Cleric races. So many good choices

[DMN]

So i'm now soon starting up my cleric on green but I'm actually pretty torn on race. Here are the top contenders IMO and the logic you might want to pick one on greal.

Inny human cleric

Solid well rounded stats. For a month or two you will get to have fun with that lich mask from paineel. Long term you get free fear and snare from clickies. Guise + inny opens up some interesting quest potential too. The ability to wear ivandyr's hoop should also be noted, as none of the other 3 can do so. 6hp, 6 ac, and 6 wis is nothing to sneeze at pre-velious . might even be useful in this time period for some emergency mana. You life tap with the hoop so you can stone yourself for maybe that extra heal or 2 in an emergency.( as a side note, is it still nerfed for no reason on P99 to not be rechargeable since they already nerfed lifetap line?) Sure other races can click it, but it would require them to use up a precious inventory slot. There is also the fright forged helm will give another instant click you spam for certain dispel-heavy raid encounters.

Dwarf
Solid short term and log term minmax choice for someone that both has a manastone and plans to mainly raid with the character. Short term the dwarf has solid overall stats but in particular the high stamina is of interest to those with stones. The charisma is a huge downfall if you plan to group or solo much. A dwarf will generally get close to one extra stone click per heal.

High elf

Excellent charisma and wisdom, the two most important stats for clerics who do not plan to permanently raid. While you have crap for str so weight is always an issue, box of abu drops frequently on greal and you could focus on getting low weight items that offer good ac/other stats like azure sleeves. Stamina versus charisma for raiding for non melee classes is always an interesting conundrum if factoring in divine intervention.


Halfling

Essentially same story as dwarf with slightly worse stats. But with a 5% exp bonus and the extra coolness of having both hide and sneak. Sneak can be quite useful as clerics don't get invisibility. You can also pacify NPCs to then be able to easily sneak up to them even when they normally wouldn't turn their back to you. The no brainer choice for anyone who just want's that rez ability ASAP.

Any thoughts?

[Tecmos Deception]

I prefer high elf to have a bunch of charisma for lulls, or halfling for sneak and hide. I guess the clickies a human would get are pretty cool, though I've always preferred to pick a race more for its base perks that you can always rely on. You'll often have someone better to snare stuff. You're rarely want to fear stuff as far as I have ever played. But being able to do quests or vendor with bad factions, sneak past living stuff, hide afk to survive a train and rez your group up, pull off clutch lulls with only a few key pieces of charisma gear? That's what attracts me to those races for sure.

[Vexenu]

Your personal aesthetic preference should be the highest priority. After that it's more about the type of gameplay you prefer. For example, if you'll mostly be grouping or duoing with an Enchanter, you aren't going to need a high CHA for lulls. Conversely, if you know you'll be doing a lot of soloing or duoing with a Mage or melee, you'll get a lot more benefit from a higher CHA race. Ultimately Inny Human and Halfling are probably the min/max choices, depending on your preferred playstyle.

[DMN]

I'm not sure about always having someone better to snare.You have rangers (rare), druids (who you wlll rarely group with as a cleric), SKs (rare), and necros(they tend t atttract players who mostly solo), then bards of course, probabaly the most likley one you will encoutner as a cleric on p99. So im not sure lot of snare going around and snare can save a lot of mana in group situations. it also will enable fear kiting without the need for any additional classes. Fear also intterrupts spell casting if cast on a rooted mob. Again, can save a lot of mana on certain spell casting enemies.

I'm also a huge cha fan for any class that gets lulls. But it is worth noting humans only have 5 less cha than high elves.

[DMN]

Your personal aesthetic preference should be the highest priority. After that it's more about the type of gameplay you prefer. For example, if you'll mostly be grouping or duoing with an Enchanter, you aren't going to need a high CHA for lulls. Conversely, if you know you'll be doing a lot of soloing or duoing with a Mage or melee, you'll get a lot more benefit from a higher CHA race. Ultimately Inny Human and Halfling are probably the min/max choices, depending on your preferred playstyle.

if i knew a cleric could get their Cha to 170+ with enchanter buff, the enchanter would probabaly prefer the cleric to lull. Even with the higher crit lull rates it's much safer for a cleric to pull aggro of 4-5 mobs since they can turn invulnerable while the enchanter puts the rest on ice. Doesn't work the oher way around. Uusally end up with a dead enchanter waiting out rez effects.

