The Wiki & certain Riot members

[Baler]

Certain members of Aftermath & Riot who have taken it upon themselves to break the wiki rules by modifying images and text of preexisting server firsts or similar files or pages. Please be aware that this is a violation of the wiki rules and you can be banned from wiki access if a wiki admin see's fit.

I ask these people to please be respectful and if they wish to contribute do so in an appropriate way. This stands for any member of any guild who wish to contribute. Several aftermath and riot members edits had to be undone. I sincerely hope this isn't a trend.

This is not a rants and flames thread.

Edit: Title changed to more accurate display the reason for this thread.
There is proof in the wiki history of what i've stated in this thread.

[zodium]

imagine caring this much about competitively speedrunning the beta server for an emulated mass multiplayer online rooleplaying game from 1999

[Tyronius of Midnight]

Imagine caring so much about said 1999 dwarf/elf/orc role-playing game to where you need to make a profile of your online avatar and paste it in your signature for all to see.

[ajohnymous]

I would like to point out that certain members of AM were also taking it upon themselves to break the wiki rules by modifying text of preexisting server firsts.

While it was entertaining to watch this unfold under Server Firsts, I think maliciously modifying Wikipedia under any category on the internet goes against the whole idea of the website.

[Baler]

I would like to point out that certain members of AM were also taking it upon themselves to break the wiki rules by modifying text of preexisting server firsts.

This is true and there is proof.
I bring up riot due to recent incidents.
I don't mean to drag riot as a whole under the bus but it is their members who lately continue to have edits undone for the reason stated in the op.

Both Aftermath & Riot need to inform their members not to break project 1999 wiki rules.

[fortior]

as long as it keeps them off the street I'm all for it, OP. nobody reads that page anyway.

[Baylan295]

This is true. However not as of late and much less in a short period of time.
I don't mean to drag riot as a whole under the bus but it is their members who continue to have edits undone for the reason stated in the op.

Have some fun, man. Don’t be so serious.

[zodium]

Imagine caring so much about said 1999 dwarf/elf/orc role-playing game to where you need to make a profile of your online avatar and paste it in your signature for all to see.

thank you for the backhanded compliment? truth be told i could never draw something like that, though. it was a beautiful gift. :o

[Baler]

Updated the title to display more accurately of the problem I state in this thread.

[baakss]

This is definitely NOT a rants and flames post guys. This is ultra super serious.

[Baler]

This is definitely NOT a rants and flames post guys. This is ultra super serious.

This is not a rants and flames thread. Unless certain members of the p99 forums decide to break the forum rules and rant or flame outside of the rants and flames sub forum.

I suggest if you wish to RnF take it to the appropriate section.

I am likely The pot calling the kettle black on this but it doesn't make it any less true.

[Freakish]

Flame lick you. I'll do what I want.

[Cen]

Galahad is probably rolling over in his grave thanks to this.

You should be ashamed.

[Endonde]

The Project 1999 Wiki is not maintained by the P99 staff and may contain inaccuracies between the emulator server, forums, live EverQuest, and reality.

This is a wiki for a reason. Anyone can contribute (this means YOU!) If you see something that is inaccurate or can be improved, don't ask that it be fixed--just improve it.

[Baler]

The Project 1999 Wiki is not maintained by the P99 staff and may contain inaccuracies between the emulator server, forums, live EverQuest, and reality.

This is a wiki for a reason. Anyone can contribute (this means YOU!) If you see something that is inaccurate or can be improved, don't ask that it be fixed--just improve it.

This is true but does not address the point of this thread. Please read the original post carefully. This is not an issue of people contributing, I encourage people to contribute. This is an issue of false information and defacing the wiki's accuracy. Also the wiki has it's own admins and moderators.

Wiki admins have stated in the past that wiki users are not allowed to change non-copyrighted texts or images that already exists and have been established as accurate.
example: Server first images or texts.

[Endonde]

This is true but does not address the point of this thread. Please read the original post carefully. This is not an issue of people contributing, I encourage people to contribute. This is an issue of false information and defacing the wiki's accuracy. Also the wiki has it's own admins and moderators.

Wiki admins have stated in the past that wiki users are not allowed to change non-copyrighted texts or images that already exists and have been established as accurate.
example: Server first images or texts.

Fix it, or stop caring about it. The server first shit is self policing anyway, and it always reverts back to a semi accurate state after the trolls get bored.

[Danth]

What exactly are these people having edit wars over?

[Baler]

What exactly are these people having edit wars over?

The most common problem is uploading an image of their character + guild tag with an item. To replace an existing image of someone else with said item. Changing the text to claim they were the first <guild name> person to get that item. Replacing the server first text.

