Sullon/Training Rules

[pasi]

Sullon Zek please or hardcode training rules i.e. aggro on too many mobs crashes your client. Obviously, this can be implemented for only certain zones. I think EZ server has something like this. Even with GMs monitoring huge battles, this was still an issue with basically every Hate or Fear engagement. I can't imagine that you guys want to watch us for every fight either.

[Envious]

Rules are for fucking faggots.

[mitic]

SULLON ZEK THE GOD OF RAGE

everything else is a compromise...

[Dfn]

Rules are for fucking faggots.

[Pudge]

maybe you bros dont understand that no rules = no population. at least not one greater than vztz could keep.

no training is the most important of any rules possible.

just make it so if someone gets frapsed training, he gets a 1 or 2 week ban on all chars and IPs used within the last 3 months. i like the idea of recording if someone's agro goes over a certain # of mobs too so GMs can use it as corroborating evidence

[Bombfist]

i.e. aggro on too many mobs crashes your client

exploitexploitexploit.

Take 30 seconds to think about that and then realise why it's terrible.

[Knuckle]

Sullon rules will lower the pop. alot. Keep training illegal imo. This is coming from someone whos gonna play monk or sk

[Macken]

I played on SZ 1 month after start all the way until the end until i was announced the winner. I prefer no rules, because that's easier to manage and it never discourages pvp.

On that note, a points board with negative points for griefing greenie, goes a long way towards controlling grief in 7-50 range. I remember how the SZ leaderboard was calculated if any developers were wondering.

But back on topic... training will only shift the balance to those classes that can train well. People will roll training classes mostly. It will become a contest of who can train the best and who has the most training classes and who can train the longest without stopping, etc...

Also, later in SZ timeline, they added a change to mez. When someone got mezzed by PC, it would break all aggro on all mobs. Didn't matter if they had 60 mobs 1/2 a foot away. They would all stop and go back to their spawns. I can't count how many trains i derailed after that change.

[Slave]

I played on SZ 1 month after start all the way until the end until i was announced the winner.

ROFLMFAO!!

[Macken]

Facts are facts bro.

Sorry if you lost.

[Fourthmeal]

SZ fucking rocked.

[Slave]

sorry to break it to you, but SZ was not what defined EQPvP, not by a long shot. in fact, EQPvP was up and running WAY before SZ was created, and merging SZ into the other PvP servers was what effectively murdered the EQPvP server. SZ was created as a degenerate cesspool with the hopes of attracting as many scumbag talentless players as possible (mission accomplished) and confining them to one place so that the actual real PvP servers (VZ, TZ, RZ) would not be plagued with unskilled, cowardly, training, griefing scumbags that think somehow training or repeatedly killing nakeds = skillz.

have a nice day

Sullon Zek was one of the top three most hardcore pvp experiences I've had in my life. It was precisely because of the scumbags, because of the ruleset, and because of the nature of EQ. I am a far, far better player now for having played on Sullon Zek, Darkfall, and Shadowbane, among others.

SZ was created because the other pvp servers were riddled with blue server rules and sentiments. How challenging is it to kill someone with an invincible healer on RZ? RZ was an absurd ruleset, and you know it. How often did you actually get to try to loot someone that didn't have all No-Drop on them? I mean that's just the tip of the iceberg.

In my opinion, it's wicked disingenuous of you to denigrate SZ for the very things that made it a fun and challenging server. I'm sure you have never had to deal with anything tougher if you're crying over just SZ, so I'm very highly confident I'd destroy you in most any even-close-to-equal encounter in any game. That's the way talent and experience intertwine, sir.

[Amuk]

On blue if someone trains you on p99 and you petition you end up getting yourself banned for wasting Uthgaards time. No PNP pls.

[Vendar]

Sullon Zek was one of the top three most hardcore pvp experiences I've had in my life. It was precisely because of the scumbags, because of the ruleset, and because of the nature of EQ. I am a far, far better player now for having played on Sullon Zek, Darkfall, and Shadowbane, among others.

SZ was created because the other pvp servers were riddled with blue server rules and sentiments. How challenging is it to kill someone with an invincible healer on RZ? RZ was an absurd ruleset, and you know it. How often did you actually get to try to loot someone that didn't have all No-Drop on them? I mean that's just the tip of the iceberg.

In my opinion, it's wicked disingenuous of you to denigrate SZ for the very things that made it a fun and challenging server. I'm sure you have never had to deal with anything tougher if you're crying over just SZ, so I'm very highly confident I'd destroy you in most any even-close-to-equal encounter in any game. That's the way talent and experience intertwine, sir.

good post sir, to be fair though, i never once said SZ was not hardcore. i 100% believe that SZ was the most hardcore server that allowed PvP. i just don't think its an accurate representation of what EQ PvP is, and if SZ is the only PvP server you played on at the highend level then i feel sorry for you.

That being said however, i am saying that training, needless griefing, and repeatedly raping people 20 levels below you is not PvP, and it does not in any way require any skill, strategy, or tactics, nor does it represent true EQ PvP. there is ZERO pvp skills involved in training, griefing noobs, and raping kids 20 lvls below you. the ONLY thing that was great about SZ was the hardcoded no cross teaming (as i think u or someone else may have mentioned).

as far as you destroying me, well its pointless to argue over a hypothetical situation, but i just got my Air Jordan shoes and i look forward to seeing you on the court ;)

[pasi]

.. if you perused the vztz forums at all, you would know that there are rarely fraps posted of trains (like 1 per month maybe?).

Thats really a testament to how ineffective relying on Fraps is in terms of policing trains. Only the most blatant of blatant trains get caught - i.e. a bard strolling up solo to a raid, stopping to wait for mobs, then running in.

I get the argument that training will keep the population down, and I'd rather have no rules (sans MQ and what not) than what we had on VZTZ - a rulebook that was impossible to enforce.

For me, it's more an issue of knowing where you stand rather than advocating trains as being healthy. Then again, who plays Everquest PvP for the actual combat? The fun in EQ PvP is resource control and the ability to be a complete shit head to people - you can find more skilled/involved combat in literally every other MMORPG to date.

Hardcoded rules work too as long as what they prevent outweighs the ability to exploit any loopholes. Something as simple as a client crash when you aggrod more than X mobs in PoHate or PoFear would solve a ton more problems than it would create.

[fiegi]

no rules, cept no hacking imo

[Carnal Malefactor]

Rules are for fucking faggots.

this.
save for hacking.

[Envious]

Oh Vendar... but I did not actually play on Sullon. Thats how it was on Tallon Zek.
Swing and a miss...

Pudge, I have been guilded with you like 3 fucking times. I dont care if you know who I am from VZ/TZ.

TRAINS WERE LEGAL ON LIVE*

Fiegi has it, no rules, no hacking. JUST LIKE LIVE*

All you hardcore red players are sure showing some faggotry in this thread.

[Walk It Out]

i dont mind any ruleset, but if training is acceptable i might reconsider rolling a shaman and go with a FD class

[naez]

i dont mind any ruleset, but if training is acceptable i might reconsider rolling a shaman and go with a FD class

It's cool bro

http://common.allakhazam.com/images/9/9/9959617a15eaa1b58c1ac9c94230100b.png

[pasi]

Tough it out until PoSky is launched imo.

[naez]

rez/tl box and cheetah/selos/DA is better anyways, at least for training on red servers since if someone hits you your FD breaks. FD great on blue servers cuz then you can watch the chaos unfold

NOT THAT I HAVE EXPERIENCE TRAINING SERVERS SUCH AS P1999

[pasi]

I was always a fan of the ignite blood -> Call of the Hero duo.

[Slave]

good post sir, to be fair though, i never once said SZ was not hardcore. i 100% believe that SZ was the most hardcore server that allowed PvP. i just don't think its an accurate representation of what EQ PvP is, and if SZ is the only PvP server you played on at the highend level then i feel sorry for you.

