Runed Fighters Staff vs Tranquil Staff

[saucer]

Anyone care to share their opinions and hopefully back them up. Is it only the proc that makes TStaff better?

[maestrom]

Proc + better ratio.

[baalzy]

19/20 vs 29/30? Slightly better ratio on the Tstaff, but RFS would get more hits = more dmg bonus applied. RFS probably would win in a drawn-out fight on melee DPS.

But Tstaff proc is what makes it the hands down win.

[Rejuvenation]

T staff will get a higher damage bonus due to the delay when that gets implemented.

[Azzbad]

T staff is so much better its not close =P

[Kender]

runed fighter staff got nerfed to 38/40 at some stage making t staff even better due to damage bonuses getting applied more often

[Hasbinbad]

runed fighter staff got nerfed to 38/40 at some stage making t staff even better due to damage bonuses getting applied more often
did it? it's still listed on alla as 19/20

[blammo]

runed fighter staff got nerfed to 38/40 at some stage making t staff even better due to damage bonuses getting applied more often

wrong. the item dropped by the mob became Imbued Fighters Staff.

RFS retained its original stats.

[Kender]

oh righto then 8)

[Knuckle]

Tranquil Staff is by far the superior weapon in any situation where you want an unresistable 15 second stun. Even the nerfed T Staff on VZTZ was my god cane.

[SUSUGAM]

Tranquil Staff is by far the superior weapon in any situation where you want an unresistable 15 second stun. Even the nerfed T Staff on VZTZ was my god cane.

lmfao 15 second stun

[Rais]

Tranquil Staff is by far the superior weapon in any situation where you want an unresistable 15 second stun. Even the nerfed T Staff on VZTZ was my god cane.

Not on this server. Even the stun is broken atm. Mobs still attack before it wears off.

[Fromage]

lmfao 15 second stun

roflmfaobbq~!

[Haul]

Tranquil Staff is by far the superior weapon in any situation where you want an unresistable 15 second stun. Even the nerfed T Staff on VZTZ was my god cane.

I support this.

[wehrmacht]

Tranquil Staff is by far the superior weapon in any situation where you want an unresistable 15 second stun.

I don't think Knuckle played EQ live so he's going off whatever ridiculous implementation TZVZ used.

I had first Tstaff that dropped on SZ and the stun usually lasted probably 3 seconds. You could proc on top of a proc that already went off and extend the stun's duration though.

[Koota]

You could proc on top of a proc that already went off and extend the stun's duration though.

Not here, sadly

[anthony210]

Here the stun doesnt last more than a couple seconds usually. Its almost like a short mez, soon as something hits the mob it is no longer stunned. I remember this stun lasting much longer on live but its been reported and devs have stated it "working as intended" so I guess this is how it was.

On topic though. The ratio on the Tstaff is better than the RFS plus it has a 120dd proc/stun. Hands down the Tstaff wins IMO.

[Azzbad]

Not here, sadly

Yes here; Kanras fixed it 2 patches ago.

[Asher]

T staff will get a higher damage bonus due to the delay when that gets implemented.

The 2hander Damage Bonus that was added for was weapons with a delay =>40 if I recall correctly. Tranquil Staff will not be affected by this.

Asher

[Littlegyno]

Yea on live it was like 3-4 seconds. Still got raped when it proced.

[baalzy]

The 2hander Damage Bonus that was added for was weapons with a delay =>40 if I recall correctly. Tranquil Staff will not be affected by this.

Asher

It lowered the bonus on 2h weapons below ~30 delay, as well as raising the bonus on <40 delay, so RFS will have a lower dmg bonus then Tstaff when the patch goes in.

[Rejuvenation]

Weapons below 28 delay receive the 1h DMG bonus when the change goes in.

[hablabba]

Don't think this patch happens until a month or two before Velious. Correct me if I'm wrong. Gives the RFS a nice chunk of time (5-6 months left?) to be an absolute beast of a weapon.

Anyone know about when they nerf the drop to IFS?

[Knuckle]

15 seconds slight exaggeration, was it originally pre nerf about 7 or 8 seconds?

[Kassel]

15 seconds slight exaggeration, was it originally pre nerf about 7 or 8 seconds?

Nope, you fail

[Rais]

Yes here; Kanras fixed it 2 patches ago.


Fixed it so that it could stack and not wear off. Although when the proc lands, mobs are stunned for a moment, and then are still able to attack you before the message wears off. I have provided logs and bug reported. It's still not working.