There are also some other incidences where they'd change server first text to their guild name first. I believe in an attempt to dance around the rules but blatantly breaking the rules of the wiki.

[Pyrrhica]

Can you name some examples of images changed?

[zodium]

The most common problem is uploading an image of their character + guild tag with an item. To replace an existing image of someone else with said item. Changing the text to claim they were the first <guild name> person to get that item. Replacing the server first text.

There are also some other incidences where they'd change server first text to their guild name first. I believe in an attempt to dance around the rules but blatantly breaking the rules of the wiki.

just stop tracking server firsts, which is pointless and has nothing to do with classic anyway

[Chortles Snort|eS]

imagine giving a flying fay gate over a server "first" on project 1999 20 years later

(LOL)

[Jimjam]

just stop tracking server firsts, which is pointless and has nothing to do with classic anyway

Have to agree, there are no firsts; its all a rehash. All server firsts encourage is toxicity.

[Wonkie]

Some are also vandalizing fashion pages with unrelated images

https://wiki.project1999.com/Emerald_Dragonscale_Tunic

[Mblake81]

toxicity

https://i.imgur.com/KosoaW1.gif

[FungusTrooper]

thank you for the backhanded compliment? truth be told i could never draw something like that, though. it was a beautiful gift. :o

yea gat wishes he could draw like that

[aaezil]

Call the wiki police? I mean what are you gonna do?

[Endonde]

Some are also vandalizing fashion pages with unrelated images

https://wiki.project1999.com/Emerald_Dragonscale_Tunic

That's Loramin mostly, they added "Fashion" categories to each wiki page and then linked that to a seperate sheet where players can post screenshots of gear, then they add the category to a specific wiki page and it will have links to the screenshots on the fashion page.

But the categories are pretty broad, so when someone adds "Category: Plate" to a page it will show screenshots of every plate piece, and not just the piece that corresponds to the wiki page you are on.

[loramin]

That's Loramin mostly, they added "Fashion" categories to each wiki page and then linked that to a seperate sheet where players can post screenshots of gear, then they add the category to a specific wiki page and it will have links to the screenshots on the fashion page.

But the categories are pretty broad, so when someone adds "Category: Plate" to a page it will show screenshots of every plate piece, and not just the piece that corresponds to the wiki page you are on.

That's mostly accurate, but not the last part. There are two potential categories: items with the same look, and items with the same look, but a different tint. The wiki shows the two separately (the header for the ones with the wrong tint says something like "Wrong Tint" in the header).

The only reason the second set is even shown is that we don't have anywhere close to 100% coverage of every fashion look with every gender and every race. So I figured, "if your gender/race isn't shown exactly for a given item, maybe you'd like to at least see how it looks in a different color?"

... or at least that's how it should work, and how it worked on the pages I tested. If you see it showing the wrong images anywhere please let me know so I can fix it :)

[Chortles Snort|eS]

Uh oh dA wiki police 🚔

[Endonde]

That's mostly accurate, but not the last part. There are two potential categories: items with the same look, and items with the same look, but a different tint. The wiki shows the two separately (the header for the ones with the wrong tint says something like "Wrong Tint" in the header).

The only reason the second set is even shown is that we don't have anywhere close to 100% coverage of every fashion look with every gender and every race. So I figured, "if your gender/race isn't shown exactly for a given item, maybe you'd like to at least see how it looks in a different color?"

... or at least that's how it should work, and how it worked on the pages I tested. If you see it showing the wrong images anywhere please let me know so I can fix it :)

I get exactly what you're trying to do, I just think it's really bad looking, and only serves to confuse people.

Unless you are going to show a screenshot of the specific item for every page I don't think it's worth doing. Should at least remove the screenshots from the wiki pages, it's pretty dumb when im searching an item page and scroll over the links and get assualted by a gigantic screenshot that has almost nothing to do with the item im searching for.

[Jimjam]

That's mostly accurate, but not the last part. There are two potential categories: items with the same look, and items with the same look, but a different tint. The wiki shows the two separately (the header for the ones with the wrong tint says something like "Wrong Tint" in the header).

The only reason the second set is even shown is that we don't have anywhere close to 100% coverage of every fashion look with every gender and every race. So I figured, "if your gender/race isn't shown exactly for a given item, maybe you'd like to at least see how it looks in a different color?"

... or at least that's how it should work, and how it worked on the pages I tested. If you see it showing the wrong images anywhere please let me know so I can fix it :)

One problem is it will display appearance on races (granted: illusions) that can't even equip the item. This can be misleading when there is a picture of a wood elf in chain so you think 'it will look like chain on my iksar' but actually it looks like lizardplate because the item is 'kunark chain'.