That being said however, i am saying that training, needless griefing, and repeatedly raping people 20 levels below you is not PvP, and it does not in any way require any skill, strategy, or tactics, nor does it represent true EQ PvP. there is ZERO pvp skills involved in training, griefing noobs, and raping kids 20 lvls below you. the ONLY thing that was great about SZ was the hardcoded no cross teaming (as i think u or someone else may have mentioned).

as far as you destroying me, well its pointless to argue over a hypothetical situation, but i just got my Air Jordan shoes and i look forward to seeing you on the court ;)

I think that the point I'd really like to impress on you is that it took real skill just to survive in Sullon Zek. You could get into a fight with a master even con player, and then an enraged mob of greenies could come along and tip the scales in either player's favor. It was dynamic, and not limited by counterintuitive level limits, equipment, or play nice rules. If it was in the game, it was in the game, and THAT was Everquest PvP to anyone that played for a length of time on Sullon Zek.

[Haul]

For all you dudes supporting this weak kids idea, GMs never got involved with training/other bullshit on live pvp servers. It's no holds barred. This isn't a bluebie server, its hardcore. Anyone who played 1999-2006 knows this. Dude who created this thread has a pussy mind style. Griefing is part of pvp servers, the majority of other players and I are not playing there to hold your hand homo. Last of all, you folks who constantly complain to GM staff are wasting their irl time. If you can't handle your own issues and bull shit on your own, your a punk and shouldn't play pvp.

[pasi]

For all you dudes supporting this weak kids idea, GMs never got involved with training/other bullshit on live pvp servers. It's no holds barred. This isn't a bluebie server, its hardcore. Anyone who played 1999-2006 knows this. Dude who created this thread has a pussy mind style. Griefing is part of pvp servers, the majority of other players and I are not playing there to hold your hand homo. Last of all, you folks who constantly complain to GM staff are wasting their irl time. If you can't handle your own issues and bull shit on your own, your a punk and shouldn't play pvp.

Congratulations on successfully reading the first three words of the original post.

Idiot.

[Haul]

Congratulations on successfully reading the first three words of the original post.

Idiot.

*****, your whole thread is gay

[Clownface]

Im all for a SZ ruleset.

[wehrmacht]

SZ rule set is the best. Only problem is that it does lower the population eventually. Most people just don't have the time to devote to 24 hour long corpse runs to plane of hate with another guild in zone camping corpses or training you with spite golems as soon as you zone in.

I think in order to have a successful server population with Sullon Zek rule set, there has to be an easier way to get corpses. At the very least, be able to get the priest of discord in your home town to summon your corpse for you if it's been dead for 24 hours. I'd make it shorter than that though. Something like 4 hours.

That would keep enough average players on the server where it's actually fun instead of just 100 mq2 cheaters.

[Knuckle]

i dont see anything hardcore about training. Wow you run around gather up a shitload of mobs and FD them on a guild. I love glory and being the dude that fucks another guild up, I fucking played a monk as my main longer than anyon other class, and I've dropped a few trains in retaliation and god i did get some giggles out of it. But at the end of the day, rampant unrestricted training would remove the awesome mass pvp fights we had at sebilis entrance, and alot of other zones.

Again, regulating something like training is a small matter and easy to track, and there's northing hardcore about running around training mobs, it would simply remove alot of big pvp fights.

[wehrmacht]

Knuckle, who the fuck is going to babysit the server and make sure people don't train?????????????

Since people are going to do it anyway whether it's against the rules or not, just try to implement something that prevents half the players on the server from quitting like the piriest of discord thing I said above.

[Lasher]

If training is decided against the rules can make it that it requires a fraps. GM can then look at it and decide punishment. If exp is as hard as p99 few people to get a 30 day suspension should pucker up everyons asshole and be afraid to train. It wont remove every single train but imo you would see less of them.

Later on in live they made mezzes clear aggro, it was a way for a bard and ench to derail trains. Just an idea.

No one wants to be trained its just people want to be able to train during or after a pvp they lost

[Crazycloud]

SZ rules fit me perfectly... but sadly it will not work do to training.


As Lasher said people are going to have to run fraps. I say anything goes besides Training.

[Knuckle]

SZ rules fit me perfectly... but sadly it will not work do to training.


As Lasher said people are going to have to run fraps. I say anything goes besides Training.

Yup, that's pretty much how it was policed on VZTZ. And on VZTZ you could two box and level rapidly on vztz...With slow exp and only oneboxxing here, it will be easy to pinpoint players trying to train and once a few people get hit with training bans people get the point.

[Crazycloud]

Also the difference between here and VZTZ is man if you get banned at lvl 50... you just lost months of work/EXP where as TZVZ u can PL to 50 in a day or 2. I doubt people will train raids and if they do, cya later.

[Pudge]

SZ rules fit me perfectly... but sadly it will not work do to training.


As Lasher said people are going to have to run fraps. I say anything goes besides Training.

exactly.

[Clownface]

I'm gonna play regardless of the ruleset. I just would prefer SZ.

I most dislike RZ item loot.

[Dfn]

SZ RZ mix. No play nice policy plus item loot.

[Envious]

Every time I read some idiot posting about SZ rules it makes me want to smash my face into the fucking wall.

All live pvp servers were this way.

Either way, Knuckle, etc, whoever. Its part of zone control.

If you control a zone, say Sebilis, you have to control the entrance so ppl cant just zone in and train juggs down to Trak.

I dont understand how you can want fucking GMs policing the server. It completely defeats the purpose of playing on an EQ Live like EMU server.

Come play WoW brah. Plenty of GY's to spirit rez at, no real pvp death penalty, insta CRs, no contesting instances. Fits your play style perfectly.

There is zero chance I will play a red EQ server with GM policing, it leads to everything we saw on the shit box.

[mimixownzall]

sorry to break it to you, but SZ was not what defined EQPvP, not by a long shot. in fact, EQPvP was up and running WAY before SZ was created, and merging SZ into the other PvP servers was what effectively murdered the EQPvP server. SZ was created as a degenerate cesspool with the hopes of attracting as many scumbag talentless players as possible (mission accomplished) and confining them to one place so that the actual real PvP servers (VZ, TZ, RZ) would not be plagued with unskilled, cowardly, training, griefing scumbags that think somehow training or repeatedly killing nakeds = skillz.

have a nice day

All I read was: "I'm a fucking pussy and couldn't handle getting my ass handed to me on SZ."

[wehrmacht]

I doubt people will train raids and if they do, cya later.

Almost every raid on TZVZ was trained when I played even though it was against the rules. It's not even possible to police this because things like the following:


1) Let's say it's a big guild vs guild fight in hate or fear, there's 78 Heresy chasing me, I have 20% hp left. I run straight into a giant wall of mobs and suicide myself, half of them will be retarded and follow me in, they may end up killing their whole raid off from aggro. Did I train them? Not really, but there will be 30 GM petitions and forum posts for it.

2) Some guy is chasing me in GUK / Sebillis / etc, I'm an FD class and decide to screw the guy over, I take a 1 foot detour to the side that aggros a mob (easy plausible deniability) then FD. Mob aggros him, I stand up and we both kill him. Even if there is FRAPS, it wasn't obvious what I did and is basically my word against his, 400 gm petitions and forum posts ensue.

It's IMPOSSIBLE to police training. The only logical option is Sullon Zek rule set and implement an easier corpse recovery method to prevent everyone from quitting like giving Priest of Discord the ability to summon corpses that have been dead for X amount of hours.

[mimixownzall]

good post sir, to be fair though, i never once said SZ was not hardcore. i 100% believe that SZ was the most hardcore server that allowed PvP. i just don't think its an accurate representation of what EQ PvP is, and if SZ is the only PvP server you played on at the highend level then i feel sorry for you.

That being said however, i am saying that training, needless griefing, and repeatedly raping people 20 levels below you is not PvP, and it does not in any way require any skill, strategy, or tactics, nor does it represent true EQ PvP. there is ZERO pvp skills involved in training, griefing noobs, and raping kids 20 lvls below you. the ONLY thing that was great about SZ was the hardcoded no cross teaming (as i think u or someone else may have mentioned).

as far as you destroying me, well its pointless to argue over a hypothetical situation, but i just got my Air Jordan shoes and i look forward to seeing you on the court ;)

I tried to play on the other pvp servers, but I kept getting whining tells about how I "ganked" them and didn't give them a "fair" fight. Fuck that.. I'm here to win and if that means hangin around until you're at half health, so be it.

