Is the Troll regen for Shaman noticable?

[Vanessa]

I'm planning to play either an Ogre or Troll Shaman, but unsure which to go with.

Since Shamans convert health to mana with their spells, it makes sense to go Troll, no? But I've also heard people say the Troll regen isn't very good anyway and that some people hardly even notice it's there, whereas the Ogre stun resist will you save you from having to recast your interrupted spells?

[DMN]

Well, since you can convert about half an amount of life to mana, you pretty much add the troll regen rate/2 as additional mana per tick. There is a chart on the wiki wtih regen raes. You should also consider the eventual snare necklace and halfling illusions troll shaman will have access too. I'd certainly go troll starting in vanilla.

[Polycaster]

Regen is huge for shaman.

[Vanessa]

Well, since you can convert about half an amount of life to mana, you pretty much add the troll regen rate/2 as additional mana per tick. There is a chart on the wiki wtih regen raes. You should also consider the eventual snare necklace and halfling illusions troll shaman will have access too. I'd certainly go troll starting in vanilla.

Sorry, Halfing illusions? That's really a thing? What is the item called!?!?! I'd LOVE to be a Halfing Shaman!!

[NegaStoat]

Regen is massive for a shaman at every stage of the game, regardless of what gear you have, until you get Torpor. Period. Even then you're insanely happy to have it because lvl 60 character regen is big.

To answer the question about Halfling illusion - http://wiki.project1999.com/Innoruuk_Symbol_Quests

When Kunark launches, the Innoruuk symbol quests are put in and Trolls that worship Inny can do them. One of the stages of doing the quests grants you a one (1) charge Halfling illusion item that can be used in any zone of the game. You can easily get a freshly charged illusion item again any time you want for doing a very simple camp.

The usefulness of the illusion varies. You still remain an Innoruuk worshiper which carries a very big faction hit with interactions. For what it's worth, I leveled a Troll Shaman of Inny from levels 12-18 off of the Bandits in Lake Rathe (including the Brigands) and saved every red sash in the bank using 10 slot toolboxes. Because of the small faction hits of killing the bandits, my faction was good enough to go into Qeynos with invis, use the illusion on the Docks side, and turn in every sash for the bronze weapons and level 20.

[Tecmos Deception]

Regen is massive for a shaman at every stage of the game, regardless of what gear you have, until you get Torpor. Period. Even then you're insanely happy to have it because lvl 60 character regen is big.

I agree, though I think that during classic it is just a small perk because you only get +1 regen standing and +4 sitting. It's nice, a good excuse to get smacked once in a while or to regen a bit faster after canniing (if you can stand trying to canni dance with this "click to meditate" feature), but it's not really significant imo like the regen at 51+ is.

+8/+11 regen while standing/sitting at 60 is the real deal!

[jolanar]

As a low level troll on green: it's very noticeable.

It was not noticeable on Blue when I was twinked out with 500+ hp on a level 1.

[Vanessa]

I agree, though I think that during classic it is just a small perk because you only get +1 regen standing and +4 sitting. It's nice, a good excuse to get smacked once in a while or to regen a bit faster after canniing (if you can stand trying to canni dance with this "click to meditate" feature), but it's not really significant imo like the regen at 51+ is.

+8/+11 regen while standing/sitting at 60 is the real deal!

So you think the regen isn't that big of a deal until sometime in a year or so when the next version of the game comes out?

If that's true, then maybe I'll just go Barbarian or Ogre instead of Troll. It's difficult for me to rationalize making the game harder by being evil and having big exp penalty for a year or longer, before I get any kind of good use out of the racial ability haha.

[NegaStoat]

So you think the regen isn't that big of a deal until sometime in a year or so when the next version of the game comes out?

If that's true, then maybe I'll just go Barbarian or Ogre instead of Troll. It's difficult for me to rationalize making the game harder by being evil and having big exp penalty for a year or longer, before I get any kind of good use out of the racial ability haha.

