Am I crazy for wanting to play a rogue on green?

[Verityn]

First off, forgive me for this post. Even I'm annoyed with myself at how much thought I'm putting into this.

I just want to make sure I'm thinking clearly here. I've always wanted to play a rogue and I think starting on a fresh new server with lots of similar level players will allow me to do it.

Here are some reasons that I'm thinking supports my choice.

I don't like to solo. Even when I played a druid to 50 back in the day I spent most of the time in full groups. At 45 I had a hard time getting groups so I soloed guards to 50 and that was the most boring experience I've had in this game.

I love dungeons and I love the idea of sneaking through them. I could see myself helping a lot of people with corpse recovery during my down time or even my own corpses. I've certainly lost gear because I couldn't get my corpse back in time.

Even though I like grouping in dungeons and a cleric is my second choice I still kind of don't want to play a healer or a tank. I've been playing healers in mmos for years. It can be nerve wracking to me and I start to feel jealousy towards the DPS classes who don't have as much pressure on them.

I don't want to play a ranger, bard or monk for various reasons. The exp penalties, I don't want to pull all the time and bards are just too busy.

Finally, I think I'm okay with the lower damage. I always found that unless the casters are on the ball with never letting their mana get full and never wasting mana by over damaging then the rogue over time out damages them because they have easily sustainable damage like a dot.

Also, am I being even crazier for wanting to play a gnome rogue for the tinkering and being tiny? I figured I'd dump 25 pts into strength to help the damage a bit pre-50. My alternative is human for the looks and even they aren't exactly optimal. My goal is have a nice experience getting to 50 and not necessarily being optimal at 50.

[Legidias]

Be aware tinkering really only takes off after velious.

Rogue seems like what you want. I don't see anything crazy, sure there'll be a rush of mages in vanilla but you're fine as a rogue since you want grouping.

[Verityn]

Thanks for the reasurance. I also did not know that about tinkering and velious is a long ways away.

[Videri]

I've never played on a fresh classic server, but...I don't think it's crazy to pick rogue. We're going to need melee damage! Someone's got to do it! And if few players pick rogue, guess who gets the rogue weapons?

If you love playing the character, I think you will find its difficulties surmountable.

Furthermore, the server will be without Goblin Earrings and even AoNs may be a long time off. We are going to need you to make us Spyglasses by the dozen. I think you could make some plat with those and Stalking Probes. Perhaps Tinkering truly "takes off" after Velious, but the rather short list of classic recipes includes those key items.

[Verityn]

I've never played on a fresh classic server, but...I don't think it's crazy to pick rogue. We're going to need melee damage! Someone's got to do it! And if few players pick rogue, guess who gets the rogue weapons?

If you love playing the character, I think you will find its difficulties surmountable.

Furthermore, the server will be without Goblin Earrings and even AoNs may be a long time off. We are going to need you to make us Spyglasses by the dozen. I think you could make some plat with those and Stalking Probes. Perhaps Tinkering truly "takes off" after Velious, but the rather short list of classic recipes includes those key items.

Here I was about to write off the Gnome until I saw your comment. Their low strength makes me a little wary even compared to a human, but now in my mind they are a bit more equal. The ability to cast enduring breath on myself alone sounds pretty nice. Now I just have to make sure I'm okay with staring at a cute little gnome for hours and hours.

I'm definitively sold on a rogue though. I keep thinking of all the times I struggled to get my corpse back or the stress of trying to get to a camp deep in a dungeon. The simplicity of not having any spells is going to be nice too. It will allow me to focus more on my surroundings and manage my group since I'll probably be the one starting my groups.

[Snaggles]

On live during classic era rogue dps was not bad. I wouldn't be opposed to going that route if you like grouping. At least you aren't sucking up a horrible xp modifier. Could even have an xp bonus as a halfling.

[AegnorP99]

Rogues should be fine. Every group needs dps and rogues certainly fit the bill, even with the cruddy classic weapon options. Groups should be more than easy to find one a fresh server. I say go for it!

[Aaramis]

The allure of a +xp class vs so many of the -xp ones on Green alone is appealing. You'll be levelling 1.5 x faster than the hybrids, for example.
Add in the availability of groups being plentiful, relatively easy access to a decent piercer (Dragoon Dirk obtainable in teens), ability to join any group in progress by sneaking to the camp, and the tease of an easy epic quest in Kunark as well as insane dps....

I'd say no, you're not crazy.
Or perhaps we all are for playing this game still. Who knows.