[wehrmacht]

I tried to play on the other pvp servers, but I kept getting whining tells about how I "ganked" them and didn't give them a "fair" fight. Fuck that.. I'm here to win and if that means hangin around until you're at half health, so be it.

I attacked some troll SK on TZVZ named Sirdario while he was fighting a froglok, he started going "STOP, EXCUSE ME SIR, WHAT ARE YOU DOING, I WASN'T PROPERLY RESTED".

Obviously a TZ player :|

[mimixownzall]

SZ rule set is the best. Only problem is that it does lower the population eventually. Most people just don't have the time to devote to 24 hour long corpse runs to plane of hate with another guild in zone camping corpses or training you with spite golems as soon as you zone in.

I think in order to have a successful server population with Sullon Zek rule set, there has to be an easier way to get corpses. At the very least, be able to get the priest of discord in your home town to summon your corpse for you if it's been dead for 24 hours. I'd make it shorter than that though. Something like 4 hours.

That would keep enough average players on the server where it's actually fun instead of just 100 mq2 cheaters.

Like I have said before, the rules set did not hurt the population, it was the release of PoP that fucked over pvp.

Oh noes! Someone is coming! Head for the book!

[mimixownzall]

I say just no training your team. This worked fine on SZ. especially the way mob aggro works on p99.

[pasi]

Almost every raid on TZVZ was trained when I played even though it was against the rules. It's not even possible to police this because things like the following:


1) Let's say it's a big guild vs guild fight in hate or fear, there's 78 Heresy chasing me, I have 20% hp left. I run straight into a giant wall of mobs and suicide myself, half of them will be retarded and follow me in, they may end up killing their whole raid off from aggro. Did I train them? Not really, but there will be 30 GM petitions and forum posts for it.

2) Some guy is chasing me in GUK / Sebillis / etc, I'm an FD class and decide to screw the guy over, I take a 1 foot detour to the side that aggros a mob (easy plausible deniability) then FD. Mob aggros him, I stand up and we both kill him. Even if there is FRAPS, it wasn't obvious what I did and is basically my word against his, 400 gm petitions and forum posts ensue.

It's IMPOSSIBLE to police training. The only logical option is Sullon Zek rule set and implement an easier corpse recovery method to prevent everyone from quitting like giving Priest of Discord the ability to summon corpses that have been dead for X amount of hours.

I guess after 200+ posts in a week, I was bound to agree with one of them. At least partially.

[Pudge]

There is zero chance I will play a red EQ server with GM policing, it leads to everything we saw on the shit box.

it's sad man, but for every one of you there will be 3 others to fill your place when training is prohibited

[Abysis]

Vote training/corpse camping/bind camping all legal.

[Envious]

Rules are for fucking faggots.

[Nobb]

As opposed to "no rules" as some people seem to be, the argument against them does hold water.

Playing on a red server on live pretty much meant extremely limited GM intervention. Outside of conduct that SoE saw as harassment, like use of racial slurs, I rarely heard of GM's taking any action. The only in game "rules" that existed were constructed and enforced by the players. People who were douche bags were treated accordingly and most other people were treated fairly. As scary as it sounds to have "no rules" it's really not so bad.

It was not until much later in the life of TZ that I even heard of GM intervention taking place and I think it was because people were using hacks. My memory is a bit rusty, but I think PDM used some kind of zone cm delete crap to crash disco/indignation on Emperor when he was at 1%.

While intervention in that case was easily warranted, I don't see any reason to overburden the staff by having them try to police the server on their own. A task that I feel is really impossible anyway.

The live pvp servers had tons of underhanded bullshit going on all the time and yet many of us stuck with it. So, outside of keeping people from hacking I really don't see a reason why the success of the server will be directly linked to the presence of big brother.

[wehrmacht]

People don't quit because of no rules, they quit due to the 40 hour long CR's associated with them. Even if you only wiped in some simple zone like lower guk, when it's filled with enemy players, that could be a whopping 4+ hour cr just for that.

If you want to improve player retention, the only thing that needs to be addressed is CR. Put in sullon zek rule set and give priest of discord in towns the ability to summon corpses after they've been dead for X amount of hours. It's pretty damn simple!

[Pudge]

People don't quit because of no rules, they quit due to the 40 hour long CR's associated with them. Even if you only wiped in some simple zone like lower guk, when it's filled with enemy players, that could be a whopping 4+ hour cr just for that.

If you want to improve player retention, the only thing that needs to be addressed is CR. Put in sullon zek rule set and give priest of discord in towns the ability to summon corpses after they've been dead for X amount of hours. It's pretty damn simple!

corpse retrieval was really a big part of the EQ experience.. it's a part fo the penalty for dying. I actually liked trying to sneak into places and retrieve my corpse from corpse campers. but i do understand how it can be frustrating to ppl.

[wehrmacht]

corpse retrieval was really a big part of the EQ experience.. it's a part fo the penalty for dying. I actually liked trying to sneak into places and retrieve my corpse from corpse campers. but i do understand how it can be frustrating to ppl.

I don't think it would lessen the penalty of death that much if you let the priest of discord summon a corpse after it had been dead for 12 or 24 hours or whatever. Anytime you train a group to death at the bottom of sebillis, you'd basically be forcing them off the server for an entire day.

It just makes it so people can log off and sleep after being trained to death and actually go to their job the next day instead of staying up all night in some crazy naked CR battle till 5am.

Eventually they quit the server because that kind of play style isn't compatible for people with jobs. If you want training to be legal and want a server population above 50, it's just something you gotta do.

[naez]

Eventually they quit the server because that kind of play style isn't compatible for people with jobs.

I concur we must accommodate for the peasants

[Massive Marc]

No rules would seem the right way to go.

Lets be real for a second. The game has been out for over a decade. People coming to play on the P99red aren't going to be new comers to the game. Most people ( I would assume) coming to play P99red are going to know wtf is up. Training/corpse camping/bind camping should all be part of the PVP experience. Using server population as a argument against no rule set is dumb, seeing as most people coming onto the server "should/would" already know what the deal is.

It also gives GM's more time to focus on hackers/exploits, which is more important to server population then trains/corpse camp/bind camp.( all in my opinion are valid tactics)

(fucking half a sleep, hope that makes sense)

[naez]

I guarantee if training is allowed it will get QQ'd away faster than item loot does everytime we try that

[Chanur]

The problem with the box wasn't rules, it was the rampant hacking and the fact the posted rules didn't apply to certain people and groups.

That said considering the silly shit you can be banned for here the less GMs have to be involved the better.

[georgie]

just RZ this shit and everyones happy

[Titanuk]

sz rules fine with me

[Macken]

SZ rules, complete with leaderboard minus trains = $

[Envious]

Pudge, your a fucking idiot.

The problem with VZ / TZ pop was not the rules, or the lack there of, it was the rules being applied differently to different groups, or even SEEMINGLY applied differently to different groups. Easy fix, nix the rules.

And vaccines are only best for the population in the short term. They remove the chances for a disease etc from a generation, dump a small % of mental retardation / autism in as a result, and you get a somewhat stable birth / infant survival rate. Where as with no vaccines, the weak die off, and the best of the genetic code is passed on.

So your analogy holds, your the genetic backwash/leftovers that needs to be poured down the drain.

[Chanur]

Oh and leader boards are fucking gay.

[lethdar]

Negative points do not disuade griefing, this was obvious on sullon zek as well.

Allowing sullon zek style training will be really fun for a select few. While I'd love to get back to some good ol' res box selo training, I find it hard to believe that p99s will be able to handle that sort of grief and the population will suffer immensely.

[Pudge]

Pudge, your a fucking idiot.
It's happened too many times.. try "you're" if you're trying to make someone else look stupid.


The problem with VZ / TZ pop was not the rules, or the lack there of, it was the rules being applied differently to different groups, or even SEEMINGLY applied differently to different groups. Easy fix, nix the rules.