Let me help put this into perspective for you. Taking a stance of just solo power only, my Iksar Shaman which possesses identical regeneration as a troll could solo every bit as fast as a Dark Elf necromancer once she reached level 34. The closer I got to 50, the stronger the character became and the regen was a key factor with the leveling speed. The character used wisdom caster items only - no melee from 34 on. So what I'm basically asserting is - don't look at the racial experience penalty for having regeneration as a drawback. It absolutely is not critical by any means.

[Tortok]

Be sure to make your troll an Innoruuk worshipper for the snare necklace. It is so nice when fighting in close quarter dungeons where a runner can ruin your life (http://wiki.project1999.com/Innoruuk_Symbol_Quests).

[Tecmos Deception]

Let me help put this into perspective for you. Taking a stance of just solo power only, my Iksar Shaman which possesses identical regeneration as a troll could solo every bit as fast as a Dark Elf necromancer once she reached level 34. The closer I got to 50, the stronger the character became and the regen was a key factor with the leveling speed. The character used wisdom caster items only - no melee from 34 on. So what I'm basically asserting is - don't look at the racial experience penalty for having regeneration as a drawback. It absolutely is not critical by any means.

I think I agree with the bold part but I think your description of the rest of the stuff is a bit inflated. I like regen (I mean, I went troll after all), but I still think that pre-kunark it is just too minor to make much of a difference.

In a fight that lasts 1-2 minutes, how often do you really think ~20-50 extra hit points of regen is going to be a difference maker? That's not even enough hp to canni into 1 root cast. It's 1 melee round from a level 20 mob. Is 1-3 extra hp per tick of regen over the course of 200-300+ hours of leveling the equivalent of 5% or 10% more exp required (besides FSI and barb gear/faction perks having some sort of effect)? I think it's a wash at best, but that the regen scaling at 51+ becomes very significant and is the only perk that has meaning in most group and raid settings.

[Gatorsmash]

Always went troll shammy for the regen and clicky, have max'd troll on blue and live blahnik blah,blah.

I'll tell you right now I've been wrong all this time, ogre is better. frontal stun immunity is better than regen. I rerolled ogre because troll starting area was so crowded, its clearly better. You will die less with FSI than with regen, especially when it counts on those named farming spots

[bwe]

Ogres are ugly tho

[Zeboim]

Better looking that Ogres. Giant garbage patch kids. Trolls have that Triangle a e s t h e t i c

I think people drastically underestimate how much of a perk that regen can be in a fresh server leveling context. Under 24 it cuts a lot of downtime solo, and Shaman solo under 24 is a miserable fucking slog. In groups it means you can take a few whacks and not have to bother healing yourself but you'll still be fully healed in a pretty short amount of time. It's pretty useful.

[NegaStoat]

I think I agree with the bold part but I think your description of the rest of the stuff is a bit inflated. I like regen (I mean, I went troll after all), but I still think that pre-kunark it is just too minor to make much of a difference.


From levels 20-49 the regen for a sitting Troll & Iksar is 6hp per tick. From my personal experience, I leveled my Iksar using just casting gear from 35-41 off of a two spawn guard tower in West Karana, and from 41-49 off of the Den & Friends camp of dwarves in Butcherblock. Could a Barbarian have done the same camps at the same level range? Absolutely, sure. The issue I was having at the bottom end of the level ranges were resists, and there were some times when the spawns were happening that I'd have to bake off extra mana to compensate. Meanwhile, at the upper end of the level range I could bake off more mana for faster damage to get the mobs dead so that the timer was started sooner, so over time I was having them spawn faster.

There are better camps of course, but they are going to be camped hard (misty thicket guards, dock dwarves). That's why I picked those two camps, and without a question the regen assisted when the camps were hard as well as when they became easy to clear. The regen was probably giving me a return of visible mana of my bar of about a bubble and a half that I otherwise wouldn't have had.

