Necro charm and Feign death

[ammut]

If my memories are correct casting feigh death should break the charm and wipe the charmed mob memory. For now mob stays charmed and when charm breaks the mob come after me.


On a side note... fix the necro charm mecanism! It is killing me to bump my charisma to be able to charm UNDEADS. Necro charm should be based 1st on level and 2nd on magic resist.

thank you

[siinge]

negative on live in classic you could charm and fd a mob like its your normal pet

how else could necros solo frenzy on live in 99

delete this thread

[Dabamf]

negative on live in classic you could charm and fd a mob like its your normal pet

how else could necros solo frenzy on live in 99

delete this thread
Completely wrong.

FD removed charm from any pet. And yea this bug is slightly annoying. You can't bail on a charm fight anymore without risking yourself by dismissing your pet before casting FD.

It also makes charm killing too easy for necros (w/ high charsima, but that's another story) since you can just charm and FD any agro onto your new pet.

[siinge]

Completely wrong.

FD removed charm from any pet. And yea this bug is slightly annoying. You can't bail on a charm fight anymore without risking yourself by dismissing your pet before casting FD.

It also makes charm killing too easy for necros (w/ high charsima, but that's another story) since you can just charm and FD any agro onto your new pet.

negative played a necro in 99

i could charm frenzy fd and clear room repeat this was live

whats not classic are necro pets, a 49 necro pet with fine steel daggers was a monster. Was live for over a year. Mage pets were not as buffed as they are here. I think mage pets should be revered to live, Hell on live mage pets didn double attack or dw for 6 months. Yes played release. yes this was an issue

the delay on fine steal was in

hell giving your newb pet a 2 hander pre 20 would up its dmg considerably and has no effect here

quit the qq

necro charm and fd is fine

[ammut]

siinge why so much hate?

Necro charm based on charisma is a bug.. the developpers are planning to fix it.

On the frenzy part, back in the day you didn't need a charmed pet to clear frenz, the pet did the job ok... Even now with the vanilla 49 pet you can clear frenz easely.

I stand on what i said... i really think that feign death was breaking charm back in the days.

[siinge]

siinge why so much hate?

Necro charm based on charisma is a bug.. the developpers are planning to fix it.

On the frenzy part, back in the day you didn't need a charmed pet to clear frenz, the pet did the job ok... Even now with the vanilla 49 pet you can clear frenz easely.

I stand on what i said... i really think that feign death was breaking charm back in the days.

negative

Necro charm based on charisma is a bug? that made me chortle

All charm based spells have always been Charisma based. -Charisma dose not nor has ever helped a necro necro. You "think" feign death broke charm. Again incorrect back in 99 you could solo clear frenzy by charm fd clearing the room. The 49 Vanillia pet is not classic basesd its been tweaked. Even though verrant and sony did claim that later the dely on fine steel daggers did drop pets speed lvls. They later changed it when kunark came out. Well Kunark isnt out and giving the pet fine steel daggers does not change the pets attack speed. If we are gonna embrace classic we should have all the classic bugs as well. If not add in all the shit that was added to make the game less classic and more WoW. Like breeze, summon corpse, mage utily summon items, lowbie cleric lvl 20 rez etc.

Charm is currently fine even after the nerf, its working as intended. Please delete and move this thread.

[Soulfighter]

hell giving your newb pet a 2 hander pre 20 would up its dmg considerably and has no effect here

some links about that:

http://web.archive.org/web/20011212073632/eq.castersrealm.com/faq/faq.asp?Action=Show&Class=Necromancer

http://web.archive.org/web/20011212070208/eq.castersrealm.com/faq/faq.asp?Action=Show&Class=Magician

[ammut]

negative

Necro charm based on charisma is a bug? that made me chortle

All charm based spells have always been Charisma based. -Charisma dose not nor has ever helped a necro necro.

You don't know what you are talking about man. I had like 0 char, really 0 char due to - char gear and i could charm mobs from classic to PoP.

