With no disrespect intended to AV...but Jamar Darkmoon...not nice

[casdegere]

This camp has been running pretty smoothly...everyone has been cooperating, taking turns until...

I will quote Uthgaard's words here as well:

It's not a raid target. It's not a group encounter. It's a single mob that can be soloed by anyone wanting it. If you want it, get in line yourself and wait, or buy it from someone else. But you won't be holding it for anyone or 'passing it off' to people anymore.

I want to also say that I have had no contact with this person until now and I am only providing facts of what occurred this morning. And now as I wait for my turn at a Prod.

[ereur]

"see child I am much older than you and you are not deserving of my respect"

What an asshat.

[Rais]

If you want it, get in line yourself and wait, or buy it from someone else. But you won't be holding it for anyone or 'passing it off' to people anymore.

Yet you're getting in line for another guild mate of yours? No disrespect intended :D

But yea, that camp is such bs. People can be dicks to the max. Some simple respect goes a long way on this server, and people remember it. I hope things work out and you get your prod.

[inyane]

so what was the final resolution?

[baalzy]

TLDR:

I'd have found the forum post, given him the link and then stopped tlakign to him.

If he still insisted it was under his guild control after 20min. Petition.

[Amelinda]

The final resolution is FIFO and why in the world was this board worthy people?

[Holey]

RnF is way better

[Rhambuk]

Just goes to show no matter how much proof of the rules you actually have, people are going to try and squirm n worm their way into getting what they want.

Disgraceful.

[Calabee]

funny reading ;p

[soup]

Isn't the FIFO thing ONLY that camp, and not any and all soloable camps?

[Marley]

/mourn Kimmbo's corpse .. Thats all i got outta this. RnF yo

[Llabak]

The final resolution is FIFO and why in the world was this board worthy people?


As someone who teaches collegiate accounting for a living, I support this message.

[Amelinda]

Isn't the FIFO thing ONLY that camp, and not any and all soloable camps?

Negative.

[Salty]

prod is serious business

[Rais]

Camp rules mainly address named mobs, not xp trash.

If it's a named, and you want it, get on it, not around 3 corners, 2 closed doors and out of sight of it because you can pull it easier with the pathing bug in the middle.
If it's a named that can spawn anywhere, you can't really camp it, so it's whoever engages it first.
If it's an xp mob, just share the damn things. If you go pulling from the immediate vicinity of other groups, you're just escalating drama, because then they'll do the same thing to you, and neither group is going to average out ahead in the process. Apply some common sense, decency, and step back and look at the situation. Social reversibility is understood by 6 year olds, don't tell me anyone on this server can't manage it.

As for enforcing it, a lot of times it's he said-she said and everyone has an excuse. The average camp dispute takes an hour to resolve with logs, and even then it's still not a sure thing. And after that hour, everyone present will spam whoever made whatever decision with tells isolating single lines or words from the rules to try to twist the situation in their favor. You can't always break a camp dispute decision down into a single facet. It usually involves a comprehensive understanding of the situation, and in most cases, a lot of guessing over who's telling how much of the truth. And then following that, there's the infantile raging by at least one person who just can't let it go, and then if you suspend them to let them cool off, they'll just start spamming threads on the forums and wasting more time. By the time they've blown their whine wad, we're up to around 2.5 hours for a camp dispute. That shit is ridiculous.

If both parties are acting like babies and equally at fault, I'll eject everyone. It wouldn't matter if we had 50 guides, we still wouldn't have the time to deal with it every dispute. If you need to externalize all common sense, and expect us to come bring it to the table for you, don't expect us to do it with a smile, because there is always more to do, and players who need help through no fault of their own are higher on my priority list than people who 99% of the time are adults and can't act like it.

Fact is, one side will always come out pissed about the result of any camp dispute, and claim injustice, or favoritism, or that we suspended you for something you said in guildchat when it was really the juvenile hate tells you were sending, or whatever else justifies it to the rocks rattling around in their head. If you can't reach a resolution on your own, you really don't have any room to complain when someone else comes and reaches it for you.



And for this camp that was posted:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=34909


Don't nitpick it or attempt to paint the decision with broad strokes and apply it to other camps. Since we have been forced to spend 6 hours in the past 2 days dealing with the infantile drama at that camp, it's simplified so people can't try to weasel gray areas and expect us to come sort it out for them.

It's not a raid target. It's not a group encounter. It's a single mob that can be soloed by anyone wanting it. If you want it, get in line yourself and wait, or buy it from someone else. But you won't be holding it for anyone or 'passing it off' to people anymore.

And this is the last time any staff member is spending on this camp today. You will not monopolize our time with this childish crap.

If you want to discuss faults and point fingers, point them in a mirror for constantly dragging us into things you can't resolve yourselves. There are an immense amount of more important issues needing handled, that will not be delayed with these selfish antics any longer.


So what was put forth, don't be douche bags at other camps. This is applied to this camp, this camp only.

So when the question is asked

Originally Posted by soup
Isn't the FIFO thing ONLY that camp, and not any and all soloable camps?

and you answer

Negative.

It confuses people to keep asking questions over and over again. I wish everyone on this server weren't pricks and worked things out. But theres too many "Rules and What this GM/Guide"said lawyers out there to mix rules in their of favor.

The fact people are still making posts, causing issues about this camp still, is ridiculous.

[soup]

Negative.

Can you expand on this a bit?

I'm not trying to argue or whine or anything like that, I'm just genuinely not sure what the rules are anymore because there's so many "official" statements out that seem to conflict with each other.

If the FIFO thing applies to all camps, what does Uth mean by "don't attempt to apply this to other camps" or was there another more recent post made?

