Magi P'Tasa Staff of Elementary Mastery Earth drop rate

[gwideon]

Gnomish Greetings!

Gnomes are known to be tenacious when it comes to their projects, so I ask you to bear with me and please review the following research regarding the Staff of Elementary Mastery: Earth. I believe the drop rate should be considerably better to match the period we are currently in on blue to be about 25% of the time and I think currently it is close to 5%. I could be unlucky, granted. However I have seen a post of a poor mage that claimed to kill 20 Magi without a drop and ended up quitting the class to become a shaman. And there have been calls from other players on the server to please increase the drop rate.

Research support #1
Sometime before revamp of Hate the rate of the Magi staff was increased.

https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=760&post=1&replyto=97563658127824&p=6#m97563658127824
RE: Getting Close To Completion
# Nov 30 2000 at 9:09 PM
Anonymous
Sorry to disappoint you but the staff of elem mastery earth won't move from Inny, as they gave up the idea of making Inny and CT lvl60+ gods with new loot.
At least the staff seems to have become a much more common drop since the patch that fixed the Elemental Binder drop (reports of inny drops afteer that patch were showing something close to a 50% drop for the staff). So don't worry if u have what it takes to get the crown from PoA, the staff should be attainable now.
Several mages have already all the items but the burning embers, whose location is still unknown/uncomfirmed and that is probably not in game yet (I wish my guild was able to go to PoA island 7th..).

Ektarot, mage 55th.

If Sony upped the drop rate from Inny, they would be less likely to revert to extreme rarity especially when they are in the process of revamping epic quests for many classes. They may have changed it based on the increased spawn rate of the mini over the god. Since the mini would spawn 2 times for a week they may have made it half the rate or 25% instead of the 50% he mentions.


Research support #2
Admittedly this is not a completely accurate picture but it supports the fact that the drop rate is more frequent.

https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=526&p=2#m98802407921501
For Nisumbus
Apr 23 2001 at 6:07 AM Rating: Default

This is just fyi, Shovel of Ponz is the pre-50 earth focus, Mastery Staff is for 50+ pet spells. I looted it Friday night, my first (!) trip to Hate. It is MUCH easier to get now than it was, from all I have heard. Got 2 pieces Apothic also, off the mini-boss ). Good hunting all.

Forte Fortissimo
59 Conjurer
A`dileab de Paegen
Tunare


https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=526&p=3#m98675622869743
on Magi`P`Tasa now
# Apr 08 2001 at 1:57 PM Rating: Default
Anonymous
the staff noz drop from Magi , a mini boss level 55 . this guy always drops staff and some apothic armor.

While I do not believe that the drop rate is 100%, if the player thinks it is this common he is likely to have seen multiple drops to come to this conclusion.

Research support #3
This poster rates the staff as rare, but notice he bases his declaration on an estimated 1 in 5 drop rate

https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=6623&p=2#m101050875296393
Magi P`Tasa and demis
# Jan 08 2002 at 11:52 AM Rating: Default
Anonymous
I've gone to hate many times trying to get my epic. From what I've seen there are about 10 demi spawns throughout the zone. Each demi is random to spawn through those 10 and do not have PH. They appear to be on a 72 hour timer. I killed the Magi 6 times before getting a Staff of Elemental Mastery: Earth. From what I've been able to gather this staff is very rare. I'd estimate about 1 out of 5 spawns.

Magi loot:
Common drop: Two parts of apothic
Rare: Staff of Elemental Mastery: Earth (along with the apothic)

He estimates 1 out of 5, but other posts support 25%. It is possible he was unlucky that it took him 6 attempts.

Research support #4
This is more antidotal but supports the overall conclusion that the Staff was not ultra-rare. I have seen dozens of posts complain about the difficulty in obtaining the Pegasus cloak and the crown without mention of the staff. The following is a post from 2016, but he is talking about his experience in our era of 2001.

https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=760#m1457280946156927777
Still doing this?
# Mar 06 2016 at 10:15 AM
Umbridge
1 post
Wow, people are still doing this one? I finished this one in 2001. It was terrible and costly. The crown and the cloak were the worst.

Imagine doing this quest when it was current content.

https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=760&p=6#m9771274768235
RE: Peggy Cloak
Dec 18 2000 at 8:18 AM
The cloak is definately one of the rarest items to get for a mages epic quest seeing as how its still a great item for other classes as well hence its killed on sight whether its for a mages epic or not. If you're a nice person, obviously help a mage out if you come across Quillmane.

https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=760&p=7#m97369041223648
RE: They hate our class
# Nov 08 2000 at 8:33 AM
Anonymous
They hate our class cause we have to Kill Phiningel Atropos ? Where's the Problem to kill him ? We went him down 5 times in one week with 12 to 18 ppl I think this was the easy part of the quest :p

the quest is possible but not so easy like the rogue quest for sure but if I ever held myself the mage epikquest item I think I m very proud.
A rogue cannot solo his quest and a mage for sure not but thats a quest not all can finish.

the only part which really sucks is the pegasus cloak : to camp a rare random spawn in a very big zone is more then boring and not able for a mage to do that cause without track you ll never find her but it s a part ok so I try to catch her and be lucky when I do so that s a part of the GAME.

All of these posts, and many more, were complaining about the Pegasus cloak, which can be a pain, but it is nowhere near as difficult to obtain on p99 as the staff. Mages here would laugh at someone complaining about the Pegasus cloak given the difficulty of obtaining the staff.

Research support #5
This supports a 25% drop rate. It is a post from 2004, but he specifically mentions that he got his staff before the hate revamp when the staff was moved to revenants. It took him 4 full Hate raids and he thought it was significant enough to explain how difficult that was.

https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=760&p=2#m110384267182270
RE: The whole 46er
Dec 23 2004 at 5:58 PM
MrFuzzah
I understand where your coming from, but you must realize this epic was made in the Kunark Era. At the time, this was the most difficult of all epics to complete.

The magician epic was a HUGE time sink. The entire quest is made up of rare drops from rare spawns, whereas most guilds were competing for the same mobs at the time.

Phinigel Atropos took 16 kills before i recieved a staff. Magi P'Tasa took me 4 full out hate raids (Before Revamp), A 3 Day(Yeah 3 day long) PoSky raid to get to the 7th Isle for my crown. Torch of the Elements used to require a full raid through CoM(before revamp). And Quillmane took me over 100+ hours of camping for the cloak. All are rare drops from rare mobs.
Its not as if most of these were soloable at the time, either. Phinigel took 18+ people to kill him safely. PoSky we were looking at 50+ for 3 days, before the raid function was available.

