Ranger: Woodsman VS good DW combo

[Iksar_with_a_plan]

Deciding whether its worth it for a lvl 30 RNG to purchase the woodsman. With dmg cap lifted, it seems like a decent choice. However, with 11/18 MH and 12/20 OH, im wondering if the DW combo will simply perform better in most situations.

Self buffed haste is at 54% as well, now that a partial haste cap has been lifted. Meaning it may be tougher to pull off a DD spell in between woodsman strikes. But also the woodsman will have a lower delay.

[Crede]

OP doesn’t have money issues.

Buy the staff and parse for yourself IMO. Woodsman staff seemed to be the winner in kunark. But Those are significantly better weapons than were available in kunark so I wouldn’t be surprised if those particular 1h won out.

[Iksar_with_a_plan]

Ya it's hard to say really unless I actually put the staff to use.. As to DW skill, at 30 its actually somewhere around 125?.... Id have to check. Which doesn't equal that bad of a percentage. I'm sure the math could be done. I may as well try to figure it out...

That being said, it kind of works both ways. Yes my DW success chance is lower due to a lower skill cap atm, but my offensive skills and double attack skill caps are also low, meaning that a complete miss with a woodsman staff, or an unsuccessful double attack is more detrimental to overall dps than missing with faster 1 handers. On top of that, this isn't WoW where a certain weapon deals within a range of dmg that scales with level. For instance instead of a weapon doing 90 - 120 dmg per hit, the range of which I can hit with a woodsman staff is far wider. at lvl 30 id imagine I have the potential of hitting an opponent for damage near the same amount i can hit with a 1hander, making a swing of the like a loss compared to duel wielding. Hitting an opponent for 20 dmg with a woodsman's staff is possible. Either way, i guess the answer is to try it out and see.

EDIT: DW and Double Attack skills max at 155 at lvl 30

[Keebz]

From my calculations, it looks like staff is only better from 30-35. My formulas are mostly cribbed from forum posts and eqemu source, so take it with a grain of salt.

Regardless the staff is cheap and solid dps, so you may want to pick one up just to keep 2hb up to speed.

For reference: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cMjVU6hVTStCttFkICcVBQnZY87UGvu5FIKugZ5TBVU/edit?usp=sharing

[Arm_Chair_Hero]

From my calculations, it looks like staff is only better from 30-35. My formulas are mostly cribbed from forum posts and eqemu source, so take it with a grain of salt.

Regardless the staff is cheap and solid dps, so you may want to pick one up just to keep 2hb up to speed.

For reference: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cMjVU6hVTStCttFkICcVBQnZY87UGvu5FIKugZ5TBVU/edit?usp=sharing

This is super useful. There a way to enable others to use it?

[Iksar_with_a_plan]

From my calculations, it looks like staff is only better from 30-35. My formulas are mostly cribbed from forum posts and eqemu source, so take it with a grain of salt.

Regardless the staff is cheap and solid dps, so you may want to pick one up just to keep 2hb up to speed.

For reference: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cMjVU6hVTStCttFkICcVBQnZY87UGvu5FIKugZ5TBVU/edit?usp=sharing

Really nice resource... Bravo...

I don't doubt woodsman's efficacy at all, but I do notice that it gets a lot of hype for rangers in the mid-level range. What I dont understand is why something like exq velium 2handers (32/36) don't warrant the same attention for other melee classes. For instance I dont normally see level 30 something melees walking around with them all the time, or I dont see people suggesting these type of weapons very often to leveling melee characters.

[Troxx]

A generally good rule of thumb is that woodsman staff is better until one or some combination of the following things takes place:

-you have extremely high end 1hander weapons (prior to level 40)
-you acquire weapon ratios comparable to ranger epics in your early 50s
-you are 46+ and have actual epics (or at least swiftwind for superior haste and have otherwise crap worn haste)
-you have decent 1hander weapons and are creeping closer to 60 where damage bonus is more relevant for fast weapon superiority

If and when the final patch with 2hand dmg bonus hits, everything is going to shift.

Woodsman staff is cost effective and very solid for a wide range of levels. Where it drops off is entirely dependent on what worn haste you have and the quality of 1hander stuff you have available to you. If epic is easily within reach, for example, superior haste and a rock solid ratio shifts the balance to dual wield.

Prior to velious woodsman was the way to go until epics. Velious hit later and there are more high quality haste items and more readily available 1handers with solid ratios.

[Iksar_with_a_plan]

A generally good rule of thumb is that woodsman staff is better until one or some combination of the following things takes place:

-you have extremely high end 1hander weapons (prior to level 40)
-you acquire weapon ratios comparable to ranger epics in your early 50s
-you are 46+ and have actual epics (or at least swiftwind for superior haste and have otherwise crap worn haste)
-you have decent 1hander weapons and are creeping closer to 60 where damage bonus is more relevant for fast weapon superiority

If and when the final patch with 2hand dmg bonus hits, everything is going to shift.

