Classic ZEM values, and special ZEM for levels 1-6

[Dolalin]

From this post by a Show EQ dev on the Hackersquest boards:


Originally posted by casey on 05-22-2001 11:14 AM

Experience questions answered

Here are some basic constants

Class modifiers

War, Rog: .9 for level calculations, 1.0 for experience awards
wis casters: 1.0
int casters: 1.1
monks: 1.2
hybrids(sk,pal,rng,brd): 1.4

Race modifiers

Halfling: 95
Hum, eru, elf, def, hie, halfelf, dwf, gnm: 100
barb: 105
ogre: 115
troll, iks: 120

Hell modifiers:

lvl 1-29 : 10
lvl 30-34: 11
lvl 35-39: 12
lvl 40-44: 13
lvl 45-50: 14
lvl 51: 15
lvl 52: 16
lvl 53: 17
lvl 54: 19
lvl 55: 21
lvl 56: 23
lvl 57: 25
lvl 58: 27
lvl 59-60: 30

Group bonuses

solo: 1
2 man: 1.02
3 man: 1.06
4 man: 1.1
5 man : 1.14
full : 1.2

Group dist

your level / (all group members levels summated (inclding yours))


ZEM (Zone experience multiplier)

most outdoor zones: 75
most dungeons: 80
some kunark/velious dungeons: 85
underused zones (kedge, hole): 100
regardless of zone, lvl 1-6 you get a ZEM of 100


Formula:

exp needed to level (lifetime):

(lvl to attain^3)*Class mod*race mod*hell mod


exp needed in a given level:

(lifetime exp to level x) - (lifetime exp to level x-1)


exp given by a mob:

(mob lvl^2)*Class mod*ZEM*group bonus*group dist


pets:

If any single pet can do > 51% damage to a mob, he will get half experience. This will rarely happen in a group unless you are using some badass charmed pets. It *does not* matter who gets the final blow or anything else you hear, its just tied to whether or not a pet does more than half damage. I've not tested this in a group setting so i do not know whether he takes half of total exp, or just half of his owners exp.


examples:

lvl 30 DE SK needs 41,580,000 exp lvl 1-30.
((30^3)*1.4*100*11)


from lvl 29-30 dor DE SK you need: 7,433,400 exp
((30^3)*1.4*100*11)-((29^3)*1.4*100*10)


a DE SK killing a lvl 28 mob solo outdoors gets 82,320 exp
((28^2)*1.4*75*1*1)

a lvl 31 DE SK in a group of lvls 29, 30, 38 killing a lvl 35 mob in a dungeon will get 36550 exp
((35^2)*1.4*80*1.1*.242) .242 = 31/(31+29+30+38)


from here you can extrapolate many quantites (kills to level, time per kill, time to level). If you take exp to level for lvl 1-2, 2-3....59-60, you will also see why hell levels exist, just a mathematical effect of the way they chose to manage these equations.

any other questions?



http://web.archive.org/web/20030527223707/http://www.ethernalquest.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=HackersQuest+Main+Forum&number=1&topic=002742.cgi&ReplyNum=000002&TopicSubject=How+experience+works

Obviously us non-devs can't see the real ZEM values on p99, but unless there's other proof out there for specific zones, it doesn't seem like there should be any ZEM higher than 100.

Also, there seems to have been a ZEM of 100 for levels 1-6 no matter your zone. Not sure this is active here either.

[Man0warr]

Didn't the current ZEM values come from a leaked database dump from Al'kabor before it shut down?

[Dolalin]

No idea, but those wouldn't have been classic anyways. ZEMs were tinkered with a lot between Velious and LDoN.

[Videri]

Wow!! Amazing info. What a find. /salute

[Veeshan31]

Fix green 2019. Nerf the ridiculous ZEM zones

[Dolalin]

I did a newsgroup search just for kicks and I found posts by that same Casey ShowEQ dev guy on the subject of ZEM.

He confirms that no ZEM in classic was ever higher than 100.

So basically if there are any ZEMs higher than 100 on P99, they're wrong. And only a few zones were 100.


Casey Webster
3/12/02

considering i wrote the curernt exp split calculations in showeq, i'd be
happy
to share
group split is performed in the following fashion. First, determine the
number
of people in your group, and apply the following exp bonus.

solo, no bonus
2 people, 2% bonus
3 people, 6% bonus
4 people, 10% bonus
5 people, 14% bonus
6 people, 20% bonus

ok, now take the exp a mob gives, which is equal to (mob lvl)^2 * ZEM
in this case, ZEM is 75 for most outdoor zones, 80 for some dungeons, 85
for some others, and it maxes out at 100 for underused zones and some
especially difficult ones.

take this experience, and apply the proper bonus. This is the exp that will
be
split amongst the group. Now we determine how it will be split.

