Seriously fucking traks teeth jesus christ.

[Tobius]

So I've posted before about wanting to do forager cycle with my bro, generally got told we were under levelled.

I got more levels and some more gear.

We tried the night before last and got owned.
56 warr and 45 bard. The skeltons dot's are fucking insane, embarrising that they are light blue and two of them with pets killed us. Never had problems with them on previous attempts which is weird, think there were less of them up.

There's basically three big problems here which again, have been discussed on the forum before.

1. Casters are broken on P99 they have their full spellbook rather than a few levels below their levels like normal.
2. Pathing is different.
3. The frogs attack every animal completly wiping them out.

Now yes token acknowledgment "this is a free game run by volunteers" but they did an entire other expansion before fixing this zone, I'm not questioning their work ethic or asking them to work more, just questioning the order of priorities.

The other reason they haven't changed it is they are reluctant to change things without smoking gun proof. But it's hard to prove the absence of somthing.

No one would have talked about frogs killing raptors if they didn't do it....

Also because casters are OP and roaming is broken, they wipe them out more easily.

There are basically no animals in TT and this is 100% NOT classic. So this is a total justifaction for doing ANYTHING that does the whole "not classic change to maintain the classic environment" which they are reluctant to do generally but something is needed here.

Because they wipe out all the other animals the place is filled with overpowered frogs, making it impossible for anything but max level chars to have any luck it's maddening.

INB4 get gud, yeah we got killed 3 times and I'm salty but this zone is fucked and I'm sick of it.

Some questions:

1. does anyone know what frogloks of kunark start out on faction wise?
a)Can the faction neck clicky bring you to dubious?
b)Can enchanters or bards get to dubious?
c) can neck and bards get to dubious?
2. Has anyone tried doing forager cycle with a non kos to frogs character? That seems a game breaking thing no one might have tried. Ironically working even better in this zone if it's all frogs.

2. Does anyone know the optimum spot in zone as a base, to do forager cycle?

3. Is every mob a PH for everything else? is it possible to have clear the zone of frogloks gradually and replace them with animals/the fallen iksars/weakest warrior frogs? Please spill your forager cycle secrets to me.

[Molitoth]

The best place to pull Forager/Hunter is to the East side of the Lake IMO. There isn't a lot of traffic there and a Ranger should be able to track both spawns from near there.

There is always either 1 Hunter and 1 Forager up at all times, unless the Named spawns in it's place.

Send me a tell on Murof and I can help you sometime.
Granted, if you think getting keyed to seb is hard... seb is going to be a nightmare lol.

[Tobius]

The best place to pull Forager/Hunter is to the East side of the Lake IMO. There isn't a lot of traffic there and a Ranger should be able to track both spawns from near there.

There is always either 1 Hunter and 1 Forager up at all times, unless the Named spawns in it's place.

Send me a tell on Murof and I can help you sometime.
Granted, if you think getting keyed to seb is hard... seb is going to be a nightmare lol.

So we are keyed already, and seb is manageable.
We were trying to get iksar BP's to sell as a get rich quick scheme, we also used to do it on live were we got masks and BP's so it's a nostalgia thing. But it sucks on 99 :(

Also bard range is short af so the really safe spots aren't always viable...

[Skarne]

How come your bard didn’t just charm the adds w pets to destroy them? Then mez 1 and slow the other, or charm 1 and slow the other?

[Tobius]

How come your bard didn’t just charm the adds w pets to destroy them? Then mez 1 and slow the other, or charm 1 and slow the other?

Because he hasn't played in years and doesn't listen to a word I say.
He blames me for not keeping thw aggro off him and insists the most effecient thing is if I meele and he hastes me and slows them.

I explained to him how OP bard mezz is and how op bard fear is but he wont use them much.

He changes the spell gems into a weird order even though I have em in a perfect layout so you can mezz heal 1-2
fight 2-5, slow fear 5-6 charm in 7 and selos in 8

I could have done better peeling the aggro in hindsight, I didn't realise how much these weak skeletons were doing till it was too late tbh. Was just assuming I'd smash em and was already annoyed at the regen time they caused us...

