Starting faction modifiers for Priests of Life

[Jimjam]

Inspired by thread Default Erudite SK faction with Temple of Life (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2944013) I have deduced some of the starting faction modifiers used by Priests of Life as a fellow poster had reported the p1999 values were not classic.

Specifically I have derived the correct modifiers (as per Test Server, so there may be discrepancies with deep classic, but I expect it is closer to classic than what is currently implemented on p1999) for Agnostic, Cazic Thule, Innoruuk, Erudite, Human, Troll, Cleric, Shadowknight and Warrior, in respect to default Priests of Life faction standing.

The method was simple: create a bunch of characters on live test server and use their faction standing tool to see what that characters default faction was with priests of life. From there look at the differences and find a zero point to work out what the modifiers were.

Here we go:


Starting faction for Priests of Life
Erudite Shadowknight Cazic Thule -425

Erudite Cleric Cazic Thule -225

Troll Shadowknight Cazic Thule -1250

Troll Shadowknight Innoruuk -1250

Human shadowknight Innoruuk -400

Human Cleric Innoruuk -200

Human Cleric Life 100

Human Warrior Life 100

Human Warrior Agnostic 0 Here is our zero point! From here we can deduct what the modifiers are!

Differences observed in starting factions
Shadowknight is 200 lower than cleric.

Cazic and Innoruuk are equal.

Troll is 825 lower than Erudite.

Troll is 850 lower than human.

Erudite is 25 lower than human.

Cazic / Inny are 300 lower than life.

Warrior is equal to cleric.

Agnostic is 100 below life.

Starting faction modifiers by race, deity and class for Priests of Life.
Erudite -25
Troll -850
Cazic Thule and Innoruuk -200
Rodcet Nife +100
Human, Agnostic, Cleric, Warrior +/- 0
Shadowknight -200

I hope these adjustments can be implemented and fix Being Krennic's faction issue!

If it is confirmed my numbers can be used, I am willing to delve deeper into starting faction values.

[Jimjam]

Starting faction modifiers by race, deity and class for Priests of Life.
Erudite -25
Troll -850
Cazic Thule and Innoruuk -200
Rodcet Nife +100
Human, Agnostic, Cleric, Warrior +/- 0
Shadowknight -200



Will research derived from the live faction tabs like this be used? I'm willing to spend time deriving starting faction modifiers by race/class/deity factors if the work will be used.

Especially if someone would help me script a parse / calculator for automatically computing the values of modifiers.

[Jimjam]

Found a text dump from live regarding faction modifiers.


https://pastebin.com/raw/EXkdMT1W


Includes modifiers for a whole bunch of different factions, e.g.

341 - Priests of Life
-200 5 ShadowKnight
-200 11 Necromancer
-25 52 Barbarian
-25 53 Erudite
-25 54 Wood Elf
-25 55 High Elf
-200 56 Dark Elf
-25 58 Dwarf
-850 59 Troll
-750 60 Ogre
-25 61 Halfling
-25 62 Gnome
-850 178 Iksar
-25 180 Vah Shir
-200 201 Bertoxxulous
-50 202 Brell Serilis
-200 203 Cazic-Thule
-25 204 Erollisi Marr
-50 205 Fizzlethorp
-200 206 Innoruuk
-25 208 Mithaniel Marr
-25 209 Prexus
-200 211 Rallos Zek
100 212 Rodcet Nife
-100 213 Solusek Ro
-25 214 Tribunal
-100 216 Veeshan

You'll note the values I derived match this dump.

Would it be possible to implement this, then reverse engineer any changes that happened between the classic period and when this dump was constructed?

There are so many factions on p1999 that aren't quite right. I think implementing the above link would certainly help more than it harms (I know a few faction mods probably got altered between classic and when this dump was created).

[Dolalin]

I think this is a very worthwhile enterprise, Jimjam.

I was reading this old starting guide for Human Innoruuk SKs and it mentioned being KoS to many NPCs, such as the NPC outside the bard's guild in Freeport. By this I presume Marus Kemson, as he's the only one standing outside.

I created a level 1 Innoruuk SK to test, and Marus only cons apprehensive.

Paladins also only con dubious, when they should be kos.


Before you start killing things take the time to memorize the layout of Freeport. Take particular care to develop a route from the West Freeport newbie zone to the East Freeport slums that avoids passing any character with an honorific in front of their name. If you see Sir or Lady above a characters head RUN! I was randomly killed by several Paladins at levels 1 to 3 before I developed that 6th sense that told me that someone had a lot of Orc in them. Guards, on the other hand, are generally okay, they won’t be civil to you but they won’t kill you either.

...

First, you need to map out the underground of Freeport so that you can move around easily. It’s dark so I recommend killing a Firebeetle for an eye, which appears to be better than a torch. Also you don’t have to hold the Firebeetle eye in your hand, just having it out in one of your open inventory slots activates it. The Underground includes exits in East Newbie, West Newbie, The Docks, and the Harbor. There are also several ways to get to North Freeport, which is important because the Paladins that guard North Freeport will kill you on sight. I haven’t accurately mapped these yet so there’s work to be done.


http://web.archive.org/web/19990908023614/http://everquest.gamestats.com/SKGuide.htm

Evil humans in Freeport have it much too easy and it ain't classic!

[Dolalin]

Looks like it's just the paladins he's kos to, not the bankers.