For this, look at each group members level, and add 5 to everyones level
(your included), and now add it all up. Call this aggregate_level. Now
take
just your level, add 5 and divide it by aggregate_level. This is your group
split. Figure this for each group member, and multiply it by mob exp, and
this
is what each member gets. Note that class plays absolutely no part in the
split.

Now, remember back to when VI said they took out class penatlies. They
didnt really, they just negated the effect (so they are in effect not
there). The
way they accomplished this, is after your split of the exp is assigned to
you,
it is multiplied by your classes particular class exp modifier (what makes
you need more exp to level). For the purpose of exp rewards, here are
the class modifiers

Wis casters (DRU, SHM, CLR), warrior, rogue - 1.0
Int casters(NEC, WIZ, MAG, ENC) - 1.1
Monk - 1.2
Hybrid (BST, SK, PAL, RNG, BRD) - 1.4

Now, the value you get after multiplying your split by this class mod, is
the experience that goes into your exp pool. Again, for emphasis, at
first glance, it appears that an SK gets more exp than a druid, but what
you need to look at is Experience reward / Experience to level. If the
SK and druid are the same level, the % of the level they gain per kill
will be equal, even though thier raw numbers are not. This is the effect
of negating class penalties.

Now, since that is a lot of info to take in at once, lets have a
demonstration

Group of 5,

44 SK
46 druid
43 warrior
48 rogue
45 pally

they kill a lvl 50 mob in a dungeon (the ZEM 80 variety)
the mob gives 50*50*80 experience, or 200,000 exp.
They have a 5 person group, so 200,000 + 14% is 228,000 exp.

Now for the split, calculate group aggregate level (everyones levels + 5)
(44+5)+(46+5)+(43+5)+(48+5)+(45+5) =
49 + 51 + 48 + 53 + 50 = 251.

Now we calculate the individual splits
SK: (44+5)/251 = 49/251
druid: (46+5)/251 = 51/251
warrior: (43+5)/251 = 48/251
rogue: (48+5)251 = 53/251
pally: (45+5)251 = 50/251

now, multiply this split value by the exp reward to get the xp per person

SK: 44509 exp
druid: 46326 exp
warrior: 43601 exp
rogue: 48143 exp
pally: 45418 exp

notice that the split is purely a function of level, not class.

now we adjust the reward per class to compensate for the innate differences
in levelling requirements.

SK: 44509 * 1.4 = 62312 exp
druid: 46326 * 1.0 = 46326 exp
warrior: 43601 * 1.0 = 43601 exp
rogue: 48143 * 1.0 = 48143 exp
pally 45418 * 1.4 = 63585 exp

these are the rewards applied to your experience pool for the kill.

There will be some degree of error here from rounding and not using the
exact numbers VI uses (they are floating point numbers for class/race
mod, whereas i am using simple integers). But in the wide scope of how
much exp you need at these levels, a couple points doesnt really mean
much. I'll save calculating experience needed to level for another day.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/yE7Bl9k91zI/7h7DhR63ZmwJ



Casey Webster
3/13/02

>
> > ok, now take the exp a mob gives, which is equal to (mob lvl)^2 * ZEM
> > in this case, ZEM is 75 for most outdoor zones, 80 for some dungeons, 85
> > for some others, and it maxes out at 100 for underused zones and some
> > especially difficult ones.
>
> I assume when the big "upping underused zone" XP bonus patch was done
> that some ZEMs changed. Did any get over 100, that you recall?

some zems reached 100 as a result of the patch (the hole is an example), but
no zones exceeded it. The only zone at 100 before that patch was Kedge
i believe.

>
> > For this, look at each group members level, and add 5 to everyones level
> > (your included), and now add it all up.
>
> Is this also the case at low level? I've been a level one character
> grouped with a level 2 character and the split of XP I got was quite small
> compared with what I should expect from this, and much closer to the 1/3rd
> I'd expect if it were straight levels. (Low level was easiest, I could
> visually assess the impact of grouping.)
>

The numbers are a bit screwey at low level. At lvl 6 and under, a "newbie"
zem of 100 is applied to kills regardless of zone. The split with a lvl 2
and 1
should be 7/13 and 6/13. The other factors that may contribute to this are
the exp cap.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/yE7Bl9k91zI/m9N5Q__WctAJ


Also confirms the newbie ZEM.

The XP bonus patch referred to is this one in January 2001:


As of the next patch, you will receive additional experience (per kill) in the following zones:

Droga increased by 12%
Nurga increased by 12%
Solusek's Eye (SolA) increased by 13%
Najena increased by 13%
Befallen increased by 13%
Paw increased by 13%
Permafrost increased by 13%
Kaesora increased by 18%
Qeynos Catacombs increased by 20%
Runnyeye increased by 20%
Kerra Ridge increased by 20%
The Hole increased by 25%

https://wiki.project1999.com/Patch_Notes#Zone_Experience


No zone was above 100.

