Charming vs quadding vs root rot for druid.

[pijan]

Curious to hear people's option on the most fun way to level a druid. Which do you prefer? Which do you feel is the fastest?

I was looking at quadding hut doesn't seem real viable until 34. Charming and root rot seem possible at level 14.

[honeybee12874]

Charming is my favorite solo method, if I can find a good place to do it. By far the most fun (in my opinion).

Even so, my most frequently used method is root rotting. It's chill and easy, especially when fighting non-casters.

I don't do quadding. I found it to be too stressful. However, I'm almost positive it's the fastest for solo XP (if you're good at it, which I am not lol) But yeah, you can't do it until you get Lightning Strike at 34. Or a Lumi Staff if you're into that sort of thing.

My fastest XP has always come from groups, though, to be honest. And I find grouping to be more fun compared to any of the solo options just due to the social aspect.

[loramin]

Personally I only root/rotted at the very lowest levels. My Druid was an alt, so my main got him a Goblin Gazughi Ring early on and then he was off to SK to charm elephants and such, followed by Rathe Mountain bears, then LOIO windmill tigers, and then I went to Cazic Thule to charm alligators (http://wiki.project1999.com/Cazic_Thule_Alligator_Pit) for like ten levels (click the Druid filter on the Per-Level guide (http://wiki.project1999.com/Per-Level_Hunting_Guide) and you can mostly see the path I took, along with some extra ideas).

I did nothing but charming until 45 when I picked up a Lumi staff and started doing the giant fort in EW. I also did some quadding in EJ (it started with quadding the apes to try and make the guy for my epic spawn, but I discovered they weren't bad XP) and in WL with 4s/6s. But ultimately I did all the hard levels up to 60 charming in the Permafrost Bear Pit.

I don't think any one technique is better ... scratch that: root/rot is pretty clearly worse than either of the two alternatives, XP-wise. IMHO once you're able to charm/quad, root/rotting is for getting loot or lazy XPing, not serious XPing.

But between charming and quadding I don't think one's inherently superior. Both are very good, and I think exactly which one is better it depends on the details. What's the ZEM of the zone, what level are you/what spells do you have, what are the HP of the mobs in question, etc.

And there's also just a huge inherent difference between the two styles, in that charming is constant or near constant, while quading inherently requires breaks. So even if one is a little better or worse, you still might pick the other just because you do/don't like taking long breaks.

[Madbad]

Pretend to be a halfing cleric and heal in groups

[circlerogue]

Imo you should never really root/rot past level ~40. My progression was:

5-13: Root rotting Crushbone
14-19: Root rotting Sisters
19-24: Root rotting Upper Guk
24-30: Charming Everfrost mammoths
30-38: Root rotting Ancient Croc
38-41: I can't remember...
41-49: Quadding BB Dwarven citizens
50-51: Quadding Bloodgills
52: Quadding Spirocs and Wyverns
53-55: Quadding Raptors
56-60: Charming Bear pits

[Madbad]

I think I did 38-41 messing around in OT charming the animals there

I always found Spirocs to be heavily camped in Kunark era.

[loramin]

I think I did 38-41 messing around in OT charming the animals there

I found the OT animals had insane resists, but it might have just been that there was a wide range of blues and I was picking high ones. I think if you want to do that zone you really have do the exact right area for your level, otherwise you'll burn through all your mana just trying to land/keep a charm.


I always found Spirocs to be heavily camped in Kunark era.

They're still popular, but not so much that I had issues. I think maybe they were already taken one or two times, over the entire time (several levels) that I was there.

[Larkverdin]

Personally I'll always prefer grouping in some dungeon over soloing. As a druid, I know that sounds unusual, but it's why we play an MMO instead of single player. That said, if I am soloing, I'm always quadding. Root/rotting is pretty well reserved for named or specific camps. I don't care for charming really at all. I find it pretty stressful for something to break charm in the middle of a kill or something to that effect.

[loramin]

I find it pretty stressful for something to break charm in the middle of a kill or something to that effect.

The trick is to always snare your pet before you charm it, keep the mob you're fighting snared also (and ideally rooted), and stand a little ways back.

That way even if a charm break does happen you have a couple seconds (because of the snare) to react. You can re-charm the pet, if you have the time to, or you can just root it (with your fastest/lowest level root) and then re-charm it. Either your pet or the other mob will break root soon enough to restart the fight.

