Cerlic Starting Stats - Are Stamina & Chrisma really JUST a min/max choice?

[Sonnenkrieger]

I'm planning on making a Cleric (still not sure whether he will be a High Elf or a Dark Elf) and I keep seeing people say that most people should spend 25 starting points on Wisdom (the last 5 seems to be a tossup) and that only Min/Maxers would pump Stamina and/or Charisma at character creation. But, is that really true? I'm still new to EQ, but I have put in a few hundred hours at this point. So far I am NEVER full Mana in a group except for the very beginning of it and then the advantage is gone. So, I get like 1 extra cast over a period lasting hours. Meanwhile, I go full Health many times during that period, making me think Stamina is actually more useful. And Charisma, well, I've read some threads that seem to show it is fairly important for Clerics; certainly more important than 1 extra cast every X number of hours.

So, is the conventional wisdom that Wisdom (hehe) at character creation is the casual choice really correct? Or is it simply a bad choice? Because even as someone who has yet to raid it seems like a bad thing to spend my starting points on.

[Madbad]

Go full dex and report back with results

[DMN]

Why even worry about those points if you are even considering rolling a dark elf? if you see yourself raiding constantly, go dorf and max stamina. if you see yourself staying out of raid content mostly, take a human who follows innoruk and put all your points into charisma. if fashionquest is so important to you though, all these points are irrelevant.

[Sonnenkrieger]

Why even worry about those points if you are even considering rolling a dark elf? if you see yourself raiding constantly, go dorf and max stamina. if you see yourself staying out of raid content mostly, take a human who follows innoruk and put all your points into charisma. if fashionquest is so important to you though, all these points are irrelevant.I'm not really worried about them; it's more of a question of: Why does everyone recommend Wisdom as the starting stat pump for most people when its usefulness in groups is only present during the first few seconds of them, as opposed to the usefulness of Stamina and Charisma which provide benefits as long as the group lasts? I'll go with what I think is best, but I am curious about the justifications people have for the above question.

Also, Dwarves can't wear robes and I plan to play long term.

[DMN]

I'm not really worried about them; it's more of a question of: Why does everyone recommend Wisdom as the starting stat pump for most people when its usefulness in groups is only present during the first few seconds of them, as opposed to the usefulness of Stamina and Charisma which provide benefits as long as the group lasts? I'll go with what I think is best, but I am curious about the justifications people have for the above question.

Also, Dwarves can't wear robes and I plan to play long term.

Ahh, well it seems the "few seconds" that actually might be the most important are the last few seconds when you run out of mana and can't heal anymore. even if you are never FM in a group you started out with more in the gas tank, so that theoretical extra heal is still there. Additionally if you do solo more wisdom can be good because they aren't terribly efficient solo'rs and tend to burn up a lot of mana when they do so. More mana will mean you can find harder targets and be less likely to have to abandon a mob because of bad resists.

Edit: and btw this the int casters forum, there is a priest forum.

[Jimjam]

Edit: and btw this the int casters forum, there is a priest forum.We recommend OP spends as many points as possible in int.

[Meiva]

We recommend OP spends as many points as possible in int.

There was this one necro a week in to Green that posted a screenshot showing off his early game loot. Someone noticed from the screenshot that he dumped all of his creation points in to Wisdom. His reaction was champ, but he did end up rerolling at level like 12 bahaha!!

I like this idea of Charisma for a cleric. I dont normally find Wisdom to be tough to soft cap come Kunark. Easy p-z epic quest with big dick wis. A ridiculously awesome high wis BIS shoulder peice from Sky that is so common it rots. There are some early items now that even give decent Wisdom.

As for this era, Wis would be my creation point choice. If I was rolling in Kunark I might seriously consider Charisma. I use pacify late game as cleric to move around, and its spooky as all hell due to crit fails. That Cha would be super useful couples with a few high cha items that you carry with you. If you dont plan to find, create or invest in Cha gear as well. I dont think those creation Cha points will do Jack shit.

The right answer for most people is creation points in to Wisdom. MOST people.

[DMN]

As for this era, Wis would be my creation point choice. If I was rolling in Kunark I might seriously consider Charisma. I use pacify late game as cleric to move around, and its spooky as all hell due to crit fails. That Cha would be super useful couples with a few high cha items that you carry with you. If you dont plan to find, create or invest in Cha gear as well. I dont think those creation Cha points will do Jack shit.