If your looking at this from a PoP or Omens standpoint, all epics are easy to complete. If your looking back to the times when it was useful, it was rare and almost impossible to get.

He is calling the item rare when it only took him 4 attempts at the staff and he is also emphasizing the difficulty of the other pieces of the quest. It also shows that this mob was not as contested as it is on P99. If he is doing full raids on the zone it is unlikely that there were hit squads that are targeting specifically this mob if they are clearing the zone. This was also my experience on EQlive; you raided the entire zone of Hate.

Other reasons
This is a bad situation which has the potential to become much worse. There have been posts on the trading forums about the earth staff MQ selling for 700k to 1 million platinum (down from 1.5 million). Most players will not see this much platinum and I hope inflation never makes this the norm for the health of the economy. This becomes a prime candidate for RMT types to obtain for MQ if they can score huge amounts of cash or platinum for an item of this rarity. It could tempt normally honest players to do something against the rules. This is not good for the health of the server. It encourages some people to break the rules, which they are doing now by camping out in zone to get this staff which will lead to others doing the same. Since they are camping out in zone they are not just taking down Magi, but many of the other named minis which is also leading to other classes bottlenecks.

My personal experience on P99
My mage was created in October 2014 and made 60 when chardok AE groups were popular well before the change to limit AE. I knew the difficulty of the Mage epic was high and that it wouldn’t fall into my lap. I chose my guild(s) based on the ability to reach island 7 in Plane of Sky and regularly raid the planes. I attended every Hate raid I could knowing that I needed to get lucky to have a chance to complete this epic. As you can probably guess, Inny and later Magi were never up when I took this approach. I signed up for bat phone etc. However, today Hate minis are not most guilds primary target and no one in our guild was tracking them on a daily/hourly basis. So, I made a second ranger and levelled him up to 51 later in 2018 with an eye on more actively tracking my target specifically for this purpose. It turned out he actually did spawn but was very short lived (haha). I amassed and held the top dkp in my guild so that on the off chance it did drop I would have a chance to get the staff. I am regularly in the top 3 – 5 in dkp accrual, always the top mage and pass over many drops because of my obsession. My tracker kept dying to pulls and to small hit squads that chose to fight the mob close to the tracking spot at the most inopportune time. So, I leveled a guild cleric from 30s to 50 and we got him an epic so that we could recover quicker and not lose prime tracking spawn time to send people up to hate to recover the tracker. I have killed Magi 10 times so far, and with how contested this spawn is I consider it lucky to have had that many chances. I have seen other groups kill Magi multiple times. I have yet to see the staff drop. Yes, I know players who have their epic; they know they were extremely lucky. As I hope this communicates, I many and others have put considerable effort into getting this item. I am not just throwing up my hands and saying it is impossible. Mages should not have to go to these extremes to have a chance at their epic.

Conclusion
These posts show that that the item was not as rare on EQLive as it is on P99. What they considered rare probably seems ridiculously easy to P99 players. Based on the evidence provided it seems a rate of 25% would be closer to what was on live at this time period. I would argue it should be more like to 50% to account for the backlog of many years of pent up demand that is out there, but I know that is not how P99 is determined. The rarity is not healthy for the server, and is tempting for RMT to exploit.

This took considerable time to research for every pertinent post I had to wade through hundreds of junk posts, broken links, and unrelated information. I ask that you please consider this for correction as it is a real problem.

Thank ye kindly!

[gwideon]

Please also review this post about the necessity of adding a FTE message on Hate minis:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=356452

[Pringles]

Some of this other than drop rate could be fixed by disabling that portion of the quests MQ capability. At the very least it would put a hamper on those hit squads who stay up there 24/7

Really extrapolate that out to all essential epic quest items and it would go a ways toward leveling the playing field of those who have been here 10 years vs some poor guy who started a year ago who will never be able to accomplish his goals or even get to enjoy a classic journey. I would also argue that the new guys experience is more important than a lifer whom is paying the rent with MQ's. It's just a matter of what philosophy you want to run things by, creating a classic experience for EQ fans or catering to people whose joy for this was hollowed out a long time ago.

[Izmael]

Mage epic is too OP to be common.

[Pringles]

That is an absurd statement. By that measure so is the cleric epic. I have no idea why this was changed to 3 day spawn. It seems to be based off one post on Usenet while we have a very well written guide to the contrary. Not to mention if you take the time to read the sources nowhere is the staff talked about as being hard to get. QM being the rarest due to less knowledge back in.

@OP See what you can dig up on http://www.magecompendium.com if archive caught enough of it

[Pretzelle]

Good luck in your quest to achieve Elemental Mastery, my gnomish friend.

[Pringles]

So the drop rate was increased in early 2002 according to patch notes. So lets speculate it had a 5% drop rate off the magi who spawned every 12 hours. That's an epic piece every 10 days versus 60 days with a 72 hour spawn. Only having a few epics on each server during the xpac just doesn't add up for me personally. There is plenty of evidence of people whining about how rare it dropped but nothing to support an absurd 72 hour spawn. Phinigel had a 12 hour spawn in this era and I have seen a couple references to magi and him being the same caliber of bottleneck.

[gwideon]

Why do I feel I have stepped into the middle of someone else's argument? :)

I saw the thread in the general forum, and the response was that was not the correct forum; post in bugs. I also saw that it should be based on research (which I knew) rather than opinion; so I dug in and did the research. I think the research supports what everyone knew, that the staff was too rare to match the era we were playing in.

Please keep in mind my intention in this thread is to establish a bug fix to match EQLive era 2001 rather than a non-classic proposal. When I was reading the threads doing background research they were already talking about MQ of the Pegasus cloak, so that is classic for this era.

Thanks for your comments.

[Pringles]

Everything you have put out has already been seen by the staff not to mention archived materials you do not have access to. It's a matter of swaying hearts and minds when no smoking gun is found. Good luck with your bumps :(


edit: i mean you are using a piece of evidence from 2004 which is past the January 2002 rate increase to begin with a critique. this is not my fight at all but do not spurn help when given, kinda silly.

