Can a Paladin (or any class without Sneak or Hide/Invis) still...

[Loadsamoney]

...kill guards in High Keep, tank their reputation, and still be able to sell/bank there?

Two NPC's I'm looking at in particular, Bank Clerk Jaylin and A Clerk, are supposedly on Qeynos Citizens faction and not High Keep faction, and killing High Keep guards doesn't hurt this specific faction, so even if I become KoS to High Keep guards and citizens, these two should still do business with me, right?

High Keep Guards are corrupt, and I plan to wage war against them, the Freeport Militia, and the Corrupt Qeynos Guards (fully supporting the Knights of Truth) for roleplaying purposes. But I need to make sure this is actually a viable solo leveling/money spot as a Pally before I start killing my reputation there (and make sure it won't hurt my ability to do SoulFire later).

[Videri]

Yep, Tarn Visilin, I believe, in the little library room is indiff to all.

[Jimjam]

Every class can invis, it’s just some do it through click/potion.

Also note you can still use a bank while kos. Either camera round the corner or just take a beating during your bank meeting.

[Tethler]

The highkeep vendors will never become kos. They will bottom out at dubious I believe. But I am most definitely kos to the banker after killing guards for several levels. If you wedge into the corner (where Bosec stops in this path route) you can bank without aggro. Or lull the banker and bank at max melee range.

As someone said above. Tarn Visilin will always trade with you.

[Loadsamoney]

The highkeep vendors will never become kos. They will bottom out at dubious I believe. But I am most definitely kos to the banker after killing guards for several levels. If you wedge into the corner (where Bosec stops in this path route) you can bank without aggro. Or lull the banker and bank at max melee range.

As someone said above. Tarn Visilin will always trade with you.

I guess I'd better not mess with High Keep faction then, as I need to stay indifferent to the Banker for a quest turn-in, in relation to SoulFire.

I hate giving up the High Keep guards because they're such good, consistent money. It's hard to match the money you can make off of them at 25-35. I don't know where else I could go for those levels that would generate the same plat (Sisters in OoT are always camped).

[Loadsamoney]

However, that does raise another question. I was planning on going straight to Paineel after hitting 18-19 in Lfay farming Nybright Sisters, killing the guards there. But I've already tanked my Heretics faction, it can't get any worse.

So how do I get a key and get inside there now for fighting guards?

[loramin]

But I've already tanked my Heretics faction, it can't get any worse.

So how do I get a key and get inside there now for fighting guards?

Just kill in the Warrens for awhile (but don't turn in the Kobold Molars in Erudin).

[Loadsamoney]

Just kill in the Warrens for awhile (but don't turn in the Kobold Molars in Erudin).

How many kills will it take? Do the Kobolds really only give 1 point per kill?

[loramin]

How many kills will it take? Do the Kobolds really only give 1 point per kill?

Excellent question that I do not know the answer to ... except that it will definitely take "a lot" :)

Beyond that, hopefully someone more knowledgeable can chime in.

[Loadsamoney]

Excellent question that I do not know the answer to ... except that it will definitely take "a lot" :)

Beyond that, hopefully someone more knowledgeable can chime in.

Well, when/if I get my key, it better not be something temporary or that gets erased at some point once I start killing Paineel Guards.

[Baler]

Expect to kill 700-2000 kobolds in the warrens.

I've done it on three characters, and your starting faction with heretics is what determines the number of kills.

I can say with little doudbt that each warren kobold is +1 heretic faction.
That said. Get a druid, bard, mage, wiz to AE packs of them. It can be done in 2-3 hours.

It's actually a service that can be sold.

[Loadsamoney]

Expect to kill 700-2000 kobolds in the warrens.

I've done it on three characters, and your starting faction with heretics is what determines the number of kills.

I can say with little doudbt that each warren kobold is +1 heretic faction.
That said. Get a druid, bard, mage, wiz to AE packs of them. It can be done in 2-3 hours.

It's actually a service that can be sold.

