Default Druid Race - Root Neck / DS Gloves vs. Hide/Sneak

[GreldorEQ]

Hi Druids -

Now that we are years into Velious, I am curious as to how useful you have found the utility of your "racial" advantages?

I find that I continue to use Hide/Sneak often enough to maintain their value, whether it is sneaking to a camp in velks or working my way to king camp in seb. I also recall fondly the raid wipes I have survived by stepping into the shadows at just the right moment.

How would you value the racial differences (aside from looks, mustache ftw) now that our server is patched to druid completion? Do you love your root neck? Are your DS gloves indispensable? Will you hide/sneak circles around dead wood elf druids?!

Discuss!

[bigjeff100]

I'll never be lucky enough to have the gloves. But i have had the necklace for a long time, and i love it! I used to swap all my gear out when i needed to click a clicky, but i no longer care to do so, and this is now my permanent neck piece.. Along with the snare earring from Chardok.

7/10 times i'll use my highest root. But there have been times i've been out of mana and that necky click kept things rooted long enough to survive. Not only that but most of my time on P99 is spent adventuring through lower level zones, or helping low levels, and this clicky is perfect for that.. Minimum damage on root!

Anyways, as a casual player, this neck always stays equipped on me :)

[Crede]

I'll never be lucky enough to have the gloves. But i have had the necklace for a long time, and i love it! I used to swap all my gear out when i needed to click a clicky, but i no longer care to do so, and this is now my permanent neck piece.. Along with the snare earring from Chardok.

7/10 times i'll use my highest root. But there have been times i've been out of mana and that necky click kept things rooted long enough to survive. Not only that but most of my time on P99 is spent adventuring through lower level zones, or helping low levels, and this clicky is perfect for that.. Minimum damage on root!

Anyways, as a casual player, this neck always stays equipped on me :)

Gloves are a joke to get, my DAP druid has them. Vindi dies like every minute, so just catch the head rotting once like I did, and a WL faction group can kill the rest of the giants for you. No reason a casual can't obtain these, try to get a Vindi timer from any of the guilds and time it accordingly. These things are invaluable in any situation really, where you either can DS your pet or keep your group members perma DS'd.

Necklace was fantastic to have, you should be getting this no matter what. At 50+ charming in bear pits I usually just keep the actual Grasping Roots spell on if I need it in a hurry, in addition to a longer root. The 56 root is amazing so the necklace is mostly trivialized at that point, but you should still get it because it came in handy many many times. I rolled Human for RobeQuest, I never felt like I needed sneak/hide.

I would not give up the gloves to roll Karana

[loramin]

My druid is 60, so clearly I made the right choice by going Halfling for the XP bonus :)

I did the pits too, and never minded having to cast root ... although a mana-free root might have saved me from a few deaths (but then again, so would some root nets; I was just too lazy to get some).

But also I do like having Hide (and to a much lesser extent Sneak). Sure most of the time you can just Camo yourself or camp, but there's plenty of times when it's nice to let yourself sit AFK, recovering mana, with zero risk, and because Camo fades it doesn't let you do that the way Hide does.

[Jibartik]

I like the halfy cus they can see through walls too!

But damn leveling one again has made me see the intense mana sink grasping roots is...

So it makes me wonder if I should try to level one with a neck?

But then again, leveling up brewing to 150?? that sounds like hell to me...

So I am not sure what to do!

I am so on the fence about what my next druid should be! Help me and OP decide :o

Spamming grasping roots while my only cast spell rots the level 15 mobs to death sounds like epic shaman powerful :/

[Rang]

The gloves are so incredibly nice for power leveling. They aren’t absolutely necessary but they makes thing so much smoother mana wise. After using them I wouldn’t choose any other race regardless of the bonuses.

[jolanar]

My druid is 60, so clearly I made the right choice by going Halfling for the XP bonus :)

I did the pits too, and never minded having to cast root ... although a mana-free root might have saved me from a few deaths (but then again, so would some root nets; I was just too lazy to get some).

