Proposition to Improve Badain Sock

[Heebs13]

Can we agree that socking Badain, a 16 hour variance mob with no player agreement in place to prevent a FTE clickfest, is not enjoyable?

Can we come to some sort of player agreement to make it less miserable? Currently there are multiple other turn-in mobs like this that the playerbase has more or less universally agreed to /random on in order to make everyone's lives easier. Now, Badain has variance so it makes things slightly more complicated, but I'm confident that if people are willing, we can come up with something that works to alleviate the pain a bit. I propose one of two solutions:

Option 1:
Everyone poopsocks the spawn. When Badain spawns, everyone present will /random 1000 within 30 seconds. The winner has turn-in rights. Downside is everyone still needs to sit there and watch for the spawn, upside is it's a lot more fair than clickfest and allows a little less concentration than staring at your screen like a hawk.

Option 2:
Badain ToD is publicly available on the forums. At the exact start of his window (3 days - 8 hours or 64 hours after ToD), everyone present will /rand 1000 and the winner will have turn-in rights. Downside to this is an accurate timer must be publicly available, upside is only the winner has to poopsock and everyone else can go about their business.

With either option, a Badain that is up with no one present would be FFA. In the event of an earthquake, if option 2 was chosen and the winner was still present waiting to turn in, he does not lose his turn unless he opts to leave the camp.

Personally I would prefer Option 2 because it saves a lot of man hours for everyone involved, but I would accept Option 1 if the majority of posters prefer it. I am putting this up as a poll with 3 options, the third being to change nothing and leave things the way they are. At 12:01 AM EDT on May 15th, let's tally the results and consider that the winner.

Feel free to discuss in the comments.

[Oleris]

Leave it the way it is.

[Kazik]

Could you please stop trying to turn EverQuest into a stupid dice roll?

Have some self respect. You can do this.

[Daldaen]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242383

I remember rotating Ring Wars and not rolling or spam clicking to turn in.

[DromalPhrenia]

I vote against the proposal. Both proposals. All proposed changes. I VOTE NAY.

[aaezil]

Rotate dummies

[Heebs13]

Friendly reminder that Server Chat is not RnF, and if you want to insult and berate me over trying to propose a player agreement, perhaps the best way to go about it would be to make a corresponding RnF thread. I have no illusions that everyone is going to love this idea, but I want this thread to be for actual discussion and not for dick measuring.

Thanks!

[rezzie]

The difference with Badain is it requires a coordinated raid force of 40-60 people who can mobilise within 20-30 minutes.

It's not like the other rolls where you can solo or single group the content if you win.

That, plus it's not just for Ring 10. There's a bag full of items the encounter awards you. The other rolls are just for individual items.

Easiest no vote since Manasana applied to Aftermath.

[DiogenesThaDogg]

The difference with Badain is it requires a coordinated raid force of 40-60 people who can mobilise within 20-30 minutes.

It's not like the other rolls where you can solo or single group the content if you win.

That, plus it's not just for Ring 10. There's a bag full of items the encounter awards you. The other rolls are just for individual items.

Easiest no vote since Manasana applied to Aftermath.

Any schmo with ring 9 is capable of winning the Badain clickfest without having a raid force capable of taking down the ring war.

[Kayso2]

The problem with Option 1 is that it's not too different than the current system -- you're just arbitrarily replacing clicking with rolling. We're still all standing around.

The problem with Option 2 is that when you win the roll you have no idea if you'll have the force to kill Badain when he actually spawns unless you're in AM. Not sure AM loves the idea of starting a ring war at 4am, but it's reasonable to assume they could do so. I'm not that certain of any other guild or alliance.

There needs to be an option 3. Bring back the rotation.

The difference with Badain is it requires a coordinated raid force of 40-60 people who can mobilise within 20-30 minutes.

It's not like the other rolls where you can solo or single group the content if you win.

That, plus it's not just for Ring 10. There's a bag full of items the encounter awards you. The other rolls are just for individual items.

Easiest no vote since Manasana applied to Aftermath.

Back when you were in a casual leveling guild, ring wars were rotated. AM voted yes. I'm not sure if it was an easy vote, but it was a yes nonetheless. Why not now?

