Green - Human Innoruk Cleric

[Stonewallx39]

Hey all, how’s an Evil cleric supposed to get spells in Freeport (or underneath)? I farmed up enough cash to get the rest of my first level spells and clicked every merchant in the tunnels and never saw any cleric spells. Checked the wiki and looks like only cleric spell vendors are in North Freeport goodie Cleric guild. Don’t think I should poke around in there.

Just wondering if I can go to Neriak, or need to have a non evil character go buy them or just missed the merchant or idk something smart I don’t even know about?

Thanks for taking a look.

[Solist]

why do you think you're evil?

You're non kos in more places than any other class/race combination. Go to NFP, buy your spells.

[Stonewallx39]

I guess the whole Innoruk and tunnels etc. although I did notice most merchants sell to me and many are amiable (respect closet Innoruk followers).

So you saying stroll into the temple of Marr like I belong? Sounds fun...

[Tenloar]

I think you're KoS to the Caster guild, so be careful when you run by.

[Solist]

Nope. You ain’t kos pretty much everywhere in the game, few random spots but whatever. Inno war/cle have amazing faction.

[Plaxiglass]

I have a inny human cleric. You are not KOS to Neriak, Rivervale, Freeport, Qeynos.

I was KOS to Barbarian village in West Karana, so I’m assuming KOS to Halas.

Didn’t venture to faydwer yet. Assuming KOS there too.

[Videri]

So you saying stroll into the temple of Marr like I belong? Sounds fun...

Well, as long as you con one of them first.

Secondly, you could have someone transfer plat to a level 1 goodie Human and buy the spells with that character, then have them transferred (or drop-transfer) to your cleric.

[Tenloar]

I have a inny human cleric. You are not KOS to Neriak, Rivervale, Freeport, Qeynos.

I was KOS to Barbarian village in West Karana, so I’m assuming KOS to Halas.

Didn’t venture to faydwer yet. Assuming KOS there too.

Freeport Caster guild is KoS to you so be careful.

And you should be able to buy spells from Temple of Marr

[TheDudeAbides]

Just keep repeating the Innoruuk recommendation quest that starts in EFP

My Bertox Necro is currently conning Kindly to the Neriak Clerics

[Toehammer]

Just keep repeating the Innoruuk recommendation quest that starts in EFP

My Bertox Necro is currently conning Kindly to the Neriak Clerics

I just made an Inny human cleric today. I am still apprehensive to Perrin after turning in letters to him twice.

https://www.reddit.com/r/project1999/comments/dsisgf/human_innoruuk_cleric/

Did something get screwed up?

Also put 25 points in CHA and 5 in WIS... really a good choice?

[Dulian]

Charisma gear is super cheap. I’d rather just carry some +cha pieces in bag rather than lose out of so much wisdom in stats.

[Cen]

Human Innoruuk Cleric is a mega power combo in classic. Humans have the best itemization for Clerics that you can get including the most clickies and access to the special cleric robes, and the faction is good / one of the best across the board as a whole. Your stat aggregate is also the highest among all clerics.

Its probably the best cleric race religion combo, competing with DE Inny who has to sacrifice some of those perks just for Hide, or Halfling who gets Hide and Sneak, but loses a lot of good itemization.

[DMN]

Charisma gear is super cheap. I’d rather just carry some +cha pieces in bag rather than lose out of so much wisdom in stats.

Never understood this logic given the paucity of charisma items that also offer "other important stuff" like AC/HP/mana/resists. Sounds like a losing bargain to me.

[Dulian]

Never understood this logic given the paucity of charisma items that also offer "other important stuff" like AC/HP/mana/resists. Sounds like a losing bargain to me.


If you only need charisma for lulls, then wouldn’t be easier and better to simply swap the items for out +charisma and keep the other starting points for wisdom? Maybe I’m overlooking something. For reference, I have an Inny cleric and have about 100 charisma with gear I’ve collected and with putting my starting points into wisdom and strength. I have a few items in my bags that can easily get my charisma to 145 or so when I need to lull.

