Why is boxing frowned upon?

[Stinkas]

not looking to change the rule. it's not my server
i want get an understanding for the position

[Littlefinger]

I'm not the dev's but my understanding is that it is believed that if boxing were allowed many people would forgo seeking out other players for aid and groups and thus undermine the social aspect of the game.

I, personally, agree with this.

[GuiltyLight]

What Littlefinger said. Boxing is fun on its own, but having played Live and a few other servers that allow boxing, it really kills any chance that the game would feel "like it did back in the day". When everyone is their own group, 99% of groups are just one person. Also you end up seeing one boxer monopolize an entire zone.

[tobi]

not looking to change the rule. it's not my server
i want get an understanding for the position

It's not frowned upon, it's against the rules. Hope you enjoy your ban. :)

[El-Hefe]

It's a completely different game when people can box, and that game is not Classic EQ.

[branamil]

Because if you go to get some xp and the best spots are taken by some loser with a bot army, you'll get bored and log off. Then the server would just end up being 5 fat unemployed dudes running around with their bots

[Draulius]

If this game had a monthly fee like classic I would be fine with boxing, as that greatly limits the amount of people who can do it. However, as a free service boxing must be prohibited or it would ruin the community.

[Stinkas]

why would i get banned?
i know it's a rule (and one i'm not looking to change). i stated that in my original post. what's odd is that you quoted me saying that in your reply.
my question was to get a feel as to why the rule existed; as in was it something the server owners desired or the players.
researching a server, imo, is necessary when committing countless hours playing on it. the question i asked is part of that process.
please don't shoot from the hip when replying.

[Stinkas]

ty

[Stinkas]

EQ was different things for different people. what that being the case i can't say the way you experienced it was wrong. that is not for me to say. however, back in the day people boxed (different from bot'g). i can't even recall if it was against the rules then.

my first, and only, guild leader boxed. we were a small guild back then (we eventually hovered in the 3-5 spot in PoP). he would play his main and depending on who logged in that day fire up an alt to fill in the necessary slot to form a group (as we had several doing different things). With alt in tow we would group up and adventure forth, sometimes his wife's druid or sometimes one of his own. He still actively recruited mind you, but in his mind he wanted to respect the time of the people who logged in at the time frame that was considered guild time. he also trade-skilled like a beast to support us (this gets a mention because of the factions). i highly respected this and supported him because of it. he used boxing to make sure no one was left out - as a tool. i would hardly call his actions anti-social.

like i said, i can't say the way you experienced EQ was wrong. nor can anyone say the way i experienced it was either. and yes, back in the day people boxed.

respectfully, i disagree, but thank you for your reply. like i said, i'm not looking to change the rules. just giving a different viewpoint and get a feel for the server's viewpoints.

[Stinkas]

this a great answer, ty.
so you don't mind it per say, just how it's abused.

[Stinkas]

i appreciate your reply. but boxing and bot'g are two different things.

[Stinkas]

ty for your reply
agree to disagree.
boxing (unlike bot'g) was allowed afaik so the classic claim doesn't hold for me, sorry. i could have maybe met you halfway with full group boxing.

again, i'm not looking to change the rules, just trying to get a feel for the community.

regards.

[OuterChimp]

Because if you go to get some xp and the best spots are taken by some loser with a bot army, you'll get bored and log off. Then the server would just end up being 5 fat unemployed dudes running around with their bots

Well said. I agree.

[Chintofv]

Don't feel bad Stinkas. A lot of people instantly want to jump on anyone that has a legit question and act like they are the only ones that ever played EQ back in the day. For me, I used to box back on live in 1999-2000, but I was living in a dorm and had a T1 line back then and could afford 2 accounts. Now, sadly, computers would allow someone to easily box 6+ accounts all windowed, which would actually ruin many zones. Given the amount of neckbeards that are willing to camp 18+ hours for a semi useful item merely to have a chance of making money in a couple of years, you can only imagine how said players would exploit being able to six box.

[Polycaster]

It's not frowned upon, it's against the rules. Hope you enjoy your ban. :)

You were a hall monitor weren't you?