[Heebs13]

The problem with Option 1 is that it's not too different than the current system -- you're just arbitrarily replacing clicking with rolling. We're still all standing around.

The problem with Option 2 is that when you win the roll you have no idea if you'll have the force to kill Badain when he actually spawns unless you're in AM. Not sure AM loves the idea of starting a ring war at 4am, but it's reasonable to assume they could do so. I'm not that certain of any other guild or alliance.

There needs to be an option 3. Bring back the rotation.



Back when you were in a casual leveling guild, ring wars were rotated. AM voted yes. I'm not sure if it was an easy vote, but it was a yes nonetheless. Why not now?

Yeah I don't think option 1 is ideal but it seems like an improvement over what we have currently for the reasons I listed. As for your objection to option 2, it's a legitimate complaint and something that might have to be ironed out. If you can't muster a force on spawn, it could either be

A) you have 8 hours to trigger the event, else it becomes FFA

B) you have 20 minutes to trigger the event, else it becomes FFA

The first allows smaller guilds time for people to wake up. The second pretty much says you snooze you lose. I would be fine with either.

[icedwards]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242383

I remember rotating Ring Wars and not rolling or spam clicking to turn in.

Welcome back, sweet thing.

[Heebs13]

As for 'bring back a rotation', that has to be left up to the various guild leaders. My plan was to put this up to a vote and see what wins. So far looks like most people like the poopsock clickfest. If that wins I'll leave this to someone else to figure out.

[Erati]

The difference with Badain is it requires a coordinated raid force of 40-60 people who can mobilise within 20-30 minutes.

It's not like the other rolls where you can solo or single group the content if you win.

That, plus it's not just for Ring 10. There's a bag full of items the encounter awards you. The other rolls are just for individual items.

Easiest no vote since Manasana applied to Aftermath.

Require the winner of the roll to have a sufficient raid force present before starting.

Bedain spawns, rollers go, winner Batphones their guild (or friends)....maybe give 1 hour or 30 min max after roll that the gather time is up and award the turn in to the second highest roller or just allow FFA turn in at this point if the original winner cannot gather a force.

Is one way to handle this fake “barrier”.

[rezzie]

Back when you were in a casual leveling guild, ring wars were rotated. AM voted yes. I'm not sure if it was an easy vote, but it was a yes nonetheless. Why not now?

Twice you've brought up my history in a casual guild before I joined Aftermath. Not sure why that's relevant, or if you expected me to join the server and jump straight into a high end raid guild while still XPing on fire beetles?

To answer your question, the problem with rotations is everyone wants a slice of the free loot pie. When ring war was rotated before it was between 3 entities, so your turn came round soon enough.

This time would probably have AEGIS/AG/AM/BG/C/Kittens/PS all vying for a slot and it would take too long between individual slots to be worthwhile for most involved.

Does anyone enjoy a clickfest? No. Does anyone enjoy 16 hour variance? No. But EverQuest has always been tedious; sometimes you just have to suck it up, or find a game which you find more enjoyable.

[Erati]

Twice you've brought up my history in a casual guild before I joined Aftermath. Not sure why that's relevant, or if you expected me to join the server and jump straight into a high end raid guild while still XPing on fire beetles?

To answer your question, the problem with rotations is everyone wants a slice of the free loot pie. When ring war was rotated before it was between 3 entities, so your turn came round soon enough.

This time would probably have AEGIS/AG/AM/BG/C/Kittens/PS all vying for a slot and it would take too long between individual slots to be worthwhile for most involved.

Does anyone enjoy a clickfest? No. Does anyone enjoy 16 hour variance? No. But EverQuest has always been tedious; sometimes you just have to suck it up, or find a game which you find more enjoyable.


Two of those guilds on your list are becoming 1 and if Kittens/BG shared we re looking at only 5 slots which really isnt that crazy considering we’re in year 4 of Velious when we had a 3 slot rotation crafted during year 1.

If Bedain had his variance lowered to say 8 hours or even like 4, then it would be more workable while still keeping it FFA as its hard to keep a raid force on call for 16 hours.

