New Lodizal Agreement Proposal

[weaseal]

Background:
As it stands, Lodizal is a simple FTE mob, whoever gets first engage wins. So most people park pets on his spawn point, and try to hit their '/pet attack' macro ASAP on pop.

The problem:
This FTE method rewards two things which do not require any skill.
1) Ping -- players who live near the P99 server have a significant advantage over those who do not. This requires no skill and is purely based on luck, and cannot be easily compensated for.

2) Autofire -- the current FTE status of the camp strongly encourages players to use autofire programs to beat others to FTE. There's basically no reason not to use it. Obviously I have no way of proving that anyone is, but I strongly suspect that most people who camp Lodizal are using autofire.

Proposal:
Let's change Lodizal to a roll, like scout. The winner gets dibs on the kill for 30 minutes, and players who rolled stay to help kill, or the winner can ask their guild for help if not enough people are around.

[weaseal]

Additional details: The roll window would be 20 seconds, meaning that the cutoff for the final roll would be 20 seconds after the first roll. From discussions with GMs, the server does not log rolls, so players would be encouraged to record video in case of a dispute.

If the winning roll player has not killed Lodizal within the allocated 30 minute period, Lodizal then becomes the sole opportunity of 2nd place roll, and so on. If 2nd place roll has left the zone by that time, s/he is skipped and it goes to 3rd place, and so on.

Loot:
It doesn't matter who gets XP, who got FTE, or who got the final blow. Only the roll matters with regard to who wins loot. If someone who did not win the roll takes the loot without permission from the winner, they are in violation of the agreement and GMs could punish appropriately. An abandoned Lodizal corpse is not FFA loot (consider the winning player may be swapping to an alt to loot).

[loramin]

I like this, very much. I think clickfests are dumb, and player agreements (whatever their faults) are superior.

However, I do have to warn you (and I say this as someone who helped make the Shady Goblin agreement happen) ... agreements are very hard to get started. You have to get everyone "on the ground" involved to agree to them. Forum posts a good first step, but they're only the beginning.

Maybe the staff would accept it if everyone except one jackass who refuses ... but with Shady we had to put up with Siryado breaking the agreement multiple times, even after everyone else agreed to it. It was only after he finally gave up that we finally got the agreement "cemented", and it was only then that the staff began "policing" it and punishing people who turned-in instead of rolling.

Personally I kinda of hope the staff rolls out "/list 2.0" and applies it to mobs like Lodizal, making such an agreement necessary. But since they operate on their own timetable it could be years until that happens ... if it even does. So it's very possible this agreement is the only chance to end the clickfest anytime soon.

I wish you luck!

[RevSaber]

Why not just do /picks and AoCs at this point... Smh...

[Evia]

I like this agreement. As Loramin said though its tough to get everyone on board.

[kaizersoze]

Just join Dawn Believers and own the turtle :)

Pras be Ragu, turtle king.

[m00r5tuD]

It's not a bad idea, I would be in favor of something like this. Lodizal engage is long overdue for a revamp.

My idea has always been give Lodizal a bunch of different spawn points like Guardian Kozzalym, so the autofire overlords can't AFK on his spawn point for hours and automatically win.

Either method would be an improvement.

[baakss]

I don’t agree.

However, I would be keen on foot racing from some predetermined line, if you’d really prefer to avoid the clickfest.

[Solist]

Just autofire it like robthe, foroar, etc. who regularly died after fte without even moving.

[Wisecracker]

I'm in DB and have a lot of experience doing lodi. We ensure none of our guys cheat/autofire but we've had constant issues and suspicions with other players using autofire. Some of them we've seen get FTE and then just stand there and die AFK. Some of them have been caught and some haven't. We're a casual guild and don't usually have guys recording everything.

We've also had GMs investigate before but they have a hard time determining if people are autofiring or not. And latency plays a part as well. People near the server (maryland?) have much lower latency and get FTE much more often than people with higher latencies. I imagine someone with >100 ping would have no chance.

I've thought about the issue before and I think something similar to m00r5tuD's solution is best. Have 4-6 possible static spawn points for him so that your chances at snagging lodi has more to do with numbers and luck than ping/cheating. Not sure if the GM's are into that though.

[branamil]

Guys we didnt even get an earthquake or xp bonus this weekend, they are definitely not going to re-program lodizal's spawn, esp since its not classic

[aaezil]

Sorry you didnt get oversized turtle

[ScottBerta]

I’d be for a roll off but I would propose winner gets pick of first item, 2nd place second item, etc ..this may encourage more to help kill. I also like the idea of having people help or forced to help like Scout.

[Jimjam]

Why not just do /picks and AoCs at this point... Smh...
Great question! I’m sure there are almost as many answers to this question as there are players.

Here is my answer: Because a complaint about instances is they reduce the world by removing community, whereas consensus and cooperation is the opposite of that.

[jolanar]

Great question! I’m sure there are almost as many answers to this question as there are players.

Here is my answer: Because a complaint about instances is they reduce the world by removing community, whereas consensus and cooperation is the opposite of that.

Is it really a consensus though? Do the majority of the players even visit the forums regularly? Or is it 30 or 40 forumquesters who probably don't even play much anymore deciding these things?

[elwing]

I don't like this agreement but I hate the cheaters autofireing even more..

[Lotxi]

Is it really a consensus though? Do the majority of the players even visit the forums regularly? Or is it 30 or 40 forumquesters who probably don't even play much anymore deciding these things?

