Tab targeting has been silently removed...

[Izmael]

...in the 50b (https://www.project1999.com/files/P99Files50b.zip) update patch.

This patch isn't mandatory - you can still run the game with the previous "50" patch files, and hasn't been announced. Almost everyone still runs the "50" files and hasn't downloaded the "50b" patch.

The 50b patch removed tab targetting and I suppose that the next, 51 patch, will seal this removal as it will most likely be a mandatory update.

This is 10 times bigger than the pet window, guys. It affects every class, and is essentially how we played this game since P99 exists, by using tab targeting. Without it, we'll have to rely on the broken-ass EQ mouse targeting exclusively (yes and F8), simply forcing us to go through buggy code and frustration.

I understand that there are several P99 users who are on a quest for pure classicness - some of these users are very vocal and it may seem that they represent a substantial minority. My belief is that they are a very tiny number of people, who certainly do deserve to be listened to, but their opinion must be weighted against the immense majority of the players who sure will want tab targeting to remain.

I'm asking the devs to please reconsider this change in the way you've reconsidered the Pet Window change. Keep it for Green only, and allow tab targetting on Blue.

This way, Green will be the hardcore classic server, where everyone has it the hard way, BUT you can get your guy guised and whatnot. I'd actually support removing item links as well, there.

Blue will be some kind of Valhalla where players go to chill when their characters are merged after a cycle of hard fought battles. Doesn't mean that we need shared bank, mercs or (shiver) Luclin on Blue - just keep the small little details such as Pet Window, Item Links or Tab Targeting.

[Deathrydar]

just keep the small little details such as Pet Window, Item Links or Tab Targeting.

This is where is starts. Keep it all out, imo!

This is what happens when you let the population get a taste of quality of life changes. They no longer even care about the game being classic, they just want their convenience back! This is why Shadows of Luclin was created and accepted. We all know what happened after that.

[Kiwix]

Agreed

[Dolalin]

Tab targetting was classic (at least December 1999) so I'm sure this was a slip-up.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/L1NSCnc9_24/U9TVBE_gqNoJ

[Molitoth]

Holy crap, this is madness.

[Jimjam]

It's gonna be a painful one, but Brexit means Brexit.

[Vyal]

Obviously some guy named Kendrick said it was classic so why can't you just enjoy it? :rolleyes:

[Izmael]

The option to CHANGE the key didn't appear until 2003. The feature itself was probably there since the start, just hardcoded to the TAB key.

[DMN]

The option to CHANGE the key didn't appear until 2003. The feature itself was probably there since the start, just hardcoded to the TAB key.

Shouldn't you be posting this in the "bugs" forum then?

[Silvershot6986]

That is stupid... tab targetting is a staple to the game.

[Vyal]

Everything was done by hand getting targets was tricky.
http://www.jeremiahstillings.net/naroggsplace/eq_manual.pdf

It's amazing that it was the same ones being soooooo vocal about having mob limits and AoE limits put into the game even though they were not ever a classic thing but now here you are complaining when he actually makes something classic.

The irony isn't lost on me one bit. :D

[Jimjam]

The option to CHANGE the key didn't appear until 2003. The feature itself was probably there since the start, just hardcoded to the TAB key.

Tab key was switch between self and previous target, right?

[Izmael]

Tab key was switch between self and previous target, right?

No, that's an entirely different thing.

We're talking about cycling between nearest NPC (or PC) here.

[Troxx]

Life is going to suck if tab targeting is removed

[Jimjam]

No, that's an entirely different thing.

We're talking about cycling between nearest NPC (or PC) here.

I know what you're talking about. If there was the 'tab' targeting you talk of (cycle through npc), it was using a different button. Tab classically switched to self and back to previous target. That's what Dolalin's link illustrates. In the patch thread Secret's 2003 UI picture shows this too (except f8 and tab are switched around).

[Mentathiel]

It's gonna be a painful one, but Brexit means Brexit.

Yes, because 52% of the 50% who voted said they wanted 'a more classic server' and therefore must specifically have wanted this feature removed.

[Rang]

are you sure it was removed or did UI changes just unbind it for you?

hit alt+o - go to keyboard, filter for targetting - look to see if the "cycle through nearest npc targets" is still available and able to be bound.

[Izmael]

are you sure it was removed or did UI changes just unbind it for you?

hit alt+o - go to keyboard, filter for targetting - look to see if the "cycle through nearest npc targets" is still available and able to be bound.

It's still in the options and able to be bound, it just doesn't do anything. Try and see for yourself (with the 50b patch).

[Vexenu]

Does this refer to Target cycling? Or to targeting the nearest NPC?

[Rang]

yeah ur right. yeah that will be tough pill to swallow for sure

[fadetree]

well, TAKP is on an even more classical client, and you don't have tab targeting or mouselook on that, which, let me tell you, is a massive difference just as OP is saying. Do I play on TAKP despite this? You bet, it's a great server and a lot of fun. This will not kill blue either. TAKP does have the pet window, though, but this is from the era that TAKP emulates.

But remember, you are on a trilogy client, which is way out of era and always has been. For myself, I would understand this being on Green, but not sure what putting it on blue accomplishes.

[Dugface]

This game is now unplayable!

[Deathrydar]

This game is now unplayable!

Then it's finally classic!

[Shrubwise]

I am using version 50b. The full download, not just spells file.
Tab targeting is still working for me, and I use Duxa UI.

[Dolalin]

I must have lived in the Classic land for too long, is this not about the classic Tab key functionality, going back and forth between yourself and your target NPC?

Is this in fact about cycling through nearest targets?

Because that definitely wasn't classic and it'd be good to have that disabled.

[soronil]

"I decided to play on a server that is trying to recreate a 20 year old game, and has been making updates for 10 years towards that goal, and now they're getting too close!"

[elwing]

Damn, it's a joke right? I can see myself mouse targeting at home... But this patch simply means that I just can't play anymore during my comute... It's just not viable to mouse target when you play without a mouse... That's just about 85% of my playtime...

[Fammaden]

I am using version 50b. The full download, not just spells file.
Tab targeting is still working for me, and I use Duxa UI.

Doesn't seem to work for me using Duxa and 50b, you sure you aren't using the original patch 50?

[Deathrydar]

no one cares dude

I do!

[Fammaden]

I care two.

[Mead]

Enabling bad players, especially chanters

This made my day

[Mblake81]

Enabling bad players, especially chanters

This made my day

Love how p99 staff are determined to lower the raw accessibility of their game to players by rolling back simple mechanical features this server has had since day 1.

Waiting on the stop playing threat to the devs.

[Mead]

Waiting on the stop playing threat to the devs.

I haven’t played here or donated a dime since the name change fiasco. I actually deleted my toon(s). I hang around for threads like these

[Mblake81]

I haven’t played here or donated a dime since the name change fiasco. I actually deleted my toon(s). I hang around for threads like these

I am not waiting on the threat from you but the other guy I quoted.

Your quote is right.

[Dogma]

Patches that reverse functionality not classic.

[Mead]

I am not waiting on the threat from you but the other guy I quoted.

Your quote is right.

My apologies good sir.

I always took pride in efficiency and being able to manage dangerous situations quickly. And most of the people I gamed with during my time did as well. It was fun being with top performers. And it allowed you to get shit done other people couldn’t if they weren’t performing at the same levels. It also gave people the opportunity to be better. This is a step in the wrong direction for a community that already has no shortage of baddies playing. Good for your classic purist stoner tho.

[Nirgon]

Crocodile tears from the people who want to be classic pros but not play real classic EQ

I suggest the deaf ear, point to the sign outside

Get rid of the pet window asap on green

[Deathrydar]

Crocodile tears from the people who want to be classic pros but not play real classic EQ

I suggest the deaf ear, point to the sign outside

Get rid of the pet window asap on green

I just don't get it. I would imagine those that are here are here to experience the classic era of this game. Why would you get angry when the devs give that to you?

[El-Hefe]

I just don't get it. I would imagine those that are here are here to experience the classic era of this game. Why would you get angry when the devs give that to you?

Some people seem to see P99 the same as any other game, want every QoL improvement they can possibly get and don’t care about the devs stated goals.

How they ended up on P99 I’ll never know, but they definitely come from the raiding scene more than anywhere else.

[Mblake81]

You do know that tab targetting has literally been a part of p99 since the start of the project, right? Long before you ever made an account...

So your argument is its been a part of P99 since its start, a project that has required working backwards by the devs to restore the original game because it was erased/lost/no backups by Sony?

p99 is not eq. P99 is a project to restore original eq. I have made the observation before that players here are confused about what it is and its sort of become its own beast. Mainly due to a small team interested in this (and stuck with it) and taking years worth of work.

Now to address the point here, was tab targeting in the original game? the game this project is trying to restore. If so (because I don't remember that detail) then that should be your argument, not that it has been "p99 since the start" because that is irrelevant to the projects goal. They had to start somewhere with this.

InB4 that one guy makes an car restoration argument again.. something about rust on the tailpipe.

[Cen]

Ive only ever used one chat window for everything and ive never "tab targeted" anything. So I'm not concerned about those. Honestly even with a raid force and tons of mobs its dead easy to click your target.

[Deathrydar]

You do know that tab targetting has literally been a part of p99 since the start of the project, right? Long before you ever made an account...

There were a lot of things that weren't classic on this server when it launched in October of 2009. I was there. And they are gone now. The devs should continue to do this to complete the vision that started this server in the first place......

And that vision was to recreate the classic EverQuest experience. I don't want anyone to leave, but if you are going to leave due to the server doing what it's main goal was, then it was never for you to begin with.

[Kinaki]

Tab targeting through npcs is classic. Cycling through PCs however was a PoP thing.

[Jimjam]

How they ended up on P99 I’ll never know, but they definitely come from the raiding scene more than anywhere else.

I think most came here for nostalgia, some came to try out something they heard about but never got a chance to play.

Further to that, they came here for the chance to try content they never got to. They saw their failure to succeed 20 years ago, and wanted to make amends to that and become a 'master of the game'. I know I was excited to go back to eq classic and try it again but as a more experienced player.

