View Full Version : Item Recharging is an exploit
silo32
12-12-2019, 09:39 PM
Prove me wrong?
Items have charges they were never intended to abuse merchants and overlap an item to buy them both back with full charges. This ruins the challenge of the game.
Midnight mallets
Wc Caps
Soul Reaper
Soul Fire
Egg shaped pumice
Golem metal wands
puppet strings
red wood wands
I could go on and on and on
this was an over looked in game exploit
REMOVE IT
Castle2.0
12-12-2019, 10:30 PM
Some people want natural run speed changed to be faster than mobs.
Others say auto-run should be removed entirely.
I'm here strafe running with dwarf barrel roll jumps to avoid certain death to skelies... just as Brad wanted it.
Learn to play.
Furitor
12-12-2019, 10:32 PM
You can recharge Soulfires?
RipVanFish
12-12-2019, 11:18 PM
If the devs were going to remove this they would have done it by now.
Quizlop
12-13-2019, 12:23 AM
It is an exploit, but it's a Classic exploit.
Tilien
12-13-2019, 08:05 AM
It is an exploit, but it's a Classic exploit.
I mean there are examples of parking, line of sight, and wall clipping exploits from live that I believe are all removed from the game.
I think that we can put things into 3 categories:
Exploits: things working differently than intended.
Oversights: original dev's had no intentions on how something should work.
Emergent game play: everything works as intended but there is a novel consequence because of a combination of events.
Troxx
12-13-2019, 10:19 AM
The game would be better if recharging went away. People would be forced to play better/smarter if we didn’t have clicks to cheese aggro, clicks for an instant escape if they did something stupid (WC cap) so readily available. There would be a more robust market for shaman alchemists if there wasn’t the alternative to just recharge your old ones. Classes without innate invis would be more reliant on others to get them from point a to point b.
Classic or not ... exploit or not ... the game would be better and have a much more classic feel.
Allishia
12-13-2019, 10:28 AM
Recharges help remove platinum from game. Helps the economy a lot /nod.
seconds
12-13-2019, 10:38 AM
I disagree. If a subset of people that abuse item recharging monopolize higher end items, you have to farm more plat to meet the prices that they set.
The offset is not that great, there would be more plat in the economy.
Allishia
12-13-2019, 10:52 AM
I like my clickies, strings are so fun to play with too! Y'all crazy trying to get more things nerfed =P
seconds
12-13-2019, 11:10 AM
It's not a matter of getting it nerfed or not but the ramifications to a server that allows item recharging leads it down a path that benefits the few that exploit it, rather than the many that don't.
However, it is very odd to me how the vocal minority here post so feverishly to defend it under the cloak of "classic" or "it was like that on blue". I "wonder" what they are getting out of defending this position of recharging.
Seems very NRA.
Allishia
12-13-2019, 11:27 AM
Well I hope they don't nerf it, I need my root nets to save the encs n rogues. And how would people get over there hammers! Poor sarnak berserkers would be so over camped for braids =P
seconds
12-13-2019, 11:52 AM
People would get their hammers the traditional way, by farming the faction as intended.
What would the person(s) do that are selling hammers via recharging puppet strings morning, noon and night and what are they in turn doing with that platinum.
Allishia
12-13-2019, 11:57 AM
I dont think many sell it anymore? I just do guildys and friends for free. Jygia or something like that only person I remember who sold them like crazy. But haven't seen them in a while. You should get some strings and see how fun they are, I bet you would change mind then. Nothing like charming a fire giant on a war and winning eq =)
Nirgon
12-13-2019, 01:24 PM
no one was doing it pre-velious
Nuggie
12-13-2019, 01:42 PM
Considering nilbog has decided to leave it in for 10 years, I'm willing to bet he isnt going to take it out.
Nirgon
12-13-2019, 03:40 PM
Considering players boxxing characters was more common, I'd hope he'd reconsider.
Sizar
12-13-2019, 04:01 PM
OP how does someone having the ability to recharge their items effect you? It really doesn't imo so just let them have their fun. You do you
Rick Sanchez
12-13-2019, 04:22 PM
Enjoy your free entertainment.
Nirgon
12-13-2019, 05:13 PM
OP how does someone having the ability to recharge their items effect you? It really doesn't imo so just let them have their fun. You do you
defeats the classic experience against raid mobs
Kirrund
12-13-2019, 05:21 PM
It's not a matter of getting it nerfed or not but the ramifications to a server that allows item recharging leads it down a path that benefits the few that exploit it, rather than the many that don't.