[Ligma]

By that measure so is the cleric epic

If mage epic still hits for 81 then it's literally OP considering it's supposed to hit for like 67 and was upgraded later because mages don't get a pet in luclin.

[Pringles]

If mage epic still hits for 81 then it's literally OP considering it's supposed to hit for like 67 and was upgraded later because mages don't get a pet in luclin.
Then post your sources in a thread? You can be one of the rare few arguing for actual classic mechanics vs what is good for them. Uncle Nilbog wants YOU!

I'm out of this thread good luck OP

[Pretzelle]

I remember the Pegasus Feather Cloak being the biggest bottleneck for this quest on live.

[Freezing]

Mage Epic pet is far from OP. It is great for low level encounters like killing in droga, etc, but the pet gets absolutely shredded and gets hit for max most times.

[Izmael]

I have both mage and cleric epics so I suppose it makes me qualified to compare them.

Mage epic allows to summon infinite amounts of disposable tanks with 4k hp that quad for 81, nuke and stun, and regen 5% of their HP / tick out of combat. That's 200 hp / tick regeneration rate. (Torpor is 300 / tick as a comparison).

Cleric epic allows to save mana on a spell the cleric can already cast.

One of these two epics is very powerful and game changing (and shall remain rare), while the other is not. Figuring out which is which is left as an exercice to the reader.

[Shroctagan]

For grouping/solo level content the mage epic is a game changer, but not any more so than torpor, enchanter charm, or the bard epic. Then when it comes to raiding the cleric epic is the single most OP item in the game, especially with the recent clicky nerf, and the mage epic ranges from moderately additive to completely useless, so it does seem odd for you to keep harping on how OP it is compared to some of the other items that are out there.

[Ligma]

Then post your sources in a thread?

https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=760&p=5#m98885107780693

the pet Quad hits for 67, casts nukes, stuns, bashes, kicks and has 3k HP

Epic hitting for 81 is especially OP in kunark.

Mages don't get a pet in velious or luclin. It was upgraded atleast once, possibly more. PoP pets have basically the same stats just lower level. Epic was best dps in pop when the proc landed. Proc goes off way too infrequently here.

[Shroctagan]

https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=760&p=5#m98885107780693

the pet Quad hits for 67, casts nukes, stuns, bashes, kicks and has 3k HP

Epic hitting for 81 is especially OP in kunark.

Mages don't get a pet in velious or luclin. It was upgraded atleast once, possibly more. PoP pets have basically the same stats just lower level. Epic was best dps in pop when the proc landed. Proc goes off way too infrequently here.

Start a bug thread? That source also says the pet has 3.8k hp...

[gwideon]

I have both mage and cleric epics so I suppose it makes me qualified to compare them.

This is the classic argument of people who have already obtained an item that is difficult. I got mine, and it should be difficult to obtain for you. Back in the day, it was the wizard epic that I heard should remain difficult because it allowed wizards with Manna Robes / Manastones / Mod Rods to regain mana faster using an unlimited rune to regain mana which was useful for raid content where wizard nukes landed better. /shrug

I did not create the bug thread to compare the size of our epics ... :D

However classic the argument is, it does not dispute the evidence that the the drop rate today is not classic for the era. Sony, made adjustments to address drop rates in era, and those drop rates should be mirrored on P99 to be a classic server.

[Izmael]

I got mine, and it should be difficult to obtain for you.
In this particular case, this is incorrect. My mage epic is on Red. It wasn't hard to obtain at all, I haven't played the character in many years and basically don't give a rat's ass about it.

I also don't care very much about mages in general. I do, however, care about the integrity of P99 - and having hordes of epic mages running around is NOT good for the server's integrity.

[Sunderfury]

Start a bug thread? That source also says the pet has 3.8k hp...

One had already been made with definitive proof:
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298463

[gwideon]

In this particular case, this is incorrect. My mage epic is on Red. It wasn't hard to obtain at all, I haven't played the character in many years and basically don't give a rat's ass about it.

I also don't care very much about mages in general. I do, however, care about the integrity of P99 - and having hordes of epic mages running around is NOT good for the server's integrity.

Mr. retired red epic magician,

I did not say your epic was hard, only that you had one. If you truly care about the integrity of the server, then I would think you would see the point of having something that is rare and MQable being sold to undeserving Mages for massive amounts of platinum that can lead to RMT. Pringles makes the better argument for the health of the server by disabling MQ on epics because at least that would discourage people farming them.

If you really care about the integrity of a server that is meant to be classic, I would hope that you would want the drop rate to match what it was on EQLive.

[Izmael]

I care about the integrity of the server in 2020, which involves making non-classic adjustments in order to preserve the classic feel as much as possible (rooted dragons, nerfed clickies fall into this category).

Also I don't see what's wrong with selling epic MQs for plat. If anything, this allows casual mages who would have zero shots at looting the staff at a raid to (painstakingly) farm the plat and buy it.

You don't like farm crews farming it? Find a few friends and farm it yourself. Don't have friends? Farm plat and buy it. So many options.

If you disable MQ's or remove the farming crews, your only options will be to become a top guild member, play EQ like a full time job, and wait a few years until you are maybe allowed to spend your DKPs on the staff.

[gwideon]

I care about the integrity of the server in 2020, which involves making non-classic adjustments in order to preserve the classic feel as much as possible (rooted dragons, nerfed clickies fall into this category).

The classic feel did not include requiring magicians have to buy their epic from farm crews. They actually had a decent chance to obtain it, which is the whole point of this bug report.

Also I don't see what's wrong with selling epic MQs for plat. If anything, this allows casual mages who would have zero shots at looting the staff at a raid to (painstakingly) farm the plat and buy it.

You mean those casuals who have a million platinum? /boggle It is more likely that the person buying the staff is the 7th alt of a neck beard player than a casual with many hundreds of thousands of plat. There are still casual guilds that help players get their epics; I am in one. I don’t really have a problem with selling MQ; I do have a problem with unguilded alts violating server rules to deny others the ability to complete the quest on their own.

You don't like farm crews farming it? Find a few friends and farm it yourself. Don't have friends? Farm plat and buy it. So many options.

Those farm groups are violating the server rules by camping out in zone. I have fantastic friends who have helped me kill Magi P'Tasa 10 times so far and given me a chance at about 4 others. They have dropped what they were doing and come to my aid selflessly many times. I don’t think any of them would violate the rules and camp out in zone, nor would I ask them to. I am not sure I would want to be part of a guild that does encourage that.