Of course, that assumes you're only charm fighting two mobs. When you "swarm charm" (several mobs beating on your pet at once) root is an absolute necessity, or else charm breaks turn very lethal, very fast.

[Dezlen]

Root rotting does indeed suck...if you are rotting 1 at a time. Try 4-8 at a time, the exp is much better. This is only really possible with epic and click arms/bracer, and is much easier at 56 due to better root. The upside is you are killing mobs with very little mana spent, the downside is it takes awhile to kill them. It is much faster than quadding and you can do it in dungeons. The downside is the expensive requirement level this way.

Is it faster than bear pits? Probably not, but it's safer and less boring than being stuck in permafrost.

[loramin]

Root rotting does indeed suck...if you are rotting 1 at a time. Try 4-8 at a time, the exp is much better. This is only really possible with epic and click arms/bracer, and is much easier at 56 due to better root. The upside is you are killing mobs with very little mana spent, the downside is it takes awhile to kill them. It is much faster than quadding and you can do it in dungeons. The downside is the expensive requirement level this way.

Is it faster than bear pits? Probably not, but it's safer and less boring than being stuck in permafrost.

I did WL giants with my Druid at 60 "multi-root/rotting" ... mainly because my main is a Shaman and I sometimes forget my Druid isn't a Shaman :D (Loramin used to do like seven Seafury Cyclops at a time that way.)

I was doing it for faction of course, but the XP was actually noticeable. Not better than charming/quadding (I'd guess), but surprisingly a lot better than I would have expected.

[honeybee12874]

Personally I'll always prefer grouping in some dungeon over soloing. As a druid, I know that sounds unusual, but it's why we play an MMO instead of single player.

Yes! I'm 100% in the same boat. I've had lots of fun in groups, and it seems to be the fastest way (for me) to get XP. Now, maybe I'm just really bad at soloing (I'm willing to accept this may be the case lol) but at the end of the day this is a social game and if I'm having fun that's the most important part :)

That said, if I am soloing, I'm always quadding. Root/rotting is pretty well reserved for named or specific camps. I don't care for charming really at all. I find it pretty stressful for something to break charm in the middle of a kill or something to that effect.

We're opposites when it comes to soloing lol. I find quadding to be stressful (but again, I'm probably just bad at it :D) but if I screw up I've got four mobs who want to kill me! If I screw up on charming I should only have two mobs who are mad at me. But one of them (the non-pet) should be rooted, so this mitigates that somewhat.

Either way though, grouping is where it's at. As long as a group will have me! :o

[honeybee12874]

Root rotting does indeed suck...if you are rotting 1 at a time. Try 4-8 at a time, the exp is much better. This is only really possible with epic and click arms/bracer, and is much easier at 56 due to better root. The upside is you are killing mobs with very little mana spent, the downside is it takes awhile to kill them. It is much faster than quadding and you can do it in dungeons. The downside is the expensive requirement level this way.

Is it faster than bear pits? Probably not, but it's safer and less boring than being stuck in permafrost.

*gasp* I like the way you think! :D What do you mean about the expensive downside? The cost of the gear?

[Dezlen]

*gasp* I like the way you think! :D What do you mean about the expensive downside? The cost of the gear?

To do this efficiently, you need your epic for the mana free dot/snare, as well as either a velious leather bracer (from Thurg, Kael, or Skyshrine), or an elder spiritualist vambrace, for the other free dot. Epic is not cheap or easy for everyone, and only the vambrace is cheap. It *really* helps to have a velious or elder spiritualist breastplate for the regen also, but again these are not cheap.

The goal is to root rot down 4-8 (or more if you can handle the stress) blue mobs using as little mana as possible (hopefully only root and snare during initial pull). After the last one dies, you are ready for the next pull. The free regen keeps you alive during the pulls/root breaks.

[honeybee12874]

To do this efficiently, you need your epic for the mana free dot/snare, as well as either a velious leather bracer (from Thurg, Kael, or Skyshrine), or an elder spiritualist vambrace, for the other free dot. Epic is not cheap or easy for everyone, and only the vambrace is cheap. It *really* helps to have a velious or elder spiritualist breastplate for the regen also, but again these are not cheap.

The goal is to root rot down 4-8 (or more if you can handle the stress) blue mobs using as little mana as possible (hopefully only root and snare during initial pull). After the last one dies, you are ready for the next pull. The free regen keeps you alive during the pulls/root breaks.