However, it is very odd to me how the vocal minority here post so feverishly to defend it under the cloak of "classic" or "it was like that on blue". I "wonder" what they are getting out of defending this position of recharging.
Seems very NRA.
Its actually more like poor and middle class people working their wage slave jobs defending the corporations (from higher taxation) that run their lives and make decisions that affect them in detrimental ways. "Guys we need item recharging cause its classic even though anything worth recharging I cant get cause its so valuable mega guilds have it on controlled lockdown"
Its the 'anyone can be a millionaire' way of thinking
Thomacles
12-13-2019, 05:31 PM
I disagree. I think they intended it from the start. Someone knowingly placed a price for the vendors to charge for the items. That would not have happened had it been an exploit or oversight.
Lhord99
12-13-2019, 05:48 PM
Item recharging causes people to spend platinum.
It also creates an item economy - especially in norrath w/o any expansions.
It keep the platinum moving in an online elf sim that has a very robust in-game economy, which can really make/break the game for many. It's a smart implementation/mechanic to allow recharges to keep the wheels turning.
Jesus, and I'm a socialist - even I know this.
Nuggie
12-13-2019, 05:52 PM
This shmuck and how he brings politics into aspects of life where they don't necessarily belong....
seconds
12-13-2019, 06:42 PM
I'm defending my position that item recharging is adds more plat to the economy than takes out.
Change my mind.
Phaezed-Reality
12-13-2019, 06:50 PM
i could make a case that item recharging does something totally different to the economy making it do a certain thing for certain people. But im not. Cause im to tired and just don't care. Enjoy a very healthy green server.
seconds
12-13-2019, 07:05 PM
Are you suggesting like something like $$$$
Tilien
12-13-2019, 07:06 PM
I disagree. I think they intended it from the start. Someone knowingly placed a price for the vendors to charge for the items. That would not have happened had it been an exploit or oversight.
I think this is a weak argument. The devs could have assumed that WC caps would be bought and sold to vendors for their stats. Or that people would be selling extra charged items and buying them. Or maybe they never really thought a merchant would have 2 of such an item since items should be in the player economy.. and therefore assumed if you found one it would have the charges it had.
Hard to read intentions in a 20 year old game that had bugs and exploits for years that were patched and nerfed.
Perhaps they intended pathing exploits too. Who knows.
Thomacles
12-13-2019, 07:20 PM
Perhaps they intended pathing exploits too. Who knows.
That is actually not far from the truth.
We petitioned one time about buggy pathing in OT years ago. The GM that showed up told us that some MoBs were programmed sometimes to do that, to compensate for AI vs. human player control. It was even posted somewhere on the forums, but you'd have to check the original Verant forums. (If they still exist.)
Tilien
12-13-2019, 07:30 PM
That is actually not far from the truth.
We petitioned one time about buggy pathing in OT years ago. The GM that showed up told us that some MoBs were programmed sometimes to do that, to compensate for AI vs. human player control. It was even posted somewhere on the forums, but you'd have to check the original Verant forums. (If they still exist.)
I'm not sure what pathing issues you're talking about but in classic there were issues where you could force mobs to take the long way around an obstacle while you took a shorter way letting you effectively kite within a room. There was also a few issues where you could get LoS on mobs but they wouldn't have LoS back on you, if I recall. Allowing you to root and cast on them and they couldn't cast back, for example. These were exploits, not simply weird pathing in general.
Thomacles
12-13-2019, 07:36 PM
The pathing was more kinda shortcuts the MoBs could take, that the player could not. It was also "warping" issues. "Working as intended" was the verdict. Go figure.
Tilien
12-13-2019, 07:39 PM
The pathing was more kinda shortcuts the MoBs could take, that the player could not. It was also "warping" issues. "Working as intended" was the verdict. Go figure.
That's not the "exploits" I'm referring to. Here is a more recent post of exploits being discussed to be avoided in EQclassic (assuming the link works):
http://www.eqclassic.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1415
Discussing dead spots for pathing and places players could hit enemies from but not vice versa.
I don't think wall clipping so you can AoE mobs and not be attacked was working as intended on live and doubt a GM would tell you as such.
mycoolrausch
12-13-2019, 08:49 PM
Item recharging allows nerfed warriors to hold aggro against late-velious geared DPS without late-velious aggro weaps (buffed BoC).
Tilien
12-13-2019, 08:53 PM
Item recharging allows nerfed warriors to hold aggro against late-velious geared DPS without late-velious aggro weaps (buffed BoC).
