Wiki discussions

[Sabin76]

I've been revamping the Najena page as I've been hunting there and have a couple questions. Is there a place here dedicated to that kind of thing, or do I have to wait for someone to actually go to the page, see that it's changed, be interested enough in that change to check the discussion page, and then (finally) have an answer to my question that I post there?

My biggest question is how to edit the generated tables for mobs, etc. It seems to pull from the respective pages, but updating those did not (yet?) update the table's entries.

If anyone could help either answer my question, or point me to the place where these things are discussed, I'd appreciate it.

[loramin]

I've been revamping the Najena page as I've been hunting there and have a couple questions. Is there a place here dedicated to that kind of thing, or do I have to wait for someone to actually go to the page, see that it's changed, be interested enough in that change to check the discussion page, and then (finally) have an answer to my question that I post there?

I don't think anyone is likely to find your question, or at least not anytime soon, if you put in a Discussion page. I've found the forum is the best place to "talk wiki", so your post here seems perfect to me.

My biggest question is how to edit the generated tables for mobs, etc. It seems to pull from the respective pages, but updating those did not (yet?) update the table's entries.

If anyone could help either answer my question, or point me to the place where these things are discussed, I'd appreciate it.

I really need to make a "how the wiki works" page someday. For now, the quick version is that those dynamic tables are based on categories: if an item/NPC has "[[Category: Najena]]" at the bottom, it will show up in that dynamic table on the Najena page.

There's a lag though, so if you added the category to a mob now, it might take a day or two before it shows up on the Najena page.

[Sabin76]

There's a lag though, so if you added the category to a mob now, it might take a day or two before it shows up on the Najena page.

That's what I suspected. Thanks for the response!

[Sabin76]

Next question... for mobs that spawn in "various" zones like the large and greater skeletons, it doesn't seem like the wiki entry is particularly useful.

No one venturing into Najena is going to encounter a level 7 greater skeleton, for example.

I see there are some mobs (tentacle terrors) that have separate entries for the different zones they are in. Perhaps when the number of zones is larger than 3 it gets a bit cumbersome, but I think that's a better way to do it. The added benefit is that they will actually be included in the auto-generated tables.

Seems to me the best way to be to go through it zone by zone, instead of mob by mob. So if I create pages for large and greater skeletons for Najena, I will leave the other pages up until I or someone else goes to those other zones and creates more specific pages for them.

[Cen]

I edit things on wiki to correct or add whenever possible, but some of the really ludecrous genius programming level command stuff I just can't handle adding in, so im better at just editing things slightly.

[Baler]

I edit things on wiki to correct or add whenever possible, but some of the really ludecrous genius programming level command stuff I just can't handle adding in, so im better at just editing things slightly.

You can learn more about the software the P99 wiki uses here https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki

:)
*Note - Not every extension under the sun is available on the p99 wiki

[loramin]

Next question... for mobs that spawn in "various" zones like the large and greater skeletons, it doesn't seem like the wiki entry is particularly useful.

No one venturing into Najena is going to encounter a level 7 greater skeleton, for example.

I see there are some mobs (tentacle terrors) that have separate entries for the different zones they are in. Perhaps when the number of zones is larger than 3 it gets a bit cumbersome, but I think that's a better way to do it. The added benefit is that they will actually be included in the auto-generated tables.

Seems to me the best way to be to go through it zone by zone, instead of mob by mob. So if I create pages for large and greater skeletons for Najena, I will leave the other pages up until I or someone else goes to those other zones and creates more specific pages for them.

This is a fairly common issue in the wiki. What I like to do for mobs like that is basically what you said: I make copies of the mob for each zone.

http://wiki.project1999.com/Ancient%20Cyclops is an example where I did that (there used to just be a single AC entry in the wiki, and it had mixed details for all the ACs). You (or any wikieditor) can easily do the same if you want.

I edit things on wiki to correct or add whenever possible, but some of the really ludecrous genius programming level command stuff I just can't handle adding in, so im better at just editing things slightly.

Someday someone (probably me) needs to flesh out http://wiki.project1999.com/Editing. Unfortunately even if you learn all the "MediaWiki tricks", the wiki also has a bunch of custom templates people like Ravhin and I have made, and they tend to be poorly documented.

[Sabin76]

OK, so how do you delete a page? I created "A skeleton (Najena)", then realized I wanted the 's' in 'skeleton' capitalized so I created "A Skeleton (Najena)" and copypasta'd the contents. When I went back to the lower case one, I couldn't see a way to delete it.