As I sit at level 9 my only real concern is what to do with all the silver and copper I’ve accumulated. The one service that I really don’t have access to is a Bank. The Vault is in North Freeport and I’m KOS there.

...

The bank in North Freeport is still off limits because of the Paladins who guard it.


As a side note, I would suspect the same would apply to Bertoxxulous worshipping humans, I will dig a little on this.

[Dolalin]

Jimjam I've been going through these faction numbers, and if those live values you've posted are right, they still don't add up.

Here are the values for Knights of Truth:

281 - Knights of Truth
50 3 Paladin
25 4 Ranger
-200 5 ShadowKnight
25 6 Druid
10 7 Monk
-100 9 Rogue
-200 11 Necromancer
-10 52 Barbarian
-350 56 Dark Elf
-10 58 Dwarf
-750 59 Troll
-750 60 Ogre
-1000 178 Iksar
-10 180 Vah Shir
-200 201 Bertoxxulous
-200 203 Cazic-Thule
50 204 Erollisi Marr
-200 206 Innoruuk
10 207 Karana
100 208 Mithaniel Marr
25 212 Rodcet Nife
50 214 Tribunal
-100 216 Veeshan

If these are right, a Human Innoruuk SK should only have a -400 modifier with KoT, which would put them at... apprehensive? That doesn't seem correct.

Am I missing something here?

It seems like the modifiers for Innoruuk + SK would have to = -700, at least, based on how faction works on P99 (https://wiki.project1999.com/Faction).

These must have been tweaked at some point to make things easier?

[Dolalin]

I was reading the eqemu forums and came across the disassembly for the original faction ranges off the original everquest.exe from the launch CD.

http://www.eqemulator.org/forums/showpost.php?p=240236&postcount=8

It has Threateningly at -500.

Total conjecture here, but if we assume -200 Innoruuk and -200 Shadowknight is correct, and we add another -100 (at least) for turning in the newbie note to the OpalDarkbriar guild master, that would put our Human Innoruuk SK at threateningly (barely).

Again this is total conjecture, this is my first time looking at P99 faction in depth.

Edit: This wouldn't explain the Bards being kos though. I'm confused. :(

[Daldaen]

I think the title of this thread is somewhat misleading.

There’s no such thing as a starting faction modifier. These aren’t modifiers that you can ever shake.

Instead you can consider faction modifiers based on race, class and deity as modifiers that slide the entire faction table left or right.

Everyone starts at 0 faction on the -2000 to +2000 faction table. Then you shift that table based upon the faction modifiers.

Meaning if we use a Troll Shadowknight as an example, they have a -1250 shift. So upon creation, they have 0 faction in Priest of Life but when considering they are KoS. Even if they put in work and get 2000 positive faction hits, they will reach the top of their unmodified faction table and receive a “you cannot get any better” message from further faction hits. Then their final faction standing should be 750, which maxes them in low Warmly. There is no way other than through faction spells, for such a class/race/deity combination to consider higher than Warmly.

So if a Human Paladin and a Troll Shadowknight group together and both put in 2000 positive faction points, they will both reach the point where they cannot receive any additional faction and the Human Paladin will con Ally and the Troll Shadowknight will con Warmly.

This assumes we are at the timeline with Ally and Max faction messaging.

There are certain faction levels that specific combinations can never reach. Troll/Ogres with Rallos/Innoruuk deities I believe can’t get higher than I think it’s Dubious or apprehensively with live guk frogloks for example. Meanwhile Good elves and good races can get all the way to Warmly or Ally with them.

This also means with certain combinations, some quests or MQs are simply not possible because you can’t reach the needed faction level regardless of how much faction work you put in.

I don’t mean to take away from the work in this thread though. Getting the faction modifiers correct and the correct implementation is very important especially considering it’s possible some combinations should possibly not be able to complete certain quests or MQ certain items.

[Dolalin]

I think I have a partial answer for my side of things.

Indeed it seems like the faction modifiers were changed at some point to ease up on the kos-ness of human evils in NFP.


On 25 Nov 2001, GhostMachine wrote:
>If you play a Necromancer in Freeport, there is a price; you're KOS in North
>Freeport, which means you can't use the bank; my Necro has to carry everything
>on him.

I've never been KOS in north freeport othen then from the gnome and I've
played my human necromancer for over 6 months now (level 51)


https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/w5hG7oASvJE/1N5X35hPxSsJ

The guide I linked to above is quite old, I found it crawling the very old pre-Allakhazam Allakhazam:

http://web.archive.org/web/19991005054602/http://everquest.gamestats.com/

The faction modifiers Jimjam has dug up are probably not "bad" as such, in that case, just from a later era of course.

[Jimjam]

Thanks for your work.

It seems the next step is to see how pervasive the changes to race/class/deity based faction modifiers were; i.e are most of these 'new' values still correct for classic and just some of them need tweaking to be returned to the classic value, or if these post classic modifiers are largely wrong, in which case i guess they are nothing more than a curiosity and unuseful to the project.

[Dolalin]

I think I've just found a beta or very early launch guide. I am not sure there have been any big adjustments to these factions to be honest, because I'm having a lot of trouble finding any other source that human sk/necro were Kos in NFP.

If we take the faction values from the EQ disassembly I linked to, these values all seem to make sense. -400 for necro/sk would be very low dubious, 100 points above threatening.

I have the feeling there are some shenanigans at play here and that eqemu has different faction ranges from live and that's why it seems so confusing.

Overall though I think those faction offsets you've found are a great place to start.