Troll Shaman symbols, with Green in mind

[Tenlaar]

I've been waffling about going either Ogre or Troll Shaman for my first Green character so I wanted to see if anybody had some thoughts on which symbols would be more useful and how useful they would be through classic/Kunark. I've never played a Troll so I have no real first hand experience with the symbols.

It seems like the Symbol of Innoruuk is considered the better symbol, but with a 6 second cast time, short duration, and especially low snare percentage, how often is the clicky snare actually better than just using a root when the goal is just to keep something from running? And if fear kiting using it, doesn't the low snare percentage make things difficult?

With the two Cazic symbols, you end up with the ability to fear both undead and animals with only a two second cast time. Shorter duration, but you end up spending less overall time casting for the same duration and it's not all at once.

Now while leveling up on Green, seeing as the best most people (including myself) are going to be running around in for a good while is mostly banded, fear kiting is going to be an ideal way to xp a lot of the time. It seems to me that grouping with somebody who has a much better snare and then using the symbols to save them mana on fears would generally produce better results than using the junk snare and having them run much faster. And between animals and undead there seems to be a pretty good coverage of levels all the way to 50.

So, to any Troll Shaman who have used them, thoughts on which symbols would prove more useful with the Green gearing and leveling situation in mind? Anything I'm saying here just flat out wrong when it comes to using the symbols in practice?

[MikeXG]

Not 100% sure on this but I think the second cazic symbol is broken (according to wiki) so you would only get the undead fear.

I would say if you plan on playing with others, especially others who have a way to snare - go for the fear.

If you plan on playing solo most of the time, the fear isn't gonna do you much good without a way to snare the mob, so I'd go for the innoruuk one. I have done this one on a shaman that is only level 24 and its super fun low levels, free dmg. Quest line is also pretty fun and you can get a halfling illusion mask that has 1 charge. so that's cool.

neither is going to change the game that much, more quality of life and the ability to do some silly things while leveling.

I've only played shaman to 44, but my main duo partner mains shaman and I usually play my bard with it, If I didn't have to twist fear while we fear kite, I'd be able to do a lot more dmg, so I might be bias to the fear.

Good luck and happy hunting mate.

[Wallicker]

Don’t forget fearing a rooted mob will interrupt a spell cast

[Vexenu]

Think long term. Snare is much more useful at 50 and beyond. It makes duoing with a melee, Enchanter or Mage in dungeons much easier. 6 seconds really isn't that bad of a cast time, and the snare itself is more than sufficient to stop runners without rooting them, which is really all you need it for.

Think about it like this: snare is, if not quite a class-defining ability, a majorly impactful and versatile spell that can significantly change your gameplay options. Animal and undead fear? Not so much.

[Snaggles]

IMHO the worst part of the clinging symbol is the duration. Like 36 seconds or something.

If you ever plan to duo with a pure melee it’s pretty ace. Even after Kunark you don’t have to rely on the melee’s procs. If you can slow and keep something snared a monk or warrior can kill almost anything. The warrior being much less pull friendly. You can cheat in some cases with root but having both options is ideal.

[Lojik]

Don’t forget fearing a rooted mob will interrupt a spell cast

Really useful with only 2 second cast time, no recast time, no chance at fizzle. You can easily get 4 chances to interrupt ch. Quest is easier is easier too, the hardest part is getting faction. I'd imagine the animal one is much less useful since many animals are fast.

[Baler]

Troll Shaman Innoruuk is the meta min/max on p99.

[Tenlaar]

Oh damn, I hadn't noticed that the wiki says the panic animal is broken. That's disappointing. I suppose there are enough undead around that Cazic is still in the running, but losing the animals definitely hurts his case.

[Toehammer]

Oh damn, I hadn't noticed that the wiki says the panic animal is broken. That's disappointing. I suppose there are enough undead around that Cazic is still in the running, but losing the animals definitely hurts his case.

Not broken... just did both Cazic symbol quests on my 60 shaman last week. For the second symbol you need to turn in your first symbol... the wiki is wrong. However he won't eat your stuff. You will just get text after handing in 3 things and can hand in the initiate symbol.

Still wish I went Innoruuk back in 2010 :( Had no idea about symbol quests as I played a warrior and monk back in '99.

[Cen]

With the whole old troll vs ogre thing, you can't go wrong either way, but nobody argues about Cazic vs Inny. Its pretty much a lock on Inny symbol.