[DMN]

If you only need charisma for lulls, then wouldn’t be easier and better to simply swap the items for out +charisma and keep the other starting points for wisdom? Maybe I’m overlooking something. For reference, I have an Inny cleric and have about 100 charisma with gear I’ve collected and with putting my starting points into wisdom and strength. I have a few items in my bags that can easily get my charisma to 145 or so when I need to lull.

This wouldn't be bad logic -- if only you could guarantee 100% lull rates. Even with 200+ cha you are going to get a decent amount critical lulls.

[Dulian]

This wouldn't be bad logic -- if only you could guarantee 100% lull rates. Even with 200+ cha you are going to get a decent amount critical lulls.

Fair enough

[Tuljin]

The min/max Charisma debate is very interesting. It's easy to get wisdom gear but Human has low starting wisdom and people are concerned about a low Mana pool. Considering how most people gear their clerics (entirely +Wis) it makes a lot of sense to dump all your points into Cha.

I've been banging this drum for a long time and I'll keep banging it and people will continue to poo-poo it ----------- ~wisdom isn't a great stat~

Here's another issue. You dump all your points into Charisma. Every single time you get a crit resist for the life of your toon you got hosed on your stat roll. Every single time.

Here's the other issue --- all these people who want Cha to "atone" and "calm" and "navigate dungeons naked for corpse runs" ---- first of all barely anybody who rolls a cleric does these things, and second of all the cleric that does all these things needs sooooome wisdom because they are wearing HP AC Resist gear and not +Wis gear.

Also, the cleric in HP AC Resist gear isn't dying as much as the +Wis cleric, therefore he won't be doing these "naked corpse runs" that are just a production of people's imagination and never actually happen.

I did 15 Wis 15 Cha and I kinda beat myself up about it for a bit but now Im happy with it. I wear one piece of +Wis gear so I am happy with that bit of Wis at roll cause I knew I wouldn't be getting it from gear. I do the most dangerous camps in the game very well duo and trio. I pull and take hits all day. I soloed most of my 40s just fine.

I've done a lot of calming and you know what? It's been great. Clerics have DA. There's WC cap. If you crit resist there are options. If you're with a shaman you get a cha buff. If you're with an Enc you won't be calming. Again, most clerics will not be doing all these crazy things on their own - they'll be sitting on their ass in a full group or sitting on their ass casting CH while a Shaman or Enc does the heavy lifting. They certainly won't be willing to take hits when they don't have over 2000 HP, damn near 800AC, and around 130 MR buffed with all that Wis gear they have on.

Here's another one....you get a Manastone. Why the hell do you have any Wis gear on at all anymore? What the hell do you need Wis for?

Really 25 CHA is a great choice at roll, considering most people's gearing. I did 15 and 15 because I knew what I would be doing with my toon. I won't be joining a ~~~~~rAiD~~~~~ guild and I won't be getting any +20 Wis dragon drops. I don't need them. I made it to 50 and have made plenty of plat and have had plenty of adventures just fine.

You're not missing out on Wis dude, Cha is a good choice.

[Gatorsmash]

I just made an Inny human cleric today. I am still apprehensive to Perrin after turning in letters to him twice.

https://www.reddit.com/r/project1999/comments/dsisgf/human_innoruuk_cleric/

Did something get screwed up?

Also put 25 points in CHA and 5 in WIS... really a good choice?

No. Short answer No, long answer you fucked yourself. Reroll and save yourself some pain.

The amount of idiots in this thread giving you encouragement on choosing a stat that only sorta effects one small aspect of your play (10% MAYBE) while crippling the other 90% of your gameplay over the entire life of your cleric should give you enough pause.

Character creation is the largest single allocation of points for most combos and no matter what type of gameplay style you plan on playing the cleric ( solo, combat, all group) WIS and your mana pool is going to dictate 90% of that

Edit- and before the paint chip eaters chim in, will it stop you from getting to 50? No. Will it increase your med'ing time sitting on your ass or playing OOM by hundreds of hours over the course of the characters life? Making everything a lot less unenjoyable? Ya

[Velerin]

Actually having more mana does mean you’ll be medding more and longer..

