Everquest magic system

[Izmael]

What do you guys think is generally broken in the EQ's spell system?

What is really good? How does it compare to some other major magic systems in other games? (I never played any).

What would you change if you could? I'm talking fundamental stuff, not "omg charm is too reliable" or "omg omg pvp resists don't suit my play style"

[Dookky]

How dare you speak in such a manner...

[xdrcfrx]

One thing i find interesting is that there's no spell, item, clickie, ability, or anything (that I know of, at least) that allows the player to silence npc spellcasters. Related I find it interesting how few enemies make use of silence, also. Maybe the original dev's thought that it would be too OP and would allow players to trivialize too much content? Would be cool to have a silence line of spells, though.

[GinnasP99]

I wish necro's had an animate dead line of spells, making the victim serve you as a pet for a short time in a "zombified" state.

[Trexller]

In later content theres an AA which enables a necro to reanimate all of the dead npc corpses in his general area to attack his target.

Was pretty fun to leave 20 npc corpses on the ground and summon them all against mobs in PoP etc

[Zuranthium]

What would you change if you could? I'm talking fundamental stuff, not "omg charm is too reliable" or "omg omg pvp resists don't suit my play style"

That's a strange question, because those things you just wrote ARE pretty fundamental.

But anyway, I would definitely change the way buffs work in the game, making most of them short duration and requiring active combat usage. I would make playing a Cleric-type role much more interesting, with spells that have many different effects, such as chance to block physical attacks, small damage packet reduction, large damage packet reduction, reversals of single hits, anti-knockdown/knockback/stun, condition/hex removal, heals that become more effective with specific timings.

That same thing applies to debuffs too, especially Root/Snare. Those movement halting abilities are way too OP in EQ and are extra problematic for PvP with the way EQ is setup, because they either destroy characters who have no resist gear or they just do nothing at all because they always get resisted. The resist system of EQ in general is dumb, I would either remove it entirely or modify it to cause reduction in duration/effectiveness of spells on a sliding scale, rather than this all-or-nothing system.

In general I would lower the cast times of many spells, the way things operate at the lower levels in EQ is pretty good, but cast times keep increasing as you go up in levels and you get stuck with things like 7 second Sunstrikes, which is way too slow for how the game should operate with active combat. A few abilities can be like that but it shouldn't be the norm.

[Dokuton]

I wish the pet classes in this game had a larger variety or pet models. I miss EQOA's pet progression. Mages, Enchanters and Necromancers got a much different looking pet at almost every level up and their capstone pets were very unique looking.

[Trexller]

I wish the pet classes in this game had a larger variety or pet models. I miss EQOA's pet progression. Mages, Enchanters and Necromancers got a much different looking pet at almost every level up and their capstone pets were very unique looking.

mages have the monster summoning line of spells that randomly picks a spawned mob in the zone and makes a pet with that model graphic.

a few times i was able to summon a Vulak pet or other named ToV dragon pet in a raid at HoT exit, good times as players flee for zone out or shit their pants then curse me

in places like timorous deep or WC, you can summon up a land-fish pet. Just good fun.

[Dokuton]

mages have the monster summoning line of spells that randomly picks a spawned mob in the zone and makes a pet with that model graphic.

a few times i was able to summon a Vulak pet or other named ToV dragon pet in a raid at HoT exit, good times as players flee for zone out or shit their pants then curse me

in places like timorous deep or WC, you can summon up a land-fish pet. Just good fun.

That is pretty awesome lol

[unleashedd]

GCD and having to use a clicky to skip this "mechanic" bothers me - seems like an exploit

interrupt mechanic caused by movement momentum (not combat push interrupt) bothers me - i let go of that fucking arrow ages ago, why is this fool taking 2 and a half more steps? this isnt a driving game

[Jorgam]

In EQ2 I had a Fury which was a druid/wizard type class and there was a spell called Hibernation that I really loved using. It was a very large group heal that had a delay. You would cast it so many seconds before engaging and then it would trigger a huge heal after a few seconds. It would be awesome to see spells like that in EQ.

[plzrelax]

interrupt mechanic caused by movement momentum (not combat push interrupt) bothers me - i let go of that fucking arrow ages ago, why is this fool taking 2 and a half more steps? this isnt a driving game

If you tap turn left or right after you stop before casting that can help stop those interrupts

[ScottBerta]

Chanter should be broken into two classes. One is charm/haste based, other is slow/clarity based.

I also think should be another class that main job is to give haste spells to spell casters and also maybe provide a % reduction on saving mana on every spell cast. Basically like the ultimate utility to spell casters. Almost like the opposite of shaman to melees.