[kjs86z]

The answer is gnome. At least you'll be able to see through the walls you'll be staring at.

[Crede]

Human inny all day. Clickies are fun and you get lots of them. There’s also a deadeye instant clicky helm so no more night vision/see invis needed. Nice for gcd reset also and nearly highest cha. No brainer IMO unless you just prefer the looks of another race.

[OuterChimp]

The answer is gnome. At least you'll be able to see through the walls you'll be staring at.

well said and spoken like someone who has played a Cleric before.

10 out of 10 on your reply Sir/Ma'am.

[Jimjam]

The answer is gnome. At least you'll be able to see through the walls you'll be staring at.
Kinda defeats the point though...

I think a Dwarf, or possibly human, would most appreciate masonry inspections.

[Gatorsmash]

Erudite with lich clicky mask. Mana regen,ultravision,skelly illusion.

I'll get the lights

[loramin]

Erudite with lich clicky mask. Mana regen,ultravision,skelly illusion.

I'll get the lights

But that item gets nerfed to fear right? Or do the pre-nerf versions stick around?

[Gatorsmash]

But that item gets nerfed to fear right? Or do the pre-nerf versions stick around?

You know I'm not sure now that I think about it, I thought it was changed not retro-nerfed. I'll have to check

[DMN]

Erudite with lich clicky mask. Mana regen,ultravision,skelly illusion.

I'll get the lights

Humans can use the mask. And erudite can't follow inny.

And yes the mask gets nerfed month or 2 after it shows up. It was a strange addition to the game as at that point, as you would have thought verant learned its lesson from the manastone

One of the main reasons manastone was nerfed was that guilds were requiring perspective member, especially priest classes, to have one to join them.

[Albanwr]

go halfling, you will be asked more for SoW than rez. Ask me how I know.

[Tuljin]

I see the High Elf argument for highest base CHA and you can really crank points into it while also having highest base WIS. If you are an "adventuring" cleric as opposed to a ~~~rAiD~~~ cleric this initially makes sense but really where it stops making sense is how you won't even have enough strength to wear all the plate you need to wear.

If you adventure and play solo/duo etc you really need all the AC and HP you can get because it truly does make a tremendous difference. I instantly notice the difference between having my AC buff on and not and the damage mitigation is quite substantial. I even notice the difference between wearing my 2hb staff and wearing my shield and scepter. There is a huge difference with 35 extra AC. You can symbol yourself, as well.

If you adventure yes you do need CHA but you cannot sacrifice AC at all because you -will- take hits. I understand the "what if you're naked" scenario for high base CHA but really that "what if" scenario applies to under one percent of the server population. Most of the clerics intend on being ~~~~~rAiD~~~~~ clerics and while they are leveling they're not doing anything besides sitting in full groups and casting heals, anyways.

The Inny snare neck is actually an incredible item and really shouldn't be undervalued. If you are adventuring you -will- use it. In reality you will rarely have someone with you that can snare, especially if you are going to be duo or trio. Even if you do, in my experience classes with a true snare aren't diligent about it at all because it's "too much work" to keep snare/root straight.

The 20% free damage from a snared fleeing mob adds up to being an incredible amount of saved mana over time. (Yes, I realize the snare neck doesn't actually stop the mob till 15%) This is getting into more complex math than the arithmetic used by P99 min/maxers to justify class/race choice. There are simply far too many ignored variables in these calcuations, most of which regard -actually playing EverQuest- and not --- "yes, this druid or wizard or ranger in my theoretical group that I never actually have and in fact don't even want in the first place is going to absolutely snare every single mob that we fight" It's absolutely preposterous when you really think about it.

If you are only going to group or get powerleveled then exclusively ~~~~~~~rAiD~~~~~~~ then Dwarf with full STA and rest into STR is the clear min/max choice. Halfling hide and sneak are nice and the stats arent bad at all but really the low CHA offsets their functionality as an adventuring cleric.