If you disable MQ's or remove the farming crews, your only options will be to become a top guild member, play EQ like a full time job, and wait a few years until you are maybe allowed to spend your DKPs on the staff.

I don’t think you even read my original post since you are making these silly arguments. Chances are if this is eventually addressed as it should be, I’ll have finally gotten lucky, and it won’t impact me. But it does not mean every magician should have to go through what I have gone through.

I think you are just trolling this thread. Why don’t you just go haunt someone else.

[MaCtastic]

The mobs doesn’t spawn every 12 hours, just has a chance to spawn. Pras for the pending fix to this obsurd bottleneck, surely the same GM that made the ‘fix’ to recharges and soulfire will apply that same logic here.

[Izmael]

I have fantastic friends who have helped me kill Magi P'Tasa 10 times so far

So basically you are mad at the RNG. If you had gotten lucky during these kills, I'm sure you'd find the drop rate just fine.

Bottom line is, the devs know what the mage epic is and are perfectly aware of the staff bottleneck. Since they leave it there, it's most certainly because they don't want the server flooded with mages, just like any TLP server is at the beginning.

[gwideon]

If I had gotten lucky with the RNG, I might not have become aware of the rarity and I probably wouldn't have done the research. (/shakes head) Of course!

I think the staff is aware of the rarity, but I did not see a prior post that presented evidence that the drop rate is not classic. A guide mentioned in the post I did see in blue chat that the post should be here in bugs, and it should provide era pertinent evidence that the drop rate. So, here it is.

I did also see your post bumping a staff for sale in EC tunnel blue, one of your friends no doubt. I guess maybe your motives are not so pure on farming and the rarity of the staff. (figures)

[Izmael]

I did also see your post bumping a staff for sale in EC tunnel blue, one of your friends no doubt. I guess maybe your motives are not so pure on farming and the rarity of the staff. (figures)


You are wrong, I mistakenly replied to the topic instead of sending a private message in which I enquired about the price. I wouldn't mind epicing a mage on blue myself.

He's asking a million, which is a shit ton of course, and I'm not going to pay that much.

Note that other epic items such as the green or white scale, also routinely go for amounts of the same order of magnitude and they are nowhere near as empowering.

[xdrcfrx]

Note that other epic items such as the green or white scale, also routinely go for amounts of the same order of magnitude and they are nowhere near as empowering.


Let us know when Sev, Hosh, Vox, or Gore start being farmed by a small group of untagged farmers that camp out at the spawn.

[sydbarrett25]

Let us know when Sev, Hosh, Vox, or Gore start being farmed by a small group of untagged farmers that camp out at the spawn.

Nice

[Sunderfury]

Please keep posting to factual based evidence here and not sling mud.

[gwideon]

Gnomish Greetings!

I found another web page but there is no date on it that I see. But some things in the page indicate it should be in era.

Neh'Ashiir in City of Mist - raid needed.
Capt. Rottgrime in The Overthere - Small raid (2-3 groups) needed.
Does NOT mention it dropping off of forsaken revenants

http://jahya0.tripod.com/MageMobs.html
Magi P'tasa in Plane of Hate
Staff of Elemental Mastery: Earth
Magi is lvl 55, class unknown. He has 32,000 HP and hits for a max of 240. He is a rare spawn.

Here's some info from Matt Waggoner's site:
Magi, like all mini bosses, is a semi-rare spawn with a placeholder on a 72 hour timer +/- 12 hours (60-84 hour spawn). He spawns in 10 different spots:
2 in rev house
2 on top floor in maestro's house
2 with ashenbone drakes on first floor
2 in inny's old lair
2 on second floor of second floor church.
He is NOT always up after patches... but he has a very good chance of being up because he has about a 30% chance of spawning in 10 spots, but sometimes the spots could all be filled with phs (has happened before). He CAN be slowed, malosini'd and debuffed. He can be taken out with one full group if you are good and have a 60 shaman.

Drop rates are as follows:
30% chance of dropping the staff
30% chance of dropping apothic robe
40% chance of dropping apothic sleeves, pants, or crown
50% chance of dropping apothic bracer, gloves, or boots
(he is known to drop up to 3 armor pieces at a time)

Although a group can do this mob, a raid would probably be best.

He also mentions Matt Waggoner's size which I have seen in in-era posts on this. Here he mentions 30% which is not far from the 25% I was deriving from other posts. The spawn rate also matches the P99 rate which also indicates it should be in era.

[gwideon]

Here is another post of the Epic dated from 2004, however the post does not say the staff drops from revenants so it may be a copy of another post:

https://foroedn.mforos.com/437762/2342414-epic-1-0-english/

Staff of Earth drops off Magi P'Tasa in Hate. He is on a rare pop out of several (12) places, so there can be multiples of him up, although I have never seen more than 2. The drop rate is about 1 in 4. One uber group can do him, although you probably need an all out raid. The Dirt of Underfoot is found on Slixin Klex. It is a common drop. He won't be very difficult finding for he spawns (-500, -1100) just north of the glowing meteor every 22 minutes. He is a level 50 warrior and has 11000 hitpoints. Both the Shovel of Ponz and the Broom of Triton are subquests. Both quests are given by Vira in the Temple of Solusek Ro. For the Shovel of Ponz you need a shovel dropped from level 25-32 alligators within Feerrott, the toes of a hill giant from a hill giant, a gargoyles eye from gargoyles in Ocean of Tear, and a ruby from gem selling vendors. For the Broom of Triton you need a broom from alligators in Feerrott, the toes of a cyclops, the feathers of a griffon, and a star ruby from gem selling vendors. For these quests you need to have good faction with the Temple of Solusek Ro which can be obtained by killing Shadow-Men. Hand the four items in to Tiblner Milnik and you will be rewarded with the Element of Earth.

[gwideon]

I mentioned in the post above that Matt Waggner's site is in era and that it is a copy and paste from his in era website here is evidence:

https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=6623&p=2#m100677907676693
Maginess
Nov 26 2001 at 7:51 AM
Anonymous
Magi, like all mini bosses, is a semi-rare spawn with a placeholder on a 72 hour timer + or - 12 hours (60-84 hour spawn). He spawns in 10 different spots:

2 in rev house
2 on top floor in maestro's house
2 with ashenbone drakes on first floor
2 in inny's old lair
2 on second floor of second floor church.

