Paineel and Erudite SKs

[Grimstrike]

Is anyone else waiting for Erudite SKs to be available as a tank option? If so, is it mainly Str and Int to stack along with HP/AC gear later on?

[Baler]

Is anyone else waiting for Erudite SKs to be available as a tank option?
No, unless your into RP or dark odus immersion.
Erudite being one of the Int SK options, DE is already avaiable for Int based SK
Troll/Ogre being the min/max choice depending on playstyle.

creation pooints for SK are 20, Erudite already eats up 5 to achieve 75 agi. Leaving 15 to to put into Sta for 90 sta, 117 int.

If so, is it mainly Str and Int to stack along with HP/AC gear later on?
Sta & Int, SK doesn't do much melee damage, they're more geared towards pulling,tagging,trash mob tanking. So you want Sta for hitpoints and Int for your mana pool. Only enough STR to carry gear, loot, coin.

By the end of velious they get a melee damage buff. But at that point stats should be no problem for any race/class if you dedicate yourself to it.

SK tanks through spell agro.

[Keebz]

Erudite SKs are definitely cool af. I'd probably put some points into STR to help with encumbrance, but as Baler said, do 5 into AGI and any remaining points into STA.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Depends on your plans for this character.

If you care about Min/Max (relative to an Erudite), and you want to take this character all the way to Velious, then don't put points into STR. You should be able to hit 255 STR easily with gear + Maniacal Strength + Focus of Spirit.

You are also going to get a lot of STA gear, and Riotous health. An Erudite with Riotous Health and Enlightenment has 125 STA and 138 INT, assuming they are naked, and no points were put into either stat on creation. This means putting 15 points into STA is only going to make you even with your INT, at best. In many cases, an SK would not want to waste a spell slot on Enlightenment, and tank gear tends to prefer STA over INT.

With the previous comments on STR and STA, INT becomes the hardest stat to max, and therefore the best place to put your points in the long run. This means +5 AGI/ +15 INT. You will suffer for a good portion of the game, however, with the low STR. My Troll SK has about 115 stones of equipment he carries around. This is before coin or farmed items come into my inventory.

That being said, a large mana pool isn't a huge bonus for SKs. My Troll SK rarely (if ever) has a serious mana issue caused by lack of max mana. This is why big races tend to be the best choice for Min/Max. The loss of STR/STA due to hitting the 255 cap early isn't a big deal, due to the marginal gains from max mana. They also get two nice bonuses: Slam and regen/frontal stun immunity. These bonuses are 100% better than max mana.

In conclusion, if you don't want to go super Min/Max, then +5 AGI/+15 STR would be the best choice, for the sanity you will have while leveling up your character. Being overweight all the time is going to suck way more than the extra HP you lose. If you want to go super Min/Max, do +5 AGI/+15 INT to get the most gains out of your endgame Velious gear.

[gherron]

I think an Erud SK who has Blacksmithing to make steelsilk armor would be cool as hell. However, this is just to win at fashionquest as Erud SKs seem pretty bad gameplay wise.

[Baler]

I strongly disagree with DeathsSilkyMist's "super" min/max of +15 int for an erudite sk. You'll be living hell in classic/kunark.

If you roll ogre/troll, yes +15 int is fine. But we're talking Erudite, the highest base int race in the game..

You'll want that STA on your Erudite SK, Regardless of shaman buffs and gear. The more base STA you have, the easier it will be to fill in other items such as +HP and +Mana
Which you otherwise would be debating on for a piece of gear with +sta
Don't forget to mention that if you're geared up in Resist gear, you'll still have that creation +sta working in your favor for hp.

If you really want to get into the "super" min/max. There is a healthy balance between stats and raw +hp/mana gear. Make a magelo on the wiki or look at other SK's Magelo

Bug report in the works for putting a massive flat cap on mana gained after 200 int/wis. So I wouldn't be banking on hitting 255 int, you'll only gain 55-110-165 more mana for that 55 int.
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232455

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Erudites will be in a "living hell" in Classic/Kunark, regardless of where you put those 15 points. Having 70 starting strength is terrible for any plate class. This is why players don't pick Erudite SKs. I also stated maximum mana isn't very useful on an SK. That is another reason why people don't pick Erudite SKs. I am talking about the best starting stats for an Erudite, not the best race for an SK.