Woodsman staff is cost effective and very solid for a wide range of levels. Where it drops off is entirely dependent on what worn haste you have and the quality of 1hander stuff you have available to you. If epic is easily within reach, for example, superior haste and a rock solid ratio shifts the balance to dual wield.

Prior to velious woodsman was the way to go until epics. Velious hit later and there are more high quality haste items and more readily available 1handers with solid ratios.

Well, would you say I fall under the first category? having 11/18 and 12/20 w/ 54% haste (Seahorse belt + PLunder patch)

[Keebz]

This is super useful. There a way to enable others to use it?

Can you copy it and start futzing? When I was still active, I was planning on adding some more features (I think the forumla is hard coded to warrior numbers right now) and maybe even making it into a web app. Perhaps if I start up again, I'll try that out.

What I dont understand is why something like exq velium 2handers (32/36) don't warrant the same attention for other melee classes.

At this point, it's just because Woodsman's staff is cheaper and generally available.

[Troxx]

Well, would you say I fall under the first category? having 11/18 and 12/20 w/ 54% haste (Seahorse belt + PLunder patch)

Spell haste on this topic isn’t relevant. Worn has is relevant only insofar as comparing epic haste vs inferior tradable other slot haste.

11/18 and 12/20 are good ratios. Very good. I’d rate them better than woodsman by a long shot once levels climb into the upper 40s and into the 50s. A woodsman doesn’t exactly compete with swiftblade of Zek and exquisite velium. From a strictly ratio standpoint 11/18 is a lot better than earthcaller. 12/20 is nearly the same ratio as swiftwind (though 40% worn haste and +30atk make it heads and shoulders better). WS doesn’t compete at that level.

[Arm_Chair_Hero]

No reason to use woodsman in place of atleast swiftwind at 46+.

[Xaeophi]

As much as I despise the Woodsman's Staff... It is actually going to perform much better at 30 - mid 40s opposed to the dual wielding. Now Dual wielding looks a lot cooler then looking like Master Roshi from DBZ which should be enough reason to just stick with the swords. ( But, Woodsman Staff will be better most likely ).
The reasoning of this is - Even though 11/18 and 12/20 are pretty decently damage and delay weapons you have to consider that:
Bonus damage increases the higher level you are ending at 60 which is like what.. 13?
At lvl 30 I think you either have 0 bonus damage or its like 1 or something.. You'll still do some nice damage with those weapons you have but you also have to take into account that your skill in dual wield is low and wont be activating as much as a level 60s would. Also.. Bonus damage does not apply to off hand.
If i recall - Dual Wielding usually starts taking the lead over Woodsman's staff somewhere in the mid - high 40s?

To answer your question though... If you're level 30 and already have some decent 1h weapons just save the plat/time. Don't buy the staff unless you just want to try it out just to replace it in 15 levels.

^^^ This should have answered the question. No reason to repeat.
No reason to use woodsman in place of atleast swiftwind at 46+.

Sidenote, If you are one of the fortunate rangers to be rocking both epics at 46. This combo will suffice until 60. Slow Proc on main hand will make the biggest difference if you're trying to grind it out to 60.

[Snaggles]

No reason to use woodsman in place of atleast swiftwind at 46+.

I’m curious with 36% haste (CoF/CoCW) when a woodsman is out-dps’ed by an epic and 10/18 or 12/21 primary (Zek’s too rich for me but would be interesting as well). I’m 57 with a CoCW and a Woodsy. If I have the chance to get a stone I’ll certainly start the quest but as a 99% solo player the droppable liquidity is attractive. Theorycrafting does give a nod to 2h in many cases as well.

I guess someday I’ll be able to parse it against every other Swiftwinded 60 ranger and answer the age old question nobody is asking, “What if I was extremely lazy and never got my epic?”.

[Ripqozko]

I’m curious with 36% haste (CoF/CoCW) when a woodsman is out-dps’ed by an epic and 10/18 or 12/21 primary (Zek’s too rich for me but would be interesting as well). I’m 57 with a CoCW and a Woodsy. If I have the chance to get a stone I’ll certainly start the quest but as a 99% solo player the droppable liquidity is attractive. Theorycrafting does give a nod to 2h in many cases as well.

I guess someday I’ll be able to parse it against every other Swiftwinded 60 ranger and answer the age old question nobody is asking, “What if I was extremely lazy and never got my epic?”.

Sell cocw buy stone MQ, have plat left over, grats on swiftwind and better haste

[loramin]

Can you copy it and start futzing? When I was still active, I was planning on adding some more features (I think the forumla is hard coded to warrior numbers right now) and maybe even making it into a web app. Perhaps if I start up again, I'll try that out.

I just came across this post. If you ever want I could code up a wiki version.

Just imagine the simplest interface possible (eg. the user has text boxes to input level, weapon #1 damage/delay, weapon #2 damage/delay, and then it displays damage per second). Describe it to me, and then give me the formula to calculate everything, and I should be able to make it work.