[inyane]

i was curious if they resolved it themselves, or if gm/guide intervention was necessary.
thats what i meant when i asked what the resolution is :)

[casdegere]

Jamar refused to accept anyone's interpretation or accept the status quo, what was posted, or any compromise. GM intervention was only recourse besides letting him bully his way into jumping the line. I was so very close to just leaving the zone and forgetting about it but then he just made me angry after a little bit. I wish I had not gotten angry but it happened anyway.

[Amelinda]

Ok. First of all - WHY is this still an issue???

It confuses people to keep asking questions over and over again. I wish everyone on this server weren't pricks and worked things out. But theres too many "Rules and What this GM/Guide"said lawyers out there to mix rules in their of favor.

Dear Players:
Stop asking questions repeatedly. YOU are causing the confusion because you ask the damn questions in 50 different ways so responses are tailored and then some person comes along and twists things so it suits them.

Uthgaard already stated:


Don't nitpick it or attempt to paint the decision with broad strokes and apply it to other camps. Since we have been forced to spend 6 hours in the past 2 days dealing with the infantile drama at that camp, it's simplified so people can't try to weasel gray areas and expect us to come sort it out for them.

Can you expand on this a bit?

If the FIFO thing applies to all camps, what does Uth mean by "don't attempt to apply this to other camps" or was there another more recent post made?


As far as other camps go......
Uthgaard had told me previously that this is how it is with Ancient Cyclops etc. That you can't pass camps off to friends/guildmates. If someone else is waiting for the camp and you are off somewhere else until your friend is done then suck it up - you lose the camp. I may be wrong. I have been a guide for 14 days.

When you go to the grocery store do you stand in the line at the checker and hold the line up while you purchase one item at a time until your entire family gets to the store no matter how long it takes and "takes over" that cashier from you? HELL NO. You waited your turn for that cashier, paid for your order then left. If your sister shows up an hour later then she can wait in line on her own right? The grocery store line operates for the most part on the principle of first in, first out. It. Is. Not. Complicated. Stop asking me questions 50 different ways.

And the attempting to paint the decision with broad strokes applies to the jerks out there who look for loopholes and ways to twist things for their benefit.

I don't even understand why people are so up in arms about this to be perfectly honest. It ends the cock-blocking complaints because if you want your loot/item/VP key piece/whatever then you put in the time and you earn it.



NB4 someone bitches that this miraculously happened AFTER TR and Divinity had their key pieces. I get tells about that all day long...so don't even bother. Please take off your tin-foil hats. Put away your degrees in rules lawyering and go play. :)

If you try to play rules lawyer to me and quote stuff it's not going to help your case.

The fact people are still making posts, causing issues about this camp still, is ridiculous.

To Soup specifically: The "YOU'S" in this post are NOT directed at you. they are the general form of "You". I don't want you to feel singled out or anyone to think that i'm griping at you. :)

[Vendar]

i just love the whole ''i'm a soloer without friends or guildies and i deserve the same loots as a guilded player with many friends / guildies'' defense.

news flash, regardless of how many poor decisions are made in regards to camps, it will not change the fact that no player deserves a god damn thing, and the entire purpose of joining a guild is to get things as a guild, for the guild, so that the guild has a chance of catching the next guild in progression, or, maintaining its dominance over the other competing guilds.

if you dont like being last, then make some friends or join a guild. wait, you prefer to solo because you dont like a lot of people? then go fucking play oblivion, i assure you that you will not have to worry about camp disputes over on that game.

the mentality of, ''i'm here so im next regardless that this spot is already camped, and if u dont like it im gonna cry til GMs are so sick of it that they cave in just to stop my tears'' is the most retarded, ass backwards logic i've seen in any game i've played in the last 12 years. I know GMs are busy as shit, i understand it better than most, but making quick knee-jerking reactions to benefit bad players in order to create more free time for other dev work is not a WIN for anyone, it's actually a loss for EQ as a whole, and yes that includes the players and the staff.

You guys gave in to the crybaby tears that were QQing they couldn't get an extremely highly desired item 4 weeks into kunark, so the next time something comes up that favors groups/guilds over solo play, expect more tears, petitions, and overall work, because now you have set the precedent that if players cry enough, staff will break down and give them their way.



TL : DR - welcome to EverQuest, where Players QQ their way to Victory

[Uthgaard]

It wasn't a knee-jerk reaction to anything. It doesn't take 6 people to hold. There are more gray areas to argue in the previous approach than this very simple FIFO approach. Consider it beta testing for a new rule. So far, it's worked very well.

Welcome to Everquest indeed. Where anyone better than you has no life and anyone worse than you is a noob, and the players cry about each other crying and defend said crying with ridiculous roundabout tirades that they're just 'mad and venting'.

[Theldios]

All of you talking trash about me. Think of it like this. What was posted on the boards WAS NOT CLEAR that is that camp is now stand in line and weait your turn. So why would I take the word of 2 TMO and one 1 TMO hanger on fanboi? i told them only a GM telling me different would make me change my stand and the OP lied and said they peitioned so I waited 3 hours and nothing so obviously some deception going on there so I petition and oh wait less than 10 min and gm comes clarifys and everythign is fine.
Tell me this thoughn Why would I take the word of another player on how the camp is or should be? No reason what so ever. If you don't like that I stood up for my self when someone coems and tried to dictate to me who has no authority then tough. But I will say I said nothing out of line until the OP started insulting me and then it was open season. But then again that peson did not put that in the SS did they. Again deception...
And 3-4 times this person changed stories and tried to chane the way they were interprting the rules to benifit them and their TMO friends

A Gm came made it clear what was ment and thats the end of that. but for people who do not have the WHOLE story to talk trash about me, well I really don't care what you think if you wanna be judgemental before KNOWing what REALLY happened. You seem to forget that it takes 2 to argue.