And vaccines are only best for the population in the short term. They remove the chances for a disease etc from a generation, dump a small % of mental retardation / autism in as a result, and you get a somewhat stable birth / infant survival rate. Where as with no vaccines, the weak die off, and the best of the genetic code is passed on.

So your analogy holds, your the genetic backwash/leftovers that needs to be poured down the drain.

And yea the analogy hold pretty well.. don't be retarded.. we are not growing a new gene pool on red99.. we are not trying to WEED OUT ppl from the server.. we are trying to fucking attract them.

[Envious]

Pudge, what killed the VZ / TZ server when there were 300+ chars logged in every night?

And picking at grammar when you cant make a valid point is like the worst player in a group saying "u mad?" as they fail and wipe the group over and over. Its just an admission of failure.

[pasi]

Having an unenforceable rulebook will run people off the server quicker than having no rules (sans hacking).

And if you think Fraps covers this...
http://i54.tinypic.com/2cshz10.jpg

[Envious]

And yea the analogy hold pretty well.. don't be retarded.. we are not growing a new gene pool on red99.. we are not trying to WEED OUT ppl from the server.. we are trying to fucking attract them.

Also... you should have used either, "that analogy held" or "holds". And those are not even remotely correct uses of ellipses. L2use commas. Or be less of a grammar douche when you fail at making points.

I would call you a moron, but have already called you an idiot, so that is moving in the wrong direction.

So again, I ask, PUDGE, what killed the 300+ pop VZ/TZ?




Edit: Typed in "close" instead of "correct"... fucking hell.

[lethdar]

Having an unenforceable rulebook will run people off the server quicker than having no rules (sans hacking).

And if you think Fraps covers this...
http://i54.tinypic.com/2cshz10.jpg

From what I understand, p99 logs are fairly exhaustive and can actually tell who agros a mob first. Training was worth the risk on vztz because they couldn't tell unless there was fraosed evidence. Even then, sacrificing a 8 hour to 50 character for raid loots was worth it.

On p99, risking your months invested character for one mob becomes a much more serious deal, particularly when the first few offenders are made examples of in a public manner.

I really don't think you understand what the server will be like with sullon rules allowed. It doesn't matter how big your raid is, nothing will stop us. 100 person raids failed to survive dedicated 2 man train teams on live, what makes you think it will be any different here.

PS this wont only be raids. Its just as easy to get your training jollys setting up res boxes and hitting sol b / guk / permafrost and watching dozens of people lose massive experience (and it will suck hard for those people, as xp actually is hard to get here).

[naez]

what killed the VZ / TZ server when there were 300+ chars logged in every night?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2475/3763230358_def0f2c7c5_o.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh4/estrang87/EQ000433.jpg

[wehrmacht]

Why so many Heresy hackers

[naez]

this 2

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/1858/eq000053s.png

[Pudge]

Also... you should have used either, "that analogy held" or "holds". And those are not even remotely correct uses of ellipses. L2use commas. Or be less of a grammar douche when you fail at making points.

I would call you a moron, but have already called you an idiot, so that is moving in the wrong direction.

So again, I ask, PUDGE, what killed the 300+ pop VZ/TZ?




Edit: Typed in "close" instead of "correct"... fucking hell.

lol dude i'm obviously not trying to write an english paper. but what you typed wasn't even a syntax error - your mistake indicates that, in your brain, "your" and "you're" may be used interchangeably merely because they sound the same. (you get a free pass if english is your second language, but this is probably not the case) such errors of the brain should not be leaking out at the very moment you attempt to call other people idiots.. sorry, it just seemed appropriate to point it out in that instance. i did not point it out to refute your uber argument about why trains should be allowed.

we both know many things can kill a server. if you would like to list your opinion of all the problems with all the various iterations of vztz, and how they interacted to kill the server, go ahead yourself. however i doubt "trains were against the rules" would be on anyone else's list of why the server, after 4 years, finally died

[Pudge]

Pudge, what killed the VZ / TZ server when there were 300+ chars logged in every night?

And picking at grammar when you cant make a valid point is like the worst player in a group saying "u mad?" as they fail and wipe the group over and over. Its just an admission of failure.

also if it's an admission of failure why would you go ahead and do it.. RIGHT after making that statement?

[Heywood]

It's obvious that killed the vztz boxes. It was the hacking/wiping of the boxes. As a person who played in 3 of the 4 wipes, shit got old quickly. I think box 2.0 was the best.


When Cface, letsjoe, and lasher owned DL and had a headquarters.

When crucify started.

When heywood slain big Rexx and friedchicken for the first and only time in his garage box career.

[Vile]

It's obvious that killed the vztz boxes. It was the hacking/wiping of the boxes. As a person who played in 3 of the 4 wipes, shit got old quickly. I think box 2.0 was the best.


When Cface, letsjoe, and lasher owned DL and had a headquarters.

When crucify started.

When heywood slain big Rexx and friedchicken for the first and only time in his garage box career.

What about our epic 1v1 in FV? Probably one of my fav box fights.. I knew you or Pathin would be hunting me down...

[Heywood]

It was pretty epic bru. At least it was alot closer than our 8ui heresy fight in TT. You pretty much 2 shot me :(


I think my favorite crucify moment was when you, pathin, and I ganked Trance whilst they were trying to slay the dragon on DL. Good times.

[Arillious]

There should be no rules in place for this. Let the playerbase set the rules. If someone trains your guild. Corpse camp them until you fell they've learned their lesson. LNS is a privilege.

The bottom line is that mobs will be involved in pvp no matter how hard you try to avoid them. Let things play out as they will.

[Haul]

There should be no rules in place for this. Let the playerbase set the rules. If someone trains your guild. Corpse camp them until you fell they've learned their lesson. LNS is a privilege.

The bottom line is that mobs will be involved in pvp no matter how hard you try to avoid them. Let things play out as they will.

+1

[Envious]

There should be no rules in place for this. Let the playerbase set the rules. If someone trains your guild. Corpse camp them until you fell they've learned their lesson. LNS is a privilege.

The bottom line is that mobs will be involved in pvp no matter how hard you try to avoid them. Let things play out as they will.

^Exactly.


Pudge, are you high? Because quoting grammar rules, then failing to obey them, then making excuses for this... I mean, it takes all the fun out of even mocking you. And FYI, I type according to phonetics when not writing anything of importance. Thats why I type things like "fuk", and "your". Also, describing an example does not mean said example has just been employed by the person describing it... I mean really... your kinda making me sad man.

[lethdar]

The player base cannot enforce rules that will stop griefing. You're silly and dumb if you believe this to be a realistic way to discourage people from training your raid / sitting in crushbone and face fucking lvl 5s at lvl 50.

I mean, I'll have a ton of fun training non stop if that's allowed in the rules, so will the rest of a minority of the potential server population who is in to griefing (read, most old sullon zekers, some vztz), however, if you're looking for a server that will last a while and not have 80%+ of the server griefed off... well this obviously isn't the way to go about it.

[Foxx]

no rules need to exist, too many rules are fucking retarded

I remember playing on box 2.0, and we were raiding kael. some guy, i forget who it was, was running a huge train of giants onto our raid... well, me being the highly alert gr8 player i am, saw him commin a mile away and stopped the train.

how did i stop it? I rooted him (lol wehrmacht) -- moral of the story, i got a 3 day suspension for exp killing him

SO DUMB, hardcoded rules cant exist on a pvp box

[Pudge]

you guys should have a re-read of
From what I understand, p99 logs are fairly exhaustive and can actually tell who agros a mob first. Training was worth the risk on vztz because they couldn't tell unless there was fraosed evidence. Even then, sacrificing a 8 hour to 50 character for raid loots was worth it.

On p99, risking your months invested character for one mob becomes a much more serious deal, particularly when the first few offenders are made examples of in a public manner.

I really don't think you understand what the server will be like with sullon rules allowed. It doesn't matter how big your raid is, nothing will stop us. 100 person raids failed to survive dedicated 2 man train teams on live, what makes you think it will be any different here.