[Kayso2]

Twice you've brought up my history in a casual guild before I joined Aftermath. Not sure why that's relevant, or if you expected me to join the server and jump straight into a high end raid guild while still XPing on fire beetles?

Because you post with such condescension to the people in other guilds. Like some hobo who wins the lottery and two weeks later thinks he's a du Pont or a Rockefeller. Classless.

Two of those guilds on your list are becoming 1 and if Kittens/BG shared we re looking at only 5 slots which really isnt that crazy considering we’re in year 4 of Velious when we had a 3 slot rotation crafted during year 1.

Monrezz, I'll add to the above that maybe some of the other four (not AM) might be willing to go every other time or something. You never know until you talk to them. Or better yet, send someone who isn't so smug to talk to them.

[rezzie]

Because you post with such condescension to the people in other guilds.

Where?

Monrezz, I'll add to the above that maybe some of the other four (not AM) might be willing to go every other time or something. You never know until you talk to them.

Feel free to reach out to those other guilds yourself; AM is perfectly happy with the current system so we're not the ones pushing for change.

Or better yet, send someone who isn't so smug to talk to them.

This isn't RnF.

[Vallaen]

Hmm can we have another option so the people that dont win the roll wins something.

[planarity]

roll, rotation, anything is better than a clickfest.

Roll isn't a perfect solution, but some of these arguments against it ("have some self-respect [lol irony]", "this is multiple items, but others rolls are one item", etc.) are so bad that I couldn't have made them up if I wanted to.

Keep in mind the average forum user does not represent the playerbase as a whole. It's hard to combat the toxic, forum-obsessed crowd because they get in early and often to threads like this one.

[Kayso2]

Easiest no vote since Manasana applied to Aftermath.

You post with such condescension to the people in other guilds.

Where?

[Heebs13]

roll, rotation, anything is better than a clickfest.

Roll isn't a perfect solution, but some of these arguments against it ("have some self-respect [lol irony]", "this is multiple items, but others rolls are one item", etc.) are so bad that I couldn't have made them up if I wanted to.

Keep in mind the average forum user does not represent the playerbase as a whole. It's hard to combat the toxic, forum-obsessed crowd because they get in early and often to threads like this one.

Yeah I don't really know a better way to try to organize a player agreement than the forums since I was hoping this would reach the widest audience, but you're probably right that the forums tend to contain the most toxic individuals on the server so my odds were pretty low from the outset. There have been rolls for scout, ring 8, and both goblins, so maybe some day ring 10 will get some sort of similar treatment. One can hope, anyway.

[Vianna]

Why would anyone agree to any type of dice roll ? No offense OP but that is worse than rotating the Ring War. Worst idea I have heard.

[Kayso2]

Keep in mind the average forum user does not represent the playerbase as a whole. It's hard to combat the toxic, forum-obsessed crowd because they get in early and often to threads like this one.

I think he's right, Heebs. I think having your leadership bring this up in the guild leader Discord might get farther than a poll here, really. This isn't a player issue as much as it is a guild/raid issue.

[Heebs13]

Why would anyone agree to any type of dice roll ? No offense OP but that is worse than rotating the Ring War. Worst idea I have heard.

Why would anyone agree to a dice roll on scout, shady goblin, angry goblin, or ring 8?

[Vianna]

Why would anyone agree to a dice roll on scout, shady goblin, angry goblin, or ring 8?

Because those aren't for BiS items and doesn't take a guild to do. You are asking raiding entities to leave their chance for a BiS item up to a random dice roll. An entity could lose that 20 times in a row thanks to RNG.

[Heebs13]

Because those aren't for BiS items and doesn't take a guild to do. You are asking raiding entities to leave their chance for a BiS item up to a random dice roll.An entity could lose that 20 times in a row thanks to RNG.

You could lose it 20 times in a row to the clickfest, too. Unless you've got someone using autofire or something similar.

[Wonkie]

Could you please stop trying to turn EverQuest into a stupid dice roll?

Have some self respect. You can do this.

it's all dice rolls champ. cast a spell, roll a dice. click a tradeskill, roll them dice. turn on auto attack? lots & lots of dice rolls.