It's definitely not people on the forums deciding how these things work. As Loramin mentioned with regards to the Shady Goblin roll, it doesn't matter what people on the forum decide unless you convince people on the ground to go along with the agreement. Just look at the ring 8 poll (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=353638) for a great example of this: an overwhelming majority of forum responders support changing how the roll works but that doesn't mean the roll has changed or will change as a result.

[newsgent]

i love this idea and would support its implementation! the current system is heavily biased towards US east coast players and is inherently unfair... sad that p99 staff have allowed this to go on for years already! change is way overdue

[baakss]

Guys we didnt even get an earthquake or xp bonus this weekend, they are definitely not going to re-program lodizal's spawn, esp since its not classic

We didn't know where or when Lodizal was going to spawn on our server on live in era. I just found him up wandering.

The current implementation is even more unclassic.

[Daldolma]

Rolling is the worst possible option. Scout is an absolute travesty where 50 people line up their 9th alts for a 2% chance at conveyor belt loot. The encounter is completely trivialized and in almost all instances, the winning roller and his friends/guildmates in attendance would have zero chance of actually killing the Captain but for the fact that 49 other neck beards are honor bound to help since they too rolled. Replicating that process on Lodi is a terrible idea.

Just change the spawn timer. Make him completely random. No window, no variance, no skips. Work out the probabilities so he spawns at roughly the same rate, but with no rules on timing. If folks wanna spend 48 straight hours sitting at Lodi spawn to race for FTE, let them.

[Fammaden]

Rolling is the worst possible option. Scout is an absolute travesty where 50 people line up their 9th alts for a 2% chance at conveyor belt loot. The encounter is completely trivialized and in almost all instances, the winning roller and his friends/guildmates in attendance would have zero chance of actually killing the Captain but for the fact that 49 other neck beards are honor bound to help since they too rolled. Replicating that process on Lodi is a terrible idea.

People's ninth alts only deserve good loot if they farm tens of thousands of platinum to buy it. Showing up every ten hours for months on end is far too easy compared to farming 20k.

[Daldolma]

People's ninth alts only deserve good loot if they farm tens of thousands of platinum to buy it. Showing up every ten hours for months on end is far too easy compared to farming 20k.

I don't really care whether people gear up 9 alts or not. But gameplay mechanics should encourage actually... playing the game in order to get that gear.

Logging in and out a toon and typing /ran every 10 hours for a 2% chance at being handed loot is a non-classic bastardization of EQ.

[Pretzelle]

Just have him spawn randomly during his window at any node on his path. Or hell, at any random loc in the zone.

[Nathaniel]

...
Or hell, at any random loc in the zone.

That would make him very likely to spawn somewhere in the huge ocean towards North Ro.
Would be fun actually! :-)

[Baler]

a lot of people who play P99 don't even read or post on the forums.

[LazyHydras]

Rolling is the worst possible option. Scout is an absolute travesty where 50 people line up their 9th alts for a 2% chance at conveyor belt loot. The encounter is completely trivialized and in almost all instances, the winning roller and his friends/guildmates in attendance would have zero chance of actually killing the Captain but for the fact that 49 other neck beards are honor bound to help since they too rolled. Replicating that process on Lodi is a terrible idea.

Just change the spawn timer. Make him completely random. No window, no variance, no skips. Work out the probabilities so he spawns at roughly the same rate, but with no rules on timing. If folks wanna spend 48 straight hours sitting at Lodi spawn to race for FTE, let them.

This. I know this isn't the Scout Roll amendment thread, but, I am still in favor of Loramin's suggestion there regarding bring-your-own-group and there being a /list mechanic for each group.

[LazyHydras]

THIS being said. . . how are you going to implement a roll on a mob like Lodizal with variance and a skip mechanic? lel.

[loramin]

THIS being said. . . how are you going to implement a roll on a mob like Lodizal with variance and a skip mechanic? lel.

There's different ways you could do it, but one way would be that anyone can /list for Lodi any time (as long as he's not up). Then when he spawns, everyone on the list gets an AFK check. Of those who answer it within 20 seconds (or whatever time period) the system does a "roll", and the winner of that roll gets first crack at Lodi. If they fail to kill Lodi in 20 minutes (or whatever time period) a new "roll" happens.

However, it's important to note that even if the staff reads this very post and thinks "yes, that's exactly what we want on P99!" (which is far from guaranteed) ... any sort of "automated GMing" requires significant custom coding on their part. They have lots of priorities for this place, and even if "automating the GMing of Lodi" was priority #1 (not likely) they still would need to take awhile to actually write and test that code.

In other words, even if the staff <3's these ideas, it will likely still be a very long time before we see any of them in-game (and of course, if they don't then we'll never see them). Thus, unless everyone wants to keep doing clickfests, the server will need a player agreement for many months ... if not years (... if not forever).

[Baler]

I feel like not a single person read my last post in this thread. Which defeats the entire purpose of this thread.

in fact I wasn't even first.. Loramin made it clear
However, I do have to warn you (and I say this as someone who helped make the Shady Goblin agreement happen) ... agreements are very hard to get started. You have to get everyone "on the ground" involved to agree to them. Forum posts a good first step, but they're only the beginning.

Furthermore Lodizal isn't a quest npc like shady goblin, you don't hand it anything. It's a FTE mob people kill for loot, loot that isn't even BIS no matter how you try to spin it.
"rant= It's EC fat cat bullshit trying to manipulate spawns under the guise of bettering the server through an 'agreement' that not everyone agree's to"
ps. I have no stakes in lodizal, I've never even seen it in game.

