People still comment charm is bad in groups.

[sycopata666]

I have charm in groups, from lvl 12 with a positive results, normaly i try to charm the more low level mobs of the camp to mitigate the charm breaks, This works fine, with a noticiable DPS, and i normaly can control charm breaks with color flux > mez > tash > charm, taking half 0 damage.

Sometimes charm breaks in worst moments, were you are CC trains, and you cant take fast the control of the pet, or sometimes pet resist the color flux, and you recive some hits until you deal with the mezz to take control again.

My surprise are comments about healers, and other enchanters , who no charm and prefer "nuke/buff/charm just for CC" about why in his opinion charm is not efficient in groups , and im really surprised about this, why they sem explain me his postures from a experienced point of view, and sems i just have no idea about what im doing.

Im in wrong? Are really charm in group no worth? Why i feel it works awersome.

[Wrekt]

If an enchanter doesn't charm, outside of a specific set of reasons like they're too low for the camp, then they're a fucking HORRIBLE player. Enchanters, with charm, are capable of the highest dmg in the game, this is even more true early in a release like on Green where melee don't have crazy twink items from Velious/Tunark.

Yeah.. wow..

[Wallicker]

Charm is the single most powerful DPS spell in groups, if you have a decent healer in the group you 100% should use it if you aren’t semi afk

[Christina.]

Charm anyway lol. Show them that you know what you're doing and how nice your DPS is.

When/If i go enchanter when I start on new servers I'm one of those enchanters that start charming at 12 too lol. I love the risk:reward ratio :)

[Meiva]

If you're at a shit camp where you have a dozen mobs and your grouo kills them all and is waiting on repops. HHK maybe comes to mind. Maybe some MM or Unrest camps. I will only charm if in the mood. It's not of benefit. You're not getting more exp because there isn't enough to sustain a charmed pet.

Charming is awesome though. The things it allows us to do should be punishable in elf court.

[magnetaress]

Charm is the only spell a chanter needs lol. Best spell in game. Even if it breaks a lot. Every group I have been in where enchanter charmed was 4+ lvls a session. Add a cleric to rez everyone if things go bad, and it is even better.

[Snaggles]

Low levels are hard. Some people are naive about mechanics and the npc’s don’t have the hps/dps where a charmed pet can really shine. Fast forward to 50+ groups where a mid-40’s npc can have 8k+ hps and charmed pets easily justify their babysitting.

Ps: not justifying the whiners but clarifying scaling npc hp/dps

[Izmael]

Most common reasons for not charming in exp groups for me:
- not needed. Sometimes you have enough dps as it is and keep waiting on spawns
- needing to afk often. For example, you are home with a baby and might need to suddenly afk at any moment with no notice
- Not trusting the group's healer who should be watching the enc

[Scoojitsu]

- needing to afk often. For example, you are home with a baby and might need to suddenly afk at any moment with no notice

Oh I remember trying to do that. The baby had no mercy and I died many deaths.

[Gwaihir]

The sword pet is severely undervalued on this server. Charm is nice when you have a stable group with a tank that can anchor the mobs for you, but in a rag-tag duo/trio a swordpet-petwall with multiple chanters/pet classes will substantially outperform charming.

[Christina.]

I love doing it at 12 in crushbone /steamfont..lol, watch my orc or Minotaur pet make the other low levels in my group envy at my DPS :)

All except the level 12 wizard with his dam 100hp nuke lol

[sycopata666]

The sword pet is severely undervalued on this server. Charm is nice when you have a stable group with a tank that can anchor the mobs for you, but in a rag-tag duo/trio a swordpet-petwall with multiple chanters/pet classes will substantially outperform charming.

My 29 il.lussion hit for 26 and my charm pet hit for 54 and backstap for 144, also my ilussion pet need i intentional recive damage to start engaging, and cant control it for cc wen puller grab alot mobs. I just use ilusion pet for solo ,if i want a relax solo session.

[DisbeAsos]

Depends on group makeup, we had a group with 4 melle, healer and ench. The enchanters mana in that group was better spent keeping 4 melee hastes and CCing as opposed to charming. Other groups and situations would be different.

[Wallicker]

I’d wager a hasted charmed pet does more Dmg than hasting the 4 melee.

[MaCtastic]

Hasted charm pet with a torch. RIP mobs, RIP the Enc that doesn’t have rune up and stuns loaded.

[Jimjam]

I’d wager a hasted charmed pet does more Dmg than hasting the 4 melee.