[Synthlol]

i want get an understanding for the position

The thesis is that players' dependence on socialization in classic EQ was a vital component of its success and popularity, and that free boxing removes too much of that dependence.

You may disagree, but the relative success of p99 compared to all other emulated EQ servers is strong evidence that it is correct.

[tobi]

You may disagree, but the relative success of p99 compared to all other emulated EQ servers is strong evidence that it is correct.

This. It's against the rules because it's a huge part of what makes p99 successful. If you want to box there are plenty of other shit servers with shit populations you can play on.

You can wordplay all you want about it being "frowned upon" rather than straight up against the rules or that you will "agree to disagree" about whatever the fuck. It doesn't matter what you think. Don't box here or enjoy your ban.

[Chintofv]

You can wordplay all you want about it being "frowned upon" rather than straight up against the rules or that you will "agree to disagree" about whatever the fuck. It doesn't matter what you think. Don't box here or enjoy your ban.

Why be a douche and assume the guy is trying to game the system? Not everybody thinks like you do. Look at the guys join date. He literally has been here less than a month.

[Master Roshi]

This. It's against the rules because it's a huge part of what makes p99 successful. If you want to box there are plenty of other shit servers with shit populations you can play on.

You can wordplay all you want about it being "frowned upon" rather than straight up against the rules or that you will "agree to disagree" about whatever the fuck. It doesn't matter what you think. Don't box here or enjoy your ban.

Were your parents murdered by a 2 Boxer in a dark alley? The dude just asked why the policy exists, he even stated at the onset that he isn't lobbying for change. You lack of play-nice could get you banned just as easily as a boxer if this is how you roll on the server.

[Danth]

Free accounts and modern clients change things significantly relative to 20 years ago. EQ wouldn't even alt-tab in the early days. That's why it's called "multi-boxing," people literally needed multiple computers. Hence boxing existed but tended to be the exception rather than the norm. As other posters have mentioned, look at what happens on other emulators that permit multi-character playing--in all cases it runs rampant and leads to dead or near-dead servers with miniscule communities. P1999's no-boxing rule attracts and keeps a lot of players including some who prefer other eras of the game better than the classic period. It's the right rule for the environment and conditions.

Danth

[Blingy]

this a great answer, ty.
so you don't mind it per say, just how it's abused.
If you played during PoP and your guild leader boxed then you should know how it gets abused. I also played during PoP and saw boxing get abused heavily. There were even places in Luclin where boxing was abused. Either you don't know what the hell you're talking about (ie, really don't how boxing can lead to abuse) or are deliberately being obtuse.

i appreciate your reply. but boxing and bot'g are two different things.
Semantics

ty for your reply
agree to disagree.
boxing (unlike bot'g) was allowed afaik so the classic claim doesn't hold for me, sorry. i could have maybe met you halfway with full group boxing.

again, i'm not looking to change the rules, just trying to get a feel for the community.

regards.
Bullshit. If you really wanted to get a feel for the community you would have simply searched for threads relating to boxing. I just did a search on the word "boxing" at the top of the page and got over 500 hits.

Don't feel bad Stinkas. A lot of people instantly want to jump on anyone that has a legit question and act like they are the only ones that ever played EQ back in the day. For me, I used to box back on live in 1999-2000, but I was living in a dorm and had a T1 line back then and could afford 2 accounts. Now, sadly, computers would allow someone to easily box 6+ accounts all windowed, which would actually ruin many zones. Given the amount of neckbeards that are willing to camp 18+ hours for a semi useful item merely to have a chance of making money in a couple of years, you can only imagine how said players would exploit being able to six box.
If it was a legit question that would be one thing. He's acting like an edgy 15 year old that's smarter than the rest of the server. Many of us are old, not senile or stupid.

Why be a douche and assume the guy is trying to game the system? Not everybody thinks like you do. Look at the guys join date. He literally has been here less than a month.
There's a search function. He could take 10 minutes out of his life and learn everything he's asking about if that was his true goal. To me and others like me this thread is a guy trying to normalize edgy behavior or is trying to figure out how he can box without any repercussions.

