Monk Triple Attack

[mefdinkins]

how does this impact damage? the order of the best weapons etc?

[Lightloch]

I also wonder if it's a passive ability or a trained one? Doesn't show up on any skill lists anyway.

[Troxx]

It’s passive and it paired with improved dmg tables and better 2h dmg bonus makes TStaff a monster.

My parses today have it obliterating epic mainhand and SoM offhand.

[Cecily]

Did monks become a dps class this with patch?

[mefdinkins]

trying to figure out if my alt's facesmasher is butt or not?

[Maliant]

Facesmasher or baton of flame and primal?

[Triode]

Read the patch notes again - aside from triple attack and min damage on flying kick, monk damage tables were nerfed. Per Rogean: "All of these classes except the Rogue received a slight damage table decrease relative to their previous-p99 values. Shadowknights, Paladins, and Bards will see a damage increase appropriate for Post Oct2001 changes."

At 58, I felt weaker today than prepatch. Kinda bummed. I guess life will be better at 60, but it just got a little harder to grind out the final lap or two. The vanished hotbar, change to fall damage etc. also suck (anyone test out whether hole drop in is fatal now?), but I'm a quality of life > trying to stick as close to classic as possible kind of guy, particularly on a server that has run its own course over such a long time period.

[feniin]

Hole Fall was never survivable on live in-era without DA.

[Triode]

Hole Fall was never survivable on live in-era without DA.

Thanks for confirming. I had hoped maybe near max safe fall would be enough to weather it with the fps change but assumed not.

[Jimjam]

Hole Fall was never survivable on live in-era without DA.

Not true, you just /quit close to the ground then when you next log in you'd be back where you left off but with zero velocity and as such the short fall would be quite survivable.

I wouldn't be suprised if /load could also circumvent it.

[Tethler]

Not true, you just /quit close to the ground then when you next log in you'd be back where you left off but with zero velocity and as such the short fall would be quite survivable.

I wouldn't be suprised if /load could also circumvent it.

Are you sure that worked? Your character doesn't poof the second you /q and you can take damage and die to mobs in that time. I would think fall damage would stick too, but then again, I never tried.

[Jimjam]

Damage from fall and (elements of) character location is client side. As soon as you /quit there is nothing making fall damage decisions.

[Kinaki]

More like you would turn into an NPC when linkdead. People could attack you, etc. And you would take no fall damage. Linkdead behavior is different on p99.

[daxchunjae1912]

I saw a female monk yesterday in sebilis with a t-staff solo'ing those bugs and mowing them down the triple attack it was a sight to see

[Wallicker]

Blam Stick is even better now is all I’m reading

[Bbeta]

this thread is painful to read.
*monk triple attack is innate at 60 and only applies to 2H Blunt

"Rogean: [Kunark/Sep2000/Oct2001] Applied Era Rules to Weapon Damage Bonus Calculations. "
*Making monks 2H Blunt less garbage

Rogean: [Oct2001] Modified damage tables both Pre and Post this Era for all level ranges to account for changes made in that patch. Previously, On P99, Warriors, Rangers, Monks, and Rogues were on the same damage tables from 51 to 60, which should not be the case. We have separated Rogues, Monks, and then the rest to their own damage tables for Pre and Post Oct2001. Sounds like monks werent increased or decreased All of these classes except the Rogue received a slight damage table decrease relative to their previous-p99 values. Sounds like monks got a little nerf, contradicting what he previously stated ]Shadowknights, Paladins, and Bards will see a damage increase appropriate for Post Oct2001 changes. SK Pally Bard slight increase. Safe to assume Rangers and Warriors were nerfed

*Worded in a way that i believe we will never know the what actually happened. to monk DPS.

TL;DR Monk triple attack is innate at 60, Monk 2h blunt dmg was increased while monk dps overall was decreased. Neutralizing each other IMO

[mefdinkins]

this thread is painful to read.
*monk triple attack is innate at 60 and only applies to 2H Blunt

"Rogean: [Kunark/Sep2000/Oct2001] Applied Era Rules to Weapon Damage Bonus Calculations. "
*Making monks 2H Blunt less garbage

Rogean: [Oct2001] Modified damage tables both Pre and Post this Era for all level ranges to account for changes made in that patch. Previously, On P99, Warriors, Rangers, Monks, and Rogues were on the same damage tables from 51 to 60, which should not be the case. We have separated Rogues, Monks, and then the rest to their own damage tables for Pre and Post Oct2001. Sounds like monks werent increased or decreased All of these classes except the Rogue received a slight damage table decrease relative to their previous-p99 values. Sounds like monks got a little nerf, contradicting what he previously stated ]Shadowknights, Paladins, and Bards will see a damage increase appropriate for Post Oct2001 changes. SK Pally Bard slight increase. Safe to assume Rangers and Warriors were nerfed

*Worded in a way that i believe we will never know the what actually happened. to monk DPS.

