The things Rogues actually do

[1asdfasdf1]

Hi all,

I do not have a rogue, and I'm wondering what do they actually do with their time in EQ. Here are my (mis)conceptions. Kindly educate me.


Stab stuff
Can't tank past level 20'ish, even with great gear (and then only maybe to level 50)
Literally assassinate level <=46 humanoids once they're level 60 (but can they loot those instakill corpses?)
Use some kind of auto-attack-off-then-hide hotbutton macro to lower their threat? (Does this work?)
Scout dungeons (and planes?)
Only 1 or 2 mobs in the whole game can see through their sneak+hide (lguk assassin?)
Drag corpses, except in Velious where somehow corpse dragging results in aggro
Acquire a 40% epic haste weapon relatively cheaply / easily compared to, say, the warrior or mage epics
Buy and sell from/to KOS merchants
Pickpocket NPCs during fights (which reduces loot flow to rest of group, right?)
Probably never use poisons because they're expensive garbage
Typically have to juggle, bard-style, a primary weapon with a backstab weapon
Explore most dungeons without fear!
Die alone if they're in trouble, like warriors, rangers, pallies, but unlike bards and FD classes.

[DinoTriz2]

Most of that stuff is true.

3) It might even be higher, I know I can Assassinate mobs in Seb. Also, you can loot them.

4) Yes, that macro works. Known as the Evade macro.

6) Nah, there's a lot more than that.

12) Eh, I guess if you have a really nice non-piercing weapon you could do this, but probably not worth it.

[stebbins99]

Do you guys get exp when you assassinate a mob? (provided it would normally yield exp if killed traditionally)

[Snaggles]

(disclaimer: 20 year old recollection)

You can certainly tank post-50 but there has to be a good reason for it. You have no way to pick up aggro besides procs but with a healer and a Locustlure I'd definitely toss the epic in the offhand and go to town if needed.

As far as I understand nothing in the game sees through sneak (any class, not just rogues) but you have to be behind them. The rogue's hide/sneak combo is really like a supercharged invis & invis to undead. Definitely more things see through it but it's really solid. Also I believe if you invis a rogue it's essentially the same effect. Before level 60 I used to pull corpses quickly with a cloudy potion in hate...so long as I didn't run into one of those damn loathing liches. If playing a rogue again I'd fill a backpack with those or some ring of shadows.

Poison making is a money pit but can be dang fun on occasion. I'd train it up to a moderate level. Bored people occasionally duel and the rogue doesn't fare well...muscle lock poison at least lets you panic people for a bit before they beat ya.

[1asdfasdf1]

Is http://wiki.project1999.com/Book_of_Souls one of those things that takes you past a bunch of see-through-sneak-hide mobs?

[DinoTriz2]

Is http://wiki.project1999.com/Book_of_Souls one of those things that takes you past a bunch of see-through-sneak-hide mobs?

Yes, although not all mobs in PoH see through hide, there are a couple that do.

I can't remember which ones do though.

[jolanar]

The main 'issue' with Rogue taking hits from mobs is their total lack of HP. Their defensive skill caps are actually pretty great.

[Cecily]

I mostly post on the forums. Right now I’m trying to teach myself magic though. One, ok two tiny little spells to change my appearance passed me out for 24 hours+ and I’m not sure if that’s a good thing or bad thing.

[Madbad]

Right now I’m trying to teach myself magic though.

How's that going for ya?

[Muggens]

I mostly post on the forums. Right now I’m trying to teach myself magic though. One, ok two tiny little spells to change my appearance passed me out for 24 hours+ and I’m not sure if that’s a good thing or bad thing.

Interesting stuff, I may have to stop by Off Topic again soon to check in on this =)
Be careful with magic tho!

[DinoTriz2]

I mostly post on the forums. Right now I’m trying to teach myself magic though. One, ok two tiny little spells to change my appearance passed me out for 24 hours+ and I’m not sure if that’s a good thing or bad thing.

Actual magic or pulling a rabbit out of a hat?

[DMN]

I remember rogues being banned in HK groups back in the day. in fact, rogues were often treated as black sheep due to peoples various beliefs about how PP worked.

And then there some real dumbasses who would ninjaloot items and say they were roleplaying their rogues. Didn't help their rep much.

[Muggens]

Yeah rogues back in classic times werent popular. Known as a very limited dps class with a rather poor actual dps! They had a crappy selection of weapons and if i remember correct their skills were lackluster as well. Verant had to show them some love. During the first year of EQ they were known as probably THE worst class of choice

[Muggens]

Actual magic or pulling a rabbit out of a hat?

I would stay away from magick with a K and magic the gathering (too expensive!)

[DMN]

Yeah rogues back in classic times werent popular. Known as a very limited dps class with a rather poor actual dps! They had a crappy selection of weapons and if i remember correct their skills were lackluster as well. Verant had to show them some love. During the first year of EQ they were known as probably THE worst class of choice

Mainly an itemization issue. And I think they added a minimum backstab damage amount. I think it was trident of the seven seas that they started to be seen as a solid class but that didn't show up until they itemized khedge. like 3-4 months after release I think?

[DinoTriz2]

I remember rogues being banned in HK groups back in the day. in fact, rogues were often treated as black sheep due to peoples various beliefs about how PP worked.

And then there some real dumbasses who would ninjaloot items and say they were roleplaying their rogues. Didn't help their rep much.

This still happens on Project 1999 as well.

Well, except for the banned part.