Let me guess you rolled an erudite necro, bumped you char to max and bought char gear. You sit at 200 char and u can charm mobs for almost full duration. That + feign death bug helps you farm shit.

I don't care about you exploiting a bug i just want the necro charm spell the way it is supposed to work. Now get out of my thread and let the devs decide how to fix that.

[Dabamf]

You "think" feign death broke charm. Again incorrect back in 99 you could solo clear frenzy by charm fd clearing the room..

Being extremely confident doesn't change the fact that you are wrong.

[yaaaflow]

Both sides here should probably try to find some evidence on the internet about this :). Failing that though I'd say you have to go with the side capable of making coherent arguments, so sorry siinge.

[ammut]

negative played a necro in 99

i could charm frenzy fd and clear room repeat this was live



http://web.archive.org/web/20011223090905/eq.castersrealm.com/spells/spell.asp?Id=497


NECRO, By Richaard (1/28/2001)

There are a couple of things you can do to break charm. Cast Feign Death, Gather Shadows, or Hide. Any 3 of those should break charm. There should be a way to cancel out charm as normal. I personally dont understand why Verant forces you to wait untill spell runs it's course when you should be in control of the mob.



Edit : When they are at it... Devs should fix the trick that allow you to click the 'go away button' to break charm just before you finish casting your charm spell.

[guineapig]

http://web.archive.org/web/20011223090905/eq.castersrealm.com/spells/spell.asp?Id=497


NECRO, By Richaard (1/28/2001)

There are a couple of things you can do to break charm. Cast Feign Death, Gather Shadows, or Hide. Any 3 of those should break charm. There should be a way to cancel out charm as normal. I personally dont understand why Verant forces you to wait untill spell runs it's course when you should be in control of the mob.

What about "pet go away"? That's how chanters do it, you just click the button.

[ammut]

What about "pet go away"? That's how chanters do it, you just click the button.

another bug :p

[guineapig]

Edit : When they are at it... Devs should fix the trick that allow you to click the 'go away button' to break charm just before you finish casting your charm spell.

Is that really a bug though? I mean you can do that with any spell. You can cast levitate and click off your old levitate right before it lands, same goes for enduring breath, etc...


Is the pet go away button not supposed to be there? (I honestly can't remember and wasn't playing in 1999). But as I understand it the button is just a hotkey for the /pet get lost command which anyone could make anyway.

[ammut]

As a necro i remember having to feign death or use my circlet to break charm. It is way to easy to cast charm and use get lost just before the spell lands.

[guineapig]

As a necro i remember having to feign death or use my circlet to break charm. It is way to easy to cast charm and use get lost just before the spell lands.


I understand how easy it is, but I'm just wondering if the text based command worked back then or not. Because if it worked then this is not a bug.

[Dabamf]

It didn't work. Enc had to dispel, necro had to FD

[Yoite]

you're not supposed to be able to do /pet get lost to un-charm a charmed pet. only invis or death (FD) or it breaking by itself.

[Haynar]

What about "pet go away"? That's how chanters do it, you just click the button.

Not for long.

Haynar

[Haynar]

If I recall, FD would break a charm, if you were FD for like 2 minutes. I cannot remember exactly at what point in the timeline it worked like this. For that matter, you lost all pets if you were FD for too long. I will research it more and see what I can put together.

Haynar

[LazyFuj]

If I recall, FD would break a charm, if you were FD for like 2 minutes. I cannot remember exactly at what point in the timeline it worked like this. For that matter, you lost all pets if you were FD for too long. I will research it more and see what I can put together.

Haynar

FD broke charmed pets.

Staying feigned with summoned pet for 2 min or more the pet poofed, but this was either late in kunark or early velious.

[ammut]

FD broke charmed pets.

Staying feigned with summoned pet for 2 min or more the pet poofed, but this was either late in kunark or early velious.

Yea they made pet poof if you stayed feign death more than a few minutes, but wasn't it a bit later. Luclin?

edit: still remember the uproar of the necro population when they did it. Bastards!