Lotsssssssss of ZEMs on P99 need looking at I think. Plus era rules applied for ZEMs as changed in the above patch.

[Dolalin]

For the Hole, we can see it had a ZEM of 80 before the patch because 100 - 25% = 80. That's the standard old world dungeon ZEM.

A lot of these are pretty easy to guess and calculate.

[tinklepee]

Just imagine the outcry if the double exp zones are nerfed lol

[Dolalin]

Here is another thread from Casey on the ShowEQ forums that states ZEM maxes out at 100. This post from January 2002 and confirms he was a dev.


ZEM = zone modifier, 75 is low (standard), goes up to 100


http://www.showeq.net/forums/showthread.php?295-Mob-kill-experience&p=1513#post1513

[DMN]

I only remember kedge giving quite a massive exp boost back in the day and I'm not sure if they didn't even change that after it was itemized. Somewhere around 40-50% exp boost from outdoor, non dungeon mob.

Dungeons all gave a small but significant boost relative to outdoors, like 25% or so.

Dungeons that were considered outdoors gave slightly less boost, like 15%.

[Dolalin]

Another post from ShowEQ.net shedding some light on what I think happened with these ZEMs between 2001 and 2003 when the more widely-circulated ShowEQ ZEM list was compiled:


03-07-2002, 09:21 PM
Cryonic

I could have sworn the xp gained from a mob had nothing to do with your level except if you were < level 6.

Exp gained from mob:
Level * level * ZEM * Class

Exp needed to level

(Level^3 - (Level -1)^3)*Race*Class*LMOD

Class is now in both equations for all classes but Rogues and Warriors because VI took out the class penalties by multiplying the exp gained by your class penalty. Warriors and Rogues still benefit from having a Class mod of .9 (vs. the Equivalent of 1 for all other classes).

LMOD is as follows:

Level < 30: 1
Level < 35: 1.1
Level < 40: 1.2
Level < 45: 1.3
Level < 51: 1.4
Level < 52: 1.5
Level < 53: 1.6
Level < 54: 1.7
Level < 55: 1.9
Level < 56: 2.0
Level < 57: 2.1
Level < 58: 2.2
Level < 59: 2.3
Level < 60: 2.4

ZEM varies based on zone, but in general:
75 Outdoors
85 Indoors
100 Dungeons

Then VI Revamed some of the unused dungeons giving them a ZEM as high as 125 (KerraRidge).

Your level only affects the fact that the MOST EXP you can gain from any ONE mob or quest is 12% of your TOTAL level.

http://www.showeq.net/forums/showthread.php?636-Zone-XP-Modifiers&p=3401&viewfull=1#post3401


Another confirmation of the special level 1-6 newbie ZEM btw.

[Dolalin]

Some older newsgroup posts from the 2000's. This one is pretty good because it references Najena, which later on seemed to have a ZEM of 130 (2003 data) but here is given as 80 (standard non-Kunark dungeon zone ZEM). Additionally there is a mention by the previous poster that ZEMs varied between 75 and 105:


5/4/00

> the formula for mob experience is (level^2)*multiplier. The multiplier for
> nearly all outdoor mobs is 75. The multiplier for dungeon mobs varies between
> 75 and 105. Usually this multiplier is constant within a zone, but in some
> cases (casters vs non-casters in mistmoore) it varies.

The highest modifier I had heard of being proven was 80 (Ogre guards in
Najena). But anything is possible.
I'd like to see what the modifier in some of the Kunark dungeons is as
many of the MoBs there are tougher for their level and the Iksar have an
XP penalty. Wonder if they offset themselves.
Ahh well. That's a question for one of the "other" boards. Didn't mean to
get into it here.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/2asT1nJbYV8/R5v40v5fwBkJ


ShowEQ data was very raw at this time and people were still digesting it and figuring things like ZEM out, so I would view Casey's posts as more authoritative where there's disagreement.

[Dolalin]

I just found a ShowEQ experience guide from mid-2000.


Disclaimer: I did not write this and it has been passed around and posted on many sites. I have, as well as friends have, tested it to the best of our ability and it is close if not accurate. Biggest issue I have is the base *75 for outdoor zones. It is obvious and well known by many that certain places you just get more experience.

...

1. The exp given by every mob in the game = (mob level) * (mob level) * X.

There are four major catagories of mobs, 'newbie' (levels 1-4), 'low' (level 5-6), 'outdoor' (level 7+), and 'dungeon' (any level). The category determines the X value, which are as follows:

Outdoor: 75
Dungeon: 80
Low: 100
Newbie: Varies by zone. Anywhere from 103 to 114 have been recorded.

Therefore, every mob gives a fixed amount of exp, assuming it is in normal exp ranges (blue to red). Starting in the low-mid levels, mobs that are one level green give 50% of the exp that they should. Once into the mid levels, mobs that are two levels green start giving 25% of the exp they would if they were blue or higher.

http://web.archive.org/web/20001031154254/http://eqguide.com/articles/showeq.html


A little muddy but it adds something.