I was in a full HK goblin group and there was a Rogue nearby on the waiting list who just wanted to train his weapon skills on our mobs while he waited.

There were multiple pickpocket fail messages in chat and each time he gave the excuse that his finger slipped.

[Jimjam]

Evade was post release. They generated swing damage like a warrior, with the bonus aggro of backstab, but no way to dump aggro.

[1asdfasdf1]

Can a level 6 naked rogue go drag corpses through The Hole? Curious because if my friend hadn't gotten a surprise rez last night, I would have been dragging for her.

[Muggens]

Can a level 6 naked rogue go drag corpses through The Hole? Curious because if my friend hadn't gotten a surprise rez last night, I would have been dragging for her.

If you're a Brell Serillis worshipping one I think you could

[1asdfasdf1]

If you're a Brell Serillis worshipping one I think you could

Sounds like you are saying there are see-through-sneakHide mobs that are on that faction?

[DMN]

I thought corpse dragging aggro was based on the corpse being dragged's faction, not the dragger's faction.

[1asdfasdf1]

I thought corpse dragging aggro was based on the corpse being dragged's faction, not the dragger's faction.

That would be amazing! I hope that's the case.

Random_dragon_00: "Ah, one of our allies corpses is being dragged by invisible forces. Surely its ancestors are taking it for a proper burial. Let it be, friend. Stay your fiery wrath."
Random_dragon_01: "Nay, brother! That corpse is one of our enemies! See the baubles and markings! Burn it with fires, brother!"

*raar*

[DMN]

I don't even remember if the hole has drag aggro. But that's how drag aggro worked back in classic that I recall.

[Varren]

Hole has no drag aggro. Only see-hide that I know of is Master Yael himself. If you’re on Brell faction you don’t need to hide/sneak past the elementals and golems.

[rezzie]

I thought corpse dragging aggro was based on the corpse being dragged's faction, not the dragger's faction.

Kael, Skyshrine, Temple of Veeshan, and Thurgadin(/Icewell Keep) have drag aggro:

If you are non-KoS you can drag your own corpse with no aggro.
You cannot drag someone else's corpse, regardless of their faction.

Drag aggro only applies if the dragger is visible to a mob and within its aggro radius. You are safe to drag others corpses if:

you are out of line of sight (the corpse doesn't have to be);
you are invisible and no mobs within line of sight of you see invis;
you are a rogue with sneak/hide and no mobs within line of sight of you see through it;
you are a Feign Death class and are FD'd when you drag.

This means you can hide behind a wall and drag someone's corpse out from underneath a mob, even if you're both KoS, without getting drag aggro.

[Gozuk]

A Rogue's primary role is recognizing when it's time to hide and watch everybody else die around you. Don't be shy either, take it in and enjoy it. I like to stand and maybe /point or /laugh at people who are dying with no way out.

Always remember, you're the best and most important class. Without you your group/raid would probably wipe instantly. As a Rogue, you also have the added perk of being most likely to win a Fungi tunic 5 minutes after joining the group. Use these tools to your advantage.

[enjchanter]

A Rogue's primary role is recognizing when it's time to hide and watch everybody else die around you. Don't be shy either, take it in and enjoy it. I like to stand and maybe /point or /laugh at people who are dying with no way out.

Always remember, you're the best and most important class. Without you your group/raid would probably wipe instantly. As a Rogue, you also have the added perk of being most likely to win a Fungi tunic 5 minutes after joining the group. Use these tools to your advantage.

Always use pickpocket on Myconid Spore King to maximize dps

[1asdfasdf1]

A Rogue's primary role is recognizing when it's time to hide and watch everybody else die around you. Don't be shy either, take it in and enjoy it. I like to stand and maybe /point or /laugh at people who are dying with no way out.

Always remember, you're the best and most important class. Without you your group/raid would probably wipe instantly. As a Rogue, you also have the added perk of being most likely to win a Fungi tunic 5 minutes after joining the group. Use these tools to your advantage.

I can't tell how much of this is sarcasm or humor or good advice.

Will have to try the Evade thing on my massively powerful level 6 Rogue. Are you saying that in a group situation, Evade is as good as feign death? (But obviously useless soloing)

[1asdfasdf1]

Q: What is the evade skill I've heard about and why can't I train it?

A: Evasion is not a skill in the normal sense of the word, it's a trick that rogues can manage by using hide to lower their aggro in combat. A rogue simply exits combat and presses their hot-key for the Hide skill. Most rogues set up a hot-key macro to do this.

Evade does not completely remove aggro, and it does not work when soloing (see this thread).



nm

[Cecily]

I can't tell how much of this is sarcasm or humor or good advice.

Will have to try the Evade thing on my massively powerful level 6 Rogue. Are you saying that in a group situation, Evade is as good as feign death? (But obviously useless soloing)


Pretty legit post tbh. We're the main DPS in raids and surviving a situation due to being observant, by holding off from engaging an encounter and hiding instead, is both hilarious and really kind of important. You get to watch everyone around you die, but you're also in position to drag all the bodies immediately. You have to weigh whether you jumping in will prevent a wipe or if it's smarter to observe the subtle nuances of how man-sized frogs bludgeon your group mates to death, then drag them to the entrance.

[DinoTriz2]

Are you saying that in a group situation, Evade is as good as feign death? (But obviously useless soloing)

No, I wish :(

But at higher levels I'd say it has a success rate of 75% or so. It's pretty reliable.

At lower levels it barely feels like it works.

[Jimjam]

Cos play as warriors and plunder loot. "Never stop chopping".