[loramin]

ps. I have no stakes in lodizal, I've never even seen it in game.

FWIW I did the click fest once. And by "once", I mean I sat there for two entire hours, clicking constantly, and Lodi didn't show up, so I came back and clicked constantly for another two hours ... and he still didn't spawn. At that point I decided "let the six Dawn Believers (all of whom had been presumably sitting there clicking constantly for four hours) have it."

It was gross, and I will likely never do it again (if only because my wrists just can't take that RSI!) It's not classic, it's not good for anyone (I can't imagine even the Dawn Believer folks enjoyed it), and I think just about any replacement whatsoever would be better.

[Kich867]

FWIW I did the click fest once. And by "once", I mean I sat there for two entire hours, clicking constantly, and Lodi didn't show up, so I came back and clicked constantly for another two hours ... and he still didn't spawn. At that point I decided "let the six Dawn Believers (all of whom had been presumably sitting there clicking constantly for four hours) have it."

It was gross, and I will likely never do it again (if only because my wrists just can't take that RSI!) It's not classic, it's not good for anyone (I can't imagine even the Dawn Believer folks enjoyed it), and I think just about any replacement whatsoever would be better.

I've never been involved in much of the raid scene, what about that isn't classic though? How did the spawn work on live? Just wondering, seen so much discussion about this mob over the years.

[Baler]

FWIW I did the click fest once. And by "once", I mean I sat there for two entire hours, clicking constantly, and Lodi didn't show up, so I came back and clicked constantly for another two hours ... and he still didn't spawn. At that point I decided "let the six Dawn Believers (all of whom had been presumably sitting there clicking constantly for four hours) have it."

It was gross, and I will likely never do it again (if only because my wrists just can't take that RSI!) It's not classic, it's not good for anyone (I can't imagine even the Dawn Believer folks enjoyed it), and I think just about any replacement whatsoever would be better.

Kunark and Velious didn't last for years,
It wasn't the titanium client,
There was no p99 wiki.

Classic? My argument with this post is unfair I'll admit but.. not classic.. Welcome to Project 1999 blue.

A more proactive use of time regarding lodizal would be to prepare ideas for solving this problem on green. Which may, sadly, be /list

I know for a fact that shady goblin & the dwarf in EW agreements are rooted with certain players who had stakes/interests in those mobs. Not average players who just want a shot at a mob. The oll politician bait and switch routine. Oh yeah an agreement can work, especially when the deck is favorably stacked.

What's the most classic is no player agreement for lodizal.

---
If an agreement is really generated. All the members of the council that design the agreement need to Vetted thoroughly for their interests.

[loramin]

I've never been involved in much of the raid scene, what about that isn't classic though? How did the spawn work on live? Just wondering, seen so much discussion about this mob over the years.

Basically just what everyone else has been saying: no one knew exactly where or when Lodi was going to spawn. If you wanted Lodi ... or many other "mysterious" mobs back then (eg. Quillmane, South Ro AC, etc.) ... you just hung out in the zone they were in, in the general area people had seen the mob, preferably with a Ranger friend to help you track ... and hoped for it to appear. Any system where everyone waits at a single spot and then "competes" for Lodi is really nothing like what people were doing back in 2001.

In that sense, I think making Lodi have random spawn points, have a (far) more random timer, or otherwise making him impossible to camp, would be a very "classic" solution, as it would get people to play the game of 2001, not the game of 2020.

An automated GMing solution would be classic in a different way: it'd be more about "we are playing this game with 2020 knowledge, and we're not going to try and fix that, but we want a fair way to share Lodi between everyone who wants him." If two people did get in a fight over Lodi back in the day, the GMs would have resolved that fight (ultimately with a random roll: see Velious GM Guidelines (http://wiki.project1999.com/Velious_Era_Customer_Service_Guidelines) ... or the similar, and better formatted Kunark GM Guildelines (http://wiki.project1999.com/Kunark_Era_Customer_Service_Guidelines)). /list would be classic in the sense that it provides similar "fair resolution of a contested mob" ... but since we don't have paid GMs it would use "automated GMing", which is the next best thing we can have here.

Ultimately which "fix" is better comes down to how the staff wants to pursue "classic" (sacrifice classic mechanics for a more classic environment, or vice versa) ... but either approach would be significantly closer to what people did in 2001 vs. clicking a screen for two hours solid here.

[Kirdan]

I like the suggestion that Lodizal gets the Guardian Kozz treatment and spawns somewhere randomly on his path instead of the same dirty, Robthe-stained spot.

[loramin]

Kunark and Velious didn't last for years,
It wasn't the titanium client,
There was no p99 wiki.

Classic? My argument with this post is unfair I'll admit but.. not classic.. Welcome to Project 1999 blue.

I'm sorry Baler, I think that's a terrible argument. Are we going to Luclin, PoP, or LDoN with Blue?

If not, then it's a classic server, and the goal will always be to make it as classic as possible. As "beta Blue", with seven years of Kunark, it can never be perfectly classic ... but that doesn't mean we can't/shouldn't aim for classic (if only, as you suggested, to get it right for Green).

I know for a fact that shady goblin & the dwarf in EW agreements are rooted with certain players who had stakes/interests in those mobs. Not average players who just want a shot at a mob. The oll politician bait and switch routine. Oh yeah an agreement can work, especially when the deck is favorably stacked.