[Lojik]

nobody argues about Cazic vs Inny. Its pretty much a lock on Inny symbol.

I do /shrug

[Noselacri]

I've played an Innoruuk shaman and the snare neck was... not totally useless, but really not something you want to be relying on. If you have to use it to snare mobs so they don't run away and start a train, you'll hate your life. The cast time is long, the duration is short and the snare % is crap. If you had to do this on every mob over the course of a grinding session, you'd go mental.

But it still is a snare for a class that doesn't otherwise get one, so sometimes it's the thing that determines whether or not you can do some random thing you're trying to do. You just really, really want to find a proper snarer whenever possible. I absolutely hated being in situations where I had to use the neck. It's a huge hassle.

IMO the symbol is not as good as frontal stun immunity. If you do decide to go troll, the reason should be the regen. The neck is just an added bonus.

[Xano]

Point is moot- imho

I started the newest Cazic disciple symbol bug thread that got it fixed in 49 patch.
The quest was just fixed.
But
In one of the replies the dev guy stayed that the symbol quests won’t be released until Kunark on green.


BUT
Try using fear kite on 50+ in HS and fear animal in PoM ...
Tell me how snare is better again? How all my dots do full ticks? How wiz n necro undead eat it... I dunno I find the fears are amazingly useful.
Show me a way a non epic 45 shaman kills spectral keepers in TT? Undead wizards eat it



But this was about green- if u look up the dev replies to my threads you will see

NO SYMBOL QUESTS UNTIL KUNARK

[cactus]

i have a epic troll shaman on red, my 2 cents.

the necklace sucks. even in dicey situations in the bear pits i never used it. the cast time is too long, the effect lasts too short. I stripped my shaman and went Ogre. I did autistic levels of research on forum threads, tested FSI for myself, and having leveled a second shaman to the high 50s it was worth it. You retain FSI through illusions (bear form, AON skeleton form, guise dark elf form).

I was skeptical, but trust me, it's a game changer.

[Tenlaar]

i have a epic troll shaman on red, my 2 cents.

the necklace sucks. even in dicey situations in the bear pits i never used it. the cast time is too long, the effect lasts too short. I stripped my shaman and went Ogre. I did autistic levels of research on forum threads, tested FSI for myself, and having leveled a second shaman to the high 50s it was worth it. You retain FSI through illusions (bear form, AON skeleton form, guise dark elf form).

I was skeptical, but trust me, it's a game changer.

I've spent the last week going pretty deep into the ogre vs. shaman decision myself, which is why I know that from 24 to 38 an ogre shaman will have 72% of the regeneration that a troll does while sitting, from 39 to 49 it'll be 81%, and then at 50 it will be 78%. Throw in a rubi bp at 50 and it goes back up to 81%. The troll shaman, at 50, ends up generating roughly 20 mana per minute more than the ogre.

I think I've finally decided that the roughly 20% more hp regen, or 20 mana per minute, doesn't outweigh the nicer starting stats and easier time splitting camps and getting roots and slows and what not off that comes with ogre.

[AegnorP99]

NO SYMBOL QUESTS UNTIL KUNARK

Oh god is this true? Say it aint so.

[Troxx]

My troll shaman has gotten very good use out of snare necklace. Full disclosure is it is a longish cast time and short duration. Despite the limitations it has saved my bacon (or my group) a few dozen times.

It’s a great situational click that gives the class an otherwise unobtainable (on demand) ability the class otherwise would not have.

[Tecmos Deception]

i have a epic troll shaman on red, my 2 cents.

the necklace sucks. even in dicey situations in the bear pits i never used it. the cast time is too long, the effect lasts too short. I stripped my shaman and went Ogre. I did autistic levels of research on forum threads, tested FSI for myself, and having leveled a second shaman to the high 50s it was worth it. You retain FSI through illusions (bear form, AON skeleton form, guise dark elf form).

I was skeptical, but trust me, it's a game changer.

Was this before the changes to bash and fsi? How do you feel about the importance of fsi now that it only prevents stuns, but not bash-interrupt?

[Kinaki]

Was this before the changes to bash and fsi? How do you feel about the importance of fsi now that it only prevents stuns, but not bash-interrupt?

Fake news, you can still channel through bashes.

[Tecmos Deception]

Fake news, you can still channel through bashes.

I never said you couldn't. There's a difference between "can channel through bashes" and "never can get interrupted from bashes except for damage channel fail or push." The latter is what I understood to be removed by the recent fsi patch and what I was asking about.