[zula]

An issue with magic in EQ is how little it is affected by gear and skill levels. With a melee class, you can feel your character becoming a little stronger as you get better armor and weapons and increase your skill caps, but this progression is significantly less for a caster. With the exception mage / necro focus items, nothing you can do gear-wise can make your spells more powerful in EQ (with the exception of charisma affecting charm and pacify).

The best you can do is get clickies that give you access to new abilities or mana free casts, increase your mana cap (which doesn't usually impact your throughput if you are never hitting full mana), or get health / AC to increase your survivability. In Luclin and PoP they addressed this with both AAs and item focus effects that could make spells cost less mana, do more damage / healing, last longer, etc.

[Baler]

I roll a D20...

I put on my wizard robe and wizard hat.

[Scoojitsu]

I roll a D20...

I put on my wizard robe and wizard hat.

:D

[ibanezjs100]

interrupt mechanic caused by movement momentum (not combat push interrupt) bothers me - i let go of that fucking arrow ages ago, why is this fool taking 2 and a half more steps? this isnt a driving game

You can avoid this by turning after you lift your movement key. The way I cast after running is:
stop running
slightly turn
cast

The turn causes your movement end

[Exard3k]

Well spells get better with increasing level. This game is mostly about leveling up.

[Crede]

Well spells get better with increasing level. This game is mostly about leveling up.

Yea but gearing casters in the end game is pretty boring. Just giving you more mana to cast the same spells you already have isn’t that exciting. Would have been cool to see more spells resulting from items. Same concept as the mage epic, and/or maybe cooler no drop spells off Bigger mobs like vulak, aow, etc.

[Jimjam]

The biggest problems with the magic system are:

1) no wide brimmed pointy hat model.

2) no wizened little human face skin with full white beard.

3) melee should get a mana bar, which is max 0 and only increased by items and can’t be regenerated without FT or buffs. It would serve no purpose (other than being a valid recipient for mana taps/drain).

Edit: I actually have a serious one. I don’t like how npcs circumvent the stun duration on many spells. Wizards have a few stuns that should last a decent while, but the spells are largely useless as npcs seem to ignore stun durations over a couple of seconds.

[Dolalin]

Fundamentally, what's broken?

There was originally a plan in EQ for spells to work differently in the planes. But because of the way the client and server handle spells (as static spdat files, with each spell getting an unchanging hardcoded reference that maps to a constant, unchanging spell effect), that wasn't possible.

Anyone who knows D&D knows spells are supposed to work differently (often unpredictably) in the alter planes.

If I were redesigning the EQ spell system, I'd have the client load its spell definitions from the server each time it zones.

[baloen]

A major positive about the EQ magic system that is absent from large majority of games that have "spells" is the idea of the spellbook and having to memorize the spells. I can have tool bars and hot keys, but I'm still bound to my number of memorization slots. It also makes combat abilities and other skills very distinct from spells. In EQ2, combat abilities just felt like Melee spells or spells just felt like caster abilities, however you want to look at it.

It's a small detail, but it majorly effects the way you play the game. Depending on your class, you have spells you'd never take off your memorized spells, and other spells that no matter how useful, you'd just memorize it when you need it, then remove it because you'll never need it on short notice.

Any game with similar mechanics is always worth a look in my opinion.

[Muggens]

Agree that Wiz shoulda get faster nukes and longer stun durations, and that spellbooks are great and that there should be more beards

[Jimjam]

Agree that Wiz shoulda get faster nukes and longer stun durations, and that spellbooks are great and that there should be more beards

They do get longer stun durations, it’s just the problem is mobs have a work around. Mobs won’t be effected by stun for more than 3 seconds, even though some wizard stuns are meant to last more than twice that. Sad. Of course, if a wizard mob stuns a player that player is out of action for a long time.

Does anyone know when the mob stun duration limit was implemented? Was it as a balance response to a specific spell (whirl til you hurl?), or was it always there and the spell effect designer wasn’t aware of it? Or was it intended design that players get stunned for a longer time than npcs from day 1?

It would be great if the tishan/markar stuns would last their full duration on mobs.

[Jibartik]

There was originally a plan in EQ for spells to work differently in the planes. But because of the way the client and server handle spells (as static spdat files, with each spell getting an unchanging hardcoded reference that maps to a constant, unchanging spell effect), that wasn't possible.

I remember when the patch note for the planes came and it said that spells would behave differently! Me and my friends thought heal would do damage and stuff like that but nope, was so disappointed.

Was so excited about classes just totally becoming NEW classes when in certain zones.

Would've been interesting to see a ranger basically be a wizard because for some reason harmony does a DD in sky haha while a wizard plays as a healer because for some reason DD's heal people. Idk, I thought that would be cool as a kid, but now saying it out loud sounds pretty dumb. But idk.

...also necromancers should be able to have an army of skeletons!