Enchanter race/DE racial hide

[wholewitt]

Sorry if this is a question that gets asked a lot, forum search pulled up a crap load of results.

I am looking for some race advice on enchanter (for Green). I've read the wiki and was just curious about dark elf's racial hide as it isn't mentioned as significant. Does it only break charm sometimes? Can someone with experience help me decide if it's worth rolling DE for it or not? I currently have a 28 HIE and invising to get full xp on mobs when soloing is very annoying. I'm aware of the Goblin Gazughi Ring and intend on getting one but that is more of a long term goal and even then only provides invis vs animals.

Thanks for you advise!

[Baylan295]

Sorry if this is a question that gets asked a lot, forum search pulled up a crap load of results.

I am looking for some race advice on enchanter (for Green). I've read the wiki and was just curious about dark elf's racial hide as it isn't mentioned as significant. Does it only break charm sometimes? Can someone with experience help me decide if it's worth rolling DE for it or not? I currently have a 28 HIE and invising to get full xp on mobs when soloing is very annoying. I'm aware of the Goblin Gazughi Ring and intend on getting one but that is more of a long term goal and even then only provides invis vs animals.

Thanks for you advise!

Hide is nice, but inconsistent. There will be no guarantees you break charm with it and save yourself a spell gem (or mana). I recommend planning on using invis, and going high elf

[wholewitt]

Hide is nice, but inconsistent. There will be no guarantees you break charm with it and save yourself a spell gem (or mana). I recommend planning on using invis, and going high elf

That's all I needed. Thanks!

[Wallicker]

Invis vs animals with Ghazugi ring will instantly break any charm though.

[Benanov]

IIRC - if you are not a rogue, you cannot actually tell when Hide works, even with See Invis. You have to ask a friend.

Shadowknights get hide at 35 and on Live, I barely used it (Gather Shadows was better unless I was completely OOM).

[Crookstinger]

IIRC - if you are not a rogue, you cannot actually tell when Hide works, even with See Invis. You have to ask a friend.
You can target a non-indifferent (and non-undead, I think) mob before you hide. When hide works, the mob will con indifferent. There are some mobs that see through hide but they are fairly rare, I think.

[wholewitt]

Well I'm more concerned with hiding breaking the charm, which would be easy to notice. I didn't realize the Ghazugi ring broke all charms though. I imagine that mob is pretty constantly camped, especially once Green rolls around.

[Legidias]

gazughi has several spawn spots. It wont be severely camped cause its stupid rare

[stebbins99]

It won't be an in-game item until Kunark drops, just to note (drops off sarnaks in LOIO). It's a pain in the ass compared to many "camp items"

[caveslug]

I started with a enchanter on Blue, and rolled DE for the hide. As I had neither the money or high level character to farm for the ring. I found hide to work just fine, it's not 100% no but the recast time is small.

[Jimjam]

60% of the time it works every time.

To check success, if you don't have see invis on, you can /target your_name_here. If you don't target yourself hide was successful.

As it stands, on blue, even in off hours, it isn't unusual to have three different forces camping the courier fields. There are enough spawn points for even more. The 30 sec respawn and various different spawn points means the field can actually support a surprisingly large number of groups. It might be a popular levelling spot for groups of level 14-21 players once green gets Kunarked.

Don't forget goblin bracers can be turned in for Faydark Ringmail and faction/XP, plus plenty of jewellery, shields, finely crafted weapons, bone chips, cat pelts and excellent sabre tooth hides drop here too. Some of the marauder face rings are XP in cabilis. A nice all/all stat debuff proc weapon drops. I think maybe even the sarnak emblazed tunic too.

[wholewitt]

60% of the time it works every time.

To check success, if you don't have see invis on, you can /target your_name_here. If you don't target yourself hide was successful.

As it stands, on blue, even in off hours, it isn't unusual to have three different forces camping the courier fields. There are enough spawn points for even more. The 30 sec respawn and various different spawn points means the field can actually support a surprisingly large number of groups. It might be a popular levelling spot for groups of level 14-21 players once green gets Kunarked.

Don't forget goblin bracers can be turned in for Faydark Ringmail and faction/XP, plus plenty of jewellery, shields, finely crafted weapons, bone chips, cat pelts and excellent sabre tooth hides drop here too. Some of the marauder face rings are XP in cabilis. A nice all/all stat debuff proc weapon drops. I think maybe even the sarnak emblazed tunic too.

All great info. Thank you for all the detail. Tbh even 50% would make me happy. Since the ring cant be made until kunark (i failed to consider this) it makes me think DE would be the way to go...maybe I'm overthinking it!