[Knuckle]

Nope, you fail

oh man my nerd cred took a hit, yeah i didnt play a monk on live i thought thats what it was, s my d n'gr f'gt

[loobusk]

Tranquil Staff is by far the superior weapon in any situation where you want an unresistable 15 second stun. Even the nerfed T Staff on VZTZ was my god cane.

You sure it wasn't a 15 hour stun?

[Knuckle]

You sure it wasn't a 15 hour stun?

you sure your girl went out with her friends last night?

[Massive Marc]

^^ fail.

[Treats]

The Runed Fighter's Staff is the best weapon in the game currently. It's the best and highest damage per second of any weapon because of damage bonus. This is the reason it was removed -- Insane DPS. First they removed it. Then they altered damage bonus on two handed weapons under 28 delay (There were no other two handed weapons in the game at that time under 28). It was just too powerful. This is the same reason why the Moss Covered Twig and Barbed Scale Whip were moved to off hand only (Off hand damage is (Offense + Strength) / 100 x Weapon damage -- No damage bonus).

Prior to the patch here, all two handed weapons had the same damage bonus.

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20000919.html

I haven't had a chance to parse both of them (No T staff currently) but I would venture a guess that the RFS does about 15-30 more damage per second than the T Staff. They are basically the same ratio but the RFS has 10 less delay. You simply have more chances to hit with it. For every two rounds you are applying the damage bonus with the T staff the RFS is getting three. Factor in double attacks when you don't miss and thats an extra 34 damage every second or two with max haste.

Would like to have someone 50+ with both weapons post here to see how much more it really is.

[baalzy]

Silver swiftblade has 24 delay.

But who cares, it's a ranger weapon.

In terms of pure melee I wouldn't doubt the RFS wins, however the utility and added damage of the tstaff proc is really nice and would still make it the better weapon unless you absolutely did not want to take hate even for a second(couple procs in a row can steal hate really fast even if you're FD'ing regularly).

[Treats]

Oops my bad, couldn't think of any when I made the post ;/

[kbnexus]

Do me a favor - right click your RFS and look at the damage bonus, then have someone link you a tstaff and look at the damage bonus. Then come back into this thread and post your findings. At level 60 its not even close. (29 damage bonus to 12 damage bonus, or around those numbers)

[Widan]

Silver swiftblade has 24 delay.


So if one was leveling up a ranger would it be more dps to use the Swiftblade until that patch goes in and not bother trying to dual wield?

[Treats]

Do me a favor - right click your RFS and look at the damage bonus, then have someone link you a tstaff and look at the damage bonus. Then come back into this thread and post your findings. At level 60 its not even close. (29 damage bonus to 12 damage bonus, or around those numbers)

Kanras fixed the damage bonuses. The correct damage bonus isn't displayed on the item. At level 60 your minimum hit with both the RFS and T staff is 18 (17 damage bonus).

[baalzy]

So if one was leveling up a ranger would it be more dps to use the Swiftblade until that patch goes in and not bother trying to dual wield?

Depending on your budget the swiftblade would likely be the best DPS you could get as a ranger for a good while. You'd need some pretty killer 1handed weapons to beat it, but dual wielding at the top end will always be more DPS then 2handers.

moss covered twig/barbed scale whip + guard captain mallet I'd think would out DPS the swiftblade, but would also be pricier.

Once the twig/whip get nerfed you'd probably go mallet + crystalline short sword/green jade axe. Most other weapons with similar or better ratios have procs and as a ranger you do NOT want procs since they'll get you murdered.

I'm not sure what the prices on any of these items, it's just been my experience that the swiftblade is a relatively common drop in Chardok. Combine that with it being ranger only and there not being a whole lot of rangers, I'd assume the price is pretty low on one.

TLDR; Given infinite money, dual wielding will always win. If you want to kickass and chew gum on a budget, go with the swiftblade.

[baalzy]

Kanras fixed the damage bonuses. The correct damage bonus isn't displayed on the item. At level 60 your minimum hit with both the RFS and T staff is 18 (17 damage bonus).

^^^^^^^^^^

Your client is lying to you because it does the calculation based on what Titanium thinks and displays that, the bonus on the server side is (level - 25)/2 for 2handed weapons regardless of the delay. This was a very recent change.

[Widan]

moss covered twig/barbed scale whip + guard captain mallet I'd think would out DPS the swiftblade, but would also be pricier.

Once the twig/whip get nerfed you'd probably go mallet + crystalline short sword/green jade axe. Most other weapons with similar or better ratios have procs and as a ranger you do NOT want procs since they'll get you murdered.


Damage bonus is only applied to the primary weapon right? So would a Wurmslayer be the best available offhand weapon since it has such a great ratio?

Thanks for your replies btw.