"Super Min/Max" assumes you are shooting for BiS endgame Velious. You can take your own suggestion and create a Magelo as an Erudite with the best raid gear an SK can get. You will cap out on your STR and STA, while still being being well under 255 INT. Currently the Erudite SK I made is at 255 STR, 255 STA, and 208 INT. That is after putting the 15 points into INT. This is what "Super Min/Max" means. You want to minimize the amount of points you lose by going over 255 on a stat. Getting +100 mana is better than the +0HP and +0ATK you are getting from all those points over 255.

If you do not care about "Super Min/Max", then STR is the second best choice. As I said before, my Troll SK is at 115 stones of weight, with all of his extra gear being in 50% WR bags or better. This is also without coin. Without good WR bags, that's more like 150 stone. Being overweight for a long period of your characters life will be very annoying. Hard to get places, hard to run away. By the time you can afford 8 Tink bags, you will be in a position where your starting stats do not affect your current play style.

[Baler]

Share the Magelo

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Sure!

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:EruditeSKMan

[Baler]

Sure!

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:EruditeSKMan

You have a Palladius` Axe of Slaughter (https://wiki.project1999.com/Palladius%60_Axe_of_Slaughter)?
If so, then everyone listen to this guy,. He has Vulak loot.

I'll concede if that's true.
You can literally do anything you want with the 20 creation points with gear like that. That's like luclin gear.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

No, that is not my character lol. I keep saying the point of "Super Min/Max" is the assumption you will get BiS raid gear. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough. When I said I made that Erudite, I meant on Magelo, not in game.

[Jimjam]

Super min max for erudite sk is iksar monk. Cazic holy warrior: good enough.

Many shamans at 60 are reluctant to double cast str/focus, and that is gonna be spamming up your buffbox too.

[DoodyLich666]

I have been planning to make an erudite shadow knight. I’m not a fan of the dark elf plate look, and as much as I love trolls I have trouble moving them around places. The erudite just look too cool in those heavy armors. My plan was to go strength and agility since I don’t really see myself doing a ton of raiding end game. It seems like without enough strength I would take an agility hit from the weight of my equipment, thus making me lose my precious AC.

[Baler]

Many shamans at 60 are reluctant to double cast str/focus, and that is gonna be spamming up your buffbox too.

Can confirm, only buffed rogues/mage epic pets with str then focus. Everyone else I told fos has str deal with it.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You gotta find some better shaman friends:D

I always comply with STR/DEX requests on top of FoS/STA. Not everyone has amazing gear, or started as a Troll/Orge. They need their Wheaties!

[Jimjam]

I feel like an ogre double buffing erudites strength because their character was rolled that way is some microagression...

[Baler]

Erudite and Dark Elf are the go to if you want an Int based SK. I don't think anyone will argue this.

[strongNpretty]

Definitely choose Erudite SK over other options purely to despise the min/max idiots. Who the fuck cares, seriously?

You have the rest of your life to get gear on this server and balance your stats out, no matter what you choose... The only real valid complaint I have for Erudites- Is the helmet bug, that shit is pissing me off, FIX THAT!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Definitely choose Erudite SK over other options purely to despise the min/max idiots. Who the fuck cares, seriously?

You have the rest of your life to get gear on this server and balance your stats out, no matter what you choose... The only real valid complaint I have for Erudites- Is the helmet bug, that shit is pissing me off, FIX THAT!

Some people like Min/Maxing. That shouldn't be disparaged. If you want the best stats/racial benefits, roll the the best stats/racial benefits. There are tangible benefits to Min/Maxing. Having Troll/Iksar regeneration, for example, allows you to solo up to twice as fast as races without it. That is not a trivial matter for some people.

If you prefer the visual look of a race over any tangible benefits, that is fine too. Everquest is not a game where some races are unplayable. You will simply pay the price for your good looks, such as low starting strength, longer solo times, etc.

Knowledge is power. If you know exactly what the best Min/Max strategies are, you can easily deduce which draw backs you can live with, and which ones you cannot live with. If you can't live with the drawbacks, and don't mind the look of the race that has said benefits, roll that race. Otherwise, roll the race you think looks best. It is very simple.

[Jimjam]

Has anyone got a magelo for a min maxed erudite sk (contradiction in terms, surely) vs ogre, iksar or troll?

How good gear does the erudite need before their starting str/sta feel like a penalty? Are there enough candyland stat hand outs to pad them to max (buffed/unbuffed) without having to sacrifice other considerations in gear?

[elwing]

Forget str, he will be str capped, it's all about sta...

[Jimjam]

But do they have to gear sta at the expense of other stats at the highest tier or will they still cap sta by collateral when trying to max their hp pool, resists and stuff?

[Jimjam]

I looked at the velious raid gear suggestions, and it does like without even trying to accrue sta, the gear will provide roughly 160-170 points worth, which is just about close enough to bring the erudite to the cap without buffs.