[Tecmos Deception]

From levels 20-49 the regen for a sitting Troll & Iksar is 6hp per tick. From my personal experience, I leveled my Iksar using just casting gear from 35-41 off of a two spawn guard tower in West Karana, and from 41-49 off of the Den & Friends camp of dwarves in Butcherblock. Could a Barbarian have done the same camps at the same level range? Absolutely, sure. The issue I was having at the bottom end of the level ranges were resists, and there were some times when the spawns were happening that I'd have to bake off extra mana to compensate. Meanwhile, at the upper end of the level range I could bake off more mana for faster damage to get the mobs dead so that the timer was started sooner, so over time I was having them spawn faster.

There are better camps of course, but they are going to be camped hard (misty thicket guards, dock dwarves). That's why I picked those two camps, and without a question the regen assisted when the camps were hard as well as when they became easy to clear. The regen was probably giving me a return of visible mana of my bar of about a bubble and a half that I otherwise wouldn't have had.

I don't think that any of this refutes the arguments I made for why 1-50 regen bonuses are pretty insignificant, albeit convenient.

[Tenlaar]

At level 50 a sitting troll only has 22% more hp regen than an ogre/barb. With rubi bp factored in, it's 19%. Using every single one of the extra HP for canni, a troll will get roughly an extra 20 mana PER MINUTE over an an ogre/barb.

Think about that. 20 mana. Per. Minute. A single Envenomed Bolt is 320 mana. That's one extra Envenomed Bolt every 16 minutes or so.

The racial regen does not become significant until Kunark and post-50, at which point the availability of higher sources of regeneration still keep the increase relatively small. With as much regen as a 60 shaman can stack in Kunark, a troll will have 16% more standing hp regen than an ogre/barb will. Sitting it's 19% more.

So basically the only time when racial regen comes out to be significantly higher health regeneration is when it's considered at level 60 and without fungi tunic/staff and, obviously, pre-Torpor.

[NegaStoat]

Good enough. It wasn't my intent to mislead others - I was just going off of my own experiences. I will also confess that I had access to Canni 2, which is moderately more powerful than Canni 1. I agree with your findings on the math and what mana a lvl 20-49 and then 50 regen would provide.

[Siege]

At level 50 a sitting troll only has 22% more hp regen than an ogre/barb. With rubi bp factored in, it's 19%. Using every single one of the extra HP for canni, a troll will get roughly an extra 20 mana PER MINUTE over an an ogre/barb.

Think about that. 20 mana. Per. Minute. A single Envenomed Bolt is 320 mana. That's one extra Envenomed Bolt every 16 minutes or so.

The racial regen does not become significant until Kunark and post-50, at which point the availability of higher sources of regeneration still keep the increase relatively small. With as much regen as a 60 shaman can stack in Kunark, a troll will have 16% more standing hp regen than an ogre/barb will. Sitting it's 19% more.

So basically the only time when racial regen comes out to be significantly higher health regeneration is when it's considered at level 60 and without fungi tunic/staff and, obviously, pre-Torpor.

You can forget about ever acquiring a Rubicite Breastplate or Fungi Tunic. The list for those items will be measured in days, not hours, and the fatcats will inevitably sell them at massively inflated prices as soon as Green's economy normalizes.

Troll/Iksar regen is definitely noticeable while you're leveling and it improves exponentially in Kunark. I respect people who go without it to play a barb (ogre, not so much), but it's not something I would do. A shaman will always be able to make use of extra regen.

[BlackBellamy]

I'm planning to play either an Ogre or Troll Shaman, but unsure which to go with.

Which one looks better to you? That’s the real question, because otherwise Ogre is the only min max choice for three classes.

[Tenlaar]

You can forget about ever acquiring a Rubicite Breastplate or Fungi Tunic.

This is not an argument against the math. Even if you want to assume that the shaman in question is terrible and will never have end game gear, at level 40 while sitting it's 13 hp a tic versus 16. 19% more hp regen.

Even if somebody only plans to get to level 40 and then quit, racial regen is nice but even then it's not as big as most people act like it is. If somebody plans to actually main a shaman and attain end game levels and gear through Kunark then it becomes less and less of a bonus until it is practically negligible.

[Ligma]

Think about that. 20 mana.

Yet people would kill for a FT2 item at this point in the game. Hell, in velious a FT2 item is still worth a shitload