Is it worthwhile to have a Paineel key beyond just grinding on the Guards there? Is it useful to have one for guildies, for instance?

I don't mind grinding it out, even if it take a good 2,000 kills, as I'll make some decent coin from doing it by just killing around the entrance, keeping the kill speed high and the risk low at the expense of leveling. Once I hit Amiable I'll likely be 12-3, and then I can immediately move to Lfay Sisters until 18-19, then come back to Paineel and be ready for the guards.

It will take 2,000+ then though, because I grinded from 7 to 10 just killing Elial Brook, and I maxed out my Deepwater Knights faction in doing so. But it also casued me to hit rock bottom with the Heretics.

[loramin]

Is it worthwhile to have a Paineel key beyond just grinding on the Guards there? Is it useful to have one for guildies, for instance?

I think the main reason people get the key isn't so they can kill guards; it's so they can purchase: http://wiki.project1999.com/Hole_Key. So in the long run, if you ever want to XP or farm loot in The Hole, having a Paineel key will have value ... but otherwise it likely won't (and even if it will, it won't be for many levels).

[Loadsamoney]

I think the main reason people get the key isn't so they can kill guards; it's so they can purchase: http://wiki.project1999.com/Hole_Key. So in the long run, if you ever want to XP or farm loot in The Hole, having a Paineel key will have value ... but otherwise it likely won't.

That has huge value, actually, because I need to go to The Hole later as part of the Paladin Epic!

https://wiki.project1999.com/Keeper_of_the_Tombs

So I should just consider getting these two keys as part of the grind for my Epic then.

[loramin]

That has huge value, actually, because I need to go to The Hole later as part of the Paladin Epic!

https://wiki.project1999.com/Keeper_of_the_Tombs

So I should just consider getting these two keys as part of the grind for my Epic then.

Well, to be fair there are other ways to get into The Hole (eg. Ant's Potion and glitching through the door) ... but personally I hate trying to wiggle through that thing ... especially when you have a group with you, and they all manage to wiggle through just fine, so you feel like the idiot for not being able to ... so if nothing else you'll save on Ant Potions, and if you're like me you'll save a little sanity also.

[Loadsamoney]

Well, to be fair there are other ways to get into The Hole (eg. Ant's Potion and glitching through the door) ... but personally I hate trying to wiggle through that thing ... especially when you have a group with you, and they all manage to wiggle through just fine, so you feel like the idiot for not being able to ... so if nothing else you'll save on Ant Potions, and if you're like me you'll save a little sanity also.

Good enough reason for me to still do it, to feel like I got in legitimately and didn't cheese my way in.

I hope the guards in Paineel count as Undead. My Ghoulbane will want a workout by then.

[aspomwell]

Good enough reason for me to still do it, to feel like I got in legitimately and didn't cheese my way in.

I hope the guards in Paineel count as Undead. My Ghoulbane will want a workout by then.

The guards in Paineel do indeed count as undead. :)

[Jimjam]

I guess I'd better not mess with High Keep faction then, as I need to stay indifferent to the Banker for a quest turn-in, in relation to SoulFire.

I hate giving up the High Keep guards because they're such good, consistent money. It's hard to match the money you can make off of them at 25-35. I don't know where else I could go for those levels that would generate the same plat (Sisters in OoT are always camped).

You can open the trade window round the corner even if kos then quaff an invis pot while trade window open to set faction to indiff.

[Loadsamoney]

You can open the trade window round the corner even if kos then quaff an invis pot while trade window open to set faction to indiff.

Well, High Keep Guards probably aren't a good solo grind spot for Paladins anyway. I should be fighting Undead whenever I can, especially since I have a Ghoulbane at my command.

So Paineel guards are both Undead and give huge coin with their swords and shields. Double win for me once I'm able to get in there.

[Loadsamoney]

I was actually told that killing the Guards in Paineel doesn't result in a faction hit to anything, so I could kill them forever and they'd never go KoS to me. Is this true?

