What zones can a bard reasonably 1v1 solo in using primarily melee?

[Loadsamoney]

Using only melee buff/debuff songs, single target DoT's, healsong etc, and assuming decent gear (full Lambent set, Crystaline Short Sword and Symphonic Saber, Sash of the Dragonborn, 65HP rings) what can a Bard expect to be able to reasonably engage 1 on 1?

Are High Keep Guards or Splitpaw Gnolls an option, for instance? Or Terrors/Geodes/Spiders in CC?

No, I don't want to Swarmkite (though I'm okay to do some Fearkiting in outdoor zones like Great Divide).

[Legidias]

At what level? Also, lambent isn't decent gear. It basically gives you no useful stats but looks pretty. My condolences if you bought a set.

Strictly melee with just songs (and equivalent gear) bards can 1v1 most things any other melee can, except monks. So basically any blue / light blue in Vanilla / Kunark. Slow by itself, even at only 20-30% is a huge game changer and you self haste up to near cap. If you get too low and mob isnt, you can always mez mob and regen up.

Besides AE kiting and fear kiting, charm kiting is also very useful.

[rajax]

As long as you can Mez it and it doesn’t gate or summon you can melee it down as a bard. Bard melee output takes a noticeable hit compared to the other classes post 20 when everyone else has double attack. Every level after that bard melee just seems more lackluster especially once you have a full twist of DoT effects for solo/duo work.

So as mob Hp and damage output scales so much higher 40 and 50+ you are looking at more and more minutes of slowly regenning your hps after a handful of combat rounds while keeping your single target mezzed and hoping you don’t have a bad string of resists on mez and slow songs. If you really want to melee at end game you need a partner to add damage and keep fights from lasting forever.

[Loadsamoney]

At what level? Also, lambent isn't decent gear. It basically gives you no useful stats but looks pretty. My condolences if you bought a set.

Strictly melee with just songs (and equivalent gear) bards can 1v1 most things any other melee can, except monks. So basically any blue / light blue in Vanilla / Kunark. Slow by itself, even at only 20-30% is a huge game changer and you self haste up to near cap. If you get too low and mob isnt, you can always mez mob and regen up.

Besides AE kiting and fear kiting, charm kiting is also very useful.

I didn't buy Lambent, I'm actually thinking of getting Imbued Koada'Dal, as I can pass it on to a Cleric later on (would be a High Elf Cleric). But using the full set means no Haste item, so I'd only be using the pieces that show on my character: Chest, Legs, 1 Bracer, Boots, Gloves, Arms and Helmet.

[Crede]

Melee is fine until level 27. At that point, just switch to charming mobs. It costs no mana so from 27-50 you can basically nonstop charm kill if you know wtf you're doing and time your breaks and watch your health. As you get more single target Dot's, this gets even more powerful as you're sitting back loading them up in addition to charm dps. I was doing solo dungeon crawls in that level range that no twink/enchanter could have kept up with. Regen bp/fungi helps with this(which I'd save your pp for along with a nice drum). It gets even better at 45 if you pick up a singing steel bp. Unfortunately the higher level charm costs mana, but they're still one of the fastest levelers out there and you can switch to melee/fear kiting while you regen mana during that time.

[Legidias]

Imbued koada dal also sucks but looks pretty on bards. Crusty set is where you want to go for cheap.

[Troxx]

As a bard it really depends on your level. Up to 30ish the lack of double attack doesn’t set a bard back a lot. At higher levels 1v1 with melee isn’t impossible, it’s just pointless. You will do a lot more damage and have a lot less downtime twisting single target dots, slow/snare and regen when you can’t safely fear kite. When you can safely fear kite you still kill faster with instruments and dots than you ever will with raw melee. In terms of what you can kill ... an above poster nailed it on the head. If you can realistically mez it you can solo it. It might take forever, but you can do it.

[Troxx]

Imbued koada dal also sucks but looks pretty on bards. Crusty set is where you want to go for cheap.

That set in particular makes safely lull pulling dubious at best. The negative charisma completely negates the good aspect of of the armor - unless a person plans in carrying around another full armor set to swap out to when you’re inevitably called on to pull for a group. I had to pass on crusty for my paladin in lieu of a more expensive cultural amor set because of this :(

[Legidias]

cha only affects critical lulls and doesnt affect resist rate. Lvl >>>>>>>> cha for lulls.

[Loadsamoney]

Imbued koada dal also sucks but looks pretty on bards. Crusty set is where you want to go for cheap.

Isn't all that Cha penalty really, really bad for a Bard?

Armor doesn't have to be cheap, and Imbued Koada'Dal I'm leaning towards because when I eventually make a Cleric, I can use it on that on toon too. Otherwise I go questing for the Lambent armor.

Or get someone to make me some really cheap Fine Plate.

[Legidias]

Up to you, the only stat you really should care about is sta/hp, followed by resists and str.

Cha ONLY affects lull for you, and if that matters a ton then sure go ahead. Ive never had issues with it.