[Jimjam]

Dwarf rogue has some nice weapon quest options.

7 dmg piercer with magic, oh yea!

also, local quest line that can lead to a blackened iron crown, grotesque mask or girdle. oh yes.

[Verityn]

Dwarf rogue has some nice weapon quest options.

7 dmg piercer with magic, oh yea!

also, local quest line that can lead to a blackened iron crown, grotesque mask or girdle. oh yes.

Oh man there are so many choices when one doesn't care too much about min/maxing. I played a half elf druid before kunark came out on live so I know what it is to accept your weaknesses. In the druid's case it was the equivalent of a whole bubble of mana less than a wood elf druid, but I really wanted to start in Qeynos.

I mean the dwarf does have that cool barrel roll and high strength. That dagger is nice too unless I somehow got lucky with a dragoon dirk drop.

I am second guessing the gnome a little. I made one on blue and the super low perspective is kind of hard to get used to even compared to a dwarf. So is the fact that you cant touch a wall without looking right through it. Which I know is awesome in the right places, but it makes things kind of confusing when you're running through small corridors and rooms especially with sow. I only ran around akanon and maybe being naked affects it more. I just don't want it to be annoying in like lguk or solb.

[Vexenu]

I've done a Gnome Rogue before. They're definitely small (obviously) but it's not terribly annoying or anything, especially since you'll mostly be using third person camera. But there's no reason to play a Gnome unless you really want to play a Gnome. Also, since this is going to be on Green, it's worth considering the possibility that the staff might decide that the mouse scroll third-person camera view is unclassic (which it is) and remove it. That would force you to play in first-person a lot more often which is much more annoying on a Gnome. If you're torn between Gnome and Human I'd personally go Human. Better stats, just as rare and no size issues. And yes, the Rogue will be a weaker class starting out on Green, but who cares? That will just help ensure your snowflake status if you're one of the few who dares to tough it out.

[Aaramis]

Dwarf rogue has some nice weapon quest options.

7 dmg piercer with magic, oh yea!

also, local quest line that can lead to a blackened iron crown, grotesque mask or girdle. oh yes.

Wow, never even knew about that. You could start collecting BI chain as of level 4. That's insane.
Classic, I wonder?

[Benanov]

Wow, never even knew about that. You could start collecting BI chain as of level 4. That's insane.
Classic, I wonder?

I played a DWF ROG pre-Kunark. Don't remember those...

I definitely had the Miner's Pick 628 tho, and the Scarab Helm.

[Graahle]

Also considering rogue strongly for green. Haven’t played P99 in ages, but rogue is calling to me. Perusing the old safehouse.org forums doesn’t help either lol.

[Tethler]

The CR point is pretty relevant tbh. A party wiping deep in Guk isn't a trivial thing in classic. Noone will have a 60 parked nearby to rez, drag or murder everything.

Having a rogue will be nice in those cases.

[Jimjam]

Wow, never even knew about that. You could start collecting BI chain as of level 4. That's insane.
Classic, I wonder?

Its classic!

Ride boat on a slot machine lottery to recieve anything from patchwork to blackened iron!

[Verityn]

The CR point is pretty relevant tbh. A party wiping deep in Guk isn't a trivial thing in classic. Noone will have a 60 parked nearby to rez, drag or murder everything.

Having a rogue will be nice in those cases.

yeah I better start relearning these zones. I used to get so lost in guk, but that was before maps.

[Barantor]

I'm rethinking to rogue just because it's a type of class I never mained and I have a really good knack for remembering maps and directions so those corpse dragging situations might be a good thing for me to do.

Slot Machine Lottery sounds hilarious too.

[Aaramis]

Torn between maining a Rogue or leveling another class (Mage or Necro probably) first to help twink it.

Just concerned I'll miss the Jboots window for the Rogue leveling up a caster first. But man, ungeared melee are so weak in Classic. It'll be a horrible grind.

[Cecily]

The rogue Guk experience alone makes the class worth playing. Also, rogues do crazy damage with really anything they use. It's not a gear dependent class at all. Sure, a 15 damage poker is nice, but a 100+ damage kick button with fine steel is cool, too.

[Aaramis]

The rogue Guk experience alone makes the class worth playing. Also, rogues do crazy damage with really anything they use. It's not a gear dependent class at all. Sure, a 15 damage poker is nice, but a 100+ damage kick button with fine steel is cool, too.