Awesome, I do have my Epic as well as the SS breastplate & SS bracer. I'm going to give this a try, just need to figure out a good spot to do it. :)

[Zuranthium]

Imo you should never really root/rot past level ~40. My progression was:

5-13: Root rotting Crushbone
14-19: Root rotting Sisters
19-24: Root rotting Upper Guk
24-30: Charming Everfrost mammoths
30-38: Root rotting Ancient Croc
38-41: I can't remember...
41-49: Quadding BB Dwarven citizens
50-51: Quadding Bloodgills
52: Quadding Spirocs and Wyverns
53-55: Quadding Raptors
56-60: Charming Bear pits

I think it's best to fight melee until the mid/high 20's. Damage shield is strong (can also utilize treeform outdoors for more health regen). Start charming once mobs start hitting too hard and stick with that for pure leveling purposes, unless quadding works with your schedule better (being able to take breaks). I would only root rot for trying to solo a cash/item camp where charm isn't an option.

[Wallicker]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Bloodmaw

At low lvls you can charm this guy, throw a damage shield on him and take a short trip to the tizmak caves.

[Wallicker]

Actually once tizmaks go green, you can charm the coldain warwolf and shred giants or the Kodiaks lol.

[Rimson]

Anyone have suggestion for 35 Druid either quad or charm? I've been doing IC cougars but they don't seem like great exp and practically no money gained from killing them.

[loramin]

I think I did 35 at http://wiki.project1999.com/Cazic_Thule_Alligator_Alley, and I think I stuck with it until 39 or so when I did the area near IC bridge in Eastern Wastes.

You could always check the Per-Level guide (link in signature) for more ideas.

[plzrelax]

Stonebrunt

[kjs86z]

What is the earliest level a druid could go to Chardok and charm in a group setting?

I think my druid is 52 or 53. No interest in binding in bear pits and I loathe quadding. Tough to find a group in KC, most people stick their noses up.

Been charming bats in solB and trying to team up w/ monks. Its pretty solid.

Maybe I should go check out CoM and root rot there or team up w/ a necro?

[Jimjam]

Cast illusion ranger and pull / cc adds otw in. A decent group in KC should tear thru mobs so there is barely time for puller to melee or med so no one should care.

Charm a caller of sathir pet to get some laughs (the caller has to die before the pet to achieve this). Try get in group through a successful charisma check! :D

I'd take a Druid in a KC group, especially if they knew how to assist pulls with harmony. Bodyguards is much easier split that way! If you have a monk in group they'd appreciate it. I think using the backroom of lcy is in range to cast harmony through the ceiling so you don't need to go too far if just on assist. Likewise with hands room through the floor.

For me, a Druid is always welcome in a group, especially if we don't already have a damage shield or regen from other sources. What amuses me is how everyone spends so much effort over attaining tiny stat increments but will click off wolf form despite its huge attack buff!

[Duckwalk]

The shaman epic makes this ridiculously easy because it’s a 1.5 minute time and the damage increases towards completion making it obvious when you need to reapply spells and roots. Without addons it’s trivial to root rot 6-8 mobs at once reapplying root when you redot. And doing multiple mobs at once is where the efficiency comes in that makes this more viable than quadding or charming.

No canni: I couldn’t imagine trying to catch med ticks between casts of epic, arms, or root and the simple truth is being able to root root multiple mobs non stop without numerous or extended mana breaks is what makes this strategy worthwhile. Comparatively, it’s trivial to throw a canni in between every cast as if you’re rotting 4+ mobs there are really just too many required clicks per minute to led effectively.

No malo line:
Yes druids get the MR debuff for animals but as is the problem with finding viable charm targets, there just aren’t that many animals around in dungeons. And while not as essential to a root rot, a shamans ability to preemptively toss a mr debuff on pull basically equates to root never breaking. This allows a shaman to root rot multiple mobs in tight quarters with far less fear of danger.

What does this look like altogether? I did half of 59 in about 8hours at the neriak ogres camp solo on my shaman and it was about the easiest experience I had found until that point. Pull with malosini (because they have higher MR), drag to a safe spot, root, dot, dot, reroot, pull next and keep going. The damage on my dot doubled as a timer. For basically the entire time I was there I had a ogre dying essentially every 1.5-2 minutes. I never had to stop pulling.

