Should Manastone (and such) drop on Green?

[Izmael]

Should the legacy / nerfed items such as Manastone, Locket, Beads drop on the upcoming Green server, if it's destined to be merged with Blue after a while?

Or should the items never drop on Green to start with?

[honeybee12874]

I voted yes, but my vote was influenced by my hope that Green doesn't merge with Blue.

(No idea how those logistics would work at all, but the idea of the merge just doesn't seem right to me.)

[Spacebar]

I think those items should definitely drop on Green. But it would be cool if they made them No Trade, etc from items coming from Green once they hit Blue, if that makes sense. I think it would prevent a lot of the people from just hoarding manastones and such to try to sell on Blue later and would thus make Green a more enjoyable experience for a lot of people.

[maskedmelon]

I think those items should drop per the timeline and don't see why they won't given the team's express intent of recreating classic Everquest.

I would think though that excessive farming of those items would ultimately drive the price down on blue if green is to dump into blue.

[loramin]

If we had a classic Play Nice Policy then I would be 100% in favor of these classic items. But we don't, and we can't, because we don't have paid GMs.

As a result, all of these camps are going to be a nightmare, bringing out the absolute worst in people, and I think the server would be better off without them ... though if I were a betting man I'd bet on the staff leaving them in, for the same reason melon mentioned.

[baakss]

I think those items should drop per the timeline and don't see why they won't given the team's express intent of recreating classic Everquest.

I would think though that excessive farming of those items would ultimately drive the price down on blue if green is to dump into blue.

In classic Everquest, people didn't know the items were getting nerfed ahead of time. You can't really recreate it because everything is immediately perma-camped based on knowledge of future events.

Anyway, if you're going to include Manastone in this vote, are we including Circlet of Shadow? That'd really bone Necros.

[maskedmelon]

In classic Everquest, people didn't know the items were getting nerfed ahead of time. You can't really recreate it because everything is immediately perma-camped based on knowledge of future events.

Anyway, if you're going to include Manastone in this vote, are we including Circlet of Shadow? That'd really bone Necros.

I'd view recreating the server as the first, but also most important step in recreating the experience. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of tweaks to that end, following a clean run of green. Personally, I think it'd be neat to see a subsequent green launch with things scrambled like was done with The Legend if Zelda on the original NES (I.e. Move around dungeons, npcs, items, etc.). There are lots of possibilities once recreation of a classic server is complete.

On the CoS, yes, I would expect that to drop as well and don't see how that will bone necroes. If anything there would be many more CoS available. Not long after velious dropped, pre-nerf CoS was a 2k'ish item.

[baakss]

On the CoS, yes, I would expect that to drop as well and don't see how that will bone necroes. If anything there would be many more CoS available. Not long after velious dropped, pre-nerf CoS was a 2k'ish item.

Sorry, that question was directed at the OP. The question is if we're not dropping "nerfed" items with that plan, would CoS be included in that list?

[baakss]

I wouldn't rule out the possibility of tweaks to that end, following a clean run of green. Personally, I think it'd be neat to see a subsequent green launch with things scrambled like was done with The Legend if Zelda on the original NES (I.e. Move around dungeons, npcs, items, etc.). There are lots of possibilities once recreation of a classic server is complete.

This is an awesome idea. You could even change up some things mechanically to make people guess again on how stuff actually works.

[FatherSioux]

I bet the toxicity is not as bad as we think. P99 has been maturing well, scout roll, TOV changes. My prediction is it will be toxic initially but the insanity will subside after a while.

[Squabbles123]

Should the legacy / nerfed items such as Manastone, Locket, Beads drop on the upcoming Green server, if it's destined to be merged with Blue after a while?

Or should the items never drop on Green to start with?


Yes it should drop, and green should NEVER be merged with Blue.

[loramin]

I bet the toxicity is not as bad as we think. P99 has been maturing well, scout roll, TOV changes. My prediction is it will be toxic initially but the insanity will subside after a while.

The rolls only happened because the alternative (a clickfest) is objectively worse to everyone (except cheaters and people with insanely good connections).

The ToV changes only happened because GM Braknar threw himself on his sword, and in the larger perspective they only happened because the players were creating so much misery with their neckbearding in ToV that the staff had to make changes ... not for the player base, but for the staff (read Braknar's logs if you have any delusion that the changes were made for the player base).