But also I do like having Hide (and to a much lesser extent Sneak). Sure most of the time you can just Camo yourself or camp, but there's plenty of times when it's nice to let yourself sit AFK, recovering mana, with zero risk, and because Camo fades it doesn't let you do that the way Hide does.

The way this is worded makes it sound like Wood Elfs don't also get hide as a racial.

[pijan]

Hairy feet. Nuf said

[loramin]

The way this is worded makes it sound like Wood Elfs don't also get hide as a racial.

I was speaking to all those people who were strongly considering making Human Druids ;)

[Jibartik]

I was leveling in perma and grasping roots was breaking a lot, is that root spell shit? I mean its all I can afford to use at low levels but, idk.. like is it a total shit root?

Using it for free, is not as efficient as using a stronger root, and medding instead of casting for 4 seconds?

I wish to know these secrets.

[deezy]

wood elves allow you to get the gloves, necklace, and hide
I was leveling in perma and grasping roots was breaking a lot, is that root spell shit? I mean its all I can afford to use at low levels but, idk.. like is it a total shit root?

Using it for free, is not as efficient as using a stronger root, and medding instead of casting for 4 seconds?
The necklace is useful for recharming your pet, powerleveling, or if you're oom. It's also decent if you're CCing vs monsters that summon. In most other cases casting root is probably better.

[Jibartik]

wood elves allow you to get the gloves, necklace, and hide

The necklace is useful for recharming your pet, powerleveling, or if you're oom. It's also decent if you're CCing vs monsters that summon. In most other cases casting root is probably better.

does the 4 sec cast make it annoying for re-charming though? like most charms are like 4-5 seconds long anyway, or do you charm 4 seconds away from your pet?

[deezy]

does the 4 sec cast make it annoying for re-charming though? like most charms are like 4-5 seconds long anyway, or do you charm 4 seconds away from your pet?

If I have time to use the root neck I will, but if I'm getting the crap beat out of me I'll use a normal root cast and then overwrite that with neck root before recharming.

[Stourne]

So I rolled Human Druid as that is what I truly want to be and I'm just hoping it doesn't keep me from any particular amazing druid GEAR. Not so much worried about sneak/hide. Am I good?

[Crede]

So I rolled Human Druid as that is what I truly want to be and I'm just hoping it doesn't keep me from any particular amazing druid GEAR. Not so much worried about sneak/hide. Am I good?

As long as you are Tunare, you picked the master Druid race. Enjoy looking like a boss in a robe, sneak/hide is not necessary. You get fixed invis at 50 if you need safe afks.

[loramin]

So I rolled Human Druid as that is what I truly want to be and I'm just hoping it doesn't keep me from any particular amazing druid GEAR. Not so much worried about sneak/hide. Am I good?

You picked the absolute worst Druid race: congrats, it really doesn't matter :)

The differences between races are all extremely minor in the grand scheme of things. You almost certainly won't miss sneak/hide, and you're not missing out on a huge amount of gear either, just: http://wiki.project1999.com/Category:Tunare_Worshiper_Equipment (mainly a mana-free root at low levels and a mana free damage shield at high levels).

[Ravager]

Sneak is really only useful getting around dungeons, and even then it's sketchy as you can very easily step into the vision cone or get ganked by a pather. It's true you can use it to vendor and bank where you can't, but you're a druid who can port to any damn place, so what difference does that really make? It's very seldom you'll actually need to sneak anywhere, but a free root is always handy.

Unlimited mana free root is OP. Yes it breaks early and has a short duration when it doesn't break, but it's unlimited and mana free with no cool down, so who really cares? Pair that with the mana free snare and you have all day to kill anything that doesn't summon. Dark Assassin once ganked my druid and I went on a revenge quest. It took me a half hour, but I killed that sob with nothing but clickies.