[Vexenu]

+25 WIS is nothing to sneeze at, especially in classic and Kunark eras. You won't come close to capping WIS until Velious, especially in resist gear. And remember that every additional bit of +WIS you get at character creation means less +WIS you need from gear, which allows you flexibility to instead itemize for +CHA, Mana, AC, HP or resists as needed.

Also keep in mind that most everything you will be calming as a Cleric will be an XP mob. Meaning a low blue con. So even with only a modest CHA stat you will still have mostly successful calms simply due to the level differential, which only increases as you get to high levels, thus calming gets more reliable as you level.

Honestly it's very dumb to prioritize CHA over WIS on a Cleric. Over the life of the character the additional Mana from extra WIS will probably come in handy and possibly save your group/your life more than some extra CHA preventing a few crit fails while pulling XP mobs (which you should have a plan B for anyway since you will still fail occasionally even with Max CHA).

[Gatorsmash]

+25 WIS is nothing to sneeze at, especially in classic and Kunark eras. You won't come close to capping WIS until Velious, especially in resist gear. And remember that every additional bit of +WIS you get at character creation means less +WIS you need from gear, which allows you flexibility to instead itemize for +CHA, Mana, AC, HP or resists as needed.

Also keep in mind that most everything you will be calming as a Cleric will be an XP mob. Meaning a low blue con. So even with only a modest CHA stat you will still have mostly successful calms simply due to the level differential, which only increases as you get to high levels, thus calming gets more reliable as you level.

Honestly it's very dumb to prioritize CHA over WIS on a Cleric. Over the life of the character the additional Mana from extra WIS will probably come in handy and possibly save your group/your life more than some extra CHA preventing a few crit fails while pulling XP mobs (which you should have a plan B for anyway since you will still fail occasionally even with Max CHA).

Its 23% of your possible maximum starting mana pool for a cleric (25 points) hence my reaction https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=350102

[DMN]

A human with +5 wis could still realistically hit 200 wisdom pre- kunark, pre planes, and with no dragon loot.

if you started with +25 wis you could probably swap 2-3 wis peices with mana pieces, like platinum tiara. And at the end you'd prolly end up with around 100 more mana at 50.

Classic time period clerics will generally be more hit point focused anyway so they can abuse manastone/CH. Even without stones raiding eventually will start breaking down to mana regen methods and not raw stating wisdom. (mod rod, twitching, meditation + clarity + flowing etc.) Humans in particular will eventually be able to use call of bone from a clicky, too, in manastone restricted places for a couple months.

[DMN]

+25 WIS is nothing to sneeze at, especially in classic and Kunark eras. You won't come close to capping WIS until Velious, especially in resist gear. And remember that every additional bit of +WIS you get at character creation means less +WIS you need from gear, which allows you flexibility to instead itemize for +CHA, Mana, AC, HP or resists as needed.

Also keep in mind that most everything you will be calming as a Cleric will be an XP mob. Meaning a low blue con. So even with only a modest CHA stat you will still have mostly successful calms simply due to the level differential, which only increases as you get to high levels, thus calming gets more reliable as you level.

Honestly it's very dumb to prioritize CHA over WIS on a Cleric. Over the life of the character the additional Mana from extra WIS will probably come in handy and possibly save your group/your life more than some extra CHA preventing a few crit fails while pulling XP mobs (which you should have a plan B for anyway since you will still fail occasionally even with Max CHA).

Shouldn't your plan be to not pull shit you can't kill without risking a completely OOM Cleric. Sounds like a pretty dumb group if your strategy is anything else. if your group isn't a bunch of morons it would never save you because you'd always wait until the cleric had enough mana for a given pull. And if by some fluke the extra 100ish mana you will have had would have "saved" you, you could have just as easlly rooted/mez and meditated or even camp out.

[Vexenu]

It just really doesn't make sense to ignore your primary stat on a Cleric, of all classes (being one of the two classes along with Wiz that can realistically expect to be dumping their entire mana bar on a not-infrequent basis), in favor of a stat that is only useful for ONE spell that you probably won't even be using that much. Especially with CHA gear being the cheapest and easiest stat gear to acquire in the game.

