Everquest vs Modernity an Adventure through Adversity

[magnetaress]

I was sitting and nonchalantly nibbling my mostly vegan gyros savoring the greek yogurt dressing and the not-so-authentic Mediterranean spices. I thought to myself. Why am I still playing this damn game? Why is it so fun?

Depth. There's still 'stuff I haven't done'. On my bucket list. Also, it presents a mindful distraction that requires concentration and planning. It always seems to reside in the back of our heads. "How am I going to get my tailoring skill to 100 on my newest alt"? There are options, choices, some good, some bad. But the permutations become endless when we add in "how will I twink this character?", or maybe I don't even want to?! Lets take the slow relaxing road... Or what about alchemy?!

Anyway I can't profess to say what the devs and designers knew or didn't know when creating EQ. I do know they probably DM'd a few table top adventures, and that one way to engage players is to make really engaging and challenging scenarios. When we play EQ and we need more arrows, at least before the days of endless quivers and automated crafting like in WoW, we had to choose how much bag space to fill with arrows, arrow supplies, a quiver, and fletching kit. We had to make a conscious decision to sit and fletch some new arrows. Arrows did not stack infinitely, and took up a reasonable amount of space. Another fine example is looting. Do we loot during combat? Risking missing a few precious auto-attacks? Do I carry those big heavy pelts around? Am I going to be crafting or going straight for befallen and CB belts? The game begins to take on a whole not more depth and individuality and meaning when we can decide and have the freedom to take the slow route, make multiple trips to the bank. Buy the cheaper 'large box' as a temporary stop gap so we can hoard even more pelts. Soon we begin to see how the game is played, and play it uniquely. Some people probably just save up the platinum and make that first trip to buy their medicine bags, or grab some lexicons from the casters guild.

When playing in dungeons and out in the world questing. Yeah, quests are formuliac, but we find individual oddities, quirks, bugs, quests the designers took an extra day to add a few more colorful steps to, in order to create unqiness, individuality. Not every quest is "gather a gnoll fang click turn in". Sometimes when we adventure throughout the world, collecting odd bits and ends in our banks only to figure out later that rotten plank had a greater purpose, then the world really comes alive. Our invisiblity spells aren't 5 second duration 'agro fades'. They have real strategic use, and really add depth, its always handy to carry an extra insta click invis pot from the merchent or a player with alchemy, no matter the class. Just incase. Sitting in the bottom of a hole in the terrain hides us from monsters! Very few games really 'care' about situational awareness and strategic planning the way EQ does.

I love EQ for its quirks, for how much effort is involved in 'looting' and for having to chose, do I leave piles of bone chips around and go only for that cracked wood staff?

Thanks for taking the time to read. This is by no means a complete or authoritative discussion on the topic of why this game is still engaging when so many newer and shinier and much "easier" much more automated games exist that just don't have the same charm for whatever reasons. Sorry for the word syrup. I really needed to get this out of my head and into the ethers. Into the gods head.

I love you all. And thank you for participating in this adventure with me.

~your dear lady :cool::p:D;)

[Sibelia1]

ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[magnetaress]

I just spent an hour sitting down and organizing my spellbook. I am really proud of how it turned out. Very neat and orderly, easy to find the right nuke for the right job! Not to cluttered, room to grow ! XD

*This is MY spell book!*

[magnetaress]

My characters all have different outfits depending on what the main event is :D

[Baler]

this could explain why young people are now embracing dungeons and dragons

[BlackBellamy]

https://imgur.com/4G7lUXN.gif

[BlackBellamy]

https://imgur.com/aKR6ybA.jpg

[magnetaress]

https://imgur.com/aKR6ybA.jpg

*suggests round glasses and a setting powder to eliminate that glassy studio lighting look*

[magnetaress]

While crafting metal bits, to craft metal studs, to craft studded leather armor, I found the optimal bag orginization and /autoinv and UI window placement to quickly craft, this simulated an efficient work space and well organized elf mind. /pras brad