Eventually, as we exhaust lower content and try out higher end stuff, we get caught into the trap. We move further away from our live experiences; content we never saw before, tactics and strategies that didn't exist. Player competition we never saw on live.

Eventually this microcosm becomes the new game for us and we forget why we originally came to p1999. When the status quo is shaken up we feel like we have lost something we are entitled to.

It takes a moment to regain the perspective of why the project is here: as an exercise in experimental archaeology to help recreate this game we love as it was.

[Mblake81]

I think most came here for nostalgia, some came to try out something they heard about but never got a chance to play.

Further to that, they came here for the chance to try content they never got to. They saw their failure to succeed 20 years ago, and wanted to make amends to that and become a 'master of the game'. I know I was excited to go back to eq classic and try it again but as a more experienced player.

Eventually, as we exhaust lower content and try out higher end stuff, we get caught into the trap. We move further away from our live experiences; content we never saw before, tactics and strategies that didn't exist. Player competition we never saw on live.

Eventually this microcosm becomes the new game for us and we forget why we originally came to p1999. When the status quo is shaken up we feel like we have lost something we are entitled to.

It takes a moment to regain the perspective of why the project is here: as an exercise in experimental archaeology to help recreate this game we love as it was.

:)

Also an argument here for physical media. With things going digital a company can significantly alter something, you will not be able to restore it or in some cases just remove it from existence entirely because it doesn't fit whatever model they are using now.

For people that came before my time on PC, iirc this was one of their problems and warnings of the MMORPG age. Everquest may not be specifically to blame for this but it helped usher an era that followed where things end up this way.

Im my mind an understanding, I see an MMORPG such as EQ as its own thing with no influences on any other genre or game design. Paying a monthly fee was something specific to this game and part of its charm. Some people on old game forums hate EQ but not because of the game but the influences it eventually brought.

[bradsamma]

This is stupid.... our entire play style uses this method. If it wasn't in since the start then fine but removing this targetting system is ridiculous.

Please put it back in....

[aaezil]

The whiners are great today

Popcorn.gif

[Mblake81]

This is stupid.... our entire play style uses this method. If it wasn't in since the start then fine but removing this targetting system is ridiculous.

Please put it back in....

Pet window argument on repeat, you are not going to like classic eq, you know, the goal of this project which is not complete yet.

Edit: One of these guys shot Rogean in the knee with an arrow.

[Deathrydar]

This is stupid.... our entire play style uses this method. If it wasn't in since the start then fine but removing this targetting system is ridiculous.

Please put it back in....

From http://wiki.project1999.com/Green

Blue (and Red) Post-Green
Although Blue's original purpose was to sever as a "Beta" server for Green, after Green's release the Blue (and Red?) will continue running, at the current (just before Luclin) point in the timeline. "Classically inspired" custom content may be added in the future.

Long story short, you are referring to a beta server. The beta server is not complete, and this feature was never supposed to be on the beta server. Now it's not. It's over man. Classic EQ is not "convenient" at all!

[Fammaden]

Tab targeting through npcs is classic. Cycling through PCs however was a PoP thing.

I thought so too, someone in the green forums recently explained to me the two different "target cyclings" but I don't recall the details. But they were saying that the current patches removal of tab targeting shouldn't be affected, this wasn't a dev so IDK if they were accurate.

I thought tab targeting was active in Velious at least, but I know just going off my memory isn't evidence.

[Daldaen]

It’s important to distinctly describe the four methods of keyboard targetting NPCs.

F8 - Target Nearest - This is classic and will target the first NPC entity directly ahead of your characters current bearing.

Tab - Swap Target - This is classic and will swap between targeting yourself and your last non-self target. It’s very useful to keep tabs on a tank not in your group on raids or to keep track of a charmed pet or an NPC during an escort part of a quest.

/target name - Type Target - Unsure on classicness but it exists here and allows you to Target an NPC or PC near you by typing out all or part of the name of the NPC. Previously you could target with NPC ID numbers to identify placeholders but I believe they nerfed that properly but you should still be able to /Target Lord_Nagafen.

Cycle Target - This is confirmed not classic and allowed you to cycle between NPCs 1-10 and then start over at 1 again. This makes many game functions like Crowd Control and DS powerleveling extremely trivial as you can seemlessly target every mob in a crowd one by one without getting the same target twice. It is good they remove this because with it in there is a lot of power gained by CC classes that they should not have by being able to quickly lock down a big train. You should need to fumble with your mouse or continually reposition yourself and try F8 to get a proper Target.

If Tab Targeting was indeed removed it should be reinstated. But it sounds like they removed Cycle targetting which is Classic and a good fix.

[Kinaki]

You're confused. But whatever. This server has nothing to do with classic so one more random change means nothing. Your "cycle target" was live during velious.

[Deathrydar]

This server has nothing to do with classic

LoL! What?!

[Daldaen]

You're confused. But whatever. This server has nothing to do with classic so one more random change means nothing. Your "cycle target" was live during velious.

I’m not. It most definitely wasn’t available in Velious. Tab Targetting was though.

April 2004 Patch (http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20040414.html)

You can now set hot keys to cycle through targets!

Druids Grove, July 2004 (http://thedruidsgrove.org/archive/eq/t-8904.html)

Vekx
07-20-2004, 02:57 PM
I thought I saw a 'how to' for making a cycle target key when this option came out but can't seem to find it. If I remember correctly you had to chose a letter key which was annoying to me. Anyway... can anyone give some semi detailed instructions please?

Tiane
07-20-2004, 05:58 PM
Doesnt have to be a letter. All you need to do is press Alt-O to go into options in game, click the keyboard tab. Click the pull down thingy and select targetting. In the window, you should see Cycle Targets with no key assigned. Just click on it and then press they key you want to use. 8)

Secrets Herself (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=334923&page=8)

Not classic. This functionality was added in late 2003.

Here's a screenshot from the EQMac Windows client, circa January 15, 2003:

https://i.imgur.com/IyLbtNT.png

[Vx36]

If it wasn't in since the start then fine but removing this targetting system is ridiculous.
What does anything being there from the start have to do with it? Do you guys know what website you are on?

[loramin]

It’s important to distinctly describe the four methods of keyboard targetting NPCs.

F8 - Target Nearest - This is classic and will target the first NPC entity directly ahead of your characters current bearing.

Tab - Swap Target - This is classic and will swap between targeting yourself and your last non-self target. It’s very useful to keep tabs on a tank not in your group on raids or to keep track of a charmed pet or an NPC during an escort part of a quest.

/target name - Type Target - Unsure on classicness but it exists here and allows you to Target an NPC or PC near you by typing out all or part of the name of the NPC. Previously you could target with NPC ID numbers to identify placeholders but I believe they nerfed that properly but you should still be able to /Target Lord_Nagafen.

Cycle Target - This is confirmed not classic and allowed you to cycle between NPCs 1-10 and then start over at 1 again. This makes many game functions like Crowd Control and DS powerleveling extremely trivial as you can seemlessly target every mob in a crowd one by one without getting the same target twice. It is good they remove this because with it in there is a lot of power gained by CC classes that they should not have by being able to quickly lock down a big train. You should need to fumble with your mouse or continually reposition yourself and try F8 to get a proper Target.

If Tab Targeting was indeed removed it should be reinstated. But it sounds like they removed Cycle targetting which is Classic and a good fix.

Great write-up Dald! I made a wiki page out of it (and added mouse click targeting and /assist): http://wiki.project1999.com/Targeting

P.S. Also the wiki has patch notes (http://wiki.project1999.com/Patch_Notes) now: no need to link to that Japanese site (or anywhere else).

[Deathrydar]

What does tab targeting being there from the start have anything to do with it? Do you guys know what website you are on?

New skeleton models, new wolf models, starting city maps, translocators ....

These are just some of the non-classic things that I can remember off hand that were in the game at launch, but weren't intended to be in there. The devs worked hard to get this project on point, and they are getting it there. I think some of the later players just do not know what the original vision of this project is.

[Chortles Snort|eS]

Yes every1
LetS taKe the BronY/DolaN OP srSLy

(not)

😬

[Kinaki]

[Snip]

As I said previously, Tabbing through npcs was at the very least Velious, if not classic; cycling through PCs was added during PoP (possibly as late as LDoN, but in NOWAY as late as your 2004 blurb). How do I know this? Because I played then and have distinct memories of trying it for the first time during the Gods phase of PoTime. That's why I say possibly as late as LDoN - because it was the last expansion a top tier guild would still be farming PoTime. This was PCs however; NPCs had long since been in game.

Your supposed evidence to the contrary does nothing but quote the ability to (re)assign hotkeys and queries by random people asking for help at <insert a random point in time>.

[Daldaen]

See Secrets quote from the EQMac client which was the base game client from PoP. There was no Cycle NPC hotkey back then. You are mistaken.

It’s natural for memories that are nearly 18 years old to be faulty especially when you currently play P99 and mix in your current experiences with the memories from the past. This is why player memories aren’t used as evidence to change things in classicquest.

[Deliverator]

Tab targeting was a thing from when I started pre-kunark. You couldn't change the keys, but you had tab targeting

[Fammaden]

As I said previously, Tabbing through npcs was at the very least Velious, if not classic; cycling through PCs was added during PoP (possibly as late as LDoN, but in NOWAY as late as your 2004 blurb). How do I know this? Because I played then and have distinct memories of trying it for the first time during the Gods phase of PoTime. That's why I say possibly as late as LDoN - because it was the last expansion a top tier guild would still be farming PoTime. This was PCs however; NPCs had long since been in game.

Your supposed evidence to the contrary does nothing but quote the ability to (re)assign hotkeys and queries by random people asking for help at <insert a random point in time>.

Despite my defense of the devs in making such changes, I really really remember it this way as well. The wording of the patch seems to be more focused on "you can now make ____ hotkey" more than "you can now cycle target NPC's".

I know my memory isn't perfect and its been a long time but this is a pretty common command to have been missing for basically the entire time I was playing. I have a hard time believing it stuck in my mind so much based only on the brief amount I still played in 2004 during which I only logged in to raid our weekly time clear and then left again.