[branamil]

My elf slew the mystical beast first!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[loramin]

I get exactly what you're trying to do, I just think it's really bad looking, and only serves to confuse people.

Unless you are going to show a screenshot of the specific item for every page I don't think it's worth doing. Should at least remove the screenshots from the wiki pages, it's pretty dumb when im searching an item page and scroll over the links and get assualted by a gigantic screenshot that has almost nothing to do with the item im searching for.

Well if everyone feels that way we can remove them. But again, I think a lot of people would rather see what something looks like with the wrong color, than not have any idea at all what it looks like.

One problem is it will display appearance on races (granted: illusions) that can't even equip the item. This can be misleading when there is a picture of a wood elf in chain so you think 'it will look like chain on my iksar' but actually it looks like lizardplate because the item is 'kunark chain'.

This is not an issue I was even aware of. I'm not sure what we can really do about it, except ask that people not use illusions in fashion screenshots. Or if they do, be explicit and say so in the race section (eg. "Race: Wood Elf (Human with Illusion)") ... but really who is that image even going to be useful for? I'm leaning towards thinking we should just avoid them entirely.

[Zoggren]

https://i.imgur.com/KosoaW1.gif


+1 for Toxxie!

[area]

Well if everyone feels that way we can remove them.

The biggest problem I have with them is the annoying instant mouse over pop up that happens even in the white space, and the fact that it won't go away until i move my mouse off the pop up.

Example:
https://wiki.project1999.com/Ceremonial_Iksar_Chestplate

Fashion should be put at the very bottom, and if possible delay the mouse over popup. If not possible to delay it, disable pop up.

[Madbad]

The biggest problem I have with them is the annoying instant mouse over pop up that happens even in the white space, and the fact that it won't go away until i move my mouse off the pop up.

Example:
https://wiki.project1999.com/Ceremonial_Iksar_Chestplate

Fashion should be put at the very bottom, and if possible delay the mouse over popup. If not possible to delay it, disable pop up.

Christ that's annoying

[Albanwr]

The biggest problem I have with them is the annoying instant mouse over pop up that happens even in the white space, and the fact that it won't go away until i move my mouse off the pop up.

Example:
https://wiki.project1999.com/Ceremonial_Iksar_Chestplate

Fashion should be put at the very bottom, and if possible delay the mouse over popup. If not possible to delay it, disable pop up.

wow that is so bad...

[FungusTrooper]

I love the idea of keeping them, but yeah, make them clicky, not popup, and maybe get rid of the "wrong tint" stuff as we get more pictures of the real item.

[Croco]

Well if everyone feels that way we can remove them. But again, I think a lot of people would rather see what something looks like with the wrong color, than not have any idea at all what it looks like.



This is not an issue I was even aware of. I'm not sure what we can really do about it, except ask that people not use illusions in fashion screenshots. Or if they do, be explicit and say so in the race section (eg. "Race: Wood Elf (Human with Illusion)") ... but really who is that image even going to be useful for? I'm leaning towards thinking we should just avoid them entirely.

These pics look awful and definitely disrupt the look/feel/flow of the wiki. I would rather see no item than a supposedly similar looking item with a different tint. I removed a pic that was posted on shackle of steel because it was a pic of a random woodelf from a straight on view that was dual wielding whips and you couldn't even see the bracers the character was using, which I'm sure looked nothing like the actual graphic for a shackle of steel.

[Wonkie]

thank you Endonde et al. i don't like that implementation but appreciate the effort and intent.

[Endonde]

The biggest problem I have with them is the annoying instant mouse over pop up that happens even in the white space, and the fact that it won't go away until i move my mouse off the pop up.

Example:
https://wiki.project1999.com/Ceremonial_Iksar_Chestplate

Fashion should be put at the very bottom, and if possible delay the mouse over popup. If not possible to delay it, disable pop up.

Yea if you think that one is bad check out this one.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Rubicite_Breastplate

Not only do you have to dodge the monstrously sized pop up image for the Rubicite armor, but then there are 9 other pop up images that aren't rubicite at all.

[Arvan]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Rubicite_Breastplate

Those popups

Gawd

[loramin]

Yea if you think that one is bad check out this one.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Rubicite_Breastplate

Not only do you have to dodge the monstrously sized pop up image for the Rubicite armor, but then there are 9 other pop up images that aren't rubicite at all.

I see what you mean: the "collage" images are new, and much bigger than the previous images.