So no I don't see either of those as in any way indicating that individual camps for prized items will have any sanity whatsoever. If anything ToV suggests the opposite.

P.S. IMHO the only way to bring sanity to these camps on Green (and sanity in general to contested camps) is to change to the rules. We can blame the players all we want, but humans in systems will always act certain ways.

The current rules all but make players act the way they do. But you can't change how human beings work: players will always want pixels, and they will always do whatever they can to get them in the system the GMs create. You can only change the system, and then rely on that to change behavior.

[FatherSioux]

Weird Loramin isn’t happy with the progress the server has made. Despite your thoughts on why, they happened. I call that progress.

[honeybee12874]

Yes it should drop, and green should NEVER be merged with Blue.

Of course the question is, what should happen to those characters on Green when the server resets?

I'm with you though - I don't like the idea of those characters merging into Blue. It kind of feels like it would be putting a square peg into a round hole, if you know what I mean? :confused:

I'm curious to hear more details on how exactly this will work...

[FatherSioux]

Maybe instead of merging with blue they could create a new blue for these recycled servers to merge into. So green hits end of life and it gets turned into the “Nexus”. Green 2.0 opens at classic and at its end merges with the nexus. Green 3.0...4.0 etc.

[maskedmelon]

I'm disinclined to believe green will be all that toxic. Staff just added 6 new guides in prep for green, one of whom has already demonstrated he's a cowboy ;). By the time green launches, they'll've a solid 6mo+ under their belt and I don't expect them to put up with much shenninigans. ToV changes demonstrate that the team will tweak the classic paradigm as necessary, but the goal remains the same. I fully expect the wrath of staff if asshattery gets out of hand though^^

[Sizar]

If we had a classic Play Nice Policy then I would be 100% in favor of these classic items. But we don't, and we can't, because we don't have paid GMs.

As a result, all of these camps are going to be a nightmare, bringing out the absolute worst in people, and I think the server would be better off without them ... though if I were a betting man I'd bet on the staff leaving them in, for the same reason melon mentioned.

This. Super bad idea to have these items available. GM's don't have the time to mediate the disputes that will happen the second someone is high enough level to hold down one of these camps solo or with a group. For those of us on Blue who do not have any of these items sure it would be sweet, but overall this is what Green is going to be about more than anything, and it will be too toxic.

[loramin]

Weird Loramin isn’t happy with the progress the server has made. Despite your thoughts on why, they happened. I call that progress.

I never said that. Of course I'm happy with the progress "the server" has made on things like rolls.

What I'm saying is, "the server" is not a thing: it's a composition of thousands of players and a few GMs, and those are all people. NOTHING about the two things you mentioned in any way suggests that the people involved will behave any differently.

Again, if anything it suggests the exact opposite. ToV was only changed (unclassically I might add) because the players were behaving so badly that the staff couldn't handle all of the drama. Again, if you don't believe me, go read Braknar's logs on Reddit.

So feel free to keep telling yourself that because the players made the staff so miserable in ToV that they were forced to abandon the core project goal (classic EQ), that it somehow indicates "progress", and that people will be nice to each other on Green.

But I maintain that it's insane to keep doing the same thing and expect different results. The only thing that will change player behavior (on Green or anywhere else) is a change to the system ... ie. a rules change. And the only hope of that that we've seen isn't the things you mentioned: it's what Melon just mentioned (the hiring of new guides) ... which absolutely is a rules change (eg. the rule on names went from being a non-rule to actually being a rule .. or at least half of one, as it seems like half of it is being enforced now).

[Fammaden]

No, these are for the most part items that were changed or removed because the original devs recognized they shouldn't have existed in that form. If they'd known better from the beginning the items never would have dropped in the first place.

P99 has a chance to know better from the beginning, but I suspect they will stick with this idea of following the timeline.

I don't see any reason to follow the nerf schedule so strictly while also taking the stance that changes like bard and chardok ae target limits should be active day one.

[honeybee12874]

Maybe instead of merging with blue they could create a new blue for these recycled servers to merge into. So green hits end of life and it gets turned into the “Nexus”. Green 2.0 opens at classic and at its end merges with the nexus. Green 3.0...4.0 etc.

I had this same exact thought myself, glad to hear someone else mention it. I think this would be a great idea.