[loramin]

I was actually told that killing the Guards in Paineel doesn't result in a faction hit to anything, so I could kill them forever and they'd never go KoS to me. Is this true?

The wiki seems to think they're a mix: the classic ones ...

http://wiki.project1999.com/Guard_Buldoral
http://wiki.project1999.com/Guard_Lehlufa

don't give faction, while the ones with the new skeleton model do:

http://wiki.project1999.com/Guard_Heridion
http://wiki.project1999.com/Guard_Korlack

However, I didn't even think we had new skeleton models here, so I'm suspicious. It might just be that the "newbie guards" of Paineel give faction, while the rest of them don't?

[aspomwell]

I've never killed the noobie guards, but none of the guards I've killed after the elevator gave faction, and I've probably killed at least 80% of them at least once...

They are social, so guards will help other guards being attacked (as long as they're not green) but none of the other NPCs will jump in. There's a couple ghosts over by the necro guild that may join in, I never really camped those guys so I'm not sure.

[Jimjam]

I think i killed all the guards in the city recently, no faction hits anywhere. The ones in the newbie yard take 3% damage from a wizard nuke so I guess circa 32k hp. A lot of work for a kite shield.

[aaezil]

You can still do soulfire turn in at dubious just get a friend to invis you when you are in the trade window prior to clicking trade

[Loadsamoney]

Still scowling. I haven't even put a dent into Heretic faction yet. I'm trying to mix in some Smithy/Foodmaster kills, as they give 10 faction each.

I'm hoping to hit Amiable by 17, then all the guards in Paineel except for two will be blue to me and easy to fight. By then I'll have Parry as well. The latest I want to be in Paineel by is 20, as that's when I'll get Double Attack and can proc with Ghoulbane.

I don't think the 16's will get me high enough to transition to the 23-25's though. They'll likely green out before then, and I'll still be too weak to take on the 23+ guards.

[Loadsamoney]

STILL Scowling. Spent 15 and 16 grinding nothing but Foodmaster and Smithy in the Warrens, haven't even broke through to Threatening. This is one hell of a grind, apparently.

[kaev]

Well, to be fair there are other ways to get into The Hole (eg. Ant's Potion and glitching through the door) ... but personally I hate trying to wiggle through that thing ... especially when you have a group with you, and they all manage to wiggle through just fine, so you feel like the idiot for not being able to ... so if nothing else you'll save on Ant Potions, and if you're like me you'll save a little sanity also.

Or you could, you know, befriend a Rogue (or be in a guild that has Rogue class members). But don't do this unless you're one of those rare outcasts who wish to play EQ in a highly unpopular cooperative play-style using the loathsome grouping mechanic.

[Loadsamoney]

Or you could, you know, befriend a Rogue (or be in a guild that has Rogue class members). But don't do this unless you're one of those rare outcasts who wish to play EQ in a highly unpopular cooperative play-style using the loathsome grouping mechanic.

Is 100 enough to pick the door into The Hole? Bards would be an option too then?

I will grind this out though, one way or another. Just incase I have to go into the Hole alone and hunt that Keeper at level 60.

[Loadsamoney]

Finally broke through to Threatening. Threatening is about halfway to Amiable right? 1,100 points from here to Amiable I think (if Amiable is indeed only +50).

[Tethler]

Regarding the Hole key. Only one person needs to have it in the party. The rock swings open and everyone can swim in.

[Loadsamoney]

Regarding the Hole key. Only one person needs to have it in the party. The rock swings open and everyone can swim in.

I'm going to get it on my future Ranger too, as there's an Epic-related drop in The Hole for Rangers as well. I won't be sacking Heretic faction on my Ranger like I did on my Pally by killing Elial Brook (a necessary evil to max out Deepwater Knights faction), so the grind shouldn't be as bad.

Dubious now.

[Fammaden]

Most of the time you can find a keyed person or rogue to let you in, and the hole is far more popular now than ever before.