[Fammaden]

See Secrets quote from the EQMac client which was the base game client from PoP. There was no Cycle NPC hotkey back then. You are mistaken.

It’s natural for memories that are nearly 18 years old to be faulty especially when you currently play P99 and mix in your current experiences with the memories from the past. This is why player memories aren’t used as evidence to change things in classicquest.

Wasn't the EQMac client a totally separate client actually? I mean maybe it had the same basic functions I understand, but technically it wasn't the same client right?

[Fammaden]

Tab targeting was a thing from when I started pre-kunark. You couldn't change the keys, but you had tab targeting

Yeah same way I remember, are we sure that patch didn't simply allow you to rebind the "hotkey" from tab to whatever you want?

[Deliverator]

I'm 100% certain that there was a system for targeting NPCs that did not require a mouse. I didn't target anything with my mouse from 1999-2004

[Kinaki]

I was a numpad afficionado. Only used the mouse when moving around; F7,F8, tab for everything else.

[loramin]

I'm 100% certain that there was a system for targeting NPCs that did not require a mouse. I didn't target anything with my mouse from 1999-2004

Yes, tab targeting (ie. target the closest NPC in your field of vision) was classic. Cycle targeting (ie. target the closest NPC in your field of vision, then switch to the next closest, then switch to ...) was not.

[Daldaen]

Allkahazam Post 2004 (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=1&mid=108195666528562941)

I gotta say, the cylcing through targets is going to be real nice... I got on at work here just to play with it... can't wait to try it out in a dungeon :)

Allkahazam Post 2004 (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=1&mid=1082425002446137346)

I'm using this key now. Wow! one of the best things Soe has done in a long time.

This is great for slowing a big pile of mobs all clumped to gather.

It was a new feature, not simply allowing flexibility in the keystroke used. Your recollection is likely using F8 and repositioning to use F8, using /assist, using Tab, etc. But you simply could not cycle Target in Velious with a single hotkey like the Titanium client allows.

[Llandris]

Yes, tab targeting (ie. target the closest NPC in your field of vision) was classic. Cycle targeting (ie. target the closest NPC in your field of vision, then switch to the next closest, then switch to ...) was not.

ding ding ding

[Fammaden]

Fair enough Dald, you win, I'm convinced.

[Chortles Snort|eS]

It’s no wonder so many of these posters are playing Vanilla WoW. Bad player alerts detected off thE charts

[Arvan]

Oh, you think classic is your ally? You merely adopted classic. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn’t see the cycle nearest npc or pet window until I was already a man; by then, it was nothing to me but blinding!

[Bardp1999]

We want classic content. Fiddling with the UI's and making the game just as unplayable as it was in 1999 with shitty features (or lack thereof) that were rightly changed as the game moved forward is dumb.

If you guys ever figure out how to make the stamina bar work the server is going to have a meltdown.

[kaev]

Your recollection is likely using F8 and repositioning to use F8, using /assist, using Tab, etc.

Targeting skill was the key to dungeon CC, it would always be mentioned when praising a talented enchanter back in the day. Charming was a novelty due to the much greater risk compared to p99.

[Mahdrek]

this sucks a lot.. i just made an enchanter,,, now im deciding which game to play next: eq 1 or 2,,, i dont want easy but i dont want impossible targeting

[DMN]

this sucks a lot.. i just made an enchanter,,, now im deciding which game to play next: eq 1 or 2,,, i dont want easy but i dont want impossible targeting

Minesweeper.

[Chortles Snort|eS]

We want classic content. Fiddling with the UI's and making the game just as unplayable as it was in 1999 with shitty features (or lack thereof) that were rightly changed as the game moved forward is dumb.

If you guys ever figure out how to make the stamina bar work the server is going to have a meltdown.

Found the world of Warcraft player

**aka bad at EverQuest

[Rogean]

Woops. Yea, this is a thing, and accurate. I forgot I coded it in.

With that said, people need to realize that we're not just simply disabling stuff like this because we're fanatically classic (Well.. maybe nilbog would), but because these are features that make the game EASIER than it should be. Targetting was hard to do in classic, and that's part of the difficulty of the game.

Is there an argument to be made for green vs blue? Sure. I'll discuss it internally.

[Chortles Snort|eS]

Targetting was hard to do in classic, and that's part of the difficulty of the game.

🙏🏽👏🏽🙌🏽😘

[El-Hefe]

this sucks a lot.. i just made an enchanter,,, now im deciding which game to play next: eq 1 or 2,,, i dont want easy but i dont want impossible targeting

How is it impossible? You can still target the nearest NPC. What has become more difficult is individually targeting a grouped up horde of mobs.

The hard truth people aren’t getting here is CC was made very very easy in EQ and this change brings it down to be inline with other classes.

[AbstractVision]

Rogean, don't let cries of outrage and threats of rage quitting distract you from your most noble quest of recreating the true classic experience.

Fact is, people are not going anywhere. There is nothing alternative to go to. Nobody else does what you do.

If they leave, they will be back.

Just look at the votes for the hard core classic features. Majority wants true classic.

Keep up the good work!

[Danth]

Mousewheel zoom should be next on the agenda. Haynar has been reporting for at least a couple years he has a fix available.

I noticed on the tutorial that my targeted NPC's name did not flash. The tutorial however uses a different .exe than the actual game. When was name-flash added to the game more properly? Could've been very early, that's another thing which escapes memory.

Danth

[Rogean]

By the way I remember playing when Cycle NPC wasn't implemented, and my work around to target mobs without clicking was to use Target Closest, and strafe my character around so that the mob I wanted WAS the closest NPC. :rofl:

[loramin]

Is there an argument to be made for green vs blue? Sure. I'll discuss it internally.

It seems to me "what should Blue be?" is the real question here.

Is it beta classic with an unclassic timeline? That seems like its old, pre-Green definition.

Is it "classic, v1.5"? The custom content, pet window, and custom UI skins seem to lean toward that definition ... but then that begs the question: "where exactly do you draw the line of where 'v1.5' stops and starts?" (we knew where classic started and stopped, but the new boundaries of Blue seem undefined).

Your server, your call, so I won't even try to argue for any specific definition, but I think if you can nail that definition down, and communicate to the player base effectively, it could help improve the reaction to whatever decisions you make.

People will be able to say "well they are adding/removing X from Blue, and I don't like it, but Blue is about Y, so at least that makes sense." Of course it won't eliminate complaints, but it might mitigate some of the shock/hurt/"this is unfair" feelings people get.

[honeybee12874]

Is there an argument to be made for green vs blue? Sure. I'll discuss it internally.

Awesome, this seems like a fair compromise. I agree that this change makes sense for Green, but less so perhaps for Blue.

[Dolalin]

Rogean, please stop, I have priapism.

[branamil]

Well pathing is a complete clusterfuck and shit always falls through the floor and hits you through the ceiling but LETS MAKE TARGETING HARDER WOOHOO!!

[Daliant17447]

Great change! cycle nearest npc hotkey makes shit too easy, definitely more excited about rolling chanter now with all the crutches removed.

[Mblake81]

If you guys ever figure out how to make the stamina bar work the server is going to have a meltdown.

I have marshmellows on a stick ready for the when meltdown happens.

[DMN]

I have marshmellows on a stick ready for the when meltdown happens.

I have a marshmellow dick waiting to make augmentation great again.

[Gustoo]

By the way I remember playing when Cycle NPC wasn't implemented, and my work around to target mobs without clicking was to use Target Closest, and strafe my character around so that the mob I wanted WAS the closest NPC. :rofl:

this for me too.

[Zeboim]

Sounds to me like the good old fashioned /assist macro just became mandatory for every hotbar again.

Also this is a pretty solid nerf to chanters and their endless bullshit

[Gustoo]

Well pathing is a complete clusterfuck and shit always falls through the floor and hits you through the ceiling but LETS MAKE TARGETING HARDER WOOHOO!!

hehhhhh

I was upset like 10 years ago when a change was made to hide functionality here because I was really concerned about overall my favorite cleric race. Its hard to be the guy that really cares about something that is absolutely not going to get changed

[MaCtastic]

FTR, /guildwar was also classic...

[Daldaen]

By the way I remember playing when Cycle NPC wasn't implemented, and my work around to target mobs without clicking was to use Target Closest, and strafe my character around so that the mob I wanted WAS the closest NPC. :rofl:

This is the truth. Using this method is much easier when you have a Tank aware of the limitations in targeting.

Each time you use your Mez hotkey to alert your group you are mezzing a mob, your tank should know to take a few steps backwards. This ensures that the other mobs on him step forward and allow the enchanter to press F8 again for a new target. Continue repeating this process until you are down to a single mob on the tank.

If mobs break off and start beating on Healers or have undead aggro and are all over the Melee either use click Targetting or move your character as Rogean described to get an F8 line of sight on your next Mez target.

Same goes for root CC and in some cases Offtank CC if you’re breaking a difficult room with Weaponshield engage or a avoidance monk/rogue.

[Baler]

Daldaen had a meltdown about raid scene a couple years ago.
while we're talking about the past.

[Nirgon]

Praying for rock solid spines and only the utmost classic implementations

[bradsamma]

Implement it on green by all means but leave blue alone.

Almost no one wants this.

[Ashenden]

It seems that there is a vocal segment of this community that wants this easy, twenty year old game to be the absolute easiest version they can possibly get. I'm starting to wonder if they wouldn't fit in better on a TLP.

I'm coming to really wish Green wasn't going to roll in to Blue but rather a master Green server when the time comes for Green League: Season 2. Leave the beta behind.

[encopitt]

I came back to P99 a couple of months ago after playing for a couple days a few years ago.
All in all I have really enjoyed it, and appreciate all the work that the devs are putting into bug fixes and whatnot.

What I do not enjoy is the removal of small improvements in the name of "not classic". Some of the changes I do understand however, given the massive changes in technology since 1999 I personally feel some of these changes are just getting a little, I don't know, "anal" is all I can come up with.

I have a 4k monitor, I can't read a damn thing in classic UI.

I'm going to continue to attempt to enjoy the game as presented, but at some point removing functionality that in no way harms the projects pretense, will alienate the community.