This is direct paste from http://matt.waggoner.com/orbofmastery.html
The link in the post is no longer active after nearly 20 years but as you can see in the above post the text is identical the information copied above, same abbreviations and format placing this affirmatively within our era. I also believe this was used as evidence in a prior P99 adjustment to reduce the spawn rate to 72 hours from 8 hours.

Here is a Magician Epic walk through post from a Korean website that is dated 12/25/02 but again there is no mention of it dropping from revenants of the later Hate change. Also please keep in mind that information lagged on many sites as players slowly discovered content and found old sources for their own write ups. Reference uses google translate but you can see the original if it will help.

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ko&u=https://m.cafe.daum.net/luclin/5E00/4%3FlistURI%3D%252Fluclin%252F5E00&prev=search

Tiblner Milnik says' Combining the following items can bring the Element of Earth together. Obtain the Staff of Elemental Mastery: Earth, held by the minions of the Prince of Hate, The Dirt of Underfoot found on Slix something or the other, and of course, I shall need the Broom of Trilon and the Shovel of Ponz. Bring all these things, and I shall show you what a true Master of Earth can do, and gift you with the Element of Earth.

Now ... there is no free. You also need to get 4 more (Shovel of Ponz, Broom of Trilon, Staff of Elemental Mastery: Earth, Dirt of Underfoot)

1] Shovel of Ponz
; You have to get these.

In 1} najena you have to get Shovel from Wizards or Crocs of Khajittuul.
2} Hill Giant's Toe
3} Gargoyle's Eye (Mist Moore or OOT)
4} Ruby

With these you can go to Temple of Solusek Ro and get it through Vira.
When you go to Temple of Solusek Ro, it's good to go with Temple of Solusek Ro and people with good factions.
The best way to raise the faction of Temple of Solusek Ro is to kill shadowed men.

2] Broom of Trilon
; You have to get these.

In 1} najena, you have to get a broom from wizards or eggs from Kazictool.
2} Cyclops toes
3} Griffon feather (may be sold by vendors of North Karana)
4} Sell Star Ruby (not Star Ruby !!). -_-

3] Staff of Elemental Mastery: Earth
; Magi P'tasa (Level: 55, Energy: 32000)
You live in a place called Plane of Hate. 30% drop on a huge rare spawn (60-84 hour spawn) ..

4] Dirt of Underfoot
; Slixin Klex (Class: Warrior, Level: 50, Energy: 11000, Damage: 137, Antic Skel)
You say you live in Burning Wood in KUNARK (-500, -1100).

Now ~~ If you collected 4, give Tiblner Milnik living in Firiona Vie in KUNARK, and you will give Element of Earth, right?
Another squad ends. -_- It's shorter than the big one, but -_- It's a door that can be seen for a longer time. -_-
Here we see the 30% drop rate from the other post rather than 1 in 4 in other posts I found but again it is close to the estimate of other players from the same period. Google doesn’t do a great job with pronouns, but the essence of the post shows the drop rate.
----

The following post shows a copyright of 2002 at the bottom of the page, but again no mention of revenants dropping the staff. The date could be due to revisions in his walk through from the original rather the original write up date. The text again matches closely the text from the prior post.

http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/eqguild/charinfo/magician/epic.html
Staff of Earth drops off Magi P'Tasa in Hate. He is on a rare pop out of several (12) places, so there can be multiples of him up, although I have never seen more than 2. The drop rate is about 1 in 4. One uber group can do him, although you probably need an all out raid.


In my research I did not find anything that supports my guess at the current P99 drop rate of 5 – 10%. All of the sources close to the period seem to point to a 25% - 30% drop rate for the staff. This makes sense from a Sony perspective as they made adjustments to many of the class epics around the same time to give players an opportunity to complete them. They would not be likely to leave one class’s epic extremely difficult and endure the rants of Sony hates the Magician class. (However, they were already saying it because of the Pegasus Cloak) The magician’s epic is already fairly involved with several raid level encounters and more numerous steps than some of the other epics. It is arguably the most difficult on P99.

I know there will be some who will say that they had to go through the rarity of the drop, so others should too. I can understand that because it was also the argument used on EQLive and class boards at the time for all of the revised epic quests. However if the goal of the server is to recreate the game as it was in the peak of the game in period, the drop rate should reflect the rate at the time. To subject others to the same P99 rarity just because you had to may be a classic argument, but hopefully it is not the opinion of the P99 staff.

Some have pointed out that an epic magician was uncommon. Magicians as a class were uncommon. Mages did not like their role in the raid environment as modrod producers because people at the time often did not allow pets for boss mobs because of pathing and warping, etc. In my recollection on our server INT casters in general were less valued during the Velious era which was dominated by melee due to the higher HP boss mobs and mana regen limitations. Wizards were much more common due to the Lure line of spells on resistant bosses, and later the Bane set of spells. However, the rarity of the class does not prove that their epic was unusually rare.

Lastly, there is a group I have little sympathy for, the farmers. Not that I am against farming in general, most people do it to earn plat for other things. It is part of the game. But, because this item is so rare, there is a select few who are breaking the rules by camping out in zone so they can snatch it up before people get it for their own epics. They do it with 2 unguilded accounts (avoiding a raid ban) and have a head start on people who have to gather and port up and break into the entrance of the zone with a larger force. You can see an example of the problem this causes in this RNF post from last year:
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=322988
This is still happening. I thought with the launch of the green server the crew would move onto other projects. That they are not, leads me to wonder if there is not RMT motives involved. I cannot prove this is their intent, it may be just another mage desperate to obtain their epic and willing to break the rules to get it. I have had people tell me to get FRAPS which is easier said than done for reasons I won’t go into here as it may lead to them using that information. One other tracker claims to have gotten video and reported them, I hope they are banned considering they are unguilded and trying to skirt the raiding rules. As you can see from prior posts, some would encourage others to do the same. Not healthy (IMO)

I do not bring the last item up to invite RNF; please start your own thread there. I bring it up because there are some who will argue against the change so that they or their friends can continue to do this. Please take this into consideration.

Thank ye kindly!

[Kaellaven]

My mage has everything but the Earth staff. Such a shame. I agree - up the drop rate and/or eliminate the MQ-ability of the staff to give some of the other Mages a chance. It’s been a lot of time and work up to this point!