PS this wont only be raids. Its just as easy to get your training jollys setting up res boxes and hitting sol b / guk / permafrost and watching dozens of people lose massive experience (and it will suck hard for those people, as xp actually is hard to get here).

and
The player base cannot enforce rules that will stop griefing. You're silly and dumb if you believe this to be a realistic way to discourage people from training your raid / sitting in crushbone and face fucking lvl 5s at lvl 50.

I mean, I'll have a ton of fun training non stop if that's allowed in the rules, so will the rest of a minority of the potential server population who is in to griefing (read, most old sullon zekers, some vztz), however, if you're looking for a server that will last a while and not have 80%+ of the server griefed off... well this obviously isn't the way to go about it.

lethdar is not my favorite person (he got me pudged, bros :( ) but i will give respect where it is due. here is a man who knows how to train, can do it well, and would enjoy the hell out of it. but he does what is better for the server. he realizes that it is no fun training a population of 50. less fun for them (the ppl who leave) less fun for us (the ppl who would stay anyway).

i wish rogean and the staff had some way of knowing the history and reputation of the ppl posting here, which would help him discern who knows what they're talking about versus who doesn't. and who has the best interest of the server at heart vs ppl who really dont care.

[naez]

I guarantee if training is allowed it will get QQ'd away faster than item loot does everytime we try that

[Pudge]

and sorry for being so dogmatic on this point, but i really believe if training were allowed it would have the single biggest impact upon the success of the server.. more than loot 'n scoot policy, more than teams vs no teams, and yes.. even more than "should root land at 100 mr"

[Pudge]

I guarantee if training is allowed it will get QQ'd away faster than item loot does everytime we try that

lol naez, i *almost* had you quoted on my lethdar-post as well. it was there, typed out, and then i deleted it. i figured i should keep my post restricted to just those statements, lest i need to include explanations about how your 1-sentence-response should actually be acknowledged by rogean as the word of truth, based sheerly upon your reputation alone

[Pudge]

but actually i do hope you are right naez, and that, if the devs did make a mistake like that and let training be legal, that they would listen to the QQ and fix it quickly enough that half the population didnt already leave 4 weeks in

[Ruinous]

lololol @ no rules on original (RZ) pvp in '99.

Tell that to all the people that got warnings / suspensions for killing people from a distance while their victims tried to hide by guards for help.

On a side note, fuck target rings imo. I shall never again experience the fun of turning into a firepot with minor illusion and pwning face outside Felwithe.

[Pudge]

lololol @ no rules on original (RZ) pvp in '99.

Tell that to all the people that got warnings / suspensions for killing people from a distance while their victims tried to hide by guards for help.

On a side note, fuck target rings imo. I shall never again experience the fun of turning into a firepot with minor illusion and pwning face outside Felwithe.

yea man. also, names appear above you now even when you're in an illusion. used to not do that. i remember one of the highlights i had on sullon was me and my brother, both enchanters, were in evil territory (we were goods) trying to get the AC in south ro. some evils or neuts came in to hunt us. we both illusioned drybones, turned on WALK, instead of run, and fucking roamed the desert, while they literally ran circles around us, tracking. so great. they ran off thinking it was bugged or something, and we escaped.. minor illusion was the shit though, i remember carrying around all kinds of stuff to drop on the ground and illusion into.. mushrooms, leaves, etc. for all the different occasions. good times.

[Heywood]

yea man. also, names appear above you now even when you're in an illusion. used to not do that. i remember one of the highlights i had on sullon was me and my brother, both enchanters, were in evil territory (we were goods) trying to get the AC in south ro. some evils or neuts came in to hunt us. we both illusioned drybones, turned on WALK, instead of run, and fucking roamed the desert, while they literally ran circles around us, tracking. so great. they ran off thinking it was bugged or something, and we escaped.. minor illusion was the shit though, i remember carrying around all kinds of stuff to drop on the ground and illusion into.. mushrooms, leaves, etc. for all the different occasions. good times.

I remember doing that in qeynos too on rallos zek. I'd run to a wall and it would turn me into a one of those wall lamps. good times.

[Envious]

Player enforced rules were one of the binding parts of the community on the live PvP (team) servers.

Maybe thats one of the reasons that the community on TZ/VZ emu sucked so bad? And its not something you can expect to happen in any defined time frame, there simply has to be an understanding of zero GM intervention, and the players will form an actual community. Instead of 15 forum whores that kinda talk to each other.

[Envious]

also if it's an admission of failure why would you go ahead and do it.. RIGHT after making that statement?

Because you obviously seemed so interested in grammar... thought i could help you out.

Apparently I killed the thread~

3 fags are going to QQ this into unenforceable rules.

[lethdar]

Player enforced rules were one of the binding parts of the community on the live PvP (team) servers.

Maybe thats one of the reasons that the community on TZ/VZ emu sucked so bad? And its not something you can expect to happen in any defined time frame, there simply has to be an understanding of zero GM intervention, and the players will form an actual community. Instead of 15 forum whores that kinda talk to each other.

Player enforced rules were a binding part of whatever trash server you played on, not sullon zek, which has been the only example of a ruleless server in eq. Did community enforced rules stop whoever felt like it from training / griefing there? Sure as shit not, there's a reason sullon was the first zek server to wither away to almost nothing population wise.

All of your comparisons are based off of whatever you experienced on carebear zek, not sullon and not any of the various incarnations of pvp on eqemu. Your expectations of E-Honor spontaneously emerging after getting griefed enough is naive to the extreme and almost as retarded as you yourself seem to be.

It doesn't really matter, I'm sure GMs will have in mind already what the ruleset would be, and as naez says, everything goes training will be the quickest rule changed on a server if it does go live, but not quick enough to cost the server population. It's just personally I'd rather grief them once they have enough time invested to not simply quit immediately.

Lvl 1 clerics are serious business bros

[Xantille]

Lvl 1 clerics are serious business bros

Make sure it's a female so begging for money for Divine Aura is more effective.

[lethdar]

Make sure it's a female so begging for money for Divine Aura is more effective.

With the name honeytits, yes yes.

[naez]

it costs 4 silver is it that hard to loot a couple rat whisker or a rusty dagger bros??

[Heywood]

it costs 4 silver is it that hard to loot a couple rat whisker or a rusty dagger bros??

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=133801131

[naez]

i peed a little bit

[Darksinga]

Back to page 2 or 3 or whatever on this thread... About the whole thing about SZ was "real" eq pvp, or RZ, etc etc...

Each of the servers had a really different experience. SZ had training/kill any one you want and I'm sure people learned some shady tactics to win at pvp, but on VZ, you really got into the whole "EQ honor" of things. You didn't attack people on mobs, you didn't bring a full group for one person, and well, you simply fought with class.

Probably why I sucked at training when Zek merged and Hate was the best at training.

[wehrmacht]

Did community enforced rules stop whoever felt like it from training / griefing there? Sure as shit not, there's a reason sullon was the first zek server to wither away to almost nothing population wise.


You kinda left out the part about XP loss on death. I only died twice in PvP the entire time from levels 50-60 and it was still extremely slow leveling. If you took 2-3 xp deaths per day (which I'm sure many neuts and goods did), you would basically be leveling in reverse. That's got to be some kind of factor in why people quit.

[Xantille]

it costs 4 silver is it that hard to loot a couple rat whisker or a rusty dagger bros??

why strain yourself when you can /em blow someone for divine aura money?????? this gives you more time to DA train people.

[naez]

in my extensive begging career on naked female avatars i think slayin the skele is actually faster. BUT TO EACH HER OWN SIS

[Macken]

You kinda left out the part about XP loss on death. I only died twice in PvP the entire time from levels 50-60, because everyone else was still lvl 15. It sucks when you die twice to lvl 15's. If you took 2-3 xp deaths per day (which I'm sure many neuts and goods did), you would basically be leveling in reverse. That's got to be some kind of factor in why people quit.

Interesting

[Danien]

Player enforced rules were a binding part of whatever trash server you played on, not sullon zek, which has been the only example of a ruleless server in eq. Did community enforced rules stop whoever felt like it from training / griefing there? Sure as shit not, there's a reason sullon was the first zek server to wither away to almost nothing population wise.

