Dwarf or High Elf for a Paladin?

[Loadsamoney]

High Str/Sta and Barrel Roll versus high Wis/Cha and cultural armor, and a good two-hander if I follow Tunare.

My vote is Dwarf just for the superior melee stats, which is the most important aspect of a Paladin (and their Wisdom is still above average, only their Charisma suffers), but what's the verdict?

P.S: I really wish Dwarves had Slam. They should with their huge fists and shoulders.

[NegaStoat]

I think the last time this topic was covered in the forums, the general mood of the mob was that if you went High Elf and had access to gear (assuming blue server), everything into Wisdom was the way to go for the maximum returns on mana and gear flexibility. Same deal with Shadowknights -max Int for flexibility of gear and mana.

Green server is a much different ballgame and most folks simply wouldn't be able to stand a 65 base strength elf that's supposed to wear plate armor and carry junk. On Green, rolling a dwarf would be the way to go unless you are really, really dedicated for the long game.

[Loadsamoney]

I think the last time this topic was covered in the forums, the general mood of the mob was that if you went High Elf and had access to gear (assuming blue server), everything into Wisdom was the way to go for the maximum returns on mana and gear flexibility. Same deal with Shadowknights -max Int for flexibility of gear and mana.

Green server is a much different ballgame and most folks simply wouldn't be able to stand a 65 base strength elf that's supposed to wear plate armor and carry junk. On Green, rolling a dwarf would be the way to go unless you are really, really dedicated for the long game.

I play on Blue, not Green. Well, I play a bit on Red too, but mainly on Blue.

I have okay gear but nothing exotic like Fungi or Hiero.

[Kich867]

High Str/Sta and Barrel Roll versus high Wis/Cha and cultural armor, and a good two-hander if I follow Tunare.

My vote is Dwarf just for the superior melee stats, which is the most important aspect of a Paladin (and their Wisdom is still above average, only their Charisma suffers), but what's the verdict?

P.S: I really wish Dwarves had Slam. They should with their huge fists and shoulders.

Why is cultural armor not listed for dwarves as well? The dwarven cultural armor is absolutely nuts for paladins no? Super high AC, str, sta, wis, and resists?

[Loadsamoney]

Why is cultural armor not listed for dwarves as well? The dwarven cultural armor is absolutely nuts for paladins no?

Is it? I didn't know. Maybe I'll go for that instead of Armor of Ro.

[NegaStoat]

Oh. In that case, grab a partial set of crustacean shell armor with a Hero Bracer, other item slots filled with cheap to moderate price strength gear, and roll the high elf and enjoy the better spellpower without compromising anything with the free semi epic thrown in.

http://wiki.project1999.com/Natures_Defender

That's the Velious stage min-max option. If you can't stand the High Elf model, you can go Half Elf of Tunare and put everything into Wisdom instead and mix and match armor slot choices. Honest though, if you're on Blue there's no point to playing anything other than what you enjoy seeing on your screen the most.

Edit - regardless of what you roll, try to get a free http://wiki.project1999.com/Sword_of_Blessings early on by getting your paladin down in the dog area during a prime time weekend hunting hour set and leatherfoot raider skullcap out, or velium vapors.

[Loadsamoney]

Oh. In that case, grab a partial set of crustacean shell armor with a Hero Bracer, other item slots filled with cheap to moderate price strength gear, and roll the high elf and enjoy the better spellpower without compromising anything with the free semi epic thrown in.

http://wiki.project1999.com/Natures_Defender

That's the Velious stage min-max option. If you can't stand the High Elf model, you can go Half Elf of Tunare and put everything into Wisdom instead and mix and match armor slot choices. Honest though, if you're on Blue there's no point to playing anything other than what you enjoy seeing on your screen the most.

The other consideration that's important to me is what two-handers other than the pre-epic, Fiery Avenger, and the epic Fiery Defender, can a Pally bash with. If Nature's Defender can't be bashed with then it loses points for me.

[Baler]

half elf, nature's defender.

unless your thing is getting slow claps for barrel rolls.

[Jimjam]

Doesn’t dwarf have extra magic resist? Very handy for avoiding being rooted or blinded when pulling. This advantage is doubled down on by the cultural armour too iirc.