[Dolalin]

Here we go. Some hard numbers from the newsgroups on ZEMs from 2001.

These numbers are taken from http://eqzem.cjb.net/ which I see referenced everywhere in this time period but which wasn't archived properly on web.archive.org.


5/12/01

"Elliot Williams" <su...@look.ca> wrote in message
news:L6%K6.69610$2_.24009934@news3.rdc1.on.home.co m...
> All the zones you mention above are newbie zones, and they all have
> higher modifiers than any wilderness zone. They also used to be higher
> than any dungeon zone, though that did change with the exp bonuses
> added a few months back. Even so, most newbie zones are still higher
> than most dungeons. Also, all newbie zones do not have the same
> modifiers.

It looks like the newbie zone modifiers went away, perhaps with the
experience system changes back in January. After more digging, I found out
that the base ZEM used in ShowEQ is 75, and the numbers listed on the page
at http://eqzem.cjb.net/ are added to that 75 base. The "newbie" zones in
Freeport, GFay, and Nek Forest all are shown with a 0% bonus. Prior to being
nerfed, LOIO had a 33% bonus, resulting in a ZEM of 100. There were a few
posts on Hackersquest about the easy experience in LOIO being removed.

> However, if you run an experiment, kill several even cons in Gfay and the
> same number in Crushbone, you will get more exp for the Gfay kills.

This is incorrect. GFay has a 75 ZEM, and Crushbone 80 ZEM. But, frankly,
can we really see the difference that 6.66% makes in our levelling? I doubt
it. On the other hand, I think that getting 33% more experience in LOIO
would have been noticeable.

I'm not trying to be the great arguer of ZEM's and whatnot. But, it seems
like many things about EQ are stated as "fact" over and over again when they
are not. Or, the information is out-dated. Heck, this may have all been
changed in the last patch, and only those people running ShowEQ (not me)
would know about it.

Anita

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/vz5xtxsszjk/XC7BxNSmL7EJ


Crushbone having a ZEM of 80 flies in the face of its current ZEM on P99 based on the 2002/2003 numbers, which is 160.

I believe these ZEMs were mucked around with sometime in Luclin, because Paludal Caverns is the only other zone with a 160 ZEM and it would fit the mold.

(Also, on the subject of ZEM for LOIO since it's in that post: at Kunark release, it seems all the Iksar newbie zones had a ZEM of 100, which was nerfed down to 75 a bit later. Then LOIO was reduced even further because it was overcrowded. ref: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/4_sRNfJSNHE/rL8k_44W2V0J )

[loramin]

This is all amazing, and you're amazing Dolalin, but ... I wouldn't get your hopes too high.

Nilbog's a bigger EQEmu geek than any of us, so I think the odds are very high he already knew about this. He for certain knew about the old EQEmu ZEMs, and very deliberately made them unclassic here.

So while I would "vote" for this to be fixed with every fiber of my being (because playing here for half a decade has indoctrinated me into the "cult of classic", and this would make Green/Teal so much more classic) ... just be aware that there's a very good chance that Niblog has known about (but purposefully ignored) this data, and won't stop now after keeping unclassic (but sort-of kind-of classically mysterious) ZEMs on P99 for so long.

Again, I truly hope I'm wrong, but I'm just trying to brace you for the possibility that all this incredible research may not pay off.

[Dolalin]

More on how these ZEMs got changed:


8/1/03

"Steve" <iams...@internode.on.net> wrote in
news:3...@duster.adelaide.on.net:
> That's some interesting info in that drop down. Crushbone and Befallen
> have the same zem as PC and Kurns is only 10 less too. Could probably
> do well going newb zone > kurns/CB > PC. Kurns is such an easy zone
> too with the tiny agro range of the mobs. Wonder what Sony bases the
> ZEM on? Zone difficulty is definately not the answer
>

Well, pre-PoP, in general Dungeons got bigger ZEM's than
open zones. There was a point a while back (the exact
timing escapes me) when SOE made a big push to get people
under 30 into dungeons. This was when they expanded the
cleric rezzes down to 14, and gave Paladins earlier rezzes.
They also introduced low level evacs and summon corpse.
Finally, they boosted the ZEM on under 30 dungeons (CB and
Befallen come in this category apparently). I think there
are 3 reasons PC sees so much traffic and the others don't:
First, location; PC is simply the easiest of the zones to
get to, considering you can bind 10 seconds away. Second
is word of mouth. Early on in SoL PC was near abandoned,
I leveled my kitty BL in there without anyone sharing the
zone with me for large blocks of time, then the word got
out about the xp there, and it became flooded. Last is
the fast spawn timer in PC. It's so fast that just 5 or
6 shiknar spawn was enough to keep a cleric I was PL'ing
fighting constantly. I want to say 7minutes on those.