I think hasting the melees is more for the psychological aspect of keeping them engaged with the game, than the pure efficiency of max dps.

[Snaggles]

Depending on the melees yea a pet can do on par or more dps. That said, keeping 4 melees hasted and a pet isn’t difficult if you plan your bio breaks.

Even if it’s 4 paladins, haste will double their dps which is better than not hasting them...

[Christina.]

I think hasting the melees is more for the psychological aspect of keeping them engaged with the game, than the pure efficiency of max dps.

Lmao yeah your right. A melee without haste isnt motivated at all. Haha

[branamil]

Depends on group makeup, we had a group with 4 melle, healer and ench. The enchanters mana in that group was better spent keeping 4 melee hastes and CCing as opposed to charming. Other groups and situations would be different.


Yep. Depends on the group. If they're chain pulling fast and you're LOM and the healer is not quick then its not worth it

[Veikuri]

Hasted charm pet with a torch. RIP mobs, RIP the Enc that doesn’t have rune up and stuns loaded.

Whats the proper procedure for when charm breaks? I usually just tash and recharm. Havent been using stun or runes

[Christina.]

Whats the proper procedure for when charm breaks? I usually just tash and recharm. Havent been using stun or runes

Color flux, level 4 mezmorize , Tash, Re-Charm

[Izmael]

Whats the proper procedure for when charm breaks? I usually just tash and recharm. Havent been using stun or runes

That works until you get to a level where you pet can kill you in 3-4 seconds, at which point you begin to really like your quick casting stun spells (and runes!)

[Christina.]

Excuse me

Color flux, level 4 mezmorize, Rune Refresh, Tash, re-Charm lol.

[Baler]

*tinfoil theory* having other players near your character affects the charm formula.

[GnomeCaptain]

Charm can be extremely strong, but it's not always a good idea to use it.

The summoned pet can be outrageously strong if used well.

An animation, slow, and chain-stunning is an extremely strong combo, especially if fighting in a tight space.

Also, ignore people that tell you how to play your class, especially if they make such sweeping statements as "you suck if you're not using charm" or "only bad Enchanters use animation" and other such nonsense.

Ignore, or merely pity, the min-max crowd.

[Christina.]

Also, ignore people that tell you how to play your class, especially if they make such sweeping statements as "you suck if you're not using charm" or "only bad Enchanters use animation" and other such nonsense. .

I agree, there's a million different playstyles. If you like charming and only charming do that. If you like using the shadow-men use them. It's up to you completely.

[unleashedd]

charm vs haste

youre in a melee heavy group, constant multi pulls. the amount of cc you do and constant rehastes make it nearly impossible to regen mana fast enough.

do you stop hasting, or stop charming? or something else (stop cc? hehe)

[Izmael]

I'd usually drop charming and just do cc / hasting and tell the puller to bring trains.

Tricky CC is usually a lot more fun than staring at the chatbox waiting for the red line saying "Your charm spell has worn off".

Also it is more likely to make you look like a hero in front of your group than keeping some random frog charmed.

[Snaggles]

A hasted pet in the high levels can do the equivalent dps of 4 player characters in a grind group. Unless someone's parser was borked in a Seb King group a hasted frog was going 180 dps where the rogue and monk combined were doing about 100dps and my paladin (57 with a 1h/shield) was cracking like 25dps.

I would keep communicating your mana level with the group. If they ignore you and are pushing things make them kill your pet. Don't charm another and explain you are not going to try and CC with an empty blue bar unless they enjoy CR's.

PS: Or send a tell to the healer(s) and see how much mana they have. If pretty much full than maybe make them work harder for the xp and go pet-less?

[Jimjam]

*tinfoil theory* having other players near your character affects the charm formula.

I got kicked out of a MM group before.

I cast IVU on our enchanter as they wanted to keep one of our camps mob as a pet. The zone was crowded and we were waiting for respawns so all it was going to do was remove one xp mob from our cycle.

[Bardp1999]

Charm is only a problem at lower levels when youre trying to charm something too high and its breaking every 20 seconds and draining the healer, other than that charm is disgustingly OP

[Christina.]