Pushing people who are interested and invested in the project and community away for the sake of purity just makes no sense to me. How many movies, books and plays been built around a story on that premise? This is just needling people until they leave imho.

-encopitt

[Palemoon]

Great classic change, will let the superior players shine through.

Next we need mouse wheel disabled , horrendously not classic.

[El-Hefe]

Pushing people who are interested and invested in the project and community away for the sake of purity just makes no sense to me. How many movies, books and plays been built around a story on that premise? This is just needling people until they leave imho.

-encopitt

It wouldn’t make sense, if the goal of this Project was to create the most popular EQ server possible. But that’s not the goal, it’s to make a server that is as close to the classic EQ experience as possible with the resources available.

If people enjoy playing on it: Great!

If it is too difficult/unwieldy for many: That’s great too!

[Vexenu]

Honestly this change is not that big of a deal. It's not like it makes doing certain content impossible. It basically just forces people to pay more attention and makes it more difficult for a single Enchanter to lock down a ton of mobs quickly. Most of the whining is coming from Enchanters who are mad they won't be able to solo farm high end cash camps as safely and efficienty as they did before. As usual, most of the vociferous objections to classic mechanics can be traced back to an insatiable lust for easy pixels, an affliction which has sadly taken over the minds of many within our P1999 community.

[garfo]

nooooo

[3d_glasses]

If it makes for a situation where some will master and others cannot, then thats cool! I appreciate an opportunity to succeed where others might fail.

[Deathrydar]

Implement it on green by all means but leave blue alone.

Almost no one wants this.

Almost no one? You mean the four people that posted about it on these forums? Is that "no one"?

[Troxx]

Next we need mouse wheel disabled , horrendously not classic.

That would be a borderline game killer for me.

[Kinaki]

In the ongoing effort to make this game as clunky as possible, please eliminate /rt and /tt as well. Also tab & shift-tab to cycle through last tells. Oh, and your /tgb command should not be working with item clickies such as druid group regen BP. Obviously no mouse wheel scroll.

And please for the love of god get rid of this Wiki thing.

[Rogean]

Files updated to 50c, patch notes updated.

[Rogean]

That would be a borderline game killer for me.

Can anyone explain to me why this would be the case? F9x3 accomplishes basically the same damn thing.

[Castamere]

Can anyone explain to me why this would be the case? F9x3 accomplishes basically the same damn thing.

It's fine if you're sitting still. Trying to run around is a different story. This is assuming you're using right click to steer

[Danth]

Can anyone explain to me why this would be the case? F9x3 accomplishes basically the same damn thing.

if you want to be pedantic, the mouselook controls also historically worked differently in third person until deep into Velious. There's a reason almost nobody used the third-person view modes early on:

------------------------------
September 25, 2001 3:00 am
------------------------------

- Mouselook will now work a little differently when in the first two
third-person camera modes (overhead and chase). They will work
similarly to first-person mouselook (i.e. your character's heading will
change when you move the mouse left or right, the left and right
movement keys will cause your player to strafe, and the camera angle
will pitch up or down when you move the mouse forward or back). These
changes should make those first two third-person camera modes more
useful.

The chase-cam modes accessed with the function keys don't quite track the same way either and don't zoom exactly the same. The widespread use of third-person view modes not only makes situation awareness much more trivial but it's one of the most widespread non-classic things about P99. Norrath was built to be seen from the first-person perspective. If you're making the cutoff for "blue" the 2002-era adoption of the new UI then I suppose it fits within that timeline.

The various non-classic uproars over just about everything you've wanted to change in the past few weeks has been a bit of a revelation to me in the sense of just how many people are here simply because they want a free/noboxing server and not because they necessarily like classic-style EQ specifically. I think giving ground on the pet window thing may have been a mistake. Give an inch, they want a mile--indeed.

I'll stick around here regardless of the classic features added--or not added. P99's nice as it is. A more-classic P99 would also be nice. The efforts of you, Nilbog, and your team have provided the wife and I with something of a video game "lifeboat" over the past decade. We might be entirely out of gaming if not for P99. Looking forward to years ahead.

Danth

[Secrets]

if you want to be pedantic, the mouselook controls also historically worked differently in third person until deep into Velious. There's a reason almost nobody used the third-person view modes early on:


Sounds like something I'll cook up this weekend and submit for Green.

I know exactly the situation this is referencing. Would be great to have it era locked.

[tacomagradd]

Please continue to make green the 100% classic that all these purists need. Let blue be what it has been - not a devolution of something unrecognizable to those who've been on the server for years and years.

Blue is already something different than classic - and compromises have already been made to increase playability, honor techniques and methods people have used for years to play. We have invested our time here, and it is frankly depressing to see it all stripped away with changes that really are designed for a new experience, not the old experience we've grown accustomed to with Blue.

Compromise is possible, both purists and pragmatists can have their way. Choice can be maximized, and everyone can have a place for their style, but not if green's changes are imposed upon Blue.

Thanks for maintaining this project. I want to keep playing, but I can't force myself to participate when a cascade of changes are made that essentially make the game clunkier, less user friendly, and less fun. I don't play this game for the "classic" targeting mechanics, I play it for the mob encounters, the people, the lore and nostalgia. If people want to play it for the classic targeting mechanics, then let them roll on green! A new choice for people is truly one of the biggest advantages for the green server, and we should maximize the differences of that choice.

[Deathrydar]

Please continue to make green the 100% classic that all these purists need. Let blue be what it has been - not a devolution of something unrecognizable to those who've been on the server for years and years.

Blue is already something different than classic - and compromises have already been made to increase playability, honor techniques and methods people have used for years to play. We have invested our time here, and it is frankly depressing to see it all stripped away with changes that really are designed for a new experience, not the old experience we've grown accustomed to with Blue.

Compromise is possible, both purists and pragmatists can have their way. Choice can be maximized, and everyone can have a place for their style, but not if green's changes are imposed upon Blue.

Thanks for maintaining this project. I want to keep playing, but I can't force myself to participate when a cascade of changes are made that essentially make the game clunkier, less user friendly, and less fun. I don't play this game for the "classic" targeting mechanics, I play it for the mob encounters, the people, the lore and nostalgia. If people want to play it for the classic targeting mechanics, then let them roll on green! A new choice for people is truly one of the biggest advantages for the green server, and we should maximize the differences of that choice.

All I read was, "I can't tab thru targets so I'm quitting."

[encopitt]

It wouldn’t make sense, if the goal of this Project was to create the most popular EQ server possible. But that’s not the goal, it’s to make a server that is as close to the classic EQ experience as possible with the resources available.

If people enjoy playing on it: Great!

If it is too difficult/unwieldy for many: That’s great too!

I get what the goal is, and I completely understand that none of this is democratic, put to a vote, or held to any community discussion or input.

--------Trolls can stop here (or continue reading to point out I'm an idiot and your'e superior, bla bla bla...).------------

That being said, it's not unlike King Midas wanting to change everything he touched into gold. The obsession with purity may leave you alone in regret when you realize your vision is shared by only a select few.

The decisions made to limit commonplace (in 2002 even) functionality and usability in the name of "classic" might as well include limiting processor speeds and graphics cards to what was available in 1999. Just put a block on login that checks VRAM and CPU speed, limit it to windows 95/98 OS's only.
Why not? My 4.4 gig proc sure as hell isn't classic. Windows 10 RTF out. 4G of vram, not using a PS/2 KB and Mouse, have a 4k monitor? tough shit. God forbid you use it on a laptop, that wasn't feasible.

Your comment "If it is too difficult/unwieldy for many: That’s great too!" is like saying, "remember that breakfast cereal you loved as a kid? You can have it again! BUT we're gonna have you sit at a table with your mom and your stepdad and discuss why you're failing history while watching reruns of ren and stipmy in the background, and you must find and use the same (or very similar) bowl and spoon you did on April 19, 1999. Otherwise, too bad!"

Almost everyone who wants to try that cereal again is going to look at the bs invloved to enjoy said cereal and say, "meh, never mind."

Where as saying, "remember that breakfast cereal you loved as a kid? Here it is, but available to consume in relatively the same form as any other cereal" is more along the lines of what I feel the majority of people who are currently playing would be far more inclined to do, and how I (at least) interpreted the goal of P99.

And FWIW never played a chanter, and don't really GAF about in what particular instance it's fair or not fair to use tab targeting in someones opinion. I'm just stating that the removal of simple things that either don't effect the game mechanics (UI customization/scaling) or minor impact (pulling tab targeting is pretty stupid) just seems petty and putting "vision" ahead of functionality and usability.

My opinion. I'm sharing it. Tear it apart if you want. Call me an idiot or say I've come to false conclusions or I clearly don't understand (input whatever tangential thing i clearly missed because "vision" or "classic" or "didn't happen till X/X/2000")...
I don't care, it's a game, and these are my thoughts on the evolution of it.

-encopitt

[encopitt]

All I read was, "I can't tab thru targets so I'm quitting."

And that's the problem.

-encopitt

[Deathrydar]

And that's the problem.

-encopitt

Well, we agree on one thing then.

[sacman08]

This is crazy, the classic way things worked is to F9 to a far view, pull the camera out as far as possible at an diagonal angle, then auto run. When you look away for 1 second, then you run into a red mob. That's EQ!

[El-Hefe]

Sounds like something I'll cook up this weekend and submit for Green.

I know exactly the situation this is referencing. Would be great to have it era locked.

Oh god, that's gonna be horrible.

I love it.

[Ashenden]

Sounds like something I'll cook up this weekend and submit for Green.

I know exactly the situation this is referencing. Would be great to have it era locked.

You are my hero. Make it clunky AF, just as Verant intended.

[Chortles Snort|eS]

Almost no one? You mean the four people that posted about it on these forums? Is that "no one"?

no one good at the game apparently

[Chortles Snort|eS]

It's fine if you're sitting still. Trying to run around is a different story. This is assuming you're using right click to steer

I quadded my way to 58 on live using F9

Sounds like another bad player alert 🚨

[Castamere]

I quadded my way to 58 on live using F9

Sounds like another bad player alert 🚨

Keep using ur arrow keys grandpa

[El-Hefe]

Your comment "If it is too difficult/unwieldy for many: That’s great too!" is like saying, "remember that breakfast cereal you loved as a kid? You can have it again! BUT we're gonna have you sit at a table with your mom and your stepdad and discuss why you're failing history while watching reruns of ren and stipmy in the background, and you must find and use the same (or very similar) bowl and spoon you did on April 19, 1999. Otherwise, too bad!"