[Sacer]

Mines halfling, I couldn't care less about the root necklace it's probably as useful as those snare clickies wich I never use.

The gloves on the other side I regret not having them it's actually the best damage shield you can cast on a sub 40 so it's really good for powerlevels you end up saving a lot of mana.

Sneak on the other end is more useful than most people think, you can almost do any turn in no matter your faction, you screwed up and got kos with a faction needed for your epic? No problem just sneak behind the npc and suddenly you're indifferent the faction is repaired.
It's also nice to be able to use any vendor anywhere, sure you can port somewhere else where you are factioned but then unless you're bind nearby you have to run back. I definitely used the vendors in OT and outside cabilis a few times.

[Stourne]

Lmao I think I'm karanian human druid...

[Stourne]

Well I'm Tunare. Either way; I decided I will be sticking with Tunare Human as it's what makes me feel bad ass(I love me some RPg). I've enjoyed this experience/lesson. Every step in EverQuest seems to be a treacherous one! Thanks guys.

[Ravager]

Mines halfling, I couldn't care less about the root necklace it's probably as useful as those snare clickies wich I never use.

The gloves on the other side I regret not having them it's actually the best damage shield you can cast on a sub 40 so it's really good for powerlevels you end up saving a lot of mana.

Sneak on the other end is more useful than most people think, you can almost do any turn in no matter your faction, you screwed up and got kos with a faction needed for your epic? No problem just sneak behind the npc and suddenly you're indifferent the faction is repaired.
It's also nice to be able to use any vendor anywhere, sure you can port somewhere else where you are factioned but then unless you're bind nearby you have to run back. I definitely used the vendors in OT and outside cabilis a few times.


If you have hide you can do the same turn-ins as with sneak. You hit hide while the tradebox is open so it doesn't break.

[Ravager]

Well I'm Tunare. Either way; I decided I will be sticking with Tunare Human as it's what makes me feel bad ass(I love me some RPg). I've enjoyed this experience/lesson. Every step in EverQuest seems to be a treacherous one! Thanks guys.
Human wins fashionquest for a druid. You can pretend to be a pure caster or a monk. As long as you have anon and some name that isn't treehuggery, you'll never be bothered for a sow or a port.

[EtherX]

Hard to tell from the Wiki and Googling, but it appears the Warden Symbol of Tunare (root neck) wasn't added until Velious? If so, something to consider if making a druid on Green.

[enjchanter]

So tunare humans cannot do the gloves quest ?

[bwe]

Hard to tell from the Wiki and Googling, but it appears the Warden Symbol of Tunare (root neck) wasn't added until Velious? If so, something to consider if making a druid on Green.

Yeah this is a big question

[Benanov]

If you have hide you can do the same turn-ins as with sneak. You hit hide while the tradebox is open so it doesn't break.

That requires the mob to not jump you - so it either has to be green if KOS/threateningly. Otherwise min faction becomes dubiously.

Sneak will get you an indifferent con regardless of starting con.

[loramin]

That requires the mob to not jump you - so it either has to be green if KOS/threateningly. Otherwise min faction becomes dubiously.

Sneak will get you an indifferent con regardless of starting con.

While this is true, it's only truly a blocker for see invis mobs. In theory Druids can camo themselves, walk behind a mob, start the trade, hide, and then break camo. This gives the same effect as sneak ... although of course they can't check if Hide succeeded or not while invis, which means a decent percentage of those attempts will result in the Druid having to gate out when invis breaks and they discover they weren't really hidden.

But for stuff like quest turn-ins that's not an insurmountable obstacle: you just try and gate a few times, and eventually hide works and you can pull it off. Sneak is clearly more convenient, but even Sneak isn't 100% either as sometimes mobs are positioned in a way where you can't sneak behind them.

Caveat: That's all theorycraft ... personally I just about never use Sneak/Hide except on my Rogue, even though I have two Halflings and a Ranger. Maybe my Halfling Cleric will when he gets to higher levels? (The other Halfling is a Druid.)