[caveslug]

All great info. Thank you for all the detail. Tbh even 50% would make me happy. Since the ring cant be made until kunark (i failed to consider this) it makes me think DE would be the way to go...maybe I'm overthinking it!

As said I went DE on Blue, Started charming I think on the orc highway what ever level that was till level 30. All using hide as my charm break, only every had a issue with hide failing over and over a couple of times. As said the cool down is fairly quick, and only a few bad multiple fails will be an issue. Even then just re-root the non charmed mob, even after farming a ring I still use hide first.

[NegaStoat]

I tried using Hide for charm breaks on my DE enchanter, and personally I found it to be too annoying. I'd suggest taking a good hard look at the difference in caster stats between Dark Elf and other races, especially High Elf, and ask yourself a question. Is the ability to use an unlimited duration Hide for going AFK worth the loss in stat points? Because at higher level use in even moderately challenging camps and dungeon diving, using Hide for breaks is just a pain in the ass and asking for trouble.

In the case that you will make considerable use of Hide for AFK, by all means, go for it.

[nostalgiaquest]

On my enchanter I personally am happy I went DE for hide. He's level 56 now and I've charmed a majority of the way there, with no gauz ring for the majority of that time.

As its been stated, hide is very unreliable, but it is nice when it works. I also rarely used invis to break charm and rather used taper enchantment - I kept forgetting to target myself while invising so i'd end up invising my charmed mob on accident. Taper dispells the charm and then you have the mob already targeted and ready for a root. So as i was getting ready to cast taper, i would hit hide first and maybe get lucky with a break.

that being said the stats on the high elf are much better for an enchanter. I don't think there's really a wrong answer here. I personally think high elves are ugly as fudge though, and that's what tipped it to DE for me. Sure you have illusions, but underneath that sexy DE illusion, you'll still be an ugly high elf.

[Mentathiel]

As it stands, on blue, even in off hours, it isn't unusual to have three different forces camping the courier fields. There are enough spawn points for even more. The 30 sec respawn and various different spawn points means the field can actually support a surprisingly large number of groups.

The one time I poked my head in to fight the courier, there was a bard swarm-kiting. I suppose that is one way to farm...

[kabouter]

As said I went DE on Blue, Started charming I think on the orc highway what ever level that was till level 30. All using hide as my charm break, only every had a issue with hide failing over and over a couple of times. As said the cool down is fairly quick, and only a few bad multiple fails will be an issue. Even then just re-root the non charmed mob, even after farming a ring I still use hide first.

Why would you use hide over the ring, the ring is an insta cast item right?

What would you say the success rate of hide is? I'd rather not play a high elf on green, my preference has a gnome, but they have nothing going for them, at least the dark elf has hide to potentially offset the low charisma.

[Hibbs]

I am looking for some race advice on enchanter (for Green).

Why would you use hide over the ring, the ring is an insta cast item right?

Will probably be close to a year before you are able to get Goblin Gazughi Ring.

[kabouter]

Will probably be close to a year before you are able to get Goblin Gazughi Ring.
Oh yes, but I was referring to his statement that on blue he is still using hide first even though he has the ring. I've never played an enchanter so I was wondering what the reason for that might be.

Either way it will be tougher on green:
- spell book + meditate button
- no insta click charm break
- no breeze
- difficult to get high charisma

Will be interesting :)

[Isey]

My main is a 54 ENC. To time a charm kill just right for mana efficiency if hide doesn't work you lose 50% of the XP. And that hide (I believe) is a 50% chance (or less - I charm kill on my WE druid as well). So just get used to casting invis as over time, the onvis cast plus med plus full XP will outweigh the failed invis XP hit.

So the answer is - go gnome. Going gnome is always the answer :)

[kabouter]

My main is a 54 ENC. To time a charm kill just right for mana efficiency if hide doesn't work you lose 50% of the XP. And that hide (I believe) is a 50% chance (or less - I charm kill on my WE druid as well). So just get used to casting invis as over time, the onvis cast plus med plus full XP will outweigh the failed invis XP hit.

So the answer is - go gnome. Going gnome is always the answer :)

I'd probably agree with the gnome part, but how much charisma does an enchanter need to be able to solo charm reasonably well? The only videos I've seen of low level enchanters were twinks with 200+ cha unbuffed.

[vetia]

I'd probably agree with the gnome part, but how much charisma does an enchanter need to be able to solo charm reasonably well? The only videos I've seen of low level enchanters were twinks with 200+ cha unbuffed.

