Scout Rules seems to be different in practice then posted

[antony.trupe]

I just started showing up for scout rolls yesterday, and expected the rolls to happen before pop like the poll thread mentions: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=282447. But, everyone says not to roll until after pop, which I can't find anything written down supporting. Has there been another post documenting the change to after pop?

[loramin]

http://wiki.project1999.com/Scout_Charisa/Player_Agreement

But ultimately player agreements work by whatever rules everyone consents to at the time.

[antony.trupe]

So if I think the new way is not the best way and think the original way is better, what happens then? Petitionfest?

[loramin]

So if I think the new way is not the best way and think the original way is better, what happens then? Petitionfest?

No, you convince everyone else. It's painful, but that's how you change player agreements: you have to get the players to agree.

[antony.trupe]

But not everyone is convinced to follow the new unwritten rules, so why is the burden on me and not on them?

[Tilien]

Player made agreements are supposed to be server wide consensus and not "who is here" consensus, in order to prevent say... 1 guild from showing up and saying they all agree to something that the 1-2 unguilded do not agree to. Or for the 20 level 56+ players to say that they don't want the level 52 rolling on it.

This is especially true if they are GM enforceable, which they have been stated as being.

It would be important to post updates to the agreement on the wiki or forum posts.

[antony.trupe]

I'm thinking about making a new poll to change the rule to after pop, since that seems to be the working consensus, but how do we control when rolling closes? 30 seconds after last roll?

[Hideousclaw]

it usually ends after a short period of time. Roughly 30sec. helps to prevent someone from rolling while sitting, losing, swapping, and rolling again.

As for changing the written rule to reflect how its done currently? Its widely known by the same people who show up every time. Not really necessary to rewrite and start over again. Just roll after pop. everyone does already. easy.

[Hideousclaw]

At best, ask for the page Loramin posted be updated to reflect on how its been commonly done now.

[Fammaden]

How many people are showing up for scout rolls these days?

[Hideousclaw]

How many people are showing up for scout rolls these days?

Dozen. give or take

[antony.trupe]

At best, ask for the page Loramin posted be updated to reflect on how its been commonly done now.

I can edit the wiki page so say whatever I want it to say.
The wiki supersedes the forums? I'd think it'd be the other way.

[antony.trupe]

How many people are showing up for scout rolls these days?

I've seen as low as 15 and as high 25 the past 2 days. Might be skewed high because of the holidays.

[antony.trupe]

At best, ask for the page Loramin posted be updated to reflect on how its been commonly done now.

I updated the wiki page to reference this thread and strike the Roll Time section. Roll whenever now I guess, doesn't seem to be a server consensus.

[loramin]

I can edit the wiki page so say whatever I want it to say.
The wiki supersedes the forums? I'd think it'd be the other way.

What the players actually do in-game trumps everything. All that either the wiki or the forum are are ways to "spread the word" about the player agreement.

If the significant majority of the players at the roll don't want to follow any previous rule, that rule goes away. How long exactly does this take? No one knows, because the GMs have never defined it ... probably to avoid issues like a guild trying to change the rules on an off week.

But the point is, the staff only enforces the group's consensus:

If everyone else is rolling and you decide that it doesn't apply to you, you're gonna have a bad time.

Beyond that, it's up to the community to agree on common standards, and if they can't (and again, it's more than just one week and more than just one or two rejects not participating while everyone else is) then the agreement ends.

Again, the staff have never really defined all this, but that's more or less what the rules amount to, as far as I can tell.

[antony.trupe]

That Llandris quote is helpful, what's it from?

[Tilien]

What the players actually do in-game trumps everything. All that either the wiki or the forum are are ways to "spread the word" about the player agreement.

If the significant majority of the players at the roll don't want to follow any previous rule, that rule goes away. How long exactly does this take? No one knows, because the GMs have never defined it ... probably to avoid issues like a guild trying to change the rules on an off week.

But the point is, the staff only enforces the group's consensus:



Beyond that, it's up to the community to agree on common standards, and if they can't (and again, it's more than just one week and more than just one or two rejects not participating while everyone else is) then the agreement ends.

Again, the staff have never really defined all this, but that's more or less what the rules amount to, as far as I can tell.

But the "everyone else rolling" quote is in the context of the existing, formalized player agreement. If the consensus is based on who showed up, then what's the point of a player agreement and what's to stop everyone who showed up one day from agreeing that you need to be 58+ to roll? Making it based on who showed up that day and not on an existing, posted consensus seems like a good way to trick new people who are showing up for the first time. While this may mean only little on Blue, it should be ruled on before these agreements come into play on Green/Teal.

[Thaak]

That Llandris quote is helpful, what's it from?
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2866631&postcount=256

[aaezil]

Will the player agreements that exist on blue also exist on green/teal or is it up to them to figure it out?

[Hideousclaw]

Will the player agreements that exist on blue also exist on green/teal or is it up to them to figure it out?

I believe its up to them

[Swish]

You know what? I think we don't have enough rules on P99.