[loramin]

OK, so how do you delete a page? I created "A skeleton (Najena)", then realized I wanted the 's' in 'skeleton' capitalized so I created "A Skeleton (Najena)" and copypasta'd the contents. When I went back to the lower case one, I couldn't see a way to delete it.

If you're logged in, you should have tabs at the top for "edit", then "history", then "delete" (and then some others), and clicking "delete" starts the process.

[Sabin76]

I'm signed in, but there's no delete tab for me. All I have is Page / Discussion / Edit / Move / Watch.

[loramin]

I'm signed in, but there's no delete tab for me. All I have is Page / Discussion / Edit / Move / Watch.

Huh, how strange. I just deleted it, but I really didn't think that required admin status to do :confused:

[Baler]

Only admins can delete pages for good reason.
1. In case someone griefs the wiki by making bad edits before an admin catches them and deletes the proof.
2. So people can't grief the wiki by deleting useful or many pages.

As much as I've wanted to be able to delete pages such as ones I've created that turned out fruitless or a mistake. It's a far better system to tag the page for deletion and contact an admin to remove the page. This prevents a lot of griefing on the wiki.

Further reading for those interested https://wiki.project1999.com/Articles_For_Deletion

Do Not Take It Personally / Be Tolerant Of Others
Advice to live by :)

[loramin]

Only admins can delete pages for good reason.
1. In case someone griefs the wiki by making bad edits before an admin catches them and deletes the proof.
2. So people can't grief the wiki by deleting useful or many pages.

As much as I've wanted to be able to delete pages such as ones I've created that turned out fruitless or a mistake. It's a far better system to tag the page for deletion and contact an admin to remove the page. This prevents a lot of griefing on the wiki.

Further reading for those interested https://wiki.project1999.com/Articles_For_Deletion


Advice to live by :)

Huh, guess I still have some wiki learnin' to do myself! Having had admin privileges for so long (for other reasons) I forgot deletion was part of the shtick.

... also apparently I now have homework (a category of pages to review for deletion) :(

[aubie]

Any reason multiple WIKI pages were blanked by a user named SuckIt?

[loramin]

Any reason multiple WIKI pages were blanked by a user named SuckIt?

Yes: the reason is that someone out there is very immature :(

I have blocked that user and reverted the 10 changes they made (well, 9; good job Azerakiss for fixing the Zones page). In the future if anyone observers similar "wiki vandalism", please PM me (or if you forget who I am, just start a post about it and I'll likely see it).

[Sabin76]

Next question: For maps with multiple levels (like Najena) the mob /loc is incorrectly displayed if it's not on the main level. A good example is the Dark-Boned skeleton, which I thought was in the room with next to the TTs near the entrance to the dungeon proper when it's actually downstairs near Officer Grush, or in the Jail with Moosh. Would it be better to have the correct /loc, but incorrect placement on the map, or incorrect /loc but actually reflect where the mobs are on the map?

Personally, I'd rather have the latter as I don't use the locs to try and actually locate the mobs, but I wanted to see before making those kinds of edits.

[loramin]

Next question: For maps with multiple levels (like Najena) the mob /loc is incorrectly displayed if it's not on the main level. A good example is the Dark-Boned skeleton, which I thought was in the room with next to the TTs near the entrance to the dungeon proper when it's actually downstairs near Officer Grush, or in the Jail with Moosh. Would it be better to have the correct /loc, but incorrect placement on the map, or incorrect /loc but actually reflect where the mobs are on the map?

Personally, I'd rather have the latter as I don't use the locs to try and actually locate the mobs, but I wanted to see before making those kinds of edits.

So, there's two issues. First, in order for any level of any zone to show an X on the map, that zone/level has to be "loc mapped (https://wiki.project1999.com/Category:Loc_Mapped)". Not every zone is, and for the multi-level zones, not every level is. If you'd like to "loc map" a zone/level, the wiki has instructions (https://wiki.project1999.com/Adding_a_Loc_Map).