[magnetaress]

Yesterday a gentlegnome gave me a dagger of dropping, he refused payment for it, yet I really wanted to pay him, I accidentally sold it to a merchant and the merchant wanted my entire life savings for it back :( I decided against using this merchant ever again. Merchents are greedy :(

[Sibelia1]

Yesterday a gentlegnome gave me a dagger of dropping, he refused payment for it, yet I really wanted to pay him, I accidentally sold it to a merchant and the merchant wanted my entire life savings for it back :( I decided against using this merchant ever again. Merchents are greedy :(

*pat pat*

good post

[Bigsham]

feels great not reading forum tranny stories !

[Sibelia1]

feels great not reading forum tranny stories !

breh u are so thirsty lmao:o:eek:

[magnetaress]

I put *Safe Fall* into use today. I swear the road to high pass is deliberately treacherous, almost like the devs were playing a game of 'how can we get people to run off the edge of a cliff'. I am glad I know to look before I leap )

This run actually killed my wizard a few weeks ago because she didnt: Buy levitate, Didn't cast levitate, autoran AFK LOL :(

[Mblake81]

I put *Safe Fall* into use today. I swear the road to high pass is deliberately treacherous

EQ3 will have invisible walls so the controller folks can't hurt themselves, don't worry.

[Jimjam]

Don’t forget the micro transaction fastpass to teleport to the end of the valley and skip the ascent.

[Mblake81]

Don’t forget the micro transaction fastpass to teleport to the end of the valley and skip the ascent.

in 4k 60fps

[magnetaress]

in 4k 60fps

heheheehehe

[JurisDictum]

EQ was inspired by Dungeons and Dragons. All the subsequent MMOs were inspired by other MMOs and computer games. This is part of the reason EQ feels like a real fantasy world; compared to WoW, which is more like playing in a giant comic book.*

I think that a game that wanted to make really beautiful high fantasy/anime blend of a world could be very successful. Games look so....modern these days. Taste is a completely overlooked component of "quality." High quality seems to equal high graphical demand as far as game producers are concerned.

Create a compelling world first. Then let the rest develop from there. Just like that tedious writer Tolkien. Or Rowling, or Lewis, or Martin**. Or any other writer that created a compelling fantasy world that carried their rather sub-par writing ability into international fame.


* WoW was based partially on Warcraft 3, which was based in part on a unreleased game that was like a comic book style "Quest" game.

** All these guys were such bad writers they did that annoying "JR JK JLOL" crap before their last name.

[Mblake81]

Meridian 59 (https://youtu.be/8x3JiS6EIz0?t=10) - High fantasy world, first 3D mmorpg
Ultima Online -the fully online multiplayer version of Ultima mmorpg
Everquest - MUDS & D&D mmorpg
DAoC - King Arthur realms pvp type mmo with less focus on environment.
Shadowbane - Fully pvp, guild vs. guild mmo with less focus on environment.
Starwars Galaxies - star wars franchise theme skill based mmorpg.
Dungeons and Dragons online - forgettable D&D mmo. Little to any RP in my experience there.
WoW - Themepark video game with a focus on quality of life and hiring celebrities to do PC game commercials.

*The first three in the list have the themes I like and that sense of wonder the early game engines can provide, the monsters and the environments.
The same thing holds true for me with the first two Thief 1 & 2. I am not taken by modern game engines with their shiny plastic and clutter for the sake of ultra realism.

https://i.imgur.com/1SJcC1h.jpg

Daggerfall unity with D.R.E.A.M mod
https://i.imgur.com/lpQ8rgS.jpg
^ Its good they stayed true to the original art style but I don't like the plastic digital look of the character in that photo.