--
Mairelon Snapbang, Arch Convoker of Lanys T'vyl

http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=701866


https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/chFvv9xp5RE/p5tiHw7mCigJ


11/9/03

"Vladesch" <do...@spam.me> wrote in message
news:PIkrb.3354$aT.3083@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

>
> Im surprised with some of these values. Airplane, fearplane and hateplane
> seem a bit low at 75. Air and hate still need a wizzy to get you there,
and
> fear IS hard for the average mob level.
> Most of the cities have a decent modifier. Kaladim particularly high. (who
> hunts in kaladim?)
> TheGrey at 65? Hello? Shouldnt that make it at least a little higher than
> the average zone?

No. The mobs there are actally very easy. It was the first place AE
killing made it's reappearance during luclin.

> Veeshan 75? hmm its a hard zone to get to, and its a bad zone to wipe in.
> Should be at least 100.
Generally not an experience zone. It was added to be a raid zone.


> Crushbone 160? I dont see any justification to this.
> Guktop 150. I dont see that its all that hard. OK so dungeons are harder,
> but I see plenty of dungeons with much less than 150.

They were to solve a problem. Newbies were not going to dungeons, they
were all leveling up single pulling in Lake of Ill Omen. So Verant tried
to make dungeons more newbie friendly. They revamped the rezes so clerics
got them much earlier, added low level summon corpse and low level
evacuates, and last but not least, gave everything considered a "newbie
dungeon"... Crushbone, Blackburrow, Upper Guk, Kurn's Tower, Paudal Caverns,
etc... an absurdly high experience modifier.


--
Dearic - Level 65 Overlord on E'ci
Talynne - Level 61 Assassin on E'ci



https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/o2AinXHJnbw/6ZjsZK7KqQsJ


11/9/03

"Vladesch" <do...@spam.me> wrote in
news:PIkrb.3354$aT....@news-server.bigpond.net.au:
- show quoted text -

under 30 dungeons all got an extraodinary boost when they put inthe
low level rezes, succors and summon corpse spell. It was part of their
attemp to encourage people to leave the safe old outdoor grind.


--
Arch Convoker Mairelon Snapbang of Lanys T'vyl

http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=701866



https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/o2AinXHJnbw/H06-gQgRM0QJ

[Dolalin]

This is all amazing, and you're amazing Dolalin, but ... I wouldn't get your hopes too high.

Nilbog's a bigger EQEmu geek than any of us, so I think the odds are very high he already knew about this. He for certain knew about the old EQEmu ZEMs, and very deliberately made them unclassic here.

So while I would "vote" for this to be fixed with every fiber of my being (because playing here for half a decade has indoctrinated me into the "cult of classic", and this would make Green/Teal so much more classic) ... just be aware that there's a very good chance that Niblog has known about (but purposefully ignored) this data, and won't stop now after keeping unclassic (but sort-of kind-of classically mysterious) ZEMs on P99 for so long.

Again, I truly hope I'm wrong, but I'm just trying to brace you for the possibility that all this incredible research may not pay off.

Devs can do what they like with my info, I just enjoy finding out the truth. We're playing with PoP ZEMs and shit ain't classic. :D

[loramin]

Devs can do what they like with my info, I just enjoy finding out the truth. We're playing with PoP ZEMs and shit ain't classic. :D

Amen! I just wanted to warn you since you're doing so much work, but please keep fighting the good fight!

[Dolalin]

Preliminary ZEM list as I figure it should be given what Classic values I have seen here. Very open to suggestions.

These numbers are on the basis that:

- City = 100
- Outdoor = 75
- Vanilla dungeon = 80
- Kedge keep = 100 (special case)
- Kunark / Velious dungeon = 85
- Skyfire = 80 (special case)

Also, some zones were boosted in Jan 2001:


Droga increased by 12%
Nurga increased by 12%
Solusek's Eye (SolA) increased by 13%
Najena increased by 13%
Befallen increased by 13%
Paw increased by 13%
Permafrost increased by 13%
Kaesora increased by 18%
Qeynos Catacombs increased by 20%
Runnyeye increased by 20%
Kerra Ridge increased by 20%
The Hole increased by 25%

While not mentioned in the Producer's Letter, the Zone Experience Modifier has also been increased in Guk (guktop), by roughly 12%.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-288909.html


LOIO was a special case. It started out at 100 at Kunark release, then nerfed to 75 in Feb 2001, then was further nerfed to 60 later on (evidence linked further back in this thread).