What's with this Illuminati conspiracy nonsense?

I helped forge the Shady Goblin agreement: I was there for every roll (and every failed attempt to get everyone to roll prior), and there were no "certain players who had stakes" ... unless you count me (with my stake being "clickfests suck and I don't want to do one") or the twenty other people whose "stake" was similarly wanting to do the quest, and not wanting to do a clickfest. To the contrary, there were multiple players interested in keeping the clickfest (Siryado being the most notable), and they made it extremely difficult to get the roll started.

What's the most classic is no player agreement for lodizal.

You're basically saying clickfests are classic, and I strongly disagree. In the entire year of 2001 I highly doubt there was ever ... even once ... two (let alone ten) people sitting around at Lodi's spawn point, clicking constantly, for two hours. It simply did not happen in 2001, and there is nothing classic about it except the server mechanics.

If an agreement is really generated. All the members of the council that design the agreement need to Vetted thoroughly for their interests.

Again with the P99 Illuminati :rolleyes: There's no "council" for any agreement, just players trying to make it happen, and their "interests" are that this is a game we all want to play.

By definition here on P99 player agreements require consensus. That means everyone who would have clicked has to agree to roll instead. There is no possible way for "our evil overlords" to force anyone to do anything in that system: the only way an agreement can be forged is if every participant wants it.

[Erati]

I like the suggestion that Lodizal gets the Guardian Kozz treatment and spawns somewhere randomly on his path instead of the same dirty, Robthe-stained spot.

it just devolves slowly into pets on each spawn node as theyre plotted and discovered

Kozz needs 20+ more spawn nodes and Lodi should be random all over Iceclad cept the island w the rings.

[Pretzelle]

People racing to the random icebergs for him would be great. Ranger and bard tandems, like racing for Faydedar.

[Baler]

@loramin There is no P99 Illuminati. There are just people who have more information than you and I. How we function is generally irrelevant to them. It's an ecosystem inside an ecosytem.
There are key players in the game and I'm not talking about everquest. And for the tinfoil people, no it has nothing to do with buying or selling.

[Daldolma]

Randomizing his pop points anywhere along his path is not classic. That’s significant interference and changes the nature of the mob to require either massive groups to lock down multiple pop points or a tracker. You’ll still have neckbeards socking the camp during the window.

Just make his pop times totally random with no windows. If people want to sit on the pop point indefinitely without any guarantee that they’ll even see Lodi pop, let them. It sufficiently disincentivizes spawn camping to make it not worth anyone’s time. Especially when you could sit there 48 straight hours only to lose FTE to some dude who lucked out and decided to show up and sit at spawn point for 45 minutes.

[Freakish]

Wait what? People definitely knew about Lodizal cycle on live. I even get my own server RnF thread because of him.

What happened was me + rogue were on ice, knew the window and were checking to see if he would skip. Competition showed up. Lodi spawns, competition wins but we KS. However rogue and I had been there since window opened so in the public eyes of the server we had it legitimately because there is no way to know who got first when you're killing him, and even if they did get first hit we had obviously been camping it.

Nobody was proactively checking logs mid fight to see who got fte. We took the loot, went away and the other group just got laughed at on ezboards when they cried about it. GMs didn't care and 18 hours later we were that much closer to a new expansion and the loot being obsolete.

[loramin]

@loramin There is no P99 Illuminati. There are just people who have more information than you and I. How we function is generally irrelevant to them. It's an ecosystem inside an ecosytem.
There are key players in the game and I'm not talking about everquest. And for the tinfoil people, no it has nothing to do with buying or selling.

I guess I misunderstood your post then ... although to be honest I'm not sure I understand this one either. I assume by "people who have more information than you and I" you mean someone besides the staff?

[Kich867]

I guess I misunderstood your post then ... although to be honest I'm not sure I understand this one either. I assume by "people who have more information than you and I" you mean someone besides the staff?

How do you not understand? There's "key people" who "have more information than you or I". It's not an illuminati though. Just a list of people I can't name who know things I won't ever mention out of...something. Fear? Probably not, the game is 20 years old and the private server has been around for ages and if you needed a new persona you could just make a new account after outing these people.

But god, anyways, get with the program loramin. There's key people out there. Very key.

[LazyHydras]

How do you not understand? There's "key people" who "have more information than you or I". It's not an illuminati though. Just a list of people I can't name who know things I won't ever mention out of...something. Fear? Probably not, the game is 20 years old and the private server has been around for ages and if you needed a new persona you could just make a new account after outing these people.

But god, anyways, get with the program loramin. There's key people out there. Very key.

Hwat?

[DMN]

How do you not understand? There's "key people" who "have more information than you or I". It's not an illuminati though. Just a list of people I can't name who know things I won't ever mention out of...something. Fear? Probably not, the game is 20 years old and the private server has been around for ages and if you needed a new persona you could just make a new account after outing these people.

But god, anyways, get with the program loramin. There's key people out there. Very key.

Bruh. Key peepholes are way more important, illhumorednazi or not.

[Jimjam]

I’m gonna risk everything here and come out and say it. He’s talking about Sirken’s elfwife. The all knowing mistress of the timers.

[aaezil]

Kunark and Velious didn't last for years,
It wasn't the titanium client,
There was no p99 wiki.

Classic? My argument with this post is unfair I'll admit but.. not classic.. Welcome to Project 1999 blue.