No, that doesn't really work. You get to play in the comfort of your own home, playing with awesome 2020 PC equipment, you get to use high speed internet and we never have to deal with weekly server maintenance. You already get to enjoy the advancements of the last twenty years.

This is more like you had a favorite cereal, but it cut the roof of your mouth. But you ate it anyway because it was better than any other cereals before or since.

However, twenty years ago they changed the formula to prevent it from cutting the roof of your mouth, but in the process made the cereal taste terrible.

Now someone is looking to make a cereal that tastes as close as possible to that original great tasting cereal and all you can do is complain that it cuts the roof of your mouth again.

[Llandris]

You will now have the option to bind cycle through PC and NPC targets to a hot key of your choice. You can hit your select nearest target key at any time, during cycling, to reset the cycle. April 4th, 2004

[tacomagradd]

"You will now have the option to bind cycle through PC and NPC targets to a hot key of your choice. You can hit your select nearest target key at any time, during cycling, to reset the cycle."

April 4th, 2004

April 4th, 2004, roughly 5 years after 1999 release.

Blue launched in October 2009. Current date: September 30, 2019.

So it was "classic" to wait 5 years for tab target cycle. Twice that of time has elapsed on blue. By now we should have it anyway, right? ;)

I say this to point to the absurdity of trying to enforce timelines of classic on a server that has lived for 10 years, but refused to progress past Velius (a fine choice). Do the full blown classic thing on green with a fresh timeline, sure, that is the point. But what is the point of enforcing that on Blue now? Just my 2c.

[Deathrydar]

"You will now have the option to bind cycle through PC and NPC targets to a hot key of your choice. You can hit your select nearest target key at any time, during cycling, to reset the cycle."



April 4th, 2004, roughly 5 years after 1999 release.

Blue launched in October 2009. Current date: September 30, 2019.

So it was "classic" to wait 5 years for tab target cycle. Twice that of time has elapsed on blue. By now we should have it anyway, right? ;)

I say this to point to the absurdity of trying to enforce timelines of classic on a server that has lived for 10 years, but refused to progress past Velius (a fine choice). Do the full blown classic thing on green with a fresh timeline, sure, that is the point. But what is the point of enforcing that on Blue now? Just my 2c.

Rogean already stated they will talk about keeping blue one way and green another in this fashion. Relax.

[fastboy21]

This server has nothing to do with classic so one more random change means nothing.

I'm pretty sure that it has something to do with classic.

As to all the people that can't hack it in real classic good news: play a rogue. I'm being tongue and cheek, but casters were a PITA to play in classic compared to melee and this is only one of the reasons why. One of the biggest balances on classes like chanter on live classic is that the UI was clumsy and mostly bad.

There is a reason why "good" enchanters and bards were rare in real classic...and a reason why good cc was hard to come by.

If you can't hang don't roll your chanter on day 1...wait till it gets easy mode later on.

I hope they keep it out for green launch.

[sedrie.bellamie]

please use the .dll to stop p99 from loading if people have voice comms going

ban skype, discord, teamspeak, mumble, ventrillo

better ban winEQ2, playing window mode is not classic

[El-Hefe]

Rogean already stated they will talk about keeping blue one way and green another in this fashion. Relax.

I hope the talk goes like this:

“Should we revert the server back to being easier Rogean?“

“....no.”

[Jadian]

please use the .dll to stop p99 from loading if people have voice comms going

ban skype, discord, teamspeak, mumble, ventrillo

better ban winEQ2, playing window mode is not classic

"I"m suffering, make someone else suffer too daddy!"

[fastboy21]

"I"m suffering, make someone else suffer too daddy!"

damn skippy. burn the whole thing down; I'd rather play my fiddle by the soft fiery glow of classic p99 then watch another server turn into a beta for ProjectGreen2.0

[Tyronius of Midnight]

Better hope he doesn't find a way to limit the camera view.

Also, /guildwar was classic. Please get this in ASAP.

[GnomeCaptain]

This sort of makes me feel like a badass.

I'm a pretty boss Chanter, and never knew about tab-targeting.

And I got accustomed to no pet window pretty quickly.

BRING IT ON GREEN!
COME GET SOME, AN AVIAK GUARD!

[Chortles Snort|eS]

Keep using ur arrow keys grandpa

You mean auto-run and mouse look? 🤔

[DromalPhrenia]

I'll care a lot more about whether things are 'classic' or not when dragons are unrooted and aoe limits are removed. Blue already has custom changes, removing things that players enjoy because of 'classic' is absurd at this point.

[Madbad]

please use the .dll to stop p99 from loading if people have voice comms going

ban skype, discord, teamspeak, mumble, ventrillo

better ban winEQ2, playing window mode is not classic

Stop, stop my dick can only get so hard

[Ashenden]

please use the .dll to stop p99 from loading if people have voice comms going
You're funny. I was chatting with people over VoIP via Mplayer.com before EQ even existed.

[kaizersoze]

Better get to /targetting

[aaezil]

You're funny. I was chatting with people over VoIP via Mplayer.com before EQ even existed.

Cute - i was talking to people with telegraphs before you were even born!

[Zuranthium]

Is there an argument to be made for green vs blue? Sure. I'll discuss it internally.

Why should blue get special features (unless it's going to be a custom content server)? It was very strange the way you quickly backpeddled on the pet window, which shouldn't be there. Same goes for UI. So what if people have to adjust. Eventually they will.

[El-Hefe]

Why should blue get special features (unless it's going to be a custom content server)? It was very strange the way you quickly backpeddled on the pet window, which shouldn't be there. Same goes for UI. So what if people have to adjust. Eventually they will.

I genuinely think there is a small cadre of endgame raiders that'll never leave blue.

They'll just keep raiding the same stuff with the same people... over and over... forever.

They don't like change, they want their weird quasi-classic nonsense and the pixels they've been hording every day for ten years.

The only downside of letting Blue remain a weird raider backwater is I don't really want my classic toons rolled in with the EZ PZ ruleset after green ends.

[Gumbo]

As I mentioned in the other thread... Permafrost Bear Pit days are over for Druids if we can't have tab target cycle. There is just too many things to do and have it work by trying to mouse click on everything...

[Nirgon]

Pls guildwar just like Brad intended

[tsuchang]

PUT IT BACK. DO IT NOW!

[soronil]

PUT IT BACK. DO IT NOW!

They did. Keep up PIATS.

[Rooj]

As I mentioned in the other thread... Permafrost Bear Pit days are over for Druids if we can't have tab target cycle. There is just too many things to do and have it work by trying to mouse click on everything...

How was it done during era?

[kaizersoze]

How was it done during era?

they probably didn't.

[walfreyydo]

I tested last night and tab targetting works fine for me 9/30/19

[Mblake81]

How was it done during era?

they probably didn't.

Click them with the mouse.

I used the space bar to jump but had to take my hand off the mouse to cross over my direction hand.Original EQ came with movement bound to the numberpad iirc. (https://youtu.be/-l93daYpKY8?t=17) I changed these to arrow keys because it made more sense at the time. Didn't know about WASD yet.

[Mblake81]

WASD feels inevitable today. Once mouselook became standard in 3D games, it made little sense (at least for right-handed players) to hold your left arm across your chest to reach the arrow keys. (https://www.pcgamer.com/how-wasd-became-the-standard-pc-control-scheme/) The WASD keys were more comfortable, and offered easy access to Shift and Space. But even though WASD seems like the obvious choice now, far fewer players used it 20 years ago.

Note: What does movement have to do with targeting monsters you ask? it is related to how you interacted with the game controls.

[zaneosak]

please use the .dll to stop p99 from loading if people have voice comms going

ban skype, discord, teamspeak, mumble, ventrillo

better ban winEQ2, playing window mode is not classic

Now this is some shit I can get behind. I never used voice comms until way after I quit EQ during post-Planes of Power. We raided Vindi thru PoTime with typing. I'd love to not have to get on a discord when I go raid halls of testing in P99.

[Mblake81]

Now this is some shit I can get behind. I never used voice comms until way after I quit EQ during post-Planes of Power. We raided Vindi thru PoTime with typing. I'd love to not have to get on a discord when I go raid halls of testing in P99.

I would support that on Green server. Blue is too ingrained in its ways.

[Deathrydar]

Now this is some shit I can get behind. I never used voice comms until way after I quit EQ during post-Planes of Power. We raided Vindi thru PoTime with typing. I'd love to not have to get on a discord when I go raid halls of testing in P99.

I despise voice chats and I only sit in discord to slake my lust while I can't play.

It kills my immersion. One thing I like to do is just read the text in my chat window and picture it coming from the player's pixeled graphic, not a real life person.

I know.....it's corny, but it works for me and I am normally cracking up when I am in the zone!

[Mblake81]

I despise voice chats and I only sit in discord to slake my lust while I can't play.

It kills my immersion. One thing I like to do is just read the text in my chat window and picture it coming from the player's pixeled graphic, not a real life person.

I know.....it's corny, but it works for me and I am normally cracking up when I am in the zone!

Nah, that's how its supposed to be. :)

A real person over voice is not going to sound like a hobbit talking about his love of jum.

[loramin]

Guys it's not like you can't target things anymore :(

Look, I summed up the other ways (and when I say "I", I really mean Danth and Daldaen did all the work, and I copied their efforts) on this wiki page: http://wiki.project1999.com/Targeting

I've done bear pits to 60 with my Druid, so while I haven't done it since the patch ... it's not like I'm talking without experience when I say: anyone who thinks it's impossible without cycle targeting really isn't trying very hard.

Tab still works, it just selects the closest. If you want to target a different mob, it simply means that you have to move a little between Tab presses (or you have to mouse click).

That's not hard to do when you have a bunch of bears rooted in place. It's seriously not:

https://i.imgur.com/D66cHpl.png

[Izmael]

Loramin, Rogean already reverted the change on Blue (keeping it on Green, which is IMO great).
The point is now therefore moot.