ANTONICA

Befallen 80 until January 2001, then 90
Blackburrow 80
East Commons 75
East Freeport 75
East Karana 75
Erud's Crossing 75
Everfrost 75
Feerrott 75
Gorge of King Xorbb 75
Halas 100
High Keep 80
Highpass Hold 80
Innothule Swamp 75
Kithikor Woods 75
Lake Rathe 75
Lavastorm Mountains 75
Lower Guk 80
Misty Thicket 75
Nagafen's Lair 80
Najena 80 until January 2001, then 90
Nektulos 75
Neriak- Commons 100
Neriak- Foreign Quarter 100
Neriak- Third Gate 100
North Freeport 100
North Karana 75
North Qeynos 100
North Ro 75
Oasis of Marr 75
Ocean of Tears 75
Oggok 100
Permafrost 80 until January 2001, then 90
Qeynos Hills 75
Qeynos Catacombs 80 until January 2001, then 95
Rathe Mountains 75
Rivervale 100
Runnyeye 80 until January 2001, then 95
Solusek's Eye 80 until January 2001, then 90
South Karana 75
South Ro 75
Splitpaw Lair 80 until January 2001, then 90
Surefall Glade 100
Temple of Cazic Thule 80
Upper Guk 80 until January 2001, then 90
West Commonlands 75
West Freeport 75
West Karana 75


FAYDWER

Ak'Anon 100
Butcherblock Mountains 75
Castle Mistmoore 80
Crushbone 80
Dagnor's Cauldron 75
Felwithe 100
Greater Faydark 75
Kaladim 100
Kedge Keep 100
Steamfont Mountains 75
Lesser Faydark 75
Ocean of Tears 75
Unrest 80


ODUS

Erudin 100
Erud's Crossing 75
The Hole 80 until Jan 2001, then 100
Kerra Isle 80 until Jan 2001, then 95
Paineel 75
Stonebrunt Mountains 75
Toxxulia Forest 75
Warrens 80


KUNARK

Burning Woods 75
Cabilis 100
Charasis 85
Chardok 85
City of Mist 85
Dalnir 85
Dreadlands 75
Emerald Jungle 75
Field of Bone 75
Fironia Vie 75
Frontier Mountains 75
Kaesora 85 until January 2001, then 100
Karnor's Castle 85
Kurn's Tower 85
Lake of Ill Omen 100 until Feb 2001, then 75, then 60 (when?)
The Mines of Nurga 85 until January 2001, then 95
Sebilis 85
Skyfire Mountains 80 (classic evidence for +5 here)
Swamp of No Hope 75
The Overthere 75
Timourous Deep 75
Temple of Droga 85 until January 2001, then 95
Trakanon's Teeth 75
Veeshan's Peak 75
Warsliks Woods 75


VELIOUS

Cobalt Scar 75
Crystal Caverns 85
Dragon Necropolis 85
Eastern Wastes 75
Great Divide 75
Iceclad Ocean 75
Icewell Keep 85
Kael Drakkel 85
Temple of Veeshan 85
Siren's Grotto 85
Skyshrine 85
Sleeper's Tomb 90 (not sure about this one, double check me)
Thurgadin 85
Tower of Frozen Shadow 85
Velketor's Labyrinth 85
Wakening Lands 75
Western Wastes 80

[Dolalin]

Been thinking about this and based on this post quoted above, I'm thinking City zones should actually have a 75 modifier not a 100:


The "newbie" zones in
Freeport, GFay, and Nek Forest all are shown with a 0% bonus.


Which would make more sense, because you'd think Casey would have said something about it otherwise.

[Dolalin]

Also just made the connection that the idea of "newbie zone" ZEM that I keep seeing popping up is just people getting the level 1-6 newbie ZEM and not realizing it. That explains that little bit of weirdness in the old posts very cleanly.

Another tweak to the above list by the way, looks like LOIO ZEM was nerfed from 100 to 75 in the same January 2001 patch that raised the dungeon ZEMs, per this post:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/VX65YdfLYnU/OnSctcl_2x4J

Although this one says Feb 2001 (that's where I got the original date from):

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/4_sRNfJSNHE/rL8k_44W2V0J

It's one of those two, anyways.

[Dolalin]

Well this is interesting.

Everyone knows LOIO was nerfed to have an xp penalty right? Not so fast.

The earliest reference I'm seeing to LOIO ZEM being 60 is June 2003 ShowEQ forum posts where they were using windbg.exe to pull ZEMs out of the client memory.

http://www.showeq.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-3658.html

Both the above two newsgroup posts actually in-era say the ZEM was 75.

If LOIO ZEM was nerfed to 60 at all, it may have happened outside of the P99 timeline.

[Dolalin]

Another source for LOIO ZEM being 75 after the nerf from 100, in May 2001:


Originally posted by Maven on 05-25-2001 07:49 AM

No offense, but I rather think you're making up your numbers to fit your formula, because my experimental numbers don't fit it.

Here's my group:

Level 16 High Elf Wizard
Level 19 Paladin
Level 19 Druid
Level 18 Warrior

The group killed a level 20 Sabertooth Tiger in Lake of Ill Omen, and the Wizard got 8285 Experience. The only way I was able to get the formula to even come close was to put the +5 modifiers in.

