Cannibalize for dummies

[Vaarsuvius]

Hello guys,

Can any seasoned shaman enlighten me on the mechanics of Canni Dancing please ?
I've read and applied the guide to Canni dance for some time now:

https://wiki.project1999.com/Guide_to_Canni_Dancing

I think I'm doing it right:

wait for sitting regen to kick in,
stand & cast Canni,
sit,
wait for sitting regen,
rince repeat

But after casting Cannibalize I often see my mana go up 8 points (and not about 20 points as it should according to the spell description),
then a couple seconds later while sitting my mana will go up 12-13 ish (1350 mana pool),
and then another second or two after that it will go up 12 ish pts again,

Am I missing something ?


Thanks in advance

[isoka]

You are doing it right since you are looking at the HP regen to kick in.
As you described, the mana regen update on client side is a bit broken.

You often get a wrong meditate tick on client side which corresponds to your "a couple seconds later while sitting, my mana will go up 12-13 ish, and then another second or two after that, it will go up 12 ish pts again".

Based on your description, you regain 12 mana every med tick. Sometimes, you get 13 as fake meditate tick, and when comes the med tick, your mana pool will be lowered by 1.
On your example, you get a fake meditate tick while sitting, so you have +12 extra mana on client side which you don't have on server side. When you cast cannibalize, server says that you should have +20 mana, so client gets updated and you seem to gain only 8 mana which is in fact 20 mana minus the 12 extra ones.

If you have jboots or any other instant click item, you can click it the moment you gain those fake mana points and you will see that your client will be updated with previous mana points. Once done, if you canni, you will gain 20 mana.

[Vaarsuvius]

Thanks for your explanation Isoka


I've tried to get a working multi line Canni macro, to no avail. I can't seem to be able to get a /pause xx,/sit line to work.
I only managed to get a very simple one working:

/sit
/cast 1,/pause 10,/cast 1
/sit


It still reduces the number of keys I have to use, but is not so great....

[Videri]

You can only have one pause and one other command on one line. And I forget which order they have to be in.

[Scoojitsu]

/pause 10, /cast 1

First the /cast 1 will be executed, followed by a 1sec pause.

[Vaarsuvius]

/pause 10, /cast 1

First the /cast 1 will be executed, followed by a 1sec pause.

/sit does not like to share a line with any other commands though, wihich is a real PITA and prevents any multi Canni macro :(

[kjs86z]

Rather than driving yourself insane timing ticks, get yourself a GCD click, put canni in your top slot, and chain canni down and just sit peacefully.

Might not be min/max, but your mental health will thank you.

[Vaarsuvius]

Amen to that :)

Guess I soon will have to pay someone a visit in Warslick Woods

[Christina.]

That's given yourself a headache. Wait until your comfortable enough with your HP. Canni down, then sit an Regen ol.

[Videri]

Amen to that :)

Guess I soon will have to pay someone a visit in Warslick Woods

Right???

Also, a 50p spyglass also works for this.

[Snaggles]

Yea canni dancing is more efficient if timed right but that’s why God invented YouTube. Burn that health bar about 30% less than the mana bar and sit down. Watch some cats chasing babies or whatever.

[Toehammer]

I cannot agree more; forget the dancing strategy. Your fingers and eyes will hurt from the concentration required over the hours you play your character. And the benefit over cannibalize in slot 1 + GCD clicky is just not worth it. When you eventually get cannibalize IV and Torpor some day, this is the strategy you will use anyway... it is the closest thing to manastone/complete heal a shaman can do :).

[douglas1999]

I've played two separate shamans up to level 60 (one on live and one on blue) but I've never actually gotten Torpor, could a knowledge shaman give some advice on specifically how to use it, when, what it's good for, when to use it on other people, maybe when *not* to use it?

I know it's known as one of the most game changing spells for a shaman, if not the most, but I did have epics on both chars and it already felt like I was OP as hell just with an epic and a big mana pool.

[Barm McLir]

I've played two separate shamans up to level 60 (one on live and one on blue) but I've never actually gotten Torpor, could a knowledge shaman give some advice on specifically how to use it, when, what it's good for, when to use it on other people, maybe when *not* to use it?

I know it's known as one of the most game changing spells for a shaman, if not the most, but I did have epics on both chars and it already felt like I was OP as hell just with an epic and a big mana pool.

Torpor is a heal over time. While ticking, it also slows the attack speed and movement rate of the recipient. Like most spells with side effects, you can only cast it on yourself and group mates. The slow is only 30% but will negate any spell haste while active.