All of your comparisons are based off of whatever you experienced on carebear zek, not sullon and not any of the various incarnations of pvp on eqemu. Your expectations of E-Honor spontaneously emerging after getting griefed enough is naive to the extreme and almost as retarded as you yourself seem to be.

It doesn't really matter, I'm sure GMs will have in mind already what the ruleset would be, and as naez says, everything goes training will be the quickest rule changed on a server if it does go live, but not quick enough to cost the server population. It's just personally I'd rather grief them once they have enough time invested to not simply quit immediately.

Lvl 1 clerics are serious business bros

Seconded; people were douchebags and exploited the full potential of the ruleset for as long as I played on Sullon Zek (Start -> Omens of War)

[Envious]

I dont know what you think the experience on Tallon was like, but there was more than ample training. I used to log on Wynch and bring VS to the entrance groups. For hours.

The point is this, unenforceable rules work less well than no rules.

Who is to "define" training? What EQ PvP does not include a NPC at some point? Who pops their fraps key and comes to the forums first? When does the first cry of favoritism happen after a suspect ban? Who makes those judgement calls? What about the first time someone realizes they aggro'd the mob they are fraps'ing and posting as a train? Do they get banned out of stupidity? Do bans / trains get defined by forums faggots and a vote? Lol

Hate to break it to you clowns, but Sullon was not some bastion of hardcore gamers, it simply the drainage of all the trash from Tallon / Rallos / Vallon. I was a shitbag on Tallon, but when I asked for LnS, it was always granted. Because they were happy to get rid of me, and they KNEW I was done at that point.

Dunno, maybe all the decent players are gone and R99 will need its hand held by a never ended and rotating supply of CS GMs. I can promise you, Sirken will not be there for 4 years to wipe your asses for you.

[Xantille]

I dont know what you think the experience on Tallon was like, but there was more than ample training. I used to log on Wynch and bring VS to the entrance groups. For hours.

The point is this, unenforceable rules work less well than no rules.

Who is to "define" training? What EQ PvP does not include a NPC at some point? Who pops their fraps key and comes to the forums first? When does the first cry of favoritism happen after a suspect ban? Who makes those judgement calls? What about the first time someone realizes they aggro'd the mob they are fraps'ing and posting as a train? Do they get banned out of stupidity? Do bans / trains get defined by forums faggots and a vote? Lol

Hate to break it to you clowns, but Sullon was not some bastion of hardcore gamers, it simply the drainage of all the trash from Tallon / Rallos / Vallon. I was a shitbag on Tallon, but when I asked for LnS, it was always granted. Because they were happy to get rid of me, and they KNEW I was done at that point.

Dunno, maybe all the decent players are gone and R99 will need its hand held by a never ended and rotating supply of CS GMs. I can promise you, Sirken will not be there for 4 years to wipe your asses for you.

Voodoo, is that you brew?

Honestly, rules of questionable enforceability are better than no rules, and here's why: the no rules experiment was tried on VZTZ. It failed spectacularly, and people cried for the rules back after a few days of trains and people being unable to get pixels.

At least w/ the threat of bans/suspensions for training, hacking etc there will be some kind of deterrent mechanism whereby people will lose their characters if they consistently do bad shit. Sure, fraps of trains are judgment calls, but it's better than nothing.

[Lasher]

I typically try to adhere to the rules but on 1.0 when they took the rules out the first thing i did was train heresy in fear. Its something I think should be against the rules and its something i wouldnt want done to me.

[Envious]

Voodoo and I do not remotely sound like each other.

Its amazing to me how you people can be clamoring for the exact thing that broke the shit box, GM intervention.

Honestly, you all sound like you should just forget a R99, roll on P99, and duel for camps.

[Envious]

So, just out of curiosity, what does that mean for corpse flopping to a friendly?

Will that be "legal"? Or do you have to ask in zone who is near the path you will take, and then give 3 warnings before beginning the flop?

Would mobs pathing back from someone training to a zone exit be a train? Or what about a bad pull? is that now a "train"? Trying to break a camp, is that a "train"?

What about if you are trying to simply zone out, and fail, that always results in a train? Can people not train out of instances now?

Trying to run from a melee, and you aggro some shit, someone heals said melee, crap aggros, illegal?

You fight someone, fear an NPC off you, is that legal?

This is fucking stupid, I could spend all day coming up with ways to hit the "training" gray area. Introducing judgement calls is beyond fucking idiotic. If they implement a rule set for R99, I hope it works. But we all know it will not. Someone will get banned, QQ will ensue, GM favoritism b/c they think someone else aggro'd it first. Look at logs, omg, a completely different person aggro'd it, new ban inc... more QQ.

I dont think the Project 1999 dev team has enough ABA certified lawyers to write a foolproof set of rules. Your asking for shit down the road, and drama.

[Xantille]

Voodoo and I do not remotely sound like each other.

Its amazing to me how you people can be clamoring for the exact thing that broke the shit box, GM intervention.

Honestly, you all sound like you should just forget a R99, roll on P99, and duel for camps.

O my fault, I forgot Wynch was a slut character in PDM.

I'm all for having no rules, but the majority will not be. Not all trainers are created equal -- some people are a lot better at it than others. No rules on the shit box would have led to a much quicker server death.

[Macken]

There will be less drama with no training, than with training.

There will be less population with training, than no training.

Don't know anyone who would debate these.

[naez]

Well more drama is a +, so now I am torn

[redghosthunter]

Well more drama is a +, so now I am torn

I know right. Normal EQ life needs MORE color.

[naez]

u,mymain,etc
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/xparalyzedxheart87/OhNoYouDidntBish.jpg

[Envious]

O my fault, I forgot Wynch was a slut character in PDM.

I'm all for having no rules, but the majority will not be. Not all trainers are created equal -- some people are a lot better at it than others. No rules on the shit box would have led to a much quicker server death.

Only 4 ppl had access to Wynch, 2 of them brothers. You still mad Wynch was above you in the tanking order or someshit?

Some people are better at PvP than others, so remove pvp?

There being a higher pop without training as opposed to with it is debatable. Remove all the GM intervention from VZ/TZ and it would have lasted alot longer IMO (sans the zonecmd routine, which, if not for possible GM favoritism would have never occurred either... GG GMs.).

Personally I am simply advocating a more live like experience, and attempting to avoid the problems of VZ/TZ that ran off DROVES of the population. Which at the time, was constant qq'ing shit about GM favoritism, and people catching bans based upon hearsay and a GM /zone'ing into a plane after 2 trains and banning the third.

The server, to truly attract and retain players, needs to be stable. Period. GM enforced PnP will not add to stability. You will constantly have people trying to get others banned, or trying to redefine "training", or when one GM burns out and a new one comes in you will have a different interpretation of events.


And by drama, I meant forum drama. Training, I would think, would create more in game drama, and some QQ / "I wanna fight you IRL" posts. Subjective banning would create more forum drama and people flipping out on the forums with the same shit we have heard for 3? 4? years on VZTZ.

I just dont see how you guys can be so blind to think GM intervention will help with longevity of a EQ PvP server.




Imo, the only thing, ONLY THING, people should get banned for is blatant exploiting / hacking. I personally, will not waste the time on a server, where it takes months to hit level cap, and can be banned on the subjective whim of a GM. Esp when I know the causes for VZ/TZ declining, are not being avoided.

[Macken]

I just dont see how you guys can be so blind to think GM intervention will help with longevity of a EQ PvP server.
.

If Gm intervention is code for "no training" then you are sorely confused my friend.

[Dojii]

macken are u the enchanter from Hate

[Pudge]

Only 4 ppl had access to Wynch, 2 of them brothers. You still mad Wynch was above you in the tanking order or someshit?

Some people are better at PvP than others, so remove pvp?

There being a higher pop without training as opposed to with it is debatable. Remove all the GM intervention from VZ/TZ and it would have lasted alot longer IMO (sans the zonecmd routine, which, if not for possible GM favoritism would have never occurred either... GG GMs.).