I mean, who rolls a Cleric to maximize their pulling ability? Even with high CHA, a Cleric is what, the sixth or seventh best pulling class in the game? After Monks, SKs, Enchanters, Necros, Bards, Rangers and Paladins? When exactly is a Cleric going to be pulling so much that WIS becomes a secondary concern to CHA?

I think this is another example of people attempting to powergame so much they get themselves turned around. The other being people who recommend going 25 STA and 5 INT on INT casters. Yeah, it makes sense if you started the game in NToV gear. But you don't. And if you're on Green you won't have anything close to that for a very long time.

[Dulian]

It just really doesn't make sense to ignore your primary stat on a Cleric, of all classes (being one of the two classes along with Wiz that can realistically expect to be dumping their entire mana bar on a not-infrequent basis), in favor of a stat that is only useful for ONE spell that you probably won't even be using that much. Especially with CHA gear being the cheapest and easiest stat gear to acquire in the game.

I mean, who rolls a Cleric to maximize their pulling ability? Even with high CHA, a Cleric is what, the sixth or seventh best pulling class in the game? After Monks, SKs, Enchanters, Necros, Bards, Rangers and Paladins? When exactly is a Cleric going to be pulling so much that WIS becomes a secondary concern to CHA?

I think this is another example of people attempting to powergame so much they get themselves turned around. The other being people who recommend going 25 STA and 5 INT on INT casters. Yeah, it makes sense if you started the game in NToV gear. But you don't. And if you're on Green you won't have anything close to that for a very long time.

[DMN]

It just really doesn't make sense to ignore your primary stat on a Cleric, of all classes (being one of the two classes along with Wiz that can realistically expect to be dumping their entire mana bar on a not-infrequent basis), in favor of a stat that is only useful for ONE spell that you probably won't even be using that much. Especially with CHA gear being the cheapest and easiest stat gear to acquire in the game.


It's not one spell. It's three cleric spell lines that are affected. Atone, lull, and divine intervention. And it makes plenty of sense since cleric has access to tons of good AC/WiS items, but access to virtually no good Cha/AC/hitpoint items. It doesn't matter if there is cheap cha gear when that gear is is usually devoid of any other useful stats for surviving inevitable critical lulls.


I mean, who rolls a Cleric to maximize their pulling ability? Even with high CHA, a Cleric is what, the sixth or seventh best pulling class in the game? After Monks, SKs, Enchanters, Necros, Bards, Rangers and Paladins? When exactly is a Cleric going to be pulling so much that WIS becomes a secondary concern to CHA?



Anyone who doesn't want to spend their life as a CH bot in a raid would want to be good at pulling for full groups, for duo/trio, and certainly for doing any soloing. clerics are great pullers because they can DA on critical lull fails and if the group has any other competent CC classes, you can get the mobs controlled and hopefully avoid a wipe. They can also root membur adds they didn't want to/couldn't deal with at the time or lull past mobs they don't want to have to bother clearing, especially important when doing CR. Lacking invisibility clerics will often find themselves having to lull their way through dungeons.


I think this is another example of people attempting to powergame so much they get themselves turned around. The other being people who recommend going 25 STA and 5 INT on INT casters. Yeah, it makes sense if you started the game in NToV gear. But you don't. And if you're on Green you won't have anything close to that for a very long time.

Nah. Not the same at all. Int casters get garbage returns on adding stamina even at 60. Those points are barely noticeable. Cha has huge effect per stat point. With 175 cha a character will be TWICE as likely to get a critical lull fail as someone with 200 cha. And you will never hit 150+ cha on an unbuffed cleric without sacrificing major amounts of wisdom/HP/resists/ac .

[Danth]

Why would I want my Cleric pulling? Pullers die--a lot. It's about the riskiest occupation in-game. The whole point of pulling is you use someone who's basically disposable so if/when he dies someone else can take over while the Cleric rezzes him back in and the group keeps on truckin'. The Cleric IS the rezzer for most groups, and quite often when he dies it means either the group's either boned or at least suffers a lengthy delay while he recovers. That's not worth it.