[Vianna]

You could lose it 20 times in a row to the clickfest, too. Unless you've got someone using autofire or something similar.

No not really. I've never seen one group win 20 hand ins a row. This idea is just a bad one sorry.

[Heebs13]

Because those aren't for BiS items and doesn't take a guild to do. You are asking raiding entities to leave their chance for a BiS item up to a random dice roll. An entity could lose that 20 times in a row thanks to RNG.

Also pardon the double post but angry and shady goblin lead to spirit wracked cord, which IS considered BiS, is it not?

[aaezil]

most people would vote for option 4 rotation but its not on there

[Wonkie]

Why would anyone agree to any type of dice roll ? No offense OP but that is worse than rotating the Ring War. Worst idea I have heard.

AM's position is that clickfest gives them a better chance of winning more often.

But the reality is it's goddamn awful for everyone.

[Vianna]

AM's position is that clickfest gives them a better chance of winning more often.

But the reality is it's goddamn awful for everyone.

False. AM is willing to do it more for BiS items no matter what the system is. But they didn't invent what the current system is.

[Heebs13]

most people would vote for option 4 rotation but its not on there

Rotation would be fine but that's 100% up to the leaders of the guilds. We could all agree 'yeah a rotation would be fuckin sweet' but unless the guild leaders come to an agreement it wouldn't mean much.

[Wonkie]

False. AM is willing to do it more for BiS items no matter what the system is. But they didn't invent what the current system is.

the system is whatever players say it is

you have a lot to learn about democracy, my good chum

[Vianna]

the system is whatever players say it is

you have a lot to learn about democracy, my good chum

You have a lot to learn about MMO's. Trying not to get in an argument with the uninformed here. The system as it is wasn't created by one party.

[pogs4ever]

most people would vote for option 4 rotation but its not on there

[Wonkie]

You have a lot to learn about MMO's. Trying not to get in an argument with the uninformed here. The system as it is wasn't created by one party.

i know more than you :)

[baakss]

Rotation seems pretty legit in this case.

[branamil]

Enjoy the 6th month waiting list for your ring

[Daloon]

Awful in every way imaginable.

Lets see.. Gina triggers, Batphones, 30 seconds to tab over and react, 200 people on the spawn since no limit of guild representatives.. Yah totally won't be abused.

Rotations are fine and dandy, till people that have never/rarely ever competed for the mob wants the same piece of the pie that the top guild/guilds gets. E.g. AEGIS

[elwing]

What I propose is to randomly train mobs on the spawn point to punish people that fully autoclick afk by having them turn in to other random npc...

[Heebs13]

Awful in every way imaginable.

Lets see.. Gina triggers, Batphones, 30 seconds to tab over and react, 200 people on the spawn since no limit of guild representatives.. Yah totally won't be abused.

Rotations are fine and dandy, till people that have never/rarely ever competed for the mob wants the same piece of the pie that the top guild/guilds gets. E.g. AEGIS

Isn't everything you just listed also something that happens / can happen with the current system except for the 30 seconds to tab over and react?

[DromalPhrenia]

Isn't everything you just listed also something that happens / can happen with the current system except for the 30 seconds to tab over and react?
GINA triggers and batphones are both irrelevant in the current system, you need to react instantly. 200 people on the spawn also isn't currently an issue

The current system works fine, and I happen to know someone with far from ideal ping that wins the turn-in with some regularity. If anyone is suspicious of autofiring, I strongly suggest petitioning it, cheaters deserve to be banned.

[Heebs13]

200 people on the spawn also isn't currently an issue.

I'm assuming the '200 people on the spawn' is a gross exaggeration that would never actually occur. Under the current system there tend to be 'a lot' of people on the spawn. I've seen the very start of windows be maybe 4 people, but usually by the end of the window it's more like a dozen. I don't think giving people 30 seconds to react would somehow increase that number from 12 to 200, unless you think there are nearly 200 people that want rings but are simply being stopped by their inability to not alt-tab out to netflix. And that's largely what option 1 would do - allow people socking Dain to pay less attention so it's less miserable. Option 2 goes further and eliminates the poopsock entirely with the exception of the roll winner.