They prefer the term "prebuffed"
Lhord99
12-14-2019, 12:14 PM
This shmuck and how he brings politics into aspects of life where they don't necessarily belong....
Politics is a word that synthesizes the concept of “city” and “citizen” - there are very few places where politics don’t belong. OPs frustration has to do with “citizens” having an assumedly unfair advantage over resources in the “city.” It’s warranted, absolutely, but I posited another viewpoint that disagrees.
I’m giving you a nauseatingly full play-by-play in hopes you don’t miss a key point.
FriskyBard
12-14-2019, 04:11 PM
I agree, item recharging is basically duping. Something that old Verant / SoE used to ban a lot of people for. Using vendors to exploit items in various ways was also a frowned upon offense. EQ isn't the only game where developers felt exactly the same way and banned people for things like that.
There where quite a few exploits in classic and beyond, I've looked for many of them since I got here a few weeks ago and notice some are no longer in the game while others persist. I guess a lot of these have been fixed and packaged in the Titanium client. A lot of things where simply unbalanced and needed to be changed, I believe players knowingly taking advantage of things like this is also considered exploiting, but you guys wouldn't get your classic experience if they fixed all these things beforehand and actually gave you the game that SOE / Verant intended for you to have all along.
If thats the way the developers here want to go about it I am perfectly content with all the things that are in game that are being handled as closely to the old way as they can feasibly manage with limited resources and time constraints. I just got here a few weeks ago and I'm pretty impressed so far. Its been pretty fun.
Phatez
12-14-2019, 04:27 PM
If the staff considered item recharging to be an exploit then they would have removed it from the game on blue/green/teal. They are well aware of its existence and choose not to change it, therefore it is not an exploit.
FriskyBard
12-14-2019, 04:48 PM
Oh its still an exploit, there is no doubt about that, but letting certain things slide, sure, I get it.
Nuggie
12-14-2019, 05:31 PM
Politics is a word that synthesizes the concept of “city” and “citizen” - there are very few places where politics don’t belong. OPs frustration has to do with “citizens” having an assumedly unfair advantage over resources in the “city.” It’s warranted, absolutely, but I posited another viewpoint that disagrees.
I’m giving you a nauseatingly full play-by-play in hopes you don’t miss a key point.
I was talking about the dipshit that said this:
Its actually more like poor and middle class people working their wage slave jobs defending the corporations (from higher taxation) that run their lives and make decisions that affect them in detrimental ways. "Guys we need item recharging cause its classic even though anything worth recharging I cant get cause its so valuable mega guilds have it on controlled lockdown"
Its the 'anyone can be a millionaire' way of thinking
Lhord99
12-15-2019, 01:20 PM
I was talking about the dipshit that said this:
I redact my asshole snark. My apologies :)
Izmael
12-15-2019, 01:44 PM
- FD splitting is an exploit
- CH rotation is an exploit
- Rampage tanking is an exploit
- DoT kiting is an exploit
- Fear kiting is an exploit
can go on
douglas1999
12-15-2019, 02:22 PM
Lots of stuff is an exploit, therefor let's just never fix exploits! I mean, since we can't do everything, let's do nothing!
Item recharging is such an obviously gigantic exploit it sort of makes things like fear kiting pale into insignificance. Fuckin remove it already and we can see who is actually good at killing raid mobs.
Also lol at the ultimate telltale signs of somebody clinging to an exploit being left alone: Talking about how this is merely an "elf sim" and eyyyyy, cmonnn, it's 20 years old, so who cares ya know? Fuhhhgetaboutit!!!
gundumbwing
12-15-2019, 02:23 PM
- FD splitting is an exploit
- CH rotation is an exploit
- Rampage tanking is an exploit
- DoT kiting is an exploit
- Fear kiting is an exploit
can go on
How many of these were later nerfed to be unusable because it was an unintended mechanic?
Sonark
12-15-2019, 02:28 PM
Its actually more like poor and middle class people working their wage slave jobs defending the corporations (from higher taxation) that run their lives and make decisions that affect them in detrimental ways. "Guys we need item recharging cause its classic even though anything worth recharging I cant get cause its so valuable mega guilds have it on controlled lockdown"
Its the 'anyone can be a millionaire' way of thinkingYou make sense.
Izmael
12-15-2019, 02:41 PM
Rechargeable clickies add "content" to a content-starved server such as Blue.
Can certainly disable recharging on Green/Teal, as I advocated before.