TL;DR Monk triple attack is innate at 60, Monk 2h blunt dmg was increased while monk dps overall was decreased. Neutralizing each other IMO

lol, I have 100's of fights parsed and could talk to you about my rogue and it's DPS.

i'm wondering has anyone parsed TOV level weapons 1 hander vs. 2 hander on monk since the most recent patch.

I think we will know, just want to know if anyone knows already.

[Bbeta]

lol, I have 100's of fights parsed and could talk to you about my rogue and it's DPS.

i'm wondering has anyone parsed TOV level weapons 1 hander vs. 2 hander on monk since the most recent patch.

I think we will know, just want to know if anyone knows already.

I have been parsing in Ntov and 1 handers are still king. now i dont have an abashi's but im using a 40 35 and 1 handers are still parsing much better. Rule of thumb, mobs with high ac and high HP, using 1 handers and hitting fast is better, mobs with low ac and low hp u can blow up with 2 hander. So maybe 2hb is better then they were a week ago for classic content but end game 2 handers are still trash

[Troxx]

Rule of thumb, mobs with high ac and high HP, using 1 handers and hitting fast is better, mobs with low ac and low hp u can blow up with 2 hander.

That rule of thumb is now totally and completely obsolete.

A 35 delay 2hander now applies a damage bonus of 31 every 3.5 seconds (8.86 dmg per second in damage bonus)

If you had a 17 delay 1hander you're applying 11 dmg bonus per 1.7 seconds (6.47 dmg per second in damage bonus)

Haste in this instance is irrelevant as it works for both near equally whether at 0% haste or 100% haste. 2handers now actually put out more total damage bonus than the very fastest 1hander's out there. You would need a mainhand base delay of 12 to beat out a 35 delay 2hander. A mainhand base delay of 13 still loses to 35 delay for the strict purposes of damage bonus application.

Point is? On high ac mobs 2handers will generate more damage bonus than any 1handers in existence. This completely up-ends the oldschool approach of fast primary on high ac mobs like AoW and the like. A rocking endgame BiS duel wield setup will still be rockin dps, but more readily attainable raid 2handers (excluding Abashi which is better) will now be extremely competitive if not possibly better than gharns/other.

My Tstaff at 29/30 is now completely destroying my epic/SoM combo on both trash xp mobs and high ac raid mobs. It used to be that epic/SoM was roughly equivalent to slightly better on trash xp mobs and significantly better on high ac mobs. TStaff applies 29 dmg every 3 seconds (9.66 dmg per second). Epic fist applies 11dmg per 1.6 seconds (6.875 dmg per second). Other and much more cheap IFS applies 34 dmg per 4 seconds (8.5dmg per second).

The tables have turned. It’s doubtful I’ll ever use epic fist for dps moving forward unless I need to push. Mainhand 1hander dmg bonus is flatly inferior to 2hander. Weapon ratio is ultimately of supreme importance but given comparable balanced ratios 2handers have that edge.

All of this ignores the fact that triple attack shifts the scales even further in favor of 2handers for reasons that should be obvious to us all.

[Troxx]

Interestingly both shovel of harvest at 50/43 and Trorsmang at 40/35 are only about 9% better than TStaff 29/30 because 30 is right about the sweet spot for returns on damage bonus. Trorsmang and Shovel should parse virtually identically thanks to the better delay dmg bonus on Trorsmang. Vs TStaff that 9% is before you factor in the unreasonable 120 DD proc. Functionally TStaff proc is 4dps over time at max dex. TStaff thus floats only 3-5% lower than every raid 2hander except abashi. On really high ac mobs TStaff may perform even closer for the same reason fast one handers used to be better.

Abashi is also at that sweet spot for delay and is 25% better before you factor in the proc from TStaff.

I’m dying to see a real life parse comparison of 15/18 and 16/19 vs 40/30

[Troxx]

Fwiw my usual low aggro setup on my warrior raiding is 9/18 and 12/21. For high ac content it was reliably better than my garbage 30/35 2hander. Yesterday on some high ac velious raid targets the 2hander was out-performing the dual wield setup by a noticeable amount.

My warrior needs better ratio low threat weapons :(

[Thunderjunky]

Interestingly both shovel of harvest at 50/43 and Trorsmang at 40/35 are only about 9% better than TStaff 29/30 because 30 is right about the sweet spot for returns on damage bonus. Trorsmang and Shovel should parse virtually identically thanks to the better delay dmg bonus on Trorsmang. Vs TStaff that 9% is before you factor in the unreasonable 120 DD proc. Functionally TStaff proc is 4dps over time at max dex. TStaff thus floats only 3-5% lower than every raid 2hander except abashi. On really high ac mobs TStaff may perform even closer for the same reason fast one handers used to be better.