On Blue people will continue to be able to play with mostly the keyboard - relaxing, laid back type play.

On Green, you'll have to go through more classic loops and targeting will be a clickfest. Annoying, but expected, on Green.

Everyone is happy. Hardcore classic adepts have Green, rest of the people (I guesstimate it at 99% give or take), have Blue.

If someone still finds a way to be unhappy now, it's probably safe to file them under "boring and never-content stoner".

[loramin]

Loramin, Rogean already reverted the change on Blue (keeping it on Green, which is IMO great) ...
On Green, you'll have to go through more classic loops and targeting will be a clickfest. Annoying, but expected, on Green.

Right, but my point is, Bear Pits will not be impossible on Green. Anyone who thinks that you need cycle targeting to do Bear Pits is wrong IMHO.

We had other targeting mechanisms back in classic, and we used them damnit! (After walking five miles, both ways uphill, in the snow ... which is an expression I love to use in general when I'm sounding like a cantankerous old man, but it's actually especially applicable talking about Permafrost :))

[Deathrydar]

Right, but my point is, Bear Pits will not be impossible on Green. Anyone who thinks that you need cycle targeting to do Bear Pits is wrong IMHO.

^^

[skipdog]

When do we get our forced 640x480 window with the original UI?

Because if the devs aren't working towards that and don't have plans to implement that, it's hard to get behind changes like this.

[Mblake81]

When do we get our forced 640x480 window with the original UI?

Because if the devs aren't working towards that and don't have plans to implement that, it's hard to get behind changes like this.

Doesn't work the same on LCD as it does on CRT

CRTs fundamentally use analog technology. A pixel was simply a place on the CRT where the electron beam was modulated to make a square-ish spot. Because of this, all supported resolutions typically were similarly crisp (or similarly fuzzy, depending on your perspective).

LCDs are digital. A pixel is essentially a tiny square of all one color, like filling in a picture using graph paper. When using the native resolution, each pixel is extremely crisp.

However, if you try to use a lower resolution, unless it is an integer multiple of the native resolution, then each requested pixel will not fit exactly into a display pixel, this causes lumpy bumpy displays with lines and text being distorted.

[loramin]

Doesn't work the same on LCD as it does on CRT

:D

Also, there has long been a very clear dividing line here: they don't try to mess with your environment, just the game.

Totally unclassic Discord? Allowed.
Totally unclassic Gina (you could read logs, but you couldn't overlay on top of the EQ client in classic) ? Allowed.
Any sort of unclassic new-fangled keyboard/mouse/joystick/gamepad? Allowed ... unless you use it to do something in the game that you couldn't do in classic, then it's banned.

There's an obvious reason why they draw that line: they can control the game, but they can't (seriously) control your environment. There's some small gray area (like their anti-cheat which technically runs outside the game itself), but it's pretty straightforward: they don't try to mess with your environment (the anti-cheat is only used to make sure you don't cheat in-game).

Clearly screen resolution is environmental, and there's nothing hypocritical about them having a logical line and sticking to it.

Oh, and if you want to argue in-game resolution only, A) they have practical limitations (I'm really not sure they even know how to force a resolution within Titanium), and B) even if they can, it's not like players in classic only ran 640x480 either :p

[Mblake81]

True, we didn't all use the same res as that was dependent on your preferences and what your machine could handle. But the original devs did force an environment on us, we all ran the same UI. Toggled or not. We were all defined by what it could and could no do.

These devs are more liberal and perhaps they can't force something with Titanium, it would be understandable considering its limitations. But if they did figure out a way it would not be wrong to make it across the board but scalable to the resolution you are using just like original did.

[Treehorn]

Honestly this change is not that big of a deal. It's not like it makes doing certain content impossible. It basically just forces people to pay more attention and makes it more difficult for a single Enchanter to lock down a ton of mobs quickly. Most of the whining is coming from Enchanters who are mad they won't be able to solo farm high end cash camps as safely and efficienty as they did before. As usual, most of the vociferous objections to classic mechanics can be traced back to an insatiable lust for easy pixels, an affliction which has sadly taken over the minds of many within our P1999 community.

I disagree on some points. For me, this change makes for ‘the wrong kind’ of challenging, especially in the context of normal group grinding.

I love the enchanter class. It’s always been my favourite, to be the group’s safety net, always mindful of every danger, keeping track of each mob, and intuitively knowing when shit is about to hit the fan before it actually does. That’s the challenge of the class that I love. That’s the skill that makes “good CC rare to find”.

Taking away that difficulty, for the difficulty of clicking on pixels by shimmying around and mashing my mouse button, is not my idea of fun. It’s also not my idea of skill. It trades the intensity and difficulty of managing the dangerous circumstances of battle, for the arbitrary frustration of poorly designed controls. It’s “difficult” in the way that old NES games are difficult, rather than the way Dark Souls is.

I’m a casual player who never made it past 55. Not on my pre-Kunark enchanter, nor my P1999 enchanter. I just love the game, love playing with friends, and love the challenge of holding down a hurricane of mayhem with mind magic. I don’t care about cash farming, or the speed at which I can lock down mobs. I just want to have fun. This change makes the game much less fun.

This is also an accessibility issue. Gamers with physical disabilities, even issues as common as arthritis, are now being disabled from playing the game that they love. My RL friend has MS. He tried playing on beta with tab targeting gone. For him, it’s now truly and completely unplayable.

We were really stoked to play together in a static group of 4 other RL friends. We’ve been waiting for the green server for years. We’ve been vibrating with excitement since it was announced. Now, we’re all questioning whether or not we’ll play, if he can’t be part of it. And I’m sure he’s not alone. How many people have to be excluded from playing altogether, so that a small number of privileged people can have a more narrowly defined gameplay loop?

I understand the striving for the “truest classic experience”. I’m on board with 99% of it. But this one, I don’t agree with.

[Bannen]

Feels like a small minority is taking "classic" a little too far. I played EQ on launch day and for years after. The game was hard. Breaking an orc camp at level 10 has more strategy than new MMO's have at end game. Love it.

I'm really looking forward to the green launch but it has nothing to do with missing bad UI, bad targeting, and bad choices such as staring at a spell book. I miss having people at leveling levels to group with. I miss the classic item drops. I miss having the old zones populated.

I don't miss the bad parts that frankly sucked and were changed for a reason.

[kabouter]

I agree to a certain extent, I mean mouse targeting just doesn't work that well (having to click multiple times before the system registers the target). But it might turn out to be more fun, in the sense that crowd control will be harder and group encounters aren't trivialised.

Sadly a lot of enchanter dungeon soloing that was difficult before will be pretty much impossible on green.

I do truly feel for your friend, but we can't expect the staff to keep in all the QoL changes so it is more friendly towards players with disabilities. Isn't there another class he can play?

[kaizersoze]

Oh fucking please, you can still play an enchanter. You just need your pullers to not be retarded and pull like 30 mobs and actually keep tabs on your spawn timers. Throw out an AoE mez, break them one at a time, and lock the others down with single mez afterward.

[Jimjam]

Sadly a lot of enchanter dungeon soloing that was difficult before will be pretty much impossible on green.

Sadly? Its an mmo! You're meant to be taking the other players into dungeons to farm items with them, not do everything solo and treat those players as npc vendors to buy the spoils of your soloing...

[Gustoo]

Tab should cycle between self and nearest NPC.

Its funny how much changes with a little change. How a UI change ends up being a class balancing change. Good stuff.

[Jimjam]

*self and previous target.

Thats how my client is set up. Tidl was cycle through closest npc for me.

[kabouter]

Sadly? Its an mmo! You're meant to be taking the other players into dungeons to farm items with them, not do everything solo and treat those players as npc vendors to buy the spoils of your soloing...

Still fun though, especially when you want to explore some of the dungeons that aren't popular. But I get your criticism.

[LostCause]

it's not too bad just setup key for closet target better then click target lol

they need to remove scroll out camera too.. should be first person other then using f9

[3d_glasses]

I disagree on some points. For me, this change makes for ‘the wrong kind’ of challenging, especially in the context of normal group grinding.

I love the enchanter class. It’s always been my favourite, to be the group’s safety net, always mindful of every danger, keeping track of each mob, and intuitively knowing when shit is about to hit the fan before it actually does. That’s the challenge of the class that I love. That’s the skill that makes “good CC rare to find”.

Taking away that difficulty, for the difficulty of clicking on pixels by shimmying around and mashing my mouse button, is not my idea of fun. It’s also not my idea of skill. It trades the intensity and difficulty of managing the dangerous circumstances of battle, for the arbitrary frustration of poorly designed controls. It’s “difficult” in the way that old NES games are difficult, rather than the way Dark Souls is.

I’m a casual player who never made it past 55. Not on my pre-Kunark enchanter, nor my P1999 enchanter. I just love the game, love playing with friends, and love the challenge of holding down a hurricane of mayhem with mind magic. I don’t care about cash farming, or the speed at which I can lock down mobs. I just want to have fun. This change makes the game much less fun.

This is also an accessibility issue. Gamers with physical disabilities, even issues as common as arthritis, are now being disabled from playing the game that they love. My RL friend has MS. He tried playing on beta with tab targeting gone. For him, it’s now truly and completely unplayable.

We were really stoked to play together in a static group of 4 other RL friends. We’ve been waiting for the green server for years. We’ve been vibrating with excitement since it was announced. Now, we’re all questioning whether or not we’ll play, if he can’t be part of it. And I’m sure he’s not alone. How many people have to be excluded from playing altogether, so that a small number of privileged people can have a more narrowly defined gameplay loop?

I understand the striving for the “truest classic experience”. I’m on board with 99% of it. But this one, I don’t agree with.

You admit its harder and yet deny it requires more skill. I'm also confused about your claim that it is poorly designed, as opposed to what? The real life experience of casting spells and fighting monsters? Ive got a solution for you: don't play it.

[Deathrydar]

I'm also confused about your claim that it is poorly designed, as opposed to what? The real life experience of casting spells and fighting monsters?