If you're alone or in a duo where you're the only person who has a chance of doing the job, then have at it--you do what you need to do to win. Some Clerics do primarily play in solo/duo situations so this is by no means dismissive of the larger question of statistic allocation.

------------------------------------------

More generally, WIS on a Cleric is akin to STA on a tank type: It's a fairly safe starting allocation. It's not always the best for all races and all players, but it's safe enough. As someone who has argued against always going all STA on tank types, I very much see where DMN is coming from. A player should consider how he intends to use the character in question then create his own character accordingly. Charisma gives good service for a minority of Cleric players who for one reason or another find themselves having to frequently use those spells. I don't recommend it for everyone but it shouldn't be forgotten either.

Danth

[Vexenu]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Hexed_Kerran_Doll +6 CHA
https://wiki.project1999.com/A_Crude_Stein + 15 CHA
https://wiki.project1999.com/Golden_Cat_Eye_Bracelet x 2 +14 CHA
https://wiki.project1999.com/Siryn_Hair_Hood +13 CHA
https://wiki.project1999.com/Electrum_Star_Ruby_Ring x 2 +14 CHA
https://wiki.project1999.com/Platinum_Star_Ruby_Veil +9 CHA
https://wiki.project1999.com/Opalline_Earring x 2 +10 CHA
https://wiki.project1999.com/Cat_Eye_Platinum_Necklace +9 CHA
https://wiki.project1999.com/Drake-hide_Leggings +5 CHA
https://wiki.project1999.com/Silk_Evening_Tunic +5 CHA

That's a nice even total of +100 CHA from easily obtainable items in classic.

If you made a Human with +25 WIS and +5 CHA at start, you could still end up with 180 CHA for high risk calm pulls. In contrast, the cost to obtain +100 WIS from items in classic is much higher.

I have leveled multiple Paladins and Clerics and am very familiar with the calm line. For most pulling situations calm is realistically just being used for convenience and a critical failure won't get you killed, and you're perfectly fine with even under 100 CHA if you're killing XP mobs (had a Dwarf Pally who got a lot of use out of it, even). Yes, there are rare situations where a failed calm is likely to get you killed, but as Danth pointed out, why the hell would you want your Cleric pulling in that situation, as your Cleric is also your rezzer? It makes no sense.

Basically, it only makes sense to pump CHA if you only want to solo your Cleric deep inside dungeons and can twink with +WIS gear already, or you intend duo heavily with a non-Enchanter, non-puller class (i.e. Mage or Warrior) and know you will be the primary puller. In other words, 99% of Clerics should not be doing it and are better off pumping WIS at creation.

[DMN]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Hexed_Kerran_Doll +6 CHA
https://wiki.project1999.com/A_Crude_Stein + 15 CHA
https://wiki.project1999.com/Golden_Cat_Eye_Bracelet x 2 +14 CHA
https://wiki.project1999.com/Siryn_Hair_Hood +13 CHA
https://wiki.project1999.com/Electrum_Star_Ruby_Ring x 2 +14 CHA
https://wiki.project1999.com/Platinum_Star_Ruby_Veil +9 CHA
https://wiki.project1999.com/Opalline_Earring x 2 +10 CHA
https://wiki.project1999.com/Cat_Eye_Platinum_Necklace +9 CHA
https://wiki.project1999.com/Drake-hide_Leggings +5 CHA
https://wiki.project1999.com/Silk_Evening_Tunic +5 CHA

That's a nice even total of +100 CHA from easily obtainable items in classic.

If you made a Human with +25 WIS and +5 CHA at start, you could still end up with 180 CHA for high risk calm pulls. In contrast, the cost to obtain +100 WIS from items in classic is much higher.

I have leveled multiple Paladins and Clerics and am very familiar with the calm line. For most pulling situations calm is realistically just being used for convenience and a critical failure won't get you killed, and you're perfectly fine with even under 100 CHA if you're killing XP mobs (had a Dwarf Pally who got a lot of use out of it, even). Yes, there are rare situations where a failed calm is likely to get you killed, but as Danth pointed out, why the hell would you want your Cleric pulling in that situation, as your Cleric is also your rezzer? It makes no sense.