[Loadsamoney]

Up to you, the only stat you really should care about is sta/hp, followed by resists and str.

Cha ONLY affects lull for you, and if that matters a ton then sure go ahead. Ive never had issues with it.

Doesn't it affect Mez too?

[Legidias]

Nope, only critical lull resists

[Troxx]

cha only affects critical lulls and doesnt affect resist rate. Lvl >>>>>>>> cha for lulls.

I don’t disagree. Levels are indeed the most important aspect. And you’re right it doesn’t affect mez. Charm is so short it doesn’t really matter there either.

This is just about lull. Resists will happen, though, and murphy’s Law of the universe dictates it will always happen at the worst time. -48 charisma for a full set isn’t worth it for a class who’s going to pull with lull. If you didn’t have any other +cha gear and didn’t dump starting points into it that drops your charisma to 37. 37 charisma is a cha range where any ol’ resist can realistically be expected to be a critical resist. Have fun explaining to your group why that room of 5 they asked you to split all aggro’d. I don’t think they’d be keen on hearing why more stamina/str you didn’t functionally need was worth the group now scrambling to deal with a mess.

I suppose you could always just strip visibly naked when pulling ... but that kinda negates the benefit that armor actually gives eh?

Bards are not a class that is heavily stat dependent. More str and your dps will still be bad. Stamina returns are not stellar for bards and certainly not worth crucifying your pull capability.

I always liked to hover in the 100-120 chat range on Troxx with a cheap kobold jester crown and another item to situationally boost it another 30-45 for pull duty.

Good cheap lowbie armor set for a war/sk. Situationally decent for a paladin who doesn’t realize lull on a plate tank almost laughably breaks the relaxed xp group part of the game (or is just too lazy to be bothered to ever pull). Bards don’t need the perks the armor offers and only really stand to suffer.

Beyond the low/mid level game, its got garbage ac and isn’t much good for anyone.

[Legidias]

Meh, I was pulling and tanking in seb at 55+ with mixed crusty / thurg, so I never really had issues with -cha.

Everyone has their own experience. Just know that if lull is important to you and pulling, then yes keep cha high. Otherwise its a worthless stat.

[Troxx]

In general I never worried much about it unless I was splitting the dangerous areas (like emp room in CE or tightly packed areas with 5-7 mobs in close proximity) or later in some of the higher level velious zones. For those situations having and shaman around for an extra boost was always helpful.

If I’m completely honest though Troxx was a shit-flip’s worth of xp from 60 when velious hit and I got him full thurg not long after velious went live in a few early platehouse runs with my guild. I was never tempted by that rusty bucket of insanely high stamina. I have, on occasion, died quietly inside since then watching a rust-bucket paladin try in vain to do the puller duty and have a hard time splitting rooms. I still enjoy splitting with my paladin. In most zones it’s nice to know that the uncommon lull resist is only very rarely a critical resist.

[Loadsamoney]

My base Cha would be 100. +15 Cha, +5 Dex, +5 Sta with my bonus points.

[Legidias]

Up to you, bud. Regardless of whether you like lull or not though, to your original question about melee'ing stuff, it wont help you nearly as much as AC, HP, or str would once you're duking it out.

(Id upgrade your weaps a little bit if thats really what you want to do. Your max DPS will be having melee out, like breath of harmony or other >0.5 ratio weaps, while casting non-dots, and then switching to instrument right as dots land)

[Loadsamoney]

Up to you, bud. Regardless of whether you like lull or not though, to your original question about melee'ing stuff, it wont help you nearly as much as AC, HP, or str would once you're duking it out.

(Id upgrade your weaps a little bit if thats really what you want to do. Your max DPS will be having melee out, like breath of harmony or other >0.5 ratio weaps, while casting non-dots, and then switching to instrument right as dots land)

Symphonic Saber isn't a good weapon? It's 11/23. CSS is 12/24.

My argument for BoH is that it doesn't proc until 50...but then that negates the argument for using Symphonic Saber too. Heh.

Maybe CSS and Jagged Blade of Mourning?

[Legidias]

So, BoH doesn't proc. It's a click. 10/18 is an amazing ratio, and if that sword was usable by other classes it would be like 10k (but its bard only so <2k).

11/23 (or anything beneath 0.5 ratio) is pretty poops. 0.5 is 'standard' ratio for weapons. 12/24 is fine for offhand, though there is better (like that jagged blade of mourning).

[Loadsamoney]

So, BoH doesn't proc. It's a click. 10/18 is an amazing ratio, and if that sword was usable by other classes it would be like 10k (but its bard only so <2k).

11/23 (or anything beneath 0.5 ratio) is pretty poops. 0.5 is 'standard' ratio for weapons. 12/24 is fine for offhand, though there is better (like that jagged blade of mourning).

Well, maybe BoH and Jagged Blade then, until it's time to get the Singing Short Sword.

[Keebz]

Wanted to second CHA being only useful for Lull, which you only need if you want to. If you avoid really tightly packed dungeons, you'll be fine, especially given you have access to charm and mez which go a long way themselves.