Damn you Cecily, lol. You were supposed to talk me out of it ;)

[Cecily]

I apologize. I love the class.


There are some down sides. Very slow sneak speed till 50+. Will have to walk everywhere. Can't solo.


I recommend an antisocial class to alt when your rogue can't find a group. Rogue with druid was what I did with Cecily and I ended up with two level 60s without much extra effort.

[Baler]

my 2 cents on the subject...
Wait till kunark to roll a rogue. Start classic with a plat farming class to fund the kunark rogue.

[Snaggles]

I apologize. I love the class.


There are some down sides. Very slow sneak speed till 50+. Will have to walk everywhere. Can't solo.


I recommend an antisocial class to alt when your rogue can't find a group. Rogue with druid was what I did with Cecily and I ended up with two level 60s without much extra effort.

^this.

Also pack some cloudy potions or invis rings. I recall any invisi on a rogue is invisible and invis undead. Makes for some full speed stealth at level 1. Not sure tho if that was changed in a certain expansion...con as you go :p

[Cecily]

Invis on a rogue is that type of invis on a rogue. Sneak+hide is Ivall, except some see rogue stuff. IvU on a hidden rogue will let you sneak past things in hate you aren't supposed to be able to.

[Aaramis]

How reliable is Instill Doubt / Intimidation, by the way?

Was just reading an old Safehouse post on Rogue Solo (https://thesafehouse.org/forums/forum/everquest-wing/library-read-only/2967-book-of-knowledge-guide-to-soloing) from 2000, and while soloing on a Rogue was even horrible back then, the article seems to imply that snare (via SBD) and Instill Doubt were a viable option.

Just curious what the rates of it working on Blue have been, so we can judge Green's viability.

[Robersonroger38]

If you play it kool and know your surroundings will be definitely fun! . They can solo it’s just slow. if you love the class, you can deal with it . I plan to go that route, I will note down a path along the way . For others who intend to follow this dangerous shadowy path!

Will definitely be dorf for the quested armory and weapons early in !
I mean how do you pass up barrel Roll? Lol

[Snaggles]

How reliable is Instill Doubt / Intimidation, by the way?

Was just reading an old Safehouse post on Rogue Solo (https://thesafehouse.org/forums/forum/everquest-wing/library-read-only/2967-book-of-knowledge-guide-to-soloing) from 2000, and while soloing on a Rogue was even horrible back then, the article seems to imply that snare (via SBD) and Instill Doubt were a viable option.

Just curious what the rates of it working on Blue have been, so we can judge Green's viability.

On live it never worked for me. Not reliably at least. Monks seemed to have better success. Combine that with a 8/27 piercer and a proc and you are really relying on the RNG gods.

At the current state of the game battle bind-wounding with a fungi and .5+ ratio weapons rogues still are pretty bad soloers. I’d prob just rely on grouping on green.

[Tecmos Deception]

The allure of a +xp class vs so many of the -xp ones on Green alone is appealing. You'll be levelling 1.5 x faster than the hybrids, for example.

I wouldn't get too excited about experience bonuses if you plan on being in groups, which of course rogues will be. The exp bonus still helps, but not nearly as much as it sounds like it would.

http://wiki.project1999.com/Game_Mechanics#How_Experience_Works

[Aaramis]

Well, I'm going to be honest, just tried a Dwarf Rogue on Green beta server.
Great stats. Great initial quest options. Managed a blackened iron mail by level 6 via quests. And killed lots of goblins for beers.

Not such a bad deal, really!

[Verityn]

Well, I'm going to be honest, just tried a Dwarf Rogue on Green beta server.
Great stats. Great initial quest options. Managed a blackened iron mail by level 6 via quests. And killed lots of goblins for beers.

Not such a bad deal, really!

I got to 13 on a human rogue and it went pretty well even though we don't have evade yet. The ability to do corpse recovery in stealth even at that level is really really handy in a dungeon like Blackburrow. The backstabbing for 30dmg was pretty nice too.

[Graahle]

Yeah I’m super torn between Dwarf and Human. Tryna RP a sewer rat by going Human/Bertox.

That or Human Ranger lel

[Verityn]

Yeah I’m super torn between Dwarf and Human. Tryna RP a sewer rat by going Human/Bertox.

That or Human Ranger lel

It took me forever to decide on a race. Ultimately I like Qeynos, I like being able to go to Neriak to some degree and humans have middle ground stats (100str with 25 starting pts). Dwarfs have a lot going for them though.

[username17]

Lets be crazy together.

