Getting clean singles is a great strategy but sometimes that is overkill.

Exactly! This, combined with tracking and bind sight makes rangers really really good pullers outdoors.

[reznor_]

Rangers are really great, if they are played well. Most classes are, really. But I've grouped with some great rangers on green who can pull 3-5 mobs and we only get 1-2 at a time

[Bardp1999]

Bards Monks and SKs all have their bright spots and dark spots. Bards can harmony and mez which is fantastic, SKs can snare then FD for some cool tricky pulls (and can take hits better), and monks have a more reliable FD but struggle sometimes with mobs pathing back in shitty ways. But the truth is in 90% of the groups you are in if you are playing any of these classes is youre going to be pulling, so play whatever tickles your fancy. I love monks but they have like literally 2 buttons to press.

Rangers in Kunark are going to feel the burn of social shunning possible the hardest - I suggest you stay away

[Keebz]

Thanks for the replies everyone

Bards Monks and SKs all have their bright spots and dark spots. Bards can harmony and mez which is fantastic, SKs can snare then FD for some cool tricky pulls (and can take hits better), and monks have a more reliable FD but struggle sometimes with mobs pathing back in shitty ways. But the truth is in 90% of the groups you are in if you are playing any of these classes is youre going to be pulling, so play whatever tickles your fancy. I love monks but they have like literally 2 buttons to press.


Does this only apply to grouping or high end raiding as well? I am curious how SKs do in Kunark pre Death Peace. Like can an SK pull in VP? Seb? Chardok?


Rangers in Kunark are going to feel the burn of social shunning possible the hardest - I suggest you stay away

I'd imagine they can help on tracking and FTEing the outdoor dragons? Though bards may be better here.

But yea, I'm maining ranger now and loving pulling the planes, but the plan was always to mulligan to something else when Kunark hits. Managed to get a Warrior almost 50, but find sitting in camp extremely boring, so am looking at my options.

[Wallicker]

The list of optimum classes to be pulling will change depending on the encounter and what you are trying to do. What surprises me here is no one has mentioned necro who is arguably the best, most versatile And well-rounded puller in EQ.

[Philistine]

The list of optimum classes to be pulling will change depending on the encounter and what you are trying to do. What surprises me here is no one has mentioned necro who is arguably the best, most versatile And well-rounded puller in EQ.

An interesting point! Snare + FD, root + FD, screaming terror + FD. Root, snare.

Any other tricks up their sleeves? Always looking for new stuff to do with my necro!

[YendorLootmonkey]

Rangers in Kunark are going to feel the burn of social shunning possible the hardest - I suggest you stay away

Your guild will use and abuse you to track/pull hunter/forager, and then when you are LFG in Sebilis .... crickets.

Classic is all about getting to level 50 on your ranger main and then PLing your guildmates' alts so you can guilt them into inviting you into XP groups for 51-60 in Kunark. :D

[DeathsSilkyMist]

An interesting point! Snare + FD, root + FD, screaming terror + FD. Root, snare.

Any other tricks up their sleeves? Always looking for new stuff to do with my necro!

Necros are the only class that can FD and double Divine Aura. They cast harmshield first, start running, then use Shiny brass idol click to instantly refresh Divine Aura when the first one wears off. This means they can do Pulling through dangerous areas twice as long and then FD. This strategy tends to be used more in raiding, but it is a big perk for necro pulling.

EDIT: Shamans can do this too with FD ring, Idol, and Earring of frozen skull, but necros can do this with just idol.

Necros could tripple DA with earring if you can live during the cast time

[Snaggles]

Necros are the only class that can FD and double Divine Aura. They cast harmshield first, start running, then use Shiny brass idol click to instantly refresh Divine Aura when the first one wears off. This means they can do Pulling through dangerous areas twice as long and then FD. This strategy tends to be used more in raiding, but it is a big perk for necro pulling.

EDIT: Shamans can do this too with FD ring, Idol, and Earring of frozen skull, but necros can do this with just idol.

Necros could tripple DA with earring if you can live during the cast time

Clerics get two castable DA’s in Classic. Bards and paladins can sing/cast DA in Kunark. Necros are very versatile but not the only classes who can pull off these odd invulnerable pulls.

[Arvan]

If you can land snare on it then sk is the best puller (esp with VS pants) if you cannot then monk with HEBs

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Clerics get two castable DA’s in Classic. Bards and paladins can sing/cast DA in Kunark. Necros are very versatile but not the only classes who can pull off these odd invulnerable pulls.

I specifically said Necros can double DA and FD:) I am aware other double DA classes exist, and can do pulls. Any class that can wear https://wiki.project1999.com/Earring_of_the_Frozen_Skull can do double DA pulls as well.

Necros are unique because they can also FD after a double DA pull. Shamans can do this if they have the items, but it takes quite a while to get a Shaman up to speed. A Necro just needs a level 20 spell and an idol, which costs less than 1k. Shadowknights would be able to do this too if they ever got Harmshield on P99.

[Philistine]

Necros are the only class that can FD and double Divine Aura. They cast harmshield first, start running, then use Shiny brass idol click to instantly refresh Divine Aura when the first one wears off. This means they can do Pulling through dangerous areas twice as long and then FD. This strategy tends to be used more in raiding, but it is a big perk for necro pulling.

EDIT: Shamans can do this too with FD ring, Idol, and Earring of frozen skull, but necros can do this with just idol.