Where the high CHA classes besides Human fall short is their low strength. This significantly impacts their ability to wear plate and get their AC up which is imperative for a cleric that will be adventuring and will be in dangerous situations. Clerics take hits. Clerics calm and get crit resists sometimes. Clerics need to root mobs and do CC. Clerics cast nukes. Clerics stun broken pets and stun adds to grab agro and park them elsewhere. (Or do they do all these things???? Lol)

Inny Human with points into CHA at roll is the choice for an adventuring cleric. It's only 5 less base than High Elf. The snare neck is awesome and you will use it. You can always get a CHA buff because you will do some soloing but you won't be doing the most dangerous camps alone. If you know you won't be raiding it makes sense to put some points into WIS because you won't have the high WIS phats from ~~~~~~~~~rAiDs~~~~~~~~~. You need some form of a mana pool as a cleric but WIS is an overrated stat. If you have a manastone as many min/maxers would you don't need a deep mana pool whatsoever, at which point you dump entirely into CHA. I've seen clerics with Manastone and just wearing entirely +WIS gear and I really scratch my head when I do lol.

Really gearing in EQ is all about balance and staying alive. The rounded stats of Human including the high STR and CHA make it the choice for an adventuring cleric. Wear plate, get AC HP and resists, you need some mana pool but you're rarely full mana anyways so it's not the end all be all.

The fact is most ~cLeRiCs~ only sit and cast heals then join a ~~~~~~~~~~~rAiD gUiLd~~~~~~~~~~~ anyways at which point Dwarf is a great choice.

[Cen]

With clerics, my min max sense seems appeased with everything. Truly, its one of the most balanced classes among races.

You balance stat aggregate/lulling with Hide, the numerous good Cleric robes, faction, sneak, cultural, and then the clickies, and then sneak... even ultra/infravision matters since clerics one of the few classes don't get vision spells. Every race has awesome unique stuff between all that.

[Menenolly]

I went with dwarf over all the races with extra clickees just because I always wanted to play a dwarf and I think i would enjoy that race/class over a longer period. Plus now that I'm playing a dwarf I'm barrel rolling non-stop. I so enjoy clicking yaulp and barrel roll, like way too much.

[Pyrocat]

Erudite with lich clicky mask. Mana regen,ultravision,skelly illusion.

I'll get the lights

It gets released with Paineel. You cannot create an erudite who can use it before Paineel. You need to be roughly lvl 40 or so to do the quest, or have a ton of help. It gets nerfed (retroactively) in Kunark, about 2 months after Paineel releases. So you have 2 months to level your cleric and then do the quest and then use it. Not worth.

[Pyrocat]

Erudite cleric is the best choice for fashion though.

[Drakborn]

This is so odd, why so much debate? If one of the choices is dwarf, then it's obvious..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFXUYl2ljqI

[Wrekt]

Not a day goes by that I don't wish I had made a HFL Cleric rather than my HIE. The strength of the HFL is higher and Clerics wear plate. And, being able to hide is extremely valuable. People often pull things on top of you while you are sitting down and if you are hidden, it's not a problem. Leveling faster is obviously very important also. That's less time doing the grind.

[Pyrion]

Strange that nobody mentioned dark elfs yet. You get that snare neck AND hide skill. Ultravision on top. After just some basic leveling with orcs in EC i can buy and sell in common lands.

For me DE cleric is a really good choice.

[DMN]

Strange that nobody mentioned dark elfs yet. You get that snare neck AND hide skill. Ultravision on top. After just some basic leveling with orcs in EC i can buy and sell in common lands.

For me DE cleric is a really good choice.

Well, we are talking about green, so ultravision is irrelevant. The thing about hide is mainly if you are soloing and want to AFK;problem is if you are soloing on a cleric you are prolly killing undead, which see through hide. So you basically end up with tiny bit more wisdom and ton less str/sta/cha than a human with no real benefit, but massively worse faction than a human inny follower (who with the guise can go almost anywhere.)

[Cen]

Ultravision is relevant for Clerics mostly because they don't have an easy source of it other then Guise for a little while longer.

Hide - Undead may see through it, but the amount of times you avoid pulling sit aggro in groups is freaking awesome on some classes, cleric being numero uno for that purpose.

Humans get a far better aggregate though. Both races are Robers, so all the special Cleric robes both can get.


Natural Dark Elves are the only Clerics who get Hide and Robes ;D

Worshipping Innoruuk and being super Evil though is rough on them without invis.

Human Clerics get so many cool items at Paineel tho

[DMN]

I didn't actually think about hiding on pulls. I suppose that could be a decent QoL thing when camping stuff you can't conveniently sit behind LOS blocking walls/objects. Pretty minor though, and the stat hit is pretty heavy relative to a human, on the order of 40-45 stat points. that's a pretty heavy price of admission.