I started on blue in 2010. I rolled Barb rogue and leveled up without twinking. Ran from Halas to Freeport and got a bind at level 1.
I used a Gloom poon until I got Eyerazzia from Fear. It's entirely possible but it was slow going. I think I was in my 30s when Kunark dropped.

I'm going Gnome Rogue as well for green. The 25STA/5STR is going to be rough for a while (65STR). But once in Kunark gear I'll easily hit 255 STR with Shaman buffs.
Main reasons for going gnome are: wall hacks, small race (no shrink needed), tinkering, velious fashionquest helm, and it's the hardest illusion mask to get.
Those might not be the best reasons but that's what made me choose over any of the other races.

[Graahle]

Lets be crazy together.

I started on blue in 2010. I rolled Barb rogue and leveled up without twinking. Ran from Halas to Freeport and got a bind at level 1.
I used a Gloom poon until I got Eyerazzia from Fear. It's entirely possible but it was slow going. I think I was in my 30s when Kunark dropped.

I'm going Gnome Rogue as well for green. The 25STA/5STR is going to be rough for a while (65STR). But once in Kunark gear I'll easily hit 255 STR with Shaman buffs.
Main reasons for going gnome are: wall hacks, small race (no shrink needed), tinkering, velious fashionquest helm, and it's the hardest illusion mask to get.
Those might not be the best reasons but that's what made me choose over any of the other races.

Gnome due to difficulty of mask is a good enough reason alone; good luck! I’m leaning Human for fashionquest, respectable starting stats and the fact there is NO human mask to obtain.

[Seungkyu]

I think your nuts for going 25STA/5STR on a gnome.

This thread is toxic, I've decided to roll a rogue as well. Going to be a barbarian like I did on beta.

[Aaramis]

Up to level 10 on green beta. Damage output just tripled. I can almost solo blues now.

Alcohol tolerance 5, and rising.

- the drunken dwarf rogue.

[username17]

I think your nuts for going 25STA/5STR on a gnome.

This thread is toxic, I've decided to roll a rogue as well. Going to be a barbarian like I did on beta.

It'll only suck till Kunark. lol

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

I was thinking of a rogue for green too but man after playing the beta. Those mobs are tough. Can a rogue reliably manage alone?

[Aaramis]

I was thinking of a rogue for green too but man after playing the beta. Those mobs are tough. Can a rogue reliably manage alone?

The correct answer is "no".
Back in classic, melee weren't soloing past 10 with typical starting gear.
If you were decently geared, you could maybe make it to 20+. That's it. And that's *NORMAL*. This is, ultimately, a grouping game.

Fungi Rogues with epics at level 1 soloing 1-50+ is not normal, but unfortunately with mudflation that's what Blue is like.
Green will be a very different beast.

You'll be wearing patchwork/tattered for the most part and wielding tarnished weapons until your early teens, and then fighting over raw leather and bronze weapons. Ringmail/banded and magical weapons if you're lucky.

It's really not until LGuk that you get properly twinked out.

[soronil]

I got to 13 on a human rogue and it went pretty well even though we don't have evade yet. The ability to do corpse recovery in stealth even at that level is really really handy in a dungeon like Blackburrow. The backstabbing for 30dmg was pretty nice too.

I think your nuts for going 25STA/5STR on a gnome.

This thread is toxic, I've decided to roll a rogue as well. Going to be a barbarian like I did on beta.


You guys be sure to try human/barb on beta with the night blindness. It's a huge deal. After guise nurf, getting a mask will be easy but for first 7 months there's no easy way for rogue to get infral/ultra vision. Half elf would be the easy route if you wanna do qeynos

[fastboy21]

Is evade confirmed in for launch?

[Aaramis]

Is evade confirmed in for launch?

AFAIK not in for a while. Can still make a macro for it, though. Great way to keep sneak and hide maxed while leveling. Pick pocket too, just be careful;)

[Robersonroger38]

It will definitely be a struggle! Just how I like it
>=}

[FatherSioux]

What are these OP Dwarf quests you guys speak of?

[Aaramis]

What are these OP Dwarf quests you guys speak of?

Bonechips = easy 1-5

Orc belts = easy 5-10

Scarab quests from 1-10 to provide boots, helm, bp.

Killing Cleaner VII -> knight cards -> turn in for possible blackened iron, bronze, etc. Doable at level 6.

Dwarf Rogue-only 7dmg magic piercer obtainable at 15ish with group, or 20 as a duo.