Abashi is also at that sweet spot for delay and is 25% better before you factor in the proc from TStaff.

I’m dying to see a real life parse comparison of 15/18 and 16/19 vs 40/30

At the risk of showing my lack of 2001 EQ knowledge, wasn't the Bo Staff of Trorsmang supposed to be changed with this last patch?

[Pint]

Parses please

[kjs86z]

devil's advocate: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=333453

[Triode]

I have been parsing in Ntov and 1 handers are still king. now i dont have an abashi's but im using a 40 35 and 1 handers are still parsing much better. Rule of thumb, mobs with high ac and high HP, using 1 handers and hitting fast is better, mobs with low ac and low hp u can blow up with 2 hander. So maybe 2hb is better then they were a week ago for classic content but end game 2 handers are still trash

How do the 1 hander parses compare to pre-patch? As you and I both noted earlier in the thread, the patch notes seem to indicate that the change to monk damage tables was a nerf, and my monk (using 1h) feels a little weaker at level 58 now. Although I can't recall exactly what my prior max hits with epic fist were, max hits with blam stick on KC trash are a little lower. At 60, how is your damage with 1handers compared to a week ago?

Edit to add a follow up question: is this change to the damage tables really classic, or was it an executive decision to try and keep monks (read: Kelz) from being too OP. My hazy recollection is that monks did stupid dps at the end of Vel/start of Luclin, and I played a pretty well geared rogue back then. Maybe I'm just off though. Given the rigid adherence to "Classic" on the interface front, to considerable community dismay, I would hope that the damage changes were similarly accurate.

[kjs86z]

Troxx, were you weapon swapping between swings for fist dmg?

I imagine dual wield is still better for us lazy monks that don't want to do that every round of combat.

[Twochain]

I did some light testing yesterday + day before

My weapons:

Abashi's - 2hb

Fist of Nature / Fist of Lightning - 1hb's


First of all, 2h damage is SO much better now. As to be expected. I used to hit for 29 damage with my Abashi alllll the time. The lowest i've seen it post patch is maybe in the 50s? On green mobs in the overthere, i avg'd between 80 dps - 200 dps. Avg was probably 130-140. Testing it out on blues in sebilis (NG bugs+Friends), it does seem to be a lot more powerful than FoN/FoL while soloing(Which was not the case pre patch). DPS seem to avg 110-130. Which is riight around where i avg'd with FoN/FoL pre-patch. Abashi pre patch could avg as low as 70dps, as hitting for 29 dmg/misses really can drag you down if the RNG gods were unkind. I absolutely hit for 200+ damage A LOT more.

Testing it out on ToV trash/Lord Vyemm... seems like 2hb is still straight garbage. Low hits. A lot of misses.


With FoN/FoL, i felt like i could immediately tell that I was hitting for lower damage each swing. On green trash in the OT, i was hitting for the 40's 50's a lot, where as i felt like I hit for 70s-80s consistently pre patch. The DPS meter also reflected that, as I wasn't doing insane DPS against these trash mobs unless my FoN was proccing. Interestingly, I seemed to be doing pretty damn good DPS against Lord Vyemm last night, as I was top 5 in DPS on my meter at 85 before I was eaten. (with FoN/FoL ... NOT Abashi)


In Conclusion, I think it's safe to assume that 2hb will be king for everything outside of raids.


Note: I was mostly unbuffed during these tests, and weren't really tests, moreso me dicking around with weapons. Also to note, unbuffed, my str is 232, and I have 2 AoB effects (Doze mask + dain belt) + Ring 10.

[Trzzle]

Theres an easy place to parse for non-raid content. Bloodmaw in GD has ~50,000 hp and basically doesn't attack back. Using him with same buffs (epic haste + Avatar):

DW Wurmscale Fistwrap + Primal Fistwrap: 130dps
DW Epic Fist + Scepter of Mastery: 108dps
2H Trorsmang: 138dps
2H TStaff: 114dps (118dps including proc dmg @255dex)

Prior to this update TStaff only did ~80dps and Trorsmang ~100dps on Bloodmaw.

[kjs86z]

Theres an easy place to parse for non-raid content. Bloodmaw in GD has ~50,000 hp and basically doesn't attack back. Using him with same buffs (epic haste + Avatar):

DW Wurmscale Fistwrap + Primal Fistwrap: 130dps
DW Epic Fist + Scepter of Mastery: 108dps
2H Trorsmang: 138dps
2H TStaff: 114dps (118dps including proc dmg @255dex)

Prior to this update TStaff only did ~80dps and Trorsmang ~100dps on Bloodmaw.

Did you swap out your 2 handers for fist swings in between 2H swing timer?