[LazyFuj]

Yea they made pet poof if you stayed feign death more than a few minutes, but wasn't it a bit later. Luclin?

edit: still remember the uproar of the necro population when they did it. Bastards!

You might be right, could def be luclin.

[Dabamf]

It was before kunark, because I changed classes before Kunark and I remember it affecting my necro, which I only played during classic.

Iirc, summoned pet poofed after prolonged FD some time after or around sky. Charmed pets instantly broke on FD from release through Kunark, and possibly beyond.

[siinge]

It was before kunark, because I changed classes before Kunark and I remember it affecting my necro, which I only played during classic.

Iirc, summoned pet poofed after prolonged FD some time after or around sky. Charmed pets instantly broke on FD from release through Kunark, and possibly beyond.

negative

[Dabamf]

I'll bet you a manastone that I'm right and you're wrong about FD breaking charm.

[Haynar]

I bet if you find me something that says how it really should be, I can make it like that too.

I dare ya to post "negative" again without something to back it up.

I am doing fixes for necros, FD, pets, etc., right now. I can move on to the other issues, if you want me to put this stuff on hold. Or you can try to help me out, and not make me spend all my time researching stuff on my own. The more time I have to research, the less time I can actually code stuff and test.

Haynar

[guineapig]

Not for long.

Haynar

Thanks for the clarification.

[ammut]

Or you can try to help me out, and not make me spend all my time researching stuff on my own. The more time I have to research, the less time I can actually code stuff and test.

Haynar

What informations do you need Haynar?

On charm breaking with feign death and inv i gave a link posted in 2001.

On charm being based on level and magic resist i tried to find something but evry time i find a post in a forum the link is broken. But i am 100% positive that necro charm wasn't based on charisma... i even remember that it was confirmed by verant.

[Haynar]

Thanks for the clarification.
It was just one of those things I stumbled on, when I was testing some stuff with charm parking mobs. I hit the button to make my charmed pet go away, and was like, wow, this shouldn't do this. So its been on my list of things to work on, but has not been a priority.

Haynar

[ammut]

February 17, 2000:

- The "Feign Death" spell, when cast by a Necromancer, will now have a
fixed duration. The Necromancer will receive several warnings prior to
the spell wearing off. This change was necessary because some
Necromancers found a way to gain experience through their pet while
being AFK for an extended duration, such as being in bed for the night.


Verant got so many complains about that change that they reverted it and instead put the poof pet mecanism in place. So Dabamf was right. It was before kunark.

[siinge]

Charm kiting, hence your pet not poofing while you charm. Ammut wants to make unnecessary changes getting stuff nerfed beyond its time.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=366

Also
Posted: Sep 19th 2003 2:30am | IP: Logged | Reply to this
Saurom

156 posts
Score: Decent
I've noticed that while in groups feigning death kills agro instantly on spells that generate immediately. This includes nukes, mez, slow, resist debuff, group taps ETC. This does not include any Damage over time spells. If you feign successfully and have so many dot spells on a mob that when you stand up and the next tick goes off it attacks you. You are WAY over dotting and it will continue to agro you until the other party members can taunt it off you.

For instance I was the parties ghetto mezzer and ghetto slower in a MMC group, I would get agro like nuts from both slowing and mezzing, after they had killed a mob and was about to move to the next I would feign death and as soon as they started fighting I would stand back up and almost completely agroless even though I had mezzed the mob maybe 3 times and slowed it's attacks. Feigning is a great way to charm kite correctly as well.

If your around level 52 waste the time to get your LoY feign, it barely ever fails and will get your abjuration maxed for death peace. Using hte level 16 feign and the 52 feign is a world of difference as far as fail rate goes.

[LazyFuj]

Charm kiting, hence your pet not poofing while you charm. Ammut wants to make unnecessary changes getting stuff nerfed beyond its time.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=366

?? :confused: He doesn't even explain his charm kiting. That post is in 2003 too.