[magnetaress]

Meridian 59 (https://youtu.be/8x3JiS6EIz0?t=10) - High fantasy world, first 3D mmorpg
Ultima Online -the fully online multiplayer version of Ultima mmorpg
Everquest - MUDS & D&D mmorpg
DAoC - King Arthur realms pvp type mmo with less focus on environment.
Shadowbane - Fully pvp, guild vs. guild mmo with less focus on environment.
Starwars Galaxies - star wars franchise theme skill based mmorpg.
Dungeons and Dragons online - forgettable D&D mmo. Little to any RP in my experience there.
WoW - Themepark video game with a focus on quality of life and hiring celebrities to do PC game commercials.

*The first three in the list have the themes I like and that sense of wonder the early game engines can provide, the monsters and the environments.
The same thing holds true for me with the first two Thief 1 & 2. I am not taken by modern game engines with their shiny plastic and clutter for the sake of ultra realism.

Yeah.

This is so hard to communicate to contemporary gamers and developers.

I kinda prefer the wierdness and customness of my own 2cnd edition dnd, i feel like 3rd was good, but it lost touch with something when they went 3r, i havent tried 5e

there are a lot of '2e' style spin offs from other developers that are pretty good so i hear but i never made the friends to play them in real life

I love how Ultima simulated bread making in their single player game, and made it a tedious chore, but it was so rewarding when I started churning out the bread dough.

----------------------------

Last night in Everquest I did a lot of 'work' for the Coalition of Tradesfolk 'Illicit' it was hours of courier duty, running back and forth, and ensuring the operation ran smoothly. I was richly rewarded by getting to know every player in Freeport and they welcomed me into the fold. ;)

[magnetaress]

I am enjoying how my spiderling silk doesnt stack on green, can we leave it this way?

It is clever to carry around a small sewing kit.

[magnetaress]

So I thot I would test drive EQ2 for a bit between med cycles to see what the city of neriak would look like in the year 2048.

Here are some of my thoughts.


To much automation
Everything is a tooltip, you can't figure out how to play without a tooltip telling u how u should play
To much information on screen
Glowy shit everywhere with no real in game graphics? Can't disable it? Switch to a low fy dirt pile look?
Overlysimplification of 'primary stats'
Bloat of secondary stats
Lack of realism in game interaction with NPCs and world
Cartoony feel (yes I know EQ1 is terrible too, but not this bad)
Inventory bloat... It is quite obvious the inventory was designed for 'later expansion' and purchases...
A lot of cut and pasted replicated gimmicks in the visual world... the 'rifts' and 'logs' everywhere...


Now some pros

SOME (definately not all) of the art is definately $$$ worthy and the artists should be rich motherfuckers
The dialog is a bit more fluffy, better then the wierd [nerdspeech] monologues & paragraphs old NPCquests like EQ and even ultima and BG and planescape torment tended to engage in.

Those elf statues crawling out of the walls of neriak.

[magnetaress]

Later thots as no game has gotten this right...

*Slow down your animation cycles on like everything, hotbars shouldnt flash at 170hz.. try 5hz... make that lil sword icon spin a lil slower and smoother
*pace npcs a bit, sometimes stuff feels a bit rushed, sped up, hyper, make them breath slower, make them take a bit longer to stand up... randomize some of this with several different kinds of animations...

(in otherwords programmers all design stuff that looks like it is overdosing on meth? Coincidence?)

[magnetaress]

*players need to be able to get lost and confused in the world don't hand them stuff on a silver platter it is hard to fall in love with waypoints and 'tubes'
***it is easy to fall in love with neriak and its dark corners once you've spent a day wandering around it, add some nice details to discover and it becomes even more charming and homey
*get rid of in game maps, players should be making their own real tangible maps and notebooks

[magnetaress]

I feel like EQ2 has a lot of the EQ1 engine elements, but it was upgraded with some of 'second lifes' QoL ideas, I feel like the designers probably drew inspiration from one or the other, but didn't think about how this would emotionally impact the players.

Convenience is the bane of life, once everything becomes easy, it all blurrs together and then you are just a skeleton sitting in front of a computer for archaeologists to find.