[aaezil]

Current server rules favor low ping in most situations. Needs fixing staff please and thank you.

[DromalPhrenia]

Current server rules favor low ping in most situations. Needs fixing staff please and thank you.

I specifically know someone with ping much worse than mine that is lightning fast at turn-in. The problem lies with you, not your ping.

[Vianna]

I honestly thought this idea might be a joke at first. Seems OP was serious.

[Capi]

Where do I line up for my ring 10?

[kotton05]

I vote you kill the bastard because he gives giant faction

[Heebs13]

I honestly thought this idea might be a joke at first. Seems OP was serious.

Start an RnF thread about it.

[Fragged]

Thank you CSG for submitting the petition (written by Awakened's leadership) complaining about having to ask Aftermath for a ToD when Aftermath forgot to pass the information on automatically... and thus breaking the server Ringwar rotation.

[Ripqozko]

Thank you CSG for submitting the petition (written by Awakened's leadership) complaining about having to ask Aftermath for a ToD when Aftermath forgot to pass the information on automatically... and thus breaking the server Ringwar rotation.

This, there would still be one if this didn't happen.

[Heebs13]

I find it very telling that one particular guild, and only that particular guild is very, very interested in trolling and flaming this post.

I'm interested in working out a solution. You're obviously not. Vote no and move on.

[rezzie]

A solution to what problem? Something you find inconvenient?

[Heebs13]

A solution to what problem? Something you find inconvenient?

Done responding to you or your guild mates. Have fun.

[branamil]

I find it VERY telling that you personally want a ring 10 and so want to enact a bureaucracy that will help you win your loot with minimal effort.

[DromalPhrenia]

There is no need for a solution, as there is no problem to solve.

I'm glad this thread was made, with a poll to tally the votes, to clarify this :)

[ajohnymous]

I find it VERY telling that you personally want a ring 10 and so want to enact a bureaucracy that will help you win your loot with minimal effort.

Is it so hard to believe that someone wants to have a discussion about trying to improve the raid scene? Even if that improvement is just a drop in the bucket?

[Zeebraboy]

AM members are the type of people that will challenge you to see who can watch paint dry for the longest period of time, and they would even be willing to shit themselves for the sake of competition.

[Phenyo]

no

I find it VERY telling that you personally want a ring 10 and so want to enact a bureaucracy that will help you win your loot with minimal effort.

[toasteroven]

Let's remove every aspect of competition while we're at it

In fact, I demand GM's provide me with a level 60 BiS character immediately

[Erati]

Let's remove every aspect of competition while we're at it

In fact, I demand GM's provide me with a level 60 BiS character immediately

Define competition.

[ajohnymous]

Let's remove every aspect of competition while we're at it

In fact, I demand GM's provide me with a level 60 BiS character immediately

Sitting in a chair for hours and hours and hours while destroying your eyes from staring daggers into a computer monitor is not a competition, that’s extremely unhealthy. It’s not unreasonable to change how we do things to something that doesn’t deteriorate your body.

[tylercanuck]

Sitting in a chair for hours and hours and hours while destroying your eyes from staring daggers into a computer monitor is not a competition, that’s extremely unhealthy. It’s not unreasonable to change how we do things to something that doesn’t deteriorate your body.

This is EverQuest. Find yourself a different game.

[Maliant]

Having done both Badain 16 hour sock with click-fest and Angry Goblin 8 hour sock with roll I prefer the Badain sock. Badain is also the only one of those I have won, I need to figure out a way to git gud at the Angry Goblin. WTB quake!

[ajohnymous]

This is EverQuest. Find yourself a different game.

No. I love this game. The game is what you make it so if you want to destroy your body in exchange for getting gear immediately instead of waiting then go right ahead.

[Xaeophi]

I voted keep things the same because.. 30 seconds is way too dam long and the other option i didnt read past the first three words.
People that rely on gina triggers should not be catered to.

[Fragged]

Thank you CSG for submitting the petition (written by Awakened's leadership) complaining about having to ask Aftermath for a ToD when Aftermath forgot to pass the information on automatically... and thus breaking the server Ringwar rotation.

Bump.