Not sure if the cost of making cultural is really worth it on blue though. It might be worth doing some faction tags on kael giants so you can check Skyshrine on /who all for guardian farmers and scrounge their unwanted pieces. Some nice drops higher up there too if you find a necro farming a shawl.

[White_knight]

If you're not a raider, hands down high elf with max wisdom.

Str and stm are fairly easy to comeby..esp if you start to get some okayish items.

Also the high elf cultrual which will carry you to 60 comes with high dex and charisma and wisdom.

Mt first paladin on p99 I went dwarf and str/stm/ 5 in agi...he was okay but my 2nd time around I went high elf wisdom build and its much funner.

To put in perspective at level 50ish he had the same manapool my semi decent raid geared dward paladin.

Hybrid power is contained within their mana pool.

[White_knight]

P.s go female high elf...just looks better.

Male high elves look...well you can guess what I was going to say.

You have 2 remember the returns on stm arent that great...in the over all scheme of things for an everyday hybrid....where as mana is.

[ChooChoo Train]

Do you want To be a smelly shortie with your nose low to the ground and roll around in the dirt?
Or
Do You want to stand tall and proud with your nose in the air, wearing fine linens?

[Pint]

Dwarf, elves are sissies

[Azeam]

To be a holy knight is not to be a dwarf - elves are not suited for frontline combat. Obvious choice is an Erudite.

[Lartanin63]

I really enjoyed my high elf paladin and mained him till I took time from blue. Nature's defender can't bash but 45 ac on a weapon is nothing to over look. One thing noone brought up and it seems that you like two handers. But leveling a paladin once you get 20 you could weild a ghoul bane, wear high elf culture armor and some other dex peices and own undead into the upper 40s. You will have a shield and you can bash with that. Sword of morning is another weapon you can swap out if not fighting undead and has a good ratio. The higher Wis is nice because you can just wear melee stay gear and still have a nice mana pool. Higher Wis has helped me a ton with crafting as well. Ive almost completed my last shawl for thurg.

[Snaggles]

I went Eru and picked up a shield of the stalwart seas at creation. Even pumped Str and a little agility. I’m not optimized but whatever :). With my gear (Ac/hp...EC buys) and without the STR I’d be constantly close to overweight.

Dwarves have better melee stats but their charisma sucks. Without about 120-150 CHA (easy with a few swaps or a buff) your lull pulls will not be reliable at all.

Doing it again I’d probably go HIE with STA as a raider or CHA as a casual soloer. The ND quest is ridiculously easy. Prob WIS if I expected to get NTOV gear readily.

[Loadsamoney]

The Wis and mana pool thing makes me wonder why anybody would play a Half Elf Paladin for any reason other than fashion or roleplay, because for whatever dumb reason, Half Elves have absolute butt Wisdom scores.

[Exard3k]

The Wis and mana pool thing makes me wonder why anybody would play a Half Elf Paladin for any reason other than fashion or roleplay, because for whatever dumb reason, Half Elves have absolute butt Wisdom scores.

So it is a lack of wisdom to choose half-elf. But it also better reflects your RL attributes in your toon. I've chosen human. Mithaniel Marr forever! Truth and Light!

[Snaggles]

The Wis and mana pool thing makes me wonder why anybody would play a Half Elf Paladin for any reason other than fashion or roleplay, because for whatever dumb reason, Half Elves have absolute butt Wisdom scores.

Because mana is the size of your tank, not the rate of your regen. Unless you are breaking a huge room or trying for a hard duo/solo you won’t use a full tank of gas.

Stamina at least is a 5.5 hp conversion making every complete heal more efficient and giving a larger buffer for mobs to do burst damage.

I wouldn’t disregard WIS, it’s welcome and comes on the best gear, but would never optimize for it. As mentioned my pally has EC junk and like 1500 mana. He also has 1190 AC with the FD and 1235ish with a shield (self buffed). Even with those paltry figures I wouldn’t dump 200ac and some hps for 500 mana. Sure it’s 1400 in heals (2x celestial cleansing) but once you fire those off you’re just lacking the tank stats.

Also for what it’s worth I soloed 99% of my toons life to 60. You will have the DW helm on almost the entire time so heals are free so long as you can keep the npc rooted.