[Trzzle]

Did you swap out your 2 handers for fist swings in between 2H swing timer?

No. That's just the pure auto attack damage of each, no kicks etc.

[White_knight]

Did you swap out your 2 handers for fist swings in between 2H swing timer?

Now that is min-maxin'.

[Troxx]

Theres an easy place to parse for non-raid content. Bloodmaw in GD has ~50,000 hp and basically doesn't attack back. Using him with same buffs (epic haste + Avatar):

DW Wurmscale Fistwrap + Primal Fistwrap: 130dps
DW Epic Fist + Scepter of Mastery: 108dps
2H Trorsmang: 138dps
2H TStaff: 114dps (118dps including proc dmg @255dex)

Prior to this update TStaff only did ~80dps and Trorsmang ~100dps on Bloodmaw.

Regarding TStaff vs epic and SoM, these findings are consistent with both my experiences and the math theorycraft I’ve already posted in this thread. It’s cool to see Trorsmang is better compared to TStaff than my math suggested (in this case 16.9%). The influence of avatar proc and the effect of str makes absolutely delay and damage bonus less important than flat weapon ratio.

[Troxx]

This question is more about triple attack.

I was talking to a contact in game who mentioned that the general understanding of triple attack is wrong. They basically stated it was a second but separate opportunity to double attack additively. He implied that beyond the chance of a third attack it also increased a double attack percentage for primary hand. I’m not sure I was following his logic.

Do we know for certain precisely what the triple attack chance is, or rather following the patch how many more mainhand swing opportunities it actually gives?

I’ve been simply using a 5% increase in mainhand swings with my calculations. If the percentage is absolutely known I can use that to streamline calculations for a dps calculator vs lower ac content.

For example in the above parses raw melee on TStaff (not counting proc) is 5.3% better than epic/SoM.

If you use a x2 (example below): it predicts TStaff is 11% better
Example for epic ((9x2)+11)/16

If you use a x3 it drops to 9.3%

For this mob in particular 255 strength and high attack from avatar compared to this low ac mob would mean you would need a multiplier closer to x5.

Anywho I can draft a much more precise calculator for high attack and 255 str vs a low ac mob if I know the precise percentages for:

60 monk
Monk mainhand triple attack fire = ?
Monk mainhand double attack = ? (Different from offhand DA now?)
Monk offhand double attack = ?
Monk dual wield = ?

It wouldn’t be perfect as not everyone will will always have avatar and 255 str and certainly all mobs have different ac and this mob is also level 20.

Interestingly higher level mobs with higher ac actually shifts the multiplier for damage DOWN, not up. Lower multipliers shift the power scale TOWARDS 2hander ... not towards duel wield. The calculations hold true for both TStaff vs epic/SoM and a high end comparison of Abashi vs the pipedream 15/18 and 16/19.

This directly contradicts the idea that duel wield maintains an advantage over 2handers vs high level high ac mobs. The higher/tougher the mob, the lower the multiplier you should use as you get fewer high DI hits vs that mob.

This game has mechanics dictated by math equations, not witchcraft. Once you understand the math, the rest is easy. The challenge with parsing high level high ac parses is that raid targets inevitably come with lots of variables. Maintaining absolute consistency is hard and the fights themselves are short enough that the parses are prone to influence of the RNG. The shorter the parse the more flawed it is. The longer the parse the better. Long parses, even against low ac mobs, allow us to understand basic general concepts from which we can extrapolate reasonable predictions.

To be clear though: following this patch and the new dmg bonuses, high ac content where a larger proportion of your hits are lower DI and a greater proportion of your dmg comes from the unresitable damage bonus now favors the 2hander, not the fast dual wield meta we’ve known for so long.

I’ll go out on a limb and predict Abashi beats the shit out of BiS dual wield. Maybe I’m wrong but we’ll have to wait on a supremely geared monk who has these weapons to cough up the parses. Control parses for low ac can come from Bloodmaw. Comparatively to see how the balance shifts you can get a high level arena mob (Kael high ac). You can look at performance differences btw high low ac which then let’s you follow the bread crumbs to a comparison even vs a red con super ac raid mob. For Kael you can control it by having a single high blue shaman slowed, monk beats down to low then flops and lets it regen passively up while beating on the shaman then parse again on the same mob with weapon setup B. I predict the 2hander will proportionally do better the higher the mob is and the higher the ac is (you know ... Math).

Food for thought.

Sorry for the long post but I like to dork out when it comes to eq math and parses.

[Legidias]

They already did post parse

devil's advocate: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=333453

[Troxx]

60 monk with 158 str, 144dex, 34% worn haste, 1099 attack and no other buffs (did not use epic click of the like). I solo'd Bloodmaw exactly to 50% from full with both Tstaff and epic/SoM. I stripped away buffs, epic click, and did not kick to remove those variables altogether.