Personally I am simply advocating a more live like experience, and attempting to avoid the problems of VZ/TZ that ran off DROVES of the population. Which at the time, was constant qq'ing shit about GM favoritism, and people catching bans based upon hearsay and a GM /zone'ing into a plane after 2 trains and banning the third.

The server, to truly attract and retain players, needs to be stable. Period. GM enforced PnP will not add to stability. You will constantly have people trying to get others banned, or trying to redefine "training", or when one GM burns out and a new one comes in you will have a different interpretation of events.


And by drama, I meant forum drama. Training, I would think, would create more in game drama, and some QQ / "I wanna fight you IRL" posts. Subjective banning would create more forum drama and people flipping out on the forums with the same shit we have heard for 3? 4? years on VZTZ.

I just dont see how you guys can be so blind to think GM intervention will help with longevity of a EQ PvP server.




Imo, the only thing, ONLY THING, people should get banned for is blatant exploiting / hacking. I personally, will not waste the time on a server, where it takes months to hit level cap, and can be banned on the subjective whim of a GM. Esp when I know the causes for VZ/TZ declining, are not being avoided.

bro, i like your passion, but basically everyone is done listening to you in this thread. GMs will have to make decisions. if you're afraid of getting banned, then dont do the shit that will put you in jeopardy.

"Remove all the GM intervention from VZ/TZ and it would have lasted alot longer" -- this is absolutely false, server would have lasted 6 months instead of 4 years.

[Envious]

bro, i like your passion, but basically everyone is done listening to you in this thread. GMs will have to make decisions. if you're afraid of getting banned, then dont do the shit that will put you in jeopardy.

"Remove all the GM intervention from VZ/TZ and it would have lasted alot longer" -- this is absolutely false, server would have lasted 6 months instead of 4 years.

Right, because nobody left b/c of cries of GM favoritism. As far as putting ones self in jeopardy, you either didnt read or didnt think about the post I had earlier. Again, trying to drive a point home to someone that is simply not able to understand it is futile.

Its not going to be a big of a deal to me as it would be to you either way, I simply dont have tons of time to invest in any game atm. Like Xant, school is chewing my ass up for the next 6months to a year. I am only advocating what I know to be true.

[Envious]

If Gm intervention is code for "no training" then you are sorely confused my friend.

GM intervention = Everything besides game mechanics. So the only times GM's should be hassled is for bugs, exploits, hacks, 3rd party issues.

Not CRs, not CC, not bind camping, not training. Those were the tools you used to make people understand things in EQ, not things to be petitioned over.

[Macken]

GM intervention = Everything besides game mechanics. So the only times GM's should be hassled is for bugs, exploits, hacks, 3rd party issues.

Not CRs, not CC, not bind camping, not training. Those were the tools you used to make people understand things in EQ, not things to be petitioned over.

Gm's should be appraised of bugs, exploits, hacks and trains.

Training was the tool you used to run the population into the ground and marginalize those classes who couldn't train well.

Maybe everyone doesn't want to play a training class.

[Envious]

Gm's should be appraised of bugs, exploits, hacks and trains.

Training was the tool you used to run the population into the ground and marginalize those classes who couldn't train well.

Maybe everyone doesn't want to play a training class.

My main on live was a non training class, and I rarely got trained on live.

My main on VZ/TZ was only a training class for like 3 months? All the rest of the time it was not, and I rarely got trained.

As far as I can tell, it being allowed didnt result in more or less trains. Maybe your perspective is skewed from playing on a cesspool (Sullon) on live, and another cesspool on the EMU?

[Macken]

Maybe.

On those 2 servers, pixels were srz bznz.

I'm thinking it's gonna be srz on this server too. Just a guess though.

[Giovanni]

Sullon was awesome, but training will kill the population. It's similar to how the Discord rule set is fun as hell, but it leads to rampant hacking.

The main advantage of having a fresh server is the players. Not many of those players are going to stick around if not even all of the vztz playerbase could have handled the sz ruleset.

[Envious]

I guess its just a matter of the means.

I prefer the server's population police itself. If someone trains you, you train them 3x as long and much. Or CC them until you get bored when you can. Eventually someone's rep will make the server un-playable for them (esp on a lower pop server like R99 will be) if they shit in the sand box too much.

You want someone to QQ and post threads to, an outside authority, that can make decisions for you and be your hand holder. Its understandable.

[Macken]

I guess its just a matter of the means.

I prefer the server's population police itself. If someone trains you, you train them 3x as long and much. Or CC them until you get bored when you can. Eventually someone's rep will make the server un-playable for them (esp on a lower pop server like R99 will be) if they shit in the sand box too much.

You want someone to QQ and post threads to, an outside authority, that can make decisions for you and be your hand holder. Its understandable.

You are playing in the ymca league bro.

Up here in the big leagues, training is a way of life. You either call a foul for it, or things will get out of hand and the fans will quit buying tickets.

[Envious]

Your still playing the PeeWee league, with parents reffing. Me and the other big boys want to take the game down to Rucker.

We dont play for the fans, we play for the game, son. No blood no foul, blood = blood. Tell your parents to let you out of the bubble.

[Macken]

Fail.

[Amuk]

Macken gona enjoy Uthgaard tellen him who wins pvp fights. Clearly never played p99 =)

[Amuk]

I should clear this up, devs of p99 are great and do an insane amount of work for free, but they clearly don't have patience for stupid shit.

I was doing alligators in CT with my buddy and two guys came and said we had to split the camp. We Ks'd their mobs obviously since it was our camp and the monk brought a shitload of mobs trained on us and killed us. We petitioned and got banned for KSing, and for wasting Uthgaards time - pretty random shit and red99 would be no diff.

Least no rules I know what to expect

[Macken]

I will not engage in discussions that denigrate the staff's efforts.

[Amuk]

Which is dodging the whole point, how can you ask for people to moderate rules that usually have a wide range of perspectives when you don't even know the people that will be doing it.

[Macken]

Which is dodging the whole point, how can you ask for people to moderate rules that usually have a wide range of perspectives when you don't even know the people that will be doing it.

Because i played on SZ and know the alternative.

I understand that some trains could be misjudged. But the alternative is less population, I believe.

The class balance was skewed on SZ towards trainers. Training brings a new dynamic that not many players have experienced full scale or want to experience. It becomes a go to first tactic, not a last resort one as some people here think.

If there are no rules, i have excellent experience. I would just rather there be more of you to fight.

[Envious]

Nobody cares that you played one the worst Zek server. Apparently your EQ experience has been limited to the cesspool Zek from Live, and a shit sand box EMU server.

Neither of which qualifies you for anything. Also, it does not matter what you believe, fact does not require belief.

Again, for all the fucking idiot SZ players, NO PVP SERVER HAD FUCKING PLAY NICE POLICIES. Jesus fucking christ, if you played on SZ, and that is your retort to everything, you should not even be allowed input on any thread of merit.

[fiegi]

Nobody cares that you played one the worst Zek server. Apparently your EQ experience has been limited to the cesspool Zek from Live, and a shit sand box EMU server.

Neither of which qualifies you for anything. Also, it does not matter what you believe, fact does not require belief.

Again, for all the fucking idiot SZ players, NO PVP SERVER HAD FUCKING PLAY NICE POLICIES. Jesus fucking christ, if you played on SZ, and that is your retort to everything, you should not even be allowed input on any thread of merit.

deep breaths please:(:(

[Haul]

Hes right about the play nice policies being non-existant no matter which of the 3 servers you played on. Its red99, not carebear99.

[Envious]

deep breaths please:(:(

Lol, so I have this fucking water buffalo that sits behind me in AcctII... she sounds like she has fucking emphysema, can never catch her breath, and always breaths out of her fucking mouth... Fucking hate that bitch. Sorry that just came to mind when I read that...

[Macken]

Yeah same thing here when i read your posts

[Macken]

Im sorry you have SZ envy.

[Pudge]

Nobody cares that you played one the worst Zek server. Apparently your EQ experience has been limited to the cesspool Zek from Live, and a shit sand box EMU server.

Neither of which qualifies you for anything. Also, it does not matter what you believe, fact does not require belief.