[Telin]

Just putting this here for reference.

9/29/01

quillmane's cloak is the most boring of all the mage epic camps. the plane
of air, provided you assemble a strong raid force that is willing to take
out a saturday/sunday just to be in sky and is committed to going to that
island.... is really not *that* hard. again, assuming that you have the
raid force and levels and gear and appropriate classes, you should be able
to get through bee island, which is arguably the hardest island in sky.
also, the crowns can be traded and sold, so it can always be purchased.

imho, the hardest part is the earth staff. random three day spawn, still a uncommon/rare drop off the magi p'tasa... on the server i am on, there are about nine magicians who just have earth staff left. i think that says
something as to the rarity and difficulty of obtaining one...

fortunately, i was able to remove myself from that list a few weeks ago :)
uubober is quite nice, yes...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/BEijpImYl58/Dwb0H4fEiVsJ

[Croco]

imho, the hardest part is the earth staff. random three day spawn, still a uncommon/rare drop off the magi p'tasa... on the server i am on, there are about nine magicians who just have earth staff left. i think that says
something as to the rarity and difficulty of obtaining one...

At least gwideon has posted from multiple sources with pretty compelling drop rates. Posting this quote is beyond meaningless. This is so circumstantial it's like 3 times removed from actual circumstantial evidence. Who's to say there wasn't another server where every mage that wanted one and 4 alts already had their earth staff. You know how %'s work right?

Keep up the good fight Gwideon. Though I'm fairly convinced at this point they wouldn't consider evidence good enough unless it was a youtube video of a dev showing his work badge and stating the actual drop rate in era with tv news in the background of 9/11 happening to corroborate the in era timestamp of the video.

[Jimjam]

There are a lot more than just 9 magicians on p99 that have just the Earth Staff left. Tellin, I think your quote is actually telling us the staff is too rare. If the typical number of mages who have done the whole epic, excepting the Earth staff should balance out to just nine it should be dropping more often.

Rare/uncommon typically means 25%, whereas very rare usually meant 5%. His opinion tells me the staff should be a 25% drop rate.

[Lammy]

I forget my exact count, but I've killed Magi close to 20 times with no staff.

I beat EQ never getting my epic for this poor gnome.

[gwideon]

Gnomish Greetings Telin!

And thank you for responding to the thread. It is my hope that you posted the information to include it with the other information gathered for reference and that this is not a final staff position on adjusting the drop rate. I would propose to you that “uncommon/rare” is a relative term that means different things to different players.

This poster rates the staff as rare, but notice he bases his declaration on an estimated 1 in 5 drop rate

https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/...01050875296393
Magi P`Tasa and demis
# Jan 08 2002 at 11:52 AM Rating: Default
Anonymous
I've gone to hate many times trying to get my epic. From what I've seen there are about 10 demi spawns throughout the zone. Each demi is random to spawn through those 10 and do not have PH. They appear to be on a 72 hour timer. I killed the Magi 6 times before getting a Staff of Elemental Mastery: Earth. From what I've been able to gather this staff is very rare. I'd estimate about 1 out of 5 spawns.

Magi loot:
Common drop: Two parts of apothic
Rare: Staff of Elemental Mastery: Earth (along with the apothic)

I think there is more evidential support for 25% - 30%, than there is for 20% but I have not found any evidential support for 5 – 10% drop rates. There are also posts which would imply that it is even more common that 1 out of 4.

https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=6623&p=3#m99462253964784
great raid )
# Jul 08 2001 at 3:02 PM
Anonymous
as a lvl 47 mag I did not expect to have a good first raid experience..

The puller said that next INC was the mage mini boss, I was excited but never thought that as the only mag on the raid anything would drop for me...

Needless to say, he droped the robe and the crown AND the Staff!!!

I am probly the only person to be that lucky!!

https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=6623&p=3#m10028400002400
RE: great raid )
Oct 11 2001 at 5:40 PM Rating: Decent
Anonymous
I think on my third trip to Hate I walked away with the staff, the gloves, 2 bracers (4 droped total, but i had no need for 4), boots, and the arms. I was happy just to get the staff. The armor was just a bonus :)

Xinit Lifeforge
52nd Gnome Elementalist
Povar Server
Third trip to hate, not necessarily third kill of Magi.

https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=526&p=2#m98802407921501
For Nisumbus
Apr 23 2001 at 6:07 AM Rating: Default

This is just fyi, Shovel of Ponz is the pre-50 earth focus, Mastery Staff is for 50+ pet spells. I looted it Friday night, my first (!) trip to Hate. It is MUCH easier to get now than it was, from all I have heard. Got 2 pieces Apothic also, off the mini-boss ). Good hunting all.

Forte Fortissimo
59 Conjurer
A`dileab de Paegen
Tunare

https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=526&p=3#m98675622869743
on Magi`P`Tasa now
# Apr 08 2001 at 1:57 PM Rating: Default
Anonymous
the staff noz drop from Magi , a mini boss level 55 . this guy always drops staff and some apothic armor.

So, I hope you see, rarity is in the eye of the beholder (so to speak). What I have not found is anyone in our timeline for classic who said I have killed Magi 10 or 20 times and not dropped a staff. I am not saying they don’t exist; only that I have not seen them yet.

I certainly do not wish to engage an argument with the gods of P99. It is only my intention to research the matter more fully and provide the information to you in hopes that you will evaluate.

If the matter is settled and the research is not needed please PM me (or post).

Again, Thank ye kindly for reading.

[Telin]

I’d like to capture every in-era conversation about it in one thread. I read all your posts yesterday and think it’s worth considering. The more evidence the better, so if you can find more sources that would be great.

[gwideon]

Thank you SO much for your response!

[gwideon]

Gnomish Greetings!

I found another website that contains references to Matt Waggoner's website. There is no date on the website, but the same in era references and no mentions of revenants About 2/3 of the way though the text you can see familiar text from other posts:

http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~guardian/epic-mag0.txt
Staff of Earth drops off Magi P'Tasa in Hate. He is on a rare pop out of
several (12) places, so there can be multiples of him up, although I have
never seen more than 2. The drop rate is about 1 in 4. One uber group can do
him, although you probably need an all out raid.

There is a lot more color around the quest in this text post about mobs and encounters than some of the other sites. At the very end of the website you can see they reference sources.