After watching the videos i watched on enchanters yesterday on youtube, I'm super inspired to main one next time a new server opens. I have an enchanter myself but never took the class serious. They can pull some of the craziest dungeon crawls ever lol

[Vector58]

I for one leave groups if the Enchanter insists on using any pet, wether charmed or illusion. Enchanters at any level only have enough mana to keep dps hasted, and if 29+ Clarity up on casters, while keeping the pulls stacked up waiting for the dps to kill. Folks who say their charmed pet is awesome dps, I agree, but(and it in my opinion is a big but) is that while they are trying to keep their charmed pet charmed, and wasting healers mana on healing them, they do no contribute as much dps to group as they seem to think. If you are a Enchanter in a group and you are full mana, and want to dps, you have nukes and Dots, and if you are not full mana, then med. I played on Live many years ago, and if an enchanter used a charmed pet in groups, they were not welcome, for the same reasons they should not be using charm on P99 servers.

[Christina.]

I for one leave groups if the Enchanter insists on using any pet, wether charmed or illusion. Enchanters at any level only have enough mana to keep dps hasted, and if 29+ Clarity up on casters, while keeping the pulls stacked up waiting for the dps to kill. Folks who say their charmed pet is awesome dps, I agree, but(and it in my opinion is a big but) is that while they are trying to keep their charmed pet charmed, and wasting healers mana on healing them, they do no contribute as much dps to group as they seem to think. If you are a Enchanter in a group and you are full mana, and want to dps, you have nukes and Dots, and if you are not full mana, then med. I played on Live many years ago, and if an enchanter used a charmed pet in groups, they were not welcome, for the same reasons they should not be using charm on P99 servers.

Oh man you're wrong lol. A "good" enchanter keeps rune up, a pet, an still provides cc, haste and clarity every 30 mins... If they can't they need more practice. Take baby steps by not Hasting the charmed pet lol.

[Veikuri]

I for one leave groups if the Enchanter insists on using any pet, wether charmed or illusion. Enchanters at any level only have enough mana to keep dps hasted, and if 29+ Clarity up on casters, while keeping the pulls stacked up waiting for the dps to kill. Folks who say their charmed pet is awesome dps, I agree, but(and it in my opinion is a big but) is that while they are trying to keep their charmed pet charmed, and wasting healers mana on healing them, they do no contribute as much dps to group as they seem to think. If you are a Enchanter in a group and you are full mana, and want to dps, you have nukes and Dots, and if you are not full mana, then med. I played on Live many years ago, and if an enchanter used a charmed pet in groups, they were not welcome, for the same reasons they should not be using charm on P99 servers.

Do you have parsers to backup such claims? My hasted charmed pets destroys any player dps and I'm able to keep feeble dps aug'd

[ChooChoo Train]

I for one leave groups if the Enchanter insists on using any pet, wether charmed or illusion. Enchanters at any level only have enough mana to keep dps hasted, and if 29+ Clarity up on casters, while keeping the pulls stacked up waiting for the dps to kill. Folks who say their charmed pet is awesome dps, I agree, but(and it in my opinion is a big but) is that while they are trying to keep their charmed pet charmed, and wasting healers mana on healing them, they do no contribute as much dps to group as they seem to think. If you are a Enchanter in a group and you are full mana, and want to dps, you have nukes and Dots, and if you are not full mana, then med. I played on Live many years ago, and if an enchanter used a charmed pet in groups, they were not welcome, for the same reasons they should not be using charm on P99 servers.

Obvious Obvious Troll here guys - please do not feed.

[fastboy21]

It depends on the group, especially in vanilla and new server.

Charmed pets only increase exp if there enough mobs around to keep the killing going. If you clear your area and have a charmed pet you are adding lots of risk and difficulty for very little gain.

Sometimes folks don't want the best exp per time...they want the easiest exp...so there have been times when I've sighed playing my cleric when I wanted to chill while playing and a chanter shows up that needs to be baby sat b/c they are likely to die on every charm break. Pretty much changes the laid back easy watch youtube group into a headache.

But, yah...chanters that don't charm usually are crappy.

[ewjax]

Situational.

If the group has solid DPS: Puller should go into overdrive and bring in as many as the CC chanter can handle, the chanter keeps them mezzed, racked and stacked and ready for the DPS grinder. Every now and then group can take a break, then turn the exp machine back on. This is actually the fastest exp I believe. A charmed pet in this situation is too risky, dealing with a single charm break will bring the whole house of cards tumbling down. I've been part of some INSANE pulls in MM courtyard and SolA using this setup, with 10 or more mobs on lockdown (hard to count when it's that crazy!
I just know I would hit the far right with AE mez and lock down 4, then hit far left with AE mez and hopefully lock down a different 4, single mez any left over, and keep cycling the AE mez left and right), it was glorious.