But then even if a zone/level is mapped, if it's a multi-level zone, and the mob is not on the first/ground floor, the mob's loc needs to say what level it's on: otherwise the wiki will assume the mob is on the first floor. I tried to write the code to be as accommodating as possible and work with any reasonable language wiki editors might use, so (for instance) you can say "0th level" or "basement" or "underground":

if (containsAnyNumber(text, 0, 'th') || containsAny(text, 'basement', 'underground', 'tunnel')) return levels[0];
if (containsAnyNumber(text, 1, 'st') || containsAny(text, 'one', 'first', 'ground')) return levels[1];
if (containsAnyNumber(text, 2, 'nd') || containsAny(text, 'two', 'second')) return levels[2];
if (containsAnyNumber(text, 3, 'rd') || containsAny(text, 'three', 'third')) return levels[3];
if (containsAnyNumber(text, 4, 'th') || containsAny(text, 'four', 'fourth')) return levels[4];
if (containsAnyNumber(text, 5, 'th') || containsAny(text, 'five', 'fifth')) return levels[5];
if (containsAnyNumber(text, 6, 'th') || containsAny(text, 'six', 'sixth')) return levels[6];
if (containsAnyNumber(text, 7, 'th') || containsAny(text, 'seven', 'seventh')) return levels[7];
if (containsAnyNumber(text, 8, 'th') || containsAny(text, 'eight', 'eighth')) return levels[8];
if (containsAnyNumber(text, 9, 'th') || containsAny(text, 'nine', 'ninth')) return levels[9];

But that still leaves the question: for a multi-level zone, if a mob has no level specified, what's the best thing to do? We could just show an error, but then any mob on the first level (which tends to be the most populated level) wouldn't work even though it could.

Instead, I opted to assume every mob was on the first level, but then that leaves mobs on 2nd+ floor showing up wrong ... until someone adds their level to their loc.

Since the ultimate goal is to get every mob's level in their loc, so that you can see where every mob is, and since defaulting to level 1 lets lots of mobs work without extra editing, I figured that was worth the cost of some 2nd+ level mobs showing a misleading "X" (in a way that's a "feature" that encourages wiki editors to add levels to mob's locs :)).

But it does have a cost (of some mobs showing up wrong), so I admit it's not perfect and I'm open to suggestions.

[loramin]

P.S. Specifically in the Dark-Boned Skeleton's case, we have the main/ground level of Unrest "loc-mapped", but we do not have the other levels mapped. In addition, the DBS has three locs, and none of them have any level info (eg. "34% @ (560, -63) 2nd floor, 34% @ (662, 28) basement, 34% @ (538, -54) basement").

For the wiki to show the DBS correctly someone needs to loc map the other levels, and add the levels to the DBS's three locs. Until someone does that, the wiki has two options (that I can see): not show DBS's "X" on the map ... but also not show the X for any 1st-floor mob in Unrest, even though we can ... or show a confusingly incorrect "X" and hope someone is irritated by it enough to do what I outlined above :) Admittedly neither option is ideal.

P.P.S. And don't forget: up until a few months ago (when many volunteers helped me "loc map the zones") the wiki had zero Xs for any mob in any zone. So just keep in mind also that this is a relatively new feature, and even with quirks I think it's a lot better than having to use your finger on the map to find the loc, as you had to before.

[Sabin76]

I would not be against helping you locmap the other floors of this dungeon and get those locs corrected. Perhaps when I don't have so much Lagunitas Imperial Stout in me...

[loramin]

I would not be against helping you locmap the other floors of this dungeon and get those locs corrected. Perhaps when I don't have so much Lagunitas Imperial Stout in me...

That's awesome, except ... I just noticed something:

https://wiki.project1999.com/images/Unrestmanor.jpg

There's no numbers on those coordinates, so there's no way to "loc map" it :( To add those numbers someone would need to run around the zone to those places, using /loc to mark the coordinates of various points, and then use that data to add numbered "loc lines" (like the main map has) ... or someone would need to find a new map, with locs on it.

[Sabin76]

Well, the good news is that's not Najena, which is where I'm working on things right now. It does seem that the map is ready for the floors to simply be inputted, so I'll test that out later today.

[loramin]

Well, the good news is that's not Najena, which is where I'm working on things right now. It does seem that the map is ready for the floors to simply be inputted, so I'll test that out later today.

LOL!

Somehow when I went looking for the skeleton I found https://wiki.project1999.com/Dark_boned_skeleton (note the space after "Dark"; not a hyphen) ... which is in Unrest ... instead of https://wiki.project1999.com/Dark-boned_skeleton ... in Najena. Both are undead-filled lower-level zones, so they somehow blurred together in my head :D

[loramin]

BTW, if it helps here's the code for Najena's main level:

{
height: 529,
image: 'Najena.jpg',
maxX: 750,
maxY: 500,
minX: -250,
minY: -250,
interval: 250,
width: 541,
zeroX: 368,
zeroY: 220,
zoomX: 0.376,
zoomY: 0.375
}

[Sabin76]

OK, so I tried to put Moosh on the basement level the other day and was having no luck. It at least appears that the basement level is loc mapped, but perhaps I just couldn't figure out the syntax. Is there an example of a zone that has levels where the mobs are correctly mapped to the particular level? Runnyeye came to mind, but each level has its own map there.