[Skarne]

Ah fair enough man. If you ever see my toon in game, Rhymenocerous, gimme a shout. I’ll help ya out and let ya keep all the loot.

[Tobius]

Ah fair enough man. If you ever see my toon in game, Rhymenocerous, gimme a shout. I’ll help ya out and let ya keep all the loot.

That's an incredibly nice offer, It'd be nice to group with someone who's done it before if only to learn more about positioning and mechanics in that zone and other general tips.

[Skarne]

That's an incredibly nice offer, It'd be nice to group with someone who's done it before if only to learn more about positioning and mechanics in that zone and other general tips.

Yeah man no problem at all. I’ll have some time to be on this evening around 6 or 7 pm est. look out for me!

[Videri]

If what you say is true, you or someone should post in-era evidence and get it changed.

For the time being, I sincerely hope this aids you in your quest:
• Doing the forager/hunter cycle on my bard on Red99 was truly hellish before maybe 55. Fewer mobs aggro the higher you get. 45 is definitely too low. You’ll get half a dozen frogs on you before you find the PH. Plus, the Forager and Hunter are 45, and some of the named are even higher. They’ll wreck you, no doubt about it. And warriors are useless without a powerful healer.
• Have levitate on all the time (you need a pegasus cloak, basically) and run up hills often (carefully) so you can use Z-axis distance to help stay out of aggro range
• IVU is better than invis in TT since half the living mobs see invis anyway (you can rev up Selo’s and receive IVU from any of 5 classes)
• Add a cleric and you get the healing and IVU necessary for this operation.

[Snaggles]

I’d personally skip it for a bit. I tried to do this way back when my ranger was 45 and my brother had a 51 necro. Killing the forager was easy if we could get it back to camp but everything and it’s uncle would aggro on the ranger due to the level gap. Plus shamans casting and running sow speed, etc.

With a Druid or ranger if you get adds and survive you can just snare, zone, and kill the one npc that didn’t path back. The bard has to keep all the adds mezzed while the warrior basically solos. Easier said than done.

If you wanted a seb key and that’s it the struggle would be worth it. Even looking for a third to help. Farming the cycle is going to likely take many hours of PH’s to get the loot you want. A slog for an epic druid on a slow weekend but with that combo likely many deaths if it’s doable.

Sorry to be a bummer. You are better off having him get some levels and just duoing plat mobs to buy one.

[elwing]

Avoid sebilis until you need trak to be honest, go level in the hole...

[kaev]

If what you say is true, you or someone should post in-era evidence and get it changed.


What in era evidence? How do you prove a negative? Do you really believe that NOBODY would have mentioned the frogs wiping out every animal spawn in the zone? Depending your path, the trakasaurs were far more of a menace than the frogs. Here there are only frogs. Casters are broken (they were often rough on live, but not in the same every f--king time they agro way they are here), there're no animals for druids to charm to fight back with. TT is an anti-classic joke.

[kaev]

don't crowd my plat farming, go somewhere else...

ftfy

[Videri]

What in era evidence? How do you prove a negative? Do you really believe that NOBODY would have mentioned the frogs wiping out every animal spawn in the zone? Depending your path, the trakasaurs were far more of a menace than the frogs. Here there are only frogs. Casters are broken (they were often rough on live, but not in the same every f--king time they agro way they are here), there're no animals for druids to charm to fight back with. TT is an anti-classic joke.

Even an anecdotal description written during that era would probably be enough to convince devs here to make an adjustment. I never even saw that zone on Live on my level 23 beastlord, but perhaps there's a Wayback Machine page or someone's homemade EQ fan site or something where they describe charming one of the numerous animals in TT and soloing the hunter/forager cycle np. Lots of old write-ups are out there. Maybe we'll get lucky.

My main point is, the hunter/forager cycle is doable if he gets more levels and a friend with IVU. Let's keep it fun, folks.