For armor, just gear like you would a warrior, with the bonus int and cha aren't completely useless stats. For weapons I suggest Guardian Mace and Breath of Harmony.

As for zones to 1v1 tank and spank, somewhere outdoors in the old world is probably best, as velious and kunark mobs hit a lot harder. Indoor dungeons are probably find too if you're up for a bit of a challenge.

[Loadsamoney]

Wanted to second CHA being only useful for Lull, which you only need if you want to. If you avoid really tightly packed dungeons, you'll be fine, especially given you have access to charm and mez which go a long way themselves.

For armor, just gear like you would a warrior, with the bonus int and cha aren't completely useless stats. For weapons I suggest Guardian Mace and Breath of Harmony.

As for zones to 1v1 tank and spank, somewhere outdoors in the old world is probably best, as velious and kunark mobs hit a lot harder. Indoor dungeons are probably find too if you're up for a bit of a challenge.

It was a mistake leaving High Keep at 37, some of the Guards were still good experience. That zone is just frustrating sometimes because of how overcamped it can get.

[Loadsamoney]

As for anything below 0.5 being terrible, I'm still using Double Lamentation on my 45 Ranger (9/19, 6 Str, 6 Sta, 20HP). Is that terrible too? Because those two weapons are still serving me quite well. I intended them to be the placeholders for Swiftwind/Earthcaller.

[bradsamma]

As for anything below 0.5 being terrible, I'm still using Double Lamentation on my 45 Ranger (9/19, 6 Str, 6 Sta, 20HP). Is that terrible too? Because those two weapons are still serving me quite well. I intended them to be the placeholders for Swiftwind/Earthcaller.

Lammy's suck for their price IMO.

Get a jade mace for your primary at least. You'll actually see a decent damage boost from that alone.

Then get a Sarnak Parrying Blade for your offhand.

[Loadsamoney]

Okay, so Crustacean is out. In that case, what 7-piece armor set (Helm, Chest, Arms, Hands, Legs, Feet, Wrists)would you guys recommend for a halfelf Bard that would be a good hand-me-down for a Dwarf Paladin later?

Ideally, the other gear I plan to have on my Bard:

Breath of Harmony
Guardian's Mace
65HP Ring x2
Orc Fang Earring x2
Dire Wolf-Hide Cloak
Sash of the Dragonborn
Imbued Granite Spaulders
Crystal Spider Eyes

[Zipity]

If you really don’t want to swarm I’d suggest melee til 27 then you get a mana free charm that can easily lvl you in dungeons solo til 46 when you get your third drum dot where then you have a couple options to take you into your mid 50s solo without swarming. Then your best options are duoing if you don’t want to swarm you can literally duo very successfully with any class outside of a Paladin/Sk/Cleric due to lack of DPS if you get creative. And this will be FAST exp if done in the right places the right way. All slower than a proper swarm kite.

[Legidias]

TBH you could just throw on some small bronze and be able to melee most things with the rest of your gear. Slow and haste fill in so many gaps in just pure face tanking a mob solo.

[Loadsamoney]

TBH you could just throw on some small bronze and be able to melee most things with the rest of your gear. Slow and haste fill in so many gaps in just pure face tanking a mob solo.

Assuming I go Crustacean and pass it on to my Paladin later, is that Cha penalty going to hurt a Paladin that's called upon to Lull enemies for pulling?

[Tethler]

Assuming I go Crustacean and pass it on to my Paladin later, is that Cha penalty going to hurt a Paladin that's called upon to Lull enemies for pulling?

You would get more crit resists, yes.

[Jimjam]

You would get more crit resists, yes.

Great for pulling stuff that is in range but out of line of sight.

[Troxx]

Assuming I go Crustacean and pass it on to my Paladin later, is that Cha penalty going to hurt a Paladin that's called upon to Lull enemies for pulling?

Yes. By a lot. Level difference is the most important aspect of using lull but a paladin in crusty will have a much harder time. Most of the time it’s not a big deal but in the times where you’re asked to pull it generally isn’t just a matter of convenience.

If you’ve got a group with rockin cc/support I prefer to bring in multiples as it saves mana and time. If I’m lulling it’s usually solo/duo or hunting mobs of sufficiently high danger (ie higher level mobs with tighter packing) that you have to expect you run a chance of a resist. At 130-140 charisma I generally feel pretty secure knowing that resist will turn out ok.

[Loadsamoney]

Yes. By a lot. Level difference is the most important aspect of using lull but a paladin in crusty will have a much harder time. Most of the time it’s not a big deal but in the times where you’re asked to pull it generally isn’t just a matter of convenience.

If you’ve got a group with rockin cc/support I prefer to bring in multiples as it saves mana and time. If I’m lulling it’s usually solo/duo or hunting mobs of sufficiently high danger (ie higher level mobs with tighter packing) that you have to expect you run a chance of a resist. At 130-140 charisma I generally feel pretty secure knowing that resist will turn out ok.

So a Dwarf Paladin with only 55 base Cha is going to be pretty shitty at Lulling enemies anyway.