[Immok]

You can turn in the molars doing the same invis trick to get the faction moving a little faster (if you haven't been already).

[Immok]

Is 100 enough to pick the door into The Hole? Bards would be an option too then?

I will grind this out though, one way or another. Just incase I have to go into the Hole alone and hunt that Keeper at level 60.

100 skill is not enough to pick the door to the Hole.

http://wiki.project1999.com/Pick_Lock

[Philistine]

How many kills will it take? Do the Kobolds really only give 1 point per kill?

I got my key on my Wood Elf ranger (who started at scowling but I hadn't otherwise gotten any negative faction hits) at level 19-21ish and it took me aboit 40 hours of playtime. I was mostly in there solo, but there were a couple of hours where I got to join a group murdering most of the zone for faction.

[Loadsamoney]

YES! The long-awaited breakthrough!

https://i.imgur.com/ASFZqdJ.png

[loramin]

YES! The long-awaited breakthrough!

https://i.imgur.com/ASFZqdJ.png

Congratulations!

If you're on Mac or Linux I could give you the command to count how many faction hits (in your log file) it took, if you're curious. On Windows I'm sure there's a way too, I just don't know the command line command off the top of my head (you might just be able to open it in a text editor, do CTRL+F for Find, and then have that tell you).

[Snaggles]

It’s all about drop xfering food/drink. You can sell in HK with one vendor or bank if kos.

[Loadsamoney]

This place is a little more camped than I was expecting, but I guess I can't be surprised. Nearly 10pp a Guard, there's serious bank to be made here.

[Loadsamoney]

Jeez, this place is incredible for a Paladin. Afk-friendly mobs, all undead, so Ghoulbane and my nukes are absolutely shredding them. I've hit a small lull in the leveling speed because the only two mobs still on the low end of blue to me are the ones before the first gate, but the one inside the Shadowknight guild is yellow and the one at the entrance is white, so it's still too strong for me. But maybe with one more level (24 at the moment) I can start camping that one instead.

Then, looking deeper into the map, there's a bunch of whites and yellows just through the second gate, in the two rooms flanking it.And north of that is a room with four red guards spaced out relatively well (only have to fight 2 at a time), with four greens on the other side, all with bronze swords and shields. I may be able to get into my 40's just hunting in this zone alone, and I've been here since 19. And I might have enough coin saved up for a Book of Scale by then.

This was well worth the faction grind.

[MaCtastic]

I just did this on my paladin. Just use your fist and punch every mob, run to one end of zone and auto attack/riposte all 100~ at a time. Won't take very long at this rate solo.

[Loadsamoney]

If I choose to wait to do Sir Lucan myself instead of trying to get someone to kill him for me, at what level should I safely be able to solo him as a Paladin?

[Loadsamoney]

Well, I think I've hit that point in my leveling career where the soloing is going to become a much tougher endeavor. I'm 37 now, the 20ish guards in Paineel no longer give me any usable experience, but the 30ish ones are still a bit too strong for me. Undercon is becoming a thing now.

I'm taking two levels away from Paineel to get my new spell in Thurgadin, trying to hit 39 in Crystal Caverns on the side, so I can come back to Paineel at 39 with all new spells, but I'm still a bit worried. The only single 35ish guard has a 24 minute respawn timer, and even fighting two of these 35ish guards at once is a threat to me now, but that's the only other reasonable pull in Paineel now, at the Palace.

Ghoulbane was carving these guys up before, but I guess the posh days of smooth sailing are over now.

[Snaggles]

No, you just need a better weapon. The Ghoulbane was crazy in classic. Even solid for a 1h for a bit into 30. Ratio wise it’s garbage though. Get a 2h that’s .75 or better and use a 1h/shield for certain fights and maybe tanking full group content.

I dinged 40 in unrest. Gnome robots in SolA to 45. Sol B dogs and Grobb guards to 54. Mediocre gear until I got a reaver in low 40’s. Highkeep guards can take you to 45 with nobles and misc npcs further.