[Gatorsmash]

Well, we are talking about green, so ultravision is irrelevant. The thing about hide is mainly if you are soloing and want to AFK;problem is if you are soloing on a cleric you are prolly killing undead, which see through hide. So you basically end up with tiny bit more wisdom and ton less str/sta/cha than a human with no real benefit, but massively worse faction than a human inny follower (who with the guise can go almost anywhere.)

"Well, we are talking about green, so ultravision is irrelevant."

lol what? Blind corpse runs on green is a real thing and root/Atone + hide on pulls, wipes, navigating camps is Pro.

Let me just add infravision is like playing the game on a 1990 monitor in Mexico after playing with ultra vision 24-7 (non-clicky) on green for the other races.

[ShadyNapster]

isn't dark elf the sexiest?

[iAmAbsurd]

I appreciate this thread, lots of great responses and information here which unfortunately has made things even more difficult for my decision personally. I absolutely love the idea of a Human worshipping Innoruuk and living his life to that cause as if he was one of their own. Going so far as to hide in plain sight as one of his true kinfolk via his priced guise illusion.

With that said and understanding the charisma component as important for grouping, duo and trio, what would be recommended for a Human Innoruuk that eventually plans to raid once he understands his role and actions needed for such an endeavor? Should i still pump 25 charisma and 5 stamina, while keeping wisdom at base 85? I understand higher end items and getting those in the years to come allow for wisdom cap to be within reach. Is the same true for charisma? Will i be suffering tremendously until i am able to get to the real end game and get my wisdom higher?

I have experience on high end Dark Elf Cleric but it was from so long ago it isn’t something I am relying on, that particular game knowledge has faded. I now understand dramatically more about situational awareness and other core concepts which I can build new game knowledge on top of. I will not be resting on any laurels and will be putting the time in to learn the class and how to play properly in as many situations as I can put myself in to. Character will be decently twinked if that matters. I may be changing my main so I am farming some things now. I just enjoy healing too much to not get back on that horse. Obvious first goal is to get guise within the next few weeks and work my butt off doing so.

[Vexenu]

Should i still pump 25 charisma and 5 stamina, while keeping wisdom at base 85? I understand higher end items and getting those in the years to come allow for wisdom cap to be within reach. Is the same true for charisma? Will i be suffering tremendously until i am able to get to the real end game and get my wisdom higher?
.

No you should not pump Charisma, and yes you will be noticeably suffering from the low WIS if you do. +CHA gear is cheap and easily acquired, +WIS gear is more expensive and harder to come by. And every point of +WIS you get from stats means more slots you can instead devote to +Mana, +HP or +Resists, all of which you will benefit more from on a regular basis than CHA. For an easy example, consider that a low WIS Cleric will probably be forced to wear +WIS jewelry, while the high WIS Cleric can fill those slots with +HP jewelry and become much more sturdy.

This is not to say CHA is useless for a Cleric. It's worth having some +CHA gear. But unless you are regularly breaking camps solo or trying to cast lull on mobs near your own level, you won't benefit much from high CHA. Realistically you won't be pulling or breaking camps much as a grouping Cleric, and if you do you will probably only cast the spell once to initially break the camp. And you will likely be casting on low blue con XP mobs with a low resist rate.

IMO the two best choices for Cleric are Inny Human and Halfling. It's a tradeoff. The Human has the benefit of higher CHA and the snare necklace. The Halfling has the 5% XP bonus, hide and sneak. DE is also in the conversation with great aesthetics, Ultravision, hide and the snare neck, but DEs are obviously much less appealing on a server full of Guises.

[iAmAbsurd]

No you should not pump Charisma, and yes you will be noticeably suffering from the low WIS if you do. +CHA gear is cheap and easily acquired, +WIS gear is more expensive and harder to come by. And every point of +WIS you get from stats means more slots you can instead devote to +Mana, +HP or +Resists, all of which you will benefit more from on a regular basis than CHA. For an easy example, consider that a low WIS Cleric will probably be forced to wear +WIS jewelry, while the high WIS Cleric can fill those slots with +HP jewelry and become much more sturdy.