[Loadsamoney]

Because mana is the size of your tank, not the rate of your regen. Unless you are breaking a huge room or trying for a hard duo/solo you won’t use a full tank of gas.

Stamina at least is a 5.5 hp conversion making every complete heal more efficient and giving a larger buffer for mobs to do burst damage.

I wouldn’t disregard WIS, it’s welcome and comes on the best gear, but would never optimize for it. As mentioned my pally has EC junk and like 1500 mana. He also has 1190 AC with the FD and 1235ish with a shield (self buffed). Even with those paltry figures I wouldn’t dump 200ac and some hps for 500 mana. Sure it’s 1400 in heals (2x celestial cleansing) but once you fire those off you’re just lacking the tank stats.

Also for what it’s worth I soloed 99% of my toons life to 60. You will have the DW helm on almost the entire time so heals are free so long as you can keep the npc rooted.

Yeah, I think I'm better suited to Dwarf here. Having low strength on a class that wears plate armor and carries a big two-hander or a shield doesn't seem smart. And Dwarf cultural has a pretty sizable Wisdom boost as well, when I eventually get it (as a placeholder for Valorium if nothing else). Besides, Dwarf has the second best Wisdom score for a Pally at 88, and not just the highest Strength and Stamina, but the highest Dex as well, for weapon procs.

ND is pretty juicy but if down to a choice between the two, I'd still rather use FD (or even FA) for access to Bash.

[Snaggles]

The rule of this game is play what you like the look of. That’s more important than any stat or racial advantage because it’s a LONG grind and in the end (gear and levels) it’s all pretty close.

The FD is a nice toy. It’s quite a bit more obnoxious to quest than the ND. Even the FA is like 5x+ more time consuming.

The only downfall to dwarves are their charisma. If you pick your targets carefully, have a flee path, or know a puller it’s not a problem. Just don’t try to lull hard stuff out with like 60 CHA. Your crit resist chance is extremely high.

[Loadsamoney]

The rule of this game is play what you like the look of. That’s more important than any stat or racial advantage because it’s a LONG grind and in the end (gear and levels) it’s all pretty close.

The FD is a nice toy. It’s quite a bit more obnoxious to quest than the ND. Even the FA is like 5x+ more time consuming.

The only downfall to dwarves are their charisma. If you pick your targets carefully, have a flee path, or know a puller it’s not a problem. Just don’t try to lull hard stuff out with like 60 CHA. Your crit resist chance is extremely high.

Even with ND I'd still want to quest for FD. EVERY class should quest for their Epic, IMO. It's part of the journey.

Personally I prefer Froglok Pallies (and Beastlord class), but that's not an option here.

[White_knight]

- ND is a 4 mob kill quest (3 are grouped, one is raid in PoH or can probably buy the PoH bit as an MQ for 10-15k me suspects)

- FD is a fairly long faction/epic grind.

For a casualish player (if that's you?) you will get an ND way before a FD/FA

[Loadsamoney]

- ND is a 4 mob kill quest (3 are grouped, one is raid in PoH or can probably buy as an MQ for 10-15k me )

- FD is a fairly long faction/epic grind.

For a casualish player (if that's you?) you will get an ND way before a FD/FA

Generally I start working on faction and pickups right out of the gate.

Deepwater Knights is the only real faction grind needed, and it's easily maxed once you hit Level 7. Just camp and kill Elial Brook in Toxxulia all day. Lots of Deepwater faction per kill, 6 minute respawn.

Priests of Life just takes a couple hours of gold donations to Lashun Novashine.

That's really the only faction the epic requires.

[White_knight]

Plus it really all is about Fashun quest.

And you cant go past those big foreheaded island dwellers for that.

[Loadsamoney]

Still makes no sense to me that Dwarfs don't have Slam with their giant shoulders, big meaty fists, and high strength.

[White_knight]

Agreed.

It sucks SKs have races with slam and Paladins dont.

[Loadsamoney]

Well anyway, this is the gear my Pally is starting with:

Sword of the Morning
Sarnak Battle Shield
Idol of the Thorned
Crested Helm
Crested Spaulders
Brigandine Tunic
Hardened Clay Bracelet
Kylong Wrist Guard
Dwarven Work Boots
Black Ice Leggings
Silver Chitin Hand Wraps
Sarnak Hide Mask
Chipped Velium Amulet
Dire Wolf-Hide Cloak
Crystalline Belt
Orc Fang Earring x2
Velium Fire Wedding Ring X2

How far will this equipment get me before I start having big problems?