Necros could tripple DA with earring if you can live during the cast time

How interesting! I hadn't considered using DA as a planned part of a pull. Is the idea that one could agro something, DA through a nasty pack of adds, get some distance on the pack and pull off a snare + FD? As I'm saying/typing it, it seems like that must be it? A great idea that I definitely hadn't considered...

[DeathsSilkyMist]

How interesting! I hadn't considered using DA as a planned part of a pull. Is the idea that one could agro something, DA through a nasty pack of adds, get some distance on the pack and pull off a snare + FD? As I'm saying/typing it, it seems like that must be it? A great idea that I definitely hadn't considered...

That is the general idea, yes. However, with a large train of monsters behind you, it can be difficult to cast more than one spell before the train hits you and kills you.

These kinds of pulls are easier with two people. The Necro will pull the monsters and train them to a specific location, using DA to keep themselves alive.

The secondary puller will be waiting at the specific location, and they will tag the desired monster out of the train. They bring the monster away from where the train will path back.

When the desired monster has been safely grabbed and it is away from the train's path, the Necro can zone or FD the train.

I haven't seen a lot of examples of people doing these kinds of pulls solo, but I am sure it can be done with enough practice, at least in certain areas. Items like https://wiki.project1999.com/Scepter_of_the_Forlorn could help quickly snare the target so you have as much time as possible to cast FD before the train hits you.

[kjs86z]

Is monk the end all be all for high end dungeon / raid pulling?



Monks do most of the heavy lifting but necros also have lots of tricks in their kit.

If you want to be part of a pull team in the raid scene, just decide if you want to be a melee or a caster and pick one of the two.

[Keebz]

Monks do most of the heavy lifting but necros also have lots of tricks in their kit.

If you want to be part of a pull team in the raid scene, just decide if you want to be a melee or a caster and pick one of the two.

So is that a 'no' for SK being a viable raid pulling class?

[kjs86z]

So is that a 'no' for SK being a viable raid pulling class?

Pretty much.

SK is the least useful raid class imo.

[Twochain]

Yes, monks are best pullers for raids. But for group/dungeon content, such as Sebilis, i almost prefer pulling on my enchanter. Especially anything outside of the jug/king camp.

[Danth]

So is that a 'no' for SK being a viable raid pulling class?

Shadow Knight is perfectly capable of doing the job well. However too many players on P1999 seriously believe hybrids are nigh useless and can't do anything at all, so in many guilds the SK's won't even be allowed the chance. As with so many things in these online RPG's, public perception quite often trumps actual reality. Play a Shadow Knight if you like being an armored melee with the ability to feign split if you need to. Do not play one if you want pulling to be your primary role on P1999. If the latter's your goal it's easier to make a Monk than try to fight against the hivemind.

Danth

[Hisamori]

I had a 65 monk and ranger live, have a 59 monk on blue and a 54 necro. I honestly think any class can pull well with the player who knows how to use the tools, but holding player skill equal, some classes are more well-suited for pulling in different situations than others.

Rangers are kings for pulling outdoors but this limitation doesn't translate as well to indoor dungeons. Karnor's I'd always take a ranger pulling. In PoP, I always brought my ranger for pulling since most of the xp planes were outdoors; if Bastion of Thunder needed pulling, I'd bring my lower enchanter. Harmony, archery AA's, tracking, just made pulling in PoDisease and such so easy.

For solo xping, necro, sk, or monk are all equally suited for pulling though I think necro or sk is slightly stronger since for soloing, pace doesn't matter as much but having lots of tools available does. Necro probably wins here with access to snare, root, mez, undead lull, harmshield, and FD. I prefer monk, though, because I like the way monk mechanics work even if I think necro or sk is stronger. For chain pulling in a group indoors I definitely prefer monk because of how their FD works.

For raiding pulling, this is mostly about coordination than classes. As a monk, it is a bit obnoxious to bring an extra 2 or 3 bags worth of rip sticks, pumice stones/golem wands and such but they can do the job.

I saw this video recently of Wickid, an SK from DB, pulling Vilefang without Chetari faction and my hat goes off to him for creativity using CoS, dots, FD, to train VF up out of the pits through the Chetari: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO2ls0zK47g

[Philistine]

That is the general idea, yes. However, with a large train of monsters behind you, it can be difficult to cast more than one spell before the train hits you and kills you.

These kinds of pulls are easier with two people. The Necro will pull the monsters and train them to a specific location, using DA to keep themselves alive.

The secondary puller will be waiting at the specific location, and they will tag the desired monster out of the train. They bring the monster away from where the train will path back.

When the desired monster has been safely grabbed and it is away from the train's path, the Necro can zone or FD the train.

I haven't seen a lot of examples of people doing these kinds of pulls solo, but I am sure it can be done with enough practice, at least in certain areas. Items like https://wiki.project1999.com/Scepter_of_the_Forlorn could help quickly snare the target so you have as much time as possible to cast FD before the train hits you.

How interesting! Thank you for the insight!

[Keebz]

I saw this video recently of Wickid, an SK from DB, pulling Vilefang without Chetari faction and my hat goes off to him for creativity using CoS, dots, FD, to train VF up out of the pits through the Chetari: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO2ls0zK47g

I too have seen Wickid's videos. This is what made me think SKs are potentially legit. I've also heard of good tricks with Pets but that would apply to Necros as well.