Basically, it only makes sense to pump CHA if you only want to solo your Cleric deep inside dungeons and can twink with +WIS gear already, or you intend duo heavily with a non-Enchanter, non-puller class (i.e. Mage or Warrior) and know you will be the primary puller. In other words, 99% of Clerics should not be doing it and are better off pumping WIS at creation.

And so you've proven the point. You aren't even hitting 200 cha despite turning yourself in into a paper bag with a hello kitty sticker on it.

Ideally, you wouldn't have the cleric pull, but you won't always have ideal party compositions for what you are doing, especially when doing things in smaller groups and obviously solo.

And both clerics are going to be buying virtually identical gear. Except to maintain the mana advanatge the +25 wis cleric is going to have to swapping to high plat items like tiara and +mana jewlery -- which is, guess what, really expensive.

[Jimjam]

As a priest go for charisma if you want your sermons to give sway, or wisdom if you’re willing to lose some of the parish but ensure those that do remain to listen actually learn something meaningful.

[Velerin]

Hah I never knew why people are obsessed with total mana. It means nothing for exp groups as it’s all about mana regen. It helps for soloing big mobs or raiding mobs that die fast. You could have 10000 mana but it ain’t gonna help you level faster.

[Vexenu]

And so you've proven the point. You aren't even hitting 200 cha despite turning yourself in into a paper bag with a hello kitty sticker on it.

Ideally, you wouldn't have the cleric pull, but you won't always have ideal party compositions for what you are doing, especially when doing things in smaller groups and obviously solo.

And both clerics are going to be buying virtually identical gear. Except to maintain the mana advanatge the +25 wis cleric is going to have to swapping to high plat items like tiara and +mana jewlery -- which is, guess what, really expensive.

You don't need to wear +100 in CHA gear all the time when pulling (as I said, most calm pulling is done for convenience). But the point is you could if you wanted to and it wouldn't cost you very much. And by pumping WIS at creation you then are able to wear a lot more +HP and +mana items. HP rings instead of +6 WIS rings, Sarnak Battle Shield, BS Platinum necklace, etc... You end up with a lot more HP and mana when you don't need to itemize as much for WIS directly. Much more gearing flexibility. Spending 25 points into CHA is ridiculous when you can wear +100 CHA in items for very cheap on the small number of occasions when a crit calm failure will 100% result in your death. And at the end of the day people roll Clerics to heal groups and raids. CHA does very little for them.

[DMN]

You don't need to wear +100 in CHA gear all the time when pulling (as I said, most calm pulling is done for convenience).

Ya, you need to wear it at the most dangerous time, the same time when you could use all the wis/hp/ac you can if you do get a crit lull. And you shouldn't generalize out ow you play the game to other people either. Pulling 1 mob instead of 3-5 is not a "convenience" in my EQ world 90% of the time. Also, you are going to be losing mana for all these widsom/mana items you unequip to put on cha gear.


But the point is you could if you wanted to and it wouldn't cost you very much. And by pumping WIS at creation you then are able to wear a lot more +HP and +mana items. HP rings instead of +6 WIS rings, Sarnak Battle Shield, BS Platinum necklace, etc... You end up with a lot more HP and mana when you don't need to itemize as much for WIS directly. Much more gearing flexibility. Spending 25 points into CHA is ridiculous when you can wear +100 CHA in items for very cheap on the small number of occasions when a crit calm failure will 100% result in your death. And at the end of the day people roll Clerics to heal groups and raids. CHA does very little for them.

Now this is where you just don't understand itemization in EQ. It's much easier to find big +wis items than it is to find + mana items. And most slots don't even have a good + mana item in classic, but almost every slot has good + wis. If you don't go after the + mana gear you will totally lose your already small mana edge over a cleric who didn't put 25 points in wisdom-- which contradicts the entire argument for starting with +25 wis. So you either believe that mana is that important or you don't, but you don't get to argue out of 2 sides of your mouth. No raid guild or group gives a flying fuck if you put 25 points in wisdom or not. But your group might be pretty thankful they have less downtime, and safer CRs with a cleric who can lull well.