[Tobius]

Even an anecdotal description written during that era would probably be enough to convince devs here to make an adjustment. I never even saw that zone on Live on my level 23 beastlord, but perhaps there's a Wayback Machine page or someone's homemade EQ fan site or something where they describe charming one of the numerous animals in TT and soloing the hunter/forager cycle np. Lots of old write-ups are out there. Maybe we'll get lucky.

My main point is, the hunter/forager cycle is doable if he gets more levels and a friend with IVU. Let's keep it fun, folks.

Not it wouldn't there have been several threads on this subject offering their anecdotes GM's haven't done anything so far.

There are a million animals on the spawn table and they are never up. I used to see tonnes of chickens and raptors, occasional tiger.

The frogs aren't meant to attack and shouldn't be winning as easily.

People are right, the warrior is useless even if he gets to 60, 52 bard won't lose the aggro till 55 apparently but I don't want him above 52.

I don't have a cleric friend on speed dial and tbh it'd mean 33% of not getting the already rare loot each time.

It sounds like it's just not a go-er probably only because of the zones horiffically broken state. Shame a couple of BP's is almost do-able. Oh well.

[Tobius]

Avoid sebilis until you need trak to be honest, go level in the hole...

Don't wanna lose my non KOS to elementals racial innate status.
Even though it's useless. I guess I'm like 1% a roleplayer.

[Snaggles]

By the time the bard reaches a decent level you can grind a necro to 51. That will be many times better than the warrior anyways. In fact, I’m not sure of a worse class combo for this unless you have a fungi and some crazy weapons. Even then a pally/sk with the same gear would be much better.

Yea traks teeth is prob not perfectly classic. It was never “easy”. The forager is lvl 45 and the lower level shams tossing blind and roots are terrible. Nice you have a cleric on call but you will never kill enough PH’s for this farm to make sense (at current) unless you get extremely lucky.

The bard also should invest in sow pots. That would leave ease of snare/mez/fear and being able to invis on the pull to hopefully reduce adds.

[Smurflogik]

Unfortunately, your bard just needs more levels to do the cycles easily. No need to mess around with faction; once you get a few more levels, you can just run around with travel song, and rarely will anything aggro. The hunters/foragers do not social with the other frogs, so you can usually solo pull them to a safe place to fear kite (east or west side of the lake is usually nice).

[loramin]

If what you say is true, you or someone should post in-era evidence and get it changed.

For the bit about unclassic spells specifically ... there are some things here that just can't be fixed, or that Nilbog just doesn't want to fix (from our perspective as players the two might as well be the same).

NPCs using unclassic spells has been wrong since I started playing here over half a decade ago. I think I naively even filed a bug on it once, many years ago ... and nothing has happened since. I highly doubt any amount of evidence will fix it, because I don't think the core problem is lack of evidence: it's either an inability or unwillingness (again, hard to know which) on the devs' part.

[Premaximum]

I truly had no idea there were mobs other than frogs that were supposed to wander TT.

[Veccini]

Was there last night getting a Seb key for my wife, plants, trakasaurs, tigers, cockatrices. Saw all kinds of animals.

[Tobius]

If second sons or someone has been actively working the cycle it's better temporarily but it goes back to frogs and skeletons soon enough (frogs don't attack skels)

[stewe]

Because he hasn't played in years and doesn't listen to a word I say.
He blames me for not keeping thw aggro off him and insists the most effecient thing is if I meele and he hastes me and slows them.

I explained to him how OP bard mezz is and how op bard fear is but he wont use them much.

He changes the spell gems into a weird order even though I have em in a perfect layout so you can mezz heal 1-2
fight 2-5, slow fear 5-6 charm in 7 and selos in 8

I could have done better peeling the aggro in hindsight, I didn't realise how much these weak skeletons were doing till it was too late tbh. Was just assuming I'd smash em and was already annoyed at the regen time they caused us...

So you made a whiny post cause your bard is crap, the content isnt the problem, it is your group, get better.

[Tobius]

So you made a whiny post cause your bard is crap, the content isnt the problem, it is your group, get better.

Don't be a bellend that would have potentially saved us from the Skelton's but it doesn't change the fact of the op which is tt is broken and casters are broken.