[Jimjam]

60

[Loadsamoney]

60

It'll get me that far, really? Maybe I can save all that plat for a Book of Scale then, and a Jboots MQ.

[Jimjam]

It would get me that far, with dedication ':D. Your mileage/patience may vary. It's more a matter of attrition and being in the right place / right time than the quality of your gear, after a point (and I think you meet the threshold).

I'd get the Jboots first, unless you are sure you can get the epic done really early on.

[Snaggles]

Get a 2hr too. SoTM is a legit great tank weapon to 60. For solo it’s painfully bad compared to most 2hs in the .75 ratio and better category.

[Loadsamoney]

Get a 2hr too. SoTM is a legit great tank weapon to 60. For solo it’s painfully bad compared to most 2hs in the .75 ratio and better category.

I was gonna go for https://wiki.project1999.com/Arbitor%27s_Combine_Greatsword

[Strifen]

I went dwarf with +20 into stamina.

Starting with 115 stam, an extra 5 mr/pr, eventual overpowered dwarf cultural, and don't discount the fact they start with 90 dex - you're going to be using a proc weapon the vast majority of the time.

Don't neglect your mana but my opinion is that paladins should be focusing on beefing up their HPs and AC first and foremost. You don't need this massive mana pool for most situations and especially your typical 6 man dungeon grind you will be limited by regen more then anything. Focus on HP/AC to make your clerics more efficient with complete healing. For this reason Dwarf was the obvious choice for me.. The low CHA is the only downside but it's not a big deal, if anything serious needs to be pacified I'll get the 200+ CHA chanter to do it for me anyway.

[White_knight]

This tread made me reinstall P99 and have a bash with my Paladin again.

Feels good.

[White_knight]

thread*

[Loadsamoney]

Get a 2hr too. SoTM is a legit great tank weapon to 60. For solo it’s painfully bad compared to most 2hs in the .75 ratio and better category.

What are you recommending, that I joust with mobs by Rooting them and then only coming into attack range once my next swing is ready?

I'm trying for one of the following:

Arbitor's Combine Sword
Axe of Lost Souls
Fatecaller
Vindication
Baton of Faith

I could get a Jade Inlaid Crescent Axe too but it's pricy. And I have to find a seller with any of these weapons.

Vindication would be my preference here.

[Lurgort/Sseri]

Argent Protector would be great jousting weapon, a bit spendy though.

[Snaggles]

Anything around 30 dmg will work fine for jousting. I’d be tempted to avoid DD procs or the Vindication since they can break root early for that.

An iceflame is a great weapon (Despite the DD proc) and trains up piercing for a Narandi. Arguably the best joust weapon a pally can buy at 55.

Reaver and Argent Protector are great but reselling can be a chore if you need to do that.

An earthshaker until the Narandi is probably the king. A big double attack and earthquake proc can do like 600dmg in a single round.

[Loadsamoney]

Anything around 30 dmg will work fine for jousting. I’d be tempted to avoid DD procs or the Vindication since they can break root early for that.

An iceflame is a great weapon (Despite the DD proc) and trains up piercing for a Narandi. Arguably the best joust weapon a pally can buy at 55.

Reaver and Argent Protector are great but reselling can be a chore if you need to do that.

An earthshaker until the Narandi is probably the king. A big double attack and earthquake proc can do like 600dmg in a single round.

Is Vindication a proc? I was led to believe it's a clickie.

I'd probably go for a Fatecaller then.

[White_knight]

What are you recommending, that I joust with mobs by Rooting them and then only coming into attack range once my next swing is ready?

I'm trying for one of the following:

Arbitor's Combine Sword
Axe of Lost Souls
Fatecaller
Vindication
Baton of Faith

I could get a Jade Inlaid Crescent Axe too but it's pricy. And I have to find a seller with any of these weapons.

Vindication would be my preference here.

Baton of Faith - you can get one of these for 50pp and I personally used one for levels 20-45ish.

.75 ratio for 50pp is pretty darn good.