[exqcme]

Drops it and don't merge with blue.

[kjs86z]

Drops it and don't merge with blue.

This exactly. Is the only logical solution.

Merging w/ blue sounds like a horrible idea.

[destrozi]

Manastone, etc existed in the classic timeline, thus it will exist on green. Even if this poll turned out to be 100% against them existing on green, Rogean is trying to create an accurate classic everquest server, your opinion doesn't matter.

[DMN]

I think some of these items should just be made no drop.

[aaezil]

Classic everquest

Move to resolved

[DMN]

Classic everquest

Move to resolved

Duping items was also classic everquest.

[Fammaden]

Duping items was also classic everquest.

So were a lot of things no one is asking to see return to P99. Nightblindness, book medding, full screen UI, no windowed mode, lack of mouse wheel camera scroll. We accept the lack of these things as part of P99 because the experience is close enough and because it adds to the game in a way that probably should have always been possible.

The ability to experience a simulacrum of classic everquest will still exist if the guise/MS etc nerfs are retroactive. The people who want to enjoy a classic server will be able to do so without them.

The only players really affected much by it will be pixel crazed fiends unable to get a fix of power, profit, and monopolizing content. Helping to reduce the possibility for toxic anti-social behavior over camps because of an arbitrary nerf timeline should be a greater goal than blindly following the classic era patch schedule.

There would be plenty of other high value items to camp anyway. I'd be much more concerned about availability of FBSS for melee than manastones or guises, but at least we know that FBSS will exist forever and while it might be on permafarm it won't be the same mad rush to get as many as possible into the fewest amount of greedy hands while the inevitable clock is ticking.

[FatherSioux]

I never said that. Of course I'm happy with the progress "the server" has made on things like rolls.

What I'm saying is, "the server" is not a thing: it's a composition of thousands of players and a few GMs, and those are all people.

It’s called a change in culture and it takes time. Give credit to the culture for shunning the status quo. Braknar is part of the culture.

[Keza]

Of course it should drop. If it didn't what is even the point of playing? May as well make AK47s and rocket launchers drop if you're going to remove classic loot just because you think someone camping something is going to impact your life in any meaningful way.

As I said in another thread, I gave away in /ooc a guise during the Kunark launch event in Toxxulia. No one knows it happened. No one cares. I have no idea who - if anyone - looted it or if it simply rotted and it's made no impact in anyone's entire life even if someone did loot it. THAT is how important these special items you people claim with no basis other than your own prejudice and selfish desires are going to ruin green are to the universe. Not at all. Not special at all.

Also for anyone considering blue's lifespan (postmortem) and post-green (after assimilation) well.. you're delusional and wasting whatever brainpower you might have. When green launches blue is officially dead. Just like red was after a few days. Your pixels will effectively be worth less than dogshit when green launches, and likewise when green assimilates all our pixels are trash. Enjoy the experience, not the grind.

[DMN]

The only players really affected much by it will be pixel crazed fiends unable to get a fix of power, profit, and monopolizing content. Helping to reduce the possibility for toxic anti-social behavior over camps because of an arbitrary nerf timeline should be a greater goal than blindly following the classic era patch schedule.


I'm sure there are a plenty of "normal"/decent people who missed out on a lot of these things the first time around in EQ, and the second time around on P99.

[Fammaden]

I'm sure there are a plenty of "normal"/decent people who missed out on a lot of these things the first time around in EQ, and the second time around on P99.

And their play wasn't affected, and continues to be unaffected, except for some nagging feeling of fear of missing out in their hindbrains. The only experience it removes is of hogging a camp and attempting to control an artificially inflated aspect of the economy due to foreknowledge of an item's nerf. And doing so in the most vital hub of xp and loot in the pre-planar classic late game, for no reason other than that's how long it took the original devs to finally say enough-is-enough and put an end to it.

Lguk is going to be enough of a shitshow already without a completely artificial motivation for people to go full lord of the flies over a vanity mask and a caster item that is rendered largely irrelevant by the planes and expansions.

