Troll vs. Ogre Warrior on Green

[Tr4c3r]

Both great options, wondering which one you guys think is the best. I heard that ogre stun immunity was changed so wondering if trolls edge them out now.

[Baler]

Inb4 the drones say ogre
Pick what ever race you think looks cool in plate and has a good swing animation.

Ogre FSI was not changed by the way. You're thinking of the bash change with spellcasting interrupt.
Ogres are still FSI to bash's stun mechanic.

---
Warrior Race Racials only matter while leveling. Come raid time you'll be getting Complete Heals and spamming instant clickies for agro.
Come Velious race litterally doesn't matter. I've seen DE's tank better than ogres simply because gear.

oh, also Green/Teal won't have 6 years of kunark. So FAR less people will actually get their epic.

[Snaggles]

FSI is only debatable (and that's a stretch) for casting classes. I'd argue more important for SK's who like to FD split than sham's since once slow is in the mobs bash timer goes through the moon.

With a warrior it's really level > gear > base stats. A fraction of a second pause hardly effects white damage and doesnt effect proc rate.

So yea, a non-capped stam tank vs a capped one after buff at level 60 is what, 360hps? A nice advantage but even eeking every last mana out of CH it's far from a game-changer.

[bwe]

Halfling

[Wallicker]

Ogre:
FSI(prevents loss of aggro generation others get while stunned)
Str 140
Sta 132
Dex 70
Total 342

Troll:
Regen
Str 118
Sta 119
Dex 75
Total 312

Ogres base stats are so far ahead of other races for warrior if you don’t mind their looks it’s a no brainer

[Palemoon]

why leave out agility? closes the gap a bit between troll/ogre

[Snaggles]

why leave out agility? closes the gap a bit between troll/ogre

Because it's prioritized after 75 skill just slightly more than Charisma as a tank.

[Gatorsmash]

If you ever play solo - Troll. Group ogre is just better, lower xp pen and the regen isn't such a huge thing vs solo when sitting-bind wounds will be so slow post 20+ you will start cutting yourself

[Tecmos Deception]

Even if FSI isn't crucially important for a warrior, it sure as hell is convenient. No getting stunned and spinning in circles for 2 seconds. Ever.

Regen is hardly even convenient for a warrior imo. It's not like you're going to be soloing. Especially at 51+ when the regen amount gets more significant.

[Soothsayer]

There's lots of talk about FSI and other racials, but what about base stats like strength and stamina? Does having substantially more strength give a correspondingly substantial increase in melee damage, which is really valuable in group settings? Or is the benefit to strength negligible?

[casiof91w]

I think the Troll Warrior is a little more iconic. Ogre warriors always struck me as min/max, not that there is anything wrong with that.

[Tr4c3r]

Not sure how I made the decision, but I made a halfling warrior

[Cen]

I actually legitimately think halflings are on par with ogre and troll specifically just for warriors.

FSI and Regen are way less crazy on a war compared to SK/Shaman and for the most part see a small benefit.. One not far from hide and sneak both. The stats are great too though.

With warriors you can be whatever tbh. SKs lose more from not being big race since they only get bash not kick, and cast in combat, and have FD Regen bonuses

Halflings are one of the few hide races and the only way a warrior can sneak. Its powerful. Halflings also have one of the top warrior stat aggregates

[Snaggles]

Even if FSI isn't crucially important for a warrior, it sure as hell is convenient. No getting stunned and spinning in circles for 2 seconds. Ever.

Regen is hardly even convenient for a warrior imo. It's not like you're going to be soloing. Especially at 51+ when the regen amount gets more significant.

The stun/spin nightmare only happens from the side or back. Couple this with the larger races tendency to have clumsy escapes (at least in my experience) they tend to die from chain-spins more than the smaller races.

There are plenty of reasons to roll a biggie and I do think as a “tank” the ogre is amongst the best races for the job. FSI is my lowest priority though for a warrior. As a gnome mainly soloing in my mid 50’s I don’t even notice it let alone have had problems for lack of it.

As a side note with the way swing timers work it’s hardly a dps loss at all.

[Tecmos Deception]

The stun/spin nightmare only happens from the side or back. Couple this with the larger races tendency to have clumsy escapes (at least in my experience) they tend to die from chain-spins more than the smaller races.

There are plenty of reasons to roll a biggie and I do think as a “tank” the ogre is amongst the best races for the job. FSI is my lowest priority though for a warrior. As a gnome mainly soloing in my mid 50’s I don’t even notice it let alone have had problems for lack of it.

As a side note with the way swing timers work it’s hardly a dps loss at all.

Eh. You sure about the way spinstun works? It was always my understanding that any time you get bash stunned while turning, you spin at the speed you were turning until the stun wears off.

[Snaggles]

Eh. You sure about the way spinstun works? It was always my understanding that any time you get bash stunned while turning, you spin at the speed you were turning until the stun wears off.

Hmm...I'm never sure in this game, lol.

I just know I've never been spun from the front (certainly can't recall it in 50 some odd warrior solo levels). I have when fleeing or straffing but as an ogre, gnome and all that.

[Tecmos Deception]

If Baobob could connect with any of his bashes, I'd be able to provide some insight into this.

Hmm. I THINK I was in mid-turn when that one hit, and I didn't start spinning. Maybe you're right about it. I'll keep spastically twisting back and forth while facetanking stuff for a few fights. Lol.