Thank you for the lightning fast reply and incredible information. Makes a lot of sense and I now understand the concept of having a deep base to allow for the ability to swap and retain considerable wisdom without relying on every piece to support your main stat.

Do the clickable items for humans both snare and fear, retain their functionality throughout the game? Will velious mobs lose the effect of snare or fear more quickly or be less effective in general because of the level of the spell the items are actually casting? Are those items useful that late into the game?

[Vexenu]

Do the clickable items for humans both snare and fear, retain their functionality throughout the game? Will velious mobs lose the effect of snare or fear more quickly or be less effective in general because of the level of the spell the items are actually casting? Are those items useful that late into the game?

The snare necklace is most useful when you're duoing with a Mage, Enchanter or melee class, which is a not-infrequent proposition as a Cleric. It's nice because with snare not only do you stop mobs from fleeing, but you get free damage on the last 20% of their health, which ends up saving you mana on heals. It remains useful even at 60. The level of the spell itself does not reduce its effectiveness in that regard, only the magic resistance of the mob you cast it on (as well as the level differential between you and the mob). Some people poo-poo the snare neck because it has a 6 second cast, but 6 seconds is not that long in EQ, and it's well-worth casting in many situations. Plus it's simply a spell you will never otherwise have access to as a Cleric. It's a very good item and along with the other Human advantages (high CHA, high STR, good WIS, Infravision/See Invis helm, able to wear robes) makes Inny Human probably the strongest choice overall.

[Jimjam]

I found the necklace useful to snare+fear spectres while nukespamming them.

[Tuljin]

The Inny snare neck is an incredibly valuable item. You rarely group with someone who can snare and the road from 51-60 is a very long one. The long cast time is something you can easily account for considering that clerics generally don't do much besides sit and heal anyways. People who poo-poo it never had one.

The final 20% of a mobs health damage-free does indeed save lots of mana over time, however with the Inny snare neck the mob doesn't entirely stop until 15% health and flees very slowly from 20-15. The duration isn't horribly long either so you need to anticipate that and make sure the snare lands as close as possible to 20%.

The main reason the max CHA roll came about is from min/maxers on Blue that could sit in a ~rAiD~ guild and with 3.5 years of Kunark before 5 years of Velious they would be guaranteed the gear to go over hardcap on WIS at some point in their toons life. This is also where the Dwarf roll with full stamina comes from, especially if you knew you were never going to group and just going to ~rAiD~, never needing charisma at all. Going over softcap is far less than ideal but going over hardcap on a stat you put points into at roll means completely wasted points. There was so much silly gear on Blue that you could have 85 base WIS and still go over hardcap.

The reality is is that on Green there are way too many mouths to feed and the timeline is very short. There will be a small handful of uber dragon gear on Green compared to 8 years of VP farming and 5 years of NToV farming on Blue. DKP won't be getting you a Crown of Rile, a loot council will.

So really your points at roll on a Human really all depend on your "playstyle," how comfortable you are running low WIS, and whether or not you plan on trying to get top ~rAiD~ loot. If you are serious about catching your med ticks and not being in sloppy groups you don't need a deep mana pool. I have successfully duoed some of the toughest mobs in old world that can't really be feasibly soloed with a laughably low WIS total. I also pull the mobs. For these encounters you absolutely need to maximize your AC HP and resists by wearing as much plate as you can. AC is a very powerful stat on this box and its actually very important, even for ~a cLeRiC~. The high base strength of a Human cleric makes this possible and really is one of the main benefits.

The issue with old world cleric gear is that there really isn't any plate that gives you both WIS and AC/HP, which changes with your planar gear and Kunark. My guildies and friends know I have the absolute lowest wisdom of anybody and they don't pick someone with "more WIS" over me lol. If you know you will be duoing a lot with a shaman you will definitely be calming and you will need lots of CHA points. If you try to go for WIS in Old World you will be a paper cleric in a hodgepodge of odd gear and you'll greatly sacrifice HP AC and resists, which goes completely against "clerics" in fantasy-themed games which....wear plate.

Because I like "statty" toons, I knew I would be playing duo with my brother's shaman a lot, and I knew I wouldn't ever be getting top dragon loot I went 15 WIS and 15 CHA at roll. That means I am 10 points under max for both WIS and CHA. I beat myself up for a while for not tanking the extra 10 CHA but these days I really don't. If I knew I'd be getting ~rAiD~ loot I would definitely crank full CHA. I certainly don't miss the extra 10 possible wisdom I don't have.