[Benanov]

In theory Druids can camo themselves, walk behind a mob, start the trade, hide, and then break camo.

I'm going to stop you here. This doesn't work, verified as a few days ago.

Handing in items to a mob breaks both Gather Shadows and Hide on my IKS SHD.

I'm factioning up by handing in 5gp to Guard Shilster in NK, who is Corrupt Qeynos Guards and I'm currently Threateningly.

I walk up, after casting Gather Shadows, to Shilster. He cons indifferent. I hand him 5gp.

Gather Shadows actually disappears from the buff list and I get the message about it wearing off (Your shadows fade.) Cons threateningly.

Re-casting gather shadows DOES work, however, and I can perform the turn-in and get another bottle of Blackburrow Stout.

So I hand him another 5gp, and Gather Shadows breaks again. This time I hide. Let's say it succeeds (it doesn't always, cap is 75 for SHD) and I con indifferent. I do the turn-in, and I get another bottle of Stout, and those sweet sweet faction hits.

I hand him another 5gp. Hide doesn't give a message that it's no longer working and the button is still depressed in the UI - but I go back from indifferent to threateningly.

You should be able to verify this with any char that has two sources of invis on any mob that takes a turn-in and cons something other than indifferent.


The only thing that might work? I believe a successful hide will break Gather Shadows, but if that's not the case you could invis, then hide, then hand in the items and see what happens.

If you have a method that you think will work, I'm game to hear what it is, and will test it with Trooper Mozo. I'm near Cabilis, and am ally to the troopers so I can replicate the test.

[loramin]

I'm going to stop you here. This doesn't work, verified as a few days ago.

Handing in items to a mob breaks both Gather Shadows and Hide on my IKS SHD.

I'm factioning up by handing in 5gp to Guard Shilster in NK, who is Corrupt Qeynos Guards and I'm currently Threateningly.

I walk up, after casting Gather Shadows, to Shilster. He cons indifferent. I hand him 5gp.

Gather Shadows actually disappears from the buff list and I get the message about it wearing off (Your shadows fade.) Cons threateningly.

Re-casting gather shadows DOES work, however, and I can perform the turn-in and get another bottle of Blackburrow Stout.

So I hand him another 5gp, and Gather Shadows breaks again. This time I hide. Let's say it succeeds (it doesn't always, cap is 75 for SHD) and I con indifferent. I do the turn-in, and I get another bottle of Stout, and those sweet sweet faction hits.

I hand him another 5gp. Hide doesn't give a message that it's no longer working and the button is still depressed in the UI - but I go back from indifferent to threateningly.

You should be able to verify this with any char that has two sources of invis on any mob that takes a turn-in and cons something other than indifferent.


The only thing that might work? I believe a successful hide will break Gather Shadows, but if that's not the case you could invis, then hide, then hand in the items and see what happens.

If you have a method that you think will work, I'm game to hear what it is, and will test it with Trooper Mozo. I'm near Cabilis, and am ally to the troopers so I can replicate the test.

Oh interesting ... maybe that sort of thing used to work, and they fixed it?

Everything I know on the topic is in http://wiki.project1999.com/Faction_Tricks, but that page is based on forum reports that may well be out of date.

[Jimjam]

That requires the mob to not jump you - so it either has to be green if KOS/threateningly. Otherwise min faction becomes dubiously.

Sneak will get you an indifferent con regardless of starting con.

Pull hand in mob to a corner, ensnare lock it, gate out.

Ensnare will stop it pathing back, so at this point you can just go back to the mob, open trade window from around the corner with 3rd person view, then try to activate hide for hand in.

[AegnorP99]

Sneak is a really useful skill if you know what you're doing. It may very well be worth giving up the root necklace and DS gloves for the ability to sneak of you're comparing to wood elves.

However, the ability to wear visible robes is worth far more than hide or sneak. Tunare worshipping human druid is your best bet.