The interesting thing to note is on p1999 resists are broken, and despite what the UI says, you can stack resists way over 255 and still get benefit. The 'real', 'hidden' cap seems to be four, maybe five hundred. Seeing as it seems any race can max their str / sta unbuffed with the minmax gear, but resists can't really be maxed, perhaps there is an argument the truest of the top SK minmax is in fact erudite, as they have a 5MR that no other races will ever get?!

(of course, that is just hypothetical, as I don't think very many knights at all would ever reach the full min max gearing, even with p1999's stretched timeframe.)

[elwing]

I don't know about the resist cap... Heard people saying yes and no... And I feel that when I have 330mr I resist fear more than with 255...hard to say if it's just sheer luck or if it's really the overcap resists...

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Has anyone got a magelo for a min maxed erudite sk (contradiction in terms, surely) vs ogre, iksar or troll?

How good gear does the erudite need before their starting str/sta feel like a penalty? Are there enough candyland stat hand outs to pad them to max (buffed/unbuffed) without having to sacrifice other considerations in gear?

I did post a Magelo of a Velious Raid Geared Erudite SK:

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:EruditeSKMan

This could be tweaked to be a bit more balanced on resists, too. He is over 255 STR and STA with that gear.

Velious Tank gear heavily favors STR/STA. As I previously mentioned in this thread, you do not NEED to put any starting points into STR or STA. This includes Erudites. There are way more tank items that increase STR/STA than other stats. STR and STA get nice buffs too. You will get 50 STA from Riotous Health, and 135 STR from Maniacal Strength + Focus of Spirit. If you have a Primal weapon, you will get an additional +100 STR, +100 DEX, and +100 AGI.

If you want to Min/Max, you should do +5 AGI / +15 INT as your starting stats. INT is the only stat that cannot really be capped with Tank gear and buffs. See the Magelo I posted above. AGI and DEX on that Magelo can easily be maxed with buffs, but the Erudite's INT is only 198. At best, you will get +21 INT from Enlightenment, bringing total INT to 229.

That being said, I would still personally do +5 AGI/+15 STR if I rolled an Erudite. Tanks carry a lot of weight, and being overweight is much more hazardous (due to AGI/Run speed loss) than the bit of extra HP/Mana you would lose from not increasing STA/INT. My 56 Troll SK runs around with 115 weight. This is before he starts carrying coin, or any items looted from killing. This is also without Tink bags. He has a combination of WR bags ranging from 10%-70%.

The only exception would be if I was willing to spend a TON of money on the Erudite SK to twink him out. 8 Tink bags and some nice tank gear would certainly remove any serious problems with STR. If serious twinking is an option, then I would do +5 AGI / +15 INT, due to INT being the hardest stat to max on tank gear.

In terms of the resistances debate, I haven't heard of resistances being viable over 255. Even if that were the case, 5 MR would not be make or break. I still get feared on dragons when I am "over" 255 MR. It seems to be almost impossible to prove whether or not "over" resistances are helpful. I Don't think I have seen anyone completely immune to dragon fears. Frontal Stun Immunity or Regen will still give you more mileage than +5 MR. Most mobs that cast spells can be consistently resisted at 255 (if the spell is resistable). The ones that cannot be consistently resisted, such as dragon fears, seem to have no point at which you can consistently resist them.

[elwing]

I agree on the 255 mr target, that's what I have with gmr... When I happen to be grouped with a bard I get way more, through I am unsure it really works, it's free when there's a bard around anyway

[DoodyLich666]

Anybody know when Paineel is supposed to drop? I am itching to roll my heretical shadow knight!

[Kavious]

Anybody know when Paineel is supposed to drop? I am itching to roll my heretical shadow knight!

http://wiki.project1999.com/Timeline#Development_timeline

[Philosoraptor6]

http://wiki.project1999.com/Timeline#Development_timeline

Have scrolled forums and don’t see exact date. I’m also new to green.

Do they normally just patch/add something like this with an FYI or do you know I’m advance? Trying to figure out exactly when in September I get to role my Erudite SK.

[Vertiggo]

I played an eru SK to 60 without twinking. It's super fun and fashionable . Get some flayed skin and a soul binder..BOOM ! you win eq fashion quest.