It won’t get slow until 50’s but at that point nobody is going to offer much sympathy. Even grinding a megatwink melee won’t be “fast”. Untwinked it will take a while. Enjoy the journey.

Note: Soloing Lucan is prob doable with better gear than me. He’s high MR and while doesn’t summon roots don’t stick long at 60. He’s got a lot of hit points to chew through. Just duo him.

[Danth]

You're getting to the level where you can start on stuff like wan ghoul knights in Lower guk. It's possible some of the lower-level opponents in Tower of Frozen Shadow might be within range as well. You definitely want to stick to undead as much as you can; the Ghoulbane is rather obsolescent on "Blue" against living opponents given the large number of high-ratio weapons available. Paladin solo should remain tolerable into the mid/upper 40's. Past 50 it's very slow, too slow for me to personally tolerate although some other folks can.

Danth

[Loadsamoney]

No, you just need a better weapon. The Ghoulbane was crazy in classic. Even solid for a 1h for a bit into 30. Ratio wise it’s garbage though. Get a 2h that’s .75 or better and use a 1h/shield for certain fights and maybe tanking full group content.

I dinged 40 in unrest. Gnome robots in SolA to 45. Sol B dogs and Grobb guards to 54. Mediocre gear until I got a reaver in low 40’s. Highkeep guards can take you to 45 with nobles and misc npcs further.

It won’t get slow until 50’s but at that point nobody is going to offer much sympathy. Even grinding a megatwink melee won’t be “fast”. Untwinked it will take a while. Enjoy the journey.

Note: Soloing Lucan is prob doable with better gear than me. He’s high MR and while doesn’t summon roots don’t stick long at 60. He’s got a lot of hit points to chew through. Just duo him.

A 0.43ish weapon with a 160 undead nuke proc should still be beating a 0.59 weapon with no proc against undead.

All of my weapons at the moment:

Ghoulbane: 15/34 (Dismiss Undead proc, Level 20)
Sword of the Morning: 16/27 (Tishan's Clash proc, Level 50)
Guardian's Mace: 14/24
SoulFire: 2h 23/45

I have not been able to find someone willing to sell me a Baton of Faith, and my 2hb is at 0 anyway.

My shield is a Sarnak Battle Shield.

[Snaggles]

A 0.43ish weapon with a 160 undead nuke proc should still be beating a 0.59 weapon with no proc against undead.

All of my weapons at the moment:

Ghoulbane: 15/34 (Dismiss Undead proc, Level 20)
Sword of the Morning: 16/27 (Tishan's Clash proc, Level 50)
Guardian's Mace: 14/24
SoulFire: 2h 23/45

I have not been able to find someone willing to sell me a Baton of Faith, and my 2hb is at 0 anyway.

My shield is a Sarnak Battle Shield.

Well yea if it procs. You posed a problem, I provided an answer :). Kill faster, heal less, level quicker.

There are quite a few .75+ weapons available For 100-500p. Vindication, baton of faith, iceflame, any plain-Jane velium 2h 30/40 and more. Iceflame, velium lance or Curved Dragonbone Spear levels up piecing for the Narandi (the GOAT pally droppable), a 2hs levels your skill to get a Reaver (2nd place GOAT droppable). The SotM is more consistent even against undead. Neither keep up with a good 2h.

I’d keep the SotM as it’s a solid tank weapon to 60. Sell the ghoulbane (can get 700p quick) and get a 2h. Pallies are one of the lowest dps classes (tho way better after the knight patch), dont hamstring yourself more than needed.

None of your gear matters like weapon and haste for leveling. Regen is the king until about 45/50 but few options for a rational price tag. If getting a nice 2h means wearing banded and Derv rings so be it.

[Loadsamoney]

Well yea if it procs. You posed a problem, I provided an answer :). Kill faster, heal less, level quicker.