If the group has low DPS: Chanter needs to find a charm pet. Best = a rogue class green pet. Do your homework, check the wiki and figure out which are the rogues, find them and charm them, put a torch on them to unlock dual wield, park them across the room, and get busy. Best to bio before you charm, because once that thing is charmed you aren't going AFK for anything.

Yes, the charmed pet is a huge DPS kick, but if group doesn't need it, if the majority of time is being spent with a charmed pet just sitting and waiting on puller to bring in targets that die in 10 seconds, the charmed pet is a needless risk and a misuse of the chanter resource.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Charm is only a problem at lower levels when youre trying to charm something too high and its breaking every 20 seconds and draining the healer, other than that charm is disgustingly OP

Yea I prefer to Charm something lower level at any given camp than a mob most other people would charm at said camp. It'll still put out absurd DPS and makes for a much more relaxing experience for me (the chanter)

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Situational.

If the group has solid DPS: Puller should go into overdrive and bring in as many as the CC chanter can handle, the chanter keeps them mezzed, racked and stacked and ready for the DPS grinder. Every now and then group can take a break, then turn the exp machine back on. This is actually the fastest exp I believe. A charmed pet in this situation is too risky, dealing with a single charm break will bring the whole house of cards tumbling down. I've been part of some INSANE pulls in MM courtyard and SolA using this setup, with 10 or more mobs on lockdown (hard to count when it's that crazy!
I just know I would hit the far right with AE mez and lock down 4, then hit far left with AE mez and hopefully lock down a different 4, single mez any left over, and keep cycling the AE mez left and right), it was glorious.

If the group has low DPS: Chanter needs to find a charm pet. Best = a rogue class green pet. Do your homework, check the wiki and figure out which are the rogues, find them and charm them, put a torch on them to unlock dual wield, park them across the room, and get busy. Best to bio before you charm, because once that thing is charmed you aren't going AFK for anything.

Yes, the charmed pet is a huge DPS kick, but if group doesn't need it, if the majority of time is being spent with a charmed pet just sitting and waiting on puller to bring in targets that die in 10 seconds, the charmed pet is a needless risk and a misuse of the chanter resource.
Yea this is why I rerolled from Monk....too much damned work!

[Bristlebaner]

The sword pet is severely undervalued on this server. Charm is nice when you have a stable group with a tank that can anchor the mobs for you, but in a rag-tag duo/trio a swordpet-petwall with multiple chanters/pet classes will substantially outperform charming.

This is untrue.

[Tethler]

I for one leave groups if the Enchanter insists on using any pet, wether charmed or illusion. Enchanters at any level only have enough mana to keep dps hasted, and if 29+ Clarity up on casters, while keeping the pulls stacked up waiting for the dps to kill. Folks who say their charmed pet is awesome dps, I agree, but(and it in my opinion is a big but) is that while they are trying to keep their charmed pet charmed, and wasting healers mana on healing them, they do no contribute as much dps to group as they seem to think. If you are a Enchanter in a group and you are full mana, and want to dps, you have nukes and Dots, and if you are not full mana, then med. I played on Live many years ago, and if an enchanter used a charmed pet in groups, they were not welcome, for the same reasons they should not be using charm on P99 servers.

You waited 2 years to make your first forum post and this is what you went with?!

Embarrassing.

[Baler]

The problem with charming in groups exists between the keyboard and chair. If an enchanter is skilled they can control their pet or make the call to the group to assist with it's demise. It's when an under skilled or lack of experience enchanter charms a pet that things tend to go bad. (enchanter dies and group has to deal with it)
Enchanter is one class you can't play drunk.

[Gwaihir]

My 29 il.lussion hit for 26 and my charm pet hit for 54 and backstap for 144, also my ilussion pet need i intentional recive damage to start engaging, and cant control it for cc wen puller grab alot mobs. I just use ilusion pet for solo ,if i want a relax solo session.

Right on. I'd like to see where the backstab mobs are in Uguk.

Went from 29 to 34 in 1 evening duoing with 2 swordpets in a pet wall in Uguk from the LivesideZL through to all the shore mobs.

Didn't really matter that the sword pet "only" hit for 26 when it was quadding and landing hits more often than a safe-level charmpet. Never had to worry about a charmbreak either. We were literally killing the 14 mobs as fast as they could repop indefinitely.

