Range bow damage - dex or str?

[Anxarcule]

Thinking about starting a ranger down the line and am trying to understand if dexterity is worth investing in for ranged combat. As I understand dex affects bow damage and hit rate (str has 0 effect on ranged weapons), though on the Game Mechanics (https://wiki.project1999.com/Game_Mechanics) page it states that archery has no damage bonuses. is there a formula that demonstrates stat level with added damage (e.g. for every 5 dex above 100 +1 damage)?

There is an interesting thread (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243942) from 2016 that states str is used instead of dex - was this fixed at some point between now and then? the wiki on patch notes seems to refer to original EQ timeline, not p1999 patches

[Imago]

On P99 you want STR, not DEX, for bow damage on a ranger.

[Anxarcule]

Thanks for the clarification - seeing you have a 60 ranger I imagine this is accurate. Do you have any idea the +str to + dmg ratio, from your experience?

[Anxarcule]

Also, is dex still relevant for bow accuracy or is that also str? (would edit previous post but looks like too much time has passed)

[YendorLootmonkey]

Unless you're playing on Red and worried about PVP, bow damage isn't really compelling enough to worry about during the lifetime of the server due to lack of Luclin-era EQ/AM3 AAs, except for 2 mins of Trueshot every 72 mins with a very small subset of endgame bows. At that point, you will be max STR and pretty close on DEX anyway.

Bowkiting is tedious.

In most cases, you are doing max DPS with melee weapons unless you've neglected to upgrade.

[Anxarcule]

I know doing a bow ranger (especially pre-kunark/velious) may be tedious but it's something that I've been itching to try for some reason. Still going strong with my wizard for now so I probably have some time until the urge sinks in, but something about the unorthodox play style appeals to me

[YendorLootmonkey]

I know doing a bow ranger (especially pre-kunark/velious) may be tedious but it's something that I've been itching to try for some reason. Still going strong with my wizard for now so I probably have some time until the urge sinks in, but something about the unorthodox play style appeals to me

I get it, but it will appeal to you for about 3 mobs.

The unorthodox playstyle of a ranger comes from its versatility, not so much the ability to bow-kite. Harmony-pulling singles out of Mistmoore or Unrest, tanking for your group... shit, here comes a roamer... swap targets and rootpark. Wizard just overnuked and got aggro, no problem... flame licked back onto you. Nice, a warrior just joined the group... shit, he can't hold aggro. Cast root or swap to Ebony Bladed Swords and proc root for him. Got a runner... uh oh... no problem, snared. Wizard's at 50% HP and cleric is healing the warrior... top him off with a few heals and go pull the next mob.

I can make the case that playing a defensive/utility ranger like this with STA/HP/AC/WIS gear vs. an offensive ranger with STR/DEX is more compelling gameplay.

[gherron]

I know doing a bow ranger (especially pre-kunark/velious) may be tedious but it's something that I've been itching to try for some reason. Still going strong with my wizard for now so I probably have some time until the urge sinks in, but something about the unorthodox play style appeals to me

Bow kiting once in a while for a quest mob or some names mob for a drop outdoors is cool. What’s not cool is when you’re solo grinding through bow-kiting and it takes you an enormous amount of time just to kill one mob. Source: me.

[Jimjam]

I imagine str affects bows similarly to how it does on normal weapons. Usually it doesn’t add damage, it just makes it more likely your hits will do damage closer to your max damage. It seems to rather rarely also add a small amount of extra damage to a few of your hits, but again this is rare. Dex doesn’t seem to do much, maybe a marginal increase in crit hits, but again those are rare enough it doesn’t really improve your damage most of the time.

Bows are surprisingly good at very low level as they ignore damage caps. The benefit of this is largely lost by the time you’re done with giant scarabs and you start benefiting from things like double attack or dual wield and melee weapons beecomong uncapped.

[Lartanin63]

Yeah you will want Str. I think the dmg calculation is really based off the bows damage more than strength bonus. Like you are only going to hit so hard with the increased attack rating you get. It obviously changes when you get into 50s for double dmg when it's standing there not rooted. I've done a dex build in the past to see if my crits happened more and it seemed worse with the lost damage of my strength gear being replaced.
I feel bow kiting stuff in classic and in other situational stuff later on in expansions is viable. But you shouldn't be doing it in groups and stuff. That's like a druid meleeing because he has a scimitar.

Root and shoot is viable to put your dots on it and med while you bow

Snare and bow to finish off mobs when your hp/mana gets a bit low during melee.

Make a buttload of arrows and solo a red con mob with sow. This sounds like a waste of time but getting a hero bracers way before you can tank and spank, or a short sword of Morin, orc impaler. 6-30 damage and not getting hit is nothing to laugh about in classic.

Tldr: Go strength, use archery as a tool not to define your class.

[gherron]

Make a buttload of arrows and solo a red con mob with sow. This sounds like a waste of time but getting a hero bracers way before you can tank and spank, or a short sword of Morin, orc impaler. 6-30 damage and not getting hit is nothing to laugh about in classic.
.

Cannot stress this enough. I was able to farm Karg Icebear (level 35/36) solo at level 15 using nothing but vendor arrows and sow pots (couldn’t land any spells on him). It felt like a huge accomplishment to get the gigantic zweihander and his cloak. I’m still using the zweihander and I probably won’t ever sell it because it’s my “trophy”. Big game hunting is very rewarding on the ranger.