Conclusion:
Is this possible on a Druid? Probably? Maybe? I think to approach the same efficiency that shaman get out of the box you’d need a host of addons to keep track of timers and then I worry you run into mana problems or would need to stop after having to waste too much mana healing yourself from root break damage. Alternatively, you could charm or quads and approach the same exp far easier.

Anyways, sorry for the rambling post. I have an epic Druid in the mid50s and my response turned into a thought experiment as to exactly how far you could take Druid root rotting and the potential differences / downsides. Between easy ports to CS for random quadding and gates back to the bear pits unless I was planning on going somewhere like Chardok to charm dogs in a group I couldn’t justify other means of exping

[Dezlen]

The shaman epic makes this ridiculously easy because it’s a 1.5 minute time and the damage increases towards completion making it obvious when you need to reapply spells and roots. Without addons it’s trivial to root rot 6-8 mobs at once reapplying root when you redot. And doing multiple mobs at once is where the efficiency comes in that makes this more viable than quadding or charming.

No canni: I couldn’t imagine trying to catch med ticks between casts of epic, arms, or root and the simple truth is being able to root root multiple mobs non stop without numerous or extended mana breaks is what makes this strategy worthwhile. Comparatively, it’s trivial to throw a canni in between every cast as if you’re rotting 4+ mobs there are really just too many required clicks per minute to led effectively.

No malo line:
Yes druids get the MR debuff for animals but as is the problem with finding viable charm targets, there just aren’t that many animals around in dungeons. And while not as essential to a root rot, a shamans ability to preemptively toss a mr debuff on pull basically equates to root never breaking. This allows a shaman to root rot multiple mobs in tight quarters with far less fear of danger.

What does this look like altogether? I did half of 59 in about 8hours at the neriak ogres camp solo on my shaman and it was about the easiest experience I had found until that point. Pull with malosini (because they have higher MR), drag to a safe spot, root, dot, dot, reroot, pull next and keep going. The damage on my dot doubled as a timer. For basically the entire time I was there I had a ogre dying essentially every 1.5-2 minutes. I never had to stop pulling.

Conclusion:
Is this possible on a Druid? Probably? Maybe? I think to approach the same efficiency that shaman get out of the box you’d need a host of addons to keep track of timers and then I worry you run into mana problems or would need to stop after having to waste too much mana healing yourself from root break damage. Alternatively, you could charm or quads and approach the same exp far easier.

Anyways, sorry for the rambling post. I have an epic Druid in the mid50s and my response turned into a thought experiment as to exactly how far you could take Druid root rotting and the potential differences / downsides. Between easy ports to CS for random quadding and gates back to the bear pits unless I was planning on going somewhere like Chardok to charm dogs in a group I couldn’t justify other means of exping

Druid root rotting is not the same as shaman root rotting. Like you said, druids don't have the insane mana regen or -mr line that shaman do. Instead, druids have snare and harmony for control, along with 2 clicky sources of damage and 1 clicky heal (from velious BP). You have to tailor your exp sessions to the class strengths. Druids need more room to do this with 4-8 mobs, so that leaves out lots of dungeons that shaman can easily do.

I would much rather find other places to exp and loot than sit in perma fighting with 9000 other druids for a camp, or quad the same stuff again and again for 10 levels. Rotting 4-8 mobs is soooo much more efficient than quadding. By the time you have snare 4 mobs, roped them together, burn them down, then med up you could have rotted twice that number in an outdoor dungeon for better exp and have mana ready for the next pull.

[Duckwalk]

Druid root rotting is not the same as shaman root rotting. Like you said, druids don't have the insane mana regen or -mr line that shaman do. Instead, druids have snare and harmony for control, along with 2 clicky sources of damage and 1 clicky heal (from velious BP). You have to tailor your exp sessions to the class strengths. Druids need more room to do this with 4-8 mobs, so that leaves out lots of dungeons that shaman can easily do.

I would much rather find other places to exp and loot than sit in perma fighting with 9000 other druids for a camp, or quad the same stuff again and again for 10 levels. Rotting 4-8 mobs is soooo much more efficient than quadding. By the time you have snare 4 mobs, roped them together, burn them down, then med up you could have rotted twice that number in an outdoor dungeon for better exp and have mana ready for the next pull.