A more proactive use of time regarding lodizal would be to prepare ideas for solving this problem on green. Which may, sadly, be /list

I know for a fact that shady goblin & the dwarf in EW agreements are rooted with certain players who had stakes/interests in those mobs. Not average players who just want a shot at a mob. The oll politician bait and switch routine. Oh yeah an agreement can work, especially when the deck is favorably stacked.

What's the most classic is no player agreement for lodizal.

---
If an agreement is really generated. All the members of the council that design the agreement need to Vetted thoroughly for their interests.

Nope if it was most classic then the yellow fte shout would have been removed

[LazyHydras]

Guys. It doesn't matter. Whatever you do, all your Lodi will belong to us. Either that, or Furoars on Bearnuts with his autofire keyboard.

[kaizersoze]

Great question! I’m sure there are almost as many answers to this question as there are players.

Here is my answer: Because a complaint about instances is they reduce the world by removing community, whereas consensus and cooperation is the opposite of that.

If by removing community you mean people can schedule raids and have lives outside of socking for 16 hours just to not kill said mob, yeah, it removes the community.

Instances came because the people who were getting paid running it realized people could not feasibly sustain healthy relationships, stable jobs, and poopsock 17 hours a day and wake up at 3am as a functioning adult who pays their sub fees. Lets not forget there was still open world bosses once instances came out, but a single guild monopolizing everything also ceased to exist. None of that really matters since this is free though.

[LazyHydras]

If by removing community you mean people can schedule raids and have lives outside of socking for 16 hours just to not kill said mob, yeah, it removes the community.

Instances came because the people who were getting paid running it realized people could not feasibly sustain healthy relationships, stable jobs, and poopsock 17 hours a day and wake up at 3am as a functioning adult who pays their sub fees. Lets not forget there was still open world bosses once instances came out, but a single guild monopolizing everything also ceased to exist. None of that really matters since this is free though.

Very good point. I think that MMORPGs since the year 2000 have proven that you can have instanced raid content while still maintaining a level of hardcore play that is not "casual friendly." Classic WoW was evidence of this with the difficulty of Naxxramas.

[EkotTunnel]

Just remove those stupid windows, sit and wait is so stupid on a server like this, just let it pop and can do other stuff after faster =).

[planarity]

your points about ping and autofire are good ones, and anyone who doesn't recognize it is stupid. A roll may not be the best solution, but if you want to get any sort of agreement on that (or any other proposed scheme) here is what you have to do:

Before lodi spawns, convince all the lodi campers you can to use the roll method. When it spawns, if one of the people who agreed to the roll gets the FTE, then all the rollers kill it and respect the roll. Everyone will still have to try to FTE until you can get everyone to agree.


Yeah, it's a bit silly that people can show up on just their 9th low-lvl alt to win scout, although the point about them not being able to kill it on their own isn't a great one. It's a duoable mob. I'm sure I could find enough help to kill to it from friends/guildys once I won the turnin (or the roll if the other rollers weren't expected to help). The current scout system isn't perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than clickfest.

[Uuruk]

Velious has been out for 5 years dude

[Lothisu]

Serious question, what is the rule against kiting Lodizal for around 10 minutes? Nephinine an Officer in Dawn Believers kited Lodizal for around 10 minutes this AM while he waited for Jailen (shaman) to wakeup and get ported over. I know this was brought up ages ago but this seems excessive. Allowing someone to kite for a couple minutes is reasonable but 10 can't possibly be acceptable. Have the GM's actually given the approval to do this?

[Pretzelle]

Serious question, what is the rule against kiting Lodizal for around 10 minutes? Nephinine an Officer in Dawn Believers kited Lodizal for around 10 minutes this AM while he waited for Jailen (shaman) to wakeup and get ported over. I know this was brought up ages ago but this seems excessive. Allowing someone to kite for a couple minutes is reasonable but 10 can't possibly be acceptable. Have the GM's actually given the approval to do this?

A few months ago it was arbitrated by Medris that you must be actively working to debuff Lodi if you're kiting. You can't just run him around.

[Lothisu]

A few months ago it was arbitrated by Medris that you must be actively working to debuff Lodi if you're kiting. You can't just run him around.

Did Medris say that on the P99 boards or ingame? Do you have a link to that or logs? @Medris What say you?!

[LazyHydras]

Serious question, what is the rule against kiting Lodizal for around 10 minutes? Nephinine an Officer in Dawn Believers kited Lodizal for around 10 minutes this AM while he waited for Jailen (shaman) to wakeup and get ported over. I know this was brought up ages ago but this seems excessive. Allowing someone to kite for a couple minutes is reasonable but 10 can't possibly be acceptable. Have the GM's actually given the approval to do this?

LOL. I kited him for literally 2 minutes while our shaman arrived. No need to use hyperbole. If you'd like to take this issue to the GMs and quibble over the time, I have my OBS recording. Do you have yours?

[LazyHydras]

Oh, sorry, my mistake. THREE minutes. My logs show from 7:32 to 7:35 I had it alone and was kiting it and casting engulfing darkness on it. So, please, stop with the hyperbole. I am not the problem here. The one individual using autofire keyboard and two-boxing his warrior to get Lodizal so he can fund his guild with Lodi shells and belts is the problem.

Besides, I would not have kited him around if that were not the precedent set. That you have like 5 minutes to run him around and snare him.

[Lothisu]

Again I'm just trying to find out whats acceptable. I know Bearnuts is the real problem here. Running around casting engulfing darkness is definitely a debuff yes but once you landed your debuff what were you doing to actively kill it? Cast more of the same debuff? You know you were just stalling casting a "debuff" to stay within the guidelines set by Medris even though you had no way to actually kill it until your guild shaman got out of bed and ported over lol.