For lvling purposes I'd suggest 15 STR. 5agi. Just to make life easier. Min max isn't what it's about. Its the journey

[Videri]

The interesting thing to note is on p1999 resists are broken, and despite what the UI says, you can stack resists way over 255 and still get benefit. The 'real', 'hidden' cap seems to be four, maybe five hundred. Seeing as it seems any race can max their str / sta unbuffed with the minmax gear, but resists can't really be maxed, perhaps there is an argument the truest of the top SK minmax is in fact erudite, as they have a 5MR that no other races will ever get?!

http://wiki.project1999.com/Dragon_Roar

Dragon Roar has a -150 mr mod. Maybe if you put on 405 MR worth of gear+buffs/songs, you effectively have 255 versus Dragon Roar?

[greatdane]

I always find it silly when people discuss the relative power of races based on the assumption of full BiS gear. How many players actually get there? Especially on a class that competes with warriors for gear? It's basically just a thought experiment at that point. It's especially odd when people start talking about putting points in strength to make the early levels easier, as if this discussion was anything more than empty theorycrafting.

Prior to ToV, SK gear has surprisingly little stamina. The Thurg/Kael/SS sets are what most will settle for as their final goal. Full sets have the following total stats:

Thurg - 31 STR, 12 STA, 1 AGI, 11 DEX, 29 INT
Kael - 38 STR, 11 STA, 8 AGI, 22 DEX, 29 INT
SS - 34 STR, 32 STA, 12 AGI, 25 DEX, 26 INT

If you have an eurdite with 75 stamina or whatever, you'll need 130 stamina from gear even with the shaman buff. 180 without it (it's one of the first buffs you want to get rid of to get an extra buff slot). You're not getting that with the kind of gear that 99.5% of players have any hopes of seeing.

Erudites are neat in a thought experiment. In the real world where almost nobody gets even half a set of ToV gear, it's a race that'll handicap you for life. It'll be like playing an extra bad version of a class that already kind of sucks.

Let's look at a more realistic set of gear that can actually be obtained by mortal men:

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:AverageSK

That's with 15 points in stamina, too. And even that gear would be ambitious for the average player.

Talk about +5 MR as if it matters more than fifty points of stamina...

[Ennewi]

Group tanks don't need a great deal of HP. Pick up the high AC items on raids instead. Defensive disciplines are what really matter and SKs don't have one. Knight gear might not have a lot of STA but it's loaded with raw HP and no competition with Warriors over it, just other hybrids which are rare enough. Cloak of Silver Eyes. Boots of Dark Passage. Blood Runed Gauntlets/Girdle. Ashenbone Shield. ToV snowcone. If wanting to min/max finesse stats, go Warrior imo. Otherwise, choose the race you think looks coolest.

[greatdane]

And you don't need to equip rings and earrings to tank XP mobs, but if you don't do it, you're handing yourself a huge disadvantage for no reason. Playing an erudite SK instead of an ogre is basically the same as playing without rings and earrings. People are more than welcome to play the race that they think is neatest, but in any discussion about what's best, it's asinine to begin talking about how erudites are actually fine as long as you simply have the best gear that exists in the game. How many BiS SKs exist on blue? Is there even one, after all these years?

[Issar]

I played an eru SK to 60 without twinking. It's super fun and fashionable . Get some flayed skin and a soul binder..BOOM ! you win eq fashion quest.

For lvling purposes I'd suggest 15 STR. 5agi. Just to make life easier. Min max isn't what it's about. Its the journey

I'm no expert, but this is exactly what I did with my Eru Pal. You don't play an Erudite tank for min/max. Unless you have a solid set of twink gear with STR, you're going to want STR and 5pts of AGI for the AC penalty. Wearing plate without any added STR on an Erudite is tough going early on. The only thing that sucks about this in the long run (50+) is that str is virtually worthless due to sufficient gear stats and a general lack of usefulness. It's still the way I would go without twinking.

[Ennewi]

And you don't need to equip rings and earrings to tank XP mobs, but if you don't do it, you're handing yourself a huge disadvantage for no reason. Playing an erudite SK instead of an ogre is basically the same as playing without rings and earrings. People are more than welcome to play the race that they think is neatest, but in any discussion about what's best, it's asinine to begin talking about how erudites are actually fine as long as you simply have the best gear that exists in the game. How many BiS SKs exist on blue? Is there even one, after all these years?

Every race/class is fine imo. Less gear just means other party members have to pay closer attention, which can make xp grind sessions more exciting. It would be interesting if there was a Dark Souls deprived type race/class option in EQ, where players could choose to be a beggar character with low starting stats across the board and faction issues in all of Norrath. There's min/max, but then there's also the opposite of that, just not to such extremes. Doing more with less adds an element of danger in otherwise run of the mill content.

[greatdane]

kk