*Lots of Mob Info came from
Matt Waggoner's Ultimate Magician Epic Quest Guide.
( http://matt.waggoner.com/orbofmastery.html )

*All Pictures are from The Mage Compendium.
( http://www.magecompendium.com/ )
Since there are no pictures at all in this all text document, it is likely a saved copy and paste from another website. However, it points to the information on Matt's site as being a trusted source for many mages.



And then I hit the jackpot. I feel stupid for not trying this obvious look up before. The ultimate proof of in period drop rates from the source everyone else is copying (The Wayback Machine look up - Doh):

https://web.archive.org/web/20011005112953/http://matt.waggoner.com/orbofmastery.html
UPDATE: The Staff of Elemental Mastery: Earth *** NO LONGER DROPS OFF INNORUUK ***! It now drops off a new mob in the Plane of Hate, a mini-boss named Magi P'tasa. We need details such as his HP, how much he hits for, and so on. In other words, all the stuff that would go in the fields below.

Thanks to Bahmut Illuminarie of Ayonae Ro for some basic info about Magi P'tasa.

Arkahn Tyr'Zhal of Ayonae Ro sent me the following info:

Magi, like all mini bosses, is a semi-rare spawn with a placeholder on a 72 hour timer + or - 12 hours (60-84 hour spawn). He spawns in 10 different spots:
2 in rev house
2 on top floor in maestro's house
2 with ashenbone drakes on first floor
2 in inny's old lair
2 on second floor of second floor church.

This explains why he can spawn a ton in a few hours, or can sometimes never spawn even if hate is cleared completely. He is NOT always up after patches... but he has a very good chance of being up because he has about a 30% chance of spawning in 10 spots, but sometimes the spots could all be filled with phs (has happened before). He has 32k hp, hits for max of 200-240 (depending on level of the spawn >> 54-56 <<, and he CAN be slowed, malosini'd and debuffed in many other ways. He can be taken out with one full group if you are good and have a 60 shaman.

Drop rates are as follows:
30% chance of dropping the staff
30% chance of dropping apothic robe
40% chance of dropping apothic sleeves, pants, or crown
50% chance of dropping apothic bracer, gloves, or boots

so far he is known to drop up to 3 armor pieces at a time

none of this info except spawn spots has been "verified" yet but i have done a lot of research about the magi :)

I am not sure I can find you any better evidence than this. We have an in period player who did a lot of research and was trusted by the person who wrote the book/website on how to obtain the epic that everyone else quotes and copies (as you have seen from my earlier research). I would think this is conclusive evidence of the drop rate.

I will continue poking around, but doubt I could find any better evidence than this.

Thanks for bearing with me through my research.

[Nycon43]

Excellent job!

[Senn]

Gwideon is the MVP for all mages! This is awesome work, truly awesome.

[Dolalin]

Nice one Gwideon.

[yyrkoon]

good work
i played a magician on blue and couldnt be bothered to finish the epic but now if staff becomes easier to get i might unshelve the toon

on the same page, in the smae message gwiedon refers to we have more info
https://web.archive.org/web/20011005112953/http://matt.waggoner.com/orbofmastery.html


Name: Magi P'tasa
Zone: Plane of Hate
Location: ?
Spawn time: 1 day
Drops: Staff of Elemental Mastery: Earth (uncommon to rare drop), numerous other items
Class: ?
Level: 55
Hit Points: 32000
Casts: Damage shield on himself (he might recast it if you cancel his DS)
Hits for (max): 240
Notes: ?
Appearance: Large male revenant


it says spawn time 1 day, which seems to contradict himself when he says 72 hrs

it says uncommon to rare drop too, which contradicts the 30% drop rate he mentions above

imo, set it to 24 hours +/- 8 hours, staff drops 30% and there will be a lot of happy mages

[Jimjam]

Typically common means 75% and uncommon means 25%.

[gwideon]

It says spawn time 1 day, which seems to contradict himself when he says 72 hrs

It really should say Spawn Time: Special since the mechanics for his spawn are different than most other mobs. He describes that the 10 spots and says that each spawn point has a 30% chance to spawn the Magi. I think on P99 the rate of his spawn is lower that 30% in each spawn location, possibly 10% (since there are 10 different minis that can spawn there). So, I think you are correct that his spawn rate is lower than in period, but the research does not indicate a straight 1 day spawn.
but he has a very good chance of being up because he has about a 30% chance of spawning in 10 spots
In actuality the spawn rate could be many times in 1 day if the 10 spots are staggered in the spawn time.
This explains why he can spawn a ton in a few hours, or can sometimes never spawn even if hate is cleared completely.
This indicates to me that the Magi is far more likely to spawn than the other 9 minis. Or it is possible that a few of the other minis also have a higher rate than some of the filler placeholders. However, since the walk through is about the mage epic, he only catalogs the Magi.

[Sunderfury]

it says spawn time 1 day, which seems to contradict himself when he says 72 hrs

This is not a contradiction. "Spawn time" is a classic thing, it refers to how long the mob takes to initially spawn upon a server reset (such as a patch or zone reset).

Respawn time is how often mob pops after initial pop (spawn time)

[Shroctagan]

Anecdotal I know and not submitting as evidence, but I got my staff on my first Magi kill on live and have pretty much reserved myself to slowly accruing 1 million pp here.

[gwideon]

And once again, Magi falls again to farm team camped out in zone this morning.

[Jimjam]

One of these days we'll have a nerd who is invested enough to write an anti camp spy bot to monitor how these magi kills are going down.

[Senn]

And once again, Magi falls again to farm team camped out in zone this morning.

Eliashib / Lothisu et al ?

[Lothisu]

Eliashib / Lothisu et al ?

/nod, would be nice if Galach and crew would just put all your worries to rest. I'd recommend doing a /who every 5 seconds when you see a Magi spawn.

Side note the drop rate on the staff is way to rare. Can't remember what Inny's drop rate was but currently Magi drops staff like 1 out of every 15-20 kills.

[vahlen]

Yeesh.....honestly had no idea how unrealistically rare the Earth staff is on P99. It was an expensive MQ back in the original, but 1million plat is pretty obvious RMT territory. Sort of makes one wonder why this hasnt been addressed by the Devs.

[gwideon]

Gnomish Greetings!