Is it though? I’d like to examine the numbers on this. It seems to me from my experience that between 3-4 roots per mob @ 10 minutes a killed youre bleeding mana and have to stop to med. Assuming you never had to stop (like shaman) you’d come out on top of quadding and charming but otherwise you slowly lose ground.

Also ZEM.

[Duckwalk]

Also with a 9 second cast time and 1 minute duration you’re only rotting 6 mobs before you’re literally spending the entire duration refreshing arm click. With with root and epic clicks also 4-5 mobs seems to approach the outer limit before you suffer a 50% DPS loss.

[Gumbo]

I believe more people are going to say that quadding or charming is way better than rooting because after level 50, there is very minimal to even root/rot.

Also I have never seen a root last the full 3 minutes on any level 50+ mob anyway so you are always having to recast root... Druids root sucks...

[Troxx]

Quadding is significantly more mana efficient and this faster xp than root rot. Additionally it allows for more afk down time to do other things.

This assumes you can find a good place to quad kite that isn’t already camped. Finding a place to quad can be frustrating.

[MikeXG]

Quadding is significantly more mana efficient and this faster xp than root rot. Additionally it allows for more afk down time to do other things.

This assumes you can find a good place to quad kite that isn’t already camped. Finding a place to quad can be frustrating.

This is why my Druid is stuck at 52. Every time I try and get wyverns in CS it's camped. I ended up selling my lumi staff and buying jboots for my necro. I'd love to polish off Druid, but I am not sure I wanna buy a lumi staff again since it drops off around 52 and I am having trouble finding locations to quad.

[loramin]

Emerald Jungle apes aren't too hard to quad (you do have to avoid other mobs, but it's not bad), I think you can do them at 52, and they're almost never camped. Plus if you haven't gotten your epic yet you can get the tainted one to spawn that way.

WL is another great quading spot. 4s and 6s are often camped, but not always, and it's easy for Druids (with WL port) to check. Plus you can always pop over, do a camp check, ask the people doing them to tell you when they leave, and then go do somewhere else (like EJ) until they do.

[MikeXG]

Emerald Jungle apes aren't too hard to quad (you do have to avoid other mobs, but it's not bad), I think you can do them at 52, and they're almost never camped. Plus if you haven't gotten your epic yet you can get the tainted one to spawn that way.

WL is another great quading spot. 4s and 6s are often camped, but not always, and it's easy for Druids (with WL port) to check. Plus you can always pop over, do a camp check, ask the people doing them to tell you when they leave, and then go do somewhere else (like EJ) until they do.

Hmm true. I'll need to check it out. 4s and 6s have been camped pretty bad lately, I keep checking for my bard.

I am not even close to epic, doubt I'll ever obtain one. My guild consists of a handful of RL friends. So anything that requires raising or high end grouping would need to be PUG or purchased.

[loramin]

If you ever do want to go for it, I've summarized the "hard" (ie. need a guild) parts at the top of http://wiki.project1999.com/Druid_Epic_Quest.

Really (especially compared to other classes like Mage or Shaman) Druids have it pretty easy. You can buy a Jade Reaver, and you can probably buy a Pulsing Green Stone MQ. That just leaves Faydedar as the only encounter you'll need a raid force for.

You'll also need help, but not raid-level help, with Ulump Pujluk (a group), Corrupted seafury cyclops (need one Necro), Corrupted Seahorse (bring a Torpor Shaman or a couple of friends) and The Corrupted Brownie (bring a friend or two).

In other words if you save your plat and get your RL friends to help you, the only thing you'll really need more people for is the Faydedar raid (and even that you probably could save up enough to "rent a raid force" for).

[Crede]

Hmm true. I'll need to check it out. 4s and 6s have been camped pretty bad lately, I keep checking for my bard.

I am not even close to epic, doubt I'll ever obtain one. My guild consists of a handful of RL friends. So anything that requires raising or high end grouping would need to be PUG or purchased.

Druid epic is one of the cheaper epics to purchase nowadays thanks to triggered vs and fay. The stuff you can’t solo should run you 45kish.

[MikeXG]

Druid epic is one of the cheaper epics to purchase nowadays thanks to triggered vs and fay. The stuff you can’t solo should run you 45kish.

Hmm tempting. If I "bought" an epic I'm not 100% it would be the druids, but it certainly is in the running give cost and relative ease compared to others.