[Cen]

I'm going to stop you here. This doesn't work, verified as a few days ago.

Handing in items to a mob breaks both Gather Shadows and Hide on my IKS SHD.

I'm factioning up by handing in 5gp to Guard Shilster in NK, who is Corrupt Qeynos Guards and I'm currently Threateningly.

I walk up, after casting Gather Shadows, to Shilster. He cons indifferent. I hand him 5gp.

Gather Shadows actually disappears from the buff list and I get the message about it wearing off (Your shadows fade.) Cons threateningly.

Re-casting gather shadows DOES work, however, and I can perform the turn-in and get another bottle of Blackburrow Stout.

So I hand him another 5gp, and Gather Shadows breaks again. This time I hide. Let's say it succeeds (it doesn't always, cap is 75 for SHD) and I con indifferent. I do the turn-in, and I get another bottle of Stout, and those sweet sweet faction hits.

I hand him another 5gp. Hide doesn't give a message that it's no longer working and the button is still depressed in the UI - but I go back from indifferent to threateningly.

You should be able to verify this with any char that has two sources of invis on any mob that takes a turn-in and cons something other than indifferent.


The only thing that might work? I believe a successful hide will break Gather Shadows, but if that's not the case you could invis, then hide, then hand in the items and see what happens.

If you have a method that you think will work, I'm game to hear what it is, and will test it with Trooper Mozo. I'm near Cabilis, and am ally to the troopers so I can replicate the test.

Yes, the way to use invis for indifferent turnins is to start the turn in, with the trade box open THEN you invis, then you accept it, which doesnt break invis and treats you as indif. Starting a trade while invis or hidden breaks them.

[Solist]

Tunare human druid.

Significantly enhanced endgame stats with PD robe being BiS.
Actually wears a robe when in Robe of the Spring.
By far the best velious custom helm.

Fashion is king. Roll a real class if you need sneak to matter much.

[Jimjam]

Significantly enhanced endgame stats with PD robe being BiS.
Actually wears a robe when in Robe of the Spring.

Why is everyone obsessed with wearing dresses?

(I'll admit on Druids, it might make sense... but for some reason every warrior, sk, ranger seems to want to too).

[Troxx]

Why is everyone obsessed with wearing dresses?

Tbh I’ve never understood this either.

[loramin]

Why is everyone obsessed with wearing dresses?

(I'll admit on Druids, it might make sense... but for some reason every warrior, sk, ranger seems to want to too).

https://i.imgur.com/lyMO3HR.gif

[GreldorEQ]

I cannot stress enough how much Sneak amplifies the adventuring spirit of the Druid class. It opens doors to quests and exploration that would otherwise be closed.

Not to mention, a bushy mustache > some dress.

I created this thread to identify the pros/cons of Sneak vs. root neck. Root neck in late velious is meh. Root neck in classic may have changed my mind.

[loramin]

I cannot stress enough how much Sneak amplifies the adventuring spirit of the Druid class. It opens doors to quests and exploration that would otherwise be closed.

Not to mention, a bushy mustache > some dress.

I created this thread to identify the pros/cons of Sneak vs. root neck. Root neck in late velious is meh. Root neck in classic may have changed my mind.

Honestly, I think it depends a lot on your playstyle. It seems self-evident to you that Sneak is valuable ... but like I said I've never really used Sneak on my 60 Halfling Druid in his entire lifetime. I'm not saying this to disagree with you that Sneak is useful, I'm just pointing out that what seems obvious to one person isn't to another.

We've got four pages in this thread, and all anyone has said explicitly about Sneak is that you can use it to vendor/bank places you normally couldn't, and you can do quests with bad faction. But those are super rare/minor use cases (especially for Druids who can port whenever they want, and who start with "good' faction no matter what race they pick).

So if you really want a good discussion, and you want to tease out what other people see as valuable about the root necklace ... maybe stop "stress enough how much Sneak amplifies the adventuring spirit" and instead actually [I]explain why you think Sneak is so useful.