Well, it took my 11th Magi to drop the staff for me. And, yes I still believe this needs to be addressed for future Magicians.

A very special Thank you to Kittens Who Say Meow for hanging in there and chasing Magi spawns at 5:00 AM in the morning and late night when sane people sleep! To all who answered that call dozens of times, /bow. I am a very grateful gnome to have you all as guildmates!

[nenja]

I forget my exact count, but I've killed Magi close to 20 times with no staff.

I beat EQ never getting my epic for this poor gnome.

I'd estimate my kill count to be approximately the same. The epic was the sole reason I chose to start as a mage when I began playing on P99. Sadly, I had no idea at that time that the staff was the utter disappointment it is currently. I've largely given up on my mage because it feels like there is little hope of getting this item. Though I did for a time, I can't continue to sit on a tracker in Hate and in the off chance I find him, try to get a force together at often weird hours of the day (4-6 am) while maintaining any semblance of hope or enjoyment when I go ~20 kills with 0 drops. It should be noted that my count of 20 are those kills specific to me and not others I helped. Even in those kills to help others - I'd estimate an additional 10+ kills - I've never seen the staff.

For the reasons mentioned, rarity and MQability (resulting in a RMT camp), I've mentioned for years now that this needs to be revised in some manner.

[Lothisu]

Gnomish Greetings!

Well, it took my 11th Magi to drop the staff for me. And, yes I still believe this needs to be addressed for future Magicians.

A very special Thank you to Kittens Who Say Meow for hanging in there and chasing Magi spawns at 5:00 AM in the morning and late night when sane people sleep! To all who answered that call dozens of times, /bow. I am a very grateful gnome to have you all as guildmates!

Congratz on your epic! I hope to someday complete the epic on my mage!

[Izmael]

Why is RMT being continuously brought up? Don't you guys think the staff monitors staff drops closely enough for said RMT? What idiot would pay what would amount to thousands of dollars for what will inevitably get him permabanned sooner or later.

[b11ri11an]

I've just quit playing my mage, to depressing knowing I'll never get my epic. I rerolled as a cleric and completed my epic in 7 days. My mage grows dust in character select.

[Bristlebaner]

If anyone has been following along - there is a former EQ Dev streaming on Twitch. He has interviewed several old time EQ devs.

When asked about epics, it's clear there was very little oversight. Essentially each epic story line was created by one person, and then given to the programmers to build it. It doesn't seem anyone reviewed the difficulty across the spectrum of classes to balance it.

Long story short, I don't get the impression any epics usefulness or power is weighted against it's difficulty. I fully believe we could have just as easily ended up with a mage epic as common as the rogue or cleric if it had been designed by one of those folks. It just so happens the person who designed the mage epic quest line had a much higher bar for what constitutes epic.

[Zippit]

I have both mage and cleric epics so I suppose it makes me qualified to compare them.

Mage epic allows to summon infinite amounts of disposable tanks with 4k hp that quad for 81, nuke and stun, and regen 5% of their HP / tick out of combat. That's 200 hp / tick regeneration rate. (Torpor is 300 / tick as a comparison).

Cleric epic allows to save mana on a spell the cleric can already cast.

One of these two epics is very powerful and game changing (and shall remain rare), while the other is not. Figuring out which is which is left as an exercice to the reader.

Yeah cos level 51 Clerics casting a level 56 spell isnt op lol. Perhaps you overlooked that!

[Christina.]

So did the devs for p99 ever change this? Or do they not care hehe.

[Croco]

So did the devs for p99 ever change this? Or do they not care hehe.

take a wild guess

[Telin]

With the removal of the fire staff, the earth staff may drop slightly more often.

[circlerogue]

With the removal of the fire staff, the earth staff may drop slightly more often.

Hi Telin, could you please comment on what mob the fire staff was removed from? Are you referring to Magi P`Tasa, Mistress of Scorn, or a forsaken revenant? If it was removed from the revenants, how does this affect the drop rate of the earth staff since it only drops from Magi P'Tasa?

Thank you!

[Xrevin]

Hi Telin, could you please comment on what mob the fire staff was removed from? Are you referring to Magi P`Tasa, Mistress of Scorn, or a forsaken revenant? If it was removed from the revenants, how does this affect the drop rate of the earth staff since it only drops from Magi P'Tasa?

Thank you!

^^ this. Bump for visibility. Thanks for your hard work.

[nenja]

With the removal of the fire staff, the earth staff may drop slightly more often.

"May" and "slightly" in the same sentence. Oof. We may now be up to a 0.002 drop rate. Rejoice!

[gwideon]

Gnomish Greetings!

I see this is removed to resolved issues and we had a patch today. Does this mean the drop rate has been increased to 30% as our research has uncovered? I did not see that note in the implementation notes.

Thank ye kindly!

[nenja]

@gwideon

I guess that depends on when this thread was moved to Resolved Issues. I'm guessing it was with the patch as a result of Telin's note above, which I don't feel address or resolves this problem in any way. Especially when he says "may" and "slightly". I'm basically reading that nothing changed to address the issue at hand.

[Hisamori]

Resolved right into File 13, I imagine.

[gwideon]

If the drop rate was not adjusted to be classic (25% - 30%) which I believe was proved beyond a shadow of doubt, please move this back to bugs and not resolved.

(If you adjust the damage to classic, then this should also be fixed)

Thank ye kindly

[nenja]

Agreed. To leave it as-is simply shows a support for the RMT camp it has become.

[MaCtastic]

Has the drop rate been modified?

[Bitie]

I'm curious about this as well. Are you able to confirm that the drop rate was increased? Telin's previous post is a little unclear,

Thanks in advance!

[Liia]

Riot has killed 2 since. No staff on both.

[nenja]

Riot has killed 2 since. No staff on both.

I'm not sure two kills - what would equate to a 50% drop rate - provides a reasonable data set. Or are you saying Riot typically sees one every two kills? If the latter, that's a whole other discussion. :D

[Jimjam]

.25 drop rate, 2 kills is odds on not to have a drop either time (.75 x .75 = 0.5625). Of course, insufficient data to draw many meaningful conclusions.

[Nirgon]

Agreed. To leave it as-is simply shows a support for the RMT camp it has become.

This would never happen on green.

Also - posting allegations like this publicly is against TOS. Furthermore, it is a violation of the PNP to do so publicly or privately without proof.