[Rick Sanchez]

OP has wayyy to much time on his hands.

[magnetaress]

A prime example of how modern convenience and quality of life disrupts immersion and connection towards the world and ones character and characters profession.

In EQ2 a ranger goes out to harvest some wood to craft some arrows... immediately they click on a glowing log on the ground and the wood chips get automatically sorted into their 'wood carrying bag' the ranger doesn't have an axe, the character 'magically animates with one'.

The proper way to do this is to make the character fumble around in the dark in the newbie city, perhaps even going through several areas and find the smith or lumberjacks or a npc or even player lumberjack and discover they need to purchase an axe to chop wood. The wood goes into their bag but takes up space, and needs to be sorted around once they find a way to harvest it from something, or they kill treants or whatever that drop wood.

Now, there are a few ways this can be enhanced, a fletcher who is a blacksmith can create an iron axe which, maybe harvests 5% faster, but there is no tooltip that says this, the axe just feels better and maybe a smart player can count down how long it takes to get some wood. Even better maybe there is some slight randomness in this and a player can craft an exceptionally nice iron axe that chops at like 8% speed, yes this is minecraft without the tooltips and voxels now. Now later on more complicated processes can exist for 'steel axes' and players can trade for these on the player run market, npcs shouldn't be handing these out for free or quest rewards or 2cp. Players should be a better source for this stuff then the NPCs and at best npcs should hand out maybe the most basic equipment.

[magnetaress]

OP has wayyy to much time on his hands.

Perhaps but at least I am not spending it thinking of pornstar character names.

[magnetaress]

This thread is my new manifesto, maybe one day I will be 80 yrs old and ascend to Brads heavenly realm and this will bear fruit and multiply.

[magnetaress]

https://i.imgur.com/O0NM439.jpg

[magnetaress]

OP has wayyy to much time on his hands.

You must be a game developer rejecting intelligent feedback from a designer astheticist. who you'm think is implying you are dumb or bad.

You are just disconnected from your reality is all, thats OK, these games are generally designed for such people. On accident a Bradvatar descends from the heavenly planes and designs a good game though.

The point of these games is to corrupt and replace life, not mock and mimick life.

[magnetaress]

https://i.imgur.com/0F0SgEl.png

I am friends with the lizards... what does this even mean?

[Sibelia1]

You must be a game developer rejecting intelligent feedback from a designer astheticist. who you'm think is implying you are dumb or bad.

You are just disconnected from your reality is all, thats OK, these games are generally designed for such people. On accident a Bradvatar descends from the heavenly planes and designs a good game though.

The point of these games is to corrupt and replace life, not mock and mimick life.
the point of the games is so Brad could play as a little elfin maiden. I garantee you his secret main was.

https://i.imgur.com/0F0SgEl.png

I am friends with the lizards... what does this even mean?

[magnetaress]

Check out these calves and glutes, that is a climber.

https://i.imgur.com/RZCjUS5.png

IMO the siren illusion stick... is pretty good. ;)

https://i.imgur.com/jmIpYGU.png

I was going to make an entirely seperate subforum for this, and probably still will...

***** TRIGGER WARN'N U BEEN WARNED ********



Has anyone seen Brad and Holly in the same room together ever?



***** TRIGGER WARN'N U BEEN WARNED ********

the point of the games is so Brad could play as a little elfin maiden. I garantee you his secret main was.

I believe this.


******** Next elf sim created I hope obfuscates and randomizes the drops, rarity, and stats on everything. Not totally, we should be able to guess a certain rare froglock would drop a certain rare belt in a certain general area.. but it should be near impossible to predict. We could put points in to CHA but no one will ever see the bonus's any piece of gear or buff gives beyond investigating the resulting effects. Not to use as an excuse for lazy programming, everything that exists should have an effect. Item info once examined may say 'this robe is very glamorous'. Conversely there could be levels of this or randomization. 'This is a very attractive pair of gloves'. 'These gloves surely indicate a noble station'. Spells to detect if an item is 'cursed' or not but not how cursed it is... would be legit. Same with 'this is a pretty powerful magic radiating from this item, this item radiates fire magic, abjuration magic perhaps as the next tier spell would divine...' no +10 to FR bullshit.