[GreldorEQ]

Sneaking past mobs that see invis.

[loramin]

Sneaking past mobs that see invis.

Where specifically?

You can't sneak past the ones in Kael right? Those are the only ones that I find annoying personally, but I assume you have other spots in mind?

[Madbad]

Isnt there a see invis mob on the way down to bear pits?

[loramin]

Isnt there a see invis mob on the way down to bear pits?

Ooooh, you're right, there are several (potentially; it depends on the luck of the spawn I think) See Invis Ice Giants on the way.

However A) I don't know if you even can Sneak past them (I'm not sure they ever face away), and B) I know the old standard approach was just to train down, bind, then Egress out, so there wasn't a need to sneak.

But if it's possible, maybe some people sneak past instead? Anyone ever try that?

[GreldorEQ]

Bear pits, plate house, velks frenzy, seb king - it has kept me alive during wipes in tov, kael, icewell. It can literally be used in almost every zone frequented by a lvl 60 adventurer.

Anywhere you find a see invis mob, you can potentially use sneak to get around. The field of an effective sneak is much larger than 180 degrees.

This combined with indoor AE root and snare at 60 make crawling to specific camps possible. I've used it to get to a variety of places usually restricted to coth or drag or a slow, slow solo root/camp crawl.

[loramin]

It can literally be used in almost every zone frequented by a lvl 60 adventurer.

Literally (in the proper use of the word), yes: I can literally click my Sneak button in any zone :)

But practically useful? I think it's a bit hyperbolic to say that Sneak is practically useful in "almost every" (or even the majority) of zones. I'm happy to be convinced otherwise by specific examples though.

Anywhere you find a see invis mob, you can potentially use sneak to get around.
I was about to say this is a flat out lie: you can't sneak past (for instance) the See Invis guards in Kael, because they never look away. But, maybe you know something I don't ...

This combined with indoor AE root and snare at 60 make crawling to specific camps possible. I've used it to get to a variety of places usually restricted to coth or drag or a slow, slow solo root/camp crawl.

This is the heart of what I was hoping to see. When some asshole says "see, this thing is obviously awesome and everyone who says otherwise is a moron" ... I think: "that person is a moron" :)

But when someone says "I'm clever and I'm doing stuff you haven't thought of", then I think "I want to be clever too! Teach me!'

I honestly can't think of a way to combine root and Sneak to get past the See Invis guards in Kael, but I'd love to hear how. Please, let's hear more specifics about how you use Sneak in places that it's not obviously useful to do so (eg. Kael see invis) ... and less "Sneak is good everywhere, duh guys!"

[bwe]

Is Warden Symbol of Tunare classic (will it be on green)?

[Tecmos Deception]

you can't sneak past (for instance) the See Invis guards in Kael, because they never look away

Does sneak reduce aggro range, similar to a lull spell, when you're in the frontal 90 degrees? Or does it only make you treated as indifferent so long as you're in the rear 270 (except for a very things that ignore even sneak)?

[Daliant17447]

Can't halfling and wood elf druids just click their guise to show off their robe of the spring? Or can only humans equip it?

[Gustoo]

They can't equip it.

I have never been able to sneak to anywhere I wanted sneak to work. Specifically past the bats in LGUK

Can someone tell me one place where a halfling can sneak that you couldn't get to without aggro without sneak?

I have been looking since red 99 launch.

[DromalPhrenia]

They can't equip it.

I have never been able to sneak to anywhere I wanted sneak to work. Specifically past the bats in LGUK

Can someone tell me one place where a halfling can sneak that you couldn't get to without aggro without sneak?

I have been looking since red 99 launch.

You can sneak past the Wyverns in ToV. I know this because I did it as a halfling cleric.

[TheDudeAbides]

Human Druid

Karana (Lone Wolf Farmer)

Tunare is for pansies

Stache