I've temporarily disabled the popovers for now. I will try to restore them, but only when I can find the time to do some size adjustments, to make sure they don't cover the screen like that.

Also I'll try to add some slight delay, so that you have to actually stay hovered over the link for half a second or so to see the image ... but I don't want to add too much delay, because part of the popover idea is to let people discover the images are there (without filling up the page with images, by showing all of them not as pop-overs).

[Endonde]

I see what you mean: the "collage" images are new, and much bigger than the previous images.

I've temporarily disabled the popovers for now. I will try to restore them, but only when I can find the time to do some size adjustments, to make sure they don't cover the screen like that.

Also I'll try to add some slight delay, so that you have to actually stay hovered over the link for half a second or so to see the image ... but I don't want to add too much delay, because part of the popover idea is to let people discover the images are there (without filling up the page with images, by showing all of them not as pop-overs).

Dude no one wants pop ups but you, I don't think many people even want the fashion stuff displayed unless it's displayed at the bottom in a neat way. The current system is ugly, and just makes the wiki pages look more cluttered, most people are only interested in seeing where an item drops, what mob drops it, and what it's worth.

[Argh]

The issue with the popover is that its set to display on hover of the li's which are set to display block so they take up the entire width of the container rather than the a's inside the li which could be set to inline/inline block.

The larger issue is that having screenshots to show what plate/chain/leather looks like on a race that isn't the actual item isn't really helpful. If you want to show screenshots of the actual item on different races that might be helpful.

Anyway, an accordion would probably be better for this, or a modal/lightbox triggered on click rather than on hover, since hover can be trigger by simply not moving your cursor as you scroll down the page. If you insist on using hover to trigger them, you should look into a hover-intent plugin.

[zodias]

Going to side track this conversation about web standards and ui.

Has female human plate always looked like straight up tits?

https://wiki.project1999.com/images/Rubicite.jpg

[Baler]

Going to side track this conversation about web standards and ui.

Has female human plate always looked like straight up tits?

https://wiki.project1999.com/images/Rubicite.jpg

I think that's enhanced due to how the light is hitting the armor.

https://i.imgur.com/gzBuGIE.png

[loramin]

modal/lightbox triggered on click rather than on hover

This is the current behavior. I'm not wedded to the popover behavior at all, and I'm totally open to a discussion on when people like pop-overs (item links) when people don't (too large fashion images) and everything else (location links?).

But I also know a lot of people like fashion ... and at the same time, showing the whole fashion category worth of images on the item page is impractical (without a carousel or something, which anyone is welcome to build ... but keep in mind that the wiki doesn't need to be weighed down by heavy libraries).

The popovers (coupled with the click lightbox) seemed like a good way to achieve that. I think they could be done better than they were, but again they don't need to exist at all: I just want a good UI that let's people see the fashion screenshots.

[Argh]

The pop-over itembox thing could work well with the 'Fashion: ColorName' item in the bottom tray, I know I use those links all the time to find out the color of the item. For example:

https://i.imgur.com/5FV8atf.jpg

I feel like you may have even had it like this at one point?

Regarding the 'Fashion/Appearance (Wrong Tint)' section, I've never really needed to see what Plate/Leather/Cloth generally looks like on every different race, but that may be because I'm already hella immersed? I guess it could be helpful for things like Velious Chain 1, or Velious Chain 2 but I don't mind clicking the 'Fashion: Velious Chain 1' link from the bottom tray to see those different sets.

But the screenshots of the actual items (Fashion/Appearance) are nice to have.

[loramin]

The pop-over itembox thing could work well with the 'Fashion: ColorName' item in the bottom tray, I know I use those links all the time to find out the color of the item. For example:

https://i.imgur.com/5FV8atf.jpg

I feel like you may have even had it like this at one point?

That was never a feature, but it's a fun idea :) I'll add it to my to do list.

Regarding the 'Fashion/Appearance (Wrong Tint)' section, I've never really needed to see what Plate/Leather/Cloth generally looks like on every different race, but that may be because I'm already hella immersed? I guess it could be helpful for things like Velious Chain 1, or Velious Chain 2 but I don't mind clicking the 'Fashion: Velious Chain 1' link from the bottom tray to see those different sets.

But the screenshots of the actual items (Fashion/Appearance) are nice to have.

The thing is, some armor really does look different on an Ogre vs. a Halfling. If you want to see what ___ looks like, seeing it with the wrong tint on a fellow Halfling could give you a closer idea to what it would look like on your character than seeing it with the correct tint on an Ogre. It does depend on the armor, but I'm just hesitant to not have those "off tint" options at all when they might be useful to people.