Bottom line is whether you were kiting for 30 seconds, 2 minutes, 10 minutes or a hour, you shouldn't be FTEing something unless you have a kill force there. Not sure why the GMs have determined this to be acceptable when no other mob is like this. Nephinine i personally don't have anything against you for what it's worth, just was a little confused as to how that was acceptable this AM.

[LazyHydras]

Again I'm just trying to find out whats acceptable. I know Bearnuts is the real problem here. Running around casting engulfing darkness is definitely a debuff yes but once you landed your debuff what were you doing to actively kill it? Cast more of the same debuff? You know you were just stalling casting a "debuff" to stay within the guidelines set by Medris even though you had no way to actually kill it until your guild shaman got out of bed and ported over lol.

Bottom line is whether you were kiting for 30 seconds, 2 minutes, 10 minutes or a hour, you shouldn't be FTEing something unless you have a kill force there. Not sure why the GMs have determined this to be acceptable when no other mob is like this. Nephinine i personally don't have anything against you for what it's worth, just was a little confused as to how that was acceptable this AM.

We had a kill force there. Kanshu was sitting in the water and fell asleep at his keyboard because he was probably up all night, lol. Nothing I could do about that except call in the cavalry. I did not know he fell asleep at the keyboard until I was already running it around with darkness.

[bradsamma]

100% on board with making lodi a ring8/shady style roll.

[Demonstorm]

Just autofire it like robthe, foroar, etc. who regularly died after fte without even moving.

Course they do. becuase you cant turn that off fast enough.. OBS that shit and they get banned permanently.

[baakss]

We had a kill force there. Kanshu was sitting in the water and fell asleep at his keyboard because he was probably up all night, lol. Nothing I could do about that except call in the cavalry. I did not know he fell asleep at the keyboard until I was already running it around with darkness.

Uhh... you could actually just... drop the mob?

If you're not doing anything to kill it, and admittedly "waiting on cavalry". That's a drop situation.

[LazyHydras]

Uhh... you could actually just... drop the mob?

If you're not doing anything to kill it, and admittedly "waiting on cavalry". That's a drop situation.

I'll let the GMs tell me to drop it, not Furoars aka Robthe. Is it a drop situation? Because I've been doing Lodi for a few years now and EVERY single time someone has it and doesn't have the force, they have a few minutes leeway to drag it around before they need to drop.

[Muggens]

As a filthy casual I voted for the roll option, but giving it some thought I cant say I support a roll system.

Were would it take us? In a few years will all attractive mobs be "roll offs"? Thats not a good way to go for the server.

Cant really use the autofire argument as thats not legal and should be policed by the GMs. If autofire is not allowed, it should be reported/policed, not change around how the game is to be played.
(I dont camp Lodi, and have only bought a map piece once)

[loramin]

As a filthy casual I voted for the roll option, but giving it some thought I cant say I support a roll system.

Were would it take us? In a few years will all attractive mobs be "roll offs"? Thats not a good way to go for the server.

Cant really use the autofire argument as thats not legal and should be policed by the GMs. If autofire is not allowed, it should be reported/policed, not change around how the game is to be played.
(I dont camp Lodi, and have only bought a map piece once)

That's the core problem here: there are no good options here. The only one I could see is if the staff added some sort of /list-like feature ... but of course they have lots of other things they'd rather do I'm sure.

Until they do, we can only choose the "least bad" of some bad options. Rolls do have some downsides ... but to me (and most people I think) they are far better than the alternative of clickfests and Autofire.

And as for saying "the staff should just magically get better at catching cheaters" ... that's not a (real world) answer: it's avoiding the fact that we have two bad choices by wishing for an imaginary third one. I don't think the staff are going to get any better at detecting click software if they haven't figured it out after a decade.

[kaizersoze]

Make lodizal summon at 100% 2020. Make him like the dragons. Bring kill force or get wrecked trying to kite.

[baakss]

I'll let the GMs tell me to drop it, not Furoars aka Robthe. Is it a drop situation? Because I've been doing Lodi for a few years now and EVERY single time someone has it and doesn't have the force, they have a few minutes leeway to drag it around before they need to drop.

You want a GM to intervene every single time you illegally kite Lodi?

Or you could just have some integrity and drop the mob when you're cheating.

And I'm not interested in what Robthe does, what "EVERY single time someone" does, or anything like that.

The rules say you're not supposed to kite unless you're actively trying to slow, and you had no slower. That's a drop situation for anyone who has respect for the server rules.

[LazyHydras]

You want a GM to intervene every single time you illegally kite Lodi?

Or you could just have some integrity and drop the mob when you're cheating.

And I'm not interested in what Robthe does, what "EVERY single time someone" does, or anything like that.

The rules say you're not supposed to kite unless you're actively trying to slow, and you had no slower. That's a drop situation for anyone who has respect for the server rules.

Sorry, where is it illegal? How often have you done Lodi? Because I see people kite him around for up to 5 minutes all the time. And I was casting engulfing darkness on him.

[aaezil]

Lodi isnt a raid mob. Kite until your force shows up is fine.

[baakss]

Sorry, where is it illegal? How often have you done Lodi? Because I see people kite him around for up to 5 minutes all the time. And I was casting engulfing darkness on him.

The GM's have stated the rule, and you obviously know what the rule is as you're providing a defense for violating it.