Frostback
12-15-2019, 02:53 PM
I don't believe the ability for any vendor to recharge items was intended considering they had quests put in place for npc's to recharge specific items.
Whysia Flock will indeed "recharge" your Shining star of life(not light like the items called) for 20 gold(or 2 plat or 200 silver or 2000 copper), how ever this does nothing but play the quest complete sound. If I had to guess the recharge part and the npcs calling the item a different name might be things from EQ beta that never got changed when EQ went live. Here the text from my log.
You say, 'Hail, Whysia Flock'
Whysia Flock says 'Good evening, <your name here>. Feel free to take your time browsing. The temple shop is open night and day for your convenience. Most clerics need access to their [scroll strongbox] at all times.'
You say, 'Recharge the Shining star of life' -Note saying recharge shining star is enough to prompt a response
Whysia Flock says 'Are you interested in recharging your Shining Star of Life? I can do it for you, but I require the Shining Star of Life and 20 gold.'
Whysia Flock says 'Here you are, then. May the power of the Prime Healer guide you through life and keep you healthy.'
I wonder how complicated it would be to make changes so that vendors can distinguish between fully charged items and empty ones.
azeth
12-15-2019, 02:57 PM
- FD splitting is an exploit
- CH rotation is an exploit
- Rampage tanking is an exploit
- DoT kiting is an exploit
- Fear kiting is an exploit
can go on
Absolutely none of these examples are analogous to recharging through merchants
Valeriya
12-16-2019, 12:02 AM
Shut up and quit crying sorry you suck at p99....... The GM already made lists to hold you're hands
Naonak
12-16-2019, 12:26 AM
Classic
Valeriya
12-16-2019, 12:27 AM
Classic
Nothing about p99 is classic
Naonak
12-16-2019, 12:29 AM
Nothing about p99 is classic
It's custom classic, as intended by Devs?
Kalamurv
12-16-2019, 05:20 AM
ah someone beat me to FD being an exploit haha.
FD was originally designed to be a way for monks to lower their agro in groups (flop the agro)...like rogues evade. Being able to split mobs wasn't intended but once it caught on to the point everyone was doing it, they started tuning the game around this unintended effect.
Izmael
12-16-2019, 07:11 AM
Absolutely none of these examples are analogous to recharging through merchants
Every single one of these examples is analogous to recharging through merchants. The analogy is:
they are all unintended, advantage-giving, game mechanics discovered by the players, that were ultimately left in the game by the devs.
Tilien
12-16-2019, 10:46 AM
Every single one of these examples is analogous to recharging through merchants. The analogy is:
they are all unintended, advantage-giving, game mechanics discovered by the players, that were ultimately left in the game by the devs.
Sure, except recharging was removed in Luclin under the guise of an interface update, not a mechanic update, meaning it was:
A) Unintended.
B) Removed when the devs got wind of it on live.
C) Not emergent from mechanics working as intended, but rather from interface limitations.
All your examples were:
A) Unintended
B) Not removed (or at least not that I could see) for at least years after Luclin
C) Emergent from multiple mechanics, each working as intended individually.
this user was banned
12-16-2019, 11:21 AM
Removing item recharging is on par with banning multiboxing. Prove me wrong.
Ligma
12-16-2019, 12:57 PM
Sure, except recharging was removed in Luclin under the guise of an interface update, not a mechanic update, meaning it was:
A) Unintended.
B) Removed when the devs got wind of it on live.
C) Not emergent from mechanics working as intended, but rather from interface limitations.
All your examples were:
A) Unintended
B) Not removed (or at least not that I could see) for at least years after Luclin
C) Emergent from multiple mechanics, each working as intended individually.
They jacked up the prices on the items commonly abused at that time. Years later it was removed altogether but was effectively nerfed in luclin because of rez staffs and fungusbeast glands
Khorza
12-16-2019, 01:09 PM
I disagree. I think they intended it from the start. Someone knowingly placed a price for the vendors to charge for the items. That would not have happened had it been an exploit or oversight.
This is one of the worst arguments I've ever seen attempted by someone on the internet.
Most items in the game have vendor sale prices regardless of whether the item can has charges or not, including things like Flowing Black Silk Sash and Short Sword of the Ykesha.
So no, the developers didn't implement vendor sale prices just because the item recharge exploit was somehow intended. That's ridiculous and easily proven false.