The right answer for most people is creation points in to Wisdom. MOST people.

I'd put a premium on cha even in vanilla. There are just too few very high cha items and decent cha that have good stats otherwise. You basically have tranix crown(hard to get), crude stein, gypsy medallion, opaline earrings, star ruby veil. This is going to leave you far short of 200 if your race is going to start with 75 cha. And the cha affect on lull is very high pre-200. Veil is kinda questionable since it has no stats but 9 cha. Might also mention the fact you will be doing CR... And when you are naked you obviously wont have the benefit of any gear, and the cleric who didn't max cha at character creation is going to be much more likely to get a crit lull fail in these situations.

Edit: actually empirically estimated chances
75 cha would be like 41% crit lull chance
100 would be 34%

[Torik]

It's relatively easy to reach the soft cap in wisdom and if you casually raid you can get some nice items (epic, Thurg/SS armor, Symbol of Tunarian Worship, Weight of the Gods) pretty easily that can really boost your mana pool. If you went high elf, I would not worry about putting any points into wisdom. If you go other races, I'd dump ~10 points into it.

CHA is very situational, but when you absolutely need to calm your way through a dungeon it's nice to have. In fact, I have a HM backpack on me at all times, full of CHA gear, just for that. In addition to the Tranny Crown, there is the Siryn Hair Hood, that is only +13 CHA but 10% the price of the Crown. I did not appreciate the benefit of CHA until I started playing an ENC and realized how much of a difference 50 CHA could make in getting crit calm resists.

Since you draw agro pretty easily from a few heals, the extra STA could be nice. At level 60, +25 STA is +75 HP. It may not sound like much, but I have definitely gated/zoned out of dungeons with less than that at least 50 times.

Finally, a lot of the low-mid level cleric gear (i.e. bronze armor) weighs a lot. If you're not twinked, you're gonna be encumbered most of the time until you can upgrade to better gear. For this reason, some people recommend putting points into STR, but I view this as a temporary benefit, so I would be hesitant to put points there (especially on Blue, since gear is relatively cheap).

[DMN]

Too late for second edit but it's even more stark at the upper end of the cha spectrum.

200 cha = ~7% crit lull
185 cha = ~14%

At those levels the cleric who didn't invest 25 points in cha is twice as likely to get a crit lull.

[Polycaster]

I am NEVER full Mana in a group except for the very beginning

You must stick to very easy groups if this is your only level of analysis. The reason more mana is good is when things get hairy you have a reserve to fall back on and save the day.

The sooner you reach the wis soft cap, the sooner you can start stacking +mana and +hp.

[TheDudeAbides]

It depends what race

There are only 2 viable Cleric races in the game. Each have decent base CHA. The other races have bad starting CHA and/or a stat penalty you have to waste points on (Erudite)

The following races are the only viable Cleric Races.

High Elf (Best starting CHA but you will be eternally encumbered which sucks really really bad. They are also the worst character model in the game. They look like tall goofy albino Charlie Browns)

Human (Good starting CHA and STR (The best Cleric Race)

Wisdom is trivial to cap in this game because EQ is loaded with items that have a lot of Wisdom. You can completely ignore putting points into Wisdom at character creation (except Gnome) - It won't matter at all

At character select choose Human. Put all your points into CHA. Rest into Wisdom. Choose Innoruuk as your Deity. Poopsock Guise while you still have time.

Otherwise don't bother rolling a Cleric

Dwarves are the worst possible choice (55 base CHA or something. People thought dwarves were good when we didn't know that CHA is the best stat in the game period. Times have changed)

Gnomes are garbage (bad starting CHA. For Enchanter this doesn't matter since CHA items for ENC are plentiful and cheap. Gnomes have Bad starting Wisdom however which means you have to choose one or the other as far as maximizing your effectiveness)

DE have decent wisdom but bad starting CHA. You could get by with a DE, but IMO you need to start at the very minimum with 100+ CHA. DE just fall short. Your poor choice can be excused however because of fashionquest. Dark Elves are by far the best looking Cleric Race in the game and there is nothing wrong with starting at a DE female in Gatorlegs for hours everyday

Erudite aren't bad but you have to waste 5 starting points into AGI just so you don't get hit like a wet paper bag

Halfling - Bad starting CHA and you are a Halfling

Make the right choice - Human Cleric of Innoruuk

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