The death wasn't the point, the dying for nothing was the point.

I already got rezzes for my chars because my new guild are Hella nice people's.

It just bugs me they nerf mallets and other things that make life easier but leave entire zones fucked.

[Tobius]

Does anyone know what is PHs for what? Is it possible to replace every frog with a skeleton or animal or at least s low level frogs.

I'm willing to kill frogs forever out of spite and community service gradually terraforming the zone.

But I want to know if that's even possible

[Master Roshi]

the amount of effort that would involve, you could farm plat elsewhere and buy the bp's quicker.

[Tobius]

the amount of effort that would involve, you could farm plat elsewhere and buy the bp's quicker.

That's why I said it was out of spite 🤣🤣

[goldlush]

Yeah I've noticed a lot of rare spawns on this server are "kill it before an NPC kills it, you never know if it ever spawned and died" although what do I know it could have been like that on live

[Veleria]

It's possible this zone is different on this server because its been figured out to the extent players only kill the specific mobs they need and leave everything else up. On live i saw players killing mobs in tt all the time now 3 mobs are killed in the entire zone.

[Pyrocat]

If you have evidence of animals being more prevalent on live in this era, please make a thread in the bug forum. I think you're probably on to something, but the devs won't make changes without evidence, so I'd look for old screenshots or forum posts that document what you're talking about.

[Jamesstone714]

Went last night with a couple druids to gather up a couple keys...nothing but frogloks and skeletons running around. We were rolling with druid track so we were there a while and were all over the place. Interesting observation.

[Tobius]

If you have evidence of animals being more prevalent on live in this era, please make a thread in the bug forum. I think you're probably on to something, but the devs won't make changes without evidence, so I'd look for old screenshots or forum posts that document what you're talking about.

It was already a pretty high level camp and most people didn't know to farm there, those that did didn't share their secrets.

No one knew it'd be broken years later on an emulator and took evidence. No one had that kind of hindsight.

People mostly ran through to get to seb.

It's not a great zone for regular hunting. I doubt there's much in the way of anything. Even standing around in the middle of the zone to take shots would be very dangerous in the real under-geared classic days with no jboots.

I don't know at what point anecdotes become data, my brother and I farmed this on live many expansions post pop. Never saw the mobs fight and it was teeming with vines and tigers and chickens.

Just logically why would you have a huge spawn table just for everything to get wiped out, it's not like the courier where it's a balance issue and it's supposed to be hard to get. What is the point of having a variety of animals and having them insta killed. It doesn't make any sense to make a cockatrice that drops nothing a rare spawn...

[Tobius]

Went last night with a couple druids to gather up a couple keys...nothing but frogloks and skeletons running around. We were rolling with druid track so we were there a while and were all over the place. Interesting observation.

The skeletons and frogs don't attack each other, which is retarded because undead attack every player relentlessly.

I don't know if skeletons attack the animals never seen it either way but the frogs gradually replace all animals with other frogs or skeletons.

When you look on old Alla posts there's not a single mention of animals fighting frogs at all.

But there are multiple references implying the frogs/cats/vines/dinos are equally prevelant. They talk about finding cats easily and stuff which just isn't the case here.

[Pyrocat]

When you look on old Alla posts there's not a single mention of animals fighting frogs at all.

But there are multiple references implying the frogs/cats/vines/dinos are equally prevelant. They talk about finding cats easily and stuff which just isn't the case here.

This is what you need to post in a bug thread. The actual old posts / evidence. Devs rarely (never?) change things based on anecdotes from current players.

[Nirgon]

So I've posted before about wanting to do forager cycle with my bro, generally got told we were under levelled.

I got more levels and some more gear.

We tried the night before last and got owned.
56 warr and 45 bard. The skeltons dot's are fucking insane, embarrising that they are light blue and two of them with pets killed us. Never had problems with them on previous attempts which is weird, think there were less of them up.

There's basically three big problems here which again, have been discussed on the forum before.

1. Casters are broken on P99 they have their full spellbook rather than a few levels below their levels like normal.
2. Pathing is different.
3. The frogs attack every animal completly wiping them out.