20 * 20 * 100 * .75 * (21 / 92) * 1.1 * 1.1

28 * 20 * 100 is for a level 20 mob
.75 is the ZEM of Lake of Ill Omen
21 / 92 is the group division (16+5) / (16+5 + 19+5 + 19+5 + 18+5)
1.1 is the group bonus for 4 players
1.1 is the class adjuster for int casters

I've got more data that confirms the formula, so I'm pretty sure at this point that it's accurate.

Maven


http://web.archive.org/web/20030527224128/http://www.ethernalquest.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=HackersQuest+Main+Forum&number=1&topic=002742.cgi&ReplyNum=000023&TopicSubject=How+experience+works


I am trying to find more sources for some of these "city" ZEMs supposedly being 100. It may have been true but I need to see an in-era mention to be convinced of it.

[Dolalin]

ANTONICA

Befallen 80 until January 2001, then 90
Blackburrow 80
East Commons 75
East Freeport 75
East Karana 75
Erud's Crossing 75
Everfrost 75
Feerrott 75
Gorge of King Xorbb 75
Halas 100
High Keep 80
Highpass Hold 80
Innothule Swamp 75
Kithikor Woods 75
Lake Rathe 75
Lavastorm Mountains 75
Lower Guk 80
Misty Thicket 75
Nagafen's Lair 80
Najena 80 until January 2001, then 90
Nektulos 75
Neriak- Commons 100
Neriak- Foreign Quarter 100
Neriak- Third Gate 100
North Freeport 100
North Karana 75
North Qeynos 100
North Ro 75
Oasis of Marr 75
Ocean of Tears 75
Oggok 100
Permafrost 80 until January 2001, then 90
Qeynos Hills 75
Qeynos Catacombs 80 until January 2001, then 96
Rathe Mountains 75
Rivervale 100
Runnyeye 80 until January 2001, then 96
Solusek's Eye 80 until January 2001, then 90
South Karana 75
South Ro 75
Splitpaw Lair 80 until January 2001, then 90
Surefall Glade 100
Temple of Cazic Thule 80
Upper Guk 80 until January 2001, then 90
West Commonlands 75
West Freeport 75
West Karana 75


FAYDWER

Ak'Anon 100
Butcherblock Mountains 75
Castle Mistmoore 80
Crushbone 80
Dagnor's Cauldron 75
Felwithe 100
Greater Faydark 75
Kaladim 100
Kedge Keep 100
Steamfont Mountains 75
Lesser Faydark 75
Ocean of Tears 75
Unrest 80


ODUS

Erudin 100
Erud's Crossing 75
The Hole 80 until Jan 2001, then 100
Kerra Isle 80 until Jan 2001, then 96
Paineel 75
Stonebrunt Mountains 75
Toxxulia Forest 75
Warrens 80


KUNARK

Burning Woods 75
Cabilis 100
Charasis 85
Chardok 85
City of Mist 85
Dalnir 85
Dreadlands 75
Emerald Jungle 75
Field of Bone 75
Fironia Vie 75
Frontier Mountains 75
Kaesora 85 until January 2001, then 100
Karnor's Castle 85
Kurn's Tower 85
Lake of Ill Omen 100 until Jan/Feb 2001, then 75
The Mines of Nurga 85 until January 2001, then 95
Sebilis 85
Skyfire Mountains 80
Swamp of No Hope 75
The Overthere 75
Timourous Deep 75
Temple of Droga 85 until January 2001, then 95
Trakanon's Teeth 75
Veeshan's Peak 75
Warsliks Woods 75


VELIOUS

Cobalt Scar 75
Crystal Caverns 85
Dragon Necropolis 85
Eastern Wastes 75
Great Divide 75
Iceclad Ocean 75
Icewell Keep 85
Kael Drakkel 85
Temple of Veeshan 85
Siren's Grotto 85
Skyshrine 85
Sleeper's Tomb 90
Thurgadin 85
Tower of Frozen Shadow 85
Velketor's Labyrinth 85
Wakening Lands 75
Western Wastes 80


In lieu of any other data on the cities I'm going to leave them as is, on the basis that: they affect quest XP, there is no other reasonable data for them, and they were later nerfed by Verant after PoP.

I tweaked Kerra, Runnyeye and QCat ZEMs up by 1 because I made a rounding error. QCat is cited at 96 in the newsgroups so it makes sense.

Given all the posts and sources quoted above, this is much closer to how ZEMs were in classic than I suspect the current P99 ZEMs are, and I would encourage staff to quietly make a change if they agree.

[bwe]

Guards are going to have groups and lists lol

[Dolalin]

Correction on the Kerra ZEM. It must have started out as 75 ZEM because I see the 20% bump in the patch message only revved up to 90 per many links including the below from 2003:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/o2AinXHJnbw/Hkxtm1wXzkQJ

[fadetree]

Nice work, Dolalin. Any thoughts from the devs here?