Also, hope it simplifies the UI to the only basic needed elements and does not include commands batch behavior macros or anything that will enable or ease any kind of botting or automation. If anything games should be difficult to play and these types of situations scenarios should be very hard to program around. It should be very hard for the software to guess were to click next. There should definitely not be an exp bar or progress meters.

Further more I would make use of signed and trusted cpu code to make it non-trivial to circumvent packet encryption and memory locs. etc...

If I am going to play with a bot, I want it to have machine learning and need an audio visual processor, text and language recognition, etc... the thing should be complex enough to start to develop feelings and care about what it's doing and how it is perceived by other bots. To be able to become confused, glitched, and sometimes need assistance.

Resources should be scarce and special items above and beyond the ken of what players can produce with lots of effort on their own part should be very rare and exciting and one of a kind... for like a year of the servers life cycle.

That would be damn near perfect elf aka siren simulator.

TLDR I wish I wasn't so lazy and could program and wasn't mentally ill :(

[Bigsham]

Looking very feminine in those pics

[magnetaress]

Looking very feminine in those pics

I really don't want to disagree with you. However I feel like the Luclin female basically had this happen.

https://i.imgur.com/9V90HIx.gif

The top one has a lot of male flaws in my eyes.

Otherwise thanks, I am trending towards the Siren look lately. ;p

[magnetaress]

Spell rotations are a fake complexity & skill trap. They actually create monodimensionality and stifle players creativity, role play, and meta gaming.

I want to say wow like rotations were fun for all of 5 minutes, but broke my immersion and I felt like wasn't in control of my character or actions.

[Bigsham]

or your life

[Sibelia1]

Mario I am not sure if you understand this, but you are super attracted to something about magnetaress. Idk what your life situation is, but I think you need to go pursue IRL mating among your peers. You are fucking horny.

[Kaveh]

or your life

I don’t generally like your posts Mario but this one made me lol

How’s Florida?

[magnetaress]

mario loves me, its true, floridas warm ) and sunny today

[Sibelia1]

I want to say wow like rotations were fun for all of 5 minutes, but broke my immersion and I felt like wasn't in control of my character or actions.

That's exactly right. The model captures work, not skill or fun. So i led a guild united around love of my face kind of like a cult icon and it was kind of rewarding.

[Bigsham]

I don’t generally like your posts Mario but this one made me lol

How’s Florida?

Corona wave washed through and infected 90% of the people from miami to WPB i am happy to say i survived but was sick for almost 5 weeks

[magnetaress]

Corona wave washed through and infected 90% of the people from miami to WPB i am happy to say i survived but was sick for almost 5 weeks

:( sorry to hear that, i think florida is pretty much done with this version of the virus tho.

[magnetaress]

EQ can be a really chilled out and easy game from an RPd non power gaming perspective. While it has some imbalance and OP classes in reality power almost never comes directly from the player and more so the players in game connections to other players and Npcs and the factions they are aligned with. Just something less obvious about EQ that makes it special.

Updating my MMORPG manifesto with some more scattered thots.

[Woke Locc]

Corona wave washed through and infected 90% of the people from miami to WPB i am happy to say i survived but was sick for almost 5 weeks

I'm happy you survived too, ya big butthead.

[magnetaress]

I'm happy you survived too, ya big butthead.

#metoo

[aaezil]

Pity reply

[magnetaress]

Admit it. I would make an amazing game if no drugs.

[Bigsham]

i keep getting better for 2-3 days then symptoms pop up , close to 6 weeks

people think everyone is ready to go back to work and lift the quarantine and they have no idea what its like to get covid. Sure most have mild symptoms

but most dont