[baalzy]

Wurmslayer would be a great choice for offhand. Keep in mind it'll also gets nerfed, but for now, yes you're correct the Wurmslayer is the best offhand.

[Enderenter]

You'd need some pretty killer 1handed weapons to beat it, but dual wielding at the top end will always be more DPS then 2handers.


Does this statement apply only to rangers? If not, does it also apply to monks? If so, what are the 1 handers in Kunark/Classic that beat T-staff/RFS?

Just curious, I had always thought 2 handers were the way to go for highest DPS, but haven't ever parsed anything myself.

[baalzy]

After looking, maybe I'm wrong. It's really hard to tell just by looking at stats without parses. Using parses from Monkly-Business ect.. doesn't really work either since P99 doesn't use the exact same dmg formulas as live did (on average, melee do more damage here then they did on live)

Monks get Ton Po's stick (1.2 dmg/delay ratio)Tstaff (.97 ), and RFS (.96)

Rangers get herbalist spade (.91), Woodsman Staff(.89), Rod of Mourning (.81) as their 3 highest non-VP items (interestingly, the spade & woodsman both beat any VP item for pure ratio for 2handed ranger items.

Best monk non-VP 1handers:
Staff of shielding(.61), Adamantite Club (.6), Guard captains mallet (.55)
Guard mallet/adamantite club would likely be the most DPS'ing combo when accounting for main-hand dmg bonus & procs (not sure if Stunning blow has a DD component?)

best ranger non-VP 1handers:
Guard mallet(.55), jagged blade of mourning(.53) as the best to use.

Since your off-hand doesn't always attack everytime your delay is up due to DW skill you can't do a straight addition of the ratios. If you could it would be pretty cut and dry for the ranger being ahead with 1handers, not so much with a monk. I think a monk with Ton Po's stick would be able to outdamage any other combination of weapons a different monk or a ranger could use (factoring the better proc on it).

It would take a better understanding of the dmg formulas used by P99 and a lot more mathcraft then I'm willing/capable of putting in to determine without a doubt.
Just for completeness:
Best warrior 2handers: Herb spade (.91), staff of battle (.84), Polished Naginata (.81)
1hander: Blade of the black dragon eye(.58), Warding Star (.58), guard mallet(.55), fist of zek(.53)

Purposely left out MCT/BSW because they get nerfed. BOTBDE and WS won't drop forever, but the ones that exist will always be awesome.

Because I'm bored throwing in SK/Pally 2handers. Leaving rogues out because they cant use 2handers.
SK
Identical to warrior 2handers.
Pally
Also identical to warriors.


Interesting factoid:

Theres no reason a warrior shouldn't be able to out melee DPS a ranger if the warrior is in full DPS gear. Higher skill caps (correct me if I'm wrong, maybe its just pallys/SKs that have weaker melee skill caps), the same or better ratios for all their weapons, and critical hits.

[AexDestroy]

runed fighter staff got nerfed to 38/40 at some stage making t staff even better due to damage bonuses getting applied more often

not true

[Envious]

RFS on live was hands down the best monk dps 2h'er.

Hands down.

[Envious]

Here, who knows.

But on Live, RFS was complete godmode PvE dps. Not sure why, but somehow thats just how it worked out.

[Skope]

What was the deal with the magical number of 40 delay? was it an added damage bonus for 40 and over or vice versa?

[Brinkman]

What was the deal with the magical number of 40 delay? was it an added damage bonus for 40 and over or vice versa?

As stated before 2H weapons BELOW 28 dly will have the 1H damage bonus applied. 2H weapons with 28 or higher get the 2H bonus and the higher the dly is, the Damage bonus is supposed to scale up ( I dont know the formula) At 40 dly there is large upgrade to the dmg bonus, but again I dont recall the formula, I just know thats how it worked.

[Boomlaor]

This chart shows how the dmg bonus works on live.

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/dmgbonus.html

[Troy]

^^^^^^^^^^

Your client is lying to you because it does the calculation based on what Titanium thinks and displays that, the bonus on the server side is (level - 25)/2 for 2handed weapons regardless of the delay. This was a very recent change.

Is this true? Client is lying about 2h weapon dmg bonus?

[KilyenaMage]

lmfao 15 second stun


Sadly on VZTZ it was like an 8 second stun.

I love how Knuckle **STILL** about killing lvl 50s in cloth armor with his epiced Tstaff Monk. Lots of skills there brew.

[Motec]

RFS. No competition DPS wise. The proc on staff is shit all in raw DPS addition.

Tanking, Tstaff.
Tanking casters 2man, RFS. The melee push on it is huge.

If one or the other, I'd take an RFS any day.