[Cen]

Eh. You sure about the way spinstun works? It was always my understanding that any time you get bash stunned while turning, you spin at the speed you were turning until the stun wears off.

This is how it works.

[Tecmos Deception]

Yeah, I've been fiddling with trying to get bashed from the front on and off since Snaggles suggested it can't happen from the front. It definitely happens from the front. Maybe you just are rarely in mid turn when facing an NPC so you aren't noticing it.

[Troxx]

No race specific warrior traits are game makers/breakers but there are some key perks.

Large races: slam and generally superior stats (big perk)

Small races: mobility and not needing shrinks (minor perk)

Ogre specific: FSI. I’d argue this is most valuable at the high end. Minor stuns here and there on big mobs do result in less threat generation. This is most important when playing point man for a big raid. As a dwarf warrior on blue I’m not jealous of ogre stats. Most of the time I could care less about FSI but boy howdy there have been moments I’ve wished I had it when facing fast quad rounds and bashes from high mobs that had me stunned (and thus not swinging weapons to build threat).

Troll specific: regen. Especially on green, for the lifetime of your leveling this healing adds up a lot ... especially if/when you find yourself soloing or small grouping. At the very high end with raids this is less important but it is pretty damn noticalble even in a full group. When this takes off with kunark ... trolls simply need less healing ... a lot less of it. Passive regen cumulatively constitutes a majority of the healing your character gets over the course of its life and Trolls have double it. From 51+ it really takes off exponentially. Healing an iksar monk over time is much easier than a human. Healing a troll (and later iksar) warrior requires less mana over time, especially on grindy xp group content.

Halfling: sneak/hide is hard to put a price tag on. This is a very unique ability to have on this class which opens up possibilities.

Personally? If I started a warrior on green I’d choose Troll. It’s an objectively great choice but not necessarily BEST.

None of this makes or breaks the toon.

[Graahle]

Trolls are more handsome.

At the end of the day, as long as you don't roll a shitty lizard. Worst looking thing I've ever seen.

[Deckk]

The right answer is gnome.

[Cen]

No race specific warrior traits are game makers/breakers but there are some key perks.

Large races: slam and generally superior stats (big perk)

Small races: mobility and not needing shrinks (minor perk)

Ogre specific: FSI. I’d argue this is most valuable at the high end. Minor stuns here and there on big mobs do result in less threat generation. This is most important when playing point man for a big raid. As a dwarf warrior on blue I’m not jealous of ogre stats. Most of the time I could care less about FSI but boy howdy there have been moments I’ve wished I had it when facing fast quad rounds and bashes from high mobs that had me stunned (and thus not swinging weapons to build threat).

Troll specific: regen. Especially on green, for the lifetime of your leveling this healing adds up a lot ... especially if/when you find yourself soloing or small grouping. At the very high end with raids this is less important but it is pretty damn noticalble even in a full group. When this takes off with kunark ... trolls simply need less healing ... a lot less of it. Passive regen cumulatively constitutes a majority of the healing your character gets over the course of its life and Trolls have double it. From 51+ it really takes off exponentially. Healing an iksar monk over time is much easier than a human. Healing a troll (and later iksar) warrior requires less mana over time, especially on grindy xp group content.

Halfling: sneak/hide is hard to put a price tag on. This is a very unique ability to have on this class which opens up possibilities.

Personally? If I started a warrior on green I’d choose Troll. It’s an objectively great choice but not necessarily BEST.

None of this makes or breaks the toon.

I still remember your "ive never felt true power until warrior in the 50's" because recently people have convinced me warriors are pathetic in the 50s and I tried to find that topic again ;D

[Troxx]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283640

2 years and a few days ago.

My opinion hasn’t changed :)

[Cen]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283640

2 years and a few days ago.

My opinion hasn’t changed :)

I want to make a warrior because of this. The weird thing is, id make a DE one but guises are available, but I might not get a guise, so I wont have access to DE form :P so maybe I should just make the damn DE since its sexy war.

Barbarians look awesome too :P I just dont want to do the ogre or troll lol

Edit: I even posted on your other topic about the DE war, hah

[Troxx]

Unless you plan on donating your life to green you likely won’t see a guise.

Dark elf is arguably the worst races objectively for the warrior class but I’ve always been an advocate of fashionquest. Especially for warriors gear fixes all other deficiencies. With content-appropriate gear a warrior will function perfectly fine at all levels. The low starting strength for a class that wears plate will probably be the biggest annoyance early on.

Point is ... if you like the way dark elf looks you should make a dark elf warrior. I would not count on getting a guise.

[Gustoo]

Guise is easy to get versus manastone.

Use your brain be an ogre. Or be a halfling for the exp bonus.

[Troxx]

Guise is easy to get versus manastone.

Use your brain be an ogre. Or be a halfling for the exp bonus.

Comparing 1 shit sock camp to another (comparatively) doesn't actually translate to the less shitty sock being reasonable.

For those who have jobs/families, even a 15 hour line constitutes not possible. If dude has a hard on for dark-elf he shouldn't bank on actually getting a guise.

[Cen]

You didn't have to make it sound so erotic though ;D

[Danth]

Dark Elves have low starting statistics for a Warrior, but hide is a decent consolation prize. I wouldn't call it critical, but it's about the closest thing that class gets to a pause button. Having good innate night vision is not to be under-rated on P1999 anymore either.

Danth

[Trainhop]

only half elf innoruuk war w/ guise beats ogre.