Now yes token acknowledgment "this is a free game run by volunteers" but they did an entire other expansion before fixing this zone, I'm not questioning their work ethic or asking them to work more, just questioning the order of priorities.

The other reason they haven't changed it is they are reluctant to change things without smoking gun proof. But it's hard to prove the absence of somthing.

No one would have talked about frogs killing raptors if they didn't do it....

Also because casters are OP and roaming is broken, they wipe them out more easily.

There are basically no animals in TT and this is 100% NOT classic. So this is a total justifaction for doing ANYTHING that does the whole "not classic change to maintain the classic environment" which they are reluctant to do generally but something is needed here.

Because they wipe out all the other animals the place is filled with overpowered frogs, making it impossible for anything but max level chars to have any luck it's maddening.

INB4 get gud, yeah we got killed 3 times and I'm salty but this zone is fucked and I'm sick of it.

Some questions:

1. does anyone know what frogloks of kunark start out on faction wise?
a)Can the faction neck clicky bring you to dubious?
b)Can enchanters or bards get to dubious?
c) can neck and bards get to dubious?
2. Has anyone tried doing forager cycle with a non kos to frogs character? That seems a game breaking thing no one might have tried. Ironically working even better in this zone if it's all frogs.

2. Does anyone know the optimum spot in zone as a base, to do forager cycle?

3. Is every mob a PH for everything else? is it possible to have clear the zone of frogloks gradually and replace them with animals/the fallen iksars/weakest warrior frogs? Please spill your forager cycle secrets to me.

Gotta learn to cure and dispel

You may have also done better having the druid wear appropriate resist gear for poison/disease, keeping a top slot open to dispel and a clicky item to reset your buff stack while aggro kiting and the warrior chasing

People say this is a simple, stupid faceroll game then run into a small man group scenario and are forced to overcome things like this in a clever way

Tag me in sometime if the druid doesn't mind and I'll show you what's up

[indiscriminate_hater]

This camp just isn't worth it for anyone who's not a level 60 bard doing it solo. Harbinger and Crusader each probably have a 0.5% to 1.0% chance to spawn each kill. That means 100-200 kills expected before you see each of them.

If you're pulling the forager all the way to a zoneline or the east side of the lake, it's taking too long. If you have to med up between kills, it's taking too long. If you're not damaging it the entire time it's engaged, you're taking too long. If you aren't running at bard speed to locate and engage the PH it's taking way too long.

A 60 bard can kill about 22 PHs per hour at max efficiency... any other class or combination of classes is doing maybe half of that. Add to that the fact that you have to split the loot with any group members, and your expected payout is on the order of low hundreds of platinum per hour if you're not a solo 60 bard.

It sucks, but it's the truth. I cringe every time I see a 52 druid spamming drones of doom on the PH.

[Jimjam]

A 52 druid is making xp with a chance for loots. I don’t think that is so cringe. I did a fair amount of 55-60 on my ranger with this cycle too.

A 60 bard will be doing this only for the plat, and if that is the case then just team up with a wizard to sell fast AoE PLs on spiders or something instead?

[Tobius]

This camp just isn't worth it for anyone who's not a level 60 bard doing it solo. Harbinger and Crusader each probably have a 0.5% to 1.0% chance to spawn each kill. That means 100-200 kills expected before you see each of them.

If you're pulling the forager all the way to a zoneline or the east side of the lake, it's taking too long. If you have to med up between kills, it's taking too long. If you're not damaging it the entire time it's engaged, you're taking too long. If you aren't running at bard speed to locate and engage the PH it's taking way too long.

A 60 bard can kill about 22 PHs per hour at max efficiency... any other class or combination of classes is doing maybe half of that. Add to that the fact that you have to split the loot with any group members, and your expected payout is on the order of low hundreds of platinum per hour if you're not a solo 60 bard.

It sucks, but it's the truth. I cringe every time I see a 52 druid spamming drones of doom on the PH.

Thanks, I hate levelling but I guess it's an either or situation at this point ain't it?