Also, thanks Lartanin for your awesome guide.

[Tethler]

Cannot stress this enough. I was able to farm Karg Icebear (level 35/36) solo at level 15 using nothing but vendor arrows and sow pots (couldn’t land any spells on him). It felt like a huge accomplishment to get the gigantic zweihander and his cloak. I’m still using the zweihander and I probably won’t ever sell it because it’s my “trophy”. Big game hunting is very rewarding on the ranger.

Also, thanks Lartanin for your awesome guide.

Yeah, I did the same in the low 20s, but without sow/sow pots. Strafe running for 20 mins while snapping back to to shoot without getting caught was pretty tiring on the hands. Bow kited down Quillmane at 30 also, but unfortunately got legs.

Bows are great for targets of opportunity!

I use bow sometimes when I'm soloing xp mobs too. When I need to root and back out to heal, you can weave bow shots during GCD between heals. The extra dmg adds up.

[Lartanin63]

Thanks Gherron.

Talking about the trophy kills:

Ghoul messanger at lvl 12: did get help since my sow ran out and I had to strafe run to qeynos.

Mino Hero at lvl 25

Ghoul Boss at lvl 29

Quillmane at lvl 31- Also legs :(

Don't think I got anything great besides those.

[Imago]

I've found bow kiting + root/rot to be viable in both Classic and Kunark.

At 35 I parked in SolB at the easy SolA zoneline and would bow kite + root/rot the pathing kobold for basically free xp til 45. Runed Oak Bow + storebought arrows, typical gear for mid 30s.

54-56 I did this for golems in COM. Raincaller + Summoned: Arrows

At 59 I killed Nyzil Bloodforge the same way for the last 50% of the level. Raincaller + Summoned: Arrows

Sure, it takes longer, but it also allows for freedom of playstyle and, when groups invariably dont invite you because they want to min max 110% of the time, it provides a reasonable way to stay productive (P.S. i hate those people, this is Everquest)

[Sarkhan]

Cannot stress this enough. I was able to farm Karg Icebear (level 35/36) solo at level 15 using nothing but vendor arrows and sow pots (couldn’t land any spells on him). It felt like a huge accomplishment to get the gigantic zweihander and his cloak. I’m still using the zweihander and I probably won’t ever sell it because it’s my “trophy”. Big game hunting is very rewarding on the ranger.

Also, thanks Lartanin for your awesome guide.


I did this too at lvl 17 for my Zweihander from Karg and cloak from Matar! Also got my Peggy cloak around 28 I believe and 2 more for my friends. Orc impaler too soloing that shadowman and ghoul boss. I gotta say those single targets are where bow kiting shines and definitely makes you feel accomplished. Died miserably against Coloth though, do not recommend because he bow kites better than a 30 ranger haha

Extra thanks to Lartanin as everything I've read from him seems spot on.

[Lartanin63]

Yeah that centaur bowing you at sow speed for 44plus a shot my God devs.

[Anxarcule]

Thanks everyone for sharing their knowledge and experience - this has been very insightful and useful, and I think I will (eventually) try a ranger next once my wizard starts to get a bit more dull.

[Philistine]

I can make the case that playing a defensive/utility ranger like this with STA/HP/AC/WIS gear vs. an offensive ranger with STR/DEX is more compelling gameplay.

I've attempted to gear my ranger based on this advice. Finally starting to struggle with tanking at 46 - without slows I struggle unless a cleric is healing. With slows it seems like most healers can keep me up without TOO much mana sponging

[Videri]

You might want to check out the 2016 thread "Archery uses STR instead of DEX!!!! (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242638&highlight=archery+strength)" by Ivory.

Also, I'd like to point out that I found that thread by searching "archery strength." This message is brought to you by the search feature. The search feature: try it sometime. :p

[Wrekt]

...Sure, it takes longer, but it also allows for freedom of playstyle and, when groups invariably dont invite you because they want to min max 110% of the time, it provides a reasonable way to stay productive (P.S. i hate those people, this is Everquest)

We hate you back. Go solo with all that utility instead of debuffing our experience gain too. Be considerate.

[Wallicker]

All these rangers talking about their 45 minute bow kills on red cons... legit any class can do this with a bow or thrown weapons. Except Druid and cleric i believe before some smartass brings that up.

[Ennewi]

We hate you back. Go solo with all that utility instead of debuffing our experience gain too. Be considerate.

If only it were possible to give individual players xp penalties, not based on their race/class, but instead their serverwide faction.

[Ennewi]

All these rangers talking about their 45 minute bow kills on red cons... legit any class can do this with a bow or thrown weapons. Except Druid and cleric i believe before some smartass brings that up.

Not consistently though. Track and Tolan's bracer make all the difference.

[Jimjam]

All these rangers talking about their 45 minute bow kills on red cons... legit any class can do this with a bow or thrown weapons. Except Druid and cleric i believe before some smartass brings that up.

I spent 90 minutes bow kiting an ice burrower once, just to see if i could. Dropped nothing, fml. Having snare helped, but it took a lot of casts to stick. At least it was 90 mins of active play, not hours of afk checks.

[Wallicker]

Not consistently though. Track and Tolan's bracer make all the difference.

What’s a Tolans bracer we haven’t discovered Kunark yet

[Ennewi]

What’s a Tolans bracer we haven’t discovered Kunark yet

Brace yourselves.