If item recharging was intentional then it would have been an actual system in the game. For example, maybe they could have made a container and called it something like Box of the Void (http://wiki.project1999.com/Box_of_the_Void), and then allowed players to combine items inside of it along with, I don't know, maybe something called a Mana Battery (http://wiki.project1999.com/Mana_Battery_-_Class_Five) and then that would recharge the item.
Oh yeah those are items that exist in the game, so I guess if that doesn't recharge your item then that item wasn't meant to be recharged.
That's just the straight facts. But then the question is whether the recharging exploit adds enough value to the game to warrant keeping it, and that can surely be debated. But ultimately the developers get to decide, and they've decided that for now that recharging is good for the game. There are plenty of exploits that they decided weren't good for the game and removed, such as warping across WK and pathing exploits in HHK/Steamfont/HS.
swoligarch
12-16-2019, 03:00 PM
I'm not sure what pathing issues you're talking about but in classic there were issues where you could force mobs to take the long way around an obstacle while you took a shorter way letting you effectively kite within a room. There was also a few issues where you could get LoS on mobs but they wouldn't have LoS back on you, if I recall. Allowing you to root and cast on them and they couldn't cast back, for example. These were exploits, not simply weird pathing in general.
i remember doing this in unrest right next to where entrance tunnel opens up to the fountains. You could like kite beetles and stuff right next to the doorway and they would run back and forth in a little triangle while you just strafe left and right along the wall.
silo32
12-18-2019, 03:52 PM
soulfire hilt dropped in mm last night, do i have as much of a right to roll on the soulfire as he does now that anyone can use it from inventory?
last night i payed a cleric 132 plat for a 90% rez
it costs 168 plat to recharge a wc cap... the time it took me to get a port for the cleric, sit around naked, msg a bunch of people, finally get the rez it was 2 hours later
could have just capped and charged an extra 38 plat to my account for 2 hours of time 12 plat per hour.
I should abuse this like everyone else is... can't beat em join em?
Still a cheating exploit recharging items.
Moving this thread to rants and flames
Resolved
liquidki
12-19-2019, 04:14 AM
I agree, item recharging is basically duping.
I think that calling it duping instead of "recharging" is a lot more accurate, and damning.
I think that if the EQ devs intended for items to be recharged, they'd have introduced a recharge mechanic or officially sanctioned the duplicating of charged items via vendor.
Deliverator
12-19-2019, 09:30 PM
Or we can all stop crying about a settled issue. The developers of P99 have decided to keep this mechanic in game. You don't like it? Move to another server where the developers are willing to listen to your complaint regarding item recharging.
Castle2.0
12-19-2019, 09:44 PM
I think that if the EQ devs intended for items to be recharged, they'd have introduced a recharge mechanic or officially sanctioned the duplicating of charged items...
Ya, EQ never had combining a tinkered item with 0 charges with a vendor-bought mana battery in a toolbox to recharge it. Using pure platinum to buy a recharge from a vendor would NEVER exist in EQ!
"Oh wait, what's this!?"....
/thread
bradsamma
12-20-2019, 06:04 AM
Considering players boxxing characters was more common, I'd hope he'd reconsider.
Yup, i boxed back in the day with my two PC's. Totally classic.
Frostback
12-20-2019, 01:21 PM
I think that if the EQ devs intended for items to be recharged, they'd have introduced a recharge mechanic
Recharge Prayer Beads (https://wiki.project1999.com/Recharge_Prayer_Beads)
There are tons of quests like this that have been implemented throughout the life of everquest. In POP you can recharge your mystic cloak. Recharging items without a quest or mana battery feels like an exploit. Lore wise it does't really fit, how can any random vendor have the magical ability to recharge powerful items?
supermonk
12-22-2019, 07:55 AM
really hope there aren't any broken red wood wands with like 100 charges on green like there was on blue for a long time
Ashenden
12-26-2019, 01:09 AM
Remove recharging. Let people farm braids like men.
Soulfire should be Can Equip. Nerf Soulfire, buff Paladins.
Reaper should be Can Equip. Nerf Reaper, butt Shadow Knights.
Mallet should be Can Equip. Nerf aggro clickies, make people call assist.
Make EQ a better place. Make EQ a harder place.
Thanks for listening, childrunn.
Ashenden
12-26-2019, 01:10 AM
ha, butt Shadow Knights. stupid RNF no edits.
Hazek
12-26-2019, 09:30 AM
Butt paladins
Wallicker
12-26-2019, 10:28 AM
Butt knights disease cloud is a fart proc. That generates more aggro when enemy is down wind.
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