[loramin]

OK, so I tried to put Moosh on the basement level the other day and was having no luck. It at least appears that the basement level is loc mapped, but perhaps I just couldn't figure out the syntax. Is there an example of a zone that has levels where the mobs are correctly mapped to the particular level? Runnyeye came to mind, but each level has its own map there.

Looking at https://wiki.project1999.com/MediaWiki:Zones.js it seems only the main level has been mapped. I added "Basement" to Moosh's loc anyway (it doesn't hurt anything to have it there, and if someday the basement level is loc-mapped, that will make it work properly).

If you'd like to do the "loc mapping" for the basement level just follow the instructions in the wiki and then send me the loc data (like the data I posted for the main floor earlier) for that level.

[loramin]

Looking at https://wiki.project1999.com/MediaWiki:Zones.js it seems only the main level has been mapped. I added "Basement" to Moosh's loc anyway (it doesn't hurt anything to have it there, and if someday the basement level is loc-mapped, that will make it work properly).

If you'd like to do the "loc mapping" for the basement level just follow the instructions in the wiki and then send me the loc data (like the data I posted for the main floor earlier) for that level.

Actually, scratch that: I just went ahead and did the mapping for the basement level :D

Let me know if anything looks incorrect, but Moosh at least seems to be in the right spot now.

[Sabin76]

I was changing the "how to obtain" part of a spell, but it seems something's borked in the template for spell research. It's supposed to default to "dropped" if there's nothing in the column for "how to acquire", but putting something there doesn't seem to get rid of the "dropped" part. I'm not sure how to, or if I can, change the way a template works, so I thought I'd post it here.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Template:Recipe_Component

As you can see: even in the example, "dropped" is there when it shouldn't be.


EDIT: Nevermind. I figured it out and fixed it.

[loramin]

When a template has "arguments" (ie. values you provide to it separated with "|") it refers to those arguments in the template code by number, so the first argument would be:

{{{1}}}

If you want to specify a default value (ie. if no one provides a first argument, use this value), you add it after a "|" inside that code:

{{{1|default value}}}

In this case the "- dropped" had gotten outside of where it should be:

{{{3|- Dropped}}}

I fixed it :)

[Sabin76]

I'm feeling productive today!

So, the auction tracker... does it read "k" as "x1000"? There are some items where it seems that it doesn't. If it does, and someone really was selling those Shining Metallic Robes for 6p, then I guess they gave away the deal of a lifetime.

Is there a way for me to dig into how it pulls data out of the logs? Or is that an admin only thing since it effects so much of the wiki. I'd also suggest a median price to go along with the mean as sometimes a really large or small logged price can skew the results dramatically. I know there's the last 20 logs of that item below, but I think having that info up top with the 30d and 90d averages would be useful.

[loramin]

I'm feeling productive today!

So, the auction tracker... does it read "k" as "x1000"? There are some items where it seems that it doesn't. If it does, and someone really was selling those Shining Metallic Robes for 6p, then I guess they gave away the deal of a lifetime.

Is there a way for me to dig into how it pulls data out of the logs? Or is that an admin only thing since it effects so much of the wiki. I'd also suggest a median price to go along with the mean as sometimes a really large or small logged price can skew the results dramatically. I know there's the last 20 logs of that item below, but I think having that info up top with the 30d and 90d averages would be useful.

Here's the thing: the guy who made the auction system (Rahvin) no longer plays. Before he stopped he had a way for people to correct prices, but it had a "the cure is worse than the illness" problem because people could abuse it to inflate/deflate prices.

Thus, he made it so only admins can correct prices. This is an imperfect solution, but unless someone else out there wants to write PHP code to do what you suggest, all you can do is pester me whenever you notice an item with a particularly egregious price problem.

But of course, if you can code in PHP I strongly encourage a solution like the one you proposed! The source code is here: http://wiki.project1999.com/utils/wikiUtils.php.

[Sabin76]

Alas, I cannot. I'll just ping you, then... at least until you find someone able and willing ;).