[siinge]

?? :confused: He doesn't even explain his charm kiting. That post is in 2003 too.

still looking for more information, but apparently because a player here belives it wasnt it classic hes making a rage about having it fixed. As well as convincing others about the change with no supporting evidence. What do you think charm kiting means? I do remember personally in classic a necro would charm a frog in frenzy, fd and have the entire room swarm his pet, kinda like bard swarm except he would get no experience, rinse and repeat clear frenzy. I saw it with my own eyes. But apparently my word isnt as just as amust because i dont have nug huggers. So im looking for supporting evidence. Ive seen no links here proving other wise. He wants fd to break when you charm, i so do not rember this happening. As well as having pets poof after 6mins if your fd. In fact that didnt happen till velious.

[ammut]

found some more evidences on charisma effect on charm and on feign death breaking charm.....

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?topic_id=62698

psted on that thread :


1. No. Charm break is random. Charm does have a maximum duration, so it is worth setting a timer to the max, but you will very rarely see charm running to full.

2. You are a necro, so FD .

3. You cannot 'refresh' the duration of charm on a charmed mob. Either let it break, or force a break at a good time, and recharm. Both FD and invis will break charm.

4. Things that help you with a charmed pet:

- MR. If you can have it tashed or maloed, charm will last longer.

- snare. Druid/ranger snare is very long lasting, and makes charm breaks easy to handle.

- distance. Never be within melee range of your charmed pet. Use pet guard liberally, and a long way away from you.

- use your pet buffs, get hold of some mage summoned items - and claim them back after killing your pet when he is low. Remember: all damage is good damage.

[siinge]

found some more evidences on charisma effect on charm and on feign death breaking charm.....

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?topic_id=62698

psted on that thread :


1. No. Charm break is random. Charm does have a maximum duration, so it is worth setting a timer to the max, but you will very rarely see charm running to full.

2. You are a necro, so FD .

3. You cannot 'refresh' the duration of charm on a charmed mob. Either let it break, or force a break at a good time, and recharm. Both FD and invis will break charm.

4. Things that help you with a charmed pet:

- MR. If you can have it tashed or maloed, charm will last longer.

- snare. Druid/ranger snare is very long lasting, and makes charm breaks easy to handle.

- distance. Never be within melee range of your charmed pet. Use pet guard liberally, and a long way away from you.

- use your pet buffs, get hold of some mage summoned items - and claim them back after killing your pet when he is low. Remember: all damage is good damage.

that post was made in 2004

classic was released in 1999

thats 5 years later your talking what veluious? almost pop? thats along time for the change so it should not be changed here anytime soon thanks for confirming that, no change on Charm till 2004

[yaaaflow]

edit: nm

[ammut]

Siinge at least i am trying to do some research to back my arguments. What about you? Your previous post was from 2003, i already posted a 2001 thread stating that charm broke on feign death.... Now i post another one from sony station of 2004 stating the same thing. What more do you want?

Could you please find any post between 1999 and 2001 that says .. i charmed a mob.. casted feign death ... and watched my charmed pet fight?

Man i am not sure anymore if you are that dumb or if you are just playing the dumb to keep charm unchanged.

[Finawin]

-Charm used to break on FD

-Negative charisma affected necro charm(possibly mez, and fear as well...though this was changed at some point because it was buggy to begin with)

-Definitely were NOT able to FD indefinitely and keep your pet. They took out this ability to remove AFK leveling abilities as was stated above fairly soon after classic if not right when Sky was released.

-You also could NOT click off a charmed pet. You had to dispell it, invis, or wait for it to wear off on its own. (any class)

[Haynar]

Thanks to Nilbog, he found more information about FD breaking charm.

It will come later in the timeline.

http://www.therelentless.com/boards/showthread.php?t=129908

But for now, the nerf bat goes back on the shelf. We can swing it later. Enjoy.

Haynar

[Scrooge]

Wow, TR is still around?

[ammut]

Siinge was right then. But right now Fd is not working that way. When charm breaks, the mobs come after you feign death or no.