You get four (and sometimes five) ticks of healing for 300HP each for 200 mana. Obviously the benefit to the shaman is to spam Canni IV with a refresh clicky, apply Torpor, and canni even more while it's running. Torpor shaman can recover from OOM faster than any class. You can win any fight where the slowed DPS of the mob is less than torpor's heal even if the fight takes hours. We don't have fast heals, or giant heals, but we are marathon runners.

When to use it?

Dangerous pulls, provided the puller understand they are about to lose a ton of mobility. Communicate that the slow is going to hamper their ability to build aggro. Is the enchanter trying to pacify an entire room? Pre-emptive torpor time.

Overpull coming in? Torpor yourself and start slowing using both Turgur's and Torgor's (cast one while the other is on cool-down) to slow the whole train. Sometimes you'll even live.

Top off the main healer as they often are too occupied or reluctant to burn a mana expensive heal on themselves. Top off casters and group pets.

Duo with a monk. Their excellent avoidance but low HP's synergize with our crappy heals but amazing slows.

Any group mate after a rez.

And solo of course. There's something hilarious about doing more damage to yourself than the mob attacking you.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Put Canni in the top spell slot. The Top Spell Slot allows you to refresh the spell before the recast timer has finished. The recast timer still exists (this is why you will get a "recast timer not met" message on longer recast time spells), but the recast timer is still going WHILE a spell is being cast. That means you can cast the spell at "recast timer - cast time" faster than other spell slots. With Canni 1 and an instant cast clickie (a "global cooldown reset" item, as it is normally called), you should be able to canni twice before sitting. This will not work on Canni 4, due to the longer cast/recast timer. But Canni 4 works best with Torpor anyway.


The way I would do it is have your macro on one keybind (1, for example), and have your global cooldown reset item on the next keybind (2, in this case).

Just did a test macro that seems to work well:

/stand
/pause 1
/pause 21, /cast 1
/pause 21, /cast 1
/sit

The strategy is to press 1 (your macro) AS SOON AS YOU SEE THE NUMBER CHANGE. It doesn't matter if the number increase is accurate. As soon as your mana number changes, hit the macro. This will cause you to stand, pause, then cast canni for the first time. As soon as the spell finishes, press 2 to trigger your global cooldown reset. Then you should cast canni again, and then sit. I only tested this briefly, but it seems to fit right into 6 seconds, and still gets me my meditate tick in. When I was doing canni dancing, I did it every OTHER tick, since it is a little too difficult to keep the timing exact every single tick. Luckily, since you can cram 2 cannis into a single tick, its basically like doing a canni dance every tick, but easier.

[loramin]

when, what it's good for, when to use it on other people, maybe when *not* to use it?

In short, once you get it you will almost always want to use Torpor, all the time, for everyone. It's just better, mathematically.

The only time to bust out a Chloroblast IMHO is when someone needs healing right that second (in a group/on a raid ... and in a group you can usually avoid the need by casting a Topor earlier).

[ChooChoo Train]

In short, once you get it you will almost always want to use Torpor, all the time, for everyone. It's just better, mathematically.

The only time to bust out a Chloroblast IMHO is when someone needs healing right that second (in a group/on a raid ... and in a group you can usually avoid the need by casting a Topor earlier).

Torpor decreases attack speed by 30% and if your mana is not tight you shouldn’t be using it during a raid on melee dps classes.

[loramin]

Torpor decreases attack speed by 30% and if your mana is not tight you shouldn’t be using it during a raid on melee dps classes.

Very good point: you do not want to Torpor main tanks, or anyone else trying to hold agro (EDIT: or needing mobility; good point Barm!), while they're trying to hold agro. But then also ... most raiding Shaman shouldn't even be thinking about healing the main tank in the first place: that's what CH chains are for :)

For other melee though? It's not likely going to have a meaningful impact in overall raid DPS ... but saving someone's life likely will. If you're flush with mana then I guess, why not Chloroblast? But personally I tended not to be most of the time on raids (even with constant insta-Canning and self-Torporing). I guess it's somewhat situational, and depends on your raid group, but I'd just stress that someone being alive, and briefly only doing 70% DPS, is a whole lot better than being dead and doing 0% (which is what happens when the healer runs out of mana).

I'd say always Torpor unless A) full of mana or close B) target is desperately trying to hold agro or move around (this has never been an issue for me in groups, and on raids you can still Torpor 95+% of the raid), or C) someone is literally about to die and Torpor won't heal fast enough. YMMV.