There are quite a few .75+ weapons available For 100-500p. Vindication, baton of faith, iceflame, any plain-Jane velium 2h 30/40 and more. Iceflame, velium lance or Curved Dragonbone Spear levels up piecing for the Narandi (the GOAT pally droppable), a 2hs levels your skill to get a Reaver (2nd place GOAT droppable). The SotM is more consistent even against undead. Neither keep up with a good 2h.

I’d keep the SotM as it’s a solid tank weapon to 60. Sell the ghoulbane (can get 700p quick) and get a 2h. Pallies are one of the lowest dps classes (tho way better after the knight patch), dont hamstring yourself more than needed.

None of your gear matters like weapon and haste for leveling. Regen is the king until about 45/50 but few options for a rational price tag. If getting a nice 2h means wearing banded and Derv rings so be it.

I have plenty of plat now, nearly 10k, and I can afford a decent 2her, but I'm just tacky and looking for the cheap efficient options for each class. I.E Baton of Faith for Pally, Deathbringer's Rod for SK, and Springwood Stave for Ranger, as they all sport good ratios for 2hers and are dirt cheap.

I tried shopping for a Jade Inlaid Crescent Axe, as I could share it between all three classes, but as is consistent with a lot of other items I'm trying to buy, nobody will sell me one. Same with Doljonijiarnimorinar.

[Snaggles]

When I bought a Reaver my grind speed and ease was noticeable and it was over an iceflame proccing for 65dd at the time.

Once the pally is in the 50’s if you aren’t burning plat on expensive items you will have enough for a woodsman and then can do the same with the ranger. Trying to gear two toons with a 30’s main is very tough.

I’m not trying to brow-beat you on this. I’m just saying if you buy a reaver now, level to 50’something on it and sell it you “rented a reaver”. It’s not something you memmed never to recover. Even if you lose a couple thousand plat it’s the cheapest self-PL you can afford for a pally minus a DW Helm.

[Loadsamoney]

When I bought a Reaver my grind speed and ease was noticeable and it was over an iceflame proccing for 65dd at the time.

Once the pally is in the 50’s if you aren’t burning plat on expensive items you will have enough for a woodsman and then can do the same with the ranger. Trying to gear two toons with a 30’s main is very tough.

I’m not trying to brow-beat you on this. I’m just saying if you buy a reaver now, level to 50’something on it and sell it you “rented a reaver”. It’s not something you memmed never to recover. Even if you lose a couple thousand plat it’s the cheapest self-PL you can afford for a pally minus a DW Helm.

I'll consider it, but I had already decided on what weapons my alts were going to use:

Ranger: Lamentation x2
Silver Swiftblade
Springwood Stave

Shadowknight: Noctivigant Blade, Ebon Mace, Atramentous Shield
Zealot's Incarnadine Sword (past 50)
Deathbringer's Rod (before 50)

Bard: Di'zok Wristsnapper, Guardian's Mace (later I'd get a Breath of Harmony)

Pally I'd just stick to Baton of Faith and SoulFire until I upgrade to Fiery Avenger.

[Loadsamoney]

Well, I just dinged 39, am heading back to Paineel now with new spells in tow. My hope is that I'm now strong enough to take on the 35ish Guards at the Palace, two at a time (there's four in total there, two on each side of the pond). I was told I can take this place to as high as 53 if I want, but if I can get to 49 or 50 I'd be happy.

Not that I'll be able to anytime soon, but at what level can a melee class feasibly start soloing the Geodes in Wakening Lands? Assuming they're not camped all the time.

[Loadsamoney]

Well, nevermind, I died. Zoned out of CC to head back to Thurgadin, and a Ry'gorr Emissary and some guy named Rodrick Tardok are right there when I come out, and they kill me before I can zone. That's such horseshit for the game to put you right in harms way as you exit that place, when I had to zone anyway thanks to the stalag terrors chasing me.

*sigh* I try not to use this concept when I'm playing any game as generally I try to take responsibility for my faults, but in this case, dying like that just wasn't...fair.