If you ever do want to go for it, I've summarized the "hard" (ie. need a guild) parts at the top of http://wiki.project1999.com/Druid_Epic_Quest.

Really (especially compared to other classes like Mage or Shaman) Druids have it pretty easy. You can buy a Jade Reaver, and you can probably buy a Pulsing Green Stone MQ. That just leaves Faydedar as the only encounter you'll need a raid force for.

You'll also need help, but not raid-level help, with Ulump Pujluk (a group), Corrupted seafury cyclops (need one Necro), Corrupted Seahorse (bring a Torpor Shaman or a couple of friends) and The Corrupted Brownie (bring a friend or two).

In other words if you save your plat and get your RL friends to help you, the only thing you'll really need more people for is the Faydedar raid (and even that you probably could save up enough to "rent a raid force" for).

I was under the impression shaman was one of the easiest? I appreciate the consolidated right up, your guides are always very helpful. Thanks mate.

[honeybee12874]

Druid epic is one of the cheaper epics to purchase nowadays thanks to triggered vs and fay. The stuff you can’t solo should run you 45kish.

Just to add in my 2 cents :) My Druid Epic cost 42k total.

For Corrupted Brownie I had a 60 Enchanter help out and for Ulump Pujluk I had the 60 Enchanter team up with a 55 Cleric to help out. Now I don't necessarily suggest ENC/CLR to duo Ulump... I think we just got lucky with no charm break during the fight, but... we were crazy enough to try it and it worked lol

[loramin]

Just to add in my 2 cents :) My Druid Epic cost 42k total.

For Corrupted Brownie I had a 60 Enchanter help out and for Ulump Pujluk I had the 60 Enchanter team up with a 55 Cleric to help out. Now I don't necessarily suggest ENC/CLR to duo Ulump... I think we just got lucky with no charm break during the fight, but... we were crazy enough to try it and it worked lol

I've heard people claim it's doable with just a good level 60 Enchanter (and the Druid). YMMV.

[Crede]

I've heard people claim it's doable with just a good level 60 Enchanter (and the Druid). YMMV.

Charming the guards to kill ulump is sketchy. They are level 50 and can break a lot. A druid can prob kill it with a good war and 1 good dps. . That thing barely moves the health on a disc’d war Better off just getting a tank to be safe. Plate tank/cleric/and chanter charming grik trio is my preference.

I duod him once on my cleric with a mage epic pet. Fight was insane, was basically spamming cheals and mod rods the whole time. When ulump started to flee, the lack of dps from damage shield took like 5-10 min for the epic pet to kill him. Was barely breaking regen.

[Crawdad]

Charming/Quadding>Rotting

Rotting gets a bad rap, mostly because its so slow and mana inefficient if you're having to cast your DoTs. ESV+Epic on multiple, low Hp mobs isn't bad Exp at all, its just outclassed by quadding (Something like 8-9 damage per mana, which is great) and charming (~500 mana to kill two mobs). It shines when you want to just DoT up a few mobs and sit back. BB dock and hut guards, named giants in FM, and goos in WL are some not bad rotting spots 52+.



I am not even close to epic, doubt I'll ever obtain one. My guild consists of a handful of RL friends. So anything that requires raising or high end grouping would need to be PUG or purchased.

I got a wry hair and decided to do my epic at 52, it only took about 2 weeks of semi-casual play to go from nothing but a frozen tundra root to leafblower. You can PUG Uulump with Cleric+Ench+Tank to make it cake (use Grik (https://wiki.project1999.com/Grik_the_Exiled)in SoNH for charmed pet). Triggered Faydedar only takes a 60 tank+cleric+Dps+Sham/Ench, you'll just need patience to PUG him when friends aren't raiding. VS takes quite a bit of coordination compared to the rest, so if you don't raid just be ready for the (potentially painful to raise outside of DaP) 20k MQ.

If you have friends but no raiding guild, aren't shy about asking politely for help, and have a means to raise money, you can get your druid epic for ~35k.

[honeybee12874]

Charming the guards to kill ulump is sketchy. They are level 50 and can break a lot.

Oh yeah, I never said it wasn't a sketchy idea :D I was shocked when it worked. I believe the Enchanter used Crusador Savot (https://wiki.project1999.com/Crusader_Savot). I think we got super lucky he didn't break at all during the fight.

[Gumbo]

Biggest pain about killing Ulump is when the dude wants to keep hitting the swamps and swimming away.