Again, for all the fucking idiot SZ players, NO PVP SERVER HAD FUCKING PLAY NICE POLICIES. Jesus fucking christ, if you played on SZ, and that is your retort to everything, you should not even be allowed input on any thread of merit.

false. SZ was the only server with 0 PnP. please see page 28 of this Kunark era guide, endorsed by Verant and The Station. be sure to read the intro on p25, which states the policy is official. check page 2 for credits, listing verant employees. (note: this guide was written before sullon existed. so it does not mention sullon.)
http://www.scribd.com/doc/53542242/3/Play-Nice-Policies

also, i remember getting in trouble for trains on rallos.

finally, if you didnt play sullon, and didnt play vztz (or got griefed off with a total playtime of 50 days) what makes you believe you know better than the vets? you obv. are delusional if you think the players will "police themselves" into preventing trains. you have 0 experience on a sullon-like server.. yet try to tell us all what an emu-sullon would be like. well... the ppl who actually played sullon, and the ppl who actually played pvp emu, are (surprise!) the best judges of what sullon-emu would be like

[Envious]

Thats cute Pudge, someone showed you how to use Google.

First, not classic~

Second, and this is in the letter from Gordon to Prima (Which Prima wrote the PnP policy section of the book, all the credits for Verant / Sony employees mentions class descriptions and walk throughs...)

The PnP policies were designed to curtail a specific portion of the population of EQ and "They are the ones who claim ownership of servers, zones, or spawns, and cause or threaten harm to anyone" Gordon Wrinn, regarding PnP... sounds like pvp.

Grats again on figuring out how to get to the 2nd page of results when using google.

[Envious]

Im sorry you have SZ envy.

I dont know of a single quality player that left TZ for SZ... Thats like saying, "Sorry you have envy over the guy banging the fat chick working at Denny's".

[Envious]

And btw, a fucking play time of 50 days on the EMU box would mean 8 hours a day, everyday, for about half a year. I dunno what my PT was on the EMU box, but I was there for 3 years.

And again, you miserable stupid fuck, there were no enforced PnP during any time I played on Tallon Zek. So I played a Sullon "like" experience, only dislike it in the form of a level range for pvp and there were teams.

[Littlegyno]

Nice, three Envious posts in a row. Kid is obviously mad.

[JayDee]

At the beginning, TZ had a no training policy that was enforced by GMs. There was also a no cursing policy apparently cause my first char got permabanned for that shit in 2000.

[Foxx]

yea i had an account banned in 01 for cursing / racism... qq

[Haul]

Nice, three Envious posts in a row. Kid is obviously mad.

lmao

[wehrmacht]

I dont know of a single quality player that left TZ for SZ...

Already beat Kamzan's team in test of tactics and I'm an SZ player. Thread over.

[Envious]

Refusing to edit posts, so sometimes there are ones in quick succession.

I dunno what you guys did to get banned on the live Zek servers... we all did some pretty ruthless shit and the only time I heard from a GM was when I was /q'ing a pet on some guy and calling him all kinds of racial slurs... then I told the GM the guy talked shit while on a CR, and the GM watched me CC him for another 2hrs while bullshitting...

Then there was the time the head GM got PK'd in EJ, but I didnt actually talk to the guy.

[Macken]

And btw, a fucking play time of 50 days on the EMU box would mean 8 hours a day, everyday, for about half a year. I dunno what my PT was on the EMU box, but I was there for 3 years.

And again, you miserable stupid fuck, there were no enforced PnP during any time I played on Tallon Zek. So I played a Sullon "like" experience, only dislike it in the form of a level range for pvp and there were teams.

TZ was just like SZ.- Envious 2011.

[Cancerface]

For the record Macken was a chanter with bazaar gear and the only pvp i remember him doing was on his SK, which consisted of afking in PoT until death touch was up when that god awful pvp leader board came out. Pretty much a perma scrub who never took part in any real battles on SZ. I’m sure he probably got into hate at some point in time like anyone else who played on the server long enough.

No rules is the way to go for the sanity of the staff. Allowing training does bring a new element into pvp, but its entirely controllable as long as hacking is deterred. Trains can easily be stopped by competent, organized PvPer's as long as the gibson isn’t being hacked.


As long as we are all stroking each other off here believing that the input on this forum is being considered by the developers I recommend to said developers to be very wary of any input that the fucking retards who ruined vztz have to offer.

[keto]

I dunno what you guys did to get banned on the live Zek servers... we all did some pretty ruthless shit and the only time I heard from a GM was when I was /q'ing a pet on some guy and calling him all kinds of racial slurs... then I told the GM the guy talked shit while on a CR, and the GM watched me CC him for another 2hrs while bullshitting...


On RZ during Kunark/Velious most GM interventions were from someone knowing a GM personally. I know some players on RZ were guides or former GM's on blue servers and had connections to GM staff that way. It definitely resulted in more than one GM assisted corpse recovery after being shit on for hours. Otherwise you'd have to rack up a pretty impressive petition count to have a GM get involved.

[Macken]

Some people on forums don't like people riding their nuts. I on the other hand like fleas riding on my fuzzy wolf nuts.

Macken only wore gear he looted, and yes years later when bazaar came out, you could buy Macken's entire gear set there. Yet, he still took on and rocked everyone despite the gear disadvantage.

The old DT sk wasn't even on SZ. That was Zek. That you wormoct?

Winner of SZ ya'll.

[Envious]

No rules is the way to go for the sanity of the staff. Allowing training does bring a new element into pvp, but its entirely controllable as long as hacking is deterred. Trains can easily be stopped by competent, organized PvPer's as long as the gibson isn’t being hacked.


^This

Sorry Macken, about 90% of the quality players on TZ quit when or before SZ came out. I still have not heard of a single person I knew from live that was good, going to SZ~

Your the king of the shit pile. And I take CFace's word > yours on what you were on SZ.

I need to just type up a standard Macken response so I can copy + paste it whenever you post, because your shit never deviates from "I played on SZ, king ya'll, but now I need rules and people to hold my hand".

[Envious]

On RZ during Kunark/Velious most GM interventions were from someone knowing a GM personally. I know some players on RZ were guides or former GM's on blue servers and had connections to GM staff that way. It definitely resulted in more than one GM assisted corpse recovery after being shit on for hours. Otherwise you'd have to rack up a pretty impressive petition count to have a GM get involved.

Like I said, we did some pretty ruthless shit... never caught any GM action for it.

During classic, Wynch and I /q'd mage pets on a guy that was AFK at his bind in Sro for like 6hours straight... de-leveled him from 50 to 43. Never heard a word from any staff about it.

The good ole' days.

[Doors]

Seriously who gives a shit. Blue servers were more hardcore anyway. I never fought a player on a pvp server that was more difficult than a dragon.

Get good nubfucks.

[Doors]

Whats more intimidating? You decide:

This:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/scenery2/necropolis-zlandicar.jpg

Or this fag:

http://www.miker.com/images/EQPhajTm.jpg

Actually it's not even a debate, I know I'm right yet again on this issue. Pve > pvp. Damn I basically run these pvp forums with my vast superior intelligence.

[wehrmacht]

Probably ZLandicar + a bunch of retards trying to kill you and train you at the same time

[Littlegyno]

Yea trying to kill Zland with a bunch of nerds attacking your clrs is pretty hard brew.

[Pudge]

shit i wish there were fraps of it, but i remember an epic battle over zland on vztz.. big numbers and a very even fight. ppl died on both sides till i looked around and realized there were literally 4 ppl left in the zone and those were ours. fought right outside zland's room. no training occurred, just a really good fight

[naez]

that is 1 sexy gnome


but I will agree that most NPCs, designed to be defeated, are harder to kill than 98% of the scrubs who play, like Doors <Shitty Fucking Band>

[Envious]

Going to restate my first post.

"Rules are for fucking faggots."

And how the fuck do you AE Sky Fire with your client crashing when you aggro too many mobs?

SZ was for the rejects that couldnt hack it on the pvp servers with communities.

[Haul]

Rules are for fucking faggots.

I support this.

[tarran]

macken, highkeep grief chief
i fucking hated trying to find you in highpass with all those houses and shit