[DMN]

The exp was probably boosted in home cities. I remember even in ak'anon individual spawns were being camped by solo individuals. Like "I''m camping clockwork XVII nut i think XVI is open" type stuff.

[Dolalin]

Yes that matches my experience too come to think of it DMN.

[Dolalin]

I've figured out when these low level dungeon ZEMs got raised above standard. It was in the March 19, 2002 patch (also the one where they added the low level rezzes etc):


- Raised the amount of experience gained in lower-level dungeons.


http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20020319.html

And here is a newsgroup thread with people discussing what new lowbie dungeon zones got raised (and mentions that LOIO got reduced (ie from 75 to 60)):


I'm pretty sure LOIO has been hit with a negative modifier. Bloodgill
goblins appear to be of a slightly higher level than Frost Giant Scouts
(bloodgills are mostly dark blue to me, with a few light blues, while
Giants are mostly light blue with a few dark blues), and yet my XP bar
seemed to move a lot faster in Great Divide. This has happened to me
twice already, the feeling that my xp is going nowhere at the bloodgill
camp.


https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/8BUjYqg9ads/ItDCyN_2bIcJ

So these high ZEMs (and the LOIO 60 ZEM) are out of era for our server.

[tommydgun]

Dude you are trying so hard all over the forums but are clearly being ignored. It's hilarious.

[liquidki]

I think it would be a positive fix to put these ZEMs back to what they were in classic. Upper Guk and Unrest are packed while Permafrost, Runnyeye, Splitpaw Lair, and Cazic Thule (other than rubi hunters) are empty.

I think it would get people to spread out a bit and discover new things. If anything I think the Permafrost ZEM should be increased since it's so far out of the way of ports and such, and Runnyeye as well since it's more dangerous than most and the mobs have high regen. Runny, Splitpaw, and Cazic also are pretty light on loot, again minus the rubi, so a ZEM buff on those zones I think could again help spread the dungeoneering population around the world a bit more.

[Man0warr]

You'd have to give unclassic ZEMs on Perma/Runny/Splitpaw/CT to get people to go there. Main reason no one goes to those is location and/or annoying healer mobs.

[Telin]

Good work.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Good work.

I plugged this into the Dev -> Player Google Translator and it came back as "Get your HHK and Upper Guk XP in while the gettin's good, boys!" *scratches head*

[Dolalin]

Dude you are trying so hard all over the forums but are clearly being ignored. It's hilarious.

This comment didn't age well. :p

[tommydgun]

This comment didn't age well. :p

I'm actually glad someone responded, because it was really true for a while there :)

[Asteria]

Fix green 2019. Nerf the ridiculous ZEM zones

[Nirgon]

Getting more xp in CT on my rogue now than I was in HK basement.

Something to do with better players and more spawns I think.

I find your lack of strength disturbing.

[Wallicker]

Need to wipe green/teal and start fresh imho with this revolutionary info, sorry neckbeards.

[Palemoon]

Hopefully will see a more classic ZEM list for new red99.

[Ashenden]

Greal was just the beta, Greal 2 will be the real deal.

[Brocode]

so the xp is faster than it supposed to be? damn i guess im not hardcore anymore, because felt REALLY slow on actual ZEM. Nice find tho.

[apeBits]

Please tell me this is coming for the January patch. I'd love to see the ZEMs restored to their classic values, and the "hot zone" ZEMs removed completely. They were out of era, and were supposed to randomly rotate anyway. What we have on P99 is a Luclin era hot zone rotation frozen in time.

[Asteria]

Bump

Make Norrath Great(ererrrererest) Again!

[Dolalin]

There will be a patch in two days supposedly, maybe at least wait for that before you start bumping things :p

[Ezrick]

No way SolA didn't have a higher xp level LONG before Jan 2002. Kedge Keep as well. I think you need to go back MUCH farther and look just a couple of months or so after launch. XP modifiers were increased in all dungeons and the death penalty was halved specifically because no one would go into dungeons. The entire player base was huddled at zone lines. (Don't forget there were no clerics high enough to res you either).

My guess is that is where the base XP for dungeons increased to 100.

[Dolalin]

No way SolA didn't have a higher xp level LONG before Jan 2002. Kedge Keep as well. I think you need to go back MUCH farther and look just a couple of months or so after launch. XP modifiers were increased in all dungeons and the death penalty was halved specifically because no one would go into dungeons. The entire player base was huddled at zone lines. (Don't forget there were no clerics high enough to res you either).

My guess is that is where the base XP for dungeons increased to 100.

I'm not sure who you're talking to, but have a look at this list.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3044130&postcount=24

This is what I propose as the closest to classic that evidence can substantiate. It has Kedge at 100 from launch and Sol A gets its boost in Jan 2001.

All dungeons had a 5 zem bonus from the very first time people started computing the values, so it was probably always there. And I've allowed for that.