If you are on Red you die when you run out of mana, so that would definitely change things. This isn't Red though. Its a PvE box where most people who roll Cleric want to find the best gambit/scam to get to max level and get the absolute best gear possible by sitting around collecting DKP in whatever way possible. Even the difference in type of player on P99 has changed from 10 years ago at the launch of the project compared to now. The type of "gamer" on Green is vastly different from the Gen-X stoner that played EQ at launch 20 years ago who was attracted to anything fantasy-themed with long hair and Frank Frazetta artwork on their walls.

If you know you are going to be shooting for the "best" gear, full CHA at roll is the absolute min/max, even if you "won't be grouping." You'll hit hardcap with cleric ~rAiD~ gear in later expansions even with 85 base WIS. To answer iAmAbsurd's question if he will be "suffering tremendously until i am able to get to the real end game and get my wisdom higher" if you were to roll max CHA, the answer is no. You in fact wouldn't suffer at all.

If you roll max WIS at roll you won't "suffer" either, however you also won't be any "better" as a cleric. Being "better" comes from not wasting mana, catching med ticks, and being good at EQ. You will, however, end up over softcap and eventually over hardcap with wasted points from roll. That's also totally fine because when you're at that point on this box you're doing nothing but parking your toon and waiting for batphones anyways. Wasted stat points from roll just completely goes against the mix/max "competitive" mentality of the players on P99 at this point. That's really what this whole WIS/CHA discussion is all about.

[Lampolo]

I like to raid naked

[Gustoo]

If you aren't going to full blown raid like a mad dog and MAX your stats, do wisdom

If you ARE going to full blown raid like a mad dog and MAX your stats, do Charisma, then STR or AGI because stamina will hit the 255 when you're JACKED on best gear.

REgarding Robe you will probably use https://wiki.project1999.com/Akkirus'_Chestplate_of_the_Risen because you're gunna wanna click that mark of karn all the time? maybe? Free heals I dunno. Might generate too much aggro I've never had one.

But robe of azure sky you need to be insane to get to loot because its BIS for so many people and obvious status symbol.

So i dunno. I'd prolly roll a halflin.

[DMN]

No you should not pump Charisma, and yes you will be noticeably suffering from the low WIS if you do. +CHA gear is cheap and easily acquired, +WIS gear is more expensive and harder to come by. And every point of +WIS you get from stats means more slots you can instead devote to +Mana, +HP or +Resists, all of which you will benefit more from on a regular basis than CHA. For an easy example, consider that a low WIS Cleric will probably be forced to wear +WIS jewelry, while the high WIS Cleric can fill those slots with +HP jewelry and become much more sturdy.

This is not to say CHA is useless for a Cleric. It's worth having some +CHA gear. But unless you are regularly breaking camps solo or trying to cast lull on mobs near your own level, you won't benefit much from high CHA. Realistically you won't be pulling or breaking camps much as a grouping Cleric, and if you do you will probably only cast the spell once to initially break the camp. And you will likely be casting on low blue con XP mobs with a low resist rate.


Again, there very, very few good charisma items that provide additional stats a cleric will want, and any cleric will eventually easily hit the soft cap at 200 wisdom regardless of starting stats by using plate-based items that will boost other important stats like HP/AC/resists.

You do yourself a disservice by not adding cha to your cleric unless you intend to purely use the character as raid cleric( lots of options but might as well go high elf to minmax wis/mana) or a rez-bot(make a halfling).

[Vexenu]

You don't wear dedicated +CHA gear all the time, you wear it to break camps or when otherwise casting a Lull where a crit fail will probably get you killed. Those are very limited scenarios in terms of overall playtime for most Clerics.

And it's really not that easy to hit 200 WIS in Classic and Kunark gear (obviously with Velious raid gear it doesn't matter anymore). You're basically forced to prioritize +WIS in every slot to do it, so you miss out on a lot of good +Mana and +HP items to do so (i.e. you probably can't afford to use a Sarnak Battle Shield and HP jewelry, which boost your survivability substantially).

Very few groups have wiped in EQ because the Cleric's CHA was too low. On the other hand, it's the most common thing in the world for a group or raid to wipe because Clerics ran out of mana, or because the Cleric pulled agro and died.