I have a 20s enchanter and around 140 charisma with the charm buff we get. It's fine. I have charms last forever, though some break sooner (its random duration), and have almost never had a resist even when my charisma was lower and pre charisma buff. The key is to only charm greens until you feel really comfortable. Blues break much, much more often.

[DMN]

Back in the day I made an erudite enchanter on the grounds it was much easier to find + charisma gear, as well as there not being much competition for +cha gear. My general theory was to focus on hit points while loading up with +cha gear and riding out the erudite int for all it was worth.

That was my "classic" time period logic, anyway. And it was generally agreed upon that all stats had significant diminishing returns, so, in a way, you wanedt to get more well rounded stats for the ultimate "end game" character. so when you look at erud sta+cha+int, it was clearly the best min-max race. And since I was in an uber guild, I really was never worried about CR. Any thoughts about my "naked" charisma never entered my mind.

[unleashedd]

for efficiency, i think it would be ring > hide > taper enc > ivu > invis

especially on green, go highelf for max cha

[Rang]

high elfs are hideous and the slightly extra cha won't make a difference. DE is min/max best /thread

[isoka]

IIRC - if you are not a rogue, you cannot actually tell when Hide works, even with See Invis. You have to ask a friend.

Shadowknights get hide at 35 and on Live, I barely used it (Gather Shadows was better unless I was completely OOM).

If you are not a rogue and want to check if your hide is active or not, untarget yourself, do "/target [yourname]" command.
If you are targeted, your hide failed, if not, your hide is active.

Considering a npc with faction change is another way to check, but there are cases where this won't work (on indiff mobs while invis and undeads which are kos to you for example)

[Halfcell]

Extra cha as a high elf is more important than the hide ability for DE. Cha is a challenge for many enchanters to max even in Velious, starting in classic it will be impossible. You want to be a high elf imo.

[Seiter02]

I've gone back and forth on this so many times over the years and experienced so many different enchanters from so many different play styles, tiers of gear and other that I think it's safe to say anything can be made to work, especially on blue.

Even the concept of min-maxing for HP/CHA is debatable and I've participated in very good arguments that lead me to believe that min-maxing for CHA/INT is arguably better in some scenarios.

If I were to reroll again on blue, I would make an Erudite. Their CHA+INT baseline is higher than high elves by 5 points and their STA is higher by 5 points. This is partially mitigated by the (questionable) 5 points into AGI baseline required to avoid the AC penalty.

If I were to reroll on green, I would make a high elf. It will be a long time before you can reasonably hit 255 and starting at 90 is hard to beat.

[rewinder47]

I was struggling with this issue as well (High Elf for stats vs. Gnome for looks), but then I found out that RektYou (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbNz0sxV63-RVvTqZon-UgQ), who does awesome Enchanter soloing videos on Youtube, has a base Charisma of 95 and still kicks ass (he plays High Elf but didn't put any points into CHA). He does have access to Kunark/Velious gear since he's on Blue, but eventually everyone on Green will too.

So just pick the race that you think looks coolest, and as long as you dump 25 points into CHA and focus on CHA gear you will be fine. Do you really want to be a copy/pasted version of everyone else anyway?

[NachoHunter]

The goblin ring will/should break charm period regardless of creature type. Just like CoS will break undead charm for necro's even though it's regular invis. This is something I've learned recently. I have a goblin ring and plan to test it but I've been told it works

[kabouter]

The goblin ring will/should break charm period regardless of creature type. Just like CoS will break undead charm for necro's even though it's regular invis. This is something I've learned recently. I have a goblin ring and plan to test it but I've been told it works

It does, but that is why it is so expensive. For us wanting to start again on green we won't be seeing that item any time soon, since:

1. it won't drop until Kunark
2. once it drops it will probably be even more expensive than on blue, due to supply and demand.

So hide will be a lot more valuable on green. Will be interesting to see how well the enchanter does now that they have removed npc target cycling as well.

[NachoHunter]

Very true. As far as your initial question, house isn't alone worth starting a DE. It's successful about 50% of the time with its low cap. You'll end up losing exp hoping for a successful hide. That being said, I believe DEs to be the best just because they're my favorite and have the coolest starting city lol

[NachoHunter]

Hide* isn't worth it. Stupid phone and it's auto correct

[Canelek]

It's a swing of what, 20 CHA? Keep in mind that while there is plenty of CHA gear in classic, if you want to charm early on, those extra points via HE race come in handy.

But when the Sol Ro Temple opens up, everyone gets to do the excellent quests for gloves, mask, and GCD spork.

As for hide, having played a DE enchanter (to 55) on P99, I found it useful, but the success rate was bad enough to keep IVU or invis memmed as backup.

Hide itself is awesome though since it gives you a great AFK tool.