Uhh, yeah! Have you ever tried to do this IRL? I cannot even beat my cat and it cons green.

[slowpoke68]

But remember guys classic EQ wasn't harder at all, we were all just a bunch of idiots who didn't know how to play.

Tab targeting definitely not classic. Will be tough to adjust to, but c'est la vie. Not the end of the world. Not putting a damper at all on my excitement for green.

[Vexenu]

EQ is not suddenly unplayable because target cycling is no longer in game. You can still Tab target the nearest NPC, which is perfectly functional for most situations and classes. Removal of target cycling was mostly just an Enchanter nerf. Most other classes were not majorly impacted. The idea that a disabled person who was playing fine before, but now suddenly can't play at all is nonsense. At the very worst maybe they can't break difficult camps solo as an Enchanter anymore? But neither will many other fully-abled Enchanters for that matter. He can always play another class. Pretty sure a quadraplaegic who controls the mouse with his tongue could play a grouping Mage, for example. P1999 is probably the most handicapped accessible MMO out there due to the abundance of low APM classes.

[3d_glasses]

Treehorn also changed his comment to include the personal information about his friend... The comment i read only mentioned disabled people in general. Maybe the devs would work out an exemption for your friend... theyre pretty understanding fellows.

[astuce999]

My apologies good sir.

I always took pride in efficiency and being able to manage dangerous situations quickly. And most of the people I gamed with during my time did as well. It was fun being with top performers. And it allowed you to get shit done other people couldn’t if they weren’t performing at the same levels. It also gave people the opportunity to be better. This is a step in the wrong direction for a community that already has no shortage of baddies playing. Good for your classic purist stoner tho.

You could have just said "good for stuce"

Astuce :)

<3 Mead

[Treehorn]

You admit its harder and yet deny it requires more skill. I'm also confused about your claim that it is poorly designed, as opposed to what? The real life experience of casting spells and fighting monsters? Ive got a solution for you: don't play it.
Which is harder, to cook spaghetti, or compose a violin concerto? Which requires more skill?

Now cut off your hands, and try to cook the spaghetti.

Cooking spaghetti without hands is hard in a different way. That doesn’t mean it requires more skill. It means it requires more endurance for frustration.

But I guess I’m the asshole for wanting to play violin. Some seem to have forgotten that the attitude of “if you don’t like the changes I want, don’t play this game”, is how we ended up with Luclin and PoP.

EQ is not suddenly unplayable because target cycling is no longer in game. You can still Tab target the nearest NPC, which is perfectly functional for most situations and classes. Removal of target cycling was mostly just an Enchanter nerf. Most other classes were not majorly impacted. The idea that a disabled person who was playing fine before, but now suddenly can't play at all is nonsense. At the very worst maybe they can't break difficult camps solo as an Enchanter anymore? But neither will many other fully-abled Enchanters for that matter. He can always play another class. Pretty sure a quadraplaegic who controls the mouse with his tongue could play a grouping Mage, for example. P1999 is probably the most handicapped accessible MMO out there due to the abundance of low APM classes.

There’s a Karana of difference between a person living with disability to manage through one or two pulls, and sustaining through 30+ minutes at a time. My friend can barely grip a mouse. He can make a left click, but not with precision. Click targeting for him is a major challenge. He was playing on a mage.

I agree that EQ, with tab targeting, is an extremely accessible MMO. That’s one of the reasons we all played Blue in the first place.

Treehorn also changed his comment to include the personal information about his friend... The comment i read only mentioned disabled people in general. Maybe the devs would work out an exemption for your friend... theyre pretty understanding fellows.

I didn’t want to tell his story without permission. It was a really hard emotional thing — there’s not many games he can play so he was really looking forward to green. The reason he was happy for me to include more personal details, is specifically that there are many more people like him who either won’t be able to play, won’t be able to play nearly as much, or for whom playing will be an exercise in painful frustration, because of the removal of tab targeting.

It is what it is.

[Vexenu]

You seem to be confused about the nature of the nerf. You can still target the nearest mob with a keyboard bind. You just can't cycle through nearby targets with a keystroke. You can still /assist with one button press. There is zero reason why your disabled friend cannot play a Mage on Green. He might not be able to do some more complicated solo splits using root nets or handle adds as well as before. But he can easily group or duo with a Mage and lose basically zero effectiveness from this nerf. I know that for a fact because I barely ever used cycle targeting on my Mage.

[cd288]

Didn't people post links earlier in this thread showing that cycle targeting was in the game at some point in 1999?

[3d_glasses]

Which is harder, to cook spaghetti, or compose a violin concerto? Which requires more skill?

Now cut off your hands, and try to cook the spaghetti.

Cooking spaghetti without hands is hard in a different way. That doesn’t mean it requires more skill. It means it requires more endurance for frustration.

But I guess I’m the asshole for wanting to play violin. Some seem to have forgotten that the attitude of “if you don’t like the changes I want, don’t play this game”, is how we ended up with Luclin and PoP.



There’s a Karana of difference between a person living with disability to manage through one or two pulls, and sustaining through 30+ minutes at a time. My friend can barely grip a mouse. He can make a left click, but not with precision. Click targeting for him is a major challenge. He was playing on a mage.

I agree that EQ, with tab targeting, is an extremely accessible MMO. That’s one of the reasons we all played Blue in the first place.



I didn’t want to tell his story without permission. It was a really hard emotional thing — there’s not many games he can play so he was really looking forward to green. The reason he was happy for me to include more personal details, is specifically that there are many more people like him who either won’t be able to play, won’t be able to play nearly as much, or for whom playing will be an exercise in painful frustration, because of the removal of tab targeting.

It is what it is.

That is a pretty ridiculous comparison. If i understand correctly: you are a person with no hands and you're trying to understand which is harder to do: cook spaghetti or compose a violin concerto. This is the reason why there is a clearly objective way the targeting system with mouse could be deemed as poor? Youre lambasting me because I am trying to take away your hands or take away your ability to achieve some kind of nuance hands provide? Again you prove an insufficient argument: what is it that is logically binding your strange double metaphor to skill against the lack of tab targeting? Can i not throw it back at you - the skill and use of a mouse requires the finesse of a violin player, without it we are playing the game like brutish pasta chefs.
This completely ignores the fact that musical composition can be done without an instrument or even hands....but please the obvious loss of musical virtuosity is the sad fate of a handless spaghetti maker

[Jimjam]

Didn't people post links earlier in this thread showing that cycle targeting was in the game at some point in 1999?

No.

Lots of people confusing cycle targeting and true classic tab targeting though.

If you think you need to use a mouse to get most the targeting done in the absence of cycle closest npc then you are bad at eq, should feel bad and don't deserve cycle target.

Work on the rp elements of your toon.

That is a pretty ridiculous comparison. If i understand correctly: you are a person with no hands and you're trying to understand which is harder to do: cook spaghetti or compose a violin concerto. This is the reason why there is a clearly objective way the targeting system with mouse could be deemed as poor? Youre lambasting me because I am trying to take away your hands or take away your ability to achieve some kind of nuance hands provide? Again you prove an insufficient argument: what is it that is logically binding your strange double metaphor to skill against the lack of tab targeting? Can i not throw it back at you - the skill and use of a mouse requires the finesse of a violin player, without it we are playing the game like brutish pasta chefs.
This completely ignores the fact that musical composition can be done without an instrument or even hands....but please the obvious loss of musical virtuosity is the sad fate of a handless spaghetti maker



I like how he switched from compose (easy buy in) and moved them goalposts to play (better supports his argument).

[cd288]

No.

Lots of people confusing cycle targeting and true classic tab targeting though.

If you think you need to use a mouse to get most the targeting done in the absence of cycle closest npc then you are bad at eq, should feel bad and don't deserve cycle target.

Work on the rp elements of your toon.

Cool, so I ask a simple question for clarification and get insulted in response. Seems logical. Guess I ran into one of the pricks on the server :D

[Jimjam]

Yes. But i am 3rd mob deep so you can't get a target on me.

[FishBait01]

no tab targeting is aids.

Can't imagine playing a chanter on green.

mouseclicking is disgusting, I feel like one of those disphits that clack their spell gems to cast

[soronil]

This is also an accessibility issue. Gamers with physical disabilities, even issues as common as arthritis, are now being disabled from playing the game that they love. My RL friend has MS. He tried playing on beta with tab targeting gone. For him, it’s now truly and completely unplayable.

The reason he was happy for me to include more personal details, is specifically that there are many more people like him who either won’t be able to play, won’t be able to play nearly as much, or for whom playing will be an exercise in painful frustration, because of the removal of tab targeting.

It is what it is.

I am sorry that your friend is sick. That is terrible. But your comments are asinine.

Target cycling helps SOME situations using SOME strategies with SOME classes.

Why doesn't your friend play any of the 7+ classes that simply need to /assist tank?
Why don't you guys utilize one of the many comps / pulling strategies that are able to consistently solo pull?
Why can't your friend literally walk 5 feet over to put the mob he wants to target closest to him?
How was your friend able to determine with minimal beta testing that the game was "utterly and completely unplayable"?

If you guys want to play together, there are so many ways to make it work.

[Jimjam]

no tab targeting is aids.

Can't imagine playing a chanter on green.

mouseclicking is disgusting, I feel like one of those disphits that clack their spell gems to cast

You're thinking of cycle targetting. Vanilla has tab targetting. Don't use mouse, use keyboard commands, positioning and manipulation of mob logic and pathing.

[Treehorn]

That is a pretty ridiculous comparison. If i understand correctly: you are a person with no hands and you're trying to understand which is harder to do: cook spaghetti or compose a violin concerto. This is the reason why there is a clearly objective way the targeting system with mouse could be deemed as poor? Youre lambasting me because I am trying to take away your hands or take away your ability to achieve some kind of nuance hands provide? Again you prove an insufficient argument: what is it that is logically binding your strange double metaphor to skill against the lack of tab targeting? Can i not throw it back at you - the skill and use of a mouse requires the finesse of a violin player, without it we are playing the game like brutish pasta chefs.
This completely ignores the fact that musical composition can be done without an instrument or even hands....but please the obvious loss of musical virtuosity is the sad fate of a handless spaghetti maker

I'm not sure if you're deliberately misconstruing what I've been saying, or just failing to understand.