Prioritizing CHA over WIS on a Cleric is not wrong for everyone. But it is wrong for the vast majority of players. It's literally the exact same as people who say you should prioritize STA over INT on INT casters. It's technically correct in the very long run perspective, but really only pays dividends once you obtain extremely high-end gear. You'll be gimped 1-60 and until late Velious. This applies doubly on Green where gearing will be much more competitive.

[DMN]

You don't wear dedicated +CHA gear all the time, you wear it to break camps or when otherwise casting a Lull where a crit fail will probably get you killed. Those are very limited scenarios in terms of overall playtime for most Clerics.

So you want to take off all your good wis/ac/hp/resist gear at the riskiest time possible. Sounds like a great idea.

Then we get into the fact that clerics main way to get around most area is going to be lulling stuff so they can pass without aggro, or the fact that you will invariably be doing CRs naked.


And it's really not that easy to hit 200 WIS in Classic and Kunark gear (obviously with Velious raid gear it doesn't matter anymore). You're basically forced to prioritize +WIS in every slot to do it, so you miss out on a lot of good +Mana and +HP items to do so (i.e. you probably can't afford to use a Sarnak Battle Shield and HP jewelry, which boost your survivability substantially).


Nope. You just equip the best shit you can equip for whatever it is you are doing. You pretty much never need 200 wis anyway except for maybe a raid cleric.


Very few groups have wiped in EQ because the Cleric's CHA was too low. On the other hand, it's the most common thing in the world for a group or raid to wipe because Clerics ran out of mana, or because the Cleric pulled agro and died.

The actual raid mana of clerics will hardly differ regardless of starting stats. They all hit 200 wisdom, and +mana items usually aren't nearly as effective as pure wisdom items prior to the cap. At most, you end up with something like 100 more mana to play with versus same race cleric.



Prioritizing CHA over WIS on a Cleric is not wrong for everyone. But it is wrong for the vast majority of players. It's literally the exact same as people who say you should prioritize STA over INT on INT casters. It's technically correct in the very long run perspective, but really only pays dividends once you obtain extremely high-end gear. You'll be gimped 1-60 and until late Velious. This applies doubly on Green where gearing will be much more competitive.


i already addressed this. if you want to be a pure raid bot, that's fine. Realistically, no raid guild gives a flying fuck what you put your starting points in as long as you will raid with your cleric. But you might give a fuck when your charisma is shit and it reduces your effectiveness at doing an non raid content<-- and this will be the case for most players, even players who are in raiding guilds.

[unleashedd]

consider this: lull is the only spell you can cast on a target without LOS as a pulling mechanism (if critical resist). CHA gear is easy to get for successful lulls, but bottomed out CHA isnt as easy to get... halfling!

[Gustoo]

OOO i like the reverse critical resist negative charisma.

Does lull critical resist still single pull though?

It SHOULDNT (i dont think) but it might here.

[Faywind]

As a human cleric, should I even bother putting points into str and sta? Or just go wis/cha? I'll be solo mostly and not concerned about leveling speed. Just don't want to regret having low stats on say str or sta down the line. Plate is heavy so even with base human str you are still close to max limit i would think.

[Tuljin]

Human has plenty of STR and STA, also Cleric gear has a good amount of STR on it. You'll have plenty. Point out WIS/CHA.

[DMN]

consider this: lull is the only spell you can cast on a target without LOS as a pulling mechanism (if critical resist). CHA gear is easy to get for successful lulls, but bottomed out CHA isnt as easy to get... halfling!

This was prolly a joke post, but : lull is quick to spam and costs very little mana. And how often is lull pulling even something you'd want to do? very rarely.

[Crede]

I’d go all cha on a human cleric and rest str. Wisdom hella easy to max down the road.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I have a human innoruuk cleric. It is quite fun to be able to fear kite:D

Instant global cooldown referesh, see invis, and infravision (so your human can see) wombo combo:

https://wiki.project1999.com/Fright_Forged_Helm

Infinite free fear kite kit:

https://wiki.project1999.com/Regent_Symbol_of_Innoruuk
https://wiki.project1999.com/Terror_Forged_Mask

It's like a shadowknight/paladin/cleric combo hehe. Granted the clinging darkness doesn't last long, or snare very well, but its still a lot of fun!