[Cen]

I feel like its most classic to have the nerfed state of everything as it ends in velious from the beginning. It will be less classic for those unnerfed items to be known to get nerfed ahead of time changing all the players behavior in a non classic way. If everything has the stats it gets at end of velious everyone plays the game normally lol

[DMN]

Also for anyone considering blue's lifespan (postmortem) and post-green (after assimilation) well.. you're delusional and wasting whatever brainpower you might have. When green launches blue is officially dead. Just like red was after a few days. Your pixels will effectively be worth less than dogshit when green launches, and likewise when green assimilates all our pixels are trash. Enjoy the experience, not the grind.

Don't bet on it. I bet within a couple months when the novelty wears off, that blue has a higher prime time pop than green.

[DMN]

And their play wasn't affected, and continues to be unaffected, except for some nagging feeling of fear of missing out in their hindbrains. The only experience it removes is of hogging a camp and attempting to control an artificially inflated aspect of the economy due to foreknowledge of an item's nerf. And doing so in the most vital hub of xp and loot in the pre-planar classic late game, for no reason other than that's how long it took the original devs to finally say enough-is-enough and put an end to it.

Lguk is going to be enough of a shitshow already without a completely artificial motivation for people to go full lord of the flies over a vanity mask and a caster item that is rendered largely irrelevant by the planes and expansions.

What dipshitery is this? Of course removing items that someone never had the opportunit /experience of having is going to affect their play.

[Fammaden]

Don't bet on it. I bet within a couple months and the novelty wears off blue has a higher prime time pop than green.

Now that we know they plan to introduce custom content to blue at the same time as launching green I'd say its far more likely that green ends up as more of a niche server than it is that blue would be abandoned. The other likely scenario to me is that there will be a near even population split, which may just be a good thing for blue anyway.

People have LOTS of sunk time in blue, and many will be reluctant to give it up for the chance to get beat down by blue cons repeatedly and have nothing at all on a new server. You have to really want this experience to deal with all the shit the game is going to throw at you. All the resses, buffs, and gear people are used to leveling with are a year plus away. Raiding is a massive clusterfuck with no C2, no clicks, no 96% at all, and the planes being incredibly unforgiving and expensive corpse runs on top of it all.

[Fammaden]

What dipshitery is this? Of course removing items that someone never had the opportunit /experience of having is going to affect their play.

Yeah? What would you have done with a guise and a manastone that you've otherwise been unable to achieve?

[waffel]

Manastone, etc existed in the classic timeline, thus it will exist on green.

350 pings and server issues were classic, too. Will green have those to preserve the sanctity of ‘classic’?

[Worry]

Yes, but never nerf them.

[Muggens]

Now that we know they plan to introduce custom content to blue at the same time as launching green I'd say its far more likely that green ends up as more of a niche server than it is that blue would be abandoned. The other likely scenario to me is that there will be a near even population split, which may just be a good thing for blue anyway.

People have LOTS of sunk time in blue, and many will be reluctant to give it up for the chance to get beat down by blue cons repeatedly and have nothing at all on a new server. You have to really want this experience to deal with all the shit the game is going to throw at you. All the resses, buffs, and gear people are used to leveling with are a year plus away. Raiding is a massive clusterfuck with no C2, no clicks, no 96% at all, and the planes being incredibly unforgiving and expensive corpse runs on top of it all.

Custom content for blue is confirmed?

[kaizersoze]

the items were removed or nerfed for a reason. Leave them out.

[DMN]

Yeah? What would you have done with a guise and a manastone that you've otherwise been unable to achieve?

I'll take "things you use" for 100, alex.

[Karok]

Just make it lore at the least better is account bound, yes not classic but seafuries aren’t classic due to staff headaches and mana stone will be them x 10

[ZiggyTheMuss]

At what point in the timeline do seafuries get nerfed? Or maybe it’s just right out of the gate this time?

[Jimjam]

Just make it lore at the least better is account bound, yes not classic but seafuries aren’t classic due to staff headaches and mana stone will be them x 10

Fake news.

Seafuries were unclassic. Evidence was presented for what their classic drop rates were and they got fixed appropriately.

Green will surely have the fixed/classic sea furies, not the rediculous and broken loot dispenser that inflated blue/red plat for so many years.

[Kavious]

All the things should drop on Green

Only things that still drop on Blue should be transferred over

[Jimjam]

All the things should drop on Green

Only things that still drop on Blue should be transferred over

This works!