The other chanter started out charming a mob, but it just kept putting him at unnecessary risk, and it was slowing our killspeed and fucking up the repop every time a charmbreak would create instability in our DPS-rate so he finally just gave up on that shit and joined team petwall. Couple this with the fact that his charmpet wasn't regenning hp as well as the swordpet and the need to go seeking a suitable replacement pet, and you'll begin to have an inkling of a thought in your peanut for why charmpet is unnecessary without a standard group composition.

[Izmael]

Went from 29 to 34 in 1 evening duoing with 2 swordpets in a pet wall in Uguk from the LivesideZL through to all the shore mobs.

Lots/most people underestimate how good enchanter summoned pets (animations) are.

2 encs with animations duoing like this poster are a very powerful and FUN combination.

Killing with an animation is at least as fun as with a charmed pet, because you can actually PLAN stuff. With a charmed pet, you will be able to kill stronger targets, but with RNG being a big part of the picture. Some people like to gamble, some people like to have insider info.

I think it's more fun to actually be in control.

There's nothing hard about charming. The finger memory and general EQ IQ required to be a good charming enchanter is not rocket science and anyone with half a chromosome can succeed in this endeavour. There's no glory to be gained by charming stuff. Back in 2000 - sure. But 20 years later, everyone and their aunt charm-duos HS, so come on now.

I leveled an enchanter to level 55 almost exclusively duoing with another enchanter, and we almost always used animations. Great fun, great exp, very little gear needed, almost zero downtime and never spent a minute looking for a group.

[Gwaihir]

Great fun, great exp, very little gear needed, almost zero downtime and never spent a minute looking for a group.

Shhh, they need you to buy their shitty classic era gear like tranix helm for 16x what its worth.

You trying to get suicided with two bullets in the back of the head?

[Enshadowed]

I got kicked out of a MM group before.

I cast IVU on our enchanter as they wanted to keep one of our camps mob as a pet. The zone was crowded and we were waiting for respawns so all it was going to do was remove one xp mob from our cycle.

I've had to explain this to a lot of people a lot at Pond, particularly. When we're waiting on respawns and you're charming a mob from the camp, for whatever reason, people can't seem to grasp the fact that we're actually losing experience.

[Stonewallx39]

The right answers have been stated already. A good chanter can keep a group fully buffed (and use a real haste not Aug. you lazy Bastards) CC, and bring devastating DPS with a charmed pet, which saves the mana of the healer.

If you are competing for mobs and waiting for pops between pulls then charming probably doesn’t make sense. While the dps is OP it doesn’t count for squat if you net less xp because you charmed one of the mobs in camp.

I understand why some don’t care for their chanter charming. Usually an open mind to their perspective and making sure they know you share common goals goes a long way to alleviate these situations. Who knows you might both learn something which is what makes this game so special, there’s unlimited knowledge to be shared.

[kjs86z]

Enchanter is one class you can't play drunk.

hold my beer

[enjchanter]

Lots/most people underestimate how good enchanter summoned pets (animations) are.

2 encs with animations duoing like this poster are a very powerful and FUN combination.

Killing with an animation is at least as fun as with a charmed pet, because you can actually PLAN stuff. With a charmed pet, you will be able to kill stronger targets, but with RNG being a big part of the picture. Some people like to gamble, some people like to have insider info.

I think it's more fun to actually be in control.

There's nothing hard about charming. The finger memory and general EQ IQ required to be a good charming enchanter is not rocket science and anyone with half a chromosome can succeed in this endeavour. There's no glory to be gained by charming stuff. Back in 2000 - sure. But 20 years later, everyone and their aunt charm-duos HS, so come on now.

I leveled an enchanter to level 55 almost exclusively duoing with another enchanter, and we almost always used animations. Great fun, great exp, very little gear needed, almost zero downtime and never spent a minute looking for a group.

I mean, if that's the route you're going with this, practically nothing in everquest is hard.

The animations arent horrible but the thing is that you can literally kill 2/3/4/+ mobs at one time via charming. If you're just taking animation and replacing it with a charm pet, then not breaking charm, not leap frogging pets, not reverse charming, then that's like intentionally doing it the least efficient way possible. If you want to just hack away one mob at a time then animation is fine. Still sucks imo but you can "be in control" if you want to say that.

And you're saying that charming is at best , just a muscle memory reaction time test (I dont fully disagree) but then saying that the possibility of a charm break makes it not worthwhile? Seems like you're saying charming is really easy but then also saying it's too scary to use it over an animation ?

Also Like, it's not that charming is the flashy way to do things , but it's simply better if you do it right. However you're also duoing , and if theres one thing easier than charming mobs for xp, it's duoing for xp.