As Lothisu pointed out earlier, you're dancing trying to place 'any' debuff on the mob so as to seem like you're active. But the truth is you're just stalling for your slower.

Your defense to all this is "Well, other people have done it, so I guess it's okay for me!"

One can only conclude that you don't care about the rule because you're unlikely to be caught and punished by the GM in real-time. And it's not like you're worried about losing respect or credibility -- you had none to begin with.

[baakss]

Lodi isnt a raid mob. Kite until your force shows up is fine.

This is false. If a GM happens to be online and responds to a petition, they will make you drop it if you're not actively trying to slow it. I've personally seen that happen.

[kaizersoze]

as mace windu once said, kite lodi and

[LazyHydras]

This is false. If a GM happens to be online and responds to a petition, they will make you drop it if you're not actively trying to slow it. I've personally seen that happen.

I don't have time to neckbeard lawyerquest with you. Lodi isn't a raid mob. Stop taking this so seriously. We had FTE, we had a kill force there. Kill force happened to fall asleep at the wheel, so we got another kill force and killed it. I'm sure the GMs are ready and willing to suspend us for it.


ITT: DB kills turtle. Other guilds upset that DB kills turtle more than them. More on this at 11.

[LazyHydras]

The GM's have stated the rule, and you obviously know what the rule is as you're providing a defense for violating it.

As Lothisu pointed out earlier, you're dancing trying to place 'any' debuff on the mob so as to seem like you're active. But the truth is you're just stalling for your slower.

Your defense to all this is "Well, other people have done it, so I guess it's okay for me!"

One can only conclude that you don't care about the rule because you're unlikely to be caught and punished by the GM in real-time. And it's not like you're worried about losing respect or credibility -- you had none to begin with.


Whoa-ho-hoaaaaaaa. LOOK OUT. We got a badass over here. Umadbro?



edit: When did this turn into an RnF thread? If you have this much of a problem with what I did, send a petition.

[baakss]

I don't have time to neckbeard lawyerquest with you. Lodi isn't a raid mob. Stop taking this so seriously. We had FTE, we had a kill force there. Kill force happened to fall asleep at the wheel, so we got another kill force and killed it. I'm sure the GMs are ready and willing to suspend us for it.


ITT: DB kills turtle. Other guilds upset that DB kills turtle more than them. More on this at 11.

TLDR:

We did the wrong thing, but Lodi, which is basically Dawn Believers Vulak, is so trivial he's not worth arguing about, except that our guild just spent the last 8 pages whining about Robthe beating us on FTE's.

[LazyHydras]

TLDR:

We did the wrong thing, but Lodi, which is basically Dawn Believers Vulak, is so trivial he's not worth arguing about, except that our guild just spent the last 8 pages bitching about Robthe beating us on FTE's.

I don't believe I did anything wrong. So, no.

[aaezil]

This is false. If a GM happens to be online and responds to a petition, they will make you drop it if you're not actively trying to slow it. I've personally seen that happen.

Obvious noob detected. Lodi not a raid mob.

[LazyHydras]

Obvious noob detected. Lodi not a raid mob.

Normally I'd say you are correct, but clearly he's a "noob" in a big boy guild selling Spirit Wracked Urn MQs and having played on this server for at least 6 years. Which begs the question: Why are his jimmies so rustled over a turtle FTE?

[baakss]

Normally I'd say you are correct, but clearly he's a "noob" in a big boy guild selling Spirit Wracked Urn MQs and having played on this server for at least 6 years. Which begs the question: Why are his jimmies so rustled over a turtle FTE?

Because you don't believe the rules apply to you. And when you're backed into a corner, your excuse quickly becomes, "It's just Lodi."

And because I don't abide liars:


LOL. I kited him for literally 2 minutes while our shaman arrived. No need to use hyperbole. If you'd like to take this issue to the GMs and quibble over the time, I have my OBS recording. Do you have yours?


[Tue Jun 02 07:26:06 2020] Lodizal engages Nephinine!
[Tue Jun 02 07:34:08 2020] Nephinine says out of character, 'just waiting on backup'
[Tue Jun 02 07:35:34 2020] Jailen says out of character, 'tryna get it slowed'
[Tue Jun 02 07:35:54 2020] Jailen begins to cast a spell.

It was 9 minutes and 50 seconds until your "backup" cast his first spell.

And you ooc "Waiting for backup" 8 minutes after the engage message.

And yes, to answer your question, we have fraps of your 10 minute kite.

[loramin]

https://i.imgur.com/GFqxxSY.gif

LazyHydras digging their own grave in this thread.

[LazyHydras]

Because you don't believe the rules apply to you. And when you're backed into a corner, your excuse quickly becomes, "It's just Lodi."

And because I don't abide liars:



[Tue Jun 02 07:26:06 2020] Lodizal engages Nephinine!
[Tue Jun 02 07:34:08 2020] Nephinine says out of character, 'just waiting on backup'
[Tue Jun 02 07:35:34 2020] Jailen says out of character, 'tryna get it slowed'
[Tue Jun 02 07:35:54 2020] Jailen begins to cast a spell.

It was 9 minutes and 50 seconds until your "backup" cast his first spell.

And you ooc "Waiting for backup" 8 minutes after the engage message.

And yes, to answer your question, we have fraps of your 10 minute kite.