I'm personally content with the idea of having to mouseclick, in one respect. It allows the players who are the most skillful AND adaptable to rise above the rest, and stand-out. In some respects it increases the challenge, and therefore makes the game even more rewarding. But the game is already extremely rewarding and challenging, with tab targeted included. Tab targeting removes one aspect of the challenge, there's no doubt. But it's a shitty challenge. It's clunky, frustrating controls that were quickly done away with in live, because they made the game far less fun on an hour-to-hour basis. Because yes, it raises the skill-floor. But it also lowers the skill-ceiling. That's what you seem to be missing from the violin/spaghetti analogy, whether intentionally or unintentionally.

It is not possible to be as effective at crowd control without tab targeting, as it is with tab targeting. In a perfect group, with an experienced, component tank, using multiple keyboard commands? Sure. But that isn’t the reality of P1999 for the vast majority of players and groups. Tab targeting permits sublime and skillful CC when the worst-case scenarios happen, when people mess up or aren’t optimal, masterful players. This is the majority of the EQ experience for the majority of players. The server stats show most people never hit raiding level, and primarily grind in PUGs. I can say from my casual experience playing mid-level on blue at three points (beginning, middle and end of the beta cycle), that it's extraordinarily rare to find a player who doesn't regularly make mistakes.

Tab targeting is the hands that allow for skillful, rewarding crowd control in the unpredictable environment that we usually find ourselves in. Mouse clicking is the blunt instrument that reduces us all to pasta boiling. There is no finesse to it. There is endurance of the frustration.

You're thinking of cycle targetting. Vanilla has tab targetting. Don't use mouse, use keyboard commands, positioning and manipulation of mob logic and pathing. Maybe you know something I don't... which keyboard commands are you referring to, beyond those listed here (https://wiki.project1999.com/Commands) and here (https://wiki.project1999.com/Advanced_Techniques_Guide)?

I am sorry that your friend is sick. That is terrible. But your comments are asinine.

Target cycling helps SOME situations using SOME strategies with SOME classes.

Why doesn't your friend play any of the 7+ classes that simply need to /assist tank?
Why don't you guys utilize one of the many comps / pulling strategies that are able to consistently solo pull?
Why can't your friend literally walk 5 feet over to put the mob he wants to target closest to him?
How was your friend able to determine with minimal beta testing that the game was "utterly and completely unplayable"?

If you guys want to play together, there are so many ways to make it work.
1) To repeat, it's not an issue of a one-off hypothetical situation. It's an issue of hour-by-hour, realistic gameplay reality.
2) It's not just my friend, it's a significant percentage of the player base that is less privileged than the very few who a) post frequently on the forums b) 'master' the game to the point where they've lost touch with the gameplay experience of the majority.

[Izmael]

Guys, you're beating an old horse.

Rogean reenabled cycling on blue and confirmed it will be disabled on green.

You all can resume your regular activities.

[Treehorn]

Cool, so I ask a simple question for clarification and get insulted in response. Seems logical. Guess I ran into one of the pricks on the server :D
This is the bummer that's 10x bigger than the loss of tab targeting: the server community seems to have devolved to the point where anyone transgressing the current herd mentality, is to be bullied into leaving.

It's literally the polar opposite of what community leaders like Kraddok, and indeed Rogean, have pointed out as the brightest and most joyful aspects of P1999.

Guys, you're beating an old horse.

It is what it is.
The ones voicing alternative views are not the ones doing the beating here, fam.

[3d_glasses]

Guys, you're beating an old horse.

Rogean reenabled cycling on blue and confirmed it will be disabled on green.

You all can resume your regular activities.

Agreed. Im sorry Treehorn but no amount of bizarre aggrandizement is going to change the above fact. Cycle targeting is easier to accomplish your goal in a high stress situation - having to use aim, and focus through the mouse or direction keys is more difficult. Parts of the brain shut down when hit with panic and over coming that is what separates the violin player from the pasta chef, not the other way around.
If you want to talk about disabled players being able to enjoy a game that is a separate discussion

[3d_glasses]

This is the bummer that's 10x bigger than the loss of tab targeting: the server community seems to have devolved to the point where anyone transgressing the current herd mentality, is to be bullied into leaving.

It's literally the polar opposite of what community leaders like Kraddok, and indeed Rogean, have pointed out as the brightest and most joyful aspects of P1999.




The ones voicing alternative views are not the ones doing the beating here, fam.

How many times are you going to edit your comment? Yes I'm sorry I could not discern the brilliant points of your violin player pasta chef mouse clicking tab cycle analogy. It is surely a fault of my own. Everything you just said about it is exactly my point and no losing cycle targeting doesnt lower a ceiling of skill.

[Treehorn]

Cycle targeting is easier to accomplish your goal in a high stress situation - having to use aim, and focus through the mouse or direction keys is more difficult. Parts of the brain shut down when hit with panic and over coming that is what separates the violin player from the pasta chef, not the other way around.This might be true the first time it happens to someone. The next 123098214092834 times, not so much. Mouseclicking isn't finesse, it's endurance of the awkward. It's not Dark Souls, it's Silver Surfer. It's not difficulty, it's frustration. We clearly disagree on this point. That's fine. We don't have to agree on everything.

If you want to talk about disabled players being able to enjoy a game that is a separate discussion
Just as regular traffic hours are the wrong time to have a discussion about whether black lives matter, or the work place is the wrong time to have a discussion about whether women should be paid fairly, or the aftermath of a school shooting is the wrong time to talk about gun rights.

Funny how when it comes to equality, it's always a separate discussion from the things that aren't equal.

How many times are you going to edit your comment?
Do you see "edited" on the comment you replied to? No?

Agreed. Im sorry Treehorn but no amount of bizarre aggrandizement is going to change the above fact.
I conceded the point as settled like 16 posts ago, mate. You're the one taking offense that anyone's questioned your privilege, continuing the argument further. No one is forcing you to make the final rebuttal.

[3d_glasses]

BTW you can still TAB target

[soronil]

BTW you can still TAB target

But you need to bind "target nearest NPC" to TAB (the default is f8 or something)

[Treehorn]

But you need to bind "target nearest NPC" to TAB (the default is f8 or something)
Yeah, this is what I did, and what my friend tried. It works reasonably well for 90% of gameplay situations.

[3d_glasses]

This might be true the first time it happens to someone. The next 123098214092834 times, not so much. Mouseclicking isn't finesse, it's endurance of the awkward. It's not Dark Souls, it's Silver Surfer. It's not difficulty, it's frustration. We clearly disagree on this point. That's fine. We don't have to agree on everything.


Just as regular traffic hours are the wrong time to have a discussion about whether black lives matter, or the work place is the wrong time to have a discussion about whether women should be paid fairly, or the aftermath of a school shooting is the wrong time to talk about gun rights.

Funny how when it comes to equality, it's always a separate discussion from the things that aren't equal.


Do you see "edited" on the comment you replied to? No?


I conceded the point as settled like 16 posts ago, mate. You're the one taking offense that anyone's questioned your privilege, continuing the argument further. No one is forcing you to make the final rebuttal.

I thought you'd like to know I understand what you're saying, you seem to be having trouble understanding me. It only took you four some odd comments to back handedly admit we agree and now you sit there accusing me of not wanting to talk about the way to help a disabled person enjoy the game. I said another discussion meaning lets not confuse a disagreement about the controls of a video game with the hope that a game can be enjoyed by the lesser privileged. We have disagreeing about what constitutes finesse in a game - not that there couldn't be an exception to some control for some person with a disability or did you miss my saying that? Its pretty low that you would throw some backwards ass shit at me like I don't care deeply about the Black Lives Matter Movement or Women's having to deal with constant sexual harassment because we disagree about controls in a video game.

[Treehorn]

I thought you'd like to know I understand what you're saying, you seem to be having trouble understanding me. It only took you four some odd comments to back handedly admit we agree and now you sit there accusing me of not wanting to talk about the way to help a disabled person enjoy the game. I said another discussion meaning lets not confuse a disagreement about the controls of a video game with the hope that a game can be enjoyed by the lesser priveleged. We have disagreeing about what constitutes finesse in a game - not that there couldn't be an exception to some control for some person with a disability or did you miss my saying that?

Its pretty low that you would throw some backwards ass shit at me like I don't care deeply about the Black Lives Matter Movement or Women's having to deal with constant sexual harassment because we disagree about controls in a video game.
It didn't take me four comments, it took me one reply to you. Go back and read it. What do you interpret "It is what it is" to mean, other than a concession of agreeing to disagree?

You sure do read deeply into things, and add quite a lot that isn't there. Have you considered seeing a therapist? They can help a lot with this sort of anxiety.

I didn't say you didn't care about those things. Given your demonstrated ableism and blindness to privilege, if I had to make a wager, I wouldn't guess that social equity is a top priority for you. But I didn't even suggest that you don't care about those things; I highlighted the trend of privileged people commonly disqualifying the pursuit of equality by always calling it a "separate discussion".

You attacked the notion of having a conversation about the continued accessibility to a game for less abled players, and tried to disqualify the discussion as being irrelevant to the topic of it's unfairness. Those comments are there, and quoted.

[3d_glasses]

It didn't take me four comments, it took me one reply to you. Go back and read it. What do you interpret "It is what it is" to mean, other than a concession of agreeing to disagree?

You sure do read deeply into things, and add quite a lot that isn't there. Have you considered seeing a therapist? They can help a lot with this sort of anxiety.

I didn't say you didn't care about those things. Given your demonstrated ableism and blindness to privilege, if I had to make a wager, I wouldn't guess that social equity is a top priority for you. But I didn't even suggest that you don't care about those things; I highlighted the trend of privileged people commonly disqualifying the pursuit of equality by always calling it a "separate discussion".

You attacked the notion of having a conversation about the continued accessibility to a game for less abled players, and tried to disqualify the discussion as being irrelevant to the topic of it's unfairness. Those comments are there, and quoted.

I think this is really messed up - do you really believe the things you are saying to me now or you just hate having your opinions mocked this much?