Were your parents murdered by a 2 Boxer in a dark alley? The dude just asked why the policy exists, he even stated at the onset that he isn't lobbying for change. You lack of play-nice could get you banned just as easily as a boxer if this is how you roll on the server.
If he wanted to learn about boxing he could have searched for it like I just did. It's a rather easy process. As I said above, many of us see this thread as an attempt to normalize boxing behavior.

Dear "I just want to know why" people....not sure if you realize it or not but what you're doing/asking is known in the psychology world at "Normalizing Behavior".

Start out asking questions that are known to be against the rules, societal norms or even against the law. This doesn't only apply to P99 but it applies to dam near every type of behavior that living creatures do. The more times the question is raised the more normal it becomes.

Once the ice has been broken continue to chip around the edges to find a weak spot in hopes of gaining traction somewhere. In this instance you're acting like a victim when people tell you to knock it off. Many of us here have heard the same crap over and over. We're basically tired of telling you to knock it off. You could have used search and found answers to your question several times over.

Your "agree to disagree" is tiring. This is Rogen and Nilbog's house. I personally am very grateful they're letting me and others in here. Hell, I even bring a case of beer (ie, paypal donation) on top of agreeing to behave respectfully (ie, follow their rules). Nothing is saying I have to share a beer with the house owners but it's called respect; reap what you sow. If you disagree with a stance you're welcome to get the hell out of the sandbox they are providing is wonderful; we like this sandbox! If you don't like the rules of this sandbox go make your own sandbox or play in a different sandbox that allows you to throw handfuls of mud at each other....shit doesn't fly here.

[Chintofv]

You seem like an angry guy. If I ever need to hire a lawyerquesting attorney, I’ll put you on retainer. You have a real knack for taking down strawmen.

[Mblake81]

EQ was different things for different people. what that being the case i can't say the way you experienced it was wrong. that is not for me to say. however, back in the day people boxed (different from bot'g). i can't even recall if it was against the rules then.

my first, and only, guild leader boxed. we were a small guild back then (we eventually hovered in the 3-5 spot in PoP). he would play his main and depending on who logged in that day fire up an alt to fill in the necessary slot to form a group (as we had several doing different things). With alt in tow we would group up and adventure forth, sometimes his wife's druid or sometimes one of his own. He still actively recruited mind you, but in his mind he wanted to respect the time of the people who logged in at the time frame that was considered guild time. he also trade-skilled like a beast to support us (this gets a mention because of the factions). i highly respected this and supported him because of it. he used boxing to make sure no one was left out - as a tool. i would hardly call his actions anti-social.

like i said, i can't say the way you experienced EQ was wrong. nor can anyone say the way i experienced it was either. and yes, back in the day people boxed.

respectfully, i disagree, but thank you for your reply. like i said, i'm not looking to change the rules. just giving a different viewpoint and get a feel for the server's viewpoints.

https://i.imgur.com/u3aOO7R.gif

Free accounts and modern clients change things significantly relative to 20 years ago. EQ wouldn't even alt-tab in the early days. That's why it's called "multi-boxing," people literally needed multiple computers. Hence boxing existed but tended to be the exception rather than the norm. As other posters have mentioned, look at what happens on other emulators that permit multi-character playing--in all cases it runs rampant and leads to dead or near-dead servers with miniscule communities. P1999's no-boxing rule attracts and keeps a lot of players including some who prefer other eras of the game better than the classic period. It's the right rule for the environment and conditions.

Danth

https://i.imgur.com/g2F3Syu.gif

[sbarrosgirl]

I'm in the process of moving over from an eqemu server that permits boxing. It literally kills the game. I despise boxing. Let me rephrase that. I despise trying to run more than one character myself, as it just sucks all the fun out of the game for me. Grouping was the best part of EQ. (Also the worst if your groupmates sucked.)

I personally don't care if people want to box, I'd just rather not be on a server with them because it kills any chance of finding regular groups. Post about how you want to group, you get a bunch of PMs responding how to install veryvanilla or kissassist and which toons to level up in order to make your own group. :(

[Elleinad]

Because if you go to get some xp and the best spots are taken by some loser with a bot army, you'll get bored and log off. Then the server would just end up being 5 fat unemployed dudes running around with their bots

Hey! and maybe one or two ladies! :D #ninjasmile2020

[Swish]

If you are interested in boxing, head on over to the TAK Project website - its not Velious locked but its the nearest populated emulator thats boxing friendly up to 3 accounts.