Uh, i have my own fraps. Good try, though. From the time I got FTE message, someone from AG was dragging my mob around so I couldn't do anything with it. By the time I was able to catch up to my OWN FTE and cast anything on it (thanks, dudes) Ragu and I were getting it under control. But, hey, continue to get your jimmies rustled over turtle. I have my own logs and I have my own fraps, so I don't particularly care about what you think you have.

[baakss]

Uh, i have my own fraps. Good try, though. From the time I got FTE message, someone from AG was dragging my mob around so I couldn't do anything with it. By the time I was able to catch up to my OWN FTE and cast anything on it (thanks, dudes) Ragu and I were getting it under control. But, hey, continue to get your jimmies rustled over turtle. I have my own logs and I have my own fraps, so I don't particularly care about what you think you have.

And now the story changes.

First, you were casting darkness or some other junk debuff the whole time.

Next, "I've seen other people kite a couple of minutes, so this is okay."

And finally, when logs are provided, "Well, yeah, but someone else interfered."

Funny how you don't mention this at all until timestamps are provided.

It took your backup shaman 8 minutes to reach the zone, and 9 minutes and 50 seconds to start actually casting a spell. You can dance all you like, but that fact does not change.

[LazyHydras]

And now the story changes.

First, you were casting darkness or some other junk debuff the whole time.

Next, "I've seen other people kite a couple of minutes, so this is okay."

And finally, when logs are provided, "Well, yeah, but someone else interfered."

Funny how you don't mention this at all until timestamps are provided.

It took your backup shaman 8 minutes to reach the zone, and 9 minutes and 50 seconds to start actually casting a spell. You can dance all you like, but that fact does not change.

Let's go through it point by point.

#1. Darkness is not a junk debuff and, indeed, I was casting it.

#2. It took my backup shaman 3 minutes to reach the zone. The first 5 minutes were spent trying to track down my turtle and actually get aggro back. By the time I got aggro back, I realized that Kanshu was asleep at his keyboard so I had to get Jailen to come over.

#3. Once I FINALLY got aggro, it was between 7:32 and 7:35 (then Jailen showed up) like I said before.



And...finally...#4. I'm not lawyerquesting with you over the forums. This is not RnF. Work harder to get FTE next time, my friend.

[baakss]

I am not the problem here. The one individual using autofire keyboard and two-boxing his warrior to get Lodizal so he can fund his guild with Lodi shells and belts is the problem..



Work harder to get FTE next time, my friend.

When Robthe wins FTE, you exclaim, "He's autofiring!"

When you win FTE, you brag, "Work harder next time!"

You are both a sore winner and a sore loser.

[LazyHydras]

When Robthe wins FTE, you exclaim, "He's autofiring!"

When you win FTE, you brag, "Work harder next time!"

You are both a sore winner and a sore loser.

LOL. Getting FTE while afk with a turtle beating on you = Autofire if I ever saw it.

Are you Robthe aka Bearnuts? Or are you one of the AG sore losers? Just curious. I actually have to mash buttons to FTE, so that's why I am telling you to work harder next time instead of trying to lawyerquest on the forums, Neckbeardicus Maximus.

[kaizersoze]

Man this is getting juicy enough to want to move it to RNF over this DB and mystery person feud.

[LazyHydras]

Man this is getting juicy enough to want to move it to RNF over this DB and mystery person feud.

Requesting immediate transfer to RnF, plz.

[Lothisu]

Homelands fte and kill today was a thing of beauty.

[LazyHydras]

Homelands fte and kill today was a thing of beauty.

You lucky I wasn't there. ;)

[indiscriminate_hater]

Simulated turtles are important guys

[jejukin]

So for those of you arguing about raid mob / not raid mob, can kite, can't kite... There you go. Edited out the toon's name since it wasn't my chat.

https://imgur.com/BLhuyhA

edit: trying to get the chat image to show up from imgur. grrr. https://imgur.com/BLhuyhA

On the original topic, I think an agreement like a /roll is a great idea to improve Lodizal for the reasons stated, but 20 seconds is way too long. If it takes you 20 seconds to roll, you're AFK. Allowing 20 seconds means folks on solid state drives will relog to roll on other toons after they roll low. A single minute should be sufficient, just like ring 8 roll. Shoot, scout roll is done and called in like 30 seconds I think. 20 seconds would be way too long.

[Demonstorm]

When Robthe wins FTE, you exclaim, "He's autofiring!"

When you win FTE, you brag, "Work harder next time!"

You are both a sore winner and a sore loser.

Easy to tell if they auto fire.. just trade them coin.. if they have that turned off they are auto firing :)

[Arvan]

Simulated turtles are important guys

Emulation of a 30 year old simulated turtle

[Zoggren]

Getting my Lodi map piece was an all time low of an experience for me on this server. I didn't play for weeks after I got it. It really brought out the worst in the server playerbase. Let's eliminate this however possible. A roll is a good start. I do like the cascading loot pick roll idea much better though. More chance at loot = more fun for everyone.

[mycoolrausch]

Lodi should have a huge route that covers most of the zone, and spawn randomly on it. This would simulate the experience of hunting him on classic a lot more than some guy with 20 ping autofiring at spawn.

[Dreenk317]

But, but then we'd miss out on the gold that is THIS (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=282602&highlight=bloodguard)

[Ripqozko]

Lodi is fine , move to resolved.

[icedwards]

More chance at loot = more fun for everyone.

You're not from around these parts, are you?

[Domni]

Just make the spawn a completely random time and random loc in the zone. Also make him untrackable so you end up just wandering up on him, like it used to be in classic.