[wtsgoodtime]

I think those items should definitely drop on Green. But it would be cool if they made them No Trade, etc from items coming from Green once they hit Blue, if that makes sense. I think it would prevent a lot of the people from just hoarding manastones and such to try to sell on Blue later and would thus make Green a more enjoyable experience for a lot of people.

great idea! I may go a step further and make them no drop immediately. It'll prevent people from squatting on the camp for months.

[exqcme]

great idea! I may go a step further and make them no drop immediately. It'll prevent people from squatting on the camp for months.

most people will response.. "that's not classic" sadly =_=

[Karok]

Fake news.

Seafuries were unclassic. Evidence was presented for what their classic drop rates were and they got fixed appropriately.

Green will surely have the fixed/classic sea furies, not the rediculous and broken loot dispenser that inflated blue/red plat for so many years.

Here is a portion of the 7-14-2017 patch notes
Telin: Corrected Butcherblock Bandit appearances and added Margyl Darklin to her classic path.
Telin: Added aggro/death messages to Zarchoomi, Brock Brawlbottom, Cargo Clockwork, Driver Bryggin, Blixkin, Ember, rogue clockwork, runaway clockwork, Anderia, Tukk, Minda, Rongol, Olunea Miltin, guards in East/West Freeport, and Kobolds in Steamfont.
Telin: A few Guards in Butcherblock Mountains have changed their posts and will now have above average magic resistance. Guard Mandin now spawns again.
Telin: Added multiquest ability to the Bug Collection quest in Misty Thicket and The Painting quest in East Freeport.
Telin: Deputy Eigon and Poolt in Misty Thicket now share the same post.
Telin: Driver Bryggin now only spawns when Cargo Clockwork is killed.
Telin: The Freeport Militia now patrol more areas of East Freeport.
Telin: Removed non-classic fletching vendors from North Freeport.
Telin: Added kite shields to the Freeport Militia.
Telin: Guard Brendyl now patrols more of the path in North Ro.
Telin: Seafury Cyclopes will drop gems less often.
Telin: Added missing dialogue to the McMannus clan in West Karana and Holana Oleary in Halas.

It literally says which items were corrected or added. Also makes a plain statement seafury Cyclopes will drop gems less often. No statement of unclassic correction or change.

My original statement stands, prior to this change seafury island was really petition island. I would include changes to Tov and others if I cared to further research this. Make mana stones lore at the least, no drop/account bound would be better. Without those changes 5-6 people will occupy the camp for its entire duration and bag thousands? Of manastones.
Using Alinsky tactics on a msg board is comical.

[Misek84]

To all those saying green will be toxic, a shitshow, <insert doomsday comment here>, etc., all i have to say is that the only people who will have a toxic experience are the drama queens yelling that green will be toxic, a shitshow, <insert doomsday comment here>, etc. For the rest of us, we will go on with our EQ lives trying to work stuff out with our follow players. There will be the occasional drama flare up but it will be the exception not the rule. However, the forums would make it seem like its a shitshow cause the few drama queens discussed above will be posting nonstop about people stealing their orc pawns while invoking lawyerquest rules.

[Tecmos Deception]

No votes probably want green to have instanced dungeons too.

GTFO of here, ya fucks.

[destrozi]

No votes probably want green to have instanced dungeons too.

GTFO of here, ya fucks.

Instanced with no corpse runs and /pick. Good thing they don't run this server :eek:

[loramin]

All the things should drop on Green

Only things that still drop on Blue should be transferred over

I like this, but not at all because I care about Blue.

Anyone who is worried about Blue getting a few more guises or mana stones is worrying over nothing IMHO. Blue will be a great server with 500 mana stones or 1500 manastones; the only difference it will make is the price of a manastone, and my enjoyment of the server isn't impacted by the price of a manastone (remember, the server had seven years of Circlets of Shadows and VP loot and such; worrying about Blue's environment not being classic is dumb).

But where this will make a dramatic difference is on Green. If it's possible to bring manastones and such over to Blue from Green, all of those camps on Green will be full of Blue farmers. Everyone will do them not because they want them on their Green character, but because they want them for their Blue character.

Even if the items never leave Green those camps are still going to be pretty toxic, but if they become farm points for Blue it's really going to get even uglier.

[Jimjam]

Agreed blue ruining green is a bigger issue than green ruining blue.

[Wonkie]

This serverpoll has never been about loot. It's been about denying your enemy of pixels

[Muggens]

Custom content for blue is confirmed?