[Skunkranger]

I didn't notice anyone mention this so I will, PC's back in 1999 (when I started playing) were not capable of running multiple instances of EQ at the same time for a few reasons. They just weren't fast enough for one thing and secondly you couldn't even run EQ in windowed mode because it would CTD. I had popups from viruses crashing EQ constantly which was rampant back in '99. On top of that most (if not all of us) were playing over a dial-up connection that couldn't handle the load of boxing. I would get kicked off the internet if someone made a call to my house phone. My point is boxing ruins an EQ server and it definitely is not classic.

[OuterChimp]

I remember I couldn't run with spell effects showing back in the day or my computer would overheat and freeze up.

[Menden]

I didn't notice anyone mention this so I will, PC's back in 1999 (when I started playing) were not capable of running multiple instances of EQ at the same time for a few reasons. They just weren't fast enough for one thing and secondly you couldn't even run EQ in windowed mode because it would CTD. I had popups from viruses crashing EQ constantly which was rampant back in '99. On top of that most (if not all of us) were playing over a dial-up connection that couldn't handle the load of boxing. I would get kicked off the internet if someone made a call to my house phone. My point is boxing ruins an EQ server and it definitely is not classic.

That's pretty much it. Also it goes against the social aspect of the game. We enforce it heavily and you will be suspended or banned if caught boxing.

[greenspectre]

Boxing is a hot topic on Emu servers and always will be. Allowing it can provide different play experiences and also allow server creators to tune their servers a certain way. I've played on boxing and non-boxing servers, and I can say boxing is USUALLY best used as a crutch to get people playing on a newer server, where they can experience the server's intended play experience without having to just hope that server pop increases to the level needed.

That said, with a server pop like p99, there's really no good reason to box. Especially with the intention of the server itself. Boxers DID exist in the 1999-2000 era, but they were both rare and not in the Vision of the game itself. Rogean and dadbod Thor and company have tasked themselves with keeping that vision intact.

There are several servers that allow boxing and provide that experience well, if that's what you're looking for. Somebody suggested TAKP, I have done runs on Visions of Grandeur and Casual Dreams, where I learned how to use MQ2, and had a decent time. There's also what I like to call "Manual Box" servers, which allow boxing but don't allow MQ2, and usually limit you to 2 toons at a time. This is a solid compromise IMO, and if that's what you're looking for I suggest Imperium. It's probably the second best play experience to be had in emu servers, with p99 being the first.

The rules are here for a reason- you can't have the legitimate social aspect, high server pop, and focused roleplaying that you have on p99 when players can run their own groups and monopolize content by themselves. I hope p99 offers what you're looking for- even if you think it doesn't I'd suggest giving it a try. If not, then that's cool too, and hopefully you find the server you are looking for :)

[gildor]

It's a completely different game when people can box, and that game is not Classic EQ.

Wrong. I boxed in 2000

[kjs86z]

Exhibit A: Red Server

[Mblake81]

Wrong. I boxed in 2000

Cool, you had two computers or access to two comps back in 1999-2001. You could also load up UT99 or Quake Arena like that. Shoot yourself on one then run to the other and shoot back.

[Mil]

Boxing would kill the server. There isn't a ton of content in Classic EQ and boxing would make it trivial for a handful of people to monopolize that content. Plus it's nice to know when you do a /who of any given zone you know there is a real, unique person behind each name.

The Tak Project is a classic emulated server that allows boxing with an actual classic client, (dreaming of the day P99 switches out of Titanium for the glorious fixed screen UI). I suspect it would be a far more popular server if boxing weren't allowed.

[El-Hefe]

Wrong. I boxed in 2000

The exception that proves the rules. Only the crustiest of shut in neckbeards were boxing.

[Topgunben]

The exception that proves the rules. Only the crustiest of shut in neckbeards were boxing.

lol

[Christina.]

it's nice to know when you do a /who of any given zone you know there is a real, unique person behind each name

This is why, nothing else to be said hehe.

[Bardp1999]

The server would wither and die within a couple of months of boxing