Tstaff: 376 seconds to hit 50%; 2hb dps 68.7dps with 1.9dps proc (total 70.6dps)

Epic/SoM: 452 seconds to hit 50%; combined 60.5dps (40.7 punch 19.8 blunt)

Trzzle had 255 str, epic attack and avatar attack and Tstaff performed 5.3% better
I had 158 str with zero buffs and Tstaff performed 12% better

How can you extrapolate this vs high ac mobs? Well in my case damage bonus was a much more important part of total damage done. I also had lower proportional attack compared to my target's ac (both of these are dynamics seen vs raid mobs and higher level mobs) and the result was the 2hander thanks to triple attack and a better dmg bonus leaning performed significantly better than the same combo does when you're looking at 255 str and higher attack. Point is, as of right now that common logic of DW vs harder mobs has indeed been flipped on it's head.

Of note I ran these parses a few times and what I can say is that dual wield consistently settled on average quite fast, generally within the first minute. It was predictable. For 2hand it was all over the place but always settled right around 68.7dps over time. Some fights I would spend the first minute above or closer to 100 before it then settled down to average. Other times I would spend the first 2 minutes hovering lower than average before creeping up.

This is important to note because we as humans are rife with observational bias and selective memory loss. We tend to have those bad run of luck which we focus on and then ignore the good runs of luck. We may or may not get disappointed with brief stretches of bad luck and ASSUME inferiority when no such inferiority exists. For every bad run there's a counterbalancing great run. Over time and the longer the fight, averages always manage to find their center.

Takeaway:

With high proportional attack vs mob ac was present; 2hand was only 5.3% better. When you strip away that extra attack (much like fighting a higher level and high ac mob), as I predicted the 2hander proportionally did better. In my case I consistently and repeatedly clocked Tstaff at 12% better with lower attack.

2handers are officially neato!

[Troxx]

They already did post parse

If you're referring to this (the high ac raid example):

Testing it out on ToV trash/Lord Vyemm... seems like 2hb is still straight garbage. Low hits. A lot of misses.

That's not a parse. That's a subjective feeling. With regards to subjective feelings, reference the post above this regarding observational bias and the streaky nature of 2handers compared to fast 1 handers.

The only parses or real parse summaries other than vague general ranges were parsed by Trzzle and now my own bloodmaw runs.

[Legidias]

Did you straight up ignore the huge DPS chart from tunare in that quote? lol

[Bbeta]

Did you straight up ignore the huge DPS chart from tunare in that quote? lol

it isnt math so it must be ignored.

Math does not take into consideration RNG. this game is based off RNG. 2hb is trash for end game like i previously stated. High AC 1hb, having fun on blues and greens 2hb ur heart out

[Troxx]

Did you straight up ignore the huge DPS chart from tunare in that quote? lol

I missed that. A couple of observations and questions. Firfistle and Raev have the same weapons right? In a short sub-4 minute parse, Firfistle landed 168 hits in 223sec (more time) with a max hit of 205 and average hit 87. Raev landed 191 hits in 211 seconds (less time) with a max hit of 251 and average of 75. Raev spent 12 seconds less fighting but had a max hit nearly 19% higher and landed 12% more total hits yet hit on average for less. The DW monks had extremely similar average hits and total numbers of hits.

Assuming all monks had the exact same buffs (did they? Exactly the same). That, as Bbeta points out is the RNG at play and a fight too short to let all variables even out (not to mention the uncontrollable variables in a raid environment to include, but not limited to, player buffs, positioning, timing, and whatever else.

I know this sounds nitpicky but this is why long parses are required to tease things out. As I referenced in my above bloodmaws, if I only looked at the first 2-3 minutes of the fight with the 2hander the dps was clocked as high as 84 before eventually settling down to 68.7ish or might have looked as low as mid 50s before creeping up. Dual wield? I was consistently at or close to long duration average by 60 seconds. In a raid environment this means you’ll have the high rolling runs vs the underwhelming runs but overall the average will settle at its center.

We all know 2handers are streaky. We all know this. Prior to patch I could get a 30-40 difference in fight to fight performance vs the same mobs buffs unchanged.

The equations the game uses are very predictable and relative performance function absolutely can be predicted once you have enough points of data.

I’ll drag a shaman to Kael at some point in the future and test this out buffless in a higher ac mob. I’m predicting that higher ac and mob level will favor the 2hand post-patch. We’ll see.

[Synthlol]

this thread is painful to read.
*monk triple attack is innate at 60 and only applies to 2H Blunt

This guy has no idea how triple attack works.

[Zemus]

https://i.imgur.com/0LK5L2j.png
I kicked about 3 times out of habit.

[Bbeta]

This guy has no idea how triple attack works.

Huh? Is it not innate at 60 and only applies to 2hb?