[Barm McLir]

Torpor decreases attack speed by 30% and if your mana is not tight you shouldn’t be using it during a raid on melee dps classes.

Plus the sudden loss of mobility for a tank or puller can really throw them.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Torpor is used all the time. I have Canni 4 on slot 1, and Torpor on slot 2. Forever. Only time they leave those slots is when I die.

When soloing, Torpor:
1. Torpor is how you get your Mana back in all situations. Canni down, Torpor up.
2. Torpor is how you heal yourself and your pet in all situations. Spell slots are quite premium on Shamans, since two slots are filled with Torp and Canni. In most cases, the third and fourth slot is filled with slow and malo. If the area is dangerous, gate is your fifth slot. That means you have 3 spell slots for offense or utility. This makes it tough to have Chloroblast on bar when soloing.
3. Torpor can be used as an HP buffer on a particularly difficult mob. Throw Torpor on yourself before you pull the mob, so you have some extra HP to work with while you are trying to slow. This strategy can also work on your pet. Throw Torpor on the pet, send them into the lion's den.

When soloing, do NOT Torpor:
1. Can't think of anything to put here. Don't Torpor right after you already Torpored. It is a waste of mana:)

When grouping, Torpor:
1. Torpor is how you get your Mana back in all situations. Canni down, Torpor up.
2. Torpor is how you heal yourself and your pet in all situations.
3. Torpor is how you heal others in most situations. Torpor non-melee classes always, unless they specifically need to run away. The attack slow and snare has no effect on them. For melee classes, torpor is normally fine, even with the snare and slow. This is why Duoing Shaman/Monk is popular, for example. The mana efficiency makes up for the temporary loss in DPS.
4. Use Torpor as an HP buffer. This is less common in grouping, but it can be applied in specific situations, such as an enchanter trying to calm some mobs. Having Torpor there in case of a crit fail could be the difference between an aoe mez and a dead enchanter.

When grouping, do NOT Torpor:
1. When someone needs a fast heal. Torpor takes longer to cast, and heals less initially.
2. If someone has maximum buffs for some reason. Normally, ask them to drop at least one so Torpor can land. If 15 buffs is required, you must cast Chloroblast, as Torpor will not stick.
3. If the group member needs to move quickly.
4. Your group is doing well, you have full mana, you don't want to snare your DPS, and they are not dying quickly.
5. When a tank needs to build agro, and they are not dying fast enough to require a Torpor to stay alive.

When raiding, Torpor:
1. Torpor is how you get your Mana back in all situations. Canni down, Torpor up.
2. Torpor is how you heal yourself and your pet in all situations.
3. Torpor is how you heal others in most situations. Torpor non-melee classes always, unless they specifically need to run away. The attack slow and snare has no effect on them. For melee classes, torpor is normally fine, even with the snare and slow. This is especially true when fighting AoE mobs. The mana efficiency is more important than the snare and slow negative effects. No mana = dead DPS. Dead DPS = 0 DPS.
4. If you are in the Main Tank group, Torpor IS used on raid tanks when a mob is ultra powerful. AoW is a perfect example. Torpor is always on that tank, to help mitigate the insane damage being taken. In this specific case, you will try to Chloroblast in between Torpors as well.

When raiding, do NOT Torpor:
1. When someone needs a fast heal. Torpor takes longer to cast, and heals less initially.
2. If someone has maximum buffs for some reason. Normally, ask them to drop at least one so Torpor can land. If 15 buffs is required, you must cast Chloroblast, as Torpor will not stick.
3. If the group member needs to move quickly.
4. Your group is doing well, you have full mana, you don't want to snare your DPS, and they are not dying quickly.
5. When a tank needs to build agro, and they are not dying fast enough to require a Torpor to stay alive.
6. If the fight specifically requires the tank to not be Torpored.

This should cover most cases:)

[Danth]

Torpor on someone who aggros the beetle traps in Dragon Necropolis usually doesn't end well for the recipient either. Most often it's the only heal spell a grouping Shaman will have up and it's the best option the overwhelming majority of the time. There aren't enough spell gems to keep everything up all at once.

As a tank, if you know Torpor is coming it's not hard to strafe around and move that way. Main thing is it slows you enough that you can't effectively move directly backward and you don't normally want to turn your back as a tank since that harms avoidance. I've spent a lot of time with Torpor on since I'm the tank in the SK/SHM duo I have with the wife. Things can get "fun" if the person doesn't know it's coming.

Danth