[Bbeta]

Wish I could edit my post. U r correct, it's applies to main hand so 2hb vs 1hb is no difference. Sorry for the miss information

[feniin]

Looks like you're taking less damage with the two hander, too.

[Troxx]

https://i.imgur.com/0LK5L2j.png
I kicked about 3 times out of habit.

Thanks for that data point chillwin!

Did you have 255 dex? If so you can separate out 7dps from procs (5.33 for mainhand) to see white damage vs white dmg vs the two. You didn’t use the tab that filters between melee and non-melee dmg which is fine (ie your max hit duel wield is the damage of your mainhand proc).

Offhand proc has a -100 resist mod so it can be generally assumed it will land most all the time vs most all targets excluding some raid stuff. The other proc, however, has a 0 resist mod meaning more frequent resists on any meaningful targets.

On a level 20 mob (as a level 60 player) with low ac and practically no resists the combo is 0.685% better than Abashi. If procs are completely taken away (they shouldn’t be but mainhand resists will happen) Abashi is 4.14% better on a level 20 mob. If you were to resist just 25% of mainhand procs (this is very generous on raid content) you lose 1.333dps which drops the duel wield below Abashi.

Or is FoN unresistable? I honestly don’t know. If so disregard above paragraph.

Regardless, As we’ve established (the math), the higher the mob level and the higher the ac the more the scales are tipped towards 2hand with the dmg bonus changes. That alone will have Abashi performing higher. Toss in any resists and the dual wield will again comparatively lose a bit of ground. It’s pretty safe to estimate performance vs performance on level appropriate and raid content but parses will be needed to confirm. I’ll be doing my part on higher ac Kael arena trash in the coming week or so to test out the ‘hypothesis’

Granted, FoN/BoF isn’t the same as FoN/Gharns. The latter is expected to be obviously better.

[Zemus]

Yes 255 dex and str. Preproced avatar and kept epic up the whole time. Ring 10 + 2x aob. No other buffs.

FoN is nearly always resisted on raid targets because almost all are immune to changes in run speed. For bloodmaw there were no resists.

[kjs86z]

Good stuff, Chillwin.

[Troxx]

Yes 255 dex and str. Preproced avatar and kept epic up the whole time. Ring 10 + 2x aob. No other buffs.

FoN is nearly always resisted on raid targets because almost all are immune to changes in run speed. For bloodmaw there were no resists.

Thanks brother.

If you want and are interested I have a 60 shaman with torpor. If the opportunity arises I could go to Kael arena with you to test differences on high mobs. Would plan on pulling a single higher con mob (preferably not rampage), slowing it, keeping you unbuffed minus maybe shaman haste. You beat it down to low then flop and let it regen up; rinse and repeat with option to.

The raw dps you do is not as relevant as the comparison between the two. Buffless helps to exclude other variables like epic click or avatar which may not remain up literally 100% of the time.

I predict the 2hander will actually (averaged over time) perform better against a higher level mob with higher ac.

If you’re willing, I can shaman for you.

[Bbeta]

I have t staff and bo staff, and FoN and Sap encrusted Branch if you want to parse with me later I suggest jugs in seb, that's how we parsed wus primary vs wus secondary with epic primary and double wus.

Jugs are good because they are constant level ranges. I think they vary by 1 level and have high ac and decent hp pool

[kjs86z]

I have t staff and bo staff, and FoN and Sap encrusted Branch if you want to parse with me later I suggest jugs in seb, that's how we parsed wus primary vs wus secondary with epic primary and double wus.

Jugs are good because they are constant level ranges. I think they vary by 1 level and have high ac and decent hp pool

I could bring a cleric later for this.

[Zemus]

Thanks brother.

If you want and are interested I have a 60 shaman with torpor. If the opportunity arises I could go to Kael arena with you to test differences on high mobs. Would plan on pulling a single higher con mob (preferably not rampage), slowing it, keeping you unbuffed minus maybe shaman haste. You beat it down to low then flop and let it regen up; rinse and repeat with option to.

The raw dps you do is not as relevant as the comparison between the two. Buffless helps to exclude other variables like epic click or avatar which may not remain up literally 100% of the time.

I predict the 2hander will actually (averaged over time) perform better against a higher level mob with higher ac.

If you’re willing, I can shaman for you.

PM'd I have a couple hours tonight we can do some parses.

[Brocode]

Ok i did some testing on 1hb, sorry i lost some buffs mid test, but heres my overall on Bloodmaw, considering hes green low AC doubt we hit that on raid mobs or high AC:

https://i.imgur.com/l3w3qnG.png

(also note everytime BoF is Main Hand parse read 7 attempts in the same sec due to fast weap and triple atk)

Fist of Nature + Gharns 148.6 DPS
https://i.imgur.com/cKfo9e5.png
Gharns + Fist of Nature 148.4 DPS
https://i.imgur.com/XsEgD6T.png
Baton of Flame + Gharns 139.4 DPS
https://i.imgur.com/Mx66rnE.png
Fist of Nature + Baton of Flame 138.1 DPS
https://i.imgur.com/ZMuJ3DJ.png
Baton of Flame + Fist of Nature 134.3 DPS
https://i.imgur.com/meejFjR.png
Gharns + Baton of Flame 124.7 DPS (Bad Lucky? Lost atk buff mid fight)
https://i.imgur.com/vR5Pvmb.png
Blam + Gharns 122.6 DPS (Im not sure what to say, also had to cut early he ran)
https://i.imgur.com/2Lnkjb4.png

[Bbeta]

PM'd I have a couple hours tonight we can do some parses.

Ditto, we could wombo combo, I suggest jugs in seb

[Bbeta]

I could bring a cleric later for this.

Sweet, PST bbeta, I'm online meow

[Troxx]

PM'd I have a couple hours tonight we can do some parses.

Moving my shaman Jolav to Kael now; will park him at 4way

for High ac parses i really do recommend kael. AC there is HIGH but more importantly mobs have insane regen. This allows you to get parse data on the exact same mob by letting it regen.

[Zemus]

Data from tonight's Drioc session. When taking out proc damage the 2h performed slightly better. Starting to think that the difference between 1h and 2h are not hugely significant anymore.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1G3Ir0gaZetCqzBcHWJu6IXb2AR96Uv0BKLsFGf7m-RE/edit?usp=sharing

Thanks Troxx for the session and helping reduce the variables.

[Troxx]

Absolutely man, it was enlightening.

Our methds:
-we pulled Drioc to 4-way and kept him malo’d and slowed.
-Torpor was only used on Jolav.
-All heals on Chillwin were direct blast heals to ensure the slow component from Torp didn’t taint the numbers
-buffs on chillwin were only focus stam regen dain ring and 50% shaman haste
-no avatar or monk epic click as the possibility keeping of not these up would could taint the numbers
-the goal was slow control with all variables identical except weapons equipped
-chillwin always attacked from the front even when I was getting beat on
-chillwin would attack until 25 then flop and let mob regen up

We managed 4 runs with 15/18 and 13/17 and a few more than that with 2hand.

As posted, Abashi was 2.5% more dps when procs are excluded (160dd root proc won’t work on most all raid targets). With procs and buffs as is on this mob DW was 4.84% better. As Chillwin had 255 dex, full buffs with call of predator, VoG, avatar, Str of Nature, epic click (full on melee buffs), Abashi would have pulled ahead of DW with procs by a marginal amount. The proc dps would not be influences by further buffs, only the shite damage.

As chillwin points out, they’re more or less interchangeable. This has held true for both high ac and low ac.

For anyone interested in Parsing; use Kael. The fast regen on these mobs ensures you can use the same mob over and over again to make sure no variables change except that which you want to investigate.

[Troxx]

Edit: nevermind I was mistaken disregard this post

[Raev]

Remember, more ATK/less AC helps 1H now. It's always nice to get empirical confirmation, but it looks like my calculator was spot on: Abashi's will have the edge while raiding, and the various 1H combos will have the edge for XP. But we can definitely agree that it will be close. Of course the best is to have both, but I don't have that kind of DKP!

[bradsamma]

Great job troxx!!!

Have you done the same parses with epic/SoS vs. TStaff yet? I would love to see the same parses with a warrior too if you had them.

I love the way you tackle these things like a real scientist!

[Zemus]

Great job troxx!!!

Have you done the same parses with epic/SoS vs. TStaff yet? I would love to see the same parses with a warrior too if you had them.

I love the way you tackle these things like a real scientist!

Old post but relevant now:
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2450278&postcount=55

As far as parsing I still have a scepter of mastery and a Tstaff banked, and my warrior has epic and a frostreaver if we cared to do another session.

[Troxx]

Of course the best is to have both, but I don't have that kind of DKP!

And that's the really nice thing. There's no need to feel like you have to destroy your dkp for both. Either/or work nicely at all levels of content.

[Zemus]

More Bloodmaw'in

https://i.imgur.com/9prMfaf.png

[feniin]

We need to get you a Gozz Shovel, Chillwin. Curious what sort of damage you can do with that beast.

[Troxx]

We need to get you a Gozz Shovel, Chillwin. Curious what sort of damage you can do with that beast.

Gozz shovel should be about the same as trorsmang and a bit better than tstaff

[Brocode]

Chillwin you should add atk values instead and i assume 255str by default, for example i have 3x aob and ring 10 but no avatar, but i know if i do avatar dps increases by 5-10 dps.

For those wondering on raids i dont see monks beating rogues yet. We need to parse next AoW/Dain to know real values against AC.

[feniin]

Chillwin you should add atk values instead and i assume 255str by default, for example i have 3x aob and ring 10 but no avatar, but i know if i do avatar dps increases by 5-10 dps.

For those wondering on raids i dont see monks beating rogues yet. We need to parse next AoW/Dain to know real values against AC.
Monks are starting to creep up into the top 10. The better geared monks over lesser geared rogues. Would assume Chillwin's around 1430 ATK fully buffed?

[Croco]

Anyone with a Wu's Fist/SoM care to parse the difference between that combo and Tstaff? Just curious.

[iamnotsalem]

Triple attack doesnr change anything you are all idiots

[Brocode]

Triple attack doesnr change anything you are all idiots

this is not rnf, wrong forum buddy


Monk Attack Bonus:
BUFFs:Dance of Blade(Bard Epic Proc) (30 Atk), Call of Predator(RNG)(40 Atk), Ring 10 Dain(Click)(14 Atk), Visions of Grandeur(ENC)(20 atk), Celestial Fists(Click) (wiki says 40 atk, ingame i get 54 atk), Primal Avatar(Proc/SHM Spell) (100 atk)
ITEMs: Aura of Battle(14 atk)x3 - Dain Belt, Doze Mask, Chardok Arms.

thats a total +300 Atk bonus if you max it. I think i reach 1514 atk or something like that with full bonus

[bradsamma]

Triple attack doesnr change anything you are all idiots

You don't math well, do you?

[jacobar]

The fact no ones parsing a blam stick. shmh.

[Troxx]

The fact no ones parsing a blam stick. shmh.

Why not parse it yourself? Laziness or do you just not have one? In either case, why do you care?

Mathematically it shouldn’t be much better than epic for mainhand.
Maybe a bit better.
Possibly a bit worse.

[bradsamma]

Why not parse it yourself? Laziness or do you just not have one? In either case, why do you care?

Mathematically it shouldn’t be much better than epic for mainhand.
Maybe a bit better.
Possibly a bit worse.

Did the damage bonus change for the blam stick too or just 2hnd?

[mefdinkins]

i wanna testout facesmasher!

[Troxx]

Did the damage bonus change for the blam stick too or just 2hnd?

Is blam stick a 1hander or 2hander?

That’s your answer.

[Croco]

51 monk - 1018atk/126str - 24% worn haste (too lazy to click epic for 10 minutes)


Bloodmaw parse (10 min) - Etched Velium Brawl Stick (32/38) - 38dps

Bloodmaw parse (10 min) - Epic Fists (9/16) - 42dps


I know this doesn't have anything to do with triple attack but I thought it would be interesting to post a parse from a non-60 monk that just got his epic and has a decent 2 hander to see how 2 hander changes have effected non-triple attack damage. Most likely if I had an Peacebringer, IFS, or Tstaff I would be out dpsing fists with 2hb.

[Brocode]

The fact no ones parsing a blam stick. shmh.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2959320&postcount=52

look back last place is blam stick

[kjs86z]

i wanna testout facesmasher!

So I picked up a Facesmasher on my 60 monk for cheap a little over a week ago.

I haven't been able to play much recently, but in the short periods I've been smashing some frogs in Sebilis in small groups it just "feels" bad. I've been using epic + ada club before this supposed upgrade...and between the more consistent damage and stun procs on casters...I'm not so sure I'm doing much better with this ToV weapon.

Has anyone done any recent parsing? Trying to get a feel for where people would rank Facesmasher in the weapon combos tier list.

[Troxx]

TStaff has already been parsed out notably higher than your DW setup or comparable. Facesmasher white dmg should clock in about 7% higher on average than TStaff (5% on high ac mobs and up to 9% higher on low ac mobs).

Facesmasher is a lot better than epic/AC.

The only better 2h weapons are Abashi (best) and Trorsmang vs harvest shovel (these 2 should be nearly identical). Outside of those 3 2handers you won’t find better dps shy of literal BiS dual wield — not exactly attainable for any alt regardless of guild.

[Chardy]

Facesmasher is stupidly good, especially after an Avatar proc. Even better the more +ATK buffs you have stacked. I mean, the same goes for any weapon/weapon set with +ATK, but its nice having consistent double and triple strokes for 300ish pet hit. The Delay also makes the swap out for fist hits pretty manageable.

[Troxx]

For people used to seeing fast dual wield spam (myself included), the slower hit rate of a 2hander can be initially disappointing. It can easily feel underwhelming despite the parser showing significant improvement.

[kjs86z]

Played some last night. Initial bias is now gone.

Its really just all about trying to get punches in between every swing timer